VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

JULY 24, 2007

The Vanderburgh County Drainage Board met in session this 24^th day of July, 2007 at 4:34 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with President Bill Nix presiding.

President Nix: Good afternoon. I would like to call to order the Vanderburgh County Drainage Board, Tuesday, July 24, 2007 at 4:34 p.m.

President Nix: I will, I guess we don’t have any minutes from the previous meeting?

Madelyn Grayson: Yes, the June 26^th minutes have not been approved.

President Nix: Okay, and I will entertain a motion to approve, and, I think you may need to abstain. Go ahead, I’m sorry.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved.

President Nix: I will second that. All in favor?

Commissioner Tornatta: Aye.

President Nix: Aye.

Commissioner Tornatta: Ted, do we need to go ahead and do the officers?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Oh, yes, of this as well. Uh-huh.

Commissioner Tornatta: Wow, this is kind of nice.

President Nix: Right now I’m the President, so, I can’t do anything.

Commissioner Tornatta: I nominate Bill Nix, well–

President Nix: I don’t think it really matters.

Commissioner Tornatta: Mike? Okay, Mike Whicker, I nominate you President of the Drainage Board.

President Nix: I second that. All in favor?

Commissioner Tornatta: Aye.

President Nix: Aye.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: And then a Vice President.

Commissioner Nix: I would like to nominate Commissioner Tornatta as Vice President of the Drainage Board. I think you are already–

Commissioner Tornatta: I am.

Commissioner Nix: –but I just re-nominated you.

President Whicker: Second.

Commissioner Nix: All in favor?

President Whicker: Aye.

Commissioner Nix: Aye. Good afternoon, Mr. President. It’s all yours.

Commissioner Tornatta: Wow!

President Whicker: Well, welcome. I’m looking forward to hearing your report.

Bill Jeffers: Thank you, Commissioner Whicker, President Whicker. I want to congratulate you on your appointment as President of the Drainage Board. It’s a very exciting, you’ll find it’s an exciting duty.

President Whicker: Alright. Thank you.

Bill Jeffers: My name is Bill Jeffers, Vanderburgh County Surveyor. I serve as your technical advisor. The Drainage Board is created by Indiana Code 36-9-27. Essentially, the three Commissioners, by virtue of their office, serve as the three Drainage Board members. The County Surveyor serves as your technical advisor. If you read through that chapter, it’s rather long, it will probably take you three or four nights, because you’re bound to fall asleep 20 percent of the way through each night. You’ll find that the County Drainage Board is responsible for maintaining the regulated drains, which we have about 80 miles of regulated drain in Vanderburgh County, 20 miles of it is inside the city limits, especially on the east side, it drains about five square miles of that intensely developing commercial land between Green River Road, Washington, excuse me, Eastland Mall on out to the county line, including all of Wal-Mart, everything north of Lincoln Avenue, south of Old Boonville Highway, all that whole big, flat area. Those regulated drains are rather large. We have to keep them open so that that area drains, so it’s not flooded. It does drain very well. We have contractors working on those drains spraying herbicides on the cattails and other undesirable vegetation. We have contractors mowing them periodically, especially through the residential areas. We have consultants, engineering consultants who have studied those drains to tell us what we need to do to make them better, keep them in good shape, what we need to do to reduce the flood plain out there so that FEMA doesn’t raise the flood plain two and a half feet as they were wont to do in 2002, thereby creating a huge insurance burden on our commercial vendors, commercial property owners and developers. So, Drainage Board can get technical, and it can get, it is boring at times, but it serves a great purpose, and I think you’ll enjoy working with your fellow Commissioners and our department. In that regard we’re always available to you to answer any questions. You have a good attorney who understands the drainage law very well. I defer to him on all legal questions, but I’ll give you the layman’s answers and the technical answers about what we do.

President Whicker: Okay, well, maybe I should talk to Ted, but I had some questions about the relationship between the Drainage Board and the Levee Authority. Is there any common properties owned between the two? I know, there’s some areas, and correct me if I’m wrong, where the Drainage Board controls things that abut or are adjacent to Levee Authority property?

Bill Jeffers: That’s correct. We have one drain in particular called Eagle Slough or Eagle Creek that runs parallel with the Knight Township levee, all the way from Waterworks Road there at the Marina, I think they call that Catfish Pond.

President Whicker: Right.

