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Vanderburgh County
Rezoning Board
November 19, 2001
 
The Vanderburgh County Rezoning Board
met in session this 19th day of November, 2001 at 7:20 p.m.
in Room 307 of the Civic Center Complex with President David Mosby presiding.
President Mosby: Call to order the
Vanderburgh County Rezoning Board meeting for November 19th.
We will go into the Rezoning agenda.
President Mosby: First, I need a motion
to approve the minutes.
Commissioner Mourdock: So moved.
Commissioner Fanello: Second.
President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second. So ordered.
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First Readings: VC-16-2001,
VC-17-2001, VC-18-2001
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President Mosby: First readings.
Commissioner Mourdock: We have three.
The first one I will move approval on first reading VC-16-2001. Petitioner
is Martin Woodward for 15515 North Posey Line Road, from Ag to C-4 with
a use and development commitment .
Commissioner Fanello: Second.
President Mosby: So ordered.
Commissioner Mourdock: Second, first,
the second also for first reading is VC-17-2001, Three I Properties LLC.
It's 600 East Boonville New-Harmony Road, requesting, and, Bev, this says
A and R-1 space C-4. Is that meaning Ag?
Beverly Behme: Ag.
Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, it looks
like it's a typo.
Beverly Behme: It's zoned both.
Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Okay,
then the request is from Ag and R-1 to C-4.
Commissioner Fanello: Second.
President Mosby: So ordered.
Commissioner Mourdock: And also on
first reading we have VC-18-2001, again petitioner, Three I Properties,
address is 601 East Boonville-New Harmony Road. The request is from Ag
to change to C-4.
Commissioner Fanello: Second.
President Mosby: So ordered.
Final Readings:
VC-14-2001, VC-15-2001, VC-9-2001,
VC-10-2001 & VC-13-2001
VC-14-2001: Petitioner, Eagle
Construction
3400 Wolf Bay Drive
Ag to R-1
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President Mosby: Final reading of
zonings. First we will have petition VC-14-2001, petitioner Eagle Construction
and Development, 3400 Wolf Bay Drive and the request is from Ag to R-1.
Is there somebody here representing Eagle Construction and Development?
Les Shively: I'm not, well, my name
is Les Shively. I'm not directly the representative for this one, but I
am for the one that comes after. They are both sort of together. These
are...Eagle Construction wanted it for a subdivision out in Mc Cutchanville
that has received primary plat approval. It's not been recorded yet. They
are requesting a change from Ag to R-1. Shane Clements is the developer.
Mr. Clements or his engineer is not here this evening, but both of us worked
together on this, so I will be more than happy to answer any questions.
I'm somewhat familiar with the particular request.
President Mosby: Are there any questions
by any member of the Commission?
Commissioner Mourdock: Is anyone here
to speak to the-
President Mosby: Anyone here to remonstrate
against 3400 Wolf Bay Drive? Any remonstrators? Seeing none. Chair will
entertain a motion.
Commissioner Fanello: Motion to approve.
Commissioner Mourdock: Second.
President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second. Roll call vote, I guess, on zonings. Commissioner Mourdock?
Commissioner Mourdock: Yes.
President Mosby: Commissioner Fanello?
Commissioner Fanello: Yes.
President Mosby: Commissioner Mosby,
yes. Three yes' and no nays. Petition passes.
VC-15-2001: Petitioner, Bridlewood
Development LLC
3630 W. Boonville-New Harmony
Road
Ag to R-1
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President Mosby: Next petition VC-15-2001,
petitioner, Bridlewood Development LLC, 3630 West Boonville-New Harmony
Road, request Ag to R-1.
Les Shively: Mr. President and members
of the Commission, this is a similar request. This is also for a plot of
ground that has received primary subdivision approval. We are simply seeking
to change classification to R-1. It's midly southeast of the property you
just rezoned a moment ago.
Commissioner Fanello: Motion to approve.
President Mosby: Are there any remonstrators
for petition 3630 West Boonville-New Harmony Road?
Commissioner Mourdock: And seeing
none, with the motion on the floor, I will second.
President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second. Commissioner Mourdock?
Commissioner Mourdock: Yes.
President Mosby: Commissioner Fanello?
Commissioner Fanello: Yes.
President Mosby: Commissioner Mosby,
yes. Three ayes, no nays. Petition is granted.
VC-9-2001 & VC-13-2001
Petitioner: Dan Buck Development
800 & 806 Schutte Road
Ag to C-4 with Use and Development
Commitment
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President Mosby: The next three, do
you want to do them together? Or separate?
Beverly Behme: Do you want to do the
motions together?
President Mosby: Well, that's what
I was just wondering. I would say we do that.
Beverly Behme: That would be-
President Mosby: It's C and E.
Beverly Behme: It would be-
President Mosby: C and D.
Beverly Behme: Yeah, right, and I
think he's prepared to (Inaudible)--
President Mosby: Okay. Is that alright
with you, Mark.
Marc Fine: Yes.
President Mosby: To do these together?
Right. Next we're going to hear petitions VC-9-2001 and VC-13-2001. The
petitioner being Dan Buck Development. The addresses being 800 and 806
Schutte Road. Request from Agricultural to C-4 with a use and development
commitment. Before we start, do you have a list of the people that want
to speak?
Commissioner Mourdock: Just so we
are all clear on the procedure. We're going to hear the two commercials
first-
President Mosby: Right.
Commissioner Mourdock: -and then vote?
Or hear the two commercials first and then the other one and then vote
on each of the three? Which are we doing?
President Mosby: I was under the impression
we would hear the two commercials, but we have to vote on them separately.
Commissioner Mourdock: We do have
to vote on them separately-
President Mosby: Okay.
Commissioner Mourdock: -I'm simply
saying, do we want to hear the two of them, and then vote on the two of
them, and then hear the other one? Or do we hear these two, and then the
third one and then vote on the three? We have to vote separately on three
issues?
President Mosby: Do you want to hear
all three together? Is that okay with you?
Marc Fine: Our preference would be
that we do the commercials, you vote on the two commercials, and then we
can talk about the residential after you talked about, after you've voted
on the commercials.
President Mosby: That's fine. I've
read the two commercials, so we'll do them first. I have a list in front
of me. Has everybody signed this that wants to speak? If so, I mean, I'm
going to go off of this list. I would call the names as I've got them here
in order. The only thing that I would ask is that we don't keep reiterating
the same info over and over. So, and I'm willing to let everybody speak,
but just so we don't keep getting the same thing. Mark, I'll let you go
first, then I'll take remonstrators, and then I'll give you a three or
four minute rebuttal.
