VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

MAY 20, 2008

The Vanderburgh County Drainage Board met in session this 20^th day of May, 2008 at 5:52 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with President Troy Tornatta presiding.

President Tornatta: Alright, now we’re going to start Drainage Board immediately.

Commissioner Korb: Does that mean like right now?

President Tornatta: Yes. We did talk about, just kind of going back to our regular meeting, about the USI, those who want to see that report in its entirety, can see the written version and the video version on the Commissioners website.

Madelyn Grayson: Just for the record, I do not have the minutes from the last meeting. So, we’ll approve those on June 3^rd, for the Drainage Board.

President Tornatta: Good afternoon, Mr. Jeffers. This is the May 20, 2008 Drainage Board meeting, starting a couple, well, 52 minutes after 5:00.

Bill Jeffers: Good afternoon, President Tornatta. Thank you for taking the rezonings first, and thanks to Mr. and Mrs. Esche for waiting for the Drainage Board meeting to commence. They are the only item of business I have on the agenda for today. I had promised them last week that we would hold a meeting this week, and they wish to come state some concerns they have about a drainage problem in their backyard. Mr. Esche, I believe can come state that for himself, as best as anybody could.

Paul Esche: Thank you. My name is Paul Esche. I live in Clear Creek Village, on the north side off of Mt. Pleasant Road off of 41. I had called the Surveyor’s office last fall about a problem with my neighbor behind me. My house was there about three years ago. She built after me. She brought in a tremendous amount of dirt in her backyard to raise the level of her backyard, because she didn’t like the slope. That was after she had moved in. Last fall she came over to my house, a couple of different times, complaining of the ditch bank, saying that she couldn’t mow it with a riding lawn mower. Which, obviously, you can’t. I can’t mow my side, I don’t expect her to mow her side. She said she wanted to revamp the ditch bank, put even more dirt in it. I told her I didn’t think it was good idea. It was going to mess up the drainage system, putting that much more dirt in there and whatever else she was going to do to it. It was my understanding, after talking to Mr. Jeffers, that she had tried to get approval to do that. I guess tried to get a permit. It was denied. So, she proceeded to do it anyway. I’m not sure who she even had do it, but she did it on Labor Day last fall. So, I called the Surveyor’s office, and, you know, said that, you know, we have a mess out here. It’s out of control. There’s straw bales that are completely stuck right over top of the culvert. I knew that it was going to eventually lead to a problem as the water, because we live at the bottom of the hill, so, obviously, water comes draining all the way down. So, I, you know, called to complain to the Surveyor’s office. I have a letter here from Mr. Jeffers that he sent certified mail. I got a copy of it, it went to her. The amount of dirt that she put in without approval came to 27 loads. I guess, that’s what she told him. We’re talking about a quarter acre here, and this is just in the backyard and on the ditch banks. So, that tells you how big of an issue it was.

Commissioner Korb: Like dump truck loads?

Paul Esche: Yes. I have pictures here of what it’s amounted to, which is just a mess. These were taken on two different days. This was taken two weeks ago. As you can see, she takes zero care of her ditch bank, for instance, her weeds. This was taken on Mother’s Day. You can actually see that I mowed the ditch bank, because she won’t take care of it. You can see, I mean, there’s probably four foot of water next to the, on the culvert end. The culvert runs underneath the road. So, I’m not sure exactly what happened. I think, probably what happened is those straw bales that have been sitting there since last fall have started to break apart. I mean, they’ve been rained on I don’t know how many feet, and I would say that probably that straw got sucked back up in the drain. Well, the first pictures that were there that were a couple of weeks ago I saw it, and I was like, great. Luckily, it finally went down, by the next morning it was all the way down. Well, then, that second picture I think was on Mother’s Day, it did again, it filled up again and it slowly drains. I don’t know if the straw is going to push through. I had talked to Mr. Jeffers about that, he said probably if it’s straw, and that’s what the issue is, it’s probably not going to suck through. So, at this point, you know, I talked to him again and he said that I probably needed to come in and talk to you guys about it.

