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Rezoning Board April 19, 2001
President Mosby: Our attorney is out
of the room. We will go ahead and call to order the Rezoning meeting of
the Board of Commissioners for Vanderburgh County, April 19th,
2001.
President Mosby: First order of business, approval of minutes of the previous meeting. Commissioner Fanello: I will move approval. Commissioner Mourdock: Second. President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second. So ordered.
President Mosby: First readings, we have none. Which brings us to third and final readings. Commissioner Mourdock: For the sake of convenience, for all in the room, or, perhaps, for the petitioner, Jeannie Johnson, I would move that we take what is listed as item number five and make it item number two, so that the other, I think, the longer part of this meeting will be items two through four, so if we move item five up it might expedite things slightly. President Mosby: I have a motion to move item E up under item A. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: And a second. So
ordered. Third and final readings. Oh, okay, I am used to saying third
from the city, we do second and third.
President Mosby: Final readings, VC-5-2001, petitioner, Steve Wilcop, address 2200 S. Greenriver Road, request R-1 to C-4. Second will be VC-1-2001, petitioner, Jeannie Johnson, address 5115 Millersburg Road, request Agricultural to C-4, Section 4. B will be VC-4-2001, petitioner, Three I Properties LLC, address 12700 Old State Road, request Ag to C-4 with use and development commitment , C will be VC-3-2001, petitioner, Three I Properties LLC, address 601 East Boonville-New Harmony Road, request Ag to C-4 with use and development commitment , D, VC-2-2001, petitioner, Three I Properties LLC, address 600 East Boonville-New Harmony Road, request Ag and R-1 to C-4 with use and development. Barbara Cunningham: Steve Wilcox is going from Ag to C-4, and that said R-1 to C-4, so you might want to correct that because he is going Agricultural to C-4. The other petitioner, Jeannie Johnson, is also going, I think, those were mixed up, and she is also, she is going from Ag to C-4 with a use and development commitment, okay? President Mosby: Okay. Barbara Cunningham: The rest of them are going (inaudible). Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, so state again the clarification- President Mosby: B will- Commissioner Mourdock: VC-5-2001, which is Steve Wilcop on South Greenriver Road, should be Ag to C-4? President Mosby: Ag to C-4. Barbara Cunningham: Uh-huh. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. President Mosby: It's Wilcox, not
Wilcop. There was a typo on here. Then E is Ag to C-4 with use and development.
So first, we will have Steve Wilcox.
President Mosby: Oh, I'm sorry, that's right, we have to swear in. Commissioner Mourdock: Before you do that, as we start the procedures here, we realize that there are many petitioners here tonight, or a few petitioners, many remonstrators here tonight, and we do ask that when you come to the microphone, state your name and address for the record. If you wish to speak, you must come to the microphone. All of our minutes are kept on tape, so we need everything said verbatim, and also if you have someone walk to the microphone and they say exactly what you intended to say, it is not necessary for you to walk up there and repeat it all over again for us. We can pick up on that stuff, so try and be concise and to the point. Thank You. Barbara Cunningham: Steve Wilcox is requesting a change in zoning from Ag to C-4 for the property located at 2200 South Greenriver Road. This .29 acre site, 73' X 8' X 171' is located on the east side of Greenriver Road between Pollack and Earl Avenue. It is a mid-block plot on South Greenriver Road and the submitted site plan indicates that the proposed 24' curb cut on to Greenriver Road. Approval of the access will be determined by site review upon submission of file plans for the development of the site. County Engineer, John Stoll, states, due to the dimension of this lot, large trucks will not be able to access this site. This may restrict the types of delivery trucks that use this site, and delivery trucks will not be allowed to stop and unload on Greenriver Road or to back to or from Greenriver Road. It is a request to C-4 for the stated proposed construction of a new motorcycle sales and service business on the vacant lot. If approved, adequate quality site design should be incorporated and, I think, Mr. Wilcox has been working on that since the last Area Plan Commission meeting. I hope he has, that is what the board asked him to do, is to work with the neighbors to see if they could come up with an agreeable solution. The year 2015 conceptual land use map and the comp plan designates a contained area of commercial development at the Pollack Avenue-Greenriver Road intersection. The South Greenriver Road plan of 1992 also raised the possibility of increased commercial development on both Pollack and Greenriver Road as a result of interchange and road widening. The site is adjacent to the shopping center at the southeast corner of the intersection. In recent years there have been a number of commercial zonings of property fronting on Greenriver Road between Pollack and the interchange. South of this proposed C-4 site is a structure rezoned as CO-1 in 1994 for a daycare facility. This is a proposed change in zoning to C-4, which although inconsistent with the overall plan for the area for the comprehensive plan, is consistent with the adjacent zoning and use within the same block frontage on Greenriver Road. If the lot is approved for commercial development, screenings and setbacks must be provided and maintained for protection of the adjacent residential development to the east. Any commercial use adjacent to residential should incorporate quality site design and adequate buffers. President Mosby: Mr. Wilcox. Do we need to swear? Commissioner Mourdock: Yes. President Mosby: The- Barbara Cunningham: Well, usually that's what we do, and they usually swear me in too. It is up to you. President Mosby: Yeah, I just prefer to do it all at once. Barbara Cunningham: That's fine. I will swear in with Mr. Wilcox then. Commissioner Mourdock: All those who will be testifying on this matter do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Barbara Cunningham: I do. Steve Wilcox: I do. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Steve Wilcox: Hi, I am Steve Wilcox. I am planning... I had a meeting with the Caring Friends Daycare, they are the ones that really pose concern with the noise and different things about what is going on there. We met last week at a meeting at Caring Friends Daycare, and we were talking about moving the building over a little further and making it a little smaller building than what is actually shown in the drawing. So we are going to cut the square footage down some. I just want to give them a little more side yard there too, so they can open their fence to get in and out. (Inaudible) their privacy fence up with (inaudible) to make sure that it buffers the sounds and to keep the noise. The actual garage entrance will face the opposite direction, it faces towards the video store, or between the building there. The noise definitely won't be on their side. Anybody pulling back in will be on the opposite side of the building. That would keep the noise down, and other concerns that they had were part of the flooding and stuff, and that's...they've got a drainage ditch there, but that is something that we're going to have to see on the development part of it. As long as we can make the ground low enough, so that the drainage will work , that would be good, and not flood their property out. Commissioner Mourdock: Mr. Wilcox, you said that you were going to put up a shrubbery as a fence- Steve Wilcox: Well, we are going to put up a fence also with some shrubbery up. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, it is two things? Steve Wilcox: Yes. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Steve Wilcox: To help absorb some of the noise, keep the noise down from people pulling in and out. President Mosby: Any other questions? Steve Wilcox: There are not going to be any other doors or windows on the other side towards the daycare too, just to make sure that there is no way for the kids to get in that side, or anything like that. Barbara Cunningham: Mr. President, one thing that we did want to adequately get on record is that since this is a narrow frontage lot, it will be difficult if the use changes, the motorcycle use will not cause, you know, as many large delivery trucks to come, but if it should change at a later date, what we want on the record is saying there shall be no backing in of large delivery trucks off of Greenriver Road. Commissioner Mourdock: As was mentioned at the APC meeting, the only types of delivery trucks that you see, Mr. Wilcox, are UPS size type trucks. Understand Barbara's dilemma, that this zoning goes with you if you sell it, it is still whatever it is. For the record, there will be no backing up of trucks into this property. President Mosby: Any other comments or questions? Any remonstrators wanting to speak? Pat Fark: I'm Pat Fark, I am a resident at 2224 A Ponderosa Place in Evansville, but I represent the board of directors from Caring Friends Inc., which does business as Caring Friends Daycare Ministries at 2216 South Greenriver Road. We did have a meeting, as Mr. Wilcox mentioned. One of our concerns is knowing that the motorcycle shop may not always be there, or it may not, for some reason, be built. So our concern is, if the zoning is changed that some of the things can be put in place that whomever would develop that property would provide adequate green area and protection for anyone in the neighborhood. Because as it was mentioned, it is only required on the east side, where there is a residence, it doesn't say anything about on the south side. The other thing is the drainage, because of Greenriver Road being extremely high and the storm sewer that is on that property is higher than the level of the ground on both pieces of property there that they are looking at and our property, so with that, there is just really a concern as to whomever develops that, that it is done properly so that the run off does not end up flooding the area, whether it be our playground or under our buildings. Since our last meeting before you also, I found out that the neighbor to the east has a well that is very close to the property line, and since we don't use our well any longer, we had forgotten about the other areas having wells. That is another concern as far as any run off, whether it be chemicals or whatever, you know, there could be contaminants from that because of the well water that they are using. I don't have anything else to add. Commissioner Mourdock: Ms. Fark? Ms. Fark, does the flooding problem you mentioned, or the potential, is that something that is occurring now? With the elevation of Greenriver? Is that a problem? Pat Fark: It's not as much now, because we have graded our property, where the playground area is to keep that water running away, which was a great expense of ours after Greenriver was developed. That property there at 2200 is lower, considerably lower, than the street, and it is also lower than where the storm sewer outlet, or inlet, is placed, because it is on the grassy part on the east side of the sidewalk. The one that I am referring to is not on the street itself. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. President Mosby: Any other questions or comments? Did you want a couple of minutes to rebut anything that she might have said? Steve Wilcox: As far as chemicals and stuff like that and the run off, most all of our chemicals will be stored in containers, and we do have a pick up that picks up the chemicals and hauls off anything that would be any kind of a waste, so that nothing would be dumped in the drains or anything like that. Nothing sits outside as far as a chemical (inaudible). There is a company here in town to haul the chemicals off periodically when you fill up your tank. I don't think that it will really be much of a drainage problem as far as the wells and stuff and having to worry about them. Commissioner Mourdock: You realize, that before you file for your building permit, that you have to have your drainage plan, your grading plan, and all of that submitted, and it all has to be approved? President Mosby: Any other comments or questions? The chair will entertain a motion. Commissioner Mourdock: I appreciate the fact, I know that sitting through APC that there were a number of questions that were brought up and the fact that the two of you did get together and talk about this, it sounds like Mr. Wilcox has been somewhat accommodating in reducing the size of the building and also rearranging the building and committing to doing the fence and the shrubbery. As Mrs. Cunningham put on the record, obviously, the truck restriction is something that is going to be there, so with the realization, too, that the drainage issue is something that has got to be done, or handled properly before the building permit can be done, I will move approval of VC-5-2000 from Ag to C-4. Commissioner Fanello: I will second.
