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Vanderburgh County Drainage Board Meeting September 27, 1999
The meeting was called to order at
6:33 p.m.
President Mourdock: Good evening. We'll call the meeting of September 27, 1999 of the Vanderburgh County Drainage Board to order. The County Commission also sits as the Drainage Board and as you can tell we're short one member this evening. Commissioner Tuley is ill today. As we go through the various agenda items I know there are a number of folks here who are concerned with some of these items tonight. When you come to the microphone please state your name and address for the record. All of our notes are kept on tape so we'll have everything verbatim then with your comments. Also, since these issues, drainage issues, tend to be kind of emotional at times if four or five of you are here all opposed or in support of one particular plan it's not necessary for each of you to come forward and say the same thing that someone else said. Please try to be brief because, again, there are a lot of folks here tonight and I know everyone wants to get their minute of comments or several minutes of comments, so we'll try to oblige you. Having said that, we have agendas this evening and I think they're over on the table over there. Are there any extras? Charlene Timmons: Yes, they're over there. President Mourdock: Okay.
President Mourdock: The first item on the agenda is the approval of minutes of the prior month which was August 23rd. Commissioner Jerrel: I'll move approval of the previous minutes. President Mourdock: And I will second
and say so ordered.
President Mourdock: Now we turn to our Chief Deputy Surveyor, Bill Jeffers, representing the Surveyor's Office. The first issue will be final drainage plans. Bill Jeffers: Final? President Mourdock: That's what you had on the agenda, yeah. Bill Jeffers: The first item on the agenda under drainage plans is Helfrich Hills which was put on the agenda as a final plan. However, some items have come up since Thursday with regard to the street plans and John Stoll is asking for some additional details. Also, Lot 2 is going to have to be divided between two others, between Lot 1 and Lot 3, because they were unable to find sufficient area for a sanitary field bed on one of the lots. There may be people here in the audience who are wishing to speak with regard to Helfrich Hills and the Surveyor at this time is going to recommend reaffirmation of the preliminary drainage plan which was approved last month, okay, and the engineer, Billy Nicholson, may come up and ask you to allow John Stoll and I to come back during a Commissioners' meeting and tell you that all the details that Mr. Stoll was asking for have been applied to the plan. Commissioner Jerrel: Let me ask a clarification question. If we do that wouldn't we need to advertise it as a special Drainage Board meeting? We could do it in five minutes right after a regular one. Bill Jeffers: You may. Joe Harrison, Jr.: I would probably prefer that to be honest with you. I think that if in fact there are other issues to be resolved that the public ought to have an opportunity to be at that particular meeting. Bill Jeffers: That may come into play. They're just seeking...they're trying to hurry up to take advantage of this wonderful construction season. However, that may not come up, it may come up. Also, Mike Wathen called me and told me he was not in receipt of an erosion control plan and asked me also to simply ask for a reaffirmation of the preliminary drainage plan until he has an erosion control plan in hand. Therefore that is our recommendation and you may wish to see if there is anyone in the audience including the engineer for the project that wishes to speak. President Mourdock: Is there anyone here wishing to address Helfrich Hills Subdivision? Billy. Bill Nicholson: Bill Nicholson, Veach Nicholson Associates. I have talked briefly with Bill and John about these items that need to be corrected that was probably not in the detail sheet like it should have been. We will correct that and I would ask that if we could to come back whenever the street plans are approved and we'll advertise or however that is to be done for the special Drainage Board. President Mourdock: Do you have any idea, Bill, in speaking with John when he thinks he'll have those? You said at a later Commission meeting. Do you think we could schedule a special Drainage Board meeting next week or two weeks? Any idea? Bill Jeffers: When will the detail sheets be in? Bill Nicholson: I'll pick the plans up from John and discuss that with him tomorrow. I just talked with him briefly here and I'll make the changes as quickly as possible and get them back to him for his approval. President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: Two weeks from today, is that a bad Monday for your Board? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Probably need to do it either the 11th or 18th of October. Bill Nicholson: The 11th would be fine. I mean, I can get changes made and get them back to both Bill and John this week yet. Commissioner Jerrel: Why don't we schedule it maybe for-- Joe Harrison, Jr.: Six-thirty. Commissioner Jerrel: Six-fifteen. We have the legislators coming in here. Joe Harrison, Jr.: I would do it at 6:30 though. Commissioner Jerrel: Six-thirty? President Mourdock: Yeah, okay. Go ahead with a motion if you would. Joe Harrison, Jr.: No, on the...did you say the 11th or the 18th? President Mourdock: Eleventh. Joe Harrison, Jr.: Is that going to give you enough time? Bill Nicholson: The 11th would be fine. Commissioner Jerrel: Okay, then I would make a motion that we call a special Drainage Board meeting on the 11th of October at 6:30 p.m. President Mourdock: And I will say second and so ordered. Bill Jeffers: I think we already have one for the Gamble thing. President Mourdock: Okay, then we'll need to broaden the agenda. Bill Jeffers: Advertise the Gamble and then piggyback. President Mourdock: Yeah. Commissioner Jerrel: Okay. President Mourdock: Just to clarify, Bill, you had said something about having a reaffirmation. I don't know if we're...yeah, in doing what we're doing with the special there is no need to reaffirm anything, correct? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Well, what we're going to have to do is-- President Mourdock: Since we've already approved the preliminary plan we don't need to reaffirm the preliminary plan-- Joe Harrison, Jr.: Oh, no. President Mourdock: --because it's coming to us as final. Joe Harrison, Jr.: No. President Mourdock: Okay.
President Mourdock: The next item then would be Burkhardt Corner Sub...I'm sorry, Burkhardt Corner Development. Bill Jeffers: I would lay a plan on your desk for this, but after all the different things that we've discussed with the engineer and his adding all the different notes to the plan it's so cluttered at this point that it might be more confusing than if I just tell you what is going on. Burkhardt Corner Development is actually a development that is taking place on the replat of Lot 3 of Waterford Park Subdivision which is now called Lot 2 Waterford Park. It's right on the corner of Burkhardt and Vogel, right across the street from Libs and the bank there, so it's a prime piece of real estate. The developer is wishing to utilize the entire surface square footage for a retail complex with a drive-thru window for one of the retailers and that requires that he does utilize all the square footage. Therefore he is asking for underground storm water detention which has not yet been tried inside...or in the county. It has been tried inside the city limits and our research doesn't reveal any problems with their installation yet, however since our ordinance kind of contemplates open detention and open discharge I didn't feel comfortable to sign off on this in the office as a site plan at the Area Plan Site Review Committee and felt more comfortable bringing it to you. Over the past 60 days or so I have been working with Easley Engineering on completing all the details so that I felt comfortable to bring it to you. I'll just show you some pictures that were given to me by the salesman for ADS Plastics, I believe, who is specifying the parts that are going to be used in this application and he brought me a picture of a similar application on a piece of private property directly across the street from INDOT's test center, test lab, up in Indianapolis, so it's getting pretty close scrutiny and there are two views of that. To give you an idea of what they're doing, they're building a parking lot and underneath the parking lot they're putting in a system of subterranean vaults made out of high density polyethylene and then they're dropping the water down through inlets into the vault where it is held and discharged at a slow rate. In the case of the Burkhardt project I believe it's a five and a quarter inch orifice that will discharge it into the existing storm water system along Burkhardt Road. They've completed everything and Mr. Easley has presented it and stands behind it in writing and I've talked to the salesperson who has bid this and is being designed currently by his company. The Vanderburgh County Surveyor recommends approval of this plan although we don't encourage everybody to rush right out and start putting these in we do think this is an ideal spot to use it as a pilot project to see if it is going to work or not. I asked for and received a copy...I mean, a proposed maintenance manual to give to the owner of this property, operation and maintenance of underground storm water detention for his development. The owner is Ted Clark prepared by Easley Engineering and this includes what the fellow should look for and his maintenance people should look for on a continuing basis to make sure this thing is operating properly. President Mourdock: How do they in this type of system maintain control of what's going in just making sure it doesn't silt up and otherwise trash up and lose its volume? Bill Jeffers: That's what we're concerned about and it's outlined in this operating manual here. It's large. It's 48 inch diameter vaults. President Mourdock: That's not what these are. Bill Jeffers: No, those aren't, but I had another picture of those and you'll be surprised how big they are. I think they're 36 or so and some of them are 42. I should have brought that because it showed a guy standing inside one. He was crouched over walking through it, but he was walking through there. President Mourdock: How many acre feet in this one will they be holding? Just roughly? Bill Jeffers: I think it's in cubic feet rather than acres. Unidentified: (Inaudible comments made from audience.) President Mourdock: Five thousand-four hundred? Andy Easley: A little more, 5,500 cubic feet. President Mourdock: Cubic feet. Bill Jeffers: Fifty-four eighty-nine cubic feet, 1.26 acre feet. That's the feet required storage. It has an outflow rate of 1.34 cubic feet per second undeveloped and that's what he is trying to match. The orifice is only five inches. A five inch diameter orifice because it's under so much (inaudible). President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: We recommend we try this out. I think it's the best place to do it. I wouldn't want to do it out in the boonies somewhere where it is not available to take a look at on a weekly basis or after rainstorms. It's also right across the street from the piped Crawford Brandies Ditch that we're going to have to inspect frequently to make sure it's not silting up, so it's in an ideal spot to be inspected frequently. President Mourdock: Okay, is there anyone here to address the issue of Burkhardt Corner Development final reading...or final drainage plan? Is there a motion? Commissioner Jerrel: I'll make a motion that we approve the final drainage plan for Burkhardt Corner Development. President Mourdock: I will say second
and so ordered and we'll watch that one with interest. That's a different
kind of plan.
