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Rezoning Board May 20, 2002
The Vanderburgh County Rezoning Board
met in session this 20th day of May, 2002, at 7:08 p.m. in Room
307 of the Civic Center Complex with President Catherine Fanello presiding.
President Fanello: Call to order Vanderburgh
County Rezoning meeting, May 20, 2002.
President Fanello: Do I have approval of the minutes of the previous meeting? Commissioner Mosby: So moved. President Fanello: Second, and so
ordered.
President Fanello: First readings, VC-8-2002, petitioner, J.J. Brodi, LLC, address, 4510 Heckel Road, request is R-3 to C-4. Commissioner Mosby: Motion to accept rezoning on first reading. President Fanello: Second, and so
ordered.
President Fanello: Final rezonings. VC-1-2002, petitioner, University Shopping Center, address, 111 North Red Bank Road, request A change to C-4. Beverly Behme: Mr. Bohleber is in the city, and I think he's going to be there awhile. If there is anything I can answer, I will be glad to. Commissioner Mosby: I would just say that I had conversation with Mr. Bohleber on Friday or Saturday. This has been worked out with the Westside Improvement Association, and also with the City Council. I think they are hearing the same petition tonight that we're hearing. If there is no remonstrators present, is there any remonstrators present? Seeing none. I would make a motion to approve. Call the roll. President Fanello: Second. Roll call. Commissioner Mosby? Commissioner Mosby: Aye. President Fanello: And I vote yes. Ordinance passes. Rezoning passes. Next rezoning VC-6-2002, petitioner Allen Gries, address 4612 North St. Joe Avenue, request is Ag change to M-2. Anyone wishing to speak to that rezoning? Justin Shofstall: Justin Shofstall with Easley Engineering. What we're proposing here is, essentially, a proposal for a four lot industrial subdivision. One of the oddities on this subdivision is the fact that the developer himself will be occupying, at least, one of the lots, and, at this time, possibly two. The intention is to at least occupy for Mr. Gries and his business, being Allen Gries Disposal, and the construction of an office and storage facilities for his trucks. Also as far as the possibility, as far as, having recycling bin areas, such as, similar to BFI and Onyx has, but there will be no garbage or waste disposal on site. Also, as far as with other businesses that Mr. Gries is associated with through colleagues of his would be a possibility of a small machine shop, very similar to some of the other operations, and, also, as far as the first one I can think of would be something similar to the Lloyd's Machine Shop, which is directly across from this property in St. Joe Industrial Park. Then a water distribution facility, something similar to like Hinckley Springs or Cameron Springs (Inaudible) Springs, of that sort. As far as a storage warehouse facility, and truck deliveries. President Fanello: Are there any questions from Commissioner Mosby? Commissioner Mosby: I just know you had conversation with one of the neighbors out there. Have you signed a private covenant with that neighbor? Allen Gries: He decided that there was no need for it. He didn't feel that he had any need for the agreement. Madelyn Grayson: Can you please come to microphone, sir? Allen Gries: I'm sorry? Madelyn Grayson: Speak in the microphone, please. Allen Gries: Okay, yeah, Joe Gatewood was talking about a use and development type thing, and then he decided that since I was going to be occupying a large area in this subdivision myself, it was going to be right next to his property, that he decided he didn't need that use and development agreement. So, therefore, he decided to just go ahead and give me his blessing on it, and didn't even go to the last meeting. He said he didn't feel like he needed to. Commissioner Mosby: Okay, I understand that on use and development, but it's my understanding you were signing a private covenant, so that you didn't have to take this back to Area Plan. Allen Gries: Private covenant? Commissioner Mosby: Yes. Allen Gries: He, uh, Mr. Gatewood said, he just said just go ahead and don't worry about it. He said he's fine with it. That's what Joe told me. We talked, sit down and talked for awhile, and he said, you know, he said he don't want to hold me up anymore. He said he knows I'll be a good neighbor, and do the right thing. Since I'm going to be occupying, you know, a large area myself, he don't think he ought to do anything to decrease the value of my property anymore than I would his. Madelyn Grayson: Would you state your name for the record, sir? Allen Gries: It's Allen Gries. Justin Shofstall: On that, is, are we talking