President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. Roll call. Commissioner Mourdock. Commissioner Mourdock: Yes. Commissioner Fanello: Yes. President Mosby: Commissioner Mosby.
Aye. Three ayes and no nays, VC-5-2001 is hereby approved.
President Mosby: Next VC-1-2001, petitioner, Jenny Johnson. Sam Byers: My name is- Barbara Cunningham: Jeannie Johnson is requesting a change in zoning for a property located at 5115 Millersburg Road. Ms. Johnson, and maybe Mr. Johnson, is requesting that two acres of her eight acre site on the south side of Millersburg just east of Greenriver Road, be rezoned from Ag to C-4 with a use and development commitment that limits the use of the site to a plant and shrub nursery. A nursery is a permitted use in an existing agricultural district, and the C-4 classification is required if there is to be sales of related items not grown or raised on this site. At the Area Plan Commission the Johnson's did tell us that they plan to bring in some things on the site for sale, and they also plan to , I think you said, approximately 1.9 acres for the C-4 commercial classification and the rest they plan to build the nursery stock on. It indicates, Mr. Johnson indicates, all utilities are available to the site except sewers. The site is served by a septic system, and we did discuss at Area Plan Commission that a commercial septic system can be an expensive proposition, and the Johnsons will have to get a commercial septic unless, the state says what they need, they will have to get that from the state, and that will have to be done before a permit is issued. Millersburg is a narrow rural residential street, if approved for commercial use, the access must be installed for site review recommendations to commercial standards, and access and parking must be paved with a hardened sealed surface. Due to the absence of sewers and the existing agricultural land in the area, the comprehensive plan did designate this area to remain agricultural with scattered residential uses. However, a plant nursery is considered more of an agricultural, if any use is to be done, a plant nursery would be considered more agricultural uses. Surrounding the area is completely agricultural and residential, and adjacent to this proposed C-4 is a proposed site for a church, and that petition is, for the church, is scheduled to be heard by the Board of Zoning Appeals at their meeting on April 19, 2001. We talked again that the agricultural classification is considered a residential district and that it permits single family development of the same size and intensity as the R-1 zoning classification. We also spoke of quality site design and buffering must be utilized if the commercial development is to occur in or adjacent to any residential. Commissioner Mourdock: Then again, all of those wishing to testify on this particular zoning please raise your hand. Do you swear that the testimony that you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Sam Byers: Yes. My name is Sam Byers, I am Jeannie Johnson's husband. I guess the only comments I have would be basically the same ones I made at APC, that Millersburg Road is posted for heavy trucks to be used. She had mentioned that where it is a narrow, residential street, but it's, after speaking with Mr. Stoll at the Engineering Department, it is designated for big trucks. Commissioner Mourdock: The one issue, Mr. Byers, that came up at APC also was regarding the placement of off site signs. In other words, signs or billboards that might be used to advertise some business other than your business, and, if I recall, you committed not to have those signs in place, is that correct? Sam Byers: I must have misunderstood you. I thought that I couldn't have a sign. Barbara Cunningham: That's right, he can't have a sign. (Inaudible) Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. That's even broader than I was hoping for. Sam Byers: Is that because it is something to do with the type of zoning that I've requested? Barbara Cunningham: No. Sam Byers: Or is this something that has been done away with- Barbara Cunningham: It's the type of zoning that you want to put the sign in is closest to the residential area. Sam Byers: So the existing signs were like the surface of the grandfather- Barbara Cunningham: That goes back about 40 or 50 years, or 30 years, something like that. Sam Byers: Very good. President Mosby: Any questions or comments? Commissioner Mourdock: Do you want to see if anybody else was here to speak to- President Mosby: Is anybody else here who would like to speak to the petition on Millersburg Road (inaudible)? Commissioner Fanello: I will move approval. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll second.
President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. Commissioner Mourdock. Commissioner Mourdock: Yes. Commissioner Fanello: Yes. President Mosby: Commissioner Mosby, aye. There being three ayes and no nays, this document is advised to be adopted. Sam Byers: Thank you very much.
President Mosby: VC-4-2001, petitioner Three I Properties LLC, 12700 Old State Road. Commissioner Mourdock: Before we start on them, there are actually three different petitions here, is there a recommendation, Barbara, as to how we deal with these? Barbara Cunningham: How we did it, if this is agreeable to the Commissioners, what we did in Plan Commission is we just talked about all three at one time, we had three separate votes, because they all three are adjacent to each other and I think that it would be easier, so many of them have the same use and development commitment and that kind of thing, so it might be easier to discuss all three. What we did, I think, was do the top, the north two, the north of Boonville-New Harmony, those two together, and then we did the south. President Mosby: 600 and 601 together? Barbara Cunningham: 15 and 17 together. Yeah, 600 Boonville and then 12700 Old State together, those are both on the north side. If you will show them on the map, show where those are. President Mosby: I know where they are at. Barbara Cunningham: Oh, okay, but it is up to you. Is that how you want to do it, Mr. Mosby? President Mosby: Well, I don't know, because there is a property between 600 and 12700 that you are not rezoning. Les Shively: That is correct, but we will note in the record here, the way that we have entered into the agreement for acquisition of that property, although it is not part of the request this evening. President Mosby: I understand. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, but, again, to clarify, just point to the three if you would, Les. VC-4-2001 at 12700 Old State, which one is that? Les Shively: VC-2?-- Commissioner Mourdock: 12700 Old State? Les Shively: There is three, there is two, and one would be down in here. Commissioner Mourdock: But three two and one isn't helping me to identify which one is- Barbara Cunningham: I can do it. Les Shively: Two- Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, that 2001- Barbara Cunningham: Two and four are north of- Commissioner Mourdock: VC-4-2001- Barbara Cunningham: Two and four are north and three is that one in the green. Commissioner Mourdock: Two and four are north and three is south. Two and four are north. Commissioner Fanello: Three is south. Barbara Cunningham: Three is the green area there. President Mosby: Yeah, this one and this one, and they are not rezoning where the white is, and then okay that is the corner of Old State and Boonville-New Harmony, okay. However you want to do it. Barbara Cunningham: If that's okay, let's do two and do the north side two first, two and four. All three petitions that we are looking at include similar use and development commitments, and all three are expansions of recently rezoned C-4 zoned undeveloped properties all on the east side of Highway 41 north. In December of the year 2000, C-4 zoning was approved for an approximately eight acre site at the north west corner of Highway 41 and Boonville-New Harmony Road, which is designated in yellow on the map right now, and a two acre site at the south west corner, which is also designated in yellow at the bottom. Applicants are proposing to add 1.8 acres to the two acre site on the south, making an area of 3.8 available for commercial development. They are also proposing to add eight acres to the eight acre site on the north side of Boonville-New Harmony, extending the C-4 development all the way to Old State Road. Applicants are also proposing to rezone the one acre, which is kind of an orangey color there on the map, the one acre site is at the north west corner of Old State and Boonville-New Harmony, the C-4 for commercial development. If these two rezonings on the north side of Boonville-New Harmony are approved, the result will be a 17 plus acre site available for commercial development. If all three rezoning petitions are approved, there will remain one single residence on Boonville-New Harmony Road completely surrounded by C-4 commercial development, and that is the area, Mr. Mosby, that you were talking about that is in the white, it's that location, because the issues pertaining to the north side of Boonville-New Harmony vary somewhat from those of the properties on the south side of Boonville-New Harmony. The comments regarding the three proposed rezoning petitions on your agenda are, as we said, split into two separate discussions, and we are considering the north side first. The two petitions for rezoning on the north side of Boonville-New Harmony will require separate votes. As we had said, on the north side, these proposed rezonings with the eight acres rezoned in December of the year 2000, will extend commercial development from Highway 41 all the way to Old State Road. Highway 41 is a primary arterial controlled access thoroughfare, leaving the only access available to this site from the Boonville-New Harmony and/or Old State Road. The entrance to this development should be as far to the east from Highway 41 as possible. This (inaudible) intersection at times experiences heavy traffic congestion, especially during special events at the nearby 4-H Center, and will experience increased traffic as the commercial project to the west develops across Highway 41. That property was rezoned to the west along Highway 41, that property was rezoned a few years ago, and it's the site, it's adjacent, it's on the same side as the 4-H Center over there, and it is the site now of the new Buehler's that's going in at that corner between the 4-H Center and the railroad, between the railroad track and Highway 41. If this development is to have access on to Old State Road, a residential local road, improvements on this road could be needed to address the traffic impact. The comprehensive plan calls for the road improvements needed to accommodate development traffic to be constructed with the development. According to the comprehensive plan, it is essential for development proposals along major arterials to be accompanied with commitments to construct the infrastructure improvements necessary to accommodate site generated traffic. The use and development commitment that you have in your packet, included as part of this petition, commits to a traffic impact study and implementation of all requirements are recommendations of that study. County Engineer, John Stoll, states that, the use and development commitment satisfactorily addresses the traffic impact of this development since it requires the developer to prepare a traffic impact study, and to implement the recommendations of the study. When the property adjacent to the west of this site was rezoned to C-4 by the County Commissioners in the year 2000, the rezoning petition was consistent with the comprehensive plan which identified the north west corner of Boonville-New Harmony and Highway 41 intersection for commercial use. These two proposed rezoning requests seek to expand that commercial area eastward to Old State Road. The comprehensive plan designates the area along Old State Road as residential, confining the commercial designation to the Highway 41 corridor. Surrounding is a rural, agricultural, residential area with the undeveloped C-4 property to the west. Quality site design could lessen impact on surrounding residents and farm operation. The use and development commitment, which is included as part of this rezoning petition, prohibits billboards and some commercial recreational service and storage uses and addresses lighting, buffering and road improvements. This use and development commitment is substantially the same as the one submitted for the adjacent eight acre site, which was rezoned in the year 2000. December of 2000. Commissioner Mourdock: Just to clarify something, Barbara, I think that you misspoke. You said that when the County Commission acted previously in rezoning commercial on the north west corner of Boonville-New Harmony and 41, it is actually the north east. Barbara Cunningham: North east. Commissioner Mourdock: That on the north west is still- Barbara Cunningham: Is church. Commissioner Mourdock: Right, yeah. Barbara Cunningham: There is a church across the way. There is a church at that location. Commissioner Mourdock: All those who wish to testify for or against this rezoning please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth in your testimony, so help you God? Les Shively: I do, sir. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Les Shively: Mr. President and members of the Board of Commissioners, my name is Les Shively, representing Three I LLC. The principals of Three I are John Habermel, Gene Hahn and Dave Remmert. Two of the principals are here this evening, Mr. Hahn and Mr. Habermel are here this evening, along with Jim Farney, he is our engineer of Bernardin Lochmueller and Associates. The principals of this group, with the exception of Mr. Habermel was not involved in this particular project, are the same ones that did the west side development with the O'Charley's, the cinema plex, Home Depot, the Old National Bank new branch is located. I think, that Mr. Mosby was involved, his role on City Council is probably very familiar with that project, as well as Mr. Mourdock with parts that were within the county. That project has worked very well, it has, in fact, been a model for development for this community. Let me start for a moment and address the comments regarding the 41 corridor area. The area which we see rezoned, would also include the area that had been rezoned in December of 2000, extends from U.S. 41 to Old State Road. We are not going any further than Old State Road which would be west of that right-of-way. Mr. Farney prepared this exhibit, and the reason I think that it is significant is that it allows us to see from a practical standpoint when we talk about the 41 north corridor, what we are talking about. In pink is the area that Mrs. Cunningham referred to, the area that was rezoned about a year and a half ago. That is where the Buehler's Buy Low is being presently constructed. From Highway 41 to the railroad tracks that separate the 4-H property from this property is about 750'. From 41 to Old State Road is approximately 915'. So what we are talking about when we are talking about a corridor, with 41 being the center of the corridor, we are at a comparable depth, if you will, as to what has already been zoned and developed on the west side. Moreover, where the railroad forms the natural end, if you will, demarkation line of where that corridor ends, likewise, so does Old State Road. The fact that Old State Road has formed that demarkation line to the east, as evidenced by the fact that if you go a little further north you have the Busler's, I know that Old State Road kind of tapers and is a little narrower up here, but Busler's is there between Old State Road and 41, as well as, further to the south where we have what used to be the old Grumpy Pal Motel, it is now, I guess, a foreign car repair facility and in to the side along with a 100' plus cellular tower. So what we're doing here is consistent with what has been defined years and years ago as this 41 corridor area for commercial on the east side. Again, it is comparable with what has already been established on the west side. The use and development commitment that we are utilizing here with the exception of the legal descriptions, is identical to a use and development commitment presented in conjunction with a rezoning request that was approved for the initial stage of this project last year. Just let me highlight some of the important parts of this use and development commitment. First of all, it, and I counted again, Mr. Mourdock, just to make sure I am correct, it prohibits 39 uses under the C-4 classification which includes billboards. We have also made it clear that this will prohibit truck stop type facilities, or facilities that any way service large 18 wheeler type vehicles. In fact, what we, our plan for this property, the clients plan for this property is to the north a large box type retail facility, preferably a retail grocery facility, a bank branch and a sit down restaurant facility. It has always been Three I's intention, in order to develop this area, it was always their intention to utilize all 17 acres for this development. What they did in December was just the beginning, and it's important to really look at this particular map that Bernardin Lochmueller prepared to get an idea of why the 17 acres are necessary. First of all, we want to have more than just minimum off street parking. We want to maximize off street parking for obvious marketing reasons, desirability for tenants, but also so that all of our traffic is self contained on the property. Also, there are drainage issues that must be addressed. I am going to come back to the use and development commitment in a moment, but we are showing here the retention or the existing lake to be used as a retention basin for drainage. Also, I would note that the use and development commitment, that anything that we do with an understanding of whether we subdivide or what have you, before we can pull any permits, including improvement location permits, we will have to go to the County Drainage Board, which is you all, and seek your approval for our drainage plan. Between the April 4th meeting and this evening, we were able to acquire this property in white which is owned by Mr. and Mrs. Broerman. The acquisition of that property is contingent, by the way, on the approval of this rezoning request, will allow us now to have land on Boonville-New Harmony Road on the north side, all the way from 41 to Old State Road, and that will allow us to improve that right-of-way, which as the staff field report notes, it needs improvement today, whether this is ever rezoned or developed. Because of the uses of the 4-H Center and other development going on in that particular area, this will compliment and mirror what the developers on the west side have already done, and undertake presently with regard to the improvements of Boonville-New Harmony Road on the west side of 41. Also, what this allows us to do, and as you recall the staff field report, the incorporation of comments of the County Highway Engineer, and EUTS, saying it's important to move this entrance off of Boonville-New Harmony Road and into the property as far east as possible. It allows us to do that. Mr. Farney, how many feet back from the intersection would this set? This additional piece of property? 600' would (inaudible) the standards and requirements proposed by the County Engineer and the Evansville Urban Transportation Study. We have no plans to go to the north. We have no plans to go any further east. The property to the east has been part, which was acquired in two sections by the Rescue Mission, one parcel in 1921, I think, the other parcel in 1937, is owned by the Rescue Mission. It is part of the Camp Reveal properties. We have no intention of doing anything with that property that is owned by the Rescue Mission which I assume has been part of their ministry for 40 or 50 years, and will continue to be a part of their ministry for 40 or 50 years. To give you an idea of where this property sits, as you are looking from Ridgeview, in close proximity to Ridgeview Heights Subdivision. The reason I am targeting Ridgeview Heights Subdivision, many of the people you will hear from this evening that express concerns about this rezoning that were present at the Plan Commission, live in this particular subdivision. If you look in that direction, and these are the homes right here on the bottom, are the home closest, the homes in Ridgeview Heights that are closest to the subject property. The first thing that is closest in proximity is the lake which we show on our plan, which will remain. The closest building will actually be way over here, so you have a substantial distance from the nearest property in Ridgeview Subdivision to any improvements in the area that we are seeking rezoning. As I made it clear a moment ago, this lake as depicted in the photograph will remain and will be a visual buffer, as well as the trees that are presently there that are on the east side of Boonville-New Harmony Road, which we have no control over and we can only assume that, excuse me, I mean Old State Road. Yes, ma'am. Commissioner Fanello: I have bad eyes, so, I am going to ask you to bring that closer. Commissioner Mourdock: Do you mean on the west side of Old State? The trees that are- Les Shively: The trees that are on the east side- Commissioner Mourdock: On the Rescue Mission property? Les Shively: We have no- Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, I just wanted to be sure that is what you were saying. Les Shively: -I just want to be clear on that. Here is a view of one of the properties... Mr. Habermel, one of the principals, lives in Ridgeview. He lives next door to one of the folks who was present at the Area Plan Commission meeting of April 4th that remonstrated. Here is a view from his back yard looking toward the subject property. Here is another view, a more panoramic view. Again, looking in the same direction. As we stand close to this point right here, stand approximately right here looking towards Ridgeview Subdivision, here is a view, here is another view from approximately the same angle, except looking a little farther towards the east. This photograph, again, is across from this point right here and standing on the east side of Old State Road looking towards the area where Ridgeview Subdivision is. As you can see, all you can see is trees, you cannot see any of the homes. None of that will, in fact, change because that's not property we control. That is property that is controlled by the owners of the property of lots in Ridgeview or the Rescue Mission. Let me go through the use and development commitment just briefly. In addition to the 39 uses prohibited in the billboards and truck stops, we are also making it a requirement that before we can pull any permits, improvement location permits, that we have to complete a traffic impact study for the entire area. Not just what we are rezoning this evening, that would include what we had rezoned before, the whole 17 acres. That impact study will have to be completed and presented and reviewed by the appropriate governmental officials before we go to site review. In addition, we have made provisions for cut off lighting. In other words, so that all the lighting will not bleed over to the adjacent properties. The lighting provisions are set forth in the use and development commitment. All drainage, as I indicated before, our drainage plans will have to be approved by the County Drainage Board before we pull any permits. We will create a buffer of 15' around those areas of our property that are still adjacent to properties zoned residential. We have committed to all of that in a use and development commitment, and as Mrs. Cunningham has said, it is all enforceable with the exception of the aesthetic, the subjective language. The fact that we leave a drain, and we provide the buffer as we say, that objective criteria is something that becomes enforceable as part of the use and development commitment. As we did in December of last year, by the way, that process actually started in September, meeting with neighbors, we, again, with this particular proposal met, started meeting with the neighbors, we sent out about 18 letters to about 18 land owners, we had a meeting with them on March 7, 2001, we showed them the maps you are seeing here this evening, we showed them the use and development commitment, we asked for their input, we sent them follow up letters for information they had requested, and also requested from them additional information. The land owners most directly affected by this project have been or will be acquired. Those are the properties that run along Boonville-New Harmony Road and properties back in this area here. Going back to the definition of the 41 corridor, that is why we think it is logical and makes sense to define that as extending to the west line of Old State Road ,because, the way we are developing this project, there won't be any residential properties left here that will be next to a commercial development. We've made provisions to acquire all of that, so that no land owner is sitting right up next door to a commercial development. We think this is good planning, and , moreover, I know I have mentioned this before, but I want to emphasize this again, it will come back again when we talk of the south side of Boonville-New Harmony Road, but this area, for example, right up here, the only reason we are rezoning this is because this lake becomes a retention pond used for the development we are rezoning. There will never be a building there. That lake as you see it will remain in place and will hide from any one who lives to the north east. They will see the same view, the same lake as they have before. When this project is completed, here is what Vanderburgh County will have, the investment in the development of this property and land acquisition will be approximately $5.4 million, and that is before any buildings. If we are fortunate, and we believe we will be successful, to establish a restaurant, a bank branch facility, a grocery store facility, we anticipate those building improvements to be approximately $8.5 million. So you are looking at here close to a $14 million project and investment in the tax base of Vanderburgh County. We believe this is consistent with the comprehensive plan. It will allow needed improvements, that are needed right now, to Boonville-New Harmony Road to occur. It will provide for an orderly development of this property, and if you look, and I know that many of you have served on the Plan Commission before, but the last four or five years if you look at all of the subdivisions that have come into place, where have they occurred? The northern part of the county. The number of subdivisions is in high double digits. The people are moving north. People want to have banks, they want to have grocery stores, they want to have restaurants in close proximity to where they live. This particular project meets that demand without any negative impact on any surrounding property owner, while at the same time providing necessary infrastructure improvements that the county needs now and increases the county tax base. It is a good project, and we ask for your thoughtful consideration. I will be more than happy to answer any questions you have. Also with me, as I said before, Mr. Farney of Bernardin Lochmueller Associates. Commissioner Mourdock: Les, would you clarify, there was some discussion at the APC meeting about traffic coming out on to Old State Road- Les Shively: Yes, sir. Commissioner Mourdock: -What is the current status of that? Obviously, your plan shows