President Mourdock: Next on our list is the Ashwood replat of Lot 2. You want your photos back, Bill, or Andy? Bill Jeffers: Yeah, I'll put them back in my folder. I'd like to put those in my folder. President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: This Ashwood project has already been approved, it's under construction. They found a way to move one lot line so that they could create another lot without infringing on the floodway. That lot number is 1A. As you can see they simply moved the lot line a little bit to the north to do that. All we're asking is a reaffirmation of the final drainage plan for Ashwood so that the Area Plan Commission sees that it has been processed and there were no questions about drainage. This does not change the drainage in any way whatsoever. We do recommend it. President Mourdock: Okay, any comments from the audience on Ashwood replat of Lot 2? Is there a motion? Commissioner Jerrel: I'll move approval of Ashwood replat of Lot 2 for final drainage plans. President Mourdock: Second and so
ordered.
President Mourdock: We now go to preliminary drainage plans. The first one being Woodgate Section 2. Bill Jeffers: Okay, Woodgate Section 2 comes to you because Brad Sterchi's corporation, and Brad is sitting right here in the audience, swapped some ground with Jagoe who was the developer of North Greens and in the land swap Mr. Sterchi ended up with a piece of property just south of his proposed Woodgate Section 1. So this is just an extension southward to the branch of Little Pigeon Creek that forms its southern boundary. Basically, it would have come in all as Woodgate had he acquired this before he initiated what is now going to be known as Woodgate Section 1. So Woodgate Section 2 is a continuation south of Strawberry Hill Road to that branch of Little Pigeon Creek. It's designed by the same design engineer as the rest of Woodgate. It's basically the same layout. It has its own detention pond before it releases into Little Pigeon Creek. They have established the floodway limits and no construction will occur within those floodway limits. It will remain natural except for the one outletting pipe that takes it to the creek. This is a preliminary plan. It has received the recommendation from the County Surveyor for approval. There were remonstrators or spokespersons for other projects immediately adjacent to this one. You may find that there are with this one as well. President Mourdock: Anyone here tonight wishing to address us on Woodgate Section 2 preliminary drainage plan? Yes, ma'am. (Inaudible comments made away from mike.) President Mourdock: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you. Elvera Godeke: Elvera Godeke, 801 Eissler Road. My ground abuts Woodgate on the west and on the south. My concern is on my two concerns, on the southeast and southwest corners, we've always had a lot of water that would just pond. If you...if I may, this is the area that I am talking about. All this water from up in here comes down onto here. President Mourdock: One second here. Let me figure out where you are on this one. Commissioner Jerrel: On this map. President Mourdock: Since this one is a little larger scale. Elvera Godeke: This is my property here. President Mourdock: Right. Elvera Godeke: This is Woodgate. President Mourdock: Yeah, but I'm trying to see where-- Bill Jeffers: What Ms. Godeke is holding in her hand is a proposed layout for Woodgate 1 and the points she is addressing are substantially north of and not anywhere near adjacent to Woodgate 2. Woodgate 1 has received preliminary approval while Ms. Godeke was here in the audience, but since that time we've met with her and Mr. Sterchi and representatives of the Soil & Water Conservation District and others as well as the design engineer in the field and during a field meeting Mr. Sterchi declared that he would do whatever was necessary to address Ms. Godeke's concerns as a part of his final drainage plan and that's not under consideration at this time. President Mourdock: How does Woodgate 1 and 2, how do they fit together? Bill Jeffers: Strawberry Hill Road. Elvera Godeke: I didn't understand the procedure when I was here at the first one, so that's why I didn't get up and speak. That was the first time I had been down here so I didn't know the procedure, but I always have a pond here and there has got to be more than a swale. I think you have told me there was going to be like a swale-- Bill Jeffers: Here is Strawberry Hill Road here so Woodgate...the one you're looking at, Woodgate 2, is down here. President Mourdock: Okay. Commissioner Jerrel: Okay, so-- Elvera Godeke: They're telling me there is going to be a swale and like a berm, but you're not telling me how deep a swale or how high the berm, so if this isn't taken care of this is going to have to be more than a swale. It's going to have to be a ditch to carry that water that comes off of here down into this corner. Bill Jeffers: Ms. Godeke has a legitimate concern and it has been discussed with, as I said, the design engineer, the developer, Mr. Sterchi, was present when we discussed it. Also representatives of the Soil & Water Conservation District were on hand. I cannot tell you at this time how deep the ditch will be, how wide, how tall the berm, etc., until the final drainage plans are produced by Morley and Associates and presented to us for review. At that time we will review them in an attempt to make sure that everything done is sufficient and Mr. Sterchi has made the statement in all of our presence including Ms. Godeke that he will do whatever it takes to make sure it's sufficient. President Mourdock: So we have not acted on Woodgate 1? Elvera Godeke: If he comes over on my ground to do it. Commissioner Jerrel: Yes, we have. Elvera Godeke: If he comes over on my ground to do it is what he said. Bill Jeffers: That's correct because what you're concerned about exists on your ground. President Mourdock: We have not acted on Woodgate 1? Commissioner Jerrel: Yes. Bill Jeffers: We have acted on a preliminary plan for Woodgate 1 just as we are now being asked to act on a preliminary plan for Woodgate 2. There have been no final plans presented for Woodgate 1 or 2. President Mourdock: And when do you expect them for Woodgate 1 or do we have any idea? Bill Jeffers: That would be a question that would have to be addressed to the developer and his engineer. Brad Sterchi: I'm expecting that at the next meeting. President Mourdock: At our next meeting? Brad Sterchi: In one month. President Mourdock: Okay. Commissioner Jerrel: But you will-- Joe Harrison, Jr.: You might want to come up. President Mourdock: Yeah, please come to the microphone and state your name. Brad Sterchi: I'm Brad Sterchi. I'm the developer. First of all, Woodgate 2 has no water draining through Ms. Godeke's property that I am aware of. Her concerns on Woodgate 1 I'm going to make an offer in writing to her to put some grassways in to keep her property from eroding. I've done that verbally. Before the final drainage meeting I will be doing that. But basically in talking to the farmer that farms her ground they want all the water to go a different course which isn't possible, but I'm willing to enhance her property to keep her from having any problems. Again, Woodgate 2 has no water going through her property that I am aware of. Elvera Godeke: It all flows down. This is the new area. It's all flowing down into this lake and then they're wanting to run it over here on the other corner onto me. Now this should run this way. The flow of the ground runs this way. Why should this run into this lake and then be directed back onto me? President Mourdock: Let me ask the question of Mr. Jeffers. Currently, Bill, and may I see your map, Ms. Godeke? Is the topography, Bill, such that presently, Mr. Sterchi, you're welcome to look in here too, is the topography such that presently drainage is going to the southwest from this area? Elvera Godeke: It should all go this way, but it's...and all from way back up in here this is all flowing down into this lake. President Mourdock: That's the question. Let me see if they'll answer that question first. Brad Sterchi: My drainage is going to come out to here and go this way. She doesn't want my drainage to go this way. They want it to go this way. President Mourdock: But my question is where is it going now before any of this is done? Brad Sterchi: Through here. Bill Jeffers: Well, there are areas of it-- Elvera Godeke: This way. Bill Jeffers: There are areas-- President Mourdock: Oh, I see the topo now. Bill Jeffers: --that are exiting down through here. Of course this area up here goes across her land like this. President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: It crosses the corner of her land right here. What they're doing is they're going to route everything through the lake and back out this corner. President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: There is some sheet flow...what she is saying to some extent is true. There is some sheet flow off this natural land in this direction that won't be directed through that that is not presently directed through her waterway right here. President Mourdock: So there would be some increased flow through that ditch at times of high runoff after detention? Bill Jeffers: Right. And Mr. Sterchi, if I understood what he was saying, has assured us that he will improve this area to handle that. Brad Sterchi: I'm going to make her an offer of putting a green strip