VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

SEPTEMBER 15, 2009

The Vanderburgh County Drainage Board met in session this 15^th day of September, 2009 at 5:55 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with Commissioner Troy Tornatta presiding.

Commissioner Tornatta: Mr. Jeffers.

Bill Jeffers: Good afternoon, President Tornatta.

Commissioner Tornatta: I’m Vice President, thank you.

Bill Jeffers: Vice President Tornatta, Commissioner Melcher. Ted, you’re looking good.

Kathryn Schymik: Thank you.

Commissioner Tornatta: Vacations, anyway. Do you have an agenda, sir?

Commissioner Melcher: Yeah, right here.

Commissioner Tornatta: I got it, I got it. Okay.

Commissioner Tornatta: How about a motion to approve the previous meeting’s minutes.

Commissioner Melcher: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second. A motion and a second. Discussion? Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Tornatta?

Commissioner Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 2-0)

Commissioner Tornatta: A motion to–

Commissioner Melcher: Okay, I’ll make a motion to open bids for Kolb Ditch and Audubon Lake release.

Commissioner Tornatta: Alright, and I’ll second that. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Commissioner Melcher: Aye.

(Motion approved 2-0)

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: Our first drainage plan tonight is Creekside Meadows Section Two. It’s a revised, final drainage plan. This, on your screen shows the overall Creekside Meadow development, all the lots. It’s out on Petersburg Road, north of Earle, Indiana. The middle portion is what they’re redesigning, reconfiguring the lots to make them more marketable in today’s market. It still contains the lake, it still contains all the drainage facilities that were approved under the final drainage plan. They just had to modify some easements and some pipe locations to make the reconfigured lots. The County Surveyor’s recommendation is to approve the new design as a revised final drainage plan. Glen Merritt from Cash Waggner is here in the audience should you have any questions.

Commissioner Tornatta: Any questions?

Commissioner Melcher: No questions. So, you want a, I’ll make a motion to approve that one, Creekside Meadows.

Commissioner Tornatta: On the recommendation of the Surveyor, and I’ll second that. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Commissioner Melcher: Aye.

(Motion approved 2-0)

Bill Jeffers: Our second drainage plan is Outdoor Power Development. It’s a final drainage plan. It’s very simple. The property owner wants to take this piece of empty property out in Armstrong, Indiana, on Big Cynthiana Road, and, then we’ll see the drainage plan come up on your screen. That’s turned 90 degrees to the right, but here’s Big Cynthiana Road, which is headed north, and they’re putting a shop out there for outdoor power equipment, lawn maintenance, that type of thing, for sale and a display area, parking lot. A large drainage basin over here on the north end of the property will drain into the highway right away. It comports with the drainage code. The County Surveyor’s recommendation is to approve this plan as well.

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll move for approval.

Commissioner Tornatta: And, I’ll move for a second on the recommendation of the Surveyor. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Commissioner Melcher: Aye.

(Motion approved 2-0)

Commissioner Tornatta: Our next plan is St. John’s Catholic Church. It’s out here on the relocated Boonville-New Harmony Road...I’m trying to think of what they call that now, it’s called Daylight Drive now, out off of Green River Road, between Green River and I-164. Basically, what St. John’s parish is doing is adding a parking lot. You see on this overhead picture, you see their church with the existing parking lot, and they’re adding a drive coming in off of Daylight Drive, and they’re adding an expanded parking lot down in this area along the south side of their property. Because the drainage basin has to be squeezed into the corner you’ll see....let’s see the drainage plan first, okay. The drainage basin is being squeezed down here into the corner, that’s the last available location for it. It will provide detention in accordance with our code, but it gets kind of close to the property line and doesn’t allow for a full ten foot wide maintenance path, and, therefore I have asked that the parish priest submit this letter that you see in front of you, it’s a notarized letter, whereby the church board is acknowledging that they’re squeezing that in there and they are confident that they will be able maintain the basin from within their own property. It will be mowed on a regular basis. It’s a dry basin, it’s not a wet basin, so, I’m sure they will be able to do that, and that they’re asking you to waive some of the more minor requirements of the code, and I’m recommending that you do so, because they hold Vanderburgh County, its agencies and agents, harmless from any claims or damages or actions related to the approval of this plan with those code requirements for the ten foot maintenance path waived. With having said that, and with this notarized letter that will go into the permanent file, the County Surveyor recommends approval.