that, is that your intention? Les Shively: If we don't have to do that, by virtue of our traffic impact study we talked about at the Plan Commission, if that is not a requirement placed on us by the traffic impact study, and ultimately by EUTS, then that particular access point would be eliminated. Our impact study is not done now, and, as you recall, the question Mr. Hatfield asked of me, he says, your clients willingness to drop that is dependent upon what site review imposes upon you. So where... and Hahn's in a dilemma, we've made our project subject to an impact study because we don't want to exasperate the traffic situation. We want to improve it and do it right. That study is not done, but I know there are some neighbors that may have some concerns about ingress and egress and Old State Road, and if the impact study and the EUTS folks and John Stoll says that we can live with that, then we are certainly going to try to do it. One way to make sure that the neighbors have input on that issue, which is not fully developed yet, because we don't have our impact study, we would commit here this evening, that when we have that study, and do go to site review for approval of our ingress and egress points that we would give notice to those folks here this evening that designate that they do want to receive notice so that they can play a role at that site review committee meeting, to give their input, either pro or con about an access point on Old State Road. It would be inappropriate for me to say, absolutely, no, no way, because- Commissioner Mourdock: You could be mandated to do it. Les Shively: -could be mandated to do it. I don't want to make a representation that later I have to come back and say, gee, I didn't want to mislead you, I want to be up front, and so the public...not the public so much, but the folks that are out there on Old State Road have input. When we have that study done and we submit it and are ready to have our access approved, we will give notice to them so that they can come to that meeting and voice what concerns they may have about an access point on Old State Road. Commissioner Mourdock: Is it your clients preference to have it? Les Shively: Our clients preference is to have a project that works. I mean, I don't think that we are going to go out there and lobby for this, but, you know, if, in fact, the impact study says that it is necessary for the appropriate flow of traffic, for safety reasons, and EUTS picks up on that and requires that, I mean, we want a quality project. If you look at the west side, substantial amounts of acreage were committed to frontage road, I think unprecedented amounts of land were committed to frontage roads to make that work. Obviously, Mr. Hahn and his partners would have much rather sold that land as lots, but they put in that frontage road system mainly because it was required of them to have a safe and workable transportation system based upon the traffic impact studies that were done out there. The requirements not only of EUTS, but if you recall in that situation, Mr. Mourdock, we also had to please the Indiana Department of Transportation. Commissioner Mourdock: Right, and in the prior zoning, the one that is at the extreme southwest corner, I'm sorry, well it's at the southwest corner of what you have got here, where it says Lot 2, you've got a building- Les Shively: Yes, sir. Commissioner Mourdock: -right there. Granted that is already zoned, that is not here this evening. Les Shively: Yes, yes, you are correct. Commissioner Mourdock: Right, what is your plan for that, building wise? Les Shively: I think that is Lot 2, down to your right in the corner, the northeast corner of, is that the bank or the restaurant? John Habermel: I am John Habermel, 13200 Woodland Lane. That could be the bank, or it could be, we've had some interest from a sit down restaurant for that location. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, my point was that you had said earlier, Mr. Shively, that was not going to be a truck stop type thing, so, that is not a truck stop down there in what was previously zoned? Les Shively: That's right. Commissioner Mourdock: Is that true of Lot 5 as well, the one on the south side? Les Shively: That's right. These are the same use and development commitments we made in the year 2000. We've appropriated that type of use for this property here, here, and now we've applied for all of this property here in the green and the orange. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. President Mosby: Any other questions? If not, we have some remonstrators that want to speak, and I will start with Steve Bohleber, attorney. Do we have a list of people that want to speak? Commissioner Mourdock: There was a clip board being passed around. I saw people signing it. Where did the clip board get to? Madelyn Grayson: I've got that here. Commissioner Mourdock: Just to clarify for us, Mr. Bohleber, do you mind if we identify whomever you are representing here in the audience? President Mosby: Isn't it the neighbors? Madelyn Grayson: This is just attendance. Steve Bohleber: My name is Steve Bohleber, I represent many of the residents of an area commonly know as Ridgeview Heights. I don't pretend to represent everyone. About a week ago, I was retained by a dozen or so people to speak on their behalf. President Mosby: Steve, can I interrupt you for a minute? I've got a list of everybody, I guess, that is in the room. Steve Bohleber: They were asked to sign in by someone. President Mosby: I need something passed around, just sign it if you want to speak. Steve Bohleber: I think the instructions were for everyone to sign in, and that is what occurred. President Mosby: If you want to speak, the pad coming around, just sign it. Steve Bohleber: Of those individuals that I have spoken with, we've tried to confine the comments on behalf of the neighborhood to myself and two spokespersons for the neighbors, Jo Wilson and Ron Grover. There are a lot of other people here this evening, some of whom I have not had the pleasure of speaking to, but all of whom, I think, or many of whom are opposed to this. If you are here to remonstrate against this rezoning, would you stand, and if you are standing, would you raise your hand and wave? Or do both. My clients have grave concerns about the proposed rezoning, and the resulting commercial development of the 17 acres of property that is, basically, undeveloped green space, at this time, and residences. My part of the presentation this evening is going to be bifurcated or maybe trifurcated, I guess. I am here to introduce Jo Wilson and Ron Grover. They are going to address some of the issues that they addressed eloquently at the Plan Commission meeting. Then I would like to follow them with some observations concerning their comments in a broader sense, and I would like to speak to you about a very specific problem that is being faced by land regulators and zoning boards throughout the country, and has become the fodder of everything from Presidential campaigns down to the very lowest element of government. That's the concept known as urban sprawl. My client's spokespersons are going to speak out on a very personal basis, but what they are talking about, the concerns they have, can in the professional vernacular be described as sprawl. It can't be ignored. Anytime a governing body, such as yourself, is asked to create satellite areas of commercial, or even residential, development, far from the centers of established communities, there is an issue of sprawl. It has created tremendous problems around our country that we are just starting to address. I would like to talk in terms of what sprawl means and how it applies to this project. Before doing that, I would like to introduce Mrs. Wilson first, she has some prepared comments to make on behalf of herself and many of her neighbors, and then Mr. Grover. Then, if the chair would so permit, after they complete their presentations, I would like to return to the podium to speak in a broader sense about the issues they will be discussing with you, and then, perhaps, some other folks would want to speak as well. If I may defer to that procedure, I would turn the podium over to Jo Wilson at this time. Jo Wilson: Vanderburgh County Commissioners, I am Jo Wilson of 13250 Woodland Lane. You have seen our petition from the neighbors in this area, not just Ridgeview Heights, but across the lake, which is really adjacent to the proposed area that they are seeking to rezone. I have a map here, now I know that Mr. Mourdock has seen it at the Area Plan Commission , I wonder if the rest of you have seen it? An aerial map of a triangle out there in the county that shows the big wooded area? If you have not seen that, I would like to show it to you. The part that is marked here with an orange marker like this around here, is the area I am speaking of now. I am speaking of the area bounded by Old State Road, Browning Road, and Boonville-New Harmony Road. I have colored this area in with sort of cross bars pink to show you where the Three I Developers proposed to have this rezoned, and made into a commercial area. This along the highway, as you know, this darker part has already been rezoned, a little strip, here, but what I want to show you by means of this map, is to show you that this is a unique area. That it's a large wooded tract, and as I explained to the Area Plan Commissioners these little fuzzy things in here are the trees. As I say, this is a copy of an aerial photograph of this area. The parts that say HEL mean Highly Erodible Land, I had to ask that, so, I will tell you that. I want you to note that this is an immense wooded area for these days. The woman at the Soil Conservation Office said that to me, she said you don't see many wooded tracts like that still left today. Our subdivision is here, and you notice that the other subdivisions and houses around here are still at the perimeter, still at the perimeter of this unique wooded tract. It's a habitat for all kinds of animals; deer, raccoon, and it has an amazing variety of trees, of old timber still left there. I'm just trying to show you that this is a unique place. This unique place now is going to have, if the Three I Developers get there wish, is going to have a commercial shopping center across the road from where it begins. I think that is something to think about. I've lived in Scott Township since 1936. I lived on Browning Road as a girl, and now, as I told you, I live in Ridgeview Heights. When we were kids, we went to the part of that big woods that I have shown you on that aerial photograph, to pick wild flowers, to see the animals, and to gather leaves when we were studying that in school. The proposed rezoning would introduce urban sprawl next to the heart of this unique wooded tract. This tract and places around it should be preserved for the future as habitat. As far as it goes destroying the beauty of our neighborhood, I would like to introduce some pictures. Now all of these photographs were taken last Friday from the back and front yards of my friend and neighbor across the road, by the big lake that abuts up to the area that they want to rezone. What I've done, well (inaudible), I suppose. What? President Mosby: We are taping this. Jo Wilson: Oh, that's right, you did tell us that. Okay, on these pictures, I've put a purple line at Mrs. Joyce Hewitt's property line. She lives on the other side of Old State Road from me. This first picture shows the corner of her swimming pool, and her back yard, and the purple property line, then, in the middle of the picture shows you that beyond that and to the top of the picture, practically to the top of the picture, would be this area that they want to rezone commercial, put a shopping center with a lot of concrete and dumpsters and so on. I have other pictures of her backyard, and, I think, they are self explanatory. On the back I tell you something about the view, but to begin with, I am telling you that these first ones are her backyard, and then this one with Mrs. Hewitt's chair and table sitting out there is marked for her property line, and this would be her view now. I have several others and, again, the purple line shows her property line, and beyond that, as I say, to the top of the picture, in most cases, except where marked differently, this would be where a commercial concreted area with lots of traffic and ugly stuff would be. Now, if you look at these pictures and think about what she would see, and, incidentally, you know, her view would encompass concreted area and parking lots and so on. I would like to contradict an earlier speaker for the petitioners for rezoning, she will not have the same view as she had before if this is allowed to happen. She will not. Mrs. Hewitt is not here tonight because she has a sore leg and could hardly walk up the steps out front, but she as well as her neighbors to the north of her on that big lake where she lives signed the petition. They all signed the petition except one man who was on an extended vacation and could not be reached for it, and two people are here from that tonight, the Blythe's, Jim and Mable Blythe are here from that row of houses. In our petition we have told you, and the remonstrators have told the Area Plan Commission of urban sprawl. This proposed rezoning of a commercial area up into an established residential neighborhood is a classic example of a wedge leading to destruction of rural neighborhood. It is like a wedge in the door to perpetuate urban sprawl. To go onto another idea, and to remind you and any other listeners, our neighborhood, and, I will repeat, this is not really part of the Highway 41 corridor. Old State Road is a residential area, and it is a rural area, and it is not part of the Highway 41 corridor. Even tonight we heard Mrs. Cunningham read about the previous rezoning adjacent to this area, and on, this