VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

FEBRUARY 27, 2007

The Vanderburgh County Drainage Board met in session this 27^th day of February, 2007 at 3:54 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with President Bill Nix presiding.

President Nix: Good afternoon. I would like to call to order the Vanderburgh County Drainage Board meeting, Tuesday, February 27, 2007 at 3:54.

President Nix: I will entertain a motion to approve the minutes of the previous meeting.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved.

Commissioner Musgrave: Second.

President Nix: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Nix: Mr. Jeffers, good afternoon.

Bill Jeffers: Good afternoon. I understand we’re in a hurry today, so, I’ll move right into Buckingham Woods Drainage Plan, because I do have specs that have to be advertised in the paper and opened on April 6^th. So, if we get down to the last few minutes, those have to be done. Buckingham–

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Excuse me. It can’t be April 6^th, right?

Madelyn Grayson: It says April 3^rd on the notice.

Bill Jeffers: April 3^rd, I’m sorry.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Okay, alright, okay.

Bill Jeffers: Are we going to count that ten seconds?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: We won’t count anything, as long as you have it right, that’s all.

Bill Jeffers: Gotcha. Buckingham Estates is located on Old State Road, north of Eissler. Eisssler would be down here, okay? It’s labeled Buckingham Woods. This is north of Eissler Road. It’s a relatively small subdivision, one entrance road, two cul-de-sacs. There’s Eissler Road right there on your orthographic photograph. This came before the Drainage Board several years ago under another name, and, basically, this is a reworking of that same plan. You see the lots and the layout, there’s one creek that runs through the subdivision, proposed subdivision, from north to south, in this area. There will be a detention basin on this lot here. The reduced flow rate will discharge from that lot at this point, and then trace down through the creek, until it passes under Eissler Road at a county bridge right here. As I said, the detention area right here will control the increased runoff and release it at the ten year storm rate at this point right here. The plan has been reviewed by the County Surveyor and found to comply with the drainage code for the county. The recommendation is to pass it. I anticipate that there may be some persons in the audience who would like to comment.

President Nix: First, questions from the Board? Is there anyone from the audience that would like to speak to this issue? If you would, when you address the podium, state your name and address for the record please.

Bill Mattingly: My name is Bill Mattingly, 8015 Old State Road. I’m just south of that line right there.

Bill Jeffers: You can use this pointer right here.

Bill Mattingly: That in there. The creek he’s talking about runs down through me right there. I got the only driveway that goes across that creek. I think it’s about right there, with a three foot culvert in it. It probably goes over the, over my road about three to four times a year from the drainage that’s there now, you know, because, I don’t know, back when they, they did Deerfield up in here and everything, they didn’t, that was all (Inaudible) field, you know, and now it’s all mowed grass, and all that comes down through there. He was talking about the last go around we had on this, I had to, the County Engineer and I walked this whole thing, and he couldn’t believe the amount of water that came down. This goes way up. I’ve got a picture of it here, of all what that drains. I don’t know if anybody wants to see it. From Mt. Pleasant Road all that, all this area right here, all drains right down through there, comes down here. Then that meets the little creek he was talking about underneath Eissler Road which goes back through Strawberry Hill and catches 41, the creek down 41. We have all this new building out here, and across 41 and all that ends up down underneath Petersburg Road to an area that’s all dammed up. The last go round on this other subdivision had like 86 signatures against that, but they were worried about drainage. I don’t know if that means anything now or not. It was kind of short notice, we got the letter on this yesterday, you know, so, it’s kind of hard to go around and talk to people.

Commissioner Musgrave: Do you want to go back to the podium?

Bill Mattingly: Of the drawing that they sent us, you know, I didn’t see anything other than a little lake is what it said. I didn’t know if there was any specifications out on that?

Nathan Mominee: My name is Nathan Mominee--

President Nix: Step up to the podium.

Nathan Mominee: My name is Nathan Mominee, I’m representing the engineer from Sitecon.

President Nix: Sitecon, okay, go ahead.

Nathan Mominee: We’re going to put in a wet detention basin that’s going to take the 12 acres of developed area and hold that flow to the ten acre, or the ten year undeveloped flow.