Commissioner Nix: I was out there yesterday with Mr. Jeffers and Mike Wathen from John Stoll’s office, and after looking at that, I mean, she’s, you can tell she’s added a tremendous amount of dirt and it’s changed the contour of her yard to where the dirt is actually sloughing off into the ditch. There’s been an attempt to place some rip rap to hold it, but it’s not holding. The straw is an obstruction. I would like to, just to cut to the quick here, because I feel like there’s something we need to do, and you guys if you have questions, but Mr. Jeffers has made some recommendations in this letter that he sent us, basically to remedy this situation. I think we need to look at this and have this taken care of, or get it taken care of.

President Tornatta: At that point, are you making a motion?

Commissioner Nix: Well, let me back up first. This is a dedicated drainage, the technical term, Bill, so that we’re clear on this?

Bill Jeffers: This is a subdivision that was platted during and after 1994. It falls under the ordinance, the most recent drainage ordinance. It is, the area we’re talking about is a platted drainage easement, and it clearly states on the plat, I’ve provided you that with the top of the last page, any pipe, fence, wall, building, pool, patio, planting, stored material, excavation, fill or other construction improvement or addition to, or alteration of the land within the drainage easement requires the prior written approval of the County Drainage Board.

Commissioner Nix: It’s obvious what she’s done. She’s added a bunch of dirt to give her more yard, but, at the same time, it’s caused this ditch, problems for the ditch. So, it’s not in the original intent or the design of the subdivision that this has taken place.

Bill Jeffers: That’s correct. The lady who owns the property at 9223 Big Hill Drive, directly behind Mr. and Mrs. Paul Esche, who live at 9224 Arbor Grove Drive, the lady imported the fill after she came to our office and was explained, as it says in this letter, rather than read the whole thing, you have it, it was explained explicitly that any alteration of that ditch would require an engineered drainage plan, brought to our office, reviewed and brought to you with the recommendation of approval. And, after you approved it, she could proceed. I would like to point out that pretty much the waterway of the ditch and where she would have put a pipe, had she put a pipe, as she originally intended, was on Mr. Esche’s property. So, I did show that to her and say, if you do this work, you’re working the majority on his property. You need to get with Mr. Esche before you do anything on his property.

President Tornatta: Mr. Jeffers? At this point, would we need to have a hearing, or is that covered by the denial of the work?

Bill Jeffers: I gave Mr. Esche two options, he could file a petition and have the hearing under the state statute that allows for him to petition you to order the removal of an obstruction. That, as you know, that’s a long, drawn out process. Or, the option of coming here today and simply putting it to you that it’s our feeling that the drainage code has been violated, and on the last page I give you some pertinent sections of the drainage code for remedies of violation, so that your legal counsel can help you with that decision. If this falls under a direct violation of the drainage code, a more quick and immediate solution might be, as I point out on the next to last page, give the lady ten days to remove the obstructions, and 30 days to initiate the removal of the excess fill dirt, rip rap, and other materials caused by her, to be placed within a platted drainage easement, restore the ditch to its original configuration as the developer constructed it three or four years ago, restore the flow line, the side slopes, the vegetative cover as it was shown in the plans that the Drainage Board originally approved. Or, present an engineered plan for the alterations and go forward in that appropriate method. But, the Drainage Board can impose a penalty, the way I read it, of course, you have your legal counsel to interpret it more exactly to you, of $100 per day for violation existing after 30 days beyond the date on which a violation notice was sent to the lady.

Commissioner Korb: Mr. Jeffers, I’m assuming you are probably going to hand this off to Mr. Ziemer, how comfortable are you with our legal standing at this point to proceed with what you’ve recommended?

Bill Jeffers: I feel completely comfortable.

Commissioner Korb: Mr. Ziemer?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I agree with Mr. Jeffers.

Commissioner Korb: I then make a motion to accept Mr. Jeffers recommendations, as presented to this board, to pursue, to let this lady know, to give her advance notice and to pursue any kind of legal remedies we should be deserving for this. So, I make that motion.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Tornatta: Alright, before we, before we go forward with that, I do want to find out one thing. It does say ten days to remove the obstruction, or potential obstruction from open ditch. My question is, could that be changed for a suitable plan to do that? I’m not wanting to prolong this. I guess, what I’m trying to go for is, right now there’s a lot of people doing a lot of business, and things are pretty busy.