would be on Boonville-New Harmony and the highway and it would be to the west of some part of it now, and Boonville-New Harmony that is to be rezoned. We have heard Mrs. Cunningham read that, and you know this, that the area west of the proposed rezoning, that is on Highway 41, was rezoned in 2000 by you, the County Commissioners, and that that was consistent with the comprehensive plan, you heard her read, that was consistent with the comprehensive plan, which identified the northeast corner of Boonville-New Harmony Road and Highway 41 for commercial use. She read further, both tonight and the other night when we were at the other public hearing, it said further, however, that the newly proposed rezoning asks for, again here tonight by Three I group, seeks to expand the area eastward to Old State Road. However, the transcript of the earlier meeting continued, and she repeated again tonight, the comprehensive plan designates the area along Old State Road as residential, confining the commercial designation to Highway 41. The Highway 41 corridor. I know that you know that, but maybe I will just paraphrase it and say it again for other people. When you zoned the strip on the highway, at Boonville-New Harmony and Highway 41, north from Boonville-New Harmony, that was in compliance and it was consistent with the comprehensive plan, but, again, to repeat rezoning up into a residential area, a rural area is not and was not part of the comprehensive plan. We have been told by counsel that petitioners who want to rezone residential and agricultural areas into commercial rezoning, if they want to change the use to commercial use that they have the burden of proving that such rezoning is overall good for Vanderburgh County. The Three I petitioners have failed to prove that. They cannot claim need for another new shopping center in this area, when, as you know, one is already under construction diagonally across Highway 41 north, and we've heard about that tonight, where Buehler's Buy Low is being built and they tell us is almost ready to go, and so on. It will have a bank, we hear, besides a grocery, and we hear talk of a restaurant across the highway there in the part that is already rezoned. We didn't even want or really need that shopping center. We know it will make it's own impact as it opens on the intersection of Highway 41 and Boonville-New Harmony Road. It's close to the highway, and it's close to a railroad track. In light of this, there is certainly no need, certainly no need, for a second shopping center diagonally across from it. The petitioners claim that the growing new neighborhoods north of the area sought for rezoning need commercial development, but those new neighborhoods, and we and Vanderburgh County do not need them at this dangerous intersection. Scott school is farther northeast on Old State Road, you go northeast on Old State Road and you come very soon to Scott school. Many school busses run from this school, come along Old State Road, turn right across the highway at Boonville-New Harmony, and, of course, that is when the deliver the kids home. When they bring them in the morning, reverse that route, but do note that it will cross Highway 41 at this intersection that we are talking about as being quite dangerous. Old State Road traffic will increase, we know that, if this commercial development takes place. That will be because people as they come out of this shopping center will want to go to their homes to the north and the east, and they will use Old State Road, so we know that it will become worse as far as traffic is concerned. Old State Road, we hear tonight, that the developers want the entrance on Old State Road. This is a really bad idea, and would make our Old State Road doubly dangerous from what it is now. I spoke to Jane Bartley, who is the principal at Scott Elementary School. She had not heard of this proposed rezoning, and she was quite concerned. She was concerned about the safety of her school children as they would have to come along Old State Road and as a good number of them would have to cross school busses at Highway 41 and Boonville-New Harmony. We repeat this intersection is already congested and dangerous. There are three crosses there to signify fatal deaths that are not even weathered yet, and then just slightly north of that, in the median close to that little Champlain station, is another rather new cross signifying a fatal accident. I also spoke to the President of the Scott Township, excuse me the Scott Elementary School PTA, Mr. Devine, and he likewise was concerned about the safety of Scott school kids as they would travel on Old State Road and, or across Highway 41 at this dangerous intersection. I say again, if this commercial rezoning is allowed, it will only get worse at that intersection at the highway. President Mosby: Any questions by any member of the Commission? Jo Wilson: I'm not quite finished, if I may have- President Mosby: Oh, okay. Jo Wilson: -a little more time. We can't stress enough the danger of this intersection already at the highway and Boonville-New Harmony Road, and we know the new shopping center will make it more dangerous and, the one that is already being built, and if this new one is allowed, it will become truly horrendous, and if we allow this we will be setting ourselves up for a truly dangerous highway crossing with Interstate truck traffic coming at the speed trucks drive. I forgot to mention that Sharon Holland spoke at the Area Plan Commission on some rezoning related to this across Boonville-New Harmony Road to the south, and she expressed a concern about the school children on the busses too. In our petition and in our testimony before the Area Plan Commission we told about how dangerous traffic gets at this intersection when the Frog Follies is out there. You people, I suppose, if you have been in Evansville awhile know something about the Frog Follies. We see if first hand, and we know how congested traffic is there already, and when the Vanderburgh County Fair occurs. Even now, when these things are going on traffic backs up both from north and south, creating a very dangerous situation. The petitioners for this rezoning can't really claim a need for this new commercial development, but we can claim, and others can claim, a certainty of an increase in congestion and danger. I would like to tell you that developers have a motivation that is different overall from the motivation that you as elected county officials have. Such county officials as you are have the overall good of Vanderburgh County to consider, and it's, you need to consider the citizens and their safety. On the other hand, commercial developers have as their overall desire to build and expand commercial areas, that is pretty much the sum of it. They naturally try to gain new areas because that's their business, that's the reason they exist. Well, we have other concerns, and I would like to remind you that a large number of people signed the petition opposing this rezoning, and so we ask you to deny this rezoning. We ask you on all of the grounds that we have presented so far, and will present. You have our petition, and if you detect emotion in our petition, or in anything that we say tonight, know that it is emotion that is fueled by reason, by experience of the past, and by observation. We've seen that commercial rezoning in an area begets more commercial rezoning, and we know that developers promises not to cross a certain road, not to go past a certain lake, or the edge of a certain wood, we know those promises are not binding. We know that from past observation that two shopping centers at an already dangerous intersection, especially one with so much Interstate truck traffic is a bad idea. It's bad zoning. We know from our reason, also, that life in the vicinity of Highway 41, Boonville-New Harmony Road, Old State Road, Ridgeview Heights, Scott school, will become worse. Life there, and the quality of life, and the safety of life will all become worse if this zoning, rezoning is granted. So, we respectfully, we respectfully, but fervently aks you to deny the Three I's petition to rezone in this particular area. Thank you. President Mosby: Thank you. Ronald Grover: My name is Ronald Grover, I live at 13225 Woodland Lane. I guess that I would like to start with asking a question, perhaps one of you can answer. From looking at the governments master plan of Highway 41, you have planned for and expect a lot of growth, all the way up to Highway 64. In spite of the building of I-164, 41 is still the busiest northwest corridor through Evansville, and with planned growth, will continue to be. Yet, I see no plans for overpasses or exchanges to meet the growing need. If you allow all of the major intersections to be built up commercially, I can assume, or can I assume, that you feel that it can never be in this area's best interest to make such improvements on Highway 41? Also in looking at the projected use of the Highway 41 corridor, I see no plans for green space. Though I was born and lived here, I moved away and lived in other large urban areas, Denver, Houston, Charlotte, that did not adequately consider the quality of life as they grew. Now they are trying to salvage and even buy back areas to provide adequate green space to improve the quality of life, so residents have a place off of the streets to jog, walk their dogs, or enjoy a little island of nature in the midst of urban sprawl. The historic site of Saunderville, one of the largest naturally wooded areas left in Vanderburgh County, are adjacent to this proposed rezoning. It seems only natural to be left green. It has been the rule more than the exception in this county that commercial rezoning begets commercial rezoning, and not just along the main arteries, but spider webbing back along the side streets. First Avenue, Franklin Street, Greenriver Road, Red Bank Road area, Morgan Avenue, just to mention a few. All of this speaks nothing of the concerns that are in the newspapers and other public forums of a dwindling downtown area, and an ever growing number of large commercial sites and industrial sites that sit vacant. As we allow new commercial industrial building, we leave graveyards of unwanted, unused areas behind. Is this really progress? With all of the rezoning of commercial and industrial properties, another point to consider is the alarming number of ozone alerts that we experience for a mid-size city. The very high cancer rates here that are associated with that pollution. The developers may argue that they propose a clean use of this property, but when they are no longer involved in the property, who watches it then? Beyond our concerns for Highway 41, some 150 yards or so east, is the intersection of Boonville-New Harmony Road and Old State Road, where our more immediate concerns lie. First, the conditions of these two roads is of a nature that is not conducive to the kind of improvements necessary to carry the increased traffic and trucks that a growing commercial development would bring. They are very winding roads, with 6' to 8' drainage ditches to come off each side within inches of the road. It is very hard to pass on this road already, on either of these roads already. Secondly, Golden Hills Court adjacent to this rezoned property, and Ridgeview Heights only access is from Old State Road, just a very short distance from the proposed rezoning, and many driveways and other neighborhood accesses are also in the immediate area. Many elderly people live in these neighborhoods, and many school children too. These two groups of people have the most difficulty in dealing with traffic, and they make up a preponderance of the residents in this area. There are already several hundred acres already zoned C-2 and C-4 available along 41. The main question here, is this good rezoning? To me an easy way to answer that question can be found in asking, is it really necessary rezoning? Do we really need more commercial land along this area? Once the rezoning is done, it's a done deal, it goes with the land. Is there a shortage of commercial land available? The answer to both of those questions is a resounding no. My opposition may argue that with industries such as Toyota, which is by the way some 25 miles north of the proposed rezoning, and the rezoning area is some eight or nine miles north of Evansville, is a natural progression of population follows industry, and that services follow population. Makes little sense to me, especially since Toyota has been there for several years now, and the last year 2000 census shows a loss of population in Vanderburgh County, to such an extent that we may lose a Congressional Representative here. Furthermore, this proposed rezoning pushes right into an old established neighborhood, tearing down some very nice homes. Of those moving out into the new developments who want service, let them back them up to their neighborhoods, this is an old neighborhood here. This neighborhood is part of a settlement that dates back as far as Evansville does. A number of residents have lived here in there present homes for over 45 years. We've been more than happy to travel that few miles back into Evansville for the services we need. We moved out here to get out of the urban sprawl, not to bring it with us. Our neighboring property, Camp Reveal, has always been thought of as a place where Christians can come out to the country for a quiet retreat, and the 4-H Center, a place with an agricultural flavor. Will it remain so appealing to our farmers if they find themselves having to tote their livestock, farm machinery and such into the middle of the city to show? What of the Frog Follies? If we create a highly congested commercial zone here, can you imagine the Follies being held on Greenriver Road? They might look elsewhere for a more desirable place to hold this event that brings so much prosperity into the county