through here and sowing the grass, but I told her she has to give me written permission to be able to do that. President Mourdock: Sure, right. Brad Sterchi: And it doesn't appear to me that she is wanting to do that. Elvera Godeke: You have not approached me with anything yet. Nothing definite. President Mourdock: Okay, wait a minute here. Elvera Godeke: And when you approached me you approached me with my farmer because he is the one that guides me. Bill Jeffers: Really, before we get too far into the review of Woodgate 1 I think we should probably stick to Woodgate 2 which does not have any affect whatsoever on the area that Ms. Godeke is addressing. Commissioner Jerrel: I just have one question. When you do the final plan presentation will Woodgate 1 and Woodgate 2 probably be done together or not? Bill Jeffers: If that's the wishes of the Board I'll convey those wishes to the design engineer and ask that he...it would be a simple matter to combine them both together into one review. Commissioner Jerrel: I don't know. It's just that's it difficult to think about. I mean, I see what you're saying. We need to go ahead. This one doesn't apply to her. Bill Jeffers: Mr. Sears is here and, Mr. Sears, what I would like you to do when you present the final plan for Woodgate 1 and 2 is to present them together as a unit. President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: So they can review the whole thing at one meeting. President Mourdock: Again, I did hear Mr. Sterchi say and I have every reason to think it's in good faith that he is going to make some presentation to Ms. Godeke and other representatives that she may choose and trust you'll carry through with that and when that comes to the final...when we see the final hearing we would certainly like evidence of whatever you have worked out. Brad Sterchi: I will send a copy to you guys also. President Mourdock: Okay. Anyone else to speak on Woodgate Section 2? Commissioner Jerrel: Yes. President Mourdock: Oh, sure. Albert McDowell: My name is Albert McDowell. I live at 529 Strawberry Hill, basically the third house on the end on the south side of Strawberry Hill which will face...have new neighbors in the backyard. We all thought this has been kind of inevitable that it's going to be coming. It's kind of surprising. We call it Lake Old State, some of us, or Lake Strawberry Hill because there has been quite a few times that when it rains that it has been up to almost a foot in water in that field. I've got some pictures. One is from before they put the new bridge in that comes down Old State Road or Strawberry Hill and some are just this last year. In fact, the drainage that comes out the final pipe at the end of the hill at Old State comes out through my side yard and then makes a curve around the back and goes down in a concrete lined ditch to the west. Now when it gets a hard enough rain the water flows back east up through there and it comes up through there at a pretty good clip and pretty deep. The main concern with several of my neighbors beside us is with this water additional and the water coming off the back of these houses and stuff it's going to force it possibly back up through our yards and stuff. We've had water in the house one time in the garage, one time in 19 years approximately and that was back in `96, but that was an unusual deluging. I have some pictures if you would like to look at them that shows them. These are from `96. President Mourdock: I bet it was June of `96. Commissioner Jerrel: I bet it was. Albert McDowell: And these are just this last year because I put a backstop up for my side to work at. These are like an inch and a half to a two inch rain. Yeah, we had neighbors rafting down the street it got so deep. President Mourdock: On the map here where do you live, Mr. McDowell. Commissioner Jerrel: Right here. Albert McDowell: I live right here. This pipe...in fact, I came before the Commissioners, right, when Mr. Wilner was in charge and it was kind of a joke because he informed me that the storm sewers in Old State Subdivision were never accepted for maintenance by the county because the one that comes through my side yard was caving in. We had some other problems up here on the corner where massive manholes disappeared and we haven't seen those since they built some houses up here on the curve. We kind of wonder what happened to them. So I had to repair them out of my own pocket because he said it was our responsibility and that's what we're concerned...another thing is if things are put in that they are put in properly not just as it seems like some of ours are put in. The water here comes down, turns and goes this way. This backs up through here. In fact, the gentleman here and I have talked about and I preliminary talked to Joe about leveling our yards off back to the tree line or the property line here so it doesn't have the big dip down because sometimes this back in here would be oh, maybe two or two and a half feet deep sometimes. The water comes down and then it comes back down through here and this whole field floods. In fact, one neighbor was trying to dig up a picture showing me canoeing through the back field. Bill Jeffers: You were going to fill your yard in where? Albert McDowell: This right here. Bill Jeffers: You can't do that. That's an easement. Albert McDowell: Oh, is that an easement? Oh, okay. Bill Jeffers: The reason it is 30 feet wide is because the design engineer in the 1960's knew that when this creek got high enough it would flow that way and it's a natural watercourse. Albert McDowell: Yeah, the reason they put the pipe in here was when it first was built the gentleman that lived here is deceased now said all these houses flooded so that's why they went ahead and added this in. Bill Jeffers: But I mean that 30...the reason that is 30 feet wide, that easement back there, is because it's needed. Albert McDowell: Alright. President Mourdock: Give you another reason why you don't want to do that is because one of your neighbors will end up suing you because we see that in this meeting all the time. Albert McDowell: Yeah, well we all talked about doing it together, so that's the thing. But that's the...we were just trying to level it off because I have a shed that sits right here and it's almost had water in it umpteen times. But that's the main concern we've got because we know this is going to happen and several...the gentleman next to me, in fact, works with the building trade and said the gentleman building it is very reputable and would be very good to work with, but that's a big concern. Just as long as we don't get flooded out. President Mourdock: Sure, we understand. Thank you, Mr. McDowell. Commissioner Jerrel: Thank you. President Mourdock: Bill, do you wish to address any of the comments Mr. McDowell has made? Bill Jeffers: All the concerns addressed to you by that gentleman are accurate and valid. We've asked for a separation of drainage plans between Woodgate 2 and Old State 1. He lives in Old State 1. I do have in my possession the original plans done by Sam Biggerstaff that designed Old State 1 and the plans were very detailed, very accurate and very sufficient except for the bridge that you replaced. That bridge was designed for a ten year storm and it says so on the plans. Those plans were approved back in the `60's. They would never have been approved today for a ten year storm at that bridge. That bridge opening not only would only...not only would that bridge opening only allow a ten year storm to pass through it, but when in 1996 the storm exceeded a 100 year storm it was clogged full of debris and that's what forced the water over the top of the road and down into these people's homes because the water took a course that was unnatural down through the streets rather than staying in its designated floodway. President Mourdock: As a bit of an aside, have you inspected that recently to make sure we don't have any clogging or plugging going under the new bridge? Bill Jeffers: That is not the responsibility-- President Mourdock: I know. Bill Jeffers: That responsibility was removed from the County Surveyor and given to the County Engineer. President Mourdock: I know, I just thought maybe you had been out there and looked. Bill Jeffers: Not officially. We've asked for a separation of these two plans and we've asked that this plan that is being presented to you as Woodgate 2 will gather, convey the storm water to its own detention basin and discharge it into the creek at a location remote from and considerably downstream of these folks who already live there, their property. I might add that I believe all that property was offered for sale to these folks and only one person took the offer. Unidentified: Sir, that's not true. Bill Jeffers: Okay. President Mourdock: Any other comments regarding Woodgate Section 2? Yes, you need to come forward and state your name please. Richard Parker: My name is Richard Parker and I live in North Greens. In Lot 24 in North Greens Subdivision. I think I'm representing somewhat of a whole list of people that we all have concerns as to the Little Pigeon Creek rise and fall. It can rise pretty fast and we all witnessed in the last two to three years here. I think we all have concerns as to if this new Woodgate Subdivision 2 is approved and they have to raise the grade levels and stuff over there to get above the 100 year floodplain that's going to reduce the width of the drainage area there thus, in my opinion, increasing