Bill Mattingly: Is that the same flow that’s there now though?

Nathan Mominee: Well, we’re going to allow the upstream–

Commissioner Tornatta: Use that pointer if you would.

Nathan Mominee: We’re going to allow this 29 acres that is upstream, and we’re going to catch it in a pipe here, a 100 year pipe, with an overflow that will take it through the site here. So, the 29 acres of upstream will flow as it has. The 12 acres of developed area is going to be detained right here in this detention basin, and released at the ten year undeveloped rate. So, the water he should see downstream will actually be at a lower intensity, because we’re going to be detaining this to a ten year undeveloped rate.

President Nix: Okay, and along with, in other words, the numbers you’ve run say that, theoretically, the flow should be less coming across this property once this is developed?

Nathan Mominee: He should see lower intensity. So, the flow, we’re going to hold it back. So, there will still be an increase in flow, but because we’re holding it in the detention basin, he’ll see it over a longer amount of time. So, it will flow at the ten year undeveloped rate.

Bill Mattingly: On three lots there, from your little drawing here, the little thing that....you might have a better one.

Nathan Mominee: I have a (Inaudible). I’ll show you, sir. This is the 29 acres, and we’re going to catch, that’s what this line represents here.

Bill Mattingly: Right.

Nathan Mominee: That’s going to catch this off site flow, and we’re going to carry it through this pipe, 100 year sized pipe, with an overflow, and it’s going to exit into the natural stream.

Bill Mattingly: This is a retention pond on three lots then?

Nathan Mominee: On three lots, but it’s going to detain all of the water, basically, from this bold line here, up to here, it’s all going to drain into this, be caught in the street and conveyed through concrete pipes, and all this water is coming to there, this water, it’s going to flow into here. This street is going to be captured here. This street is going to be captured here, and all these storm pipes and ditches flow into this basin, where they will be detained. It’s detaining this entire 12 acres and this area up here.

Bill Mattingly: Okay.

Nathan Mominee: So, it should be an improvement from what you’ve seen in the past.

Bill Mattingly: Okay.

Nathan Mominee: As far as flow intensity.

Bill Mattingly: And the contractor that’s putting that in, the excavating contractor is?

Nathan Mominee: Right, and we’ll have to do as-builts, and that will all have to be approved.

Bill Mattingly: And the people that end up buying the houses have to take care of that? Is that what that agreement, is that what that little bitty fine print will say?

Nathan Mominee: Well, there will either be an association that is required to maintain the drainage, or the developer will have to maintain it.

Bill Mattingly: Okay.

Commissioner Musgrave: Mr. Mominee, I’m not sure your firm was the engineer on the last set of plans that came through–

Nathan Mominee: No, we were not.

Commissioner Musgrave: –okay, then this question is for Mr. Jeffers. Mr. Jeffers, how does this plan differ from the last plan? And, specifically, did the last plan have the 100 year pipe and the above ground retention?

Bill Jeffers: Yes, the last plan was very similar in it’s overall concept and followed the same rules, the same code, had the same capture and release rate, that type of thing. There is probably a difference in the layout of the lots. There may be a difference in the number of lots. The market’s changed–

Bill Mattingly: It’s about the same amount of lots (Inaudible).

Commissioner Musgrave: This plan generated eighty some signatures in opposition last time, correct?

Bill Mattingly: Right.

Commissioner Musgrave: And it has not materially changed then,is that what you’re saying?

Bill Jeffers: Not really. No, it’s a similar concept. In fill development, taking a wooded, this wooded acreage and turning it into residential lots with new county streets. Same concept, probably slightly different layout. It’s not unusual to have neighbors object to infill development. I mean, we see that frequently. Whether you have 80 signatures or, in this case, possibly didn’t have time to circulate a petition. There was quite a lengthy discussion about it the last time.

Commissioner Musgrave: They were approved last time, correct?

Bill Jeffers: I don’t recall–

Bill Mattingly: Yeah, they were approved.

Bill Jeffers: –the developer dropped the–

Bill Mattingly: They couldn’t get an easement for his (Inaudible). Apparently they did get it, I assume.

