VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

JULY 1, 2008

The Vanderburgh County Drainage Board met in session this 1^st day of July, 2008 at 5:55 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with President Troy Tornatta presiding.

President Tornatta: Good afternoon. It’s about 5:30 , Tuesday, July 1, 2008. We’re going to commence our Vanderburgh County Drainage Board meeting.

President Tornatta: Can I have approval of the previous minutes? Bill?

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

President Tornatta: Second and so ordered.

President Tornatta: Mr. Jeffers, good afternoon.

Bill Jeffers: Good afternoon, President Tornatta, Commissioner Nix. Commissioner Korb is soon to come back. I’ll say hello to him when he does. Our first set of drainage plans is Cambridge Hills, Section II. It’s a preliminary plan. As I indicated in my e-mail to you earlier this week, it’s basically a reworking of a previously approved plan. They reconfigured some lots to better suit the market today. It will be going to Area Plan Commission next Thursday, July 10, and requires your approval before it can move forward to APC. The plan comports with the drainage code for Vanderburgh County. The County Surveyor recommends approval.

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

Commissioner Korb: Second.

President Tornatta: So ordered.

Bill Jeffers: The second drainage plan is Cambridge Section II. A preliminary drainage plan. The same comments apply. It’s a minor reworking of a previous plan. It requires your approval to move forward to Area Plan Commission for the plat approval. It comports with the county drainage code for a preliminary plan, and the County Surveyor recommends approval.

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

Commissioner Korb: Second.

President Tornatta: So ordered.

Bill Jeffers: On your desk is an 8 ½ “ by 11" sketch that looks like this, from Texas Gas Transmission, stamped by William R. Long, Professional Engineer, and signed by Mr. Long. It’s, because Drainage Board permission is required to cross regulated drains, Texas Gas Transmission is asking for your permission to cross Helfrich Happe Ditch, just south of Duesner Road on your overhead, at that location. Also, to cross Cypress Dale Maddox Ditch at a location closer to Cypress Dale Road. Both of these locations are several hundred feet, or, well, a fairly close proximity to Seminary Road, to the east of Seminary Road. Then, the gas line will pass under Cypress Dale Road, immediately east of Seminary Road, and there will be a pump station at that location. The pump station has been approved by site review. The notes on here are in compliance with my requests that backfill be compacted to 90 percent of maximum density by the Proctor method, that any subsidence subsequent to the filling of the trench will, is subject to additional repairs, and that all disturbed areas on either side of the legal drain will be re-seeded and re-vegetated to a minimum specified by those notes. There will be a five foot minimum cover over top of the gas line pipe under the flow line of the ditch. There will be a three foot minimum cover out where it rises back up to existing ground. All this is in compliance with the specifications that we require for any pipeline crossing. I recommend that you grant permission to Texas Gas Transmission for crossing Helfrich Happe and Cypress Dale Maddox ditch in conformance with this drawing.

Commissioner Nix: Move approval.

Commissioner Korb: Second.

President Tornatta: So ordered.

Bill Jeffers: We’re now at the point of hearing the Jerry Arnett petition, requesting the Drainage Board to order the removal of certain obstructions that he identified in his petition. The petition is in order. The County Surveyor did investigate the location of the alleged obstructions, and found that an obstruction did exist in the form of grown up vegetation, brush, trees and general debris consisting mainly of concrete blocks, concrete chunks and other minor debris. I’m very happy to report today, if we’ll look at the slides now, that when I went back out there last week to take some pictures of all this obstructing material, that a substantial amount of clearing had been done by individual residents, whether they were working together or working individually. This is Mr. Arnett’s property, and it’s looked like this for some time. Mr. Arnett mows his grass. We’re standing at the north line of Mr. Arnett’s property, and that telephone pole, or power pole there is approximately his south line. You can see the change in vegetation from what normally grows on a dry lawn, to what grows in a chronically wet area. Next slide, will show you, let me get my bearings here, I may make some mistakes along the way, and several of the residents and property owners are here in the audience, and I’m sure they’ll draw your attention to any mistake I make. I welcome them to do so, but I was working out in the woods, and I might not have gotten all of these properties exactly correctly identified. However, this piece of property that you’re looking at now, I believe to be Rodney and Norma Jarvis of 3217, immediately south of the petitioner. Again, you can see that they keep theirs mowed nice and clear. Again, you can see the vegetation growing on dry ground, as opposed to the type of vegetation that grows in a chronically wet condition. Now we can look at the next slide, which I believe to be Connie Brassard, 3213 N. 12^th Avenue. Again, she keeps hers cleared. There may be a slight obstruction right here where you can see dry ground and wet vegetation on either side of it. I don’t assign that blame to anyone other than the fact that water sits there so chronically that sediment dropped out and caused a slight high spot there that might represent a very minor obstruction. The next slide shows the ditch entering the property of Joseph Schutte. As you can clearly see, the property, well, you can actually see the channel wandering through this area, somewhat open, probably has been cleared at some time in the past, but has since grown back up.

Unidentified: It was cleared the last few days.

Bill Jeffers: Mr. Schutte is here in the audience, and I think he, I believe he just said it’s been cleared in the last two days. I wouldn’t have a picture of that. These pictures, I believe, are from last Wednesday. The next slide, now we’re at the far end of the project at 3105 N. 12^th Avenue, where the drain enters into a pipe that connects to a pipe system out at Allen’s Lane.

Commissioner Nix: Before you go any further, that’s basically turned around looking the other way then?

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir. We’re now at the very south end of the drain looking north. Rather than walk through the woods at the point we just left, I got in my car and drove around to the south side and thought that I would work north. Not being the young whippersnapper squirrel hunter that I used to be. Okay, so, we’re looking at property I believe to be owned by Carol Sue Helmerich, 3105. You can see it needs some clearing. Next slide please. Now, at the north end of Ms. Helmerich’s property, I believe this to be right at the property line with Martin, excuse me, Ronald and Joella Martin of 3109. I might not have my property line exactly right, but this is where a fence is. This area still needs to be cleaned. I believe this is still owned by Helmerich, but I’m not positive. Now, we have to get down in the ditch and start walking. I was so pleasantly surprised, and I really want to thank everyone who took an enormous amount of effort, after receiving their notices, to do this kind of work. It did not look like this the first time we were out there. When our contractor went out there to examine it, and came back with a $2,000 bid to remove all of this, which I thought was very reasonable, very low, it did not look like this. Now it does. So, these folks are to be credited very much with their hard efforts. I believe this to be 3113 N. 12^th Avenue, Arthur Gibbs. And, looking north, the next slide, I guess, would be, I’m thinking it’s 3117 N. 12^th, Ligia Shrewberrry. Then, the next slide, we’re back out in the clear. This, apparently, has been maintained for some time.

Unidentified: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

Bill Jeffers: Is that Mr. Brown?

Unidentified: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

Bill Jeffers: Okay, so that would be Thomas and Daisy Brown at 3121. You can clearly see it’s very similar to Mr. Arnett’s property in that what’s in the ditch, what’s in the drain is slightly different vegetation than what’s up in the yard. So, but it has been cleared long enough for that to have grown up nice and green. Then, the next slide will show you who I believe to be Brian and Amanda Sartore, 3201 N. 12^th. I apologize if I’m mispronouncing anyone’s name.

Commissioner Nix: Back up, there are two of them together.

Bill Jeffers: Oh, two together? I’m sorry. That’s Brown and Sartore together, I think. I may have missed a property in there, a lot of them are fairly narrow. I might have walked right past one.

Unidentified: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

Bill Jeffers: To the north of you? Okay. Then, the next slide we are past Sartore to Jewell Drake. It looks like it was recently cleared. You can see the cutting over here, 3205 N. 12^th.

Unidentified: That’s my property line right there.

Bill Jeffers: Okay. So, this is where Mr. Sartore stops–

Unidentified: (Inaudible).

Bill Jeffers: Okay, and then the next slide, we’re back getting a little bit into the rough, and I believe this densest part, again, is Mr. Schutte, where we first went into the woods from the north. Like I say, I may not, I did not go out and uncover any property corners, so, I may have not made exact identifications, but there are several folks here today, who I’m sure can clear up any mistakes I made. Basically, what I want to say, if anyone needs the entire statute I have copies of that. I think I put one of these on each person’s desk. It’s just a one sheet, it starts off IC36-9-27.4-19. Is that on your desk?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I don’t have one.

Commissioner Nix: I don’t either.

Madelyn Grayson: I don’t either.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, oh, we haven’t finished the slides. Here’s some recent cut, just showing you that this area has been recently cut. Lots of hard work going on there.