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll move–

Bill Jeffers: And Bethany Hoff and Jim Morley are here if you need any further explanation.

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll move approval.

Commissioner Tornatta: On the recommendation of the Surveyor, I will do the same. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Commissioner Melcher: Aye.

(Motion approved 2-0)

Bill Jeffers: Our last drainage plan tonight is Villas at Cambridge PUD, which stands for planned unit development, for those who are unfamiliar with the term. A planned unit development is allowed by Area Plan, or by planning code, zoning code for mixed use and other uses that require a relaxation of setbacks and, you know, minimum square footage and various other things. So, we have that in our code available. This used to be a condominium, which in the State of Indiana basically is looked at no differently than a single lot apartment project. It used to be that it was a single lot, with all of these individual building sites within the single lot, such as other condominiums would have. As you can see there are one, two, three, four, five, six homes built, and then now we’ll look at the new plan, under a PUD they will have however many lots there are there. I’ve lost count, but it looks like around 30? Is that correct?

Unidentified: 37.

Bill Jeffers: 37 lots. This basically makes it more marketable, because people want to own their individual lots. The developer prefers it that way, but because some of the lots require a relaxation of setback, and some of the lots may not be the full 6,000 square feet, etcetera, it falls under PUD. So, that’s the explanation for that. Here’s the restrictions that will appear on the plat, according to the drainage code explaining that the condominium, or, excuse me, the individual lot owners association, rather than the condominium lot owners association, the individual lot owners will be totally responsible for everything in that drainage plan. I had a little problem with the wording of this, because in our code the wording always refers back to a plan that was reviewed and approved under this process, and there is existing out there a pipe run, if we go back to the site plan, along the south line of this property there’s already a pipe that has been installed without an official plan having been approved, it was installed while it was a condominium project, by the condominium developer or owner. If we go back to the first overhead picture, our plan that we approved called for an open swale along that line that would pick up...all this is uphill, anyone who’s played golf or visited out there, this is all uphill. This is the area up near the clubhouse. It all drains down the hill and into this farm field. You can see the farm field has grassy waterways in it that carries that water off down to Pond Flat. We had an agreement with the adjacent farmers that all the water from this development would be picked up along this south line and carried over to the golf course lake, which it is. That was to be done in an open swale, which that used to happen. Then some of the property owners wished for that to be piped, and they did so. I don’t have any problem with that having happened, except that we didn’t have the opportunity to review the plan, and we didn’t have any opportunity to observe and inspect the installation of the pipe. So, I’m simply, at this time, saying that my review does not include that pipe, and the plan does include an alternate swale north of that pipe that will, in this easement, pick up all that drainage and take it to the lake, but the pipe remains because there’s some connections from the road system, and there’s some connections possibly from individual lots either now or in the future that may be made. I’m simply saying I didn’t review those, and I’m not recommending that as part of the plan, and I’m asking you to approve the plan with the full understanding by everyone, the developer and all the future landowners, etcetera, that our review did not include the pipe, that I specified there, and that your approval does not include the pipe, because we had no opportunity to–

Commissioner Melcher: And, Bill, that swale, they’re going to put in north of the pipe, right?

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir.

Commissioner Melcher: Is that going to go into the lake also?

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir.

Commissioner Melcher: So, it will be kind of like a double system?

Bill Jeffers: Pretty much. The pipe does pick up some flow from the street. It does serve a purpose. I’m not in any way trying to indicate that the pipe is insufficient. I’m only saying that we didn’t have the opportunity to go through the process.