about, as far as a private covenant, are we talking about as far as a private covenant between Mr. Gries and Mr. Gatewood himself? Or something that would be applying to the subdivision with covenants and restrictions? Commissioner Mosby: A private covenant is between two property owners. A use and development follows the properties filed through Area Plan. Now, the last conversation I had with Mr. Gatewood, and also with Mr. Gries is that they were not going to do a use and development, because it would require going back to APC, but the last understanding I had, there was going to be a private covenant between them two. Which would also follow the property, and he would have the right to sue Mr. Gries at any point in time if he violated the covenant. Allen Gries: I'm not understanding. I don't know anything about that. Do you? Justin Shofstall: He never mentioned anything to me. Allen Gries: He never mentioned anything to me about it. Commissioner Mosby: Okay. I don't have anymore questions. President Fanello: Well, I'm uncomfortable with that, because of what I had understood was going to happen. I know you say you've talked, and I'm a believer that things are better in writing than in words. I would rather see that you had some type of private covenant. That's my thought. Commissioner Mosby: With a private...well, we don't have a meeting next Monday. With a private covenant, we can come back here- Beverly Behme: (Inaudible. Mike not on.) Commissioner Mosby: -that's what I say, it doesn't involve APC- Beverly Behme: Right. Commissioner Mosby: -so, we can hold this until the week after Memorial Day, and still come back without going back to APC. Beverly Behme: (Inaudible. Mike not on.) It was just heard (Inaudible.) Madelyn Grayson: Bev, can you turn your mike on? Commissioner Mosby: It's on. President Fanello: Bev. Commissioner Mosby: Oh. Beverly Behme: I'm sorry. There's time. Commissioner Mosby: The advertisement is fine. Beverly Behme: Yeah. Commissioner Mosby: Okay. Beverly Behme: I mean, we're not involved, I mean, if you want to wait. Kevin Winternheimer: Yeah, what she's saying is your 90 days is (Inaudible). Beverly Behme: We're fine. Kevin Winternheimer: Plus, if, what, to save readvertising, and all that, if you want to continue it, continue it to a specific time and date, then you don't have to readvertise it. It's just a continuation of this consideration. Beverly Behme: Right. Kevin Winternheimer: So, you can do that, if you want to. Commissioner Mosby: I would continue, well, I mean, unless he wants to go forward, but, I mean, I would say we continue it until June the 3rd. Beverly Behme: Okay. I'll be here. Justin Shofstall: At that point, having at least (Inaudible. Talking over each other.) Commissioner Mosby: It has no affect on the advertisement. You don't have to wait and go back to Area Plan- Beverly Behme: No. Commissioner Mosby: -come all the way back here, because then you would be the end of June. We can specifically put it off till June the 3rd, and there's no problem. I mean, it's not rezoning night, but we could hear this one petition, if we want. Justin Shofstall: At that point, then, the Commissioners would be expecting to see, at least, some sort of signed paperwork between Mr. Gries and Mr. Gatewood regarding the private covenant? Commissioner Mosby: The last conversation I had with Mr. Gatewood there was going to be a private covenant. I know the use and development was not going to happen, but there was going to be a private covenant. He's saying he didn't know anything about a private covenant. So- Allen Gries: You're right, Joe never said anything to me about it. Commissioner Mosby: Well, I talked to you about it on the phone. Allen Gries: I haven't talked to you since I talked to Joe, Dave. Commissioner Mosby: I talked to you back on, I don't even recall the date, but I told you then you could sign a private covenant, because he had said something to me about it. So, I mentioned it to you at that point in time. Allen Gries: Well, at that time, I was going to get together with him and do this use and development thing, is the best of my understanding. Commissioner Mosby: And I told you- Allen Gries: And Joe said, don't worry about it. He said, I don't feel like I need it. I feel like I trust you, and I feel like you are going to be a good neighbor to me. Justin Shofstall: On that, then, with what the conversation was beforehand, if you were willing to go ahead and continue this to June 3rd, allowing us time to at least where Mr. Gries and Mr. Gatewood can definitely get at least something down on paper. Commissioner Mosby: If Mr. Gatewood, I mean, I'm doing this to clear my mind, because I have had conversation