Unidentified: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

Bill Jeffers: Okay, and then the next, but that, there’s still some minor debris left in the form of concrete blocks–

Unidentified: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

Bill Jeffers: –and concrete chunks and stones and what have you that is still a minor obstruction. Then there’s some areas that really do need to be cleaned up. Here’s some concrete chunks and some brush and so forth. Then, I’ll show you, I believe, the fella, oh, this is where the pipe, I’m looking south again where the pipe picks up the ditch, and, that’s Ms. Helmerich’s property, and showing you that that area needs to be cleaned up for the water to efficiently get into the pipe. Then I believe there’s one last picture, I believe the fella who has been helping me direct your attention to the proper properties, this shows you the work that he and some of his neighbors have accomplished. That’s just a small portion of what was removed from the ditch. So, they have–

Unidentified: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

Bill Jeffers: –so, that’s two, maybe three lots, something like that. It shows you what kind of work they did in the last month or so, or less than a month, and, again, I would like to sincerely thank them for their effort. It shows a sincere effort on the part of these neighbors to comply with Mr. Arnett’s request to clear the ditch. So, that brings us to this piece of paper I put on your desk. I’m not asking you for any action at this time, but should the board wish to take an action after hearing the rest of the evidence, and the testimony of others, that if you find under this chapter on behalf of the petitioner, and a determination is made that this grew up naturally or was unintentional, but that you still want to find on behalf of the petitioner that the drain needs to be cleared, you could authorize the petitioner to remove the obstructions that remain, you could authorize the respondents on who’s property there still is stuff to be removed, you could direct the County Surveyor to remove the remaining obstructions, or you could direct that the obstructions be removed by joint efforts of at least two of those three entities. If you choose to do that we need to more positively identify all of the tracts that are benefitted by the repair of the drain. That may include all, or it may include more of the tracts you have viewed tonight. You have to identify the owners of all the land that benefits by this improvement to the drain, because the cost of clearing it, should there be any cost, will be a portion to all of those benefitted by the clearing of the drain. It’s my hope that we can continue in the direction that these neighbors have so far moved, and, hopefully, not incur any cost that would be spread out amongst anyone, because what’s fair for one is fair for the rest. They have taken a great effort so far, and I think the rest of them should take the same effort. But, those are your choices, and then I’ve included the definition of a drain, this ditch meets the definition of drain, and I’ve included the definition of an obstruction, what remains in that ditch meets that definition, in my opinion. So, there you have it, and, like I said, I noticed on the sign in sheet that several of the neighbors are here in the audience tonight.

President Tornatta: I would like to call right now for the, do we have anything from the petitioner at this time?

Bill Jeffers: The file contains his petition, and the petitioner is here tonight.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: If anyone comes up, you can use the bottom right hand button as a laser pointer on this screen here. You may ask Brenda to call up any one of those slides that you would want to view.

President Tornatta: Alright, would the petitioner please come forward? State your name.

Jerry Arnett: Ladies and gentlemen of the Council, my name is Jerry Arnett.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Jerry Arnett: When I had filed this petition, at the time, there was no clean up effort, and I had started this petition, actually four years ago. I wrote letters to everybody on the block, and even on the 11^th Avenue block, so we could get this cleared up. Standing water is what I was concerned with. Standing water in the back of my yard, and the back of Ron’s, you know, Mr. Jarvis’ yard, and also to the north of my property was fairly deep, plus, it also elicited a lot of mosquitos. It was really bad. You couldn’t even go out there and enjoy your area, your own yard. However, seeing these slides, and seeing that these neighbors have already done their clean ups, I haven’t walked back there, and I’ll be honest about that. When I filed this petition, I thought everybody had already known about this, because I started it four years ago. Bill Jeffers, he had, I’ve been in contact with him constantly, and I’m greatly, I’m pleased to see what everybody has done. With my filing of the petition, if everybody can get together and clean it and stuff like that, like they’ve been doing, I’ve got no objections. I really don’t want nobody to incur a cost. $2,000 is a bit of money, you know, for all of us, and I understand that, and me being the petitioner, I don’t even have any obstruction in my particular area, it was just the settling of the water. Whenever it rains, it just wouldn’t drain. I don’t want to put anybody in money harm, if you understand what I mean. You know, I would like for it to be taken care of by the neighbors themselves, because that’s what I asked for four years ago. I didn’t just, I just filed this petition maybe three months ago with Madelyn. So, I really have nothing else to add, except I just now see that people are cleaning up and stuff, and I’m very happy for that. I, again, I don’t wish no hardship on nobody, just that it is a problem and it needs to be addressed. I don’t want anybody to have to come out of their pockets, to be honest.

Commissioner Korb: Have we had a hard rain, Jerry, or, Bill since this–

Jerry Arnett: This year so far hasn’t been so bad, but–

Commissioner Korb: I mean, we’ve had some hard rains.

Jerry Arnett: We’ve had some hard rains. I have planted a weeping willow in my yard, and it subsequently sucks up a lot of the water out of my area, because weeping willows need a lot of water. It gets plenty of it.

Commissioner Korb: So, you’ve not noticed the standing water like you have in the past?

Jerry Arnett: Like I have in the past, that’s correct.

Commissioner Korb: Okay.

Jerry Arnett: It hasn’t been that bad lately, especially this year. Last year, however, it was a different story.

Commissioner Korb: Sure.

Jerry Arnett: You know, and it was just kind of hard to even let my kids go out, you know. So, Connie Brassard, she’s done her best. I’ve seen her do her best on cleaning up her property. Her property is two blocks to the south of me, right next to Ron Jarvis’ house, and she’s cleaned up her area. She’s single, she’s, you know, she’s a widow, and she’s done her best in her area, but just for some odd reason, we just can’t get none of that water to drain. I don’t know what it takes, and I was just trying to be a good neighbor, and, you know, plus I also have to watch out for my children, you know. So, I apologize to all of them, I didn’t really mean for anything bad to come of this, I just wanted something to be done. That’s my main goal. It’s not to cost the county any money, or cost the neighbors any money.

President Tornatta: We appreciate that, Mr. Arnett, and the point’s well taken. We understand that at times you have to do this to get the ball in motion.

Jerry Arnett: I had written letters four years ago to everybody.

President Tornatta: That’s fine.

Jerry Arnett: Everybody, individually, you know.

President Tornatta: Any other questions of–

Jerry Arnett: I paid for it all out of my pocket.

President Tornatta: Any other questions of this Board? Okay. Mr. Arnett, if it’s okay with you, we would like to hear from the remonstrators, so we can kind of move this thing on.

Jerry Arnett: Yes, thank you very much.

President Tornatta: If you are a remonstrator and would like to come up, state your name and anything you have to say. We would enjoy hearing from you. If not, we’ll move on.

Jana Kirk: Hello.

President Tornatta: Hi.

Jana Kirk: My name is Jana Kirk, aka Jana Salsman, which is on the property. I actually live on Allen Lane and 12^th Avenue, so, my yard is fenced in and I’m over the drainage ditch, or the–

President Tornatta: Culvert.

Jana Kirk: –drain itself.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Jana Kirk: It’s filled with dirt. So, I wanted to clarify a few things for myself, whether or not there’s going to be any damage to that itself. The other thing that I wanted to clarify is that it says in the letter here that I got, that the culvert is on 3101, which is my address, but it’s actually on 3105. So, I wanted to just clarify that in the notes, that it’s not my property that the drainage ditch, or that’s coming in to the culvert. I wanted to clarify a few other things, there used to be a guy that lived on Allen Lane east from me that cleaned that ditch out. He died a few years ago, I kind of took it over, I didn’t know that it needed to be cleaned or anything, but a few years ago somebody stuck a five gallon jug in the drainage thing, and then there was back up. So, I got damage into my yard, and that’s sort of when I found out about it and took it over. But, there is trash in there all the time. So, it’s not just, I think, the hard rains, and it’s not draining, but trash gets in there, kids play in there and they put things in there to plug up, I found a fire extinguisher in there, all kinds of things. I try to clean it out, it’s not my property, but I’ll go weed eat it and clean it out. So, anyway, the opening is fairly open, but on down you can see the stuff. I just wanted to make sure, for my property, that it’s not actually on my property, because I don’t want to incur any of the cost. I don’t think that would be my part, and whether or not there’s going to be damage to any of the fence or my property when they clean that. It sounds like it’s just going to be cleaning further on down. But, again, I think a lot of it, if people want to help out is just cleaning actually, or keeping the trash out of the opening into the ditch, because people just, I mean, I find the strangest things in there.

President Tornatta: Right.

Jana Kirk: And, it’s not all stuff that can wash down there. It’s stuff that’s stuck in there, like the fire extinguisher. It was an old metal one which is very heavy, and it probably included at least a fourth of the drainage ditch. Then other stuff will catch on there. So, that’s a big issue. I don’t know if there can be anything put in front of that to stop the trash, because I do go down and clean it out on a regular basis and try to weed eat. But, when that gets plugged up, you can see it, it just fills up like a bathtub. That’s when I got damage, and it actually eroded the ground on both sides of the opening, because the water stayed there. That’s when I noticed it actually backed up into my yard and caused damage to, around my concrete thing. So, I’m trying to keep that open, but it’s not just, I think, the trash and the overgrowth down, it’s what gets into that area, which is not always put there, because of the rain, I think, sometimes it’s just stuff that gets stuck in there.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Jana Kirk: I think also the gradient to the ditch has lost, you can look down from where it’s at, and it’s a lot, it’s lower there, but then the other it’s kind of not draining the right way.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Jana Kirk: So, I don’t know if they’re going to actually have to dig stuff out. But, they talked in the letter about the soil, they’re not going to put the soil back, so, again, I just want to make sure, I was trying to clarify if any of this was going to be left on my property.

President Tornatta: Well, one of the options that is out here is that everyone would just take care of their property behind their house, take care of their portion of the ditch, and if it’s all done properly, it should flow smoothly, and this all would go away.

Jana Kirk: Yeah, and like I said, I could take care of the opening, which is not on my property, but I just wanted to make sure that it was noted somewhere that the culvert is actually not on 3101, it’s on the property north of there. Mine is just the ditch which is actually covered with grass and (Inaudible).

President Tornatta: So, you don’t, at this time, have any overgrowth in your ditch?

Jana Kirk: No, it’s flat grass, mine is grass.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Jana Kirk: I was from, when you looked down into and saw the opening to the ditch–

President Tornatta: Right.