the height of the water that gets in there. Now, if you had been up there and lived up there and saw the water coming up around you back in `96-- President Mourdock: I was there. Richard Parker: --it was pretty frightening. If you're basically going to add more lots in there and the quicker runoff on the streets other than just soil you're basically just fueling the fire and we all know what the potential that creek, that stream, has because we've all seen it in action. I have several people behind me here that have a lot of photographs. In an attempt to shorten the meeting a little bit here I thought maybe rather than each of us individually they might bring up the photographs and collectively show them to you. President Mourdock: That would be fine. Commissioner Jerrel: What is your-- Richard Parker: Because we all have concerns about this. Commissioner Jerrel: What is your address? Richard Parker: I live on Lot 24 in North Greens which is 7235 Forest Green. There is a cul-de-sac at the end of my street. When that creek...when the creek, whatever the correct pronunciation is, back in `96 if this was a 100 year flood it occurred twice in six weeks. It has...the creek has got out many times since then. Not quite the magnitude that it did in `96, but it has that potential. I think if we just increased the runoff over in that area it's just going to fuel the fire that already exists up there. I guess my general comment is with all the possible available land why is it necessary to put a subdivision extension into an area that's, you know, highly flood prone? Bill Jeffers: Again, 99 percent of what the gentleman just told you is accurate and did happen and his concerns are 100 percent valid. However, I would point out that what he said was said by those people in Petersburg Place when North Greens was built, with all the land that is available why do they have to build behind us. However a HEC II study has been done on the creek and it is shown on this preliminary plan and that shows you what the 100 year floodway is. The 100 year floodway for the information of those in the audience is the area on either side of the channel that would show you the width of the channel plus the part of the floodplain that is absolutely required to pass a 100 year storm down through this creek floodway and on into the next receiving stream which is Little Pigeon Creek. That's the width that the computer model shows as absolutely necessary to pass that floodwater and no construction will occur within that floodway to raise an obstruction within that floodway. Now as far as construction within a floodplain in the state of Indiana no fill can occur on any one project on a floodplain that would raise the elevation of a 100 year flood greater than .15 feet or approximately...is that correct? Which is like say an inch and a half. President Mourdock: And regarding the comments that Mr. Parker made specific to the idea-- Bill Jeffers: That would not have flooded any house in North Greens. The houses in North Green on June 9, 1996 would not have been flooded by an increase of .15 foot of floodwater. It would have taken substantially more than that to have flooded any house in North Greens. I went out and marked the high water in North Greens and there was not one house flooded. Any house that was even...yes, they had water way up in their front yards running down the street but Jagoe did construct even the garage floors above...two feet above the 100 year flood. President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: As far as the 100 year flood occurring more than once per 100 years, yes, it occurred twice in 1996. It's a percentage thing, it's not an annual thing. It has a one percent change of happening in any 12 sequential months. President Mourdock: Okay, ma'am. Monica Weiss: My name is Monica Weiss and I live 7021 Southport Drive. That's the northeast corner of the Old Petersburg Place Subdivision. I'll be brief because I have basically the same comments as the gentleman that just spoke. I too have pictures from `96. The Little Pigeon Creek runs on two sides of my property, on the north side and on the east side. The water comes out of there readily and I've experienced about a four foot erosion of the banks where the drainage pipe connects into the stream. Within the last three years there is a large chunk of property that has floated on down the stream, so I'm worried about that creek getting bigger and bigger as more and more water tries to funnel through there. A large part of the water draining off Old Petersburg Place Subdivision drains to that corner. In `96, although I didn't experience any flooding, it was within inches of both my front door and my back door and did get in my garage. My concern is how does this affect me? Are we trying to funnel more water through the same pipe? Commissioner Jerrel: Bill, would you take the map and show her-- Bill Jeffers: What is your address, ma'am? Monica Weiss: It's 7021 Southport Drive, northeast corner of Old Petersburg Place. Bill Jeffers: Oh, right. Monica Weiss: Not too far from the gentleman that just spoke. Bill Jeffers: You're in Petersburg Place? Monica Weiss: Correct, the northeast corner. Bill Jeffers: There is about, oh, eight to ten houses in Petersburg Place whose garages flooded. Monica Weiss: Yes. Bill Jeffers: That's true and that's why North Greens...that happened earlier on about ten years ago and that's why we asked North Greens to get their garage floors up higher is what...you know, back then when your house was built it was not a requirement of ours or of the state or federal government for the garage floor only the dwelling, but as you know a lot of people turn their garages into family rooms. Monica Weiss: I guess the main thing-- Bill Jeffers: This water won't go through-- Monica Weiss: It won't come my way? Bill Jeffers: Let me think. This goes behind your house? Monica Weiss: Yes. Bill Jeffers: This channel joins with the other part of Little Pigeon behind your house down there where Southport and Bob Court joins. Monica Weiss: That's where my house is. Bill Jeffers: Right, it will go...your next door neighbor-- Monica Weiss: David Schminke. Bill Jeffers: David Schminke. Monica Weiss: Yes. Bill Jeffers: It will join behind his...upstream and behind his house. This will not come through that man-made ditch directly behind your house. Monica Weiss: Well, what bothers me is I have seen erosion of that drainage ditch in the last few years-- Bill Jeffers: Yes. Monica Weiss: --and when you start pumping more water through there it's only going to get worse. Bill Jeffers: Right. President Mourdock: But, Bill, you're saying because of the location that ditch, that erosion that is occurring is not going to be affected by what is happening here? Bill Jeffers: I can't say that. Water from here might join with other backwater and back into her ditch. Monica Weiss: That happens too. It backs up. Bill Jeffers: That will happen here. This water can join with other water in Little Pigeon Creek and back up into her ditch behind her house. Monica Weiss: That happens. Bill Jeffers: But this water here will not pass as headwater coming through. President Mourdock: Okay. Monica Weiss: That's all I have. Thank you. President Mourdock: Okay, thank you, Ms. Weiss. Diana Wellmeier: My name is Diana Wellmeier. I live at 517 Strawberry Hill. I echo what most of the other people have said and we agree that Mr. Sterchi is a very reputable developer. We just are concerned that we would like to be presented with the actual drainage plan for the area. If Mr. Sterchi would like to collectively speak to all of us we would like to understand what the plan is. I don't know that this is the forum for it and I don't think that it is, but we would just like to understand it better so that we could understand what is happening behind us in this proposed subdivision. Obviously, as Mr. Mourdock explained there has been no creek inspection. That's all well and good that the money was spent to open the ditch beneath Strawberry Hill coming down the hill, but we're concerned that, you know, that does no good if there has not been a creek inspection to determine that it is clear and flowing free. When it starts to rain again we would like to have that inspected so that we, as homeowners, would have that taken care of. President Mourdock: And understand something that my question was specific to the bridge because-- Diana Wellmeier: I agree. President Mourdock: --that creek is not the county's property. Diana Wellmeier: Right. President Mourdock: We have no control over that. Diana Wellmeier: Right, I understand that you don't control that, but the concern is echoed that the drainage throughout there affects all of us property owners behind there. President Mourdock: Sure. Diana Wellmeier: Because that property...the property where we are when it rains...when we have a two inch rain the two inch concrete ditch behind me fills up and flows backward. So we're concerned with proper creek inspection for that. We're concerned that there maybe should be a redesigned drainage plan. The subdivision where we live was built and developed and the drainage was developed in the `60's as was mentioned. When that was developed there was no Old Petersburg Place. There was no Villas at Deerfield. There was no Woodgate 1. There was no Woodgate 2. There was no North Greens. All of that property drains into those creeks and into the ditch behind my house and that was not designed to handle all of