Bill Jeffers: I don’t know. A lot of these questions could be answered between now and the next review. I’m approving, I mean, I’m recommending approval of the conceptual, preliminary plan. If there is some details to be worked out between now and the next meeting, when the final plan comes before you, which will be in another three or four weeks, after Area Plan Commission meeting, then we could work out a lot of details between now and then.

Commissioner Tornatta: Does lot number 28 affect the drainage plan? Are they planning on building on lot 28?

Bill Jeffers: I would imagine they are going to build on every numbered lot. They would like to build on every numbered lot.

President Nix: Then the idea would be that, more than likely, the owners of 27, 28 and 29 would maintain this lake then?

Bill Jeffers: If that, under the ordinance you have a choice of having plan A, which is a homeowners association, where all the lots chip in for the maintenance of the storm water facilities. Or, plan B, where just the homeowners on whose property the facilities exist do the maintenance. Most developers choose plan B, because that establishes an escrow account that guarantees the pipes and the outfall structures to be repaired by the county, should they fail. We hold that money in escrow in the Auditor’s office. So, most developers pick plan B, because it’s kind of like an insurance policy.

Commissioner Musgrave: Well, on the basis that there’s plenty of time to continue the discussion between now and that time it comes back to us, I’ll make a motion to adopt the recommendation of the Surveyor.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Nix: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

Bill Jeffers: I guess, there possibly would be a better way to notify the adjacent property owners a certain number of days ahead of time. If the board wants to take that up at a future meeting to establish some criteria for notifying the adjacent property owners and giving them time to come to the Surveyor’s office. You know, the notice, I believe, I read a notice the other day and I could not believe that the notice that was sent out did not say plans are available for viewing at the County Surveyor’s office. It really should say that. We should instruct whoever down at the Area Plan Commission that dictates the language on those notices to include in there, “plans are available for viewing at the Surveyor’s office”, because each time they come before you, the remonstrators tell you what we got was such a little, reduced plan we couldn’t make heads or tails out of it. I couldn’t either, even with a magnifying glass. So–

Commissioner Musgrave: Would you like–

Bill Jeffers: –in all fairness, I think the remonstrators should be notified a week or so ahead of the meeting that plans are available for viewing. Just like road plans are when you have a road hearing.

Commissioner Musgrave: Do you need us to do something formal in that regard, or will you approach Mr. Mills on your own?

Bill Jeffers: I’ll go to Mr. Mills first and if we can’t resolve it in some fashion, I’ll come back to you on, I guess, it will be the 13^th of March and let you know. I’m sure, it’s just something that hadn’t occurred to somebody down the line. Mr. Mills is relatively new in that position, those notices have been going out for a while, he probably just used an old notice from a previous administration.

President Nix: Okay. Thank you.

Bill Jeffers: Uh-huh.

Bill Mattingly: One day notice is kind of tough.

President Nix: It is.

Bill Jeffers: I didn’t think it was a one day notice. I mean, when he said that, that’s kind of “bing”, you know.

Bill Mattingly: Well, I got it yesterday.

Bill Jeffers: That’s pretty tough.

President Nix: Mr. Mattingly, thank you for your time.

Commissioner Tornatta: Thank you.

Bill Jeffers: So, did you all have time to vote on that one? I’m sorry.

President Nix: Yeah, we did.