Bill Jeffers: Our drain empties into that, that’s down by your LST monument. Okay, that creek then runs all the way, six and a half miles, basically, eastward to a half mile east of Green River Road. Which means it’s upper most reaches are just about three quarters of a mile short of Angel Mounds boat launch. So, you get an idea of how much area that drains. It runs parallel with I-164, and I-164 basically runs along the top of the levee from 41 on east to Green River Road. There’s three levee pump stations; K-1, K-2A and K-2B and K-3 that empty into Eagle Creek. So, we have to keep, basically, we’re, right now we have a pretty extensive study going on to make sure that we’re keeping all the obstructions out of that creek so that those levee pump stations and gates are unobstructed during the heavy rains that might, or back water that might affect the levee. There is one legal drain, regulated drain, called Aiken Ditch, which is kind of co-owned between the Levee Authority, or co-maintained let’s say. The city had a substantial bond issue that widened and improved Aiken Ditch from Pollack Avenue there at Hoosier, Pollack and Hoosier where the Indian Woods planned urban development is, the apartments.

President Whicker: I’m sorry, is that close to K-3, the pump station?

Bill Jeffers: K-1.

President Whicker: K-1.

Bill Jeffers: The first one out all the way out on Calf Lane. Are you familiar with that one?

President Whicker: Yes, I am.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, from that pump station back up to Pollack Avenue, our ditch, called Aiken Ditch was widened to act as a holding area for the huge rainfall quantities that run off and have to be pumped out onto the other side of the levee. That was done through a bond issue by the city, but it was done in our regulated drain. We spray, mow and maintain that drain, remove sediment from it and so forth, but the Levee Authority also, because we only mow it once or twice a year, they like to mow it more frequently. They are on a much more frequent mowing schedule than we are. So, that’s one that we more or less share maintenance on. Then, we try to work closely with Bob Mangold and his crew to make sure that where we’re receiving their water in Eagle Creek is always open to receive their water. Right now we’re having a problem with beaver dams. We need to remove some beaver dams that back water up against those gates. Other than that, we don’t have too much interaction with the Levee Authority. Yes, sir.

Bill Jeffers: First order of business, I put an agenda on your desk as a visual aid. We’re going to move to Buckingham Woods Subdivision, which is a final drainage plan. Essentially, what we do is we have what we call a preliminary drainage plan which allows a developer to bring in a conceptual drainage plan to give us an idea of how he or she intends to handle the drainage in a new residential or commercial development, because there’s accelerated run off and it has to be handled in accordance with our drainage code. Drainage Board in 1994 adopted a drainage code that requires detention so that the increased water coming from rooftops and from hard surfaces; streets, sidewalks, etcetera, is collected, carried down to a detention basin and held there and released at a slower rate so that it’s released into the original receiving creek or lake or river at a gallons per minute, at or lower than the original natural condition of that land. So, that if you look at this, the natural condition of the land, as you see on this aerial photograph is a wooded, just green, wooded area. Now, this particular layout shows 35 lots, the developer since has decreased that to 30 lots for marketing reasons and building reasons, but you can imagine 30 more houses sitting in there is going to generate some additional run off. So, he collects, if you’ll look on the plan in front of you, he collects that additional run off in about a 6,000 square foot lake down here in the corner of the property before it’s released into this creek. You can hardly tell where the creek is, but it’s the greener vegetation running through the woods here. You can see a slightly greener area running down through here. He releases it at this point right here from that large lot. The reason that lot is so large, it has a lake in it.

President Whicker: So, it’s a lake, not a ponding area?

Bill Jeffers: It’s a standing pool, permanently standing pool of water in this case. You can have a dry basin if you like under our ordinance, but, in this case it’s a permanently standing pool of water. That is preferable to some developers, because they then have a lake front lot. So, when, the reason for a preliminary plan is because they are less costly than all the calculations and planning and man hours that go into a final plan. But, the Area Plan Commission requires at least a preliminary plan to be approved before the plat for that subdivision goes in front of the Area Plan Commission. They don’t want to deal with drainage in their meeting. They want us to deal with drainage here. They want the public to be assured that the drainage is being adequately dealt with so it’s not a part of the zoning or platting process. All those technical issues are discussed here. So, that’s already happened, and it has been, the plat has been approved by Area Plan Commission. Now, it comes back to you for the final drainage plan, because the developer knows he’s gone through zoning, he’s gone through platting, he can start building now when we approve this final plan. So, he goes ahead and spends the additional money to instruct his engineer, who in this case is Keith Poff from Sitecon, in the green shirt here, who went ahead and developed all the final details that we need to ensure that this plan can be put in the ground. Not only is it in the depiction there in front of you, but I have a set of computa....you know, it’s all run on computer sheets, it shows all the calculations necessary to ensure the plan works. Our drainage ordinance is about 95 type written pages long. It has all the details in it, all the charts, all the layout information, all the requirements. As I said, it was adopted in 1994. It’s served us well. Anything where you establish 10,000 square feet of new, hard surface or greater you have to come through here and run these plans through here to be approved by your board. Our office reviews the plans and comes and assures you that they comport with the drainage code, and in this case I am telling you at this time that Buckingham Woods Subdivision, final drainage plan, comports substantially with the drainage code for Vanderburgh County, and the County Surveyor recommends that you adopt this plan.