that drainage. Commissioner Jerrel: I have a question. Now will they be renotified or will they just be...I mean, just telling everybody the night of the final? Diana Wellmeier: We would appreciate it if we could be renotified. Commissioner Jerrel: So that they can hear the final drainage plan and examine it. Diana Wellmeier: And just understand it as property owners. Not complain or go against Mr. Sterchi, but just to understand it. Commissioner Jerrel: Right, I understood what you meant. Bill Jeffers: They will not be renotified. However, if there is that much concern about it...I will point out all the subdivisions she just named are downstream and away from her property. All the water she is referring to is away from...southeasterly away from the property. All the subdivisions that she named that have come in occupy ground downstream in the watershed away from here. Diana Wellmeier: I thought the Villas at Deerfield drained down towards-- Bill Jeffers: Oh, I'm sorry, you did mention those, right. That's one small subdivision out of them. Diana Wellmeier: Right, and that drains down towards us and you're right that it should all drain away, but in a simple two inch rain it all drains backward onto us. President Mourdock: Right, we've heard that comment several times. Diana Wellmeier: Thank you. If the developer could just maybe meet with us and just collectively explain all of his process that's fine. My last thing is that the property was not offered to us for sale. Bill Jeffers: I'm sorry, I probably spoke out of turn. There was a couple of guys on your street that told me that that guy down there bought that property when it was offered to him and the rest of them didn't want it. I was speaking out of turn, so scratch that remark. Why don't we just ask the developer to direct his engineer to have this ready a week or so ahead of the next drainage meeting that they want to bring it to and we'll go out and have a field meeting with these concerned property owners and have them take a look at it out there. I would like to point out that this is the only opportunity that our office has to review private property. Private property rights as dictated by the State of Indiana statutes prohibit us from trespassing on private property without a warrant to take a look at anybody's creek. We have in fact at the invitation of several people gone up through there and identified a lot of obstructions and turned that information over to them. However, it remains the responsibility of the private property owner to maintain their own waterways and so forth and with their invitation I'll be happy to take this plan out and walk up and down in people's backyard, but only with their invitation. Diana Wellmeier: You're welcome to walk through mine. Bill Jeffers: Okay. Commissioner Jerrel: Yes, sir. President Mourdock: You need to come forward again, Mr. Parker. Richard Parker: If I might just add one comment. I think it was last year that the Ohio River reached its highest stage since 1964. We experienced this flooding back in `96 and I think the river was at a low level then. I was just wondering if in a hypothetical situation what would occur if the Ohio River was at a high level, Pigeon Creek wasn't able to drain properly, and all of these tributaries that feed into Pigeon Creek if we was to get a substantial rainfall, here again this is an unusual situation, has there ever been a study on that as to what might occur? Bill Jeffers: Yeah, there has. A study was done by the Corps of Engineers in 1981 of all of Pigeon Creek watershed up to Hillsdale Road and that study is available for viewing. The water would have been about 700 feet wide down and across Hamilton Golf Course. Flowing water, now, that is not backwater, and all of Petersburg Place would have be inundated up to within two feet. Including North Greens and everywhere else all of that would have been within two feet of flooding every finished floor elevation in there. The houses in North Greens would have been protected. The ones in Old State 1, some of the split levels that have basements and so forth, the basements would have been flooded. I would point out that the drainage plan that I have in my possession from Sam Biggerstaff for Old State 1 said I gave the protected grade for all those houses some of which were not adhered to. President Mourdock: Okay. Yeah, Mr. Sterchi. Okay, go ahead. Richard Parker: With the additional burden of possibly 150 lots, is it with Woodgate 1, I'm not familiar with that plat, and another 33 lots is this not going to increase-- Bill Jeffers: That's in legal terms a scintilla. You're talking about 14 to 15 square mile watershed. You know, this watershed that you're talking about goes all the way from Pigeon Creek back up 41 all the way to Inglefield Road all the way out Old State Road to Browning Road. Back down Browning Road all through...you know, you're talking about coming back down Old Petersburg Road. That's the divide way over there. All that ground up, you know, all the way out almost to the Hornet's Nest. You know, you're talking 14 square miles. President Mourdock: Let me take another shot at that question. I think what your question is Bill may have addressed a little bit earlier. Your question is would that development cause this by otherwise displacing water in this development cause water to rise in the other areas, right? Richard Parker: In the creek basin itself and seek a higher level than it did back in `96. President Mourdock: Right, and Bill's comment was that we could not approve this, this would not meet the statutes if in fact all the development in here once it's completed if it raised that level more than .14, is that what you said, feet, then we could not approve it. Richard Parker: Okay, that answers my question. President Mourdock: Okay. Okay, Mr. Sterchi. Brad Sterchi: I'm Brad Sterchi again. I want these people to understand that I have no reason to believe that my project is going to flood them any further, that I wouldn't proceed on it if I thought that it would. That I do want a good working relationship with them and in all previous developments that I've done I have received no flood complaints after the fact and I would be glad to meet with them prior to the final drainage approval if they will call me and set it up. Commissioner Jerrel: If we go ahead and do the preliminary then will you all take care of the meeting with the neighbors? Brad Sterchi: Like I said, all they have got to do is call me and I'll be glad to meet with them. Commissioner Jerrel: How are we going to do this though? I always like to know how it is going to get organized. President Mourdock: I think what Mr. Sterchi is saying is that anyone who individually wants to call you you're willing to sit down with them or if a group of four or five of them get together and say we'd like to meet you at a certain time you're willing to do that, is that right? Brad Sterchi: Sure. Commissioner Jerrel: Okay, Well, Ms. Wellmeier-- Diana Wellmeier: Can I have your number? Brad Sterchi: 867-0915. I do expect to be a good neighbor to them. President Mourdock: Okay, thank you. Yes, Ms. Godeke. Elvera Godeke: Elvera Godeke again. I have my farmer that has farmed my ground, Marvin Heilman, which is now Woodgate, for the last 25 years. He was working out in the field late tonight so he just got here. He would like to have Sterchi explain to him just what he is going to do for my problems. President Mourdock: Okay. Commissioner Jerrel: Maybe...could we do this because that isn't on tonight's agenda, but, Mr. Sterchi, could you meet with-- Brad Sterchi: That's part of Woodgate 1 and I went over it with him on the telephone. You know, he is just dead set that I'm going to take it a different course than what the natural drainage is, but I'd be glad to meet with him. President Mourdock: Okay. We don't have a good map of that in front of us. Perhaps the map you had earlier, Ms. Godeke, maybe you could talk about that in the hallway or something. Okay, alright thank you. Okay, I appreciate all the comments of everyone and, Mr. Sterchi, I appreciate the fact that you're willing to meet with folks and try to work through this. Bettye Lou. Commissioner Jerrel: Yeah, Ms. Godeke, maybe you all can meet, you know, maybe right outside since that isn't on this, do you think with Mr. Sterchi? Okay, I would like for preliminary drainage plan I'll move approval of the Woodgate Section 2. President Mourdock: And I will say on preliminary plan second and approved and I noticed your hand went up. Again, I just want to clarify what we're dealing with right now is Woodgate 2 and based on Ms. Godeke's questions earlier it seemed most of those were on Woodgate 1 which is not before us. Unidentified: Can I ask you one question on that? Is that water going to go to the south or is that water going to go to the east off of his property that they're working on now? President Mourdock: Off Woodgate 1? Bill Jeffers: Off Woodgate 2 it will go to the south and into a natural creek channel which flows southeasterly. Unidentified: When it gets to the creek it goes to that corner that they're going to develop? Bill Jeffers: I don't know what he is talking about. Brad Sterchi: I'd be glad to meet you outside. President Mourdock: Yeah, and again
I don't have a map in front of me and I would like to see those questions
answered on a map, so when that one comes back to us on final certainly
you'll have the chance to see where it is at. Okay, alright thank you.