Bill Jeffers: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: Preston Oaks is your next one. It’s on North St. Joe Avenue. It’s north of Glisson’s Auto Salvage Yard, and it’s just a long row of eight lots that I believe you rezoned a week or two ago. You had a rezoning hearing and there were remonstrators here that may have enlightened you with regard to some of their objections about traffic, I believe. I wasn’t here, but I’m sure drainage might be an issue tonight. It’s a very low, flat area. Back in this area it’s only 378 feet above sea level. The plan intends to raise it to a minimum 380 for the houses. Most of this row of houses that exists today out there are built about 380. So, these houses should be built about the same elevation. All the water currently collects and runs, generally, across the flat area, due west, until it gets about here, and then it cuts across these last two lots on Lexington Street, cuts across this corner right here into an existing trace, or whatever you want to call it, you know, just a water trace, and that runs out about 280 feet to Locust Creek, from this point right here. We might get a larger picture and you can see Locust Creek. Yes, there are drainage problems in this area because it’s so flat, but this drainage plan, as I’ve outlined and highlighted for you, shows that it collects the water into a common swale along the north line of the project, and runs it out into a detention basin that will be built at this area, it will be a wet pond, it will release right at the corner of the project into the existing water course, which, as I said runs about due west about 280 feet , right along this alignment to Locust Creek. Again, the County Surveyor has reviewed the plans, reviewed the calculations, found them to comport with the drainage code for the county, and recommends approval of the preliminary plan for Preston Oaks, and, again, I do anticipate that there may be members of your audience here today that would like to comment.

President Nix: Thank you, Mr. Jeffers. Is there anyone here that wishes to speak to the preliminary plan for Preston Oaks Subdivision? Please step forward.

Mike Gaddis: I won’t need that.

President Nix: State your name and address.

Mike Gaddis: My name is Mike Gaddis, 2600 Lexington Road.

President Nix: Thank you.

Mike Gaddis: First of all,it’s a wetland, is what it is. When it rains, very little, the whole area is just, I look out my back door and it’s just, water is every place. The next thing I want to say, I’m not a very good speaker, but the detention pond, to me, we have so many mosquitos now, when they put a pond there, that is, I can’t even go out in my backyard hardly in the summer time because it’s so wet out there. I think with the pond, it’s just going to help the mosquitos. After it rains real hard, all the ditches around there fills up with water. So, where is the detention pond going to go when all the ditches are full but to back up? The way I see it, I don’t know much about those, but that’s the way I see it. They’ve got to back up, and the water is at my yard now, right at my fence yard when it rains real hard. It’s just a wet land. In the summer time when it’s dry, what, the water is just going to lay there and stagnate, I would think, you know, and, again, I just wondered who’s going to take care of this? In a couple of years it’s going to fill up with sludge and trash and stuff like that. I know of another one in another complex that someone was telling me they had, they found trees and everything pushed over into the pond, which, you know, because they don’t clean it up. I don’t know if they have something to circulate the water in those, or if it just lays there. To me it’s just a mosquito nest, in a wooded area like that. I know this is not the right thing to say, but one morning I’m going to wake up probably and those duplexes are going to be there, and I’m going to see them and I’m not going to like it. That’s all I have to say. Thanks.

President Nix: Thank you. Mr. Jeffers, well, someone else wishes to speak.

Bill Jeffers: Pardon me, I put the names of the owners on the lots in case you want to see where Mr. Gaddis and this lady live.

Naomi Gibbs: My name is Naomi Gibbs. I now reside at 2911 Westbrook Court. I own the last house on Lexington on the left. Locust Creek does flood, and it has come up into my yard. Now, Mr. Flowers come to my house after you already had two meetings on building this, and I never was notified, wanting an easement off the back corner of my lot. I want to know what an easement is meant in this? Does that mean he has control of the property or what?

President Nix: Well, I would say that that would depend on what the easement is going to be used for. Mr. Jeffers are you familiar with that particular issue? Is there someone here from Morley that...okay.

Bill Jeffers: Ron London is here and can speak to some of these things, but, I would assume that there would have to be water discharged from the detention basin across the corner of Mrs. Gibbs’ property, right here at this point. There is a ten foot easement there in the adjacent subdivision, but that ten foot easement isn’t specifically a drainage easement. However, there is a watercourse there, that existed there for quite some time, and the plan clearly shows that they want to discharge the drainage basin into that existing watercourse.

Naomi Gibbs: Because I have lived there and I’ve had that water come up into my yard within, I would say 15 feet of my house, when the creek overflows. Now, I’m like Mr. Gaddis, if I see that there’s going to be a pond there, and say you get a hard rain and that pond is full, and then the creek comes up and overflows, is that not more water going in there? And, it is just loaded with mosquitos. I could never sit out in my yard.

President Nix: Please state your name for the record, and who you’re with.