President Whicker: I understand. Okay, do we have a motion?

Commissioner Tornatta: Upon the recommendation of the Surveyor, I move approval.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Whicker: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, thank you. Sorry to take up so much of your time with that explanation, but maybe the first time around it might help.

President Whicker: I appreciate it. I’m going to need your help. I’ll come and see you.

Bill Jeffers: Please do.

Bill Jeffers: Boren Subdivision is a one lot subdivision, which otherwise would be a minor subdivision, we would never see it here, because we don’t have those come before the Drainage Board. However, Area Plan Commission required, because it sits back here off the accepted county road, and it’s not connected to that county road by a 60 foot frontage, then this, the owner of this property had to acquire a 40 foot right-of-way, minimum, for a cul-de-sac less than 1,100 feet long, to make a legal connection to the accepted county road, in this case Hogue Road. Now, that’s all technical requirements by the subdivision code. So, now the layout you see is a legal layout for a one lot subdivision, which if it had the frontage on Hogue Road would have been a minor sub and never would have come here. Because it will not establish 10,000 square feet of new, hard surface. They don’t intend to build a road there, that is simply technical confirmation to comport with the code. It’s going to remain a driveway. There’s an existing home up here. They just divided off a piece of land from a larger parent parcel. It already has a lake established. There’s a letter on your desk from a registered engineer, Jim Farney, from Bernardin Lochmueller and Associates. The letter looks like this. He describes the condition of the lake. He also attached, with an e-mail, onto an e-mail that he sent to me, he attached a dozen pictures showing the entire area, the lake, the condition of the lake. He certifies that it’s in very good condition, it’s very stable. I think I drew on your plan an arrow that basically shows a lake drains off this property and over to that larger lake, which is in the flood plain, with no problems associated with it. There’s not going to be any new building. There’s no need for a drainage plan other than he’s sending me a sketch showing just a basic drainage pattern, but as a formality so that I can go before, come to you....I sit over here at the Area Plan Commission, maybe you’ll be lucky enough to be appointed to the Area Plan Commission. It’s another fun meeting. I assure the rest of the board members that a drainage plan has been approved. It’s just a technicality. So, at this time I’m asking you to allow me to give approval to the sketches and drainage plan that Mr. Farney has brought to me, because it doesn’t really require that you approve a formal drainage plan, since there’s not 10,000 square feet of new, hard surface.

President Whicker: Okay, do we have a motion?

Commissioner Tornatta: On the recommendation of the Surveyor, I move approval.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Whicker: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