the way it is now. They might say, well, if we have to deal with this congestion, we might as well be in St. Louis or Nashville. This is not about owners being allowed to use the property they already have, these houses are only under contract pending this rezoning. We did not oppose Three I's property rezoning of the frontage on 41, thinking it would just be confined to that, but now they want to not just butt up against our neighborhood, but to tear into it, to tear down homes. I mean, let's not mince words here, this is about money, not about devaluing residential properties, but about developers making a few bucks by gobbling up irreplaceable resources and encroaching on quiet neighborhoods and adding to an unsafe environment. Do we learn from our mistakes, from the mistakes of other cities, or do we repeat them here? Can we see, can we be seen as a better community that is a step ahead? We don't have one or two concerns here, we have a number of them. I hope each of you got my letter, my personal letter, and read it. It discusses other concerns that we have that are not mentioned here. Yes, perhaps some of these concerns we have may not pan out, but what if some of them do? Even if all of our concerns end up being unfounded, that we have these concerns should send you a signal that perhaps these issues need to be reviewed just a little bit deeper before such an important decision is made. You as our elected officials, it is your job to look out for the best interest of the county as a whole, not just at the present time, but for our children and generations to come. Rezoning is permanent, it is attached to the land, and we have ample commercial property already zoned. We have issues of safety and quality of life. What more do we need to answer the question, is this good rezoning? No. Thank you. Any questions? President Mosby: Thank you very much. I would ask that you please bring up new information as you come to the mike. Commissioner Mourdock: Before we start we need to change tapes. (Tape Change) Steve Bohleber: Thank you, I am Steve Bohleber. I forwarded a letter to each member of the Commission dated April 12th that articulated many of the concerns that Mrs. Wilson and Mr. Grover have indicated to you this evening, but in a different way, because, I think, the pain that you hear in their voices, the concern that they express is not nibbiism as we call it, not in my backyard. It is not fear of the unknown, but it is something that the nation is feeling as we press our communities farther and farther from their center. This is a concept I referred to in my opening comments know as urban sprawl. In that April 12th letter, I sent to you there are seven problems created by sprawl that have been identified by land use planners, and are being looked at in political campaigns around the country. I guess, the first thing we have to do is to determine whether or not this request constitutes definitionally urban sprawl? The material I provided to you defined the problem as; "Dispersed development outside of compact urban and village centers, along highways in a rural countryside." This development is nine miles from downtown Evansville, a mile and a half from the commercial intersection in the town of Darmstadt, and along one of the busiest and one of the most dangerous arterial highways in our county. It's also located in a rural countryside. So, it meets all the definitions of sprawl. Will it treat the problems, will it treat those seven articulated problems? We will just talk about those, and, again, I apologize for being so lengthy. These are in no particular order, they are simply as they were presented in the handout of the materials that I mailed to you. Sprawl causes a psychological loss of sense of place. It has been identified in communities around the country. It turns a landscape that was considered special, as these people look at their homes, into one that reflects, as someone said, the geography of nowhere. Sprawl destroys the urban character and rural character of areas by creating patterns of new development that are indistinguishable and undifferentiated, and seemingly without purpose. Activities that once took place in the center of cities and towns are segregators, the periphery of densely populated areas. So, is this loss of sense of place present in Evansville? Will it be accelerated by this process? We need to look no further than this morning's Evansville Courier & Press to see expressions of loss of sense of place and what people are doing to try and regain it. On the front page, nice story about someone that I think that all of you know, Bernadine Jones, the founder of the Jacobsville Neighborhood Association. She said that she helped create that association and foster the many others that have come up in our community because she was losing her sense of place. She doesn't say it that way, she calls it her neighborhood. She says that people have moved out, businesses have moved out, the neighborhood changed in a detrimental fashion. She is talking about that loss of sense of place that we are noticing throughout the country by issues involving sprawl. These associations have been given a lot of political power and attention by elected officials. The City Council a few years ago even allowed certain neighborhood groups to register and become political forces and be required to received notice of zoning changes. Again, these associations are trying to protect and restore and keep the things that they grew up with. Another headline in this morning's paper also talks about sprawl in a different area, because it talks about downtown, and the devastation that downtown Evansville has sustained as we move things further and further away from downtown. Big article, "Input is on downtown plans", committee wants to hear suggestions and comments from the public. Even a picture of our current Mayor inviting people to come to restore Evansville's downtown, it's a ghost town. Why? The place has been lost, the center of town is gone, people have moved to the periphery, they have moved to Greenriver Road, they have moved to Red Bank Road, now we are asking them to move their commerce, their business, their activities nine miles north, perhaps, to this 17 acre site. Business have left, people have left, this community has tried for the past couple of decades to try and rejuvenate downtown. This body spent $30 million to renovate a convention center. Both city and county government had to pitch in to keep the hotel adjacent from that convention center from closing for good. Why? Like everything else, the hotels have moved to the periphery. They are part of the sprawl. So what are we doing? We are spending $30 to $40 million for a convention center, we are spending $17 to $20 million for the Victory. We are spending all kind of taxpayer money to try to put back our center of city, we are spending money to keep a hotel downtown. We are feeling this sense of loss of space, loss of place, disintegration of our core city because everyone wants to move out. Sprawl also results in land consumption and threats to farm land. I am not going to go into great detail here, but is land consumption an issue here? Yes, what are we going to have, asphalt replacing top soil on that 17 acres. Formerly undeveloped green space land is going to become pavement to accommodate disjointed and largely unknown commercial activities. Green space will be lost forever. The land will be consumed by this activity. What is this going to cost local government? Sprawl creates cost. We've seen the cost it has created for our infrastructure downtown, I have already mentioned that. Urban sprawl is a proven burden on local government, because it forces limited resources to be allocated to the creation of new infrastructure out in the sprawl areas, rather than maintaining existing infrastructure. It encourages populations to move out of older established communities. The tax base of those old communities is diminished, requiring reduction in service to the remaining population. Ironically many state and local government policies actually end up subsidizing sprawl because they've got to try and take care of everybody. Will there be cost to local government if we do this, if you rezone this property? Will you end up subsidizing this area? The petitioner rightfully says, as it has been encouraged by Mrs. Cunningham and the land use planners here, that they are going to do an impact study here before proceeding. That impact study, I presume, is going to look at infrastructure needs, but probably only immediate infrastructure needs. We can't, they can't predict the future, other than saying that if this commercial development is successful, we do know that the traffic will increase, pollution will increase, waste production will increase at that site. If it is successful, others will want to join them in that prosperity and rezone an adjacent property. All of this is going to put additional burdens on infrastructure and it is going to grow incrementally. I seriously doubt that any developer is going to give a guarantee to local government to take care of infrastructure of commercial development forever. Ultimately, even if the immediate concerns are taken care of by this development, if this is successful, it will require government to upgrade the infrastructure again, and again, and again. Ultimately, if this is a successful operation, government will likely be required to increase and widen Old State Road, Boonville-New Harmony far beyond this site. They will have to increase sewer and water capacity, deal with the pollution that comes along with increased automobile traffic, and deal with the safety issues. This is all going to take money. The tax base is going to shift further from the city to the county, and the taxpayers are going to end up subsidizing this development. Another thing about sprawl, it creates dependence on automobiles. No question that is going to happen. You can't walk up to this development. We have also been very concerned about our sprawling communities and the social impacts they have on our poor inner cities. Sprawl has a devastating impact on the poor and racial minorities which are often concentrated in inner city neighborhoods. Not only does it lead to dispersal of job opportunities, but it absorbs large amounts of government spending on new infrastructure which might otherwise be used to deal with inner city problems. A few years ago, the former Mayor's Riverboat Committee, and Mr. Mourdock served on that as did I, identified that the neediest areas in terms of economic need in our community were the fourth and sixth wards in the city. I suspect that remains pretty much the same today. The fourth and sixth wards are not going to benefit by commercialization nine, twelve miles away at Boonville-New Harmony Road and 41. The job opportunities that they create are going to be nine and twelve miles away. There will be negative social impacts here like there is everywhere else that experiences this. There are health and environmental impacts that go without saying. The sprawl pattern development leads not only to loss of wild life habitat, but increased hazards to public safety. Wetlands, forests, natural resources are put at risk by increased land consumption for roads and development. Light pollution increases. Not only does it become an annoyance to the neighbors, but it also just cuts down the aesthetic beauty of the outer areas of our society to take a look at stars and celestial objects. Yes, this impacts us in many ways. It meets all of the criteria of urban sprawl. In summary, this proposed development creates problems. Unknown problems, but yet problems that we have experienced to the east and to the west already. As we know, development along Greenriver Road, along Burkhardt Road has not been easy. It has cost government a lot. Development to the west side has not been seamless, lots of complaints have occurred, lots of problems have arisen that we have had to deal with as a community. It seems that in this particular case that many agencies of government seem content to wait for the petitioners impact study, and I compliment them for doing an impact study, but to me it doesn't seem logical nor does it to the neighbors to approve this rezoning before the impact study is completed and analyzed by the Plan Commission, INDOT, water and sewer utilities, EPA, DNR, City Engineer, County Engineer, County Surveyor, the Building Commissioner, the School Corporation, and a host of other government regulators on which the development will impact. Another concern is, suppose this impact study comes up with a price tag that exceeds the developers ability or willingness to pay, and we have already rezoned the property. We then open this to significant development by future individuals other than these gentleman who do have a record in Evansville. This appears to be, quite frankly, folks, a case of urban sprawl. It also appears to be a classic case of putting the cart before the horse in terms of analyzing this development's impact on not only this intersection, but also on our community. I ask you to consider all of those things as many folks around the country are considering them as a community problem, not a community opportunity. Before you approve this rezoning, please consider these neighbors, please consider the implications of this action. I thank you very much. It has been long evening. I do want to incorporate any comments from the previous Plan Commission meeting into the record here this evening, and I will answer any questions that you might have as do my clients. Thank you again for your attention. President Mosby: Questions? Commissioner Mourdock: Just one question for the record, Steve. Madelyn asked me, the letter that you sent, I do not have my copy, since you sent it to my house. Do you have a copy of that here? Steve Bohleber: I do, and I will