Ron London: My name is Ron London with Morley and Associates.

President Nix: Thank you.

Ron London: We did some research on Locust Creek. FEMA has done a detailed study along the creek there. The 100 year flood elevation is at the elevation of 378, and we have our plans to show that the minimum finished floors for any of the buildings out there would be at 380, which would be two foot above. We have provided the retention basin, and we’re also providing, in the back of the lots, along the, the ones along the left hand side of the cul-de-sac, we will be placing a concrete ribbon which will help as far as getting the water to drain and having a constant elevation at the bottom of that swale. All of that will be going into the retention basin, which does handle the 25 year storm.

Naomi Gibbs: Okay, if I don’t give my approval for an easement off of that property, how are they going to get that water to flow? I mean, right now I am renting the property and they have the option to buy. It’s not going to affect me personally, but those people were my neighbors for over 15 years there. I still know a lot of them. I just want to know how this is going to affect them?

President Nix: If we could get Mr. London to come back up.

Ron London: There’s an existing ten foot easement that runs back in the back there, and according to our plans we do have a plan that works with that area there as it is today.

President Nix: Mr. Jeffers, if you would, he had just stated a minute ago that you weren’t for sure whether that is a drainage easement.

Bill Jeffers: It’s just labeled ten foot easement.

President Nix: Is that acceptable?

Bill Jeffers: We’ll have to work that out with legal staff, as to whether it conveys the right of discharge of water. There would be an opportunity to acquire, if it doesn’t. There would be an opportunity to acquire an easement on the west side of the project line, and bypass the property in question. Basically, my review is of a plan, to determine whether the plan will work if it’s implemented. There may be some legal questions about the easement that have to be resolved. If they’re not resolved, the plan can’t be implemented. But, if the plan is implemented, I believe it will work. It does comport with the drainage code. I would like to point out that all this area that lies below 378, basically this area in here, has had water stand on it, as this lady has told you. That’s absolutely true. The creek does overflow and back into that area. There is water out there today, standing along this fence line right here. I don’t know the last time it’s rained, but it’s been a few days. There’s water standing here several inches deep. I don’t know if it would be classified a wetland, I believe this out in here is a wetland for sure. I believe DNR would call that a wetland. I’m not sure, these are all planted row trees right here. But, as Mr. London told you, he’s going to build this area up two and three feet higher so it matches the built up area over here. That would force all of the water back into the swale that he has designed and carry it, even slowly, in a westerly direction, and hold it in this holding tank that he has desigend until it’s able to be released. Yes, when the creek comes up, water stands there. If it rains while the creek is up water will stand there. When the creek goes down, the water will drain away.

President Nix: As it does right now?

Bill Jeffers: As it is now, and as it will be in the future, and these trees will be cut down, because these people, there’s one tree designated as a championship tree here.

Naomi Gibbs: The big oak?

Bill Jeffers: They intend to preserve that, that tree right there will be preserved. It’s a large oak tree. It’s been identified, and it will be preserved. The rest of those trees, most likely, will come down so they can build the duplexes. So, it won’t be a wooded, wet area any longer. It will be a built up, dry lawn, except for that one tree. I imagine, of course, all of these trees come down to build the street. There may be some trees left in this area, but it’s a little higher.

Commissioner Tornatta: Question?

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir?

Commissioner Tornatta: Will this new plan, and maybe this is a question for someone else, will this new plan alleviate some of the water issues in those areas where they are now?

Bill Jeffers: I believe the new plan will alleviate a lot of standing, stagnant water that’s there now, but, as this lady pointed out, when the creek comes up, the water comes up. So, that’s the same as anything in this subdivision that’s affected currently by high water and the creek. That’s what, when you build in a low, flat area, adjacent to a flood plain, the flood plain actually comes up into this lady’s yard, but doesn’t come up into this project we’re considering. The flood plain just barely cuts across the corner, but doesn’t touch the corner of the project.

Commissioner Tornatta: But, will the detention pond help alleviate some of that water drainage–

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir, I believe it will.

Commissioner Tornatta: –that was in the area that maybe they’re referencing? Potentially, would get the water out so it would deter the mosquitos from the back of their yards?

