VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

JUNE 2, 2009

The Vanderburgh County Drainage Board met in session this 2^nd day of June, 2009 at 6:25 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with President Lloyd Winnecke presiding.

President Winnecke: At this time I would call to order the Tuesday, June 2^nd meeting of the Vanderburgh County Drainage Board. Attendance roll call, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Tornatta?

Commissioner Tornatta: Here.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Here.

Madelyn Grayson: President Winnecke?

President Winnecke: Here.

President Winnecke: At this time I would entertain a motion to approve the minutes of the previous meeting.

Commissioner Melcher: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Winnecke: A motion and a second. Questions or discussion? Hearing none, all in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Winnecke: Opposed? The minutes are approved.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Winnecke: Okay, Mr. Jeffers, good evening.

Bill Jeffers: Good evening. Tonight I have Deerfield, Section Four. It’s a modified final drainage plan. The modification being that there was, there has been a plat approved by Area Plan Commission, and a drainage plan that reflected that plat, whereby that road, the main road through, Carrington, carried down to Eissler Road and made a connection there. The developer has now chosen to terminate Carrington with a cul-de-sac, which requires a new plat, primary plat to come before Area Plan Commission. Area Plan Commission requires all new plats that come before them next Thursday to have prior Drainage Board approval. So, that’s a procedure that we’re going through now. The adjacent property owners, every property owner adjacent to this plat has been notified that there’s a Drainage Board meeting tonight, and that the Area Plan Commission meeting will be next Thursday, to give them an opportunity to view this. So, basically, nothing has changed in the drainage plan other than the roadway is closed, or not connected. There will be no pipe in the ditch underneath that roadway, and the detention basin has been moved to a location more appropriately shared by these two lots. There’s no additional storm water drainage involved. So, we’re basically at a procedural point. However, during the months that, after the original drainage plan was approved, I’ve noticed two problem areas. There may be more, but I’ve only had my attention called to two. One is at the terminus of Eissler Road, where it enters on to this private piece of property. There’s a driveway pipe underneath this driveway, right at the very southeast corner, and that pipe appears to either be undersized or placed in some manner that these heavy rainstorms that we’re having are overtopping that pipe at the present time under the underdeveloped condition. Now, we believe from the review of the plan, that the drainage basin will help limit the flow from this site after the development is completed. However, that pipe may be undersized to the extent, we don’t know, because there’s never been an analysis done of it. It may still be undersized to the extent that exceedingly heavy rainstorms will overtop the pipe and continue to wash gravel off this lady’s driveway. So, that’s a problem area that I’m asking, even though I’m recommending the plan be approved, I’m asking for additional study to take place between now and the presentation of the final street plans come to the County Commissioners, that an analysis be made by the engineer for the developer to determine whether this pipe is undersized and is in need of some repair or upsizing. There’s another identified problem up at this cul-de-sac in the northern portion that serves these four lots where the steep grade, existing grade, during these heavy rainstorms, enough storm water flowed down to bring mud with it and go up the driveway of this individual’s property. There was mud halfway up her driveway. Mike Wathen and I made the call and verified the complaint, it’s a legitimate complaint. She told us that over the years the two existing street inlets where this cul-de-sac is stubbed out at the present time had willow trees growing in them, and that after they were removed there’s a possibility those inlets are damaged or clogged or what have you. So, again, even though I’m recommending approval of the plan, I’m asking that additional investigation take place before the final street plans are brought to you by John Stoll, and that if these inlets are damaged or undersized for the kind of storms that should be anticipated, or undersized to the extent that they will not prevent flooding of this individual’s driveway. That flooding should be contained in the street system is what I’m saying. I’m asking for that to be studied and addressed with the street plans. I believe there may be individuals here who are abutting property owners that may have additional comments, but as far as I’m concerned the plan comports with the drainage code and I am recommending approval with the comment based on, including the comments that I’ve made.

President Winnecke: Go ahead.