Jana Kirk: –the telephone part, there you would see, if you went further you would see a fenced in yard–

President Tornatta: Okay.

Jana Kirk: –it’s kept cut, you know, a couple times a week.

President Tornatta: Any questions?

Jana Kirk: I just want to make sure that it was noted somewhere that it’s not on my property, because I don’t want to incur costs for something–

President Tornatta: Absolutely.

Jana Kirk: –that I don’t think is my problem. Like I said, I think just cleaning it out–

President Tornatta: Stay right there.

Jana Kirk: Okay.

President Tornatta: Any questions of the Board? No questions? Thank you very much, Jana.

Jana Kirk: Thank you.

President Tornatta: Okay. Anybody else?

Bill Jeffers: What Ms. Salsman is talking about is, right there at the entrance to the pipe, and everything beyond that, which I didn’t take a picture of, south of that Allen’s Lane is flat lawn and it’s fenced in. I included her address and 3101 because, at the time, we didn’t know exactly how far, we were going to have to identify obstructions. Was the pipe so small that itself was an obstruction, and would have to be removed?

Commissioner Nix: Can we, do you know which ones, which property owners have the obstructions now? Because it looks like a lot of this has been taken care of.

Bill Jeffers: There’s probably two, there’s two that I believe need to be cleared of vegetation, and major stuff.

Commissioner Nix: Can we address those? Because, I mean, I’m hearing a whole lot of good things have happened--

Bill Jeffers: Right.

Commissioner Nix: –but, it seems to me like we need to get to the point.

Unidentified: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

Commissioner Nix: Okay.

Unidentified: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

Bill Jeffers: While I was out there taking pictures, a lady who represented herself as owning 3105 N. 12^th Avenue, but did not introduce herself as Carol Sue Helmerich, she was very nice, but, I mean, she just came up and asked me what I was doing on her property, etcetera. You know, I identified myself, and told her, and she proceeded over to her neighbors house to talk to her neighbor, who appeared to be a friend, who has a garden on the other side of the ditch. Okay, I said, I’ll see you down at the hearing, and I hope by then that this part of the ditch is cleared too. It would be great if it were. She said something about poison ivy, etcetera. This part of the ditch needs to be cleared. I believe it to be behind and on 3105 N. 12^th Avenue. The other that I believe needs to still be cleared is owned by Joseph E. Schutte, 3209 N. 12^th Avenue. I believe that needs to be cleared of vegetation and brush. All the rest of them, I believe, only need minor debris to be raked up, so it doesn’t float down to where Ms. Salsman says it gathers up against the pipe. That’s just a routine monthly, or bi-annually thing. Just rake up that loose stuff, that forest litter, whatever falls on the ground so it doesn’t float down there.

Commissioner Nix: Mr. President, I wonder if I could ask if either one of the property owners of those two properties was here?

President Tornatta: Absolutely.

Joe Schutte: Schutte.

President Tornatta: Schutte? Then, Mr. Jeffers, if these two are given a certain amount of time to comply or comport with the drainage function, and they do not, could the petition be amended to include those who have done that, as not to make them incur the cost?

Bill Jeffers: I believe what you could do is after you hear all your testimony here tonight, if you want to continue the hearing to another date, you are able to do that under the statute, the way I read it. Then you could direct the Surveyor to do a follow up investigation to determine whether everything is copasetic. If it’s not, to report back to you on a certain date, because you have to say what that date is going to be tonight. Then I would report back to you whether I think any obstructions remain. Obstructions being materials that significantly impede the flow of water to the ditch.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: Not insignificant.

President Tornatta: Right.

Bill Jeffers: Okay.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Just to ask you one question, do you have a recommendation for the Board, which isn’t going to impact anything now the way we’re going, but, maybe later, whether the obstruction is intentional or unintentional?

Bill Jeffers: I can’t determine the intent of the concrete blocks and that type of thing. Those could have been vandalism, someone threw them in the ditch that didn’t own the property. I can’t determine those to be intentional. The rest of it is natural overgrowth or natural sedimentation.

Commissioner Nix: Which could be interpreted either way.

Bill Jeffers: Which is up to the Board, in other words, no one intentionally planted those trees there. Those are all native species that grow in a ditch, but they were allowed to grow up.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: But, someone could intentionally not cut them or trim them.

Bill Jeffers: That would be the, that could be the Board’s interpretation.

Commissioner Nix: Thank you.

President Tornatta: Alright. Mr. Schutte?

Joe Schutte: Yes, my name is Joe Schutte, I live at 3209. Now, I’ve cleared out about a five to six foot section back there behind my property. The water flows perfect back there. Now, there is some vegetation that I don’t know if it needs to be cut, I mean, I’m talking about trees–

President Tornatta: Could you bring that up, please? The Schutte.

Bill Jeffers: That would be the south end where you can clearly see some of the channel that he has cleared coming out of there. But, then there’s this one at the north end that’s a lot more wooly.

Joe Schutte: Yeah, show the north one. There you go.

Bill Jeffers: That’s the north end looking into–

Joe Schutte: Right, right. Now, I have trimmed out some of the vegetation that’s growing up on either side, but, at the same time, I do have like, not really a trench, but there is a clearing to where water can flow through there. I took the vegetation, probably three or four foot wide, to where it actually flows through there, and took it all out.

Commissioner Nix: When did this take place?

Joe Schutte: This was over the last, past weekend. I was out there Sunday morning doing some more of it.

Commissioner Korb: This was after Bill–

Commissioner Nix: After you had taken pictures?

Joe Schutte: Yes. Okay, what I would like, maybe some of the landowners could help me out, where’s the actual property line back here? I have no idea. I don’t know if it’s the telephone poles.

Unidentified: The whole property is actually–

President Tornatta: You’ll have to come up, I’m sorry.

Jerry Arnett: Under, when I first started investigating all of this, everything from there to the back of the fence, where the fence is, for the next houses over, it’s supposed to be our property, and we are supposed to be, the homeowners, be in charge of clearing it. You know, keeping it clear, and keeping it well maintained. That’s as far as what I know. I know I own all the way back to the fence of that property, to the 11^th Avenue, the back of 11^th Avenue. Mr. Schutte has the same thing. That is, I mean, it’s in your deeds and so forth. It’s all, it says it’s all your property. The property lines are pretty wide.

Joe Schutte: Okay, that was another concern of mine, because at the very end of mine we have the 11^th Avenue fence going there, and there’s a lot of vegetation growing up. Now, there is like a little hump going from the end of my property to the 11^th Avenue fence, there is a hump going, probably from my property all the way down to two or three lots, and it’s full of trees and everything else. I never did clear that at all, because I thought that was part of the 11^th Avenue.

Commissioner Nix: Is that in the flow line of this? Is that what you’re talking about?

Joe Schutte: It’s on the other side of the flow line.

Bill Jeffers: I would not intend, and I didn’t intend for everything to be cleared from ten feet outside each side of the bank. That would be unnatural, that would be destroying habitat, basically. All I’m looking for is the waterway itself. Just the waterway. It may be ten feet wide.

Commissioner Nix: It sounds like that you may have taken care of that? Is that–

Bill Jeffers: Anything over that, anything over and above that would be their choice. It’s their property if they wish to clear it.

Commissioner Nix: Right, right, if you want to let stuff grow beyond that.

Bill Jeffers: The only problem would be if it’s overhanging and something falls out of those trees, you know, leaves or branches, then they need to pick it up. But, I’m not asking for it all to be cleared out.

Commissioner Korb: Joe, I’m sorry, go ahead. What I would like to suggest is that, Bill, if you would, please, I mean, obviously, Mr. Schutte is here tonight, the other property owner is not, give them notification they have until the 15^th of next month to get, or this month to get this done. Then, we’ll seek some sort of remedies.

President Tornatta: You want to continue the meeting then?

Bill Jeffers: That would be two weeks from today.

Commissioner Korb: Today, right.

Unidentified: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

President Tornatta: Sure.

Commissioner Korb: Then, Bill, if you would put it on your schedule to go out to inspect it on the Monday, the 14^th, get your pictures.

Bill Jeffers: Right.

Commissioner Nix: Then, at that time–

Bill Jeffers: I’ll be out of town from July 4^th to July 11^th. I can go out some time the weekend following the 11^th.

Commissioner Korb: Yeah.

Bill Jeffers: Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.

Commissioner Korb: Yeah, Monday is the 14^th, and our meeting is on the 15^th. So, I mean, enjoy your weekend, I don’t mean to screw that up, but, go out on the 14^th.

Bill Jeffers: Hey, I go down to Rural King all the time.

Commissioner Korb: There you go.

Bill Jeffers: It’s right there.

Commissioner Korb: Okay.

James Drake: Okay, my name is James Drake. I’m representing the property of 3205. I just found out about all this yesterday, so, I cleared that property as best I could.

Commissioner Korb: Okay.

James Drake: But, I have an abstract of my mother’s property here that shows that that’s an alley back there, 12 foot of that, and I believe that’s where that ditch lays there. I just don’t see how the property owners are responsible for that part. Just like the drainage pipe at the other end that you’re talking about. I would imagine that’s in that alley.

President Tornatta: Well, there would be a natural flow of water, and that just needs to be maintained.

James Drake: Yeah, I see that, but wouldn’t that be the county’s portion of that? I mean, there’s a four foot easement of ours at the back of that, but then there’s an alley, and that’s the county’s.

Bill Jeffers: I believe, and your legal counsel can correct me if I’m wrong, but until an alley is created, rocked and becomes a traveled way, the alley right-of-way itself remains property of the owner upon, in other words, it’s subject to that easement, but until there’s a traveled way there, it remains the property owners responsibility.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: That’s correct.