Marc Fine: Members of the Commission,
my name is Marc Fine. I'm here on behalf of Dan Buck Development LLC. I'm
sorry, my partner, Krista Lockyear, is out of town and wasn't able to visit
this opportunity with you. As you may be aware as the staff field report
and the petition show, total rezoning with respect to a C-4 petition is
1.6 acres. It's divided into two parcels. One acre is established at the
north end, I'm sorry, the south end of the property, which is also adjacent
to the Expressway. There is 6/10 of an acre, which is at the northern end,
which is adjacent to the other one acre parcel. What we are asking for
today is for those to be rezoned as C-4. I think the important aspect of
what we're asking for is the use and development commitment that is a part
of our petition. This developer has taken great steps to provide what we
would consider to be a low level commercial usage. There's two story limits,
there's light limits, sound limits, billboard limits, size limits in all
respects. What we're trying to do is keep this as a relatively low level
commercial. As you'll hear later today, it is framed by some residential,
so that it will have as low an impact on the area as possible. As much
as we all believe that the corridor, being the Lloyd Expressway, is providing
a wonderful entrance and exit to our county, we have to be mindful of the
fact that USI is a growing force in our county. We need to keep in mind
what it will take to service the growth that will occur on the western
corridor. As much as we don't want to believe it, the Expressway itself,
it makes this property not rural. What we've tried to do is recognize that
it is commercial, and with as little intrusion as possible, again framing
it in a way that does not intrude upon the neighborhood in anyway that
we would believe to be objectionable. Dan Buck has solicited Brian Schoffman,
of Appraisal Consultants to obtain a highest and best use analysis, which
we all believe is integral to the analysis that has to occur today with
regard to this rezoning. The highest and best use analysis from Appraisal
Consultants confirms that the property's best use is a commercial property
or convenience store and gas station are considered to be appropriate and
within their highest and best uses. As Mr. Buck has reiterated with regard...to
the Area Plan Commission and to the others, he is committed to improving
this property along Schutte Road. I think it's important for the record
to reflect that the, if there is a traffic impact study, he anticipates
providing the infrastructure consistent with that traffic impact study.
He's already indicated that he plans to put in an additional lane along
Schutte Road for those improvements. He's already indicated that he plans,
at his expense, to put in a lift station to provide sewer for the area,
which certainly enhances the value for everyone there. I think this development
as a whole provides us with an opportunity where we can defray some of
the congestion that occurs at some of the other neighboring shopping centers
just to the east. It could allow you to alleviate a little bit of that
congestion just with regard to a small commercial building and a convenience
store and gas station. It's worthy of noting that if this commercial zoning
were truly objectionable, the Weber family who is selling this property,
will continue to live in the area. Again, we have framed this with a little
higher level density residential, and then the Weber family lives around
it. So, if they believed it was in any way objectionable or devaluing to
the area, they certainly wouldn't do that to themselves. With that I will
go ahead and rest and allow any other comments. Unless you have questions
for me at this time.
President Mosby: (Inaudible. Mike
not on.) Questions at this time? Okay, I'll go ahead and call these...I'm
sorry, my mike wasn't on. I'll go ahead and call these and we'll come back.
Gregg Baker.
Gregg Baker: Hi, Gregg Baker. I live
at the corner of Walling and Schutte. In response to staff writer, Herb
Marynell's, recent freeway bound article and some other factors, I would
like to respectfully suggest that the Vanderburgh County Commissioners
put the rezoning of the corner of Schutte Road and the Lloyd Expressway
on indefinite hold until the community can develop a plan that takes into
account the greater needs of the community. The article mentions the Lloyd
Expressway Study Advisory Committee and the Corradino Group meeting with
the community early next year to gather input on community needs. These
relative to overpasses on the Lloyd between Fulton Avenue and the University
of Southern Indiana. Why don't we put the Schutte rezoning on hold and
wait for their recommendations? Why don't we treat the Lloyd between Schutte
and USI like downtown? The Lloyd between USI and Fulton deserves it's own
master plan. Additionally 1,100 plus interested west siders voted, west
side voters have signed a petition against the kind of development that
is being proposed by Dan Buck, and yet the current process does not work
well at gathering their input. The results of this rezoning process are
akin to telling a child it cannot have anymore candy, only to give him...repeatedly
come back and ask for more until the parent finally gives in. Do we really
want to allow this sort of process to prevail? Don't you think we should
wait for the Corradino Group to give it's recommendations? Furthermore,
a new comprehensive plan for the development, for the development is in
process, but not yet finished. Should we look at those results before forging
blindly ahead? I hope I'm not off here, Catherine, but I think you made
some comments recently on Shively and Shoulders, Shively and Shoulders
that alluded to the idea that our community should develop appropriate
plans for county projects, and then execute those plans accordingly. Why
don't we do that for Schutte Road? That's my comments.
President Mosby: Any questions of
Gregg? John Strange.
John Strange: John Strange, 931 Mahrenholz
Drive. The lawyer sort of throwed me off there. He said that it's not rural.
If it's not rural, why is the tax structure different? Why don't we have
City Fire Department out there? Or City Police? Now I just brought that
up because that's what he just said, it's not rural. Another thing on this
commercial, why do you want to commercialize it? That's the only nice place
from Boehne Camp Road to USI that's got any looks to it at all. You go
by the grease alley up there, all you see is the top of the buildings.
All you see is air conditioners, some dumpsters. You never see the front
of it. And what does people coming into town, going to USI and places like
that think of a place like that. I mean, then they say that they have to
have that place out there commercial for a simple reason, if they don't
Mr. Buck cannot get his money out of it, and USI kids don't have no place
to go. USI's going to get up and leave. Now that's what the man said at
the other meeting. Another thing here (Inaudible) is that I would like
for Mr. Mourdock to read this out loud, if he will. It was in the paper
and I think everybody else in here (Inaudible. Comments made away from
the mike.)
Commissioner Mourdock: I'm...I don't
know that I've ever been asked to read from the newspaper, something into
the record.
John Strange: Well, I want you to
verify something. I'm just going to ask you a couple of questions when
you read it. I want the people that hasn't read it-
Commissioner Mourdock: Well, with
all respect to the news media as a whole, you are going to ask me a question
and then assume I-
John Strange: It's going to put you
in the hole, ain't it?
Commissioner Mourdock: No. Well, I
don't know. I don't know the question. It might.
John Strange: It's going to put you
in the hole and you know it.
Commissioner Mourdock: No, my response
to this is you're assuming that whatever is on this piece of paper is a
fact. With all respect to the news media-
John Strange: No. (Inaudible. Talking
over each other.)
Commissioner Mourdock: -(Inaudible.
Talking over each other.) If you want to ask me a question, if you want
to ask me a question, go ahead. I don't need to read this to answer any
questions.
John Strange: Well, I just want to
know, just ask if he's right? For the simple reason has he got the Republicans
in his pocket? Or does he pay them off to get it? Because he says right
there that when the Democrats get out, the Republicans are going to get
it in. Now you tell me something.
Commissioner Mourdock: Mr. Strange-
John Strange: That's what I want to
know.
Commissioner Mourdock: -Mr. Strange,
I have no idea where that, I mean, I've seen that quote. I know what you
are referring to. I have no idea where that or what that is based on. That's
all I can say, because I don't know where that comes from. There's been...Mr.
Buck and I have not had one syllable of discussion regarding this project.
So, if you are inferring that there is something that has been discussed,
I can tell you that you're flat, dead wrong.
John Strange: Well, I've talked to
many Republicans, and they are all upset about it.
Commissioner Mourdock: They are all
what?
John Strange: They are all upset about
it. They don't like what he said in the paper. If it's right or wrong,
they don't like it, and that's why I brought it up because the election
is coming up-
Commissioner Mourdock: Sure.
John Strange: -and they wanted me
to ask you that question. So I did.