Bill Jeffers: Today I have a couple of reports to bring to you. The first one is the Surveyor’s report on the condition of the reconstructed channel of Carpentier Creek. There’s a slide show associated with this report. Basically, on March 22, 2004, a date by the way, which I don’t believe anyone other than Madelyn and myself were here in these chambers. I think there were other members of the board and another attorney on that date. The Vanderburgh County Drainage Board entered into an agreement with the Indiana Department of Natural Resources. This report is also on your desk if I lose you in boredom. In order to satisfy the requirements of a permit for a developer to reconstruct the channel of Carpentier Creek as it now passes through the Kohl’s department store property on Rosenberger Avenue, west of the City of Evansville. In other words, without the agreement that the board entered into, DNR was not going to issue a permit to relocate this substantial waterway, they have jurisdiction. So, they kind of had us over a barrel. The agreement pertains to DNR’s application number FW22706 by Dennis Owens, the developer here in the audience today. The developer of Carpentier Creek Pavilion, for which the Drainage Board approved drainage plans in 2004. The agreement requires an annual inspection and a report on the condition of the reconstructed channel, limited to the following items; mowing of the channel and the overbank areas, keeping the channel banks and overbank areas free of debris and obstructions such that water can flow unimpeded through the channel and overbank areas, and maintaining the shape and condition of the channels and overbank areas in accordance with the approved plans. Basically, this is an agreement that DNR has forced on other Drainage Boards in the state, and following the agreement, the Drainage Board then entered into an agreement with the owners and developers of Carpentier Creek Pavilion whereby they become responsible for any and all maintenance and repairs required to keep or return the channel and overbank areas of the reconstructed creek into a condition in accordance with the approved plans. The following photographs, taken a week ago Thursday, and comments address our stated obligations. Okay, let’s go to slide one, the recommended, this photo was taken standing on Hogue Road bridge, looking south along Carpentier Creek towards the Kohl’s entrance bridge. That’s the entrance to the development. The channel is much wider than the original creek. The approved plans allowed for the passage of run off equivalent to a 100 year storm without flooding adjacent property. The as-built drawings, which I have in my office, submitted by Morley and Associates, show that the horizontal location of the low flow channel, that’s the wet area down here, varies from the proposed location for this section of the channel. Also in this slide you can see the well vegetated side banks. The grass cover is adequate in accordance with density requirements of our local code, but is not maintained in accordance with stanDNRds for a subdivision. The area should be kept mowed and manicured, the same as a lawn, or with growth no taller than nine to 12 inches in height. The young trees shown over here on the west bank, and a few of them down through here that are barely visible, were planted at the direction of the Department of Natural Resources and the Army Corp of Engineers as mitigation, and are subject to the regulations of those agencies. However, it appears many of the trees are not planted at the locations designated by the plan. The intent, as the County Surveyor understands it, was for the trees to be closer to the creek, down in this area, the greener area that’s now very weedy, in order to provide shade for the waterway. Basically, what happens with the Corp of Engineers, DNR, those folks, when you mitigate for ripping out all the trees that used to form a canopy over the original waterway, they like for plantings to reaccomplish the shade that once kept that water cool, so that the wildlife habitat is the same or better than what it was before. A recent Corp of Engineers report makes specific observations and recommendations regarding the tree plantings, and the report can be appended to this report, if the board wishes to consider it’s contents. I have the report here and I’ll provide it. No debris or significant obstructions to the flow of water are seen in this view. Slide two is taken from the same position, but the camera has been lowered so you can see a pool of water at the end of the rip rap shoot leaving Hogue Road bridge. The slide basically shows a typical standing pool of water where velocity slows down after passing through a narrow bridge opening, and spreads out into a wider channel. That’s the only reason why it’s wider there. It’s no big deal. Slide two shows some horse weed over here, well, right there and on this side that the County Surveyor thinks should be sprayed or mowed. Otherwise managed to prevent invasion of the remainder of the channel by these types of undesirable weeds. Slide three is taken standing on the east bank, by the Kohl’s parking lot and looking across to their entrance bridge. Again, the grass cover is very dense and adequate, according to local codes, but is not mowed in accordance with our drainage code, and is not in accordance with what the County Surveyor believes was the intent of the board’s agreement with the Department of Natural Resources. However, some of the recommendations in the most recent Corp or Engineer’s report seem to conflict with local codes regarding the maintenance of lawns and waterways. Before we move on, there are some sycamore trees, that is a little closer to where the trees should have been planted. There are two young sycamore trees here. There’s one, there’s one, there’s one. I believe the Corp is saying that there should be more of those, so they eventually shade the waterway. Okay, slide four shows some Canadian thistle that is invading the area. Canadian thistle is a noxious weed, very invasive and should be removed before it spreads out of control. That’s this prickly looking thing here and some others. Slide five is also a close up of horse weeds. I think I’ve said pretty much what needs to be said about that. Other than if this were a county regulated drain, the County Surveyor already would have contractors spraying and mowing this waterway. The board may wish to consider enforcing either the requirements of the drainage code regarding subdivisions, or the weed control ordinance to have this area mowed. But, again, conditions attached to the federal and state permits conflict with local stanDNRds. Slide six will show you the apparent reason why the developer or the property owner has not mowed all this invasive weed cover. In addition, the Army Corp of Engineer inspector report specifically notes the absence of sufficient signage, and asks that additional signs be posted on both banks of Carpentier Creek to prevent mowing and spraying. Slide seven, taken from the entrance bridge to Kohl’s and looking back up at Hogue Road, this is a concrete batch plant back in here, that’s a county bridge, and we’re just looking back up the vegetated waterway of Carpentier Creek with all conditions previously discussed. But, the purpose of this slide is to show sediment accumulation directly at the toe of the bank. This is the toe of the slope here, and from here out to the low flow waterway is all accumulated sediment, probably about a foot of sediment that’s accumulated there over the past three years. Same on the other side of the ditch. Lush, green vegetation is growing on the accumulated damp sediment. That’s why it’s so green while the side banks are dry at this time of year. You should expect silt bars to accumulate in a wide channel, because as the velocity dissipates when it comes to this narrow waterway opening, everything back in there comes down out of the hills at a rapid velocity, then it comes to this new, reconstructed waterway that can handle a 100 year flow, it spreads out, the velocity slows down and all the heavy particles fall out, as you see them accumulated under this vegetation. Whether or not this accumulated vegetation constitutes an obstruction can only be determined by running a HEC-RAS program for waterway capacity calculations. The existing configuration of the channel has not been run through a HEC-RAS computer program. Without that information, or a modified plan, the County Surveyor cannot determine whether the channel is adequate at this time, only that it does not fully comport with the originally approved plans. Slide eight is taken standing on the same Kohl’s department store bridge, looking south downstream along the reconstructed channel. You can basically see the continuation of the same shape and condition of the channel, only with less invasive weeds. They hadn’t made it down this far. This is not too bad of a cover, it just hadn’t been mowed. Slightly deeper water in this area. Slide nine, taken from the bridge at it’s southwest corner. I include this slide because there’s some erosion in the overbank area, the vegetation is not thick enough, and I’m asking that the owner of this property go out and repair that erosion and establish thicker vegetation. Okay, also in this picture, if you look across to the east bank of the ditch you can see Kohl’s parking lot on the far bank. As shown in this photograph, and on the as-built plans that were submitted, that bank over there, ditch bank, does not conform to the approved plans and grade. Furthermore, a retaining wall as shown on the approved plans has not been constructed, and there’s evidence along the guardrail here, you can see it sagging, that the waterway embankment is not stable, and the pavement and the curbing for that parking lot is slowly moving into the creek. Slide ten is taken from the extreme south end of Kohl’s parking lot and looking south to the Lloyd Expressway, over Carpentier Creek. The agreement with the Department of Natural Resources, the county is responsible for inspecting and enforcing only to a point 316 feet north of that Expressway, or approximately where a waterway enters right here. So, our limit of our jurisdiction is right in here. Also, in slide ten you can barely see a beaver dam, approximately here, and I believe there’s another one down here–