make that a part of the record. Commissioner Mourdock: Thank you. President Mosby: Any other questions? Gene Koch. Gene Koch: My name is Gene Koch, I live at 1821 West Boonville-New Harmony Road, about two miles west of the petitioners property, and I make an average of about three trips a day through the intersection of Boonville-New Harmony Road and Highway 41. Thanks to Barbara's APC report and Jo's presentation, I can be very brief here. My concern is specifically one of safety. As you are aware from the maps, there is a railroad track that runs about a tenth of a mile to the west of and running parallel to Highway 41. This track, to the best of my knowledge, carries between 40 and 50 trains per day, and that number is to increase significantly in the future. It is not uncommon to have westbound traffic on Boonville-New Harmony Road backed up near 41, waiting for a train to pass. On occasion, there won't be room, and traffic may not clear 41 and then traffic will be stuck out in the intersection. I have been caught in that situation myself. It is scary. This happens now, primarily, when there is an event at the 4-H center, which is most weekends. However, when Buehler's Supermarket opens on the southwest corner of this intersection, this situation will become much more prevalent. Now the problem, at least once every three to four days, which is every ten to 12 trips that I make through that intersection, I witness a semi truck coming south on 41, running the red light, not just the red light, but the green light on Boonville-New Harmony Road. As you know there is a delay there of perhaps three seconds between the changing of red to the changing of green for the opposite, in the opposite direction. This is a common situation. This occurs most frequently in the southbound lane, the one closest to the tracks, and this lane is downhill at a grade that I would guess to be approximately 3% to 4%, making it much more difficult for heavy and speeding trucks to stop. With such a tenuous safety situation already imminent, then more westbound traffic is put on through this intersection, we are creating a very significant and deadly safety hazard. No traffic impact study or egress on the other side is going to help that. As long as there is additional westbound traffic going through that intersection, this problem will be amplified. That is the only thing that I have to add. Thank you. President Mosby: Thank you. Mike, I can't really read the last name. Looks good to me. It's the only Mike I have on here. Mike Sutherby: Hi, I am Mike Sutherby, I live at 13300 Woodland Lane. Thanks for letting me talk here. My concern too is for the safety of that intersection of Old State Road running north and south. If you have ever driven on that road, you would maybe remember that it runs, running north and south it is flat, crossing Boonville-New Harmony, in other words, you could see north and south, in the direction north and south, but you cannot see east and west. When you look towards the east, towards Boonville-New Harmony, it is just a big dip, and it goes for about a half a mile or so. On the left, they said it was a 900' or so direction to 41, and that's even more severe. That is why they cannot get any access for their businesses there, because it is too steep. In the winter, whenever it freezes, the safety factor is really severe, because cars cannot come up to Boonville-New Harmony without sliding, so they have to encroach on Old State. That puts a real... they impede the traffic. I was stopped by the State Police there, because I have to go through that intersection every day, and he said why did you get through that traffic? It is a habit here because it is an unsafe hill, you can't get through there. If you stop and wait for another car to come up... because the habit of the cars there is to come up and to get through there as quick as possible, because when the two cars come up, they can't see each other. The only flat area is Old State Road. They have a real severe problem with that intersection. The only access they do have is to come out on Old State, and that is encroaching on all of the residential areas that we do have in that area. The other thing that I wanted to mention too, is that we do have a little bit of visible light, and he did mention that we will have controlled lighting in that parking lot. They have controlled lighting over too at the 4-H grounds, and that is one thing that we have to consider, but we will have more than a controlled lighting problem. It is controlled lighting, yes, they have to have lighting on to keep their parking lot safe, but what we will have, is the same thing that we have in this room, we have indirect lighting, and when indirect lighting hits the sky, I don't have to get up at night and turn on any lights where I live in the Ridgeview Estates area at all, or any of the residents in that area, because the whole area will be lit up. Our backyard's will be lit up, it will not be a private backyard anymore. My home will be lit up because of that. That is something that I don't really look forward to having. My biggest concern, though, is the safety of that intersection. When you have gulleys on both sides of Old State Road, you do not have a safe situation. You put all of the traffic, and all of the people that are north of Boonville-New Harmony on Old State that are coming down there, and the Ridgeview Estate's area... I am the only one who has a driveway out of my back property on Old State. The reason that I put it there is because when I come out on the main road of Ridgeview Estates, it's a blind corner and no one can make, can get out there and try to drive down that. I have four teenagers, two of them are driving, the other two will be driving in the next couple of years. They try to go out my driveway, because I have now 100 yards, or so, before I... that blind section, but the cars that are coming around that corner are going 40-50 or sometimes faster, if they are a little younger. It is a real hard corner to even get out of our neighborhood, and now we have much, much more traffic because of not being a residential area. Even in a residential situation, we have to be very, very concerned about driving on Old State, even right now, and yet to increase that traffic even more, with the times that we do... bus traffic is going to severely cause us a problem. So I hope that you consider that very much, I thank you for letting me talk. President Mosby: Thank You. Brad Menke. Brad Menke: I'm Brad Menke at 13131 Woodland Lane. I wanted to not repeat anything that has been repeated, but one of the things that I wanted to mention is that those two lakes are in a watershed, so that when water goes from one to the other, when it rains, the water is collected there. It goes from one lake to the other lake. Yet if that second lake is retention, then that is going to be extra water. The water has flooded several times out of that second lake into the area behind it. It is almost impossible for them to be able to calculate on a ten year or even a 100 year flood plan and be able to take care of that water in that area without having an extra pond. Of course, the study is going to be done, but I can't imagine approving it until that study is done, if you are so inclined to go ahead and approve. Thank you. President Mosby: Inaudible. Commissioner Mourdock: The other one meaning the one south- Kenny Bromm: South, yes, I'm Kenny Bromm, I live at 12506 Old State Road. I'm on the south end of it, I've got better than five and a half acres, I go from Old State to 41. The drainage is going to be a big problem. I brought it up at the last meeting, there is a little ditch down there that cuts through my corner comes all the way down, it does good, until you get a good rain. It runs under 41. You've got a culvert down there that, when the state put in 41, it's about 3' by 4'. You get a good rain, that ditch goes from now where you could jump over it, it just has a little water running constantly. I've seen water go 15' to 20', because you can't get through. You blacktop all of what they are saying, it won't get in my house, but I guarantee you, it's going to be crossing Boonville-New Harmony. They say they are going to be putting a retaining pond in, and they got the other lake up there, like they say, that lake is full, one drains out of the other, they are full. If they were empty, I'd say yes, it would take it, it would hold it, but they are not going to pump out each of these retaining ponds each time, because once they get full, they are not going to hold that much water, and you are going to have a problem that is going to come back up through there. Again, they got on the corner, I don't know, I asked him if there is going to be a gas station there on that south side. I'm on well, I don't know if digging that retaining pond is going to get in my water vane or not. First impact, pretty well, that ground is on that side of the ditch. When they brought this other property, the house they are going to tear down where they got the retaining pond in, it gets a little bit closer to me. I don't know about that, I don't want a gas station there where it can pollute my, you know, get into my water system. The flooding is something else. If they do pass it, I would like to have a 6' or 8' fence put up to hold the trash back, because the state put one up along there and you cannot believe all of the paper and trash it saves me. Because there is a gob of it out there, and I know that if they put some business in there it's gonna, the wind blows, and it's gonna come over on me, and I don't need it, I don't want it. I pick up enough along Old State where the people throw out. The traffic along Old State, I've got a dog, I walk it, in the morning and at night. These people are not lying about the traffic. I live a couple hundred yards from Boonville and Old State, to the south. I have seen cars hit my house, turn out their lights, put their foot in the carburetor and go through that intersection. Either one way or the other. I am waiting for one of these nights two of them to meet going different directions. They are doing 60 or 70 when they go through there. A lot of them in the summer time. You have heard of hill jumping? They come off of Boonville going west, and Greg's got a big sycamore, I think, the other year somebody nailed it. I don't know how many has been in his ditch down there. These kids get out there and they jump that hill. If they are not jumping it, they are running it. Either one way or the other, they turn out their lights and they go through that intersection. Like I say, you can just hear their foot in the carburetor. It's dangerous. I've got to watch myself, some of them will give you room and cross over to the other lane, others won't. If they light that corner up down there, eventually, somebody thinks they're gonna see and they are gonna be two of them meet there. I know it's not their problem, but, you know, the Sheriff is out there all the time, but , eventually, so far, lucky nobody has wrecked there. They do go through there at night, especially at night. The only thing I say is the drainage is definitely going to be a problem, I don't care, it ain't gonna affect my house, but it may affect the road up there. I don't know if it's the state or the county that has to enlarge that or do whatever they want to do, but it's, you are gonna have a problem. Just like the Lloyd, and you know what you got on it when you get a good rain. It only lets so much water under that road. Other than that, I have nothing, you know, to say. I thank you for your time. President Mosby: Thank you. Les, you want ( inaudible) Les Shively: I want to remind the Commissioners that many of these same comments by the landowners were made at the Plan Commission meeting of April 4th, and the vote on the rezonings that were considered in three separate votes were all in favor by the Plan Commission. All in favor, eight, nine and ten. Many years ago, the road we call Old State Road was the state road. It was a precursor to what became two lane 41. Two lane 41 became four lane 41. In the early 70's the City of Evansville extended sewer and water all the way up 41 to what is now the intersection of Highway 41 and I-164. This is not urban sprawl. If it is, if we have created a situation, then we should have thought about that when we approved 20 or 30 subdivisions in the north part of Vanderburgh County over the last five years. Creating a situation that by the year 2004 there are going to be 5000 home sites in northern Vanderburgh County, and contrary to the comments by the one commentator, the City of Evansville population may have decreased, but Vanderburgh County increased. With the exception of the last gentleman who spoke, who is concerned with the south side, and the gentleman who lives two miles from this intersection, everyone of the speakers that you heard this evening lives in the Woodland, on Woodland Lane which is in Ridgeview Heights Subdivision. Ridgeview Heights Subdivision is way in the corner here, way in the corner. The closest home is 200 yards to the closest point of this property. As I indicated to you before, the closest point , which is where the existing lake is, will remain a lake. Now, Mrs. Wilson talked about Mrs. Hewitt, Mrs. Hewitt, first of all, along the northern line, where Mrs. Hewitt's property is located, will be the 15' buffer, and Mrs. Hewitt's property is already adjacent to the property that has already been zoned C-4, and voiced no objection there. Her property is already adjacent to what is C-4, and apparently she did not remonstrate there, found a 15' buffer to be adequate. Her property is the closest one and it is by virtue of a rezoning that was completed in 2000. Dangerous intersection, mention of fatalities, I need not remind you all of the fatalities that have occurred at that intersection, many of