Commissioner Tornatta: Well, I was just curious, I know that when this came before us before, Commissioner Nix at the time had a few issues with the drainage. Could we go back over the minutes at some time and review some of the things that he pointed out? I think that corner was the problem, was a problem.

Bill Jeffers: This corner down here?

Commissioner Tornatta: Uh-huh.

Bill Jeffers: Okay. The lady who owns the property, which the driveway enters into, is here tonight.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: I tell you what, I have down here a modified final drainage plan. If after hearing the presentation tonight anyone is uncomfortable with that, Area Plan Commission only requires that a preliminary drainage plan be approved prior to the hearing of the plat, okay? So, if you feel that you are still apprehensive, all I’m asking for is drainage plan approval, whether final or preliminary.

Commissioner Tornatta: Like I said, I don’t really know the ins and outs, I mean, that really leaned on Commissioner Nix to address some of those issues, and he had a good sense about how those issues were going to work themselves out or not, with construction in mind. But, I would really like to review, or have the developer review his comments on that last meeting, and if they’re satisfied that they have reviewed that and they are taking care of the problem and you are too, then I have no problem with approval.

Bill Jeffers: Okay. Yeah, that would be sound advice, because Commissioner Nix was very well versed in construction and drainage. I haven’t reviewed his comments from that meeting.

Commissioner Tornatta: Could we make a motion as subject to the carrying out of his comments, or do we need to hold off? Or are you saying that we could approve–

Bill Jeffers: Well, if you would like to approve this plan as a preliminary drainage plan, that will satisfy Area Plan Commission’s requirement. Then you could direct the County Surveyor and the County Engineer to follow up to make sure the final drainage plan and the final street plans address all of the concerns expressed tonight, whether by me, by the adjacent property owners, by Mr. Nix, etcetera, to be incorporated into a final drainage plan to be brought back to you at a later date, if that’s what you wish to do.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, before, I’ll make that in the form of a motion, and then we can hear the other people as well, but just to get it out on the floor.

Bill Jeffers: Okay.

President Winnecke: Okay, so the motion on the floor, to clarify, is for preliminary approval of the drainage and street plans pending further review by the County Surveyor and County Engineer to ensure that all street and drainage problems are adhered to based on public comment tonight.

Commissioner Tornatta: And Commissioner Nix.

President Winnecke: And based on the minutes from Commissioner Nix’s concerns in 2008. Is that–

Commissioner Tornatta: That’s my motion.

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll second it.

President Winnecke: A motion and a second. Public comment please.

Beverly Howell: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

Bill Jeffers: Okay, the lady who owns the property to which the driveway enters at the southeast corner has stated that, essentially, that the problem sounds like it’s been addressed.

President Winnecke: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: If she wishes, or her son wishes to make any further comments, they are here.

Beverly Howell: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

President Winnecke: Would you come to the microphone?

Beverly Howell: Okay, Beverly Howell, at 800 Eissler Road. I own that property down there, my son and I. We’ve had a lot of drainage problems. Mr. Dentino has been very nice about trying to alleviate them for us in bringing more gravel in. But, I’m afraid in the future, as he said, that pipe is not going to handle all of this water.

President Winnecke: Right.

Beverly Howell: I appreciate anything that anybody can do. I have no problems with Mr. Dentino. He’s been very good about helping us.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

Beverly Howell: Thank you.

President Winnecke: Thank you.

Commissioner Tornatta: Thank you.

Bill Jeffers: I would like to point out, this lady has been very patient over the years, because this isn’t just something that happened Memorial Day.

President Winnecke: Right.

Bill Jeffers: It’s been an ongoing problem. Is there anyone else that is an adjacent property owner that wishes to speak to this at this time?

President Winnecke: Okay, hearing no further comment on this issue. Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Tornatta?

Commissioner Tornatta: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Winnecke?

President Winnecke: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

Bill Jeffers: Okay, that takes care of what we need to do for Area Plan Commission. I have no other business at this time, but I see that there’s still several people in the audience that may wish to speak with you.