with Mr. Gatewood- Justin Shofstall: Right. Commissioner Mosby: -on three or four occasions. You know, if he tells me that he doesn't want it, that's fine. Kevin Winternheimer: I was going to suggest that if he doesn't want the use and development, he doesn't want the covenant, just give you a letter in writing. Something signed in writing to indicate that's what he's desiring. Justin Shofstall: As long as this is definitely for paperwork to go into the file. Commissioner Mosby: But I don't feel comfortable voting on it tonight, after the conversation I've had with him, so. President Fanello: So, I guess, you need to make a motion to continue- Commissioner Mosby: I will make a motion to continue this until June the 3rd. President Fanello: At our regularly scheduled 5:30 meeting. Commissioner Mosby: Right. President Fanello: And I'll say second, and so ordered. Madelyn Grayson: Kevin, that will fall under the guidelines of what we discussed in the Commission meeting, where no advertising is required? Kevin Winternheimer: Right. Because they continued the matter till a specific date and time, that no further advertisement is needed. No further notices to anybody else. If they wanted to be here with a concern, they should have been here tonight. So, it can just be brought up. Justin Shofstall: June 3rd, 5:30? Commissioner Mosby: June 3rd. President Fanello: Yes. Commissioner Mosby: Regular meeting, yeah, because it's not zoning night. We're just going to hear this one special. President Fanello: Alright, thank you. Next rezoning we have is VC-7-2002, petitioner, James Adler, address, 5522 North St. Joe Avenue, request Ag change to C-4. Is there anyone wanting to speak to this rezoning? James Adler: My name is James Adler. If you've got any questions, I'm just here to answer them. If not, I don't have anything to add to the request. President Fanello: Are there any questions by the Commission? Commissioner Mosby: I guess, the one question I have, and it's under the staff report. It says that this is a shallow, triangular lot which makes it difficult to meet minimum code requirements for commercial development. The plan discourages the use of variances as a means of permitting substandard parking. How do you intend to meet with the parking requirements? James Adler: Well, our intended use here is a contractor's shop. Just a pole barn building to store some equipment and seasonal materials in. Whatever size we can get on there within the code, is what we'll put on there. If we can't, we won't, but we weren't going to do anything as far as developing a complete plan for the lot until we knew we could put a building on it. I mean, we're just, we can't put a contractor's shop on there with Ag, with it's present zoning. So, we need to get it changed to put a building on it. Beverly Behme: He's going to be limited to the size of his building. James Adler: Yeah. We, our intended size was like a 60' X 80', but the set back we were told out there was like 50', but we come to find out at the last meeting that it's 70'. So, we may have to cut down the size of the building. Commissioner Mosby: So, you really don't have a plan? James Adler: Yeah, we plan to put a contractor's shop up. Mr. Jeffers brought up the point that it's in a flood plan, or flood plain there, or something. Bill Jeffers: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) James Adler: There's some drainage issues out there, and if we reach a certain level of (Inaudible. Stepped away from mike.) We may have to build a smaller building than what we originally intended, is the only. Beverly Behme: The 70' set back that you were talking about, that's a thoroughfare setback from the center line to St. Joe. So, he has to stay 70' back from that. Then that is going to limit him to his size, plus he has concerns about the flood area. So, he's going to be limited to a smaller building than what he's got shown here. Commissioner Mosby: Well, how big is your present building? James Adler: We don't have a building yet. Beverly Behme: He doesn't have one. Commissioner Mosby: So, you have no building whatsoever? James Adler: No. Commissioner Mosby: You don't operate out of anywhere? James Adler: Oh, we've got a building we're renting on Maxwell Avenue, but- Commissioner Mosby: Okay, well, how big is it? James Adler: It's 40' X 60'. Commissioner Mosby: So- James Adler: But we, basically, just store materials in there, and you can't pull trucks in it. It's just a building we can store inventory in during the season. Commissioner Mosby: Okay. James Adler: All the trucks we have are, like the truck I drive, my sons drive, that's our whole fleet. We drive our trucks home, you see. It's not a customer