Bill Jeffers: Over and above that, this does meet the statutory definition of a mutual drain, in that it was created with the original owners knowledge and consent to be used as a drain. So, this statute still covers that, and it must be kept free flowing.

Commissioner Nix: Sir, did you say 3205?

James Drake: 3205.

Commissioner Nix: Okay, are there obstructions on 3205 right now?

James Drake: As soon as I found out about this, I picked up the certified letter yesterday after work–

Commissioner Nix: Okay, so, in your opinion, it’s open?

James Drakes: I’m fine. (Inaudible.)

Commissioner Nix: Okay. So, really, the culprit looks like, I guess, an inspection of 3105 and 30, Mr. Jeffers?

Bill Jeffers: That’s 3205, and you can see that it was, the clearing was initiated–

James Drake: That clearing would have been yesterday. I don’t know when that was taken.

Bill Jeffers: Oh, okay, wait, that’s where I made my mistake right there. Drake is up at, see the sunny spot? Well, then beyond him is–

Commissioner Nix: Is where it stops?

Bill Jeffers: –beyond the sunny spot is actually 3205.

Commissioner Nix: So, I guess, we’re down to just looking at 3105 and then whether or not something has happened at 3205? Is that where we’re at?

Bill Jeffers: Is that Mr. Schutte? What’s Mr. Schutte’s address?

President Tornatta: Mr. Schutte and Mrs.--

Bill Jeffers: Helmerich.

President Tornatta: –Helmerich.

Bill Jeffers: I think we’re down to Schutte and Helmerich.

President Tornatta: Schutte and Helmerich.

Bill Jeffers: Then, I’ll double check Drake, because, like I said, I wasn’t able to find all the–

Commissioner Nix: Yeah, Mr. Schutte just spoke–

President Tornatta: Right, right.

Commissioner Nix: –so, if you can look at that, and then 3209.

President Tornatta: And, probably what Mr. Schutte could do is call Mr. Jeffers, or just find out if you have a clarification on how much you have to clear just to make sure that is fine. Then, when he comes out, if he doesn’t see fit, then just get it done before Tuesday kind of thing, and we should be in great shape.

Bill Jeffers: I’ll definitely follow Mr. Korb’s direction to make my final inspection on Monday. I may go out there Friday, Saturday and talk to Mr. Schutte so that he has a clear understanding of, and I’m talking about the 12^th, 13^th, something like that.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: Make sure he has a clear understanding.

President Tornatta: Any other remonstrators that would like to speak? You’ve got to come up. Was that in the form of a motion?

Commissioner Korb: Indeed it was.

President Tornatta: We’ll have discussion.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Tornatta: Alright.

Jana Kirk: Jana Kirk again. My question is, a few years ago, 3105 was cleared out by Vectren. They came in and chopped down all the trees because of the lines, and they just went ahead and cleared the whole ditch, but it grows up again. So, when in fact this does get cleared, for the residents, if it starts growing up, how is that handled? I mean, because I’m not sure that 3105 will regularly keep that up. Is it similar to the city where, you know, if you let your grass grow up they can call somewhere and have it tagged? To keep it from becoming a problem, if it does get cleaned out, is there any legal thing that you can do? Or is it just going to be again another fight? Because I’m not sure once it gets cleaned out if it will be maintained.

President Tornatta: Well, one can have a petition against that particular individual, if that’s the case. It can come to this hearing. At that point we can assess if there’s a fault. If there is a fault, then, at that point we can address one of several ways to remedy the problem. One of which could be that we would go out there and clean it at their expense, and that would be put on their property taxes.

Jana Kirk: So, we would just be filing a petition with neighbors, like before and just not taken care of. So, it’s gonna probably be the same problem–

President Tornatta: Right.

Jana Kirk: –down the road. Okay.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Jana Kirk: Thank you.

President Tornatta: I only play an attorney on t.v. So, we have a motion and a second–

Commissioner Korb: Yes.

President Tornatta: –and, so ordered.

Bill Jeffers: Again, you know, in closing, I would just like to thank everyone that did take that effort, because, hey, listen, that particular week they were out there working, it was hot. It wasn’t cool like it’s been this week.

President Tornatta: Alright.

Unidentified: (Inaudible.)

President Tornatta: Yes. Yep, we’re done.

Commissioner Korb: But, we didn’t vote.

President Tornatta: It’s been ordered.

Bill Jeffers: Did you all, I’m sorry, did I interrupt your vote?

President Tornatta: No.

Commissioner Korb: You did, but that’s okay.

Bill Jeffers: Typical.

Commissioner Korb: Can we do it again?

Commissioner Nix: I second it.

Commissioner Korb: A motion has been made and seconded.

President Tornatta: And I so ordered. Move on to the next item.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, our last item for tonight, because I don’t have any claims for ditch contractors, our last item is Linda Phillips report, and a possible response. Basically, I went out there, this is where Paul Esche is asking for the removal of some material that was placed behind his house. Ms. Phillips had, on occasion, asked me to, where her property corners were, so, I went ahead and found them. Here’s a stake we placed at her northeast property corner.

Linda Phillips: Can I just say something, when he just said that? When did this all start? When did you and I have our first contact?

Bill Jeffers: I’ll get to that in a moment. This is her southeast corner. So, it shows you the property line, that I believe exists between her, on the right hand side of your screen, and Paul Esche and his wife, on the left hand side of your screen. Then, the next slide, you can see materials that were placed on Ms. Phillips property, by a contractor hired by Ms. Phillips, to supposedly improve the ditch bank. This area, and then you can see an area that I outlined with paint that shows that the weight of the fill that was placed on that ditch bank, unconsolidated, uncompacted fill, along with the weight of the rip rap that was placed on the bank, has caused this entire section of embankment to move into and across the property line. So, I mean, you can see the bow out in the, and, so, that’s my visual representation to you of the material that needs to be removed. As to Ms. Phillips question of when our first contact was, it was last September, in September of 2007 when her–

Linda Phillips: When did you mark the property, Mr. Jeffers?

Bill Jeffers: Uh.

Linda Phillips: Last week?

Bill Jeffers: This is not going to turn, I’m not going to let this turn into an interrogation of the County Surveyor.

Linda Phillips: I have a right to let them know.

President Tornatta: Ma’am, ma’am, if you’ll please let the Surveyor speak, and then we’ll have any comments you have.

Bill Jeffers: Mrs. Phillips’ sister came to our office and asked what could be done in this ditch to improve it, and I gave her a copy of the original drainage plan that was approved by the Drainage Board for Clear Creek Village, and said that if the ditch did not match the drainage plan that they could restore it to the condition...they could, number one, restore it to the condition as left by the developer and checked off by the County Engineer, or they could improve it to a standard that met the approved plan. In other words, a three to one side slope in dirt, with a grass cover. Anything beyond that would require a new plan to be brought to the Drainage Board, in accordance with the drainage code, and in accordance with the restrictions clearly printed on the plat for Clear Creek Village. On the, also, according to the covenants and restrictions on which the Phillips signed off on when they took title to the property, and those are all recorded in the Recorder’s office, that any modification to the ditch channel beyond the approved drainage plan originally approved for this subdivision, requires written permission from the Drainage Board, following the approval of a modified plan. So, I now say that this modification that took place was unauthorized. If they wish to place rip rap, or if they wish to create a slope that is steeper than three to one, and covered by anything other than grass, that requires a modified plan. So, then, I informed Ms. Phillips in telephone conversations and in two written letters to that effect. You have copies of those letters to that effect. You have copies of those letters, and you have confirmation of my telephone calls. I did receive a call from Bill Bivins yesterday afternoon. He’s a registered engineer and land surveyor, who said he was working with Ms. Phillips to bring a modified plan today. I don’t know if Mr. Bivins is here with that plan, but Ms. Phillips has responded positively to our notification and our request to appear before you. I will turn the podium over to her at this time.

President Tornatta: Thank you.

Linda Phillips: Hi, my name is Linda Phillips, and I own this property on Big Hill Drive. When I purchased this lot, the builder told me, he said, “I have to build it up some, because of the way the street is, Big Hill, for a reason, and the way that the land is shaped, I have to build it up.” Now, he didn’t tell me that until after I had already selected the property and we’re making all of the selections to build this home. When the house was finished, I asked him, I said, “Aren’t you going to do something about this backyard? I mean, it looks like a ski slope back there.” He said, “That’s your problem now. You bought the house, I don’t do anymore. This is the homeowners right.” I said, “Okay.” When I purchased the house, at the signing, they told me from the builder, this is what she said. I know I should have done differently, or looked at it differently, but, you know what, this is the first house I’ve ever built, and I took the people for their word. That’s what the man does, the whole subdivision. She told me, at the signing, that the ditch, halfway into it was mine. The other half was the people behind me. It was that way for the whole subdivision. I have two other family members that live out there, and they have said the same thing. So, I had no reason to doubt it. That was my understanding, halfway into the ditch was my property, the other half was the people behind me and we were all responsible for taking care of it. I moved in in November. The next summer, I went over and I knocked on Mr., I didn’t know his name, didn’t until Mr. Jeffers sent me the letters, went to Mr. Esche’s door, I introduced myself, told him I had bought the property behind you, I would love to do something with this ditch. It is so ugly. They told me at that time, we will not give you any money on it. I said,” I do not expect you to. I want this ditch fixed. It looks nasty.” They told me, they said, “Whatever you want to do, just don’t expect any money.” So, I said, “Okay”. It did take me a little bit, I had other things that I needed to do. So, in September, I hired a gentleman to come out and he was to put some dirt, I didn’t ask for that rock. When I questioned him about it, because he came and knocked on my door, because as soon as they started, Mr. Jeffers came out and put a stop note on his bobcat. Mr. Jeffers knocked on my door, that’s the first I knew of it. I hadn’t received a letter then, I just had Mr. Jeffers on my door telling me that I put a stop note on the bobcat and we need to check, you’re working on Mr. Esche’s property. I explained to him what I was told that half of that was mine, I’m just trying to clean it up, because, they like it that way, they said. So, anyway, I went ahead and they sent, Mr. Jeffers told me, you have to stop work. He told the contractor, you have to stop what you’re doing. I said, “Okay”. He said I’m on their property. I stopped. I did not let the man go any further. This is my brother.

