VANDERBURGH COUNTY
DRAINAGE BOARD
OCTOBER 21, 2008
The Vanderburgh County Drainage Board met in session this 21st day of October, 2008 at 6:50 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with President Troy Tornatta presiding.
Call to Order |
President Tornatta: I would like to call to welcome everybody to the Tuesday, October 21, 2008 Drainage Board meeting. It is 6:50 p.m.
Approval of the October 7, 2008 Drainage Board Meeting Minutes |
President Tornatta: I would like to get approval of the minutes, please.
Commissioner Korb: So moved.
Commissioner Nix: Second.
President Tornatta: So ordered.
Vectren’s Scott Township Substation: Final Plan |
President Tornatta: Mr. Jeffers, I believe we have drainage plans for Vectren’s Scott Township substation, which is their final plan. Am I in line?
Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir.
President Tornatta: That was a yes, sir.
Bill Jeffers: That’s correct, President Tornatta. We, on the screen, have an outline of an 80 acre tract owned, previously owned by the Farney’s at Baseline Road and Princeton Road. It’s just northwest of Azteca Milling Company. The Farney’s sold the north half of that 80 acre tract, that’s hatched in yellow, that’s a 40 acre tract that they sold Vectren for a new substation. It’s a considerable project associated with the new high line that they’re running across the county, from Warrick County to Posey County, along Baseline Road. They did submit, by way of Morley and Associates, a substantial plan, along with other documentation showing the containment of the 100 year storm and the release at the required ten year rate, into a....let me see if I have my pointer. It will all be released at this point right here, into this agricultural waterway on the Farney’s property, that runs east about, oh, 800 feet, and then north to Pond Flat ditch. That waterway, I understand is going to be piped with a 24 inch tile by the Farney’s, who will continue to use it as an agricultural field. As I said, the accompanying documentation to this plan shows that everything is in accordance with the code for an impacted drainage area. The County Surveyor recommends approval of the final plan for Vectren’s Scott Township substation.
President Tornatta: Do I have any questions?
Commissioner Nix: Move approval.
Commissioner Korb: Second.
President Tornatta: So ordered.
Bill Jeffers: I’m sorry, did anyone need an agenda?
President Tornatta: I think we have them.
Bill Jeffers: You have them? Okay.
Report: Linda Phillips October 15th Deadline for Completion: Big Hill Drive Drainage Obstruction Project (Clear Creek Subdivision) |
Bill Jeffers: The next item on that agenda is my report regarding Linda Phillips October 15th deadline for the completion of the removal of the obstruction, as ordered by your Board. On July 15, 2008, you ordered Ms. Phillips, of 9223 Big Hill Drive, Evansville, Indiana, to restore or repair the waterway along her east property line. This is on the report that I put in front of you that’s highlighted, there’s certain segments highlighted in yellow. I then, in the second paragraph, go on to say some specifics of the restoration of that waterway with regard to cross section and erosion control fabrics, etcetera that should be used. The work was to be completed, according to your order, by October 15, 2008. As of this morning, at 8:00 a.m. local time, it had not been done. Your Drainage Board, I believe, ordered, entered the order in conformance with 36-9-27.4. A respondent against whom an order has been entered under that statute is subject to an action under section 22 of that statute, if the respondent fails to pay the amount for which the respondent is responsible under the order. You didn’t give an amount, you just simply said complete the work. In this case Ms. Phillips is the respondent, whom the Board ordered to complete the work, and she has not done so. You may alternately direct the County Surveyor to complete the work, under section 16 (A) (2) of this statute, at the expense of the respondent. You have the option of causing payment for the work, in accordance with section 22, which I give you a copy of farther along on the same page, by first paying for the improvement, if you were to order me to do it, out of the General Drain Improvement Fund, as we have done before, and then asking Ms. Phillips to pay that amount. If Ms. Phillips fails to pay that amount, whatever it may be, you may bring an order in any court having jurisdiction in the same manner as a creditor may recover an amount owed under contract. So, you can ask your attorney, but I think that’s probably Circuit or Superior Court.
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Right.