Commissioner Mourdock: I will...sure,
and that question is slightly different. I will clarify it this way. I
think anyone in this community who judges Republicans on this side absolutely,
positively of every issue. Or Democrats are on this side absolutely, positively
of every issue, couldn't be more wrong. Because by and large the people
who are elected in this city and county look at what they view in their
own, in their own way of thinking, what they view in the long term interest
of the community far above the way they view their party loyalty, so.
John Strange: Well, I found that out
too, you know, they do what they want to and not what the people asked.
Thank you.
Commissioner Mourdock: Your welcome.
President Mosby: Thank you. Jim Seibert.
Jim Seibert: I would like to start
off by saying we feel this is a land use issue. We feel that a gas station,
a convenience store, and high density apartments, although I know we are
not talking about the residential part at this time, is an improper use
of this property. We need not consider this a low level issue as it's been
put. Our question is, is putting a gas station at this corner the highest
and best use for this property? Is this the best use for the community?
Does this meet the community goals? Is this the best use for the surrounding
land owners? We feel the answer to all these above questions is no. Just
because some appraisers come in here and said that a commercial development
there is the best use, that equates to me that that means that's the highest
profit margin for this piece of property, not necessarily the best use
for this property. We feel, and with the exception of the Weber's and Mr.
Buck, that no one in the community or the neighborhood will field any profit
from this development. Mr. Fine says that this area is more urban than
rural or residential. Well, I have to disagree with this. I live approximately
a half a mile south of this development, and I've hiked these woods many
times. We've had a naturalist walk this area starting here at this development
and going down this valley. They say that this area rivals Wesselman Woods
as an old growth area. That does not sound like an urban development to
me. This is not a political issue as Mr. Buck would like everyone to believe.
I do not know the political leanings of those seated behind me, nor do
I care. This is about residents of the west side that want to maintain
that which has kept us here all along as life long residents. We don't
want big, commercial zones, we are more rural in nature. We don't like
high traffic zones. We prefer residential in nature. We enjoy our trees
and our acreage around our properties. We like having acreage. We don't
like our lots being measured in feet. We like them being measured in acres.
We are not anti-development. We've been encouraging town hall meetings
to discuss comprehensive development of the west side of Evansville, including
the University, private and other public input. We would be willing to
meet with the Weber's and someone like the Purdue Land Use Team to develop
a land use that meets the neighbors concerns and returns an acceptable
return for the Weber's. The current Master Plan states that no commercial
development should be allowed beyond Boehne Camp Road. We feel that this
current Master Plan should be adhered to. This commercial, high residential
spot zoning is unnecessary. There are already 105 businesses less than
two miles from this proposed zoning. They include several large apartment
complexes and one condominium complex. The large, the one large apartment
complex has been recently completed in addition to those condominiums.
I find it hard to believe that market surveys would show a need for more
housing like this, when the current housing has yet to be filled. We have
five gas stations and convenience stores within three miles of this proposed
development. Nobody that I know that lives around this corner says that
we need another gas station and convenience store. We have plenty already.
We are concerned about the probable domino effect of adjacent properties.
Not only east along the Lloyd Expressway, but also south along Schutte
Road as well. We don't want this to be turned into a commercial corridor
all the way into the University. We need a plan for providing the appropriate
infrastructure before the development of any kind takes place. This includes
the roads. This includes the sanitation. This includes electric, everything
that goes with developing these type of properties. We, I have spoken personally
to people that have moved into the area from out of town that have said
one of the reasons they moved into Evansville is because they were tired
of this spot zoning taking place in their cities. They want a thought out
master plan to guide the development of this area. We think no rezoning
should take place without infrastructure commitments. Mr. Fine said that
Mr. Buck would put in a lift station. Well, he has no choice. He has to
put in a lift station, because his property would not handle a septic tank.
Ms. Lockyear at the Area Plan Commission stated Mr. Buck would develop
Schutte Road all the way to Clark Lane if the traffic study showed it was
warranted. This was not a firm commitment, but a statement that leaves
a lot of wiggle room for Mr. Buck. Infrastructure responsibilities are
both part of the county and state responsibilities. A comprehensive plan
must be developed and approved by both. Ms. Lockyear stated in front of
the Area Plan Commission that since there is a traffic control signal at
this intersection, that this means commercial was meant to be there. Well,
this light was put in to make this intersection safer. Anybody that lived
in this neighborhood before that light was put in there knows the traffic
problems we had when USI let out at different times of the day. This development
will put us right back to where we were before this traffic light was installed.
The intersection is inadequate for the traffic load it currently carries.
Yes, Mr. Buck is going to improve Schutte Road, but at the same time the
Lloyd Expressway has no turn lane if you are going in the eastbound direction
there. It's got a long turn coming southbound off of Schutte, off of the
Lloyd Expressway, but that is going to be inadequate with the additional
traffic that this development will bring. Traffic at the Schutte and Lloyd
will get worse with the commercial and high density residency. Buck's own
estimates are from anywhere from 100 to 1,100 additional cars a day just
from the residential portion of the development. I would suspect at least
double that from a commercial site. Traffic studies must be done during
peak times, during the school year to really determine what the impact
is going to be on this area. To date none of these traffic studies have
been presented to us as part of the planning for this development. This
will also complicate state plans to improve all of the Lloyd Expressway
interchanges between Fulton and Schutte Road. With this development taking
place right up into the Lloyd Expressway that will leave no room in the
future for an interchange to be placed there, which if rezoned, at a higher
cost for this interchange. It will probably have to end up buying out the
commercial development that is going on this corner. We think that we should
take the longer view. Make the appropriate plans now and follow them, but
not fix them later. We find it hard to believe that the long term community
development plans call for a gas station on every corner of the Lloyd Expressway.
As I've stated, there's other issues to consider other than the tax dollar
revenue that could be brought in from this development. There are quality
of life issues that must also be considered for this development. There's
the preservation of the unique terrain, trees, watershed and the geology
desirable for the USI, the City of Evansville and Vanderburgh County. There's
additional light pollution that will result in a lower ability to view
the nighttime sky. Those of us that live in the neighborhood that went
out to watch the meteor shower the other night realize how much trouble
we had seeing it just from USI and from the commercial development at Boehne
Camp. We're going to just increase the amount of light pollution caused
by this development. In addition there's going to be more noise pollution
resulting from this development and these gas stations being put on this
corner. Additionally there is going to be trash that will accumulate along
Schutte Road. If you don't believe me, ask the residents of Boehne Camp
how much the trash has increased on their road since the development was
put there at the corner of Boehne Camp and the Lloyd Expressway. The Schapker's
who live across the street from the proposed development, one of the neighbors,
feel they will be forced to move if this proceeds. They have lived in that
area longer than almost any of the other residents in the area. Why should
other people be allowed to profit at their expense. We have tried to talk
to Mr. Buck about some of the things that we would feel would make this
more palatable to the neighborhood. Actually, we have spoken to Ms. Lockyear
more than Mr. Buck. He stated that he rarely meets with neighbors more
than once, and he can never remember meeting with them more than twice,
like he met with us. Some of the things that we asked for; no commercial
development, set backs for a future interchange, berms or landscaping to
minimize the site encrosion, enclosures around the HVAC units, a possible
set back for the Pigeon Creek Greenway, maintaining some of the natural
terrain, a less number of residential units. As has been seen from Mr.