Commissioner Melcher: But, you’re saying that the swale you’re approving?

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir.

Commissioner Melcher: Okay, with that I’ll make the motion–

Bill Jeffers: Oh, I’m sorry, you can go ahead and make your motion. I have one more comment.

Commissioner Melcher: Okay, I’ll make the motion to approve the Villas at Cambridge.

Commissioner Tornatta: I’ll second it.

Bill Jeffers: The developer and Danny Leek the engineer from Morley is here to answer any questions if you have any questions about my explanation.

Commissioner Tornatta: Any questions?

Commissioner Melcher: No.

Commissioner Tornatta: All in favor say aye.

Commissioner Melcher: Aye.

Commissioner Tornatta: Aye.

(Motion approved 2-0)

Bill Jeffers: Okay, we can either open the, I mean, we can either read the bids into the record, or we can approve the claims, either way you want to do it.

Commissioner Tornatta: Let’s get a motion to approve claims.

Commissioner Melcher: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second. All in favor say aye.

Commissioner Melcher: Aye.

Commissioner Tornatta: Aye.

(Motion approved 2-0)

Commissioner Tornatta: Just read the bidders?

Bill Jeffers: Read the, we got two bids?

Kathryn Schymik: We have two bids, uh-huh.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, just read those into the minutes, and then we’ll take them under advisement until next week, and come back with a recommendation.

Commissioner Tornatta: Sounds good.

Kathryn Schymik: The first bid was submitted by Mark Naas in the amount of $33,900, and the other bid was submitted by Vieira Brothers, Inc. with a base bid of $17,860 with an additional cost of $35 per ton for rip rap.

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll move to put this under advisement.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second. All in favor say aye.

Commissioner Melcher: Aye.

Commissioner Tornatta: Aye.

(Motion approved 2-0)

Commissioner Tornatta: Alright.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, then we have, I believe, one person wishing to make a public comment regarding Bergdolt Road.

Commissioner Tornatta: If, and, Bill, if you don’t mind me kind of jumping in here real quick. I know that we did have a plan that was going to wrap up, if I’m not mistaken September 4^th, but we’re not going to leave any stone unturned, no pun intended, at that area. So, Bergdolt Road has been a problem for a while. We know it’s been back, as we can remember back into the 70's they’ve had a problem with water run off and drainage and what not. We’re trying to correct this, but in doing that we see that there is a little spot that needs to be addressed. To my knowledge, I think that that’s, that we’re looking into how that’s going to be addressed and working a process, but in the same light we’ve got a lot of water that’s moving now, where it hasn’t in the past. So, be that as it may, proceed.

Bill Jeffers: Right, that, I think that generally nails it pretty close. It’s been this way for many, many years. The homes and the land on the north side of Bergdolt are significantly higher than the homes and the land on the south side. There’s no well defined ditch or collection system on the north side, so the water simply runs across the road to the south side. Mr. and Mrs. Mefford–

Commissioner Tornatta: After these pictures are–

Bill Jeffers: –here, they’re out here and they’ve submitted these pictures of some rainfall that occurred recently, and there’s a letter associated with it that gives you the date and time that it occurred, the number of hours during which it occurred, etcetera, and I’ll just leave the microphone and let what is going to be said be said.

Judy Mefford: I’m Judith Mefford. I live 2909 Bergdolt Road. I know that there’s some...and they did some work, but we had (Inaudible). What you’ve got up there right now is fine.

Brenda Jeffers: Well, that’s number two.

Judy Mefford: Okay, if I can figure out how to do this thing. A week ago last Saturday, it was the 5^th?

Commissioner Melcher: It was Labor Day weekend.