Commissioner Tornatta: Have we approved the minutes?

President Winnecke: We’ve already done the minutes.

Commissioner Tornatta: Any bills?

Bill Jeffers: No, sir, we have no claims to approve at this time.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

President Winnecke: Who from the public would like to speak next? Come on up.

Commissioner Tornatta: The Sennings are first.

Michael Davis: I’m with them.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, alright. The Clover stomping grounds.

Dave Senning: Oh, yeah. I’m Dave Senning. This is my wife, Paulette. Mike Davis–

Michael Davis: Michael Davis, 3101 Bergdolt Road. I live to the house directly north of them.

Dave Senning: Of us, yes.

Commissioner Tornatta: Sure.

Dave Senning: We are, and I would like to thank John Stoll, Chris Walsh and Bill Jeffers, they, we’ve been working with them, and they’ve, I think we’re on the right track. We have a concern. We get water off of Bergdolt Road, which is in between Clover and Oak Hill. It comes down alongside Mike’s house and then flows over on us. The one problem, the first part of May, I think John has sent you all an e-mail–

President Winnecke: Right.

Dave Senning: –this afternoon, so, you may not have had a chance to read it all, but we kind of wanted to let you know what was kind of happening on our side of it. We were looking at, and John had mentioned maybe, we don’t know if they can dig a ditch with the easement from the center of the road. On the north side of Bergdolt there is a pipe that has been put in. I don’t know if that was okayed from the county at one time. It’s been there many, many years, maybe 25-30 years. I don’t know if the property owners did it or what, but over time the ground has raised an inch, a couple of inches higher than what the pavement is. Bergdolt Road is a flat road, there’s no crown in it. So, they’ve had some ideas, Bill Jeffers and Chris have had some ideas about trying to get this solution taken care of, but, we just want to make a concern that we would like for you to look at. Our first priority is maybe opening the ditch, which would help us tremendously in getting the water on the south side of Bergdolt. The other concern is, the drainage from the Oak Hill-Bergdolt intersection. I noticed, you know, we haven’t had a chance for it to work yet, so we don’t know, but we had gotten water in our house and that problem was from landscaping cloth put in front of, from the contractor, put in front of a culvert pipe, which wouldn’t let it drain, and that ditch overflowed and came down Bergdolt and eventually ended up in our house. I was home at the time, I went up, I followed the trail of the water and found out that it was coming from this ditch. I took the cloth off of the culvert pipe and it sucked it right down. I do have a concern that with this culvert pipe, I have seen on heavy rains that this pipe does back up, and it’s a ditching, which is, which I feel, I used to work for the City Highway Garage, and I used to dig ditches with equipment and things and shoot the elevations and stuff, but, it’s on the city side so I know I can’t do anything with you, but down by the old Sigeco property where they store all of their poles and transformers and things like that, there’s ditches down there that are filled in, which all this water drains down on the north side where this culvert pipe, on the north side of Bergdolt, drains down, and I have seen that back up in that ditch. So, that would come, that’s the concern for me, because of the extra asphalt that’s put on that intersection, some of that is draining into the ditch and I understand that some of it will go into the inlets. My concern is we’re trying to keep that water that does drain off of the intersection, to try to keep it going down along his house and in the backyard of his house and up against my house, which eventually drains out to Clover Drive after it passes my house. I just want to make you aware of that, and in his e-mail he’ll talk to you about that, but we just kind of want to let you know our concerns with it. Do you have anything? Mike, do you have anything?

Michael Davis: Other than, you know, when we do get a hard rain, you know, we get water coming down Clover to begin with, and the houses there on the northeast corner of and east from there, water coming off the hill, coming down driveways and it will come down either to the east of the house directly to the east of me, or between our two houses and then eventually get to them before it goes on down. You know, half of my backyard will be under water, and I know where it’s going, it’s going to end up in their sunroom and in their property. It’s just a constant pain in the rear end quite honestly.