Steve Hadley: My name is Steve Hadley. I’m her brother. As far as what he was saying, where it’s eroded and it’s low there, that’s because the job was stopped. The same reason the pile of bricks back there–

Linda Phillips: That’s where the man dumped them.

Steve Hadley: –that’s where they came out and they tagged his truck that day–

Linda Phillips: See, where do you do it at?

Steve Hadley: –to stop work.

Linda Phillips: I don’t know where you hit it at to show it. But, he dumped the dirt and the rock at the top, by the white truck. I don’t know who’s white truck that is. I don’t know who that man is. But, he dumped it there, and whenever they told him to stop the work, that’s how, the man took my money, his bobcat, and this is what I was left with.

Commissioner Nix: So, what you’re saying is, what’s there right now is exactly when the project was stopped?

Linda Phillips: Well, then, yes. Now, I’ve taken pictures because I talked to, and I don’t have anyway of getting them up there, but I talked to Mr. Jeffers on countless occasions, and the last time I talked to him, he finally told me, “Don’t call me again. You call one of the boards if you have anything else to say. I’m done with you.” Okay, that’s why, I was shocked when he told me. You did.

President Tornatta: Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Linda Phillips: You did not tell me not to call you back?

President Tornatta: Hold on, Ma’am. Ma’am? Linda, we’re not getting into that here.

Linda Phillips: Well, but–

President Tornatta: No one’s saying that you did anything. We’re listening to both sides, but we won’t have banter back and forth.

Linda Phillips: I just, I’m shocked at what he said.

President Tornatta: Can we see the pictures?

Linda Phillips: Sure. This is the back of the house. This is what they, if he got a hold of me last year, why did he just come up this past week and sign and put those out? I asked him, he told me I had to call a legal surveyor. He never one time offered to mark that property for me. It cost me $600 to have a surveyor come out and show my property. This is what we did. This is the property line, this is the easement line. We got out and pulled all that out. The man, the contractor laid five bundles of straw there. We took them away. Yeah, there’s extra straw laying there, but whenever I got out there to work on it, they called Mr. Jeffers again, and I found out today they’ve been calling him everyday for I don’t know how long–

Unidentified: That’s what the problem is.

Linda Phillips: –driving him crazy. He says I’m getting rid of this problem one time or the other. That’s not, shouldn’t be my fault because they are hard to get along with. That’s the land. That is the easement right there.

Commissioner Nix: I’ve been down there.

Linda Phillips: Okay. Good. Do you live out there?

Commissioner Nix: No, I don’t live there.

Linda Phillips: It’s nasty, isn’t it?

Commissioner Nix: I got a call to go look at it.

Linda Phillips: That’s his grass. That’s his grass. He got out there with me last week and helped me clean it up. I know it, it’s just, this is how it lays. This is what lays on their property. I just found out–

President Tornatta: Hold on, hold on.

Linda Phillips: Mr. Jeffers came out and–

President Tornatta: Hold on, if you would go to the microphone and we’ll catch all this.

Linda Phillips: Mr. Jeffers came out , the very first time, and knocked on my door, and he told me, he said, “That looks like it’s Mr. Esche’s property.”

Commissioner Nix: Can we go back to the first slide, where the property lines, the strings and stakes there? You can see it.

Linda Phillips: But, see, that was, we got out there and moved that rock. The thing of it is, whenever the contractor came out, he was moving the dirt and he put some of the rock down there. He left it that way because Mr. Jeffers put a stop work sign on that bobcat. This was all supposed to be smoothed out where I could mow the grass. I tipped my rider lawn mower over three times. It a wonder I haven’t broke a leg. That’s all I wanted to do. They like it that way? That’s a crock. I’ve got green water sitting in that ditch, which is on their property, but he’s saying that all that’s his property. It’s not, it’s mine, but I don’t understand why the County Surveyor can wait a year to come out and tag properties.

Commissioner Nix: In looking at this, and I was out there about, probably about a month ago, what’s happened there, and the reason why you’re getting that is because you’ve changed the flow line, because all of that dirt is sloughing off into the ditch.

Linda Phillips: No, it’s the way the–

Commissioner Nix: Yes, it is.

Linda Phillips: –man left it. Whenever–

Commissioner Nix: No, no. Well, if it’s–

Linda Phillips: –now it’s like that, the day the man brought the dirt in.

Commissioner Nix: –the way the man left it, I’m just saying that, I don’t know how many, you had probably 50 or 60 loads of dirt hauled in there?

Linda Phillips: Oh, no we did not.

Commissioner Nix: Now–

Linda Phillips: I wished I could afford 50 loads.

Commissioner Nix: –you said it sloped like a ski slope, and your backyard goes up, it’s fairly flat to the fence, and then it takes off from that point down.

Linda Phillips: No, it slopes from the back of my house. There is a constant slope from the back of my house down.

Commissioner Nix: But, I guess, the point I’m trying to make is, part of the reason why you’re getting that against the inlet there is because that whole hillside is sloughing off into the drainage ditch. That’s exactly what’s happening.

Linda Phillips: There is matting, there was thick matting underneath there, and I told him, I said, “I don’t want that rip rap in there.” He told me he had to do that, and then he would cover it with dirt. The only reason he was doing it was to keep the dirt from washing away.

Commissioner Nix: Yeah, if that would have been put in properly, you wouldn’t have needed to use that rip rap.

Linda Phillips: But, it looked like that the day they put the stop order in. They didn’t let the man even finish the job. They come out and stopped him right where he was. It would be like you trying to get halfway dressed to go to work, and then somebody come in and say, stop, and then you’ve got to work just the halfway dressed you are. Then you’re saying, but this isn’t how I normally look.

President Tornatta: Ms. Phillips, I think what has happened is there’s a process to do that, and it’s to get permits to get that to go through. Those permits are done so that it’s done right.

Linda Phillips: Nobody ever, ever, I talked to the builder, asked him about it. I’ve talked to Mr. Jeffers, and he did tell me I had to have a permit, but I had already started on it. I didn’t know that.

President Tornatta: Mrs. Phillips, and I understand, but if somebody is doing excess of speed limit on a road, and they can say they didn’t know the speed limit, they still get a ticket. What I’m saying is, I understand wholeheartedly that you probably did not understand the rules of the county and the codes of the county. Ignorance of the law is not admissible in court. You cannot claim that you were ignorant of the law and they’re okay with that, unfortunately. So, at this time, if you have something against a builder, if you have something against a worker that came in to do something on the property, then that would be a civil legal matter.

Linda Phillips: You know what, I just, I go to work, I’m 60 years old, I work 12 hours a day in a factory. I go to work and I come home, and I stay inside my house, other than to cut my grass and try to keep my yard neat. All I get is harassment. I don’t understand why. I tried to deal with Mr. Jeffers, and I tried to explain my side of it. I don’t know what the Esche’s problem are, I went back over after Mr. Jeffers came the first time, and I asked them, I said, “Can we not do something with it?” I’m not paying any money on it. I like it the way it is. Well, I don’t like it the way it is. It looks like trash lives there, and these homes are, to me, halfway decent homes. I don’t–

Commissioner Nix: They are nice homes, Ma’am.

President Tornatta: Yes.

Linda Phillips: Well, and the thing I don’t understand is, how you can let somebody do this, when I asked them for permission to work on it, and they told me as long as they didn’t have to put money on it, they didn’t care what I did. Then, when I get out there, now I’m getting all this backflow of you should, you should, you should. I don’t understand it, just because they want to call and complain. They won’t complain to me. They don’t say anything to me. I asked him, I said, “Why did you not come over to me and say I don’t like what you’re doing with it?” Because, like I said, that was supposed to be covered up. It was never supposed to have any rock on there anyway. The way it was explained to me is it was to keep the dirt from washing away. But, the thing of it is–

President Tornatta: Who contracted that out?

Linda Phillips: What his name?

President Tornatta: No, no. Who contracted it?

Linda Phillips: What do you mean?

President Tornatta: Who paid for it?

Linda Phillips: I did.

President Tornatta: See, that’s our problem.

Linda Phillips: Yeah, no, it’s my problem, because I’m out of money.

President Tornatta: I understand, I understand, but there’s nowhere we can go. I’m just telling you. It’s not that we don’t want to help. There’s not a place to help you, because you contracted that out. And it was done–

Linda Phillips: It had to be fixed.

President Tornatta: –hold on, hold on. It was done without a permit.

Linda Phillips: I didn’t know I had to have a permit.

President Tornatta: And, it was done against drainage code.

Linda Phillips: Okay, the guy that I went to yesterday told me that it’s three to one everywhere back there, except this pile at the beginning, and that is the only place that is not three to one. He told me that as long as I removed that, then I’m fine.