President Mourdock: Next one on our schedule this evening is Enterprise Park, Bill. Thank you all. Bill Jeffers: Enterprise Park is a commercial and/or industrial subdivision on the east side of I-164 immediately north of Oak Grove Road. It has legal drains on two sides, Nurrenbern Ditch and Kelly Ditch. The plan is sufficient and contains sufficient details for approval of a preliminary plan with the exception that I'm not quite ready to give the Surveyor's blessing on a 35 foot relaxation of the drainage, you know, easement, but we'll work that out on the final, so therefore we recommend the approval of the preliminary plan. I'm just forewarning the developer we're probably not going to go all the way down to 35 feet. President Mourdock: Okay. Anyone here wishing to address Enterprise Park on preliminary? Michael Sears: My name is Michael Sears. I'm with Morley and Associates and I assisted with the plan preparation. I hadn't had a chance to get back with Bill, but we did talk with the developer and I think when we discussed the project we requested 50 feet and he didn't have a problem with that. Bill Jeffers: The 50 feet will be plenty. Michael Sears: So we will be showing that change on the final plan. Commissioner Jerrel: Okay. Was there anyone else? President Mourdock: Anyone else for Enterprise Park? Commissioner Jerrel: Then I'll make a motion to approve the preliminary drainage plans for Enterprise Park. President Mourdock: And I will say
second and so ordered for preliminary Enterprise Park.
President Mourdock: Next is Stonecreek Subdivision and two separate ones, Section 1 and 2. Bill Jeffers: Oh, we'll just do them all together. President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: Since it's preliminary. Stonecreek Subdivision will be located on the west side of Seib Road at Seib Road's intersection with Kansas Road and 57. President Mourdock: So north is that way, right? Yeah, okay. Bill Jeffers: So you're looking...north is that way, right. It has Furlick Creek running down through it. Furlick Creek drains the Viehe Park, McCutchanville Park area. You have an existing subdivision being developed on the north end which is Eagle Crossing. You have existing subdivisions being developed across Kansas Road on the south side which is Windemere Farms, etc., Camden Farms and then there is a large vacant piece of property on the west side of the creek that is still farm ground. This has been before you earlier as McJohnston Heights. This is a superior plan to McJohnston Heights' plan which was approved. This one has more small lakes scattered out over a broader area to gather up storm water and convey it properly into Furlick Creek. I've colored those up in yellow so you can see the locations of, I believe, six different ponds. The PUDs are colored up separately so you can see where the PUDs fit into the single family...I mean, all of it is single family, but PUD is like zero lot line type of thing. Then there is a little green area down there at the corner where that is going to be set aside for commercial because the Area Plan Commission wanted Seib Road to be relocated along that dashed red line for traffic reasons, etc. That met with the approval of the residents that had comments when it was McJohnston Heights. But it effectively cut off that corner down there for residential development. Okay, so having said all that it's going to come back to you most likely in pieces for final approval and those pieces will be scrutinized very closely. There may be some concern still out there in that area and the Vanderburgh County Surveyor recommends approval of the preliminary plan for all parts of Stonegate plus the two PUDs. President Mourdock: Anyone here to-- Bill Jeffers: Stonecreek. President Mourdock: --speak on Stonecreek Section 1 or 2? Glen Schlensker: Glen Schlensker representing Francis and Eloise Erskine which would be the farm owners which he referred to. The concern is just so that it gets on record that we were here. We have met with the developers and have been assured that there will be plenty of grade and drainage for that real estate in the future and I hope that the final plan shows those things. The other thing is a concern, I think, for some others here that may speak later, but as Commissioners, which is your other hat you wear, make sure that the elevation of the relocated Seib Road is no lower than the lowest elevation of Kansas Road or you'll have a road that is underwater when that final plan comes through. President Mourdock: We'll keep that one in mind. Thank you, Mr. Schlensker. Commissioner Jerrel: I'm going to write myself a note on that. President Mourdock: Yeah, that has flooded in there many times. Richard Seib: I'm Richard Seib, 10707 Seib Road. It was noted McJohnston Heights was approved provided Seib Road be moved. I think PUD 1, which is on the west side, or PUD 2, which is on the west side of Furlick Creek-- President Mourdock: Yeah, 2 is on the west side. Richard Seib: Okay, I want to be sure that Seib Road is moved before any houses are built which this was agreed upon when Clem Frank was the...had requested approval. President Mourdock: Was Mr. Frank the original developer of McJohnston? Richard Seib: Yes, and he turned it over to the present developer. President Mourdock: Okay. And who is that, Bill? Bill Jeffers: This plan is being presented on behalf of Jagoe. Richard Seib: Yeah, Jagoe. Bill Jeffers: And the agreements to which Mr. Seib is referring were reached in Area Plan Commission, I believe. Commissioner Jerrel: Are they in writing? Bill Jeffers: I'm just looking at drainage and that road will be elevated above what flooded in 1996. Commissioner Jerrel: Wait a minute, we have some...you want to look and see if those are... Richard Seib: One of my concerns on the flooding of Seib Road is that down through the years only one car that I know of was actually stranded on Seib Road because of the high water. With all the new homes being built and people being unfamiliar with Seib Road they're not as familiar as we were so we would back up. We wouldn't even try to go through it. I'm concerned if that Seib Road is not raised high enough with all the new people coming in we're going to have a problem getting out. Commissioner Jerrel: I'm going to give you the copy, my copy, I can get another one from him. This is the subdivision from the Area Plan, not the drainage, and you might want to read through those minutes. That's what was entered into and make sure that sounds right because that was done at Area Plan. What is the date on that, Mr. Schlensker? Richard Seib: October the 6th. Commissioner Jerrel: Yeah, October 6. Joe Harrison, Jr.: Of what year? Richard Seib: `99. Commissioner Jerrel: That can't be. President Mourdock: That's when it is scheduled for hearing. Commissioner Jerrel: Wait a minute. Bill Jeffers: Oh, you know what that is? That's a staff field report that's going to them. Commissioner Jerrel: Yeah, it hasn't been there yet, but this is what was-- Bill Jeffers: But as McJohnston Heights they reached some certain agreements, I believe. Commissioner Jerrel: That's what...these are in there I think. Just read over this. This is what is coming up, but it includes the minutes of what happened before. Joe Harrison, Jr.: It's going to go to Area Plan. Commissioner Jerrel: Yeah, that's going to Area Plan the 6th, but make sure that everything is in there from the previous. President Mourdock: Your comments are certainly noted regarding the need for the elevation of the road and for the timing. On the Drainage Board we have to deal just