Dave Senning: John, John and Chris has talked about trying to, there is drainage grates for this culvert on the north side of Bergdolt. Maybe pulling some of that grass back so that the water can get to those grates.

Michael Davis: He’s right about that. They are overgrown, they’re blocked, or they’re above grade.

Dave Senning: So, there is, and those grates need to be changed. They’re an old style grate that stands up instead of sitting down on the barrel of the culvert there where the water can get into it, flow into it easier. They talked about putting a berm, a curb, the best scenario is putting a ditch in, open that up and putting a ditch in. If you can’t get that, the second thing is maybe putting a curbside on the south side of it with drainage.

Michael Davis: If nothing else, direct the water over to Clover.

Paulette Senning: Right, it should stay in the streets.

Michael Davis: Instead of through our yards.

Dave Senning: Right.

Michael Davis: It would direct it over to Clover. I don’t have a whole lot of problem with it going through my front yard. It’s the side yard that I’ve got a problem with. That we’ve got problems with.

Paulette Senning: It comes to our property. We have a drain outside our sunroom door. We’ve had a swale put in many, many years ago, the problem’s gotten progressively worse over the years. Things have changed, landscaping, the types of thunderstorms we have are more current, nothing tornadic in the two events in May, nothing like severe thunderstorms, it was a hard rainfall.

Dave Senning: Right.

Paulette Senning: Bill has even commented that from stats from 1995, back that far, that is shows that the waterfall from rainstorms has changed. We get these year round.

Dave Senning: Right.

Paulette Senning: So, our endurance, you know, it’s just compounded to such a problem with these two instances, and the Bergdolt-Oak Hill project we feel like contributed, it did definitely the first time–

President Winnecke: Sure.

Paulette Senning: –the second time, but then the other water flows. So, the quick fix, the temporary situation, great suggestions from John and Bill–

Dave Senning: And Chris.

Paulette Senning: –but in long term...and Chris, but in the long term what we really need to do, when we do have this tornadic weather, these huge thunderstorms that you don’t know when, they’re uncontrollable, is to have those ditches open on the north side of Bergdolt Road, or reconstruct with pipes, and that’s from the e-mail he sent you. That is a recommendation by John. Of course, I realize what this involves, sort of.

Dave Senning: Money is a factor, right?

Paulette Senning: But, the thing of it is, you know, why should we, would you want to accept water in your sunroom that could flow into your family room?

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Paulette Senning: Tile, furniture, carpet. So, we need a permanent fix. Either two of those solutions, the piping or the opening of the ditches is very, very urgent for our situation, because who knows when we’re going to have more than what we had in May at one given time. That’s going to ensure that we will have the possibility of being protected.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

Paulette Senning: So, we want our home not only livable, but we want it resalable.

President Winnecke: I understand that. I can appreciate what you’re saying. We did get an e-mail from John, a lengthy e-mail today from John. I had to print it out to read it actually. So, my recommendation is for us, give us a little bit of time to kind of study that e-mail and talk to Chris and Bill and Joe, John, I’m sorry, Joe is his brother, and figure out how we can scrape together the money and do what’s needed to be done for everyone.

Dave Senning: I just wanted to tell them again, thanks.

President Winnecke: Alright.

Dave Senning: Okay. They put in some good time.

Paulette Senning: They did, and very cooperative, very congenial, but my question back to you is when you talk about reviewing this and making a decision are you talking about the long term, the piping and the opening of the ditches, or are we talking about something now? I know that’s future, okay? But, what we’re concerned with is doing something as immediate as possible, such as the berm, the crest on Bergdolt, doing what John suggested. Is that going to happen for us immediately?

Commissioner Tornatta: Yeah, I can tell you that what they’ll have to do is get together, bring us some type of assessment of the problem, some type of idea of a solution, and then at that point we’ll have to sit down and put some pencils to paper and see what that’s going to entail cost-wise. Then, will that get the job done? It may or may not and we’ll have to retool.

Paulette Senning: I think we’re–

Commissioner Tornatta: I mean, I think our goal is to keep you satisfied.