President Tornatta: Okay, now I’m not saying that we don’t have a remedy for this.

Linda Phillips: What are you guys doing Saturday? Everybody want to come over and help me move rock?

President Tornatta: Yeah, well, I can tell you what I’m not doing Saturday.

Linda Phillips: Aw, come on. Where’s your neighborly spirit?

Commissioner Nix: We would have to notice the media, Ma’am.

President Tornatta: Yeah, that’s right. We’d all be at a meeting.

Commissioner Nix: What would that look like?

Linda Phillips: It would look like–

Commissioner Korb: It would look like a campaign thing to me. I think that would work out great. Let’s go.

Linda Phillips: It would look neighborly.

President Tornatta: Okay, Mr. Jeffers?

Commissioner Nix: Bill, let me ask you a question.

President Tornatta: Yes, can we have Mr. Jeffers up here please? If that’s okay.

Commissioner Nix: You and I looked at this some time back....very good. You and I looked at this some time back, is there a way that this rip rap could be pulled back away and we would re-contour that, or they would re-contour the side and get some grass mat down, and reshape that, and maybe put some straw under to get it planted? I mean, it would be a, is there enough room to do that between there and the fence at the top of the slope?

Bill Jeffers: Yes.

Commissioner Nix: So, Ma’am, that would be a real, and I know, I know we’re talking about a little bit of money, but that would remedy this problem. That’s what I saw when I was there that day.

Linda Phillips: Alright, let me ask you, I have got, I’m telling you, this has drove me out of my mind.

Commissioner Nix: I understand. I understand.

Commissioner Korb: You don’t look crazy.

Linda Phillips: Huh?

Commissioner Korb: You don’t look crazy.

Linda Phillips: Well, let me tell you what, you have no idea–

President Tornatta: Could you please step up to the mic?

Commissioner Nix: Step up to the mic please.

Linda Phillips: I asked, he knocks on my door, I’m in the shower, I put my housecoat on, and I go to the back of the yard–

Commissioner Korb: That’s too much information.

Linda Phillips: –to look at this. I don’t even, nah, okay, and this is when this starts, in September. So, we’re almost to September again. I have told him, and I’ve told him, I cannot afford to pay $600 to have my land surveyed. He comes out last week and marks it, and I didn’t even know it. Didn’t send me a, where’s he been all year? I had already, and I hired a man–

President Tornatta: Hold on. I understand. You said that once before, but it’s not his position to do private surveying.

Bill Jeffers: I had a change of heart, period.

Linda Phillips: I didn’t even know you had one. I thought that was a –

Commissioner Nix: I knew that was coming.

Linda Phillips: I’m sorry. You did, didn’t you?

Bill Jeffers: I’m the straight man.

Commissioner Korb: Can we just go ahead, is it possible for us to do what Commissioner Nix is asking to do? We can fix this thing and then you don’t have to worry about it anymore?

Linda Phillips: Okay, they have to get that mess cleaned up though, right? They can’t leave that like that, can they?

Commissioner Korb: They who? Being the Esche’s?

Linda Phillips: The Esche’s.

President Tornatta: Well–

Linda Phillips: Did you see the water in those pictures? It’s green.

Bill Jeffers: I would recommend asking Paul Esche if he would mind if some of the rip rap, not all of it, some small amount of the rip rap were moved onto his property, from the entrance of the pipe, back up, to fill in the scoured out flow line of that ditch. Then, the rest of the rip rap be removed from the bank, because all it’s done is add weight to the unconsolidated fill.

Commissioner Nix: Can we do, can we do this?

Bill Jeffers: That was in the e-mail I sent today.

Linda Phillips: (Inaudible). This is where we did it. There is the land, the easement, we went in. Can you see where we’ve moved? Now, we didn’t move it up here, because we just didn’t have time.

Commissioner Nix: There’s a picture–

Linda Phillips: But, this has been moved.

Commissioner Nix: There’s a picture that shows–

Linda Phillips: See it? Look.

Commissioner Nix: –the upstream.

Linda Phillips: The pile at the top is what that Mr. Bivins told me today–

Commissioner Nix: Oh, you just got–

Brenda Jeffers: Is that it?

Commissioner Nix: No, that’s downstream. Upstream.

Brenda Jeffers: Right there?

Commissioner Nix: No.

Bill Jeffers: No, the last one, or the first one, I guess.

Brenda Jeffers: Oh, well, that’s the wrong one.

Commissioner Nix: Is there just two pictures here?

Brenda Jeffers: There’s three.

Commissioner Nix: Okay.

Brenda Jeffers: This one?

Commissioner Nix: You can’t see it, but just beyond your property line, up the way, that was the original intent and original design.

Bill Jeffers: Right, I apologize. I do have some pictures in the folder.

Commissioner Nix: If you’ll look–

Bill Jeffers: But, I didn’t include it in the slide show, but if you look uphill, as Mr. Nix is indicating, uphill of Mrs. Phillips’ property, on the adjoining properties on up the hill, the swale is very slight, very, I mean, you can mow right across it, and everyone does mow right across it. Here’s a picture of it here.

Commissioner Nix: There we go. That’s it.

Bill Jeffers: And, what Mr.--

Linda Phillips: (Inaudible).

Commissioner Nix: Well, you can’t now, because the grade is too steep.

Bill Jeffers: And the reason she cannot do that, is because–

Linda Phillips: I couldn’t do that to begin with.

Bill Jeffers: –she brought in somewhere between 15 and 25 loads of dirt and put it in her backyard, and she told me that she brought that much dirt in here. Not 50 loads, but about –

Linda Phillips: Neighbor at southeast corner of Big Hill and Gish has brought in two truckloads of dirt and filled in drainage ditch and culvert at the road.

Bill Jeffers: That was the most recent complaint that this last....just what you see there is the two truckloads.

Linda Phillips: Don’t those people work? It looks like they would go out (Inaudible).

Bill Jeffers: It was brought in according to Mrs. Phillips statement–

President Tornatta: Hold on.

Bill Jeffers: –to smooth out and finish off the work.

President Tornatta: Recommendation?

Linda Phillips: All I wanted to do–

Bill Jeffers: But, uh, there’s been a lot of things said–

Linda Phillips: –was cut my grass.

Bill Jeffers: –here tonight. I don’t want to go into it, but one thing that was told me by Mrs. Phillips, she brought in between 15 and 20 loads of dirt.

Linda Phillips: I brought in loads–

Commissioner Korb: Don’t care. Let’s just fix it.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Linda Phillips: I put–

Commissioner Nix: Mrs. Phillips, would you be agreeable to pull the rip rap back, and re-contour that to an acceptable grade? And then, we just need to get some matting–

Linda Phillips: I pulled it back from there.

Commissioner Nix: –or something down?

Linda Phillips: It’s not like that. The picture that I showed you was taken two days ago. We went and had them super–

Commissioner Nix: My concern is, this is going to keep sloughing off.

Linda Phillips: If you had let the man finish the job, it wouldn’t have.

President Tornatta: I know, right, but we talked about that.

Linda Phillips: I’m serious.

President Tornatta: We talked about that. You have to have a permit to do that.

Linda Phillips: Okay, that’s fine. I know that now.

President Tornatta: That’s part of it.

Linda Phillips: By golly, I’ll make sure I do.

President Tornatta: Right.

Commissioner Nix: But, if this is re-graded, and this rip rap is actually hindering the problem, it’s not helping it.

Linda Phillips: It’s what?

Commissioner Nix: The rip rap is actually hurting this and not helping it. It’s adding weight to the dirt, and the dirt’s sloughing off. It’s not, correct me if I’m wrong, Mr. Jeffers. If it was placed properly.

Steve Hadley: I’ve got a question here.

Commissioner Nix: Yes, sir.

Steve Hadley: She’s at the bottom of the hill, correct?

Commissioner Nix: Yes.

Steve Hadley: And there’s probably 20 houses all the way up this hill, and water, whenever it rains, it rains hard, everybody, all the rain does not go to the ditch.

Linda Phillips: No.

Steve Hadley: It runs down their yards, I’ve been standing at her house and her neighbor has a privacy fence and I can watch water come down under that privacy fence to her backyard and runs down her yard. So, she’s getting water from every direction.

Linda Phillips: There would be big (Inaudible) of dirt–

Commissioner Nix: The problem with living at the end of a hill.

Steve Hadley: Here, this is what got started, where the rock were, there was two and three feet ruts back there deep, where all that water was washing it down towards the ditch.

Linda Phillips: And, I was trying to mow it, and I kept turning the lawnmower over, and the Esche’s neighbor kept coming over and pulling me out, and I thought I’ve got to do something. So, like I said, God knows I know it now, but I didn’t then, that I had to have a permit to do something with my own backyard. Like I said, that is not the condition of the yard now. The condition is what you saw in the pictures, and it’s been moved. There’s the easement, and there’s my property line. They’re marked, and they will stay marked forever.

Steve Hadley: The whole problem here is that her neighbors behind her do not like the rip rap, the rock back there.

Linda Phillips: That’s what they said.

Steve Hadley: It’s an eyesore. That’s why they keep calling in everyday. They want the rock moved.

Linda Phillips: That’s it. They said it. We want the rock moved.

President Tornatta: Mr. Jeffers? I would like just a quick idea from you, if we haven’t seen it, and, you know, if this picture doesn’t comport to what you’re talking about, to possibly give her a remedy. Then, if we can check with the Esche’s to see, make sure their complaint is being addressed, and, at that time we can come back and, or we can give her a remedy.