Buck's rezoning requests, none of these suggestions that we've made were
incorporated into the use and development commitments. In fact, they've
actually gotten worse. In closing we ask you to turn down the rezoning
requests for both the commercial development and the high density residential.
We ask that you do what is in the best interest of the community at large
and for the neighbors of Schutte Road. The Weber's can still make a nice
profit from this property with some other type of development. Mr. Buck
has stated in one of our meetings that he wished someone would build a
convenience store out near his house, so he wouldn't have to drive so far
to get milk. We say to you, Mr. Buck, why don't you build it out in your
neighborhood and keep it out of our neighborhood. Just because you can
make a good return on your investment doesn't justify changing the character
of our neighborhood.
President Mosby: Any questions? Bob
Doerr.
Bob Doerr: My name is Bob Doerr, I'm
Chief of Perry Township Fire Department. I don't have a bunch of papers
and that, but I just wanted to come and tell you what my opinion is on
this. As far as a life safety deal, that road, to me, is not capable of
handling, not only the road, but the lay of the land ain't capable of handling
that much more traffic. Because, for one thing, you're going to get that
much more traffic from USI as it develops. This, the entrance or exit,
whatever, where this comes out is in a valley. It's not a, to me, it's
not a very safe place. We make a whole bunch of runs to the Schutte Road
intersection right now, and the only one's we make is where people are
injured. The Sheriff's Department makes a whole bunch of wrecks there,
where there is no injuries. From our standpoint, we feel like that it's
not a safe place to build a development, even a residential single housing
development there would cause a problem, because, like I say, the lay of
the land. If you, you know, if anybody's not familiar with it, it sits
in a valley, and it's, you know, I don't feel like it's a safe place to
build anything like that. I think we'll have quite a few more accidents,
and stuff like that in that area. That's all I got to say. Thank you.
President Mosby: Thank you. Thank
you. Pat Conner.
Pat Conner: My name is Pat Conner.
I live on Felstead, and, you know, I have a vested interest on what's going
on here. I don't live on Schutte and I think the road that I live on is
kind of protected, but I am concerned about what's going on in the area
in general, in the county, and not just on the west side, but everywhere.
The Master Plan, the Comprehensive Plan that was developed from 1997 to
2015 covers a lot of the things that are being discussed here. I didn't
bring my notes because I honestly didn't think that this would even come
up. Because everything in the Master Plan directs this type of development
in previously established commercial zoned, commercially zoned areas. One
of the things it specifically states in Section Eight is that spot zoning
should be avoided at all costs. I think if you looked at the Master Plan,
in Section Eight, I think you'll find that there's, there's enough evidence
there that this zoning is bad zoning. It's spot zoning that goes against
the neighborhood element of commercial development, and I think you'll
find that a no vote is warranted. Thank you.
President Mosby: Thank you. Bob Hornbrook.
Bob Hornbrook: I pass, David. He said
it all.
President Mosby: Okay. Randy Brown.
Randy Brown: Randy Brown, a resident
of Vanderburgh County, and also a representative member of the Plumbers
and Steamfitters in Vanderburgh County. Naturally, anytime you talk about
construction, jobs are near and dear to our hearts. I also have family,
I live on the west side myself. I have other family members that live on
the west side in the very area where this development is being proposed.
I have a couple of different problems, one is, and I've been following
this, basically, through the newspaper as most of us have. I have a problem,
I guess, every time I read it in a newspaper there is always some different
proposal coming up and someone has a problem, I guess, of making up their
mind exactly what they want to build or can build. It troubles me when
I hear a developer knowing that there is this much, these many problems,
issues coming up and this much opposition to a project, it troubles me
when I hear that the developer has only met once with the neighbors, or
maybe twice. I think, maybe projects of this magnitude, the developer should
have the courtesy and respect to at least go out and hear the concerns
of the people. Definitely we would like to have the construction jobs on
this project. I think ,Commissioner Mourdock, I would like to add to your
list, you said that anybody who thinks that Democrats always vote one way
and Republicans vote another way, well I would like to add labor unions
to that also. Even though we would like to see the jobs, to me, the quality
of life in this area, and most importantly, the safety concerns that I
have for the students going to and from USI overrides any economic benefits
that our members would get or anybody else in the area out of this project.
I would at least hope that this is voted down at this point until we have
a better idea of what, and get commitments out of the developer as far
as the road improvements. Not what he would do or could do if he wants
to, I think everybody wants to see exactly what he has committed to doing,
no matter what. I too would like to see a no vote on this issue. Thank
you.
President Mosby: Thank you. Brad Ellsworth.
Brad Ellsworth: Good evening, again.
The jail, oh, wrong issue. My name is Brad Ellsworth, Vanderburgh County
Sheriff. I better make a clarification first, (a) I live within about two
and one half miles of this project, so that may jade me one way, but after
that, I'll say may give me a better perspective, because I drive that area
probably four times a day, and have been patrolling it for, or sending
people there for 20 years now, so. I've been through that intersection,
patrolled it, sent people there and I go to and from work at that intersection
everyday. I also want to say that these neighbors and also Mr. Buck have
done a lot more homework on this than I have, but several months ago when
I knew this would come up, I did poll my department. I e-mailed my shift
supervisors and to be perfectly honest, got two e-mails back from supervisors
who said they polled their troops and they did not see a problem with the
project. But they are not here and I'll give you my opinion. Like I said,
after driving this thing for 20 years, like Chief Doerr said, this is a
bigger problem than just, than what I think we are thinking. It's bigger
than Clark Lane. (a) because some of these residents have been lied to
both by former Commissioners and by the University on their traffic problems.
This problem stretches further out Schutte Road than Clark Lane. That whole
road is a dangerous road. There are hills further back that actually throw
cars into each other, that naturally because of the lay of the road will
cause a car to...so that's a problem. Charlie, is Mahrenholz the name of
your street? Mahrenholz, the way it comes down out of the University, it
was promised at one time that that would not have access from the University.
It is a major problem road. These neighbors can tell you and I've seen
it, and stood out there and directed traffic in the snow for hours on end,
when they get to the top of Mahrenholz and come down, they can't stop.
Am I correct there? We've pulled more cars out of that ditch across from
Mahrenholz (Inaudible). Now, it doesn't snow that much here, but that's
going to add into it. We are also talking about University traffic. I think
we are being short sited there, because the closest convenience store to
the west is going to be Busler's out at 62 and the county line, or that's
further than the county line actually. So, you are also going to get the
traffic that comes across the highway from the north side of the highway
along with University traffic and the Union Township traffic and you are
also going to get....because people are going to go to the closest place.
I mean, that's just natural. It's a convenience store and convenience means
close, so they are going to come from the closest one. Like Bob Doerr said,
that, when you come down that hill, the road is in terrible shape, I would
have to see the traffic study and I would like to see that road improved
with the lanes prior...it needs to be improved now without any kind of
development, and from strictly a safety point of view, which is what I'm
interested in, in that area and traffic, it can't handle that increase.