Paulette Senning: We need immediate relief though.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Paulette Senning: That’s what we need.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Paulette Senning: Once John–

Michael Davis: It really wouldn’t take a very hard rain to (Inaudible).

Paulette Senning: Oh, hi, Chris.

Chris Walsh: I just wanted to butt in real quick.

Paulette Senning: Sure.

Chris Walsh: The berm we talked about, are you the gentleman on the corner?

Michael Davis: Yeah.

Chris Walsh: Starting at your neighbor’s driveway, I was ready to start looking at starting on that tomorrow. The cost is real minimal, if everybody’s acceptable to us doing that.

John Stoll: I had spoken to Chris about that, and he said his crews could do it. One thing that, obviously, you haven’t had a chance to read my nice, long-winded e-mail, but–

Paulette Senning: It’s a good one.

Commissioner Winnecke: It is good.

John Stoll: –the, as far as trying to grade that shoulder down on the north side, we’ve confirmed that there’s right-of-way on one of those properties on the north side, but not the second property. So, we’re still doing right-of-way research. I think, as a follow up to my e-mail, the County Surveyor, Bill Jeffers, made a number of good suggestions as far as additional follow-up work that also needs to be looked at. In the interim, if the County Highway can put up an asphalt curb and make sure that we’re not transferring the problem, as Bill said better than I did, at the tail end of his e-mail, that’s great. It appears that if an asphalt curb was placed and it went around the radius and tied into Clover that the water wouldn’t enter the property, but if there was a break, it’s just going to funnel the water in a different spot.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, but I would like to know that for sure. So, if that’s going to take you getting out there, or Bill Jeffers, you know, getting your heads together, addressing the problem and shooting some site, some lines, whatever it’s going to take. What I don’t want to do is I don’t want to throw up a curb, it pops over, or, you know, it doesn’t do it’s job and then we’re back to the same place. I know we want immediate, but I don’t want to do immediate if it’s not going to get the job done.

Paulette Senning: But it will help tremendously at this point. There’s several things that need to be done immediately that will relieve us of any future situation. The long term, the costly that John has projected, and also Bill, we understand, that’s going to take time. But, for something to happen, because this just hit us and it’s like a flood. Water was like a fountain coming down my steps. If we wouldn’t have been home, it would have been into our lower level, our family room and everything. That was just a rainstorm. That was not tornadic weather.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Paulette Senning: That was not thunderstorms predicted or severe weather, that was just a regular rainstorm. So, what we need now is what John has recommended and Bill is right on target.

President Winnecke: Chris?

Paulette Senning: And we need these things done now.

President Winnecke: Chris, what’s your estimation of the cost of what you could do?

Chris Walsh: A few hundred dollars, five hundred dollars maybe. It would, what this is going to do is help directionalize water, push some over to Culver, and it will keep it coming across the street, depending on the flow. I mean, you just don’t know what size rain, but it should help. I mean, it should definitely help.

President Winnecke: For as small as that investment is, I think that is worth doing immediately if it can offer short term relief. John is going to offer–

John Stoll: One thing there, I haven’t discussed this with Chris, but in looking at Clover Drive as it ties into Bergdolt, we want to make sure that the curb, if it’s placed around that radius, if you got an excessive rainfall it doesn’t cross Clover–

President Winnecke: Right.

John Stoll: –and end up at the southwest, in the property at the southwest corner of Clover and Bergdolt–

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

John Stoll: –because there’s a break in the curb. It stops shy of going around the radius at that southwest corner. In conjunction with that, it appears that there’s some milling work that would need to be done, and I have not discussed that with Chris as of yet. It’s in the e-mail.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right, and that’s what I’m getting to. I mean, we’re going to take care of your problem, and then we’re going to have three other faces up here telling us now we have another problem. What I want to do is to make sure that we can do our best to take care of as many problems without just throwing band-aids out to take care of your problem.