Bill Jeffers: So, at this time, you have a choice of authorizing an advance on the General Drainage Improvement Fund, I’m operating off page two of that little report. You should order, if you should order, excuse me, if you should authorize an advance on the General Drain Improvement Fund, I could go out and have that done by a contractor. Skipping down, you may want to take some additional precautions before issuing such an order, and I give you, on the bottom of that page, the language regarding judicial review that’s available to the respondent, so, you may want to ask for your lawyer’s advice over how to proceed at this point. I feel you’ve done everything in accordance with the statute. I feel I’ve done everything in accordance with the statute, but you may want to take precautionary steps when moving forward. I noticed Ms.--
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Can we talk to her and find out why this isn’t done?
Commissioner Nix: I think that’s an excellent idea.
Bill Jeffers: Pardon me?
Commissioner Nix: Could we talk to Ms. Phillips?
President Tornatta: Yeah. Ms. Phillips?
Linda Phillips: I’m Linda Phillips of 9223 Big Hill Drive here in Evansville.
President Tornatta: Okay, I guess, the one question is why haven’t we completed the proposed changes that we assigned you?
Linda Phillips: Okay, I contacted the man that I initially had hired to do the work, the one that left me high and dry when Mr. Jeffers came out to my home and left a note on his machine telling him to stop the work. I asked him if he would come back out and finish the work, and he told me, yes, that he would. So, he came back out and left his backhoe, told me that he would be back, he was in the middle of another job, and he would be back to finish it. In that time frame I received a phone call from Mr. Jeffers asking me who was going to do the work, and asked me if he could have that contractor’s name and phone number. I told him, yes, I’ve tried to work with him as best I can. The next thing I know my contractor’s gone again. So, Mr. Jeffers, in conversation said that he talked to this gentleman and this gentleman said that he was told that we didn’t want the work done. Nobody I know talked to the man and told him that. I’ve tried countless times to get a hold of the man that I hired, the surveyor that I hired to mark the property and write up the proposal that I gave you on what needed to be done, because when he talked to me on the phone he gave me one story, which was on a Friday, and on a Tuesday when I came in here I was handed a letter that day, I didn’t read it, because I assumed it said what the man told me on the phone. It wasn’t. It’s what Mr. Jeffers wants done. So, I’ve tried to get a hold of this gentleman, this surveyor, he will not call me back. He will not get on the phone and talk to me. The only thing they will say to me is, lady, you’ve got problems, which tells me, after he’s talked to Mr. Jeffers, something’s changed. After I talked to my contractor, something changes. I can’t get anybody to work for me, because when they talk to Mr. Jeffers, everything goes, Mr. Jeffers told me he wants to come out and do it himself. He said, why don’t you just let us come out and do it? I don’t want them to do it, but I can’t seem to find anybody that can work with him. I don’t know what to do.
Commissioner Nix: Mrs. Phillips, I was just curious, has this taken place, what you’re saying–
Linda Phillips: Has what taken place?
Commissioner Nix: No, no, no, no, has this taken place since our last meeting?
Linda Phillips: Yes. I’ve had surgery since I’ve been here–
Commissioner Nix: Okay.
Linda Phillips: I cannot work. It’s all I can do to deal with you guys. I’m telling you,
you guys have really pushed this....where did he go? He should be here to listen,
if he’s on the board. If he’s making decisions concerning me, why would he get up
and leave?
President Tornatta: Well, he, at this point, is not making that decision.
Linda Phillips: I’ve contacted another gentleman to come and do the work for me. He has came, he has looked at it, he has assessed it. He wants to go talk to Mr. Esche to see if Mr. Esche will talk to him, explain to him what he wants done. Mr. Esche doesn’t even care enough to come here and discuss this. It seems like all he wants to do is cause me pain and torment. I was the one, all I wanted to do was make the ditch attractive. It looks like trash out there. They’re nice homes, in my opinion. We’re the only one with that mess in that subdivision, and all I want to do is clean it up. But, all I’m doing is running into problems, and I can’t figure out why. I can’t get any work done if I keep getting the Surveyor to stop everybody I hire.
President Tornatta: Okay. Ted, if we were to have this work done and assess this on a property tax bill, could that be done over a period of years?
Linda Phillips: Mr. Nix, you, Mr. Jeffers told me that you said it wouldn’t take two hours work. How much could it cost?
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: It’s not like a Barrett Law.
Commissioner Nix: I don’t know that it should take two hours. It’s not a lengthy thing to do. It won’t take long to do. It just needs to be fixed. I mean, that’s all we asked you to do.