With all due respect to USI students, they are not the most responsible
drivers. Not all of them, but I've seen more than one. Like I said, I drive
it, not only Mahrenholz, but Clark Lane, and, I mean, if you don't go through
at ten miles an hour when you are coming through there, you know, there
are people pulling out in front of you. There is more close calls than
there are wrecks, and we work, I don't want to say countless wrecks, but
dozens of wrecks. So, with that, from a strictly safety and with those,
with the things I've told you earlier about living there and what my deputies
said, I can't recommend at this time without seeing the traffic study and
a true count and the improvements and taking into consideration Mahrenholz
and that being the bottom of the valley, and the traffic and how it all
goes right into that hole, where the entrance, what I've seen will be.
That's what I have to say. Thank you.
President Mosby: Dan, Dan Buck.
Madelyn Grayson: May we make a tape
change please?
President Mosby: Sure.
(Tape Changed)
President Mosby: Are we back on the
tape, Madelyn?
Madelyn Grayson: Yes.
President Mosby: Okay.
Clarence Weber: I'm Clarence Weber
and I am, it's my yard and my ditch where Brad's been pulling them all
out of. I know what Schutte Road's like, and I've lived there, I was born
on Schutte Road in 1932. Now, I talked to Carol McClintock 15 years ago,
she said we did not have enough traffic on Schutte Road for any type of
improvement. Well, I got a hold of the County Commissioners in 1991, and
Rose Zigenfus said that the state was going to put a turn lane on, a right
turn lane on Schutte at the Expressway and extend the other and that should
take care of it. Well, the traffic has picked up, USI has added 200, 300,
400 people every time they build a dorm, coming down Schutte Road. So,
I got a hold of Bettye Lou Jerrel. Bettye Lou Jerrel said that right now
her money is all tied up on Burkhardt Road, and we don't have any money
on Schutte Road. Now as far as the state thing, if you all looked in the
paper, on this state project, the way I read it, the state don't have any
idea what to do at Schutte Road. If they're going to study it, you might
as well figure on ten years of studying. Furthermore, the state don't have
any money. If there's anything built there, it's going to have to be the
county. Because the county built the overpass at USI. So, any improvements
at Schutte Road this board is going to have to take care of within the
next ten years. Now Rose Zigenfus says there is nothing on any type of
improvement before 2010. So, if there's...if the road is a problem, that
is, I mean, somebody else is going to have to take care of it. I petitioned
Dan Buck last September for something that would take care of the sewer
situation, and take care of his road situation, and would fit in with the
neighbors. Hopefully, we could take care of it all. Right now nobody's
septic tank out there works. Anybody's that does, all's they have to do
is look at my creek, it runs down my creek. Dan has come up with a minimum
of something that we could live with. I live right next to this project,
and my two brothers do too. We figure on living there the rest of our lives.
So, I figure that this is about as close a project as we could come up
with, and get some, something done with Schutte Road and keep them out
of my ditch. My mailbox was hit twice since August. Neither one of them
was a student. The first one was drunk, and I don't know who the second
one was, because he didn't stop. The first one didn't get very far. That's
all I wanted to tell you. Schutte Road is problem. Either this board is
going to have to fix it, or else you're going to have to live with it.
President Mosby: Thank you. Kevin
Flittner.
Kevin Flittner: I'm Kevin Flittner.
I own from Schutte Road and Nurrenbern Road on the south side of Broadway.
Most of the watershed that comes off USI comes down on me. I've lived with
that. I mean, used to a cow could walk across the pasture, go across the
creek, no problem. Right now if a cow did that it would fall and break
it's neck. I mean, it's a four or five foot drop off, erosion is just unbelievable.
Every time is rains...I will not let my boy play in that creek, because
it can swell up and he'd be gone. The other creek can't handle much more
water than what it already takes as it is. The watershed that would come
off of anything on the other side of Schutte Road would come down on the
other side of the other creek that comes into my property. I couldn't imagine
where that water would go. I don't even know where it would go. I'm not
sure where the water is going now, but when it comes up, it comes up big.
It needs, that needs to be looked at. The safety factor of this intersection
up here at Schutte Road, it's always been a problem. The light was a good
thing, not necessarily for everybody that wants to go down the highway
and not stop for it, but for the students. The students up at USI are blessed
by going to a school out in the country kind of. I didn't move out there
for, to have a convenience store in my backyard, or a gas station. I moved
out there because I liked to live out in the county like everybody else
I know that lives on the west side. We do not want the city in our backyard.
We've watched the development of Red Bank Road go way past Boehne Camp,
which I did not think it would go that far. I used to hunt where the Red
Bank, and where the stadium inn and all the Home Depot and all that is.
That was a beautiful set of woods. There was a lot of wildlife back there.
I never killed anything back there, I mean, but I enjoyed it. It was beautiful
ground, and they massacred it. They leveled it. What are they going to
do in between Schutte Road and Red Bank now? Are they going to do that
to all of it? I know the people of the west side are not happy with this.
I can't believe they got as much done as they did out there without anybody
yelling about it before. There are so many issues to keep from putting
this project out there, that I can't even see why it's still an issue.
There is not, there is not enough safety as far as Schutte Road goes like
Brad said, that road is, you can't fix it. It's going to be the way it
is. You'd have to take out people's houses, hills, creeks, ditches, the
wildlife that's going to be lost because of all the development along there.
If you've ever walked from, I'm going to say to the east of Schutte Road
down from the highway to Broadway, that's beautiful woods back there. You
couldn't even imagine. You can fly over it and you can't tell it, but it's
beautiful. There's forest preserves back there and stuff like that. It's
all bad. People on the west side do not need this. That's pretty much all
I've got to say.
President Mosby: Marc Fine.
Marc Fine: Just in response, and I
will be brief. We did hear today from some of the other people that this
is a land use issue, and I absolutely concur, this is a land use issue.
We're talking about 1.6 acres on the corner of a four lane Expressway with
a traffic light. What we've tried to do in an overall plan is provide for
a slow transition into the existing residential, which is nearby. I would
like to point out in response to the gentleman's comment with regard to
the Wesselman's Woods, you may note that the Wesselman Woods probably as
the crow flies is still a half a mile from the Lloyd Expressway. What we've
tried to do with this overall plan is provide a nice, small, low scale
residential area as a buffer between that and a light commercial area.
It's intended to provide for a transition. This whole development, we've
heard discussion with respect to the improvements that need to be done,
the infrastructure that needs to be done, this whole development is the
perfect partnership between the public and the private sector. Understandably
the developer in this instance is willing and ready and has made a commitment
to put in the necessary infrastructure for the roads and sewers, which
in addition to that will go beyond just this Commission's review. There
is sub review, water and sewer have review, there is potentially a traffic
study and drainage. All these things could help the entire area with regard
to the issues that have been raised by many of the other people here today.
The land now is being farmed. Certainly if you put in infrastructure, you
put in landscaping, if you, if you come up with an overall drainage plan
which will inevitably be addressed beyond this Commission before anything
is ever constructed, these types of issues will be adequately addressed.
Leaving it as farm land, without any trees, without any landscaping certainly
doesn't help the area at all. I'm encouraging you to use this opportunity
to provide a wonderful opportunity for this community to put together the
public and the private sectors into a good land use. I encourage you to
consider this very seriously and vote in favor of it. Thanks.