Judy Mefford: Yeah, oh yes it was Labor Day weekend. Anyway, we had 2.4 inches of rain out there, and they had, this side of our yard, which is where we had had so much water before, oh, it was great. We had a little water come over, that came over the road, not much, most of Ridge, not Ridgewood, but Tanglewood, most of Tanglewood water went over into the big ditch that’s over there, that side did great, except this time we had water that came, our line is about like right there, and water came over the road, pooled in his, in what was Mr. Wilson’s house. Mr. Wilson passed away. So, and then run on over into our yard, down our thing, and (Inaudible). Yeah, this here, it came on down...now, this is our, this is the drive right in front of the carport, and, of course, we have that grate there, it came down and come all...this is like almost into our carport. This was only 2.4 inches of rain. We had what almost four inches the other time? We would have probably had a carport full of water if it had done this the other time. Then it ran, put this one up, it ran down our sidewalk and was running down in front of our bushes and stuff there. So, our water has just kind of moved is what’s happened. This is, this here is down between the houses, this is looking from the back to the front. This is from the front to the back.

Commissioner Tornatta: That’s probably where it should be, correct? I mean, that’s supposed to be there, the channel.

Judy Mefford: It’s yard.

Commissioner Tornatta: Between the houses, I’m sure there’s supposed to be some–

Judy Mefford: Well, it’s yard.

Commissioner Tornatta: –Bill would have to kind of–

Judy Mefford: We have put at the grate we put a, the grate at the front of the carport we had put it in, and there is that we do get some, but nothing like this. I mean, this probably was at least ankle deep, and it went on back to–

Brenda Jeffers: (Inaudible).

Judy Mefford: –yeah, it went on back through back there on this side of the building and pooled in here. You can see some of it up into our yard. Now this is the other side of our yard. No, that, okay, that’s the people behind us.

Commissioner Tornatta: John?

Bill Jeffers: Do you want to do a time out for the news hour, then finish up?

Commissioner Tornatta: Well, I mean, I don’t know if we necessarily need to do that. I just–

Judy Mefford: But it went back in the back–

Commissioner Tornatta: John, come up here. Just come up here.

Judy Mefford: It went back up in the back and spilled over into their yard, and we had water all the way across the back of our yard.

Commissioner Tornatta: Alright, Bill, why don’t you take a seat up here and we’ll just see what we’ve got. I apologize for not coming out here. I’ve been out there at the last rain event, was not able to come out at this one, because I had other duties to take care of, but were you out there? Did you see what happened? I mean–

Judy Mefford: I don’t think anybody was out at this rain event.

Commissioner Melcher: I was in Tennessee.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

Judy Mefford: During the 4^th of July weekend?

Commissioner Melcher: Labor Day.

Judy Mefford: Labor Day weekend rather.

Commissioner Tornatta: Yeah, I was out there, I think it was 4^th of July, wasn’t it?

Judy Mefford: Yeah, it may have been 4^th of July, but this was–

Commissioner Tornatta: I was out there then, but I–

Judy Mefford: This is Labor Day that I’m talking about, okay?

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

John Stoll: I was out there, it was the Sunday morning of Labor Day weekend, but the one picture that showed the water sheeting across the road was much more extensive than what I saw. I’m not sure which picture number it was.

Brenda Jeffers: Is that it?

John Stoll: There was another shot that showed it, a shot of Bergdolt Road where you could see the different areas where it was crossing.

Commissioner Tornatta: Number six.

John Stoll: That’s wider and more ponding in the street than what I saw when I was out there. So, I don’t know if I was in there, out there between storms or what, but that is more than what I had seen. When I was heading out there Green River Road between Lloyd and Morgan was extremely flooded, and I was surprised to see how little water was out at Bergdolt. But that is more than what I saw.

Commissioner Tornatta: Now, let me ask a question of Bill, if, excuse me, if Bergdolt Road was impacted by another road down line would that not back up Bergdolt? Let me rephrase that. Is there another road that would impact Bergdolt if the rain was heavier in a section of our county?

Bill Jeffers: I think what impacts Bergdolt is all uphill to the north of Bergdolt. I don’t think there’s any road down to the south that if it were flooded would back up this far, because this is significantly higher than the subdivision below it. So, I believe all of this water is coming from uphill, and the system is just not big enough to handle a two and a half inch rainfall without water sheeting over the top of the road.