with what the drainage issue is, but if that was the deal or the agreement that was struck at the time that it was going through Area Plan as McJohnston it may already be taken care of and we just don't have those notes, but certainly from the Commissioners' point of view we can make sure the elevation is there. Commissioner Jerrel: Right, and I'm sorry I called you Mr. Schlensker. You're Mr. Schlensker and you're Mr. Seib. I know the difference. Glen Schlensker: I'm Mr. Schlensker. Bill Jeffers: Who said Erskine first? Glen Schlensker: I'm present for Francis and Eloise Erskine. Bill Jeffers: Oh. Commissioner Jerrel: He is representing their interest. Glen Schlensker: Glen Schlensker is my name. I was here a year or two ago when you did Windemere, the site plan for it, and once again we want to remind Mr. Jeffers the water did go over Kansas Road in 1996. He at that time informed you people that it did not and it's his word against mine. I live there-- Bill Jeffers: Wait a minute. The engineer that designed it informed me that it didn't. President Mourdock: Okay. Glen Schlensker: Okay, anyway, just to make sure he knew how deep the water got. Thanks. President Mourdock: And to make sure he remembers your name, right? Okay, anyone else wishing to speak on Stonecreek? Yes, ma'am. Sara Seib: I'm Sara Seib of 10707 Seib Road. I'm concerned about the northeast corner of this 100 acre property. That's a pretty good sized rise and I wondering how much is going to be taken off of there, is anything going to be taken off of that knoll and if so what will the height be? President Mourdock: The plans that we have which have the topography on them do not show any type of drainage structure in the northeast corner and that shows with the street plan through there basically the same contour, so apparently there is not going to be any excavation of sorts in there. Bill, do you know anything different than that? Bill Jeffers: I'm sure they'll be some dirt moved, but I haven't seen any street plans or that type of thing that will come in with the final plan to indicate what kind of grade cuts there will be. Commissioner Jerrel: You want to speak to this for her? Ron London: My name is Ron London. I'm with Morley and Associates. So far this is a preliminary plan so the road plans will be submitted and approved before the final drainage plans can be approved. Right now we know that some dirt will be taken off that hill, but how much we can't say right now. I can't give you an accurate number. I don't know if it is going to be five feet or if it is going to be two feet. President Mourdock: What is the dirt going to be used for? Ron London: Elevate these and fill-- President Mourdock: Where the road is being relocated? Ron London: Some lower portions, correct. Most of these lakes are going to be used for fill also. President Mourdock: The same thing? Ron London: Yes. Right now I couldn't get you an accurate number as how much is going to be taken off that hill, but some dirt will be taken off. Sara Seib: Well, the type dirt that is up there right now is a Hosmer Silt Loam B2 and B3. Those are two severely eroded classifications. If this is lowered and Eagle Crossing is at a height then what will be done for the erosion control for the drop-off? What grade will there be? Those are our concerns. President Mourdock: Sure. Ron London: We will not be dropping the grade lower...we would not want to drop it any lower than Eagle Crossing. I mean, we would want to match whatever lots are along the back of Eagle Crossing we would want to match on this side also. President Mourdock: Okay. Sara Seib: When will the final topography be ready? President Mourdock: When will your final drainage plan be ready, Ron? Ron London: Two or three months. President Mourdock: So 60-- Ron London: I can't give her any exact number, but it's quite a big job so it's going to take us a while. I'd say at earliest two months. Commissioner Jerrel: How can we...could you take Ms. Seib's phone number so she could be alerted when you do plan to come because they won't be notified. Ron London: Sure. Sara Seib: This may seem like a small problem with this, but mosquitos in this area are already a bother. If they don't take down any trees, which they probably will not, they're beautiful trees and I would hate to see them go, but if we are adding these seven or eight retention ponds how much is going to be left down there for mosquitos to breed? St. Louis encephalitis is a concern in this area. We have those mosquitos here. Commissioner Jerrel: What is your phone number, Ms. Seib, so he can call you? Go ahead, I'm sorry. Tom Hansen: My name is Tom Hansen, I'm with Jagoe. We had an informational meeting on the 22nd with several of the residents out there. We have their names and addresses. Commissioner Jerrel: Oh, okay. Tom Hansen: And we want to continue to meet with them throughout the entire planning process. Commissioner Jerrel: Okay. President Mourdock: Does that include the Seibs? Tom Hansen: Yes. President Mourdock: Were they at the meeting? Okay. Commissioner Jerrel: Okay, just so they're informed when the finals...okay. President Mourdock: And regarding your question on the mosquitos and the basins there. The basins that are put in, those are full-time basins, they're not just dry basins, correct? Ron London: Yes, they're to be full-time. President Mourdock: Okay. Ron London: Wet basins. President Mourdock: But in saying full-time wet basins-- Sara Seib: So we could have a mosquito problem? President Mourdock: Well, you have a creek there now that could give you a mosquito problem, too, though. Sara Seib: We've have that already. This will exacerbate the problem. President Mourdock: Well, that's-- Sara Seib: Could. President Mourdock: Could, okay I'll go with could. The depth of those, what do you expect them to be? I mean, are we talking something that is going to be covered with cattails and lilly pads or...? Ron London: We want to get as much dirt out of them as possible so we're going to go down as far as we can so 15 feet deep. President Mourdock: Okay. Sara Seib: One other thing I have concern about is I don't see any or maybe there is in the program for your trash covers for these runoffs and for the wherever the water is going to run under the streets will there be a place, these grates, trash grates, over those? Bill Jeffers: Yes, ma'am. There will be East Jordan type iron casting on top of every drop inlet to protect children from falling in and protect trash from going down in the inlets if that is what you're referring to. Sara Seib: Yes. Bill Jeffers: Yes, ma'am. Sara Seib: Okay, thank you. Bill Jeffers: Could you repeat your Hosmer classifications for the secretary, please? Sara Seib: The Hosmer Silt Loam is HOB2 and HOB3. HOB2 is two to six percent eroded, B3 is two to six percent severe erosion. President Mourdock: Okay, thank you. Anyone else with questions or comments on Stonecreek? Commissioner Jerrel: With the understanding that this is a preliminary approval I'll move approval of Stonecreek Subdivision. President Mourdock: And I will second and so order. Again, we would appreciate it if Jagoe and Morley works with the Seibs and Mr. Schlensker and those he represents to get the information out there. Thank you. Again, just Mr. and Mrs. Seib, I think one of the important things and I don't want to gloss over it too quickly is Mr. London made the comment that you expect it will be 60 to 90 days before you come back here for final, is that right? Ron London: That's correct. President Mourdock: So you'll have
plenty of time to talk.