President Whicker: I’m sorry, does this tie into the Howell Wetlands, eventually?

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir. Probably about another mile south of that bridge Howell Wetlands empties into Carpentier Creek, just north of Broadway Avenue.

President Whicker: There might be some issues with spraying, do you think, if the chemicals would go into the wetlands? I know there’s lots of regulations about that.

Bill Jeffers: There is. There’s only certain types and concentrations of herbicides that can be sprayed into wetlands or into standing bodies of water. Those are all controlled by the EPA, and, excuse me, the Environmental Protection Agency and the Indiana Department of Environmental Management. Those may be issues that we’ll have to take up with the Corp of Engineers before we order anybody to spray, that’s correct. You can see a significant pool of water in this slide, but the beaver dam is inside the city limits and outside the limits of the reconstructed channel for which your board is responsible through the agreement with the Department of Natural Resources. Slide 11 shows a close up of the kind of aquatic vegetation that’s established in that pool of water behind the beaver dam. It’s clearly the type of vegetation you would expect in a wetland, and does not in itself constitute an obstruction, or, I just don’t see any problem with this kind of vegetation. The animals thrive on it. It’s not blocking water. I don’t have any problem with it. Slide 12 is also a shot from Kohl’s south parking lot looking across the same creek at approximately the same location. This is the vegetation you were looking at earlier down here. It shows the basic nature of the wetland that’s developing adjacent to and as a result of the beaver activity that backs the water up. While taking the photograph I noticed several redwing blackbirds actively nesting and defending their territory, especially in this area of cattails and willows right through here. I say that because redwing blackbirds specifically are indicative of good wetland habitat. They don’t like anything but good wetland habitat. They feel safe there. That’s where they nest. That means it is a wetland. Also, several cowbirds were laying their eggs in the blackbird nest, indicating active nesting activity in a successfully developing wetland. I say that because cowbirds don’t incubate their own eggs. They follow the redwing blackbirds around, lay their eggs in their nests, and then become a part of that flock. So, this is a very active nesting area, and it is indicative of a well established wetland. Slide 13 shows basically the same area, just a different shot. It’s showing you a broader view of the standing, of water standing on hydric soil, adjacent to the waterway, and the wetland is growing up west of the creek. Until very recently this entire area shown in the slide was nothing but a bare mud hole, a borrow pit, that turned into a dust bowl during dry seasons out there underneath, or right below the University Shopping Center. But, now, with the beaver activity and the reconstructed creek channel, the old borrow pit is quickly becoming a wildlife haven and a green space that looks a heck of a lot better than it used to. So, in summary, the board is a signatory to an agreement with the Indiana Department of Natural Resources. You must receive this report annually. The board has also agreed with the developer to notify the developer, or his or her heirs and assigns of any required maintenance efforts required to keep the channel and the overbank area in accordance with the approved plans. So, the County Surveyor did conduct, last Thursday, the required inspection for 2007, finds no significant impediment to the flow of water through the portion of the reconstructed channel and overbank areas that are subject to the agreement, no debris or conditions other than a lack of mowing and spraying that may be out of compliance with the approved plan, except that the information available to the County Surveyor, through the as-built plans submitted by Morley and Associates, show that the existing shape of the reconstructed channel is relatively close to, but not exactly in conformation with the existing reconstruction, with the existing approved plans, does not conform exactly to the approved plans with regard to grade, alignment and tree plantings. So, at this time, the County Surveyor recommends that the board, through the County Surveyor if you wish, notify the developer and the landowners of the following requirements; immediately repair the erosion noted in this report, instruct the consulting engineers for the owners to complete a HEC-RAS analysis of the reconstructed channel and overbank areas where they appear not to conform to the originally approved plans, and then to submit a set of modified plans, or else finish the work in accordance with the approved plans. I’m avoiding any recommendation to mow or spray until we resolve those issues with the Corp of Engineers. The developer and the landowners should then proceed with submittals for state and federal permits that may be related to modified plans, to implement the resulting approved plans, to complete their mitigation if it is not completed at this time, and to finish all activities associated with the reconstruction of Carpentier Creek at Carpentier Creek Pavilion. Then, I have a disclaimer, “Nothing in this report should be construed as the endorsement or approval of plans or action which may be contrary to requirements of applicable federal, state or local permits and regulations.”