Dave Senning: Yeah, what happens when that water comes down by Mike’s house and in his backyard and up against my house, eventually, on the south side of my house, because I have a little drainage swale that used to help take the water around, it would come around the south side of my house and end up on Clover Drive anyhow. So, the water we’re going to divert around down Bergdolt and on Clover was going there anyhow. Once it passed my house it was going on down to the Stevens drain....is it the Stevens Drain?

Bill Jeffers: Sonntag Stevens.

Paulette Senning: Sonntag.

Dave Senning: Sonntag Stevens drainage ditch. So, the only problem we would have would be, basically, with Mr. Smith, Eddie Smith, which lives on that southwest corner.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

Dave Senning: And he’s in agreement. He said whatever we can do, but, John is right, the last time they paved that road, we’ve lived there for 30 years, so when they paved that road they left it up high where that road does–

Commissioner Tornatta: Uh-huh.

Dave Senning: –the water does get into people’s driveways, but I don’t know of any driveway to where, you know, it goes up to the house.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, John, if you were to look at the situation with Chris, or Bill, or whoever we think we need to get involved at this point, how long would it take you to make an assessment? Because once we have an assessment we feel like we’re pretty comfortable with the situation. I don’t have a problem with going forward, like I said, I don’t want to jump so far, so fast that we can’t take care of the problem at large.

John Stoll: I haven’t discussed with Chris as far as when we can meet out there, but (Inaudible).

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

Paulette Senning: Tomorrow?

John Stoll: I can’t be there tomorrow, because I will be in Indianapolis the next two days.

Paulette Senning: Tonight? It’s still daylight, isn’t it?

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, so, alright, and then, do we have a not to exceed? (Inaudible).

President Winnecke: Sure.

Commissioner Tornatta: Alright, I’ll make a motion that the Surveyor, Highway Garage, and the Engineer pool their resources together to figure out this problem, and to address the problem not to exceed $1,000.

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll second that.

President Winnecke: Okay, a motion and a second. Other discussion or questions?

Commissioner Melcher: We ought to ask the Surveyor what–

Commissioner Tornatta: And, I will say this, if it does exceed $1,000, it will have to come back here, that’s the only reason I make that comment. So, just so you know. If it takes something else to fix the problem and they come back and say it’s going to be “x” amount of thousand, I’m just saying that he has the right to fix that at this time up to $1,000.

Bill Jeffers: $1,000 materials?

Commissioner Tornatta: Well, yeah, we’re providing the labor, so, yes.

Bill Jeffers: Right, right, okay.

President Winnecke: And, with the caveat being that the collective brain trust is going to figure out how we can fix the long term problem beyond the short term. Okay, other questions or discussion? Hearing none.

Paulette Senning: Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

President Winnecke: You’re welcome.

Commissioner Tornatta: We haven’t voted yet.

Paulette Senning: At least there’s a motion.

President Winnecke: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Winnecke: Opposed? The motion carries.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Winnecke: Thank you very much for your patience.

Bill Jeffers: If it’s okay with you, because the person is your employee, and if it’s okay with John, because he supervises him, Mike Wathen and I will meet Chris Walsh tomorrow, because John’s going to be in Indianapolis.

President Winnecke: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: So, we can move forward quickly, is that okay with you guys?

President Winnecke: That’s perfect.

Commissioner Tornatta: That’s fine.

President Winnecke: Appreciate it.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, I’ll call Chris in the morning.

President Winnecke: Any other business to come before the Drainage Board?

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to adjourn.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

President Winnecke: We are adjourned.

(The meeting was adjourned at 6:55 p.m.)

Those in Attendance:

Lloyd Winnecke                        Troy Tornatta                            Stephen Melcher

Bill Jeffers                                 Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.          Madelyn Grayson

John Stoll                                  Dave Senning                           Paulette Senning

Michael Davis                           Beverly Howell                          Chris Walsh

Others Unidentified                   Members of Media

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

Lloyd Winnecke, President

Troy Tornatta, Vice President

Stephen Melcher, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)