President Mourdock: Okay, the next one for preliminary is Waterford Park Lots 3 through 11. Bill Jeffers: This is a preliminary plan for the area shaded salmon color. President Mourdock: Is that the one in the center? Bill Jeffers: That's supposed to lull you into submission, that beautiful color there. President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: Anyway, the plan is very sufficient for a preliminary plan and I only had questions on one or two small details that he is going to have to add as part of the street plans so that John Stoll and I more fully understand just a couple of very small technical items. It's a commercial subdivision out there south of Vogel. You've got Kimber Lane coming up from, what is it, Columbia Street? It's back there behind Sonic. They just finished Los Bravos there, so you know where I'm talking about out in that area. It's a very nice plan. They're going to have a lake on this one so we won't have to go parking lot by parking lot with detention. We recommend approval of that. President Mourdock: Anyone here to address Waterford Plaza? Alright! Commissioner Jerrel: I'll move preliminary approval of Waterford Park 3 through 11. President Mourdock: Second and so
ordered.
President Mourdock: Copper Creek Apartments. Bill Jeffers: On Copper Creek Apartments, that's a preliminary drainage plan. I don't want to drag it out because it's a huge development...well, not huge, but it's a big as Mission Viejo or so and it's down there behind the Hahn development where the 17-plex theater is. It's over on the Boehne Camp side of the development. He's got three, I believe, one large lake and two small lakes, in there which will provide more than sufficient...right now he is showing us a 10/25 storage, a 25 year storm discharged as a ten, but he has already told us that he has sufficient cubic foot volume to achieve a 100 foot...or a 100 year storage discharged as a ten and then the developer himself, Mr. Neville, was telling me this morning at Site Review where this came before Site Review, that he would like to choke it down even farther and he is discussing this with Mr. Farney, who is the engineer, how to pick up some of these little ten year storms and prevent them from adversely affecting the downstream neighbors towards, I believe, Middle Mount Vernon Road. President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: So they're going to be working towards that in the final plan, but this requires your approval so that he can move forward with the Site Review Committee which doesn't take it to full Area Plan Commission and we do recommend approval of the current plan. President Mourdock: Anyone here to address Copper Creek Apartments? Commissioner Jerrel: I'd like to move approval of Copper Creek Apartments' preliminary plan. President Mourdock: Second and so
ordered.
President Mourdock: Other business tonight. Bill, we have to reschedule a special meeting regarding the Gamble petition, is that right? Bill Jeffers: We were thinking that was coming sooner than it is. We haven't seen any rainfall at all. President Mourdock: Tell us about it. Bill Jeffers: So we can't tell these people whether or not what they've done will work. Why don't we go ahead, what is it, October 11th. Commissioner Jerrel: The 11th. Bill Jeffers: Go ahead and leave it the way it is. If we don't have any rainfall we'll postpone it at that time since you're already going to now have a special meeting on the 11th for-- President Mourdock: We've already established the 11th, so there is no action required there? Bill Jeffers: Right. Charlene Timmons: I think we need permission to advertise. Bill Jeffers: Permission to advertise in case we need to extend it. Commissioner Jerrel: Okay, I'm going to move to advertise for...it's Gamble? Bill Jeffers: Yes, ma'am. Commissioner Jerrel: For the 11th of October. President Mourdock: Second and so ordered. Joe Harrison, Jr.: Bill, will you notify them again? Bill Jeffers: Okay, that we are going to have it on the 11th? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yes, and you can indicate if for some reason-- Bill Jeffers: If for some reason it doesn't rain between now and-- Joe Harrison, Jr.: We'll reschedule it on that date for another date. Bill Jeffers: For another date, okay.
President Mourdock: Okay, special bid...or special ditch projects that we need to bid. Bill Jeffers: This is a notice to bid to prospective bidders. I am asking permission to advertise in the paper. It needs your signatures. I have been unable...you guys asked me to get more than one price on the obstruction removal behind the Koch's house. I have been unable in this kind of boom construction period to find more than one or two people that want to go out there and look at it. They're so busy with landscaping and so forth I am hoping that now we're getting towards fall that I might be able to pick up somebody...someone's interest here and get them out there to look at it and I'm asking to be allowed to advertise. Commissioner Jerrel: So moved. President Mourdock: Second.
President Mourdock: Ditch at the Psychiatric Hospital. Commissioner Jerrel: This is well done. Bill, this is well done. Bill Jeffers: Thank you. One of the Board members asked me to look into this erosion problem at the Evansville Psychiatric Children's Center on 3300 E. Morgan Avenue. They have basically a natural slough or waterway running through their property. It is severely eroding and causing a potential hazard to some of their maintenance sheds and garages and so forth. The maintenance director has been calling around trying to find somebody that can help him. I have not been able to determine that the county has ever maintained, improved or otherwise set foot on this property. I have been able to determine from someone who researched the Wabash-Erie Canal that this was used to draw water into and out of the Wabash-Erie Canal in the early 1800's. However, since that time it has just been a natural waterway through which all of 12 miles of ditch drains into Pigeon Creek. Then they've added...the city added some where Lloyd Expressway floods in front of the stadium one of the solutions was to pipe that down and discharge it into this creek, too, so you've got that coming in. The bottom line is on the last page, and you can read it at your leisure, I would like the report to be entered into the record, the city remains capable of accessing funds for drainage improvements. Projects, such as all the projects that I have referenced in this brief report, that they've already done. Some of those funds are accessible to them through municipal bonds like the East Side Urban reconstruction that they did on all these ditches out there and then turned it over to us to maintain. They continue to do smaller projects in the area which makes it apparent that they have the funds to do it. Every year they're supposed to sit down there in the Board of Works and pinpoint drainage projects like the one there on Weinbach Avenue that they're doing now along Division Street, all of that. So there is obviously sufficient money to take care of some problem like this. I pointed out the Rudolph deal about four paragraphs from the bottom of the last page. You're probably familiar with that and I just wanted to point that out because when that came up it was the city who was able to access sufficient funds to make that repair and satisfy the Rudolph Company who was seeking damages at that time. We weren't able to do it for lack of funds. Commissioner Jerrel: I'm going to send a copy to Mr. Andis. Bill Jeffers: Who is a very nice fellow. He has been calling all around and I guess he is just not connecting with the right guy there at the Board of Works because I tried to send him that way as well. President Mourdock: We need a formal motion to put this in the record. Commissioner Jerrel: I'd move that Mr. Jeffers' Drainage Board report concerning Child Psychiatric Center be put into the official record. President Mourdock: Second and so
ordered.
President Mourdock: Various correspondence. Bill Jeffers: I have misplaced that and I'm going to get copies of that and bring it to you next month, but basically what it involves is Mr. Sterchi...I'll explain it next month. President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: It's real cool the way he did it, I just want to say that. The way he is doing it is really taking a load of what John Stoll and I are going to have to do and I wish other developers would notify property owners when they put fences in ditches and so forth. President Mourdock: Is it still in reference to Woodgate? Bill Jeffers: No, this is in reference to Clear Creek which is his development there. President Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: I'll bring it to you
next month.
President Mourdock: And you have various claims? Is there a motion on the claims? Commissioner Jerrel: I'll move approval of those claims. Bill Jeffers: They're all for year 1999 maintenance work in progress that has been completed at this time. President Mourdock: I will second and so order. Any old business before us this evening? Any new business? Motion for adjournment? Commissioner Jerrel: I hope you all...so moved...I mean, second. I'm rattled like them. President Mourdock: You make the motion. Commissioner Jerrel: I move that we adjourn. President Mourdock: Second and so ordered, okay. The meeting was adjourned at 7:55
p.m.
Those in attendance:
Vanderburgh County
Richard E. Mourdock, President Bettye Lou Jerrel, Vice President |