Linda Phillips: Well, you know what, that’s fine, but everybody I hire that comes out there tells me they cannot understand why I have to fix his property. Why I’m responsible for anything–
Commissioner Nix: Ma’am--
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: No, that is the problem–
Linda Phillips: It is.
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: –I think, though that you’re experiencing. We’re long past whether you’re fixing his property or your property.
Linda Phillips: Why are we past it?
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Because–
Linda Phillips: Because why?
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I’m going to tell you.
Linda Phillips: I’m listening.
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Because the representative of the Board, the County Surveyor, has done a survey and has determined that this needs to repaired. The Board listened to the evidence, they listened to what you had to say, they listened to what he had to say. You may not like it, but they determined that you’ve caused the obstruction and you need to repair it.
Linda Phillips: There is no obstruction.
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Excuse me, excuse me.
Linda Phillips: There is no obstruction.
President Tornatta: Linda.
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I’m not trying to argue with you–
Linda Phillips: You are.
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: No, I’m not. I’m telling you what the law is, and that’s what you really need to get an understanding of. The law is that the Drainage Board has entered an order that you repair this. You may not like that, but that is the order–
Linda Phillips: So, just because you–
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Excuse me.
President Tornatta: Hold on.
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: You either get a contractor to fix it–
Linda Phillips: Sure.
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Excuse me. No, you haven’t, because there are people who will do it. You either get that done, or we will take one of the two routes here, and have it done ourselves, and then you will pay it that way. If we have to sue you in court, you’ll not only pay what the final judgement is for the cost of the repairs, but you’ll pay my attorney’s fees. You don’t want to do that, and I don’t want you to do that.
Linda Phillips: No, I don’t want to, because, you know what, you have done nothing to help me. I called you and talked to you on the phone, and you told me that you would make sure that the surveyor–
President Tornatta: Hold on.
Linda Phillips: –that I hired, the surveyor I hired would be here that night.
President Tornatta: Okay.
Linda Phillips: And he’s not.
President Tornatta: It is, it is–
Linda Phillips: Explain to me why–
President Tornatta: It is my meeting.
Linda Phillips: –no, why can’t I ever finish a sentence?
President Tornatta: Because we’ve went down this road.
Linda Phillips: It’s not your meeting, it’s my meeting.
President Tornatta: It’s my meeting.
Linda Phillips: I’m the one that’s going to be out the money.
President Tornatta: I control this meeting.
Linda Phillips: I can talk just as long as you can without–
President Tornatta: And we’ll adjourn this meeting, and we’ll make–
Linda Phillips: Yeah, you’re the one that’s going to church with the guy that I’m trying to deal with. You tell me where that’s right.
President Tornatta: I don’t–
Linda Phillips: Oh, you don’t, you tell me you don’t know Paul Esche outside of this business?
President Tornatta: I do not.
Linda Phillips: I know where he goes (Inaudible)--
President Tornatta: But, I do know a lot of people outside this business–
Linda Phillips: Sure you do.
President Tornatta: –so, I mean, that’s–
Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Ms. Phillips, if you’ll just let me say–
Linda Phillips: That’s a conflict of interest.
President Tornatta: Okay, anyway, with this Board in mind, we gave a date of October 21st, at this point is it the Board’s wishes to carry on with fixing the problem? I think we have given enough time, in my opinion–
Linda Phillips: I have been in the hospital–
President Tornatta: –for this plan.
Linda Phillips: –I have had surgery–
President Tornatta: Ma’am, I would please appreciate–
Linda Phillips: –I explained to you that I could not do it.
President Tornatta: Please–
Linda Phillips: I gave that the very first day. You always want to quiet me–
President Tornatta: You have to–
Linda Phillips: –why can’t I ever finish?
President Tornatta: Because you have talked enough.
Linda Phillips: I haven’t, you won’t let me finish.
President Tornatta: I need you to please be quiet.
Linda Phillips: You think because you’re sitting on that side of the podium that I have no right to say anything. I should have a right to finish just like you do. This is not your money you’re spending. I told you, I hired a man, he talks to him, and the next thing I know the man’s gone.
President Tornatta: Ms. Phillips–
Linda Phillips: Explain to me why I–
President Tornatta: Ms. Phillips–
Linda Phillips: –can’t fight city hall?
President Tornatta: Ms. Phillips, we are done talking to you. Thank you very much.
Linda Phillips: Yeah, you’re done–
President Tornatta: Thank you very much.