Commissioner Nix: Plus, Commissioner, while you say that too, it is extremely wet out there right now.

President Tornatta: Right.

Commissioner Nix: That may give them a little bit more time to let things dry out.

President Tornatta: I mean, ten days to come up with a plan is probably appropriate, with business as it is. But, that’s just a proposal, to change the wording there, I don’t know what you see.

Bill Jeffers: I understand what you’re saying, President Tornatta, and I agree with what you’re saying, however, I think I asked her, or indicated to her in September 2007 that she should remove the silt fence and the straw bales and so forth before they got stuck in the pipe, and at least to go out and, now, I mean, in other words I don’t think ten days would be unreasonable to physically walk out into the ditch and pick up the straw and get it out of the ditch before any more of it washes into the pipe.

President Tornatta: I just don’t know her physical condition. I don’t know what the scenario–

Bill Jeffers: Well, then order me to do it, because it’s got to come out of there.

Commissioner Nix: Well, but besides that, the sloughing off of the dirt–

Bill Jeffers: That–

Commissioner Nix: –and all that, that’s something that needs looked into pretty quick.

Bill Jeffers: –right, that’s something that might take more than ten days.

Commissioner Nix: The whole hill is sliding into this ditch. Eventually, it’s going to all end up in the drain down the way.

President Tornatta: So, do we, is ten days appropriate? I guess, that’s what I’m asking, for her to do it, or to come up with a plan? To submit a plan to the county in ten days? That’s all really I’m asking.

Bill Jeffers: I understand where you’re going. When I wrote this, I was thinking specifically of the straw and the things that are in the ditch right now that could be just picked up by hand.

Commissioner Nix: In half an hour. Somebody could go out there in half an hour and pick it up.

Bill Jeffers: Right, but I understand what you’re saying. It’s up to you to exercise your prudence.

President Tornatta: I guess, let me ask that to the Board. If in ten days she comes up with a plan, are we okay with that? Then, from there–

Commissioner Nix: I am.

Commissioner Korb: Yes, but after that ten day period, what’s her window? Ten days? Thirty days?

President Tornatta: Thirty days to initiate the removal of dirt, rip rap, and other materials, right?

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir.

Commissioner Nix: Once again, I would like to see a little leniency there. It’s extremely wet and to do this she’s going to have to probably get on your property a little bit. To keep from tearing up your yard anymore and hers.

Bill Jeffers: That’s correct.

President Tornatta: In other words, they have no question that I think we have a wrong situation here, but in making it right–

Commissioner Korb: Shady.

President Tornatta: –we’re to respect everybody else’s, including–

Commissioner Korb: Shady.

President Tornatta: –contractors.

Commissioner Nix: After looking at that yesterday, Mr. Jeffers, I thought about this going back into the office, the easiest way out for her is to add a pipe to the length of that and bring some more dirt in. Which would help your yard out too.

Paul Esche: Right, right.

Commissioner Nix: If she wanted to entertain that, I don’t know.

President Tornatta: Okay, so amending it, the ten days to come up with a plan, keeping the 30 days to initiate the plan. We have a motion and a second. So, I’ll order that into the record.

Bill Jeffers: Thank you. For the record, Mr. Esche and I did not speak with each other and coordinate our jackets before the meeting.

Commissioner Nix: Motion to adjourn.

Commissioner Korb: Second.

President Tornatta: So ordered.

Commissioner Korb: Bill, can you stay on top of that for us?

Paul Esche: Thanks, gentlemen.

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir.

Commissioner Korb: Okay. Thank you, Mr. and Mrs. Esche for your patience.

Bill Jeffers: I’ll report back to you June 3^rd, when I report back on the one from last week, Mr. Arnett.

Commissioner Korb: Thank you. We are adjourned.

(The meeting was adjourned at 6:10 p.m.)

Those in Attendance:

Troy Tornatta                            Bill Nix                                      Jeff Korb

Bill Jeffers                                 Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.          Madelyn Grayson

Paul Esche                               Others Unidentified                   Members of Media

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

Troy Tornatta, President

Bill Nix, Vice President

Jeff Korb, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)