them several years ago, were back in the time when we were debating whether to have a controlled signal. Remember those days, the debates with the state, whether there should be a light there or not? We now have a light, and we now have by virtue of the development on the west side of 41, improvements to Boonville-New Harmony Road that aren't just going to be for the benefit of Buehler's Buy Low, but for the benefit of the 4-H center, and I could speak with authority about that, I am on the Board of Directors of the 4-H center. When the developers came to us about their plan, we sat down with them, we listened to their plan for improvements, we know that at least every weekend there is something going on at the 4-H center. It brings people from all over the tri-state. This overall improves the situation, and we have that natural dividing point of the railroad tracks between our property. If you look at the marketing map that we were showing you before, let me show you the analogy and the similarities between the west and the east side of 41. On the west side, you have this area which has the natural border that cuts off the commercial, separates the property, commercial development from the 4-H center being the railroad track. The 4-H center then provides further buffers to the residential properties further to the west. Likewise, Old State Road coupled with a long established use by the Camp Reveal and the Rescue Mission, which by the way are not here tonight remonstrating, similarly provides the protection, the buffer, the end of commercial east of Old State Road. Comments were made about Scott school. Scott school, ladies and gentleman, is a good two miles from here, and we have a member of the school corporation, who by law, sits on the Area Plan Commission. He voted for this rezoning. Ladies and gentleman, I know that we are talking about money, and everyone wants to talk about how greedy and nasty and horrible developers are, and if you listen to the remonstrators here, and Mr. Bohleber, the developer has to give a cure for cancer, stop pollution and solve the problems for downtown Evansville before their petition should be considered. The reality of this situation is, Scott school, as much of our school system, is in need of upgrading of it's infrastructure. Scott school is outgrowing the, it's at the seams, in fact, talking to a school corporation representative, they are going to have to start using their auditorium for classes. They have no room to put the children that have impacted that school as a result of the residential development in that area. How do we fund improvements to schools? Property tax base. This development of $14 million is going to go a long way to allowing the school corporation to provide good, safe schools. That same tax base, along with the multi million dollar commitment that this developer is going to make for improvements to Boonville-New Harmony Road, and, if necessary, Old State Road, will also go a long way to meeting the infrastructure needs. We talked about pollution, we talked about all the things associated with automobiles, it is Mr. Shetler, President of the Board of Public Works, who sits on the Plan Commission who noted at the April 4th Plan Commission meeting. You have these people who live out here in these subdivisions, services naturally follow residential development. What we experienced in the 60's with the growth on the east side. Things move from the downtown, the commercial. First it was Lawndale, Washington Square, then came Eastland Mall. The commercial development follows the residential development. The people who live out in the Mc Cutchanville, north part of Vanderburgh County want to be able to shop and bank and go out to restaurants in their neighborhood, just like the folks on the west side desire to do so, which was the impetus for that most successful and quality development that exists out there today. Comments were made about 6' drainage ditches that are existing out there, I don't know what these folks are talking about. Comments were made with regard to the adequacy of the existing lake, I know, we are not here tonight to talk about drainage, Mr. Farney is here, he would be more than happy to explain to you preliminarily how the existing lake will work, how the capacities will work. I would also note, in addition, to rezoning this property so that we could use it as a retention lake, the rezoning down here on the south side, the sole purpose of this rezoning, is to implement this retaining facility here. So that the overall development works, so it does not impact any existing drainage problems and,in fact, in the long run when done correctly, the drainage plan is approved by your Drainage Board, will improve drainage in this particular area. Mr. Bohleber makes a point that let's do all these impact studies before we zone the property. Zoning is a land use decision, based upon your comprehensive plan. This project is consistent with that comprehensive plan, as we have demonstrated, moreover, a traffic impact study is a prerequisite to pulling any permits. We have purchased this property, that is my client has purchased this property, they take the risk, and the law is well established that just rezoning property, doesn't give you the right to develop it. That is why we have the improvement location approval process, and as we have volunteered here this evening, when that impact study is done, and we are prepared to go to site review to pull that improvement location permit to start this project, we will give notice to those landowners, wishing to have notice, to have input on the decisions and how the ingress and egress, the traffic flow works. We want to balance the concern of the neighbors, but by the same token, there is one thing that my clients are committed to, doing this project right, doing it with accepted engineering and traffic study standards, and doing it in a manner that not only doesn't create any burdens for you as the Commissioners to have to deal with later, but it enhances your ability to meet, not only the needs for this particular area, but overall for the community. Look at this overall project, this is a 17 acre project, look how much area is devoted to green. It is not paving this whole thing as Mr. Bohleber suggested. Much of the area up here in the north east corner, down near the south, in addition to the buffers is committed to retaining green areas to preserving natural ponds, and to provide a workable drainage facility. There were comments made about the dip in Boonville-New Harmony Road, and Mr. Farney, again, can address that along with the lake issue. If you have any questions concerning that, I am not an engineer, he can answer those better for you. The point of the matter is, because we have now acquired, or have the ability to acquire, all of that area that runs on the north side of Boonville-New Harmony Road, from 41 to Old State, we can improve Boonville-New Harmony Road. We can improve the elevation, we can make it safer, and, the one thing that I agree with everyone that spoke here this evening, Boonville-New Harmony Road needs improvements now. I have been out there, been out there between close to 7:30 and 8:00 in the morning, it is a very busy area because of all of the people that live out there and use that intersection to either go north or south, east or west. It needs improvement now. This is a way to get those improvements in place without burdening the property taxpayers, without taxing the treasury of Vanderburgh County, at the sole expense of the developer, which not only enhances his project, but takes care of an existing problem. Again, I call your attention to the project done by Mr. Hahn and his partners on the west side, it is a project that took a lot of time, a lot of input, not just from professional planners and governmental agencies, but engineers and residents that live out in that area. It is a quality project. This will be no less as quality. Any questions that you have about what is planned for transportation was planned for the use of the existing lake and pond and the overall drainage. How it will work and the studies that have been done preliminarily, Mr. Farney is here to answer those questions. We have, we started this process months ago, working with the neighbors, seeking their input, eliminating 39 uses that we from their input found to be offensive. In fact, this evening I haven't heard any other uses that they would like to see eliminated. This is a quality project, it is a project that will serve this rapidly growing area of the community. It is good zoning. It is good for Vanderburgh County, and we ask for your approval here this evening. Again, we are more than happy to answer any questions, as would Mr. Hahn, Mr. Habermel or Mr. Farney. President Mosby: Any questions from the Commission? Commissioner Fanello: I think that we had one more person that wanted to speak. Philip Hayes: Too late. The petitioner speaks last, closes it off, I think that it is out of order. Connie Engelbrecht-Hollander: It is about this, though. Philip Hayes: I'm sorry, I believe it is out of order. If it's- President Mosby: Okay, can I let the petitioner (inaudible). Philip Hayes: It's closed. Connie Engelbrecht-Hollander: It's about this issue of zoning period. Okay? Philip Hayes: I'm afraid- President Mosby: If I let Les address it, real quick, if he wants to. Commissioner Mourdock: I will move that we let this lady speak as the final remonstrator, and then, of course, Mr. Shively would have a chance to respond. President Mosby: Just so you could address it. Connie Englebrecht-Hollander: I want to remonstrate on the whole subject of rezoning out into urban areas. We've already got enough mistakes. He brought up a very good point. I've not even seen that used in this county about urban sprawl. That blew my mind, because that is one of the things that I have been working on being in agriculture. You want to know something else, I am also in development. What bothers me the most, is that I live in Newburgh, or we have our Newburgh farm with a building sitting on it, not being used because K-Mart doesn't want any competition going in it. I see a building at St. Joe not being used and now we hear the things at North Park, we are losing Shop-Ko again. We need to concentrate on making these people reuse those things that are already done and sitting empty, and we need to rethink our thinking. It is not anybody's fault here, it is just that we know we have done something wrong, and it is time to start changing and start using these laws and using them wisely. Commissioner Mourdock: What is your name for the record. Connie Engelbrecht-Hollander: Connie Engelbrecht-Hollander. I don't live anywhere near it, but I've been through this before. Commissioner Mourdock: Thank you. President Mosby: Les, you can address that if you want. Les Shively: Just briefly, what I would say that what that last speaker does make a point and as Mrs. Cunningham weeded directly out of her staff field report, quality site design could lessen the impact on surrounding residences and farm operations. When a project is done right, it can be something positive, Mr. Hahn has shown that. The 17 acres that will encompass this entire project, it is not all going to be paved, it is not going to be all buildings, much of it will remain green, much of it will be used for drainage facilities. This is a good plan, and it fits the staff recommendation and demonstrates what can happen when you design a project like this that is quality and it addresses all of the concerns that are necessary to make a project work. Thank you. President Mosby: Thank you. Okay.
Commissioner Mourdock: We need, as we do this, of course, three separate motions and three separate votes. I will go through them, again, the larger tract on the north is known as VC-2-2001, the smaller tract in the north is VC-4-2001, and the one in the south is VC-3-2001. President Mosby: That is how I got them listed here. Commissioner Mourdock: Let me start off then with the motion for approval for VC-2-2001. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: A motion and a second. Commissioner Fanello: Roll call? Commissioner Mourdock: Then we will do the roll call. President Mosby: Commissioner Mourdock. Commissioner Mourdock: There are times when you are on this board that you certainly wish you weren't, because you can hear all of the arguments on both sides and sit here and agree, and that makes it difficult. I, in looking at this area, I guess, the thing that struck me most tonight in the discussions, that unlike David and Catherine, I was here when all of this to the west that is immediately adjacent to U.S. 41 was zoned and was zoned commercial. During the discussion tonight, I have gone back and looked at my notes from both the Area Plan Commission meetings of last year and the zoning meeting that took place last year regarding those tracts, and for the final zoning there were no remonstrators at all. There seemed to be an acceptance that what is along 41 is in fact destined to become commercial. Initially, there were some people who had questions, but the developer worked with those folks to get those resolved. Obviously, what is different tonight is we have a whole bunch of remonstrators here. Pat Tuley when he was on this board would always give me a bit of a hard time when he would say, somewhat in jest, that when there was ever a doubt, he knew I sought to be consistent. Reference has been made several times tonight to the master plan that was most recently adopted in 1996 when I was on this board, so I voted for that plan, so I strive to be consistent. When I voted for that plan, I voted for the strip along 41 to be commercial, however, that plan does also show that the strip immediately adjacent to Old State Road be residential, and while I respect the fact that the developer here has trie |