Linda Phillips: I want to tell you something, I had to take off work–

President Tornatta: It’s up to this board.

Linda Phillips: –at time and a half to come here tonight. I have lost money to the contractor, I have lost $600 to pay a man to do a job that he could have done and didn’t do until the day before I had already called the man and paid him to do the other job. Do you see what I’m going through? This isn’t fair to me at all.

President Tornatta: I see what you’re saying, but you didn’t go by the rules of the county, and that Surveyor, that Surveyor is not, he’s not, that’s not his job to come out and do what a surveyor’s work would be on a private sector.

Linda Phillips: But he dit it. So, it shows he could have done it. All that (Inaudible. Talking over each other.)

President Tornatta: That’s not his place.

Linda Phillips: (Inaudible. Talking over each other.)

President Tornatta: No, it’s not. That’s not his place.

Bill Jeffers: I will try to answer your question briefly, but I want to call your attention to my first statement that a representative of Ms. Phillips, Mrs. Phillips, her sister who lives in the same house, came to our office and asked what could be done with the ditch before they initiated it. I told them exactly what could be done with the ditch without a permit, without a new plan. They could have restored the original, you know, configuration, or they could have improved it to exactly what the plan, approved plan, showed. Anything other than that requires a new plan.

Linda Phillips: (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

President Tornatta: Hold on.

Bill Jeffers: She knows it, because I gave the plans to her sister to take home to her. If they want to leave the rip rap, which Mrs. Phillips says her intent for the rip rap was so that she would not have to mow the embankment. That’s what she told me. If she wants rip rap there–

Linda Phillips: I don’t want rip rap.

Bill Jeffers: –she must submit–

President Tornatta: Ms. Phillips? Please.

Bill Jeffers: –if she doesn’t, now, if she doesn’t want the rip rap, then it must be removed.

Linda Phillips: I never wanted it.

Bill Jeffers: If she wants the rip rap, which she told me she did to cover up the grass so she wouldn’t have to mow it–

Linda Phillips: I did not. That’s not true.

President Tornatta: Hold on. Ms. Phillips?

Bill Jeffers: –that requires a new plan. If she doesn’t want the rip rap, lay the dirt back to three to one slopes, establish grass, we’re done.

Linda Phillips: It’s three to one slope now, except for the top up there where the man dropped the (Inaudible).

Bill Jeffers: Remove the rip rap, restore the–

Linda Phillips: Why? Because the Esche’s don’t like it?

President Tornatta: I’m going to call this–

Bill Jeffers: Because the rip rap requires a new plan.

Linda Phillips: It’s not fair. Why, just because the Esche’s don’t like it?

President Tornatta: Ms. Phillips, we have asked you time and time again to let the Surveyor speak. If you’re going to speak while he’s speaking, we are done here.

Linda Phillips: Okay, let me ask you this, I have tried to talk to him since last September. He has been nothing but evasive with me. He has told me don’t call me again. What type of, how does that, what would you feel like if they call, if he told you that on the phone when you’re trying to figure out what you can do? I do not have the money to keep doing this, just because the Esche’s don’t like rip rap. I didn’t order that. I didn’t ask for it. I didn’t even know it was there until it was done in my yard. I don’t know what everybody wants me to do.

President Tornatta: Understand, and that is a civil matter that you take up with the guy that you contracted. That does not have anything to do with what we’re doing here. So, I’m going to ask--

Linda Phillips: They told me–

President Tornatta: –excuse me, excuse me. I’m going to ask this Board to come up with a conclusion, and we’re moving on.

Linda Phillips: We can move on, and I’m not done, but you can do that.

President Tornatta: We’ve heard enough.

Commissioner Nix: I guess, just from a legal standpoint–

Linda Phillips: You haven’t heard it all.

Commissioner Nix: –we make a recommendation, is that binding? As far as what this Board, a recommendation like this?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Are we treating this as an obstruction?

Linda Phillips: It’s not.

Bill Jeffers: This is a violation of the drainage code in that work was done that does not conform to the approved plan, and without an approved modified plan to modify a drainage ditch that exists in an easement, a platted easement. In other words, the code says you must have a plan.

Linda Phillips: I had a plan.

Commissioner Nix: Ma’am?

Linda Phillips: I have a plan.

Commissioner Nix: Ma’am?

Bill Jeffers: You must have written permission from the Drainage Board.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I’m going to have to look, Bill, I don’t know what the remedy is for–

Bill Jeffers: Okay.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: –a violation of that particular ordinance.

President Tornatta: Well, we have on the books, we have on the books that there was supposed to be a plan presented to this Commission.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Right.

President Tornatta: And, I’ve yet to see a plan.

Linda Phillips: The gentleman today that I paid $600 to, oh, I know, go to the microphone. The gentleman told me today, that yard is three to one everywhere except the top, where the dirt and that rock is, and that is where the gentleman initially, the contractor dumped the rock and the dirt. He said everywhere but there is three to one. I’m meeting code.

President Tornatta: Okay. So–

Bill Jeffers: And I disagree.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Linda Phillips: Well–

President Tornatta: It’s going to fall on the Surveyor’s recommendation for this Board. So, I guess–

Bill Jeffers: And, I’ll be happy to make a recommendation at this point.

Commissioner Nix: I would like to hear that recommendation.

Bill Jeffers: I recommend that the rip rap be removed from the embankment, that the embankment be re-established at a constant and smooth three to one, from the bottom, from her property line thence west to her fence line.

Commissioner Nix: And that would make it a whole lot easier to mow too. Excuse me.

Bill Jeffers: That’s at a minimum. If she wants it flatter than that, that’s fine. That it be re-vegetated with grass, to a lawn condition, and whatever it takes to accomplish that.

President Tornatta: And, the letter was sent out, in summary:

“It’s the County Surveyor’s understanding that the Drainage Board expects you to present a plan on July 1, 2008. Thereafter to demonstrate verifiable actions toward accomplishing the plan within the 30 days in July 2008, immediately following your presentation of the plan to the Board on the 1^st day of that month.”

That was sent out.

Linda Phillips: Here’s the gentleman I talked to today.

President Tornatta: I’ll take a recommendation from this Board.

Commissioner Nix: Once again, this is somewhat of a unique situation, to actually move on something without, I guess, I’m looking to legal counsel for–

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I hate to ask her to miss work again. I would like an opportunity to research this and advise the Board at its next meeting. You wouldn’t have to be here.

Linda Phillips: I wouldn’t dare miss it. I’m scared.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Well, and that’s up to you. I’m going to research what the Board can do in this situation, given that you did not obtain a permit, and that you improperly applied fill and rip rap, contrary to the ordinance.

Linda Phillips: So, I’m going to go through the subdivision and everybody that has brought fill in there to do their lawn, we’re going to come down and go through all of this with everybody in that subdivision? Everybody out there has brought dirt in. So, that’s what I do? I bring action against everybody in that subdivision that has brought dirt in? Is that what you’re telling me I can do?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I’m not, I don’t know about the other people in the subdivision. I’m saying that we’re going to respond to what the Surveyor has alleged relative to your property and this drain. I don’t know, sitting here today, exactly what the remedy is, but I will know on July the 15^th.

Linda Phillips: Well, I have surgery in Nashville, Tennessee on July the 28^th, and I can document it, show it to you, whatever, and I am not going to be doing anything for four solid months. So, whatever you need done, please tell me. I don’t know what you, you know, I don’t know what you want.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Certainly you can do this. The Surveyor has recommended that you–

Linda Phillips: He won’t talk to me.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: He is talking to all of us here today. He has recommended that you remove the rip rap, and using fill replace it to the three to one, is that right?

Linda Phillips: But, if it’s three to one now.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: But, the rip rap is there, and, if you are talking about doing something before your surgery, and I’m sorry that are you are going to have to have surgery, that’s what you could do, and that would solve the problem. What the Board is asking me to do as the County Attorney, is to advise them what they can compel you to do.

Linda Phillips: Well, this is what I compel you to do, you act like it’s your home, and you’re 60 years old and you’re working 12 hours a day, and somebody that is behind you, for some unknown reason, I don’t even know those people. I went twice and I asked him, “Can we do something with that?”, and they told me, yes, as long as they were not out money. Then, they come back and they start calling him. Now, because they’ve chose to call him everyday and harass him, he’s wanting to get rid of the situation, I’m going to be on the losing end. I don’t understand.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Yeah, is Mr. Esche here?

Linda Phillips: No, he didn’t show up. He’d rather aggravate me and him. He’s not going to show up. See, that’s how worried he is about it. I don’t understand. I do not understand. All I’m trying to do is get the yard to look nice.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Linda Phillips: That’s all I want.

President Tornatta: We are going to, we can continue, table this, and continue on the 15^th. It’s the recommendation of the Surveyor, at this time, that if you remove that rip rap and start to make that slope three to one–

Linda Phillips: How am I supposed to move it? Just pick it up? Where am I gonna take it to?

President Tornatta: I don’t know how it got there, but how it got there, I would remove it the same way.

Linda Phillips: Well, I’ll call that man back.

President Tornatta: I would recommend that we do this. Do we have a motion?

Commissioner Nix: Motion to table.

Commissioner Korb: Second.

President Tornatta: So ordered. Motion to adjourn?

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

Linda Phillips: That’s okay. What goes around comes around.

Commissioner Nix: No, wait, is Mr. Jeffers here? Any other issues?

Bill Jeffers: If I could just have sixty seconds to myself?

President Tornatta: Yes.