Commissioner Tornatta: Now, there has been–

Bill Jeffers: Now, our, I guess what our philosophy or our guiding principles are is we don’t want to see any dwelling, the living area of any dwelling flooded during the 100 year storm. Up to a 100 year storm. Anything below that, well, even up to the 100 year storm, should not flood a home. I don’t believe your home has ever been flooded, your living area. Is that correct?

Judy Mefford: Well, ever?

Bill Jeffers: You’ve never had water in your living room?

Judy Mefford: No, but we have had water in our crawl space.

Bill Jeffers: Okay.

Judy Mefford: We have frequently had water in our crawl space.

Bill Jeffers: Then a crawl space...right, so a crawl space should be protected by foundation drains in such a way that if a crawl space becomes flooded, the sump pump, or the other facilities under the house would remove that water in a very quick and timely fashion. Homes that were built before 1979 are not, do not generally have flood protection the same as they do after 1979. So, this home may not be adequately protected against foundation flooding, but I believe it is protected against flooding of the living area. A carport, as I indicated in one of my e-mails to you today, a carport basically is just a section of the driveway that happens to have a canopy over top of it to keep rain and snow off your automobiles.

Judy Mefford: Well, our carport is raised four inches, we put four inches of concrete on that carport to raise it a while back.

Bill Jeffers: But, the design, what I’m saying, basically as a design, a carport of this age, even with four inches of additional concrete put into it would probably still be at an elevation that might become flooded during unusually heavy rainfall events. Of course, your car has tires which raises it up off the pavement, so, I don’t think any automobile has ever been, the interior of the automobile has ever been flooded. I do know that this is an inconvenience for anyone such as the Mefford’s that have to deal with it, but the fact of the matter remains that at the time these homes were built there was not adequate protected grating required by code, and there may have to be some retrofitting of, engineered, you know, retrofitting engineering to be done around the home. The water, as Mr. Tornatta indicated, water running down the property lines on each side of the home is exactly what we would expect to happen, even today–

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Bill Jeffers: –in new homes. We’re trying to move that water that can’t go through the pipes, and that would be, along the property lines that would be a totally appropriate way to move water across the surface. What I’m afraid of is that if we take all of this water and take it down to that existing storm water pipe–

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Bill Jeffers: –the concrete pipe, that’s in extremely poor condition. It’s collapsed in many places. The Mefford’s know this, they’ve seen it bubbling up out of the ground in the neighbors yards, if we were to move all of this water down to that disintegrated pipe, it would just put additional pressure on that pipe and cause future damage. I believe John Stoll and Chris Walsh have looked at some modifications to that pipe system that could possibly be made inexpensively that might help, but it’s my estimation that if we went in and repaired that pipe system it would be at least a quarter million dollars to replace it. It’s in horrible condition. I mean, it’s 40 or 50 years old?

Judy Mefford: I don’t know.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Bill Jeffers: It was built when those homes were built.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right, and I think Chris has, Chris and John have been talking about a plan for some additional silt lifting out of the ditch, and then also with the approval of Vectren, about a foot and a half deeper ditch on their property.

John Stoll: The ditch that runs north south across the Vectren property at the outlet end of the pipe that drains this whole area is about, has about, has accumulated about a foot and a half of silt. That gradually tapers off until it gets down to the existing grade down at the Sonntag Stevens legal drain. So, we would need to have Chris’ crews remove a foot and a half tapering down to nothing over the course of about 150 feet. The problem with that ditch is, even when Chris’ crews are finished, the elevation of the bottom of the pipe where it outlets at that ditch is the same as the elevation where the ditch hits Sonntag Stevens. So, it’s dead flat for all practical purposes. So, it will take more water by getting the obstructions out of the way, but you’re not going to be able to force additional flow because there’s no grade on it.