oriented site. There would never be anybody there except us working. That's just where we pick, drop off, you know, store our equipment overnight, or in between jobs. Plastic pipe inside the building, and irrigation parts. Commissioner Mosby: Well, how many people do you have working for you? James Adler: I work for myself. My son owns a business that we would have in there. Or, he and I are together, actually, we just, it's just me and my two sons, is all it is. Commissioner Mosby: Okay. James Adler: So, counting owners, I guess, we'd never have more, than at the very most, four employees. Pick up a guy in the Summertime, once in awhile, but, it's just a small, family business. Has been for 25 years. Commissioner Mosby: Okay. President Fanello: Are there any (Turned mike on) Excuse me, are there any remonstrators in the public who would like to speak? Please come forward. Commissioner Mosby: Oh, okay. President Fanello: If you would, go ahead and state your name, for the record. Ola Garland: My name is Ola Garland, and I own a property in close proximity to this. I would like to object to the spot zoning. It's an area that's agriculture, and it's residential. I feel like the property devaluation of the farms and the country homes would occur here, because it's located approximately 3 ½ miles out of the city limits, so it is Ag country. I believe the property is far too small for the proposed purpose, to house large backhoes and dump trucks, and other large equipment. For parking, and also the right-of-way lessens the space for this type of business. I fear it will open the door for damage to my property and others by unlawful parking of such large equipment, that, if it's passed, it would be detrimental to the surrounding area. The property could be rezoned, and then after it was rezoned it could be sold and used for something else. I also feel that with the BFI, and the county trucks, and the farm equipment, and the traffic, it would add a burden to the outer St. Joe Avenue, which is only a narrow road. It is not the wide lane, after it passes Mill Road, which is where this property is. I feel it would be an added burden to include large construction equipment to that narrow road. Like I said, I feel that the overspill from this large equipment is going to enter into, possibly, my property and others, because there's not, this isn't large enough. It really isn't large enough for him to build a building on, and it sure isn't for large equipment, such as that. I just don't want any damage to my own. I think you can see this is too small, really, for it to be put on. So, I would respectfully ask the Commission to consider and refrain from changing the zoning, at this time, at least, until possibly that area...the road is widened, and things are a little more susceptible to his type of business. So, I thank you. President Fanello: Thank you, Ola. Does the Commission have any questions for her? Commissioner Mosby: No, I was looking at some pictures she gave me. I guess, my question to the petitioner would be, the buildings that are presently on the property, are you tearing them down? Or what are you doing? James Adler: There are no buildings. Let me see what you are looking at. That's on a neighbor's property. There's 66' of railroad right-of-way that runs behind the property behind- Beverly Behme: Here's an aerial. James Adler: Yeah. These are the buildings you see right there in that picture. Here's Ms. Garland's property back here. She has a 20' easement off here to get to that 10 acres, and there's 66' of railroad property in between. Commissioner Mosby: So, this, is this your truck? James Adler: Yeah. That's my truck, yeah. Commissioner Mosby: Okay. James Adler: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Now those are concrete tile. Here's some pipe sitting over here, and a couple pieces of equipment. Commissioner Mosby: Okay. I was going to say, I had that aerial view somewhere. It's right here. Madelyn Grayson: Beverly, can we have copies of those pictures for the record? Commissioner Mosby: Yeah, because I've got a copy of the aerial view. I looked at it already. President Fanello: Do you want a copy of her comments? Commissioner Mosby: How much equipment do you have? James Adler: Equipment? Commissioner Mosby: Yeah. James Adler: We've got a mini excavator, and a pipe file, and a tractor with a front end loader on it. Commissioner Mosby: No dump trucks, pick ups trucks, no other equipment? James Adler: We've got pick up trucks that we drive home. That, in there, is a flat bed truck that you see on that picture. The only, that would be the only truck that would sit on the site, probably. It would be in the building. If we could