Bill Jeffers: Punch that stopwatch. What actually occurred, and I feel that since it’s been broadcast on public t.v., I must say–

Linda Phillips: I didn’t know we were on t.v. Why are we on t.v.? I didn’t (Inaudible. Talking over each other.)

Bill Jeffers: If I could have sixty seconds to myself to at least offer the explanation, that you can imagine how circuitous the conversation got over an hour and a half with Ms. Phillips on the telephone.

Linda Phillips: I have never (Inaudible. Talking over each other.)

Bill Jeffers: On more than one occasion. Being asked all kinds of questions that I explained to her had, that I had absolutely no jurisdiction over, outside of that easement. There’s a 15 foot easement that I wanted to concentrate on. I tried to explain, and I wrote two lengthy and very succinct letters, both of which you have copies of, and you can ask your attorney if there’s any corrections that need to be made to that. Ten seconds. At the end of one of the very circuitous and long conversations that was just repeated over and over and over, like a broken record, I said, “If you have any more questions about the veracity of what I am telling you, or such things, I advise you to call the Drainage Board, either singularly or come to the meeting and talk to them together to check on the truthfulness of anything I’ve told you.” I never said that I would never speak to her again.

Linda Phillips: You said don’t call me again.

Bill Jeffers: Then I had a change of heart and went out and found her survey corners, okay? Because I didn’t want her to have to spend $150 an hour to do so.

Linda Phillips: Okay, I get sixty seconds now. First of all, I didn’t know this was being televised. I’ve not signed anything stating that it’s okay with me to be on there. I didn’t think you could do that.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: All public meetings of the Vanderburgh County Drainage Board and Commissioners are televised.

Linda Phillips: Well, I did not know that. Nobody told me that. See, I am so left out. Okay, the thing of it is, why did he have such a change of heart after a year? Do you understand what I’m saying?

Commissioner Korb: Because he heard you were having surgery.

Linda Phillips: No, he didn’t. I just told you that.

Commissioner Korb: No, I’m sorry.

Linda Phillips: I can be just as cocky as he can. The thing of it is, I’m trying to tell you is, I didn’t know, and God cut off my wrists because I didn’t. I’m sorry. If, Mr. Nix seems to think that it can be fixed without me having to take it out, that’s what I understood awhile ago, you to say that you felt like there was a way around it. Is that not what you said?

Commissioner Nix: I said that, basically, what Mr. Jeffers, I guess, concurred with, is that if you remove the rip rap and get it back to three to one and get some vegetation, good grass growing on it.

Linda Phillips: Who’s going to cut that mess?

Commissioner Nix: Ma’am, that’s–

Linda Phillips: I wanted to put mulch. I did not want any grass. I don’t want anything growing back there. So, if I want to plant a shrub, or anything, ground cover, I can’t do anything back there at all?

President Tornatta: Mrs. Phillips, I’m going to call this meeting to adjourn. I would like a motion to adjourn, please.

Linda Phillips: I’m not done. I want to ask you these questions.

President Tornatta: Ms. Phillips, we’ve went over this for the last 45 minutes.

Linda Phillips: I can’t plant (Inaudible)?

President Tornatta: We have told you what the remedy is. If you do not choose to do that remedy, then I don’t know what else we can do.

Linda Phillips: Explain to me why it has to be your way? That’s my house. Why is everybody here allowed to tell me what I can do with the property that I pay taxes on?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Mrs. Phillips, the only thing they can tell you is that the legal drain has to be left to drain–

Linda Phillips: The drain is on his house.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: –unimpeded.

Linda Phillips: The drain is on his property, not mine. It’s not on my property. That’s what I’m telling you. The drain is on that other man’s property. It’s not on my property. My property has nothing to do with the drain. I’m not blocking it. It sits just like it did when I bought the house. It’s on his....even Mr. Jeffers came out, the first time, and showed me. That is on Mr. Esche’s property. It is not on yours. That’s been common knowledge from the first day I talked to Mr. Jeffers. That’s what I’m saying. I’m not blocking it. What difference does it make? Please explain to me. Mr. Esche wants me, they, at his suggestion, for me to put a pipe in, put all that rip rap down over that pipe, why should I do that to that man’s property? It’s his property, not mine. They’re wanting me to fix up his property.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Well, doesn’t, are we not impeding the drainage–

Linda Phillips: No.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: –by what Mrs. Phillips has done?

Bill Jeffers: We still haven’t addressed the three or four bales of straw that was left in the ditch from September until last month, and we don’t even know....Bill Bivins said he was going to probe out the pipe and see if any of that straw was stuck in the pipe. That’s what brought Paul Esche in here in the first place, was that all that straw washed into the face of the pipe and flooded his backyard.

Linda Phillips: (Inaudible).

Bill Jeffers: I asked her back in September to remove the straw.

Linda Phillips: Did you see (Inaudible)?

Bill Jeffers: To remove the straw from the ditch.

Linda Phillips: It was (Inaudible), and I’m 60 years old. I’m in bad health.

President Tornatta: Excuse me, excuse me.

Linda Phillips: I can’t (Inaudible).

President Tornatta: Ms. Phillips? That’s enough.

Bill Jeffers: But, my point has been from the very beginning that clearly printed on the plat, and in the covenants and restrictions, which every property owner in this subdivision signed on to when they took title to their property, they signed a document at the lending institution saying they agreed to the covenants and restrictions, and one of them is you do not make modifications to the, within the drainage easement, and we’re looking at the drainage easement, everything 15 feet on her side of the lot, the first 15 feet up to, almost up to that fence, is in a drainage easement. No modifications without written approval from the Drainage Board. Pure and simple, and these modifications have caused a partial obstruction of the waterway, and the potential for a monumental obstruction should it continue to slump off. As you can clearly see, it’s slumping off, off the top of the fabric and down into the ditch.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Okay, and, Mrs. Phillips, that is what establishes what this Board is looking at relative to the drainage, even though it is on Mr. Esche’s property.

Linda Phillips: But, I’m not doing anything to that easement.

Steve Hadley: May I show you one picture, please?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Sure.

Linda Phillips: Look at that. Go ahead.

Steve Hadley: We’re talking about straw that gets down there. That’s at the top of the hill. There’s straw all the way across up through here. (Inaudible. Comments made away from the microphone.)

Madelyn Grayson: Can you turn your microphone on, Ted, so we can pick up his comments?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Yeah.

Steve Hadley: So, if there’s straw in a ditch, it could be anybody’s.

Commissioner Nix: The straw I saw were bales of straw that looked like they were pinned in front of the–

Linda Phillips: We had people that decorated out there for Halloween with big bales of straw and scarecrows and everything else. I don’t, I mean, I did take my bales of straw, and it was bundled up. It was not loose straw. I don’t know what the people in the neighborhood have done with all of their straw when they decorated for Halloween. They do that in September, and that’s what we’re talking about. Do you, I wish you knew the frustration that I feel, because I am stuck just because these people want to aggravate the tar out of him. I don’t....so, when are you going to tell me what I have to do, so that I know, so that I can get this taken care of, before I have a stroke?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: It’s been suggested, and you indicate you don’t want to do this, that if you remove the rip rap, and re-establish the three, and I understand that somebody’s told you that it is three to one, but–

Linda Phillips: Well, I paid the man $600 for it.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Well, then that may be his problem. Make him come back and do it right. But, if you remove the rip rap, and re-establish the three to one slope, the problem is solved.

Linda Phillips: So, what am I supposed to make it three to one with?

Commissioner Korb: My understanding is though, that it’s already three to one.

Linda Phillips: It is three to one. That’s what I’m telling you.

Commissioner Nix: But, it’s not. You can see how it’s humped up, and then it takes off. It’s not a gradual, it’s not a solid three to one at all.

Linda Phillips: It’s because the work was stopped. That’s what I’m trying to tell you.

Commissioner Nix: I understand.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Or, if the workman can come back and establish three to one.

Linda Phillips: He told him to leave and not come back.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Well, now we’re telling you to get it finished. Is that correct?

Linda Phillips: Anybody want to buy a house? I got a good one for ya. Good neighbors. Great neighbors. Wonderful County Council that does everything they can to help out.

Commissioner Korb: I’m assuming moving the rock is an issue for you?

Linda Phillips: I’m 60 years old. I have health problems. No, I’m not looking forward to getting out there one by one and picking that up. I don’t have a vehicle to move it. He has heart problems, he has heart problems. They were coming with me tonight just to help me out.

Commissioner Korb: Okay.

Linda Phillips: I don’t have anybody. My son lives in California.

Commissioner Korb: That’s why I--

Linda Phillips: That stupid husband of mine had the nerve to actually die and leave me in this mess by myself. I just can’t believe the nerve. I don’t what you people want out of me. Somebody please tell me what you want.

Commissioner Korb: If we can help move the rock, can you get your contractor out there?

Linda Phillips: I don’t know.

President Tornatta: We can’t move the rock.

Commissioner Korb: Okay. Then, I move for adjournment.

Linda Phillips: You guys go home with your family and have a good night.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

Linda Phillips: I hope you get a neighbor like mine real soon.

(The meeting was adjourned at 7:25 p.m.)

Those in Attendance:

Troy Tornatta                            Bill Nix                                      Jeff Korb

Bill Jeffers                                 Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.          Madelyn Grayson

Jerry Arnett                               Jana Kirk                                  Joe Schutte

James Drake                            Linda Phillips                            Steve Hadley

Brenda Jeffers                          Others Unidentified                   Members of Media

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

Troy Tornatta, President

Bill Nix, Vice President

Jeff Korb, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)