Linda Phillips: –because you want to be done.
President Tornatta: No.
Linda Phillips: Oh, yes, it is.
President Tornatta: We’re done, because you have taken up a lot of this–
Linda Phillips: I haven’t, that other man stood up here and talked for how long–
President Tornatta: –Board’s time.
Linda Phillips: –over something that has nothing to do with Drainage–
President Tornatta: Thank you. Mr. Nix?
Linda Phillips: –and you never said a word to him. Explain to me–
President Tornatta: Ms. Phillips, my next call will be to security.
Linda Phillips: I don’t care.
President Tornatta: I would assess that you need to take a seat.
Linda Phillips: I’m not doing anything. He talked about freedom of speech, and I have freedom of speech. You tell me why I don’t have the right to stand up here and talk?
President Tornatta: I’m going to ask this Board to make a decision at this time.
Linda Phillips: I’m going to tell you something, you talk about, Mr. Jeffers talks about the flat piece of ground that I built my home on, this, you tell me that’s a flat piece of ground. The builder built it up. It wasn’t me, the builder did it. I stood out there and took these pictures today from my garage. You tell me that is a flat piece of ground. The builder built it up. All I want to do is just fix it, make it look attractive. I’m the one that initiated fixing it.
Commissioner Nix: We’ve asked, we’ve been very, very patient with this.
Linda Phillips: I have been in the hospital.
Commissioner Nix: Ma’am, please step back.
Linda Phillips: I am sick.
Commissioner Nix: Step back to the podium, please.
Linda Phillips: I explained to you, initially, I was going to be in the hospital, I was going to be sick for an extended time. I’m not working now. It’s hard to do those things when you can’t lift anything, or move, or drive, or walk, or anything else. I tried to deal with him. Are you going to deny that you did not call my contractor? Did you not call and ask for his phone number? Yeah, I would duck my head too if I was you. The next time you talk about praying for somebody in your meetings, look up what it says about the widows and the orphans, okay.
President Tornatta: I appreciate that.
Linda Phillips: Yeah, I appreciate it too. I tell you what–
President Tornatta: Ma’am, I’m serious.
Linda Phillips: I’m serious too. I am offended that you people think I am so stupid that I really believe that I have to fix that man’s property.
President Tornatta: Please, I would like to go to the question. The question is, where do we go from here?
Commissioner Nix: I would like to ask Mrs. Phillips one more time, and, please, please, let’s keep this civil.
Linda Phillips: I’m trying.
Commissioner Nix: No, look, nobody’s raised their voice on this end, you don’t need to raise your voice. Mrs. Phillips–
Linda Phillips: That’s not raising it.
Commissioner Nix: Mrs. Phillips, if we were, hypothetically, if we were, if we would give you a little bit more time, is this something you can fix?
Linda Phillips: I have a man I’m looking at right now, I talked to him today–
Commissioner Nix: Okay.
Linda Phillips: –and he’s trying to understand why, he was going to call Mr. Jeffers and ask him why, again, that I have to do anything to that man’s property? That should be equal expense. Now, I don’t care whether the attorney wants to admit it or not, you told me that you were going to have everybody here that night, including that surveyor to find out what was going on. Now, whether you called him or not, I don’t know, but the man never came. Doesn’t it strike you odd that everybody that he deals with will never talk to me again?
Commissioner Nix: Mrs. Phillips, we don’t have–
Linda Phillips: Does it not?
Commissioner Nix: –we don’t have that in any other circumstances. This man deals with a lot of people day in and day out, we don’t have that problem.
President Tornatta: Mr. Jeffers?
Commissioner Nix: I can testify to that, I work with the man everyday and I know that.
Linda Phillips: Well, you know–
President Tornatta: Can you come to the podium please?
Commissioner Nix: Mrs. Phillips?
Linda Phillips: Me?
Commissioner Nix: No, just stand aside.
Linda Phillips: I’m listening.
Commissioner Nix: Okay, just let Mr. Jeffers speak please.
President Tornatta: I just need to know when was our first hearing on this issue?
Bill Jeffers: I would have to check the record, but it was either at the end of June, or the beginning of July. Your order was issued on July 15th.
Linda Phillips: And I had surgery (Inaudible)--
President Tornatta: Which was the–
Bill Jeffers: That was the second meeting, I believe.
President Tornatta: Which was the second, the time that we implemented something was actually the second time that we had–
Bill Jeffers: That’s correct, that was July 15th.