get a building up, if we can put a building up, obviously. Beverly Behme: Mr. Bohleber, you're finished. James Adler: There's a recycling place across the street. Then there's manufacturing across the street from this also. You can look in that aerial photo. (Inaudible. Stepped away from mike.) Here's the manufacturing, here's recycling. Commissioner Mosby: So, Beverly, you say they would have to go to site review and get a variance. Beverly Behme: They would have to go to site review for any building that they put on there, for approval. If he builds anything. His problem, if you look at this, it shows 60' for this size building. So, he will have to have 70'. So, he's going to have to cut the building off. This is just an example. This isn't, I mean, he has not gone to site review. He will go to site review. He'll show parking, and they'll have to determine the access on St. Joe also. So, he's got a couple of steps to go before he's ready to open shop. If this is approved. James Adler: We just trying, at this point, we're trying to find out if we can even, I mean, we're proposing to put that size building on there. If because right-of-way, it's got to be smaller, then if that smaller size, if it's not suitable for what we need, then we're just not going to do it, but- Commissioner Mosby: Okay, that answered my question. James Adler: I mean, site review will take care of size and everything. I mean, if we can't get it in there, we just go somewhere else. Ola Garland: Aren't there too many unknowns though? Commissioner Mosby: Well- Ola Garland: He doesn't know what he's going to put on it. He doesn't know- Madelyn Grayson: Ms. Garland- President Fanello: I need for you to come to the microphone please. Ola Garland: Are there not several unknowns there, though? He doesn't know what he's going to put on it. He doesn't know what he's going to park on it. He doesn't...there's too many unknowns. That's what I said, if it is rezoned, then he can do whatever, you know? Beverly Behme: (Inaudible. Mike not on.) James Adler: I think, to Ms. Garland, I would just like to say that the rezoning is not going to permit me to put anything I want on that site. The rezoning only means I have the opportunity to put a building on there, you know, and use it in a C-4 classification. If I can't get a building on there like that, it's a dead issue. I mean, it's a vacant lot, at that point. Commissioner Mosby: Well- Ola Gardner: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Commissioner Mosby: -I was going to say, no, it's a C-4 vacant lot, which what is it, 227 uses? James Adler: Right, but if I can't get a building on it. I mean, my use is for a contractor shop. If I can't put a shop on it, we've just got to go find another piece of ground. Commissioner Mosby: I understand that, but then you have a piece of property that is zoned C-4 that somebody can come along and put anything on it they want. I mean, that's- James Adler: If it will fit. I mean, if it will fit, yeah. Commissioner Mosby: I have no more questions. President Fanello: Okay. The board would entertain a motion. Commissioner Mosby: Is there any other remonstrators- President Fanello: Oh, I'm sorry. Commissioner Mosby: -present? Or anybody that wants to speak? President Fanello: Any other remonstrators? Or anyone else who would like to speak to this rezoning? Commissioner Mosby: I'll make a motion to adopt VC-7-2002, and call the roll. President Fanello: Second to the motion. Roll call vote. Commissioner Mosby? Commissioner Mosby: I have a problem with this rezoning due to the fact that I don't think the piece of ground is big enough to do what the petitioner is wanting to do. Once we rezone this piece of ground to C-4, it's going to be a commercial piece of property, which, in turn, will allow any of the 200 plus uses that could be used on this piece of property. It doesn't necessarily have to be a property that you are going to put a building on, you could put a go cart track, you could put anything else you wanted on there. Due to the fact that I don't think it's big enough to house what the petitioner is wanting to do, for his contractor's shop, I'm going to vote no. President Fanello: And I vote no. Zoning does not pass. Is there any other business to be brought before the Rezoning Board? Beverly Behme: And, Kevin, you've met Brad? Okay. President Fanello: Entertain a motion to adjourn. Commissioner Mosby: There being no further business to come before the Zoning Board, I make a motion to adjourn. President Fanello: Second. We will start Drainage in about five minutes then. The meeting was adjourned at 7:33
p.m.
Those in Attendance:
APPROVAL:
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