Judy Mefford: The other thing I’ll tell you is that Tanglewood, we were out during this storm taking these pictures, and Tanglewood which is–

Bill Jeffers: Picture number two.

Judy Mefford: Tanglewood on the northwest corner had lots of water there. When I left to go to church the next morning at 7:45 it was completely all the way across the road at Bergdolt, You know where Tangle....not Tanglewood, I’m sorry, at Leah Drive when it comes out to Bergdolt. It was completely across the road. I wouldn’t have wanted to go through it with my car.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, Chris do you have something?

Chris Walsh: I had talked to John earlier this afternoon, and they’re still, digging the easement out is going to help. It’s putting some back pressure on that whole system. I think that’s going to help a little bit. But, we still have to get out and cut the shoulders all the way down the north side of Bergdolt, which is holding a lot of water. That should let that water go back into the north side and not let it cross over as much onto her.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

Chris Walsh: But, I’m in the part of the season where it’s crunch time on my paving–

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Chris Walsh: –and it’s a pretty large crew to send out. So, I’m still a few weeks away from being able to–

Commissioner Tornatta: What I guess we’re saying is we’re not done with you.

Judy Mefford: Okay.

Commissioner Tornatta: And, we’re going to try and make it as good of a situation as we can. I just don’t know when exactly that time that they’re going to be able to get out there and make some of those other repairs.

Judy Mefford: Well, I came back–

Commissioner Tornatta: But, we’re not stopping at September 4^th. We want to make it as right as we can until we’re dealing with the system as a whole.

Judy Mefford: Okay. Well, I came back because it was such a difference in where the water was.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right, and I kind of told you–

Judy Mefford: So–

Commissioner Tornatta: –that we might have that. Anytime we displace some of that water, I think we cleared, definitely cleared some arteries for that water to go down. We’re still displacing a lot of water. I’m afraid at some point somebody’s going to see more water on their property. So, we’re going to try and do what we can to get that, get rid of as much water as possible, or get it into areas where it can be controlled, and hopefully it’s going to take care of your problem.

Judy Mefford: Alright, right behind 2901, are you going to try to do something? In your report, which I have here, yeah, you were recommending rebuilding the flat grade behind 2901.

Chris Walsh: Yeah, that’s off right-of-way, but I do recommend that that flat grade have some work done to it. It’s in pretty bad shape. That would help some of the water in the back of the property. It’s supposed to drain the back of those properties.

Commissioner Tornatta: Off right-of-way?

Chris Walsh: But, that’s off right-of-way for us.

Judy Mefford: If it’s on her property, I think you’re going to get permission to do it, because she has told me that you can do anything you want.

Commissioner Tornatta: No.

Bill Jeffers: With our money.

Commissioner Tornatta: Yeah.

Judy Mefford: Huh?

Bill Jeffers: With our money.

Commissioner Tornatta: Yeah.

Judy Mefford: Well, yeah, I mean.

Commissioner Tornatta: Yeah, and some of that’s going to be a, if it’s on private property, they’re going to have to hire that done.

Chris Walsh: Like Bill had pointed out that pipe’s in such bad shape, maybe it’s a candidate to be sliplined. It’s bellied out. It’s been taken apart. It had water lines through it. We opened up a few obstructions in it that were slowing down the flow of the water, but overall the pipe’s condition is not good.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right. Okay, we’re a work in progress. We appreciate you coming out.

Judy Mefford: Okay.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay? Thank you. Alright, any other public comment? If not, motion to adjourn.

Commissioner Melcher: So moved.

(The meeting was adjourned at 6:29 p.m.)

Those in Attendance:

Troy Tornatta                            Stephen Melcher                      Bill Jeffers

Kathryn Schymik                      Madelyn Grayson                     Brenda Jeffers

Judy Mefford                             John Stoll                                  Chris Walsh

Others Unidentified                   Members of Media

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

Troy Tornatta, Vice President

Stephen Melcher, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)