Madelyn Grayson: May we make a tape change quickly?

(Tape change)

Bill Jeffers: Now, it may be obvious to some persons in this meeting or observing this meeting that I have not addressed the western unnamed tributary that enters Carpentier Creek, under Rosenberger Avenue, that drains Bob’s Gym and everything back up to Boehne Camp Road. The reason for that is it’s not covered by your agreement. There are some issues associated with the existing constructed west tributary, but those issues would better be addressed at a Commissioners meeting after John Stoll and I have talked together and so forth.

Commissioner Nix: Mr. Jeffers, are those issues, do they involve the culvert at all? Or are you just saying drainage issues west of the culvert on Rosenberger?

Bill Jeffers: The culvert appears to not have been installed at the proper elevation and grade, etcetera. Okay, I’m going off the Corp of Engineers report. So, it’s in that report if you would wish to look at it at that time.

Commissioner Nix: Do you know about what the variation is? Because–

Bill Jeffers: It seems like about a foot.

Commissioner Nix: –there was an obstruction out there when they put that in, and I think Mr. Stoll, I don’t know if you’ve had a chance to talk to him or not, there was a water line–

Bill Jeffers: Sewer line.

Commissioner Nix: –sewer line or something that they, that was a problem getting the correct elevation on that.

Bill Jeffers: Right.

Commissioner Nix: So, I think that’s something we need to look at.

Bill Jeffers: Right, and the Corp is basically saying that because of that, they’re not sure if it has the capacity that it was designed to carry, because the grade has changed. Also, that in that channel there’s substantially more rip rap was applied to the bottom of the channel, and it’s acting as a French drain, so that the creek completely dries up and you don’t see....if we could just have any of the first three shots. Well, how about number three? You don’t see a low flow area like this. You just see dry rip rap. All the water is flowing beneath that rip rap, and so the vegetation has completely clogged the low flow channel, and there’s some concern about that. These are technical issues that will have to be resolved at some point between all the agencies.

President Whicker: But, you’re pretty confident there’s no health issues? We don’t have stagnant water with mosquito problems?

Bill Jeffers: No more than what you would see here. There is some standing water on the west side of Rosenberger Road along Bob’s Gym property. But, no more than what you see here.

Commissioner Nix: Mr. Jeffers, you had mentioned some corrective items, do you have a time frame that you would like to see those done within? Have you thought about that at all?

Bill Jeffers: We’re supposed to notify the property owner within 14 days of you receiving this report. I would say that we would like to hear their reply within the next couple of weeks, after they receive notification. You know, we don’t meet again until the 14^th of August, let’s hear what they have to say about the notification. Let’s see if they’re progressing in an appropriate direction at that time.

Commissioner Nix: So, really what you’re asking us to do today is just accept this report?

Bill Jeffers: And tell me to send them notification of the recommendations.

President Whicker: Of the erosion, the HEC-RAS and modified plans, basically those three items, Bill? I mean, that’s what we want to notify them about? To respond?

Bill Jeffers: Yeah, the erosion, the HEC-RAS analysis and any modified plans that might be required to finish the work in accordance with the approved plans, yes sir.

President Whicker: Okay.

Commissioner Tornatta: I make a motion to accept the inspection, annual inspection report of Carpentier Creek and all the recommendations of the County Surveyor.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Whicker: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Whicker: Is there anyone out there that wants to speak to any of this? Okay, thank you, Bill.