President Mosby: Thank you. Any questions
by any member of the council? Chair would entertain a motion.
Commissioner Mourdock: I want to make
sure I reference the correct numbers here, because these aren't logical.
I would move for approval on final reading VC-9-2001 from Ag to C-4 with
a use and development commitment .
Commissioner Fanello: And just so
everyone understands, this is a motion to get it on the table and then
we will take a roll call vote. So, I'll second the motion to get it on
the table.
President Mosby: Okay, I have a motion
to accept VC-9-2001-
Commissioner Fanello: I wanted everybody
to understand that.
President Mosby: -and VC-13-2001,
and understand that when we vote, we're taking one vote for both petitions.
Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, but just
to clarify what you said, the motion is only for one, David, it's only
for VC-9 with this one, then we'll have to come back-
President Mosby: Oh, that's right.
Commissioner Mourdock: -and vote on
VC-13.
President Mosby: I'm sorry. That's
right. Okay VC-9-2001, 806 Schutte Road.
|
Roll Call Vote on VC-9-2001
|
President Mosby: Commissioner Mourdock?
Commissioner Mourdock: Well, I can't
let the one earlier comment go by without a quick response, but I went
back through my notes here a minute ago during one of the speakers and
on May 15, 2000, there was the other petition that came here for Boehne
Camp Road for development for a commercial very similar to this. It was
a 2-1 vote, Mr. Strange, one Republican voted for it and one Democrat voted
for it, and I voted against it. My comment that night as reflected in my
notes is that I strive to be consistent. I've said many times here that
I think in zoning the most important thing we can do is be consistent.
The Area Plan calls for this area to be agricultural and residential. It
does not have commercial out at this intersection, and I think to continue
a buffer, if you will, between what we have is more commercial. To the
east and USI, commercial is inappropriate, so I will vote no.
President Mosby: Commissioner Fanello?
Commissioner Fanello: I couldn't have
said it better and I vote no also.
President Mosby: And myself, I vote
no. So, VC-9-2001 is denied 3-0.
|
Roll Call Vote for VC-13-2001
|
Commissioner Mourdock: Motion for
the second one to approve on final is VC-13-2001, which is a request from-
President Mosby: Ag to C-4.
Commissioner Mourdock: -hold on one
second. From Ag to C-4 with a UDC.
Commissioner Fanello: Second.
President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second. Commissioner Mourdock?
Commissioner Mourdock: Same reasoning,
I vote no.
President Mosby: Commissioner Fanello?
Commissioner Fanello: No.
President Mosby: Commissioner Mosby,
no. There being three no's and no aye's, VC-13-2001 is defeated.
Final Reading VC-10-2001
Petitioner: Dan Buck Development
800 and 906 Schutte Road
Request Ag to R-3 with UDC
|
President Mosby: Now we have VC-10-2001,
Dan Buck Development LLC, 800 and 906 Schutte Road, request from Agricultural
to R-3 with use and development.
Marc Fine: Members of the Commission,
this is a 5.9 acre, two parcel petition. These parcels are catty corner
to each other, if you will, and we are requesting an R-3 zoning. Again,
we have filed a very distinctive and intentional use and development commitment
that is intended to provide for a residential area with a two story maximum,
with 75 units maximum. This is not intended to provide for a very large
apartment building, and it's not intended to provide for anything that
would in any way denigrate the area. I would like to go through, briefly,
the criteria for zoning approvals, and we believe that we have met everyone
of those criteria in the most literal sense. The Comprehensive Plan, we've
referenced it earlier today, everyone has indicated that it calls for residential
to be in this area, specifically, to the north of the Lloyd Expressway.
Certainly, this petition is consistent with residential. In addition, you
are supposed to consider the current conditions and the character of the
current structures and uses in each district. This property does abut residential,
although it is located along a major thoroughfare, I think that's consistent
with a little denser residential area than you might expect. It's very
hard to find people living, willing to live in single family residences
along a four lane Expressway. The third criteria, what's the most desirable
use for which the land in each district is adapted? This land is currently
being used as farm land. Certainly it's difficult to believe that this
farm land could not be put to a better use with a low scale residential
area. The conservation of property values throughout the jurisdiction?
This residential development is anticipated to have units starting at $135,000
per unit. I think you would be hard pressed to find the neighbors in the
area that would believe that their property values are in anyway diminished
with units that start at $135,000. We don't anticipate that there will
be students in the area, although it could happen. It's expected that these
would be people that would like to downsize and live, continue to live
on the west side, and continue to enjoy what the west side has to offer,
but move into a smaller, newer unit. Finally, you are to consider the responsible
development and growth. I've indicated earlier, Dan Buck has committed
to put in the proper infrastructure in accordance with the studies that
should come forth. There is appropriate sub review and other sub committee
reviews that would go into place. He's committed to improving Schutte Road,
and he's committed to putting in a sewer lift station, which is bound to
help everyone in that area. Again, and finally, I would like to point out
that the residential area will be, the current residents of the residential
area will continue to be the Weber's who are selling this property and
wouldn't want anything in that area to in anyway devalue their remaining
property. So, to that point we certainly would have an additional buffer
for that area. I encourage you to seriously consider this. This is excellent
land use. It is residential, and it meets all the requirements of the statute
with regard to rezonings. Thank you.
President Mosby: Thank you. If...I
don't...do the same people want to speak again? Or what's...okay, I do
see some hands going up-
Commissioner Mourdock: I have a question.
President Mosby: What I'll...okay,
go ahead.
Commissioner Mourdock: Mark, I have
a question for you. You said there's a $135,000 value, but, again, these
are apartments not condos?
Marc Fine: Well, there would be a
....they're actually, potentially two different types. They're villas.
I don't know if you are familiar with what other Dan Buck Developments,
but the one's that I'm thinking of in particular would be similar to...well,
I want to call them villa-minimums, and that's sort of an odd statement.
Sort of a...and I also want to say zero lot line, and that's really, that
carries a different connotation too-
Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, but when-
Marc Fine: -but it would be free standing
structures. They are maximum two stories. They are consistent with...I
know Danbury Villas, which is off of Lynch Road, which is something he
has also done. Yes, I think you have copies of what he's done in other
areas.
Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, but in
saying they are free standing, I picture one unit per standing structure.
Is that what you are saying?
Marc Fine: Poten...I think the....from
the viewpoint perspective, those are often looked at as duplexes-
Commissioner Mourdock: Your clients
waving a bit of a hand there. Four per structure? Okay, just for the record,
Dan Buck...okay. But, again, at the $135,000 number that's not meant to
infer that they're condominiums for sale at that price? That's simply the
value that you're estimating it would cost to create these units? Is that?--
Marc Fine: Retail price.
Commissioner Mourdock: Okay.
Marc Fine: It's...not for the building,
for the residential living unit itself.
Commissioner Mourdock: Okay.
Marc Fine: So, if there's four in
a building, that's four times $135,000.
Commissioner Mourdock: Okay.
President Mosby: As soon as we have
speakers, I'll give you rebuttal again. What I will do is I'll call the
names in the order I have them. If you want to speak, fine. If you don't,
just say pass. Gregg Baker.
Gregg Baker: I'll just say that my
earlier comments apply to this as well. I would like to see what the Corradino
Group says first for the entire corridor.