President Tornatta: –went over, which was moving in, okay, July 1st was the first time, July 15th was the second time, that we spent approximately one hour in each meeting deliberating and talking about what we were going to do, the issue, we had a hearing, the hearing was established, and we had a hearing. We discussed in the hearing that we were going to give, which was one month, if I’m not mistaken, past what was comfortable with the Board, which ended up being October–
Bill Jeffers: 15th.
President Tornatta: –twenty, October 15th, to get that work done. And, to my knowledge, what I’m hearing right now is that we are working on getting somebody out to get that problem. Now, my only issue here, Mr. Nix, is that it’s almost like, it wasn’t enough that we had a hearing, it wasn’t enough that we had a meeting, it wasn’t enough that we had a deadline, now we are accepting that somebody has done nothing to further this cause, and in that, we are going to try and allow this to go on farther–
Linda Phillips: No, you’re not.
Commissioner Nix: Mrs. Phillips, Mrs. Phillips, please, please, please, keep your comments to yourself.
Linda Phillips: He interrupts me.
President Tornatta: I’m not really comfortable with doing that.
Bill Jeffers: Well–
Linda Phillips: I guess, you are, you’re buddies with him.
Bill Jeffers: –before anything else is said, what I’m hearing is that there’s another contractor who wants to argue about–
Linda Phillips: No, he doesn’t want to argue.
Bill Jeffers: –whether or not he should be working on someone else’s property, which is what the last contractor told me when I called him, to see what his progress was. In other words, we were getting close to that time when the seeds needed to go down so they would sprout in time to establish root growth before winter comes on–
Linda Phillips: You can grow grass in the snow.
Bill Jeffers: –and I called him, to simply ask him what the progress was, and he said, well, a relative of Ms. Phillips approached me at the store and told me that they were still uncertain whether they should be working on someone else’s property, etcetera.
Unidentified: That’s a lie.
Bill Jeffers: He said he no longer wanted to be involved.
Linda Phillips: Well, he’s never told me that.
President Tornatta: And, we’re going to stop with this hostile situation–
Linda Phillips: Who’s hostile, besides you?
President Tornatta: There’s no hostility up here.
Linda Phillips: Yes, there is. You interrupt me–
President Tornatta: We asked you one question.
Linda Phillips: –you will not let me finish. You won’t let me finish.
President Tornatta: That’s because I’ve already heard all I want to hear from you.
Linda Phillips: You know what (Inaudible)--
Bill Jeffers: If there’s any–
President Tornatta: We have had–
Linda Phillips: –from you.
President Tornatta: Well, then go away.
Bill Jeffers: If there’s--
Linda Phillips: You go away.
President Tornatta: Because we are going to–
Linda Phillips: We’re talking, you go away.
President Tornatta: –render something.
Linda Phillips: Like Mr. Korb did, he’s not man enough to stay here and discuss it.
President Tornatta: Then this meeting will be over, and the final verdict will be you will owe.
Linda Phillips: Yeah, I know, because you’re a crook.
President Tornatta: Okay, I would make a recommendation that we keep on to what we have. We’re going to go ahead and do the process and then we will go ahead and bill her back.
Commissioner Nix: Is that a motion?
President Tornatta: That’s, your motion.
Linda Phillips: That’s not right.
President Tornatta: You’re making the motion.
Linda Phillips: You’re all (Inaudible).
President Tornatta: Because you have to make the motion.
Linda Phillips: If either one of you are running again–
Commissioner Nix: I make that motion.
President Tornatta: I make a second.
Linda Phillips: –(Inaudible) doing it.
President Tornatta: So ordered.
Linda Phillips: You’re a crook. I hope you lose that election.
President Tornatta: Motion to adjourn?
Commissioner Nix: Motion to adjourn.
Linda Phillips: I’ll do everything I can–
President Tornatta: Second.
Linda Phillips: –to get people not to vote for you.
(The meeting was adjourned at 7:15 p.m.)
Those in Attendance:
Troy Tornatta Bill Nix Jeff Korb
Bill Jeffers Ted C. Ziemer, Jr. Madelyn Grayson
Linda Phillips Others Unidentified Members of Media
VANDERBURGH COUNTY
DRAINAGE BOARD
Troy Tornatta, President
Bill Nix, Vice President
Jeff Korb, Member
(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)