Bill Jeffers: Thank you.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, the only remaining report that I have is on the wetland area that the County Commissioners proposed to purchase from the State of Indiana. It lies north of Waterworks Road, east of 41, south of I-164. I wish it looked like that, we could farm it.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Bill, for President Whicker’s sake let me just tell you that the State has various surplus lands around the state, and it’s become a policy of the state to try to sell those to counties in the state when both the county and the state thinks it’s appropriate. The state offered to sell us, what is that, Bill?

Bill Jeffers: 72 or 73 acres.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: 72 or 73 acres for $50,000, well, it’s now almost six months ago, I think. We negotiated with the state, saying, you know, we really had no substantial use for this property, and we would just almost as soon the state kept it, at that price. They came down to $10,000 that they offered to sell it to us for. Didn’t feel they could donate the property, so, at that time we did entertain that offer. We did a phase one environmental survey on the property to make sure there were no environmental problems there. It has a clean bill of health, environmentally. It is now really a matter of the County Council approving the county’s purchase of this property for $10,000. That’s where the matter is now. At one of the Council meetings it was indicated that a possible use for this property, and it was your initial thought that one possible use for this property would be for wetland mitigation. Now, you’re going to report further to us about that.

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir. All of that is correct, and leads us to the point where I’m going to say that Commissioner Musgrave was interested in acquiring this property for the county, and was investigating various potential uses for this property. Some of the thoughts were a natural area, a green space, park land, riding trails. There’s another piece, this is one parcel, and then it’s separated by some woods from the second parcel that’s adjacent to Waterworks Road, where the pointer is. That second parcel has county road access and it’s all wooded. There’s no standing water there, but let’s go back up to the other parcel. Together they comprise 72 acres. So, you can see that there’s a potential for wildlife habitat, riding trails, walking trails, there’s adjacency to the proposed greenway. Commissioner Musgrave asked me if I had any thoughts about other uses that would be of express value to the county. Recently Green River Road plans required extensive encroachment into what Corp of Engineers and DNR considered wetlands. They required the County Commissioners to go find other areas of the county, and I think it’s down in Bayou Creek, is that where you guys ended up acquiring some mitigation ground? And, go there on farm land, or whatever, and establish it to wetland to mitigate for destroying what the Corp of Engineers and DNR considered wetland along each side of Green River Road where you cross Pigeon Creek. Well, that’s standard practice for any development that displaces what the Corp of Engineers or DNR considers wetland. You have to mitigate. Sometimes it’s at a two to one rate. They decide what the quality of the wetland you’re destroying or displacing or filling, and they tell you, okay, that was high value wetlands, so it’s going to be four acres for every one that you displaced. In most cases it’s two to one. Some communities have established wetland mitigation banks, so that when industries want to locate in their municipality, they already have improved property and acquired wetland credits from the Corp of Engineers for their activities. In other words, if you were to take this farm land right here, and this acreage, which is not part of what the state offered, because a farmer owns that, if we would take that and make it look like this land that the state owns, we would get at least two to one credits for every acre we turned from farm land into this, we would get two credits. Sometimes as much as four. Then if say a large corporation came down here, like Toyota, and wanted to locate in Vanderburgh County, and they were going to displace five acres of wetland at their assigned site, development site, they could buy wetland credits from the county government for ten acres. Thereby, their permit from DNR, and their permits from the Corp of Engineers would happen like that. Whereas, usually it takes six months to a year to go through the permitting process. So, it would be a great economic development tool if we had a wetland mitigation bank. So, we explored that option with some consultants, and it looked really good. It looked like a really good option until we delved very deeply into the Corps rather byzantine formulas for what kind of credits you get, and we found on this particular piece of property that, basically, it’s already a wetland, and there’s very little we could do to these mature tree areas to improve it. We could go into this very shallow borrow pit and establish a bald cypress swamp. We could get some credits for that. That was about the extent of the credits we could get, and they would be at a rate of about 1/10 of a credit per acre, rather than what we had hoped for, two credits per acre.

Commissioner Nix: So, basically, the fact that it’s already a wetland, for all practical purposes, discounts that?

Bill Jeffers: Right.

Commissioner Nix: Because you can’t trade wetland for wetland, basically?

Bill Jeffers: It really minimizes what value it would be as a wetland mitigation bank.

Commissioner Nix: Because it already is wetland?

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir. So, at this point in time–

Commissioner Nix: Since you’re not adding any additional wetland?