President Mosby: Okay. Thank you.
John Strange.
John Strange: I don't know, you've
voted two of them down now, and it's not going to make a bit of difference,
because you are still going to have the traffic problem, and every problem
you have out there whatever you build; apartments, houses, you're still
going to have the same problem. So, you voted two down, let's see what
we do on this one.
President Mosby: Thank you. Jim Seibert.
Jim Seibert: I too have the same concerns
as I did before. Primarily a safety issue. Mr. Buck's calculations are
approximately each apartment would have ten trips a day out onto Schutte
Road. So we are asking for 750 more cars to come out on Schutte Road everyday
there. The use and development has no restrictions on the owner occupancy
of these developments, which leads me to believe that probably ten years
this will become apartment complexes for University housing. Some of the
criteria mentioned for the zoning, the Comprehensive Plan calls this residential,
but if you go to the neighborhood you'll know that this is single family
residential, not what we want to call high density residential. I think
the neighbors have...we're pretty much in agreement that if Mr. Buck had
stayed with his original 30-35 town homes that he had proposed several
months ago, that we probably wouldn't have had this much objections to
it, but now that the number has more than doubled to 75 we do have these
objections. It abuts residential, but like I said, this is single family
home residential in this area. He states that nobody wants to build next
to an expressway, well, approximately three miles down the road West Summit
Estates does abut the expressway down there with a nice tree buffer. These
are nice, single family homes probably in the $350,000 range. So, yes,
the proper development can be done to where this would be single family
residential homes. We're concerned about 75 units on just 5.9 acres. The
amount of run off, the drainage are the issues that are going to be coming
from there is a big concern to us. I did find it interesting that in front
of the Area Plan Commission, Ms. Lockyear stated that Mr. Buck had not
made any commitments at this time to improve Schutte Road if the commercial
development was not approved. If I understand it tonight, Mr. Buck is now
making that commitment to improve Schutte Road if only the residential
is approved. I just want to make that clarification, if I could, because
it was stated that they could not afford to improve Schutte Road if only
the residential went in place.
President Mosby: And I think, I think
he said that. He can correct himself when he comes up, if the study warrants
it.
Jim Seibert: Right.
President Mosby: And he can correct
that if he wants. Bob Doerr.
Bob Doerr: I was wondering if I could
speak as a resident and not the Fire Department?
President Mosby: Sure.
Bob Doerr: Okay. For one thing, you
know, I live very close to this area. So far we've had several developments
along the Pearl Drive area and all that. The developer, his original plan
showed that to be keeping the lay of the land, keeping in as many trees
as he could, and stuff like that. You look at it now, and it's a big, flat
thing and, evidently, he couldn't keep any trees. So, to be able to go
by what the developer says he's going to do and what he actually does is
a different thing. Right now this guy gets up here and tells us that he
don't even know what they are going to build there yet. Because you asked
him what they was going to build and he changed his mind two or three times.
So, you know, how can you vote on something that you don't even know what's
going to be there. That's all I got to say.
President Mosby: Thank you. Pat Conner.
Pat Conner: Okay, I'm going to go
back to, go back to the Master Plan on this, and one of the objectives
of the Master Plan, under residential, one of the objectives says, and
I'm reading here, ensure residential growth occurs in appropriate areas,
accommodates future demands on the transportation network, community services
and utilities and create a favorable environment for neighborhood living.
One of the policies under that objective is to promote creative subdivision
design that is sensitive to and minimizes the impact on natural features,
and provides for common, open space, bicycle and pedestrian ways. Now,
one of my biggest concerns on this, one I don't think, I don't think this
R-3 fits into this as well. I think it's excessive. Some of the comments
that were made earlier about run off and things of that nature, and destroying,
I think, the character of the neighborhood on the west side. I think all
that comes into play, but, you know, I would like to look a little bit
ahead into the future and ask the question, however you develop this property
at Schutte and the Expressway, how do you think the property immediately
adjacent is going to be developed? If this is good development, then you're
going to get good development in the property next to it which abuts Felstead,
which is a very winding road, and are you going to put another light there
when that development comes into place? It needs to be done, it needs to
be done right, it needs to be done well, it needs to be thought out, and
I think what's going in there is excessive. I think, again, the Master
Plan calls for the creative use of that land, and, I think, just putting
in a bunch of four unit apartment buildings is not creative. Now, if you'll
look at some of the developments that are out there in the neighborhoods
today, the green space set backs are terrible. I mean, why can't we have,
why can't we have something that looks nice, and be functional at the same
time? I think that is, that is what we should all strive for as residents
of Vanderburgh County. Is to look for something that is positive, that
leaves a lasting impression, a positive impression, on the people that
come here to Evansville and visit the University of Evansville or University
of Southern Indiana, or anyplace in our community. So, you know, I think
it's a bad plan, and I would like for you to vote no.
President Mosby: Thank you. Bob, okay.
Randy Brown.
Randy Brown: At the risk of sounding
repetitive, one other concern that I have is the quality of construction
that is being proposed. When you get into, especially multi family dwellings.
Unfortunately, the market pressure on all developers these days is such,
to be competitive and keep the prices down, they have to look for the most
economic and, for lack of better words, the cheapest way to construct these
buildings. Both with manpower and building materials. It's been stated
many times that the Vanderburgh County Building Commissions office does
not have the manpower to adequately police Building Codes to make sure
that the permits that are being taken out for these construction projects.
They just don't have the manpower. Unfortunately, we don't seem to be able
to find a way at this point to hire any more inspectors to make sure that
the customer and the consumer is getting exactly what they are paying for.
I can tell you that in Vanderburgh County there has been hundreds of millions
of dollars worth of residential work that's been installed that has been
installed improperly. What I'm worried about is what I call disposable
type housing. I'm afraid that this may be that way. After the tax laws
kick in they depreciate this property out. After ten, 15, 20 years, that
may sound like a long time, but those of us who's getting a few years on
us understand how fast that time flies. I don't want to drive down there
ten, 15 years from now and see something that was maybe the full intent
was to be high quality construction, or at least the image of that, perceived
as that, and turn out ten years down the road we have housing that maybe
has lowered itself in value to the point that maybe USI students or whoever
else can now afford to live in those units. I can tell you anybody that...kids
are wonderful, I've got two kids that graduated from USI and another one
that is going there right now, but I can tell you I don't want her partying
next to my house. I'm afraid that's what's going to happen, so, with all
that said we are...I am adamantly opposed to that project also. Thank you.
President Mosby: Thank you. Brad.
Pass? Okay. Dan Buck. Pass, okay. Clarence Weber.
Clarence Weber: I pass.
President Mosby: Kevin Flittner.
Kevin Flittner: Yeah, I'm going to
say a few more things about that. That apartment building thing is not
going to be any different than if you put a gas station or whatever else
in. You may have less trash blowing around. I worked for C.R. Smith Power
Sweeping for a while, and believe me, this city has more trash than you
can deal with. I have never picked up and seen more trash in my life. I
really don't want it blowing around on the west side. It's bad enough in
by Red Bank. If you don't believe that, go look in your ditches, because
it's horrible. What comes down my creek is horrible. You would not beleive
the debris I see floating down that creek. Residential housing, single
units, I mean, as far as someone wanting to build a house up there, that's
fine. Five something acres that they are talking about, he knocked it as
it's just farm land. Five acres of farm land will soak up a lot of rain
water. I mean, and to shed off that much water on a parking lot, you wouldn't
believe how much water would come off of there. The other guy said something
about down the road there is residential and there's a tree break and there
is some beautiful homes, that's true. These people want to live there,
and they want to beautify their land, they want to make it worth more money.
They ought to just make it worth more money and fix it, because it's a
nice place up there. I would rather look over when I'm pulling out of Schutte
Road and see a corn field than see a bunch of apartments that are going
to be run down like in 15 years. Construction on apartments is really shoddy.
I've worked construction all my life. I've seen apartments just like USI
that's built up there, I worked on those apartments, and I'll tell you
, they're not that great. I mean, they're not. I mean, I'm glad I don't
have to live in them. Those were on state ground, that those were built,
and they had to meet certain codes. What they build up there may not be
so great. That ground, you know, they are going to have to go in an bulldoze
it and start leveling it, and then you got soil erosion again. I'm big
on that because I've watched my farm just deteriorate because all the water
coming down there. I need to talk to the Corp of Engineers Soil Conservation
Officer. I don't, you know, I'm kind of scared to do that. There's a lot
that can be done with that property. I think you all really ought to hold
back, take a good look at what could be done with it to best benefit the
west side improvement people, and try to do what you can do best, and not
rush into it. Apartments ain't the answer either. There is plenty of them
across the road the other way. There is plenty of ground to build on over.
If the state wants it for the college students, there is plenty of ground.
I can't tell you how many thousands of acres USI owns. I know, they own
everything around me. There is plenty of places they can build apartments
if they want them. If not, that school is better off to be isolated. Keep
the rif raf away from that school. Keep convenience stores away from that
school, because that is where you are going to get your outside people
come in there messing with your students, you know. There's enough trouble
inside that campus, you don't need to put trouble around it.
President Mosby: Marc Fine.
Marc Fine: This is a land use issue.
Many of the issues that have been addressed by some of the other people
are really beyond land use. We have met the statutory criteria for appropriate
land use. This is within the Master Plan as residential. 75 units is not
high density for this type of development. Dan Buck has been in the development
business for 20 plus years. Significant landscaping is a part of everyone
of his developments. To a large degree the complaints today with regard
to matters beyond land use, trees, etcetera have been resolved through
appropriate and good development processes, which he can stand on with
20 years of experience. He does not intend to be a land lord for all these
units. He anticipates selling them, and he needs to build quality units
with nice landscaping which will have a curb appeal and will sell. That's
his intention. This is a tremendous opportunity, consistent with the Master
Plan to forge an excellent partnership between the private and the public
sector. Infrastructure would be provided to resolve a lot of the matters
that you've heard from the neighbors today. This is an excellent land use
issue. We've met the criteria. I'm encouraging you to vote in favor.
Commissioner Mourdock: I have a question,
Mr. Fine. Would you clarify once and for all, Mr. Seibert raised the issue
and I know you were not at the Area Plan meeting, that Krista was representing.
Will the improvements to Schutte Road be made if this zoning request passes
given that the previous two did not pass?
Marc Fine: I thought the question
you were going to ask, so with regard to the infrastructure on Schutte
Road, and I think the comment that was said earlier, traffic studies are
typically the precursor to improvements. Anticipating that the traffic
study appropriate liens need to be installed, we are going to do what the
traffic study tells us to do.
Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, so if
the traffic study that you do for the residential, since commercial is
now out of the question here, if the traffic study for the residential
says there are improvements needed on Schutte, you are committing to make
those improvements?
Marc Fine: Yes.
Commissioner Mourdock: Thank you.
President Mosby: I just want to ask
you a question. How many times did you meet with the neighbors? Or I know
you didn't, but-
Marc Fine: Twice? How many times did
you meet with the neighbors?
Dan Buck: I met twice. My Vice President
once, and Krista (Inaudible) times. (Inaudible. Not at mike.)
Marc Fine: Do you want me to reiterate
that?
Commissioner Mourdock: Yes.
President Mosby: Yes, I didn't hear
what he said about Krista.
Marc Fine: Dan said twice himself,
his Vice President once on another occasion, and Krista Lockyear was available
and I think she has talked to numerous people on the telephone. So-
President Mosby: Okay.
Marc Fine: -I don't know if that answers.
Unidentified: David, could I follow
up on that? Would you mind?
President Mosby: No, I don't mind,
because I hadn't had a meting with you so go ahead.
Unidentified: The-
President Mosby: But I need you at
the mike, Gregg.
Gregg Baker: We met with Krista after
you asked us to-
President Mosby: Uh-huh.
Gregg Baker: -and we gave some recomm...or
what we would like to see, and we got no answer back from that meeting.
President Mosby: Okay, that's what
I was wondering. Any other questions of Mark? Thank you. Chair would entertain
a motion at this point.
Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval
of VC-10-2001, 800 and 906 Schutte Road, from Ag to R-3 with a use and
development commitment .
Commissioner Fanello: Second.
President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second.
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Roll Call Vote on VC-10-2001
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President Mosby: Commissioner Mourdock?
Commissioner Mourdock: I think it
was at the first zoning meeting I ever attended as a Commissioner when
Rick Borries took me aside after the meeting and said the meetings you'll
hate the worst are the one's when you leave and everybody's mad at you.
Well, tonight I have that chance, I guess, because I again am going to
be consistent which is going to make a lot of you mad. Mr. Conner said
it best, you know the Area Plan Master Plan does say that this is to be
a residential area. The Master Plan does not differentiate between multi
family residential and single family residential. We also need buffers
in this community, and I don't think we do nearly enough of that, and I
see this type of multi family as, in fact, being a buffer to those single
family residences that all of you represent, or most of you represent.
So, for this one I will vote yes.
President Mosby: Commissioner Fanello?
Commissioner Fanello: Due to the fact
that the residents are not happy and they could not work out something
with the developer, I do not feel comfortable in voting yes, so I vote
no.
President Mosby: And as someone who
asked the residents to meet with the developer and was hoping there would
be a lot of dialogue in working through to a decision, and I don't really
see that that happened, I am going to vote no. There being two no's and
one yes, the petition is denied. Motion to adjourn?
Commissioner Mourdock: Motion to adjourn.
Commissioner Fanello: Second.
President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second to adjourn the meeting. So ordered.
The meeting was adjourned at 8:35
p.m.
Those in Attendance:
Catherine Fanello
David W. Mosby
Richard Mourdock
Philip Hayes
Madelyn Grayson
Beverly Behme
Les Shively
Marc Fine
Gregg Baker
John Strange
Jim Seibert
Bob Doerr
Pat Conner
Randy Brown
Brad Ellsworth
Dan Buck
Clarence Weber
Kevin Flittner
Bob Hornbrook
Others Unidentified
Members of Media
APPROVAL:
VANDERBURGH COUNTY
BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
______________________________
David W. Mosby, President
______________________________
Catherine Fanello, Vice President
______________________________
Richard E. Mourdock, Member
Recorded and Transcribed by Madelyn
Grayson
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