Bill Jeffers: Not really. You could raise the quality of that wetland, but they just don’t give you that much credit. I would think for a bald cypress swamp they would give you much more than what they actually would give you. So, at, basically at this time I’m withdrawing my endorsement for this particular parcel as a wetland mitigation bank.

President Whicker: Bill, can you zoom out just real quick, so, I can get a better idea of where that is? I know it’s, how far away from the river is that? Can you zoom out on that a little bit?

Bill Jeffers: Is this active? Or, is this a PDF? Okay.

President Whicker: I mean, I’m familiar with the area. I know Staub has a lot of property just–

Bill Jeffers: Oh, yeah. The area right adjacent to this, some of that acreage is owned by Koester Contractors, and I would love for the county to buy that, because it’s farm ground, and you could get beaucoup credits to convert it to what we just looked at, but that’s not for sale. Well, I’ve heard it might be for sale actually, but I’m not sure it’s going to be for $10,000 for 72 acres.

President Whicker: So, is that white area what we’re looking at there?

Bill Jeffers: Yes. Here is your, this is your state line, and that’s the old channel for the river. Actually, the river’s out a little bit further down, on the other side of Ellis Park, down in this area. So, you’re a good mile from the river at that, at the intersection of I-164 and 41,which is right here, I would say you’re a good mile from the twin bridges, north of the river.

Commissioner Tornatta: Real quick, and I don’t know, Ted, if you have to say anything, but I would like to cut this part short, it’s just because I’ve got some people who have made mention of interest, and I want to talk to the attorney about processes by which if we want to entertain anything. So, before we go too far down this road, I would kind of like to just cut it short. We are running short on time to get out of here anyway.

President Whicker: Bill, could we table this?

Bill Jeffers: Sure.

Commissioner Tornatta: Yeah.

President Whicker: And, you can show me this.

Bill Jeffers: I just wanted to, you know, you’re on the agenda–

President Whicker: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: –for the money tomorrow, and I just wanted to bring that to your attention. I have one more item.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Before you do that, just also for President Whicker’s information, the state has indicated that if we elect not to purchase this property, they will then set up an auction and will sell the property to the highest bidder. So, another thing that we were kind of keeping in mind was it’s now in the state’s hands, it could be in the county’s hands, does it make any difference to anybody that it falls into the general public’s hands through, or any member of the general public for whatever uses they might want to make of that property. If that be a private hunting preserve, or whatever. So, that’s another possibility.

Bill Jeffers: Right, it would be very nice to have it as a permanent conservation easement, but my only real concern at this point is that whoever purchases it, that the state would divulge to them, unlike they did not divulge to us, exactly what the limitations of that property is.

Commissioner Tornatta: Ted, if an individual would buy it from the state, then let’s say they wanted to donate the other land to the county, could they then deed it to the county?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: They could.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, and then, it would cost us an appreciable amount of money to go through the process of doing the bidding, but if the state would do it, obviously, it would cost us nothing and we get the same effect.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: We would.

Commissioner Tornatta: Thank you.

Bill Jeffers: I just, I think there may be some great ideas out there, but I do believe someone from the state should divulge to any potential buyer what the limitations are, because surely INDOT knows what the limitations of operating in a wetland are.

President Whicker: Well, Bill, can I get a hold of you and go down there with you, and anybody else, any other Commissioners that would like to go. I would like to see it. I am pretty familiar with that area. I would be curious to know how much part of the year that is under water, if any, and, you know, things like that.

Bill Jeffers: Sure.

President Whicker: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: I have an encroachment agreement, a stanDNRd agreement that’s been reviewed by the County Attorney. He may have some comments on it. It’s accompanied by a $22 check for the cost of the recordation. It shows that Vectren would like to encroach the drainage easement and right-of-way along the east side of North Burkhardt Road, in front of the new Old National Bank building, just north of Sam’s Club, with an electrical facility to serve the new Old National Bank. I would recommend that we allow them to move forward with this.

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Whicker: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

Bill Jeffers: I have some claims for the regulated drains that we’re responsible for maintaining. They represent finished work by our contractors. All of the work’s been inspected, and the required paperwork is attached.

Commissioner Nix: Move approval of the claims.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Whicker: All approved?

Commissioner Tornatta: Aye.

Commissioner Nix: Aye.

Bill Jeffers: Thank you. I have no further business before the board.

Commissioner Nix: Motion to adjourn.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Whicker: Okay, we are adjourned. Thank you.

(The meeting was adjourned at 5:30 p.m.)

Those in Attendance:

Mike Whicker                            Troy Tornatta                            Bill Nix

Bill Jeffers                                 Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.          Madelyn Grayson

Others Unidentified                   Members of Media

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

Mike Whicker, President

Troy Tornatta, Vice President

Bill Nix, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)