Bill Jeffers: Well, I’m not sure about that. It won’t pick up, it will pick up the drainage from the project, from within the project limits where water currently stands within this red rectangle, this project limits, it will pick that water up and hold it in that detention basin, which has to be, because it’s a wet basin, has to be a minimum of four feet deep. Now, that’s not mosquito breeding habitat.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Bill Jeffers: So, the water will be all dry, pulled out of this area and conveyed to that holding area, which should not breed mosquitos, and we do have a requirement in our drainage code that water quality must be preserved in a wet basin like that. So, if they do have to add a fountain to do it, they have to add a fountain to do it. You have floating fountains now that are relatively inexpensive that control those kind of conditions, keep the water aereated. If that’s required, and if that becomes an issue, I’ll put it in the requirements for the drainage plan before it comes back before you for final approval. If you want an aereated system, if you think that’s what it takes to get the water quality, that’s what it will be. That last one we looked at was adjacent to one that Buddy Baurer built several years ago, I can’t think of the name right off the top of my head, there’s a fountain in there off Eissler Road, because the pond is small, it needed a fountain to keep the water aereated. We required it, he put it in, everybody’s happy. But, in answer to your question, Mr. Tornatta, I do believe that this plan will raise the elevation of these building lots in such a way that the water will be drained off the backside, down the swale and into the pond that will hold it, thereby drying up the shallow standing water that’s out there today. That’s the kind of water that mosquitos breed in.

President Nix: Mr. Jeffers? Oh, excuse me.

Commissioner Tornatta: No, I was just going to ask–

President Nix: Go ahead.

Commissioner Tornatta: –Ms. Gibbs, does that help answer some questions for you?

Naomi Gibbs: No, I want to know when you build that up, that’s not going to push the water into those lots on Lexington?

Commissioner Tornatta: No. In fact, if you can go out to some subdivisions and maybe if you can, even in your neighborhood, if you go out and look at the subdivision, the back of the subdivision will actually have a swale in between the houses. That is going to carry all that drain off to the detention pond and then off to the natural waterway.

Naomi Gibbs: Well, another, the mosquitos is a lot of the concern, because Mr. Flowers told me, he’s the one that come to my house and informed me of all this, that if it still stays mosquito infested, and he’s gearing this to 25 to 55 and up seniors. I would hate to see them in a mosquito infested area.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right. There again, I think that that individual might want to go and take care of some of those issues himself, if he’s selling those lots in such a way that would bring him a profit. He’s going to try and maintain those to the best of his ability.

Naomi Gibbs: Okay, but, like I say, I’m not going to live there. I live at another house, but I am in the process of wanting to sell my home there.

Commissioner Tornatta: Well, one of the things that we try and do in these meetings is to find out from the Surveyor, from the engineer, what types of plans he has, if they have thought of these certain plans, I mean, they are trained to do that, and they are very good at it. So, in this instance they are going to build it up to a lot that’s even with the houses that are on Lexington, but there will be a point to where the water will drain off in between the houses on Lexington and the Preston Oaks, and then that will be forced out into the waterway, and into the Locust Creek.

Naomi Gibbs: Okay, because, now on the back lot of my house there is a sewer cap, how will that affect that?

Commissioner Tornatta: That’s an engineer question. Do you have a, Mr. London?

Ron London: I believe she may be talking about the sanitary sewer system.

Naomi Gibbs: Yes.

Ron London: They are just going to tie laterals into that to tie into for the buildings back there.

President Nix: The question is, it’s not a storm sewer, it’s strictly sanitary? Those aren’t combination out there?

Ron London: That’s correct. It’s strictly sanitary.

President Nix: This would have no affect whatsoever on that.

Naomi Gibbs: Okay.

President Nix: Now, if it was a combination, I could see your concern.

Naomi Gibbs: Okay, thank you.

President Nix: Thank you. Anyone else here who wishes to speak to this issue? Mr. Jeffers, anything else at all?

Bill Jeffers: No, I continue to recommend it, and we’ll bring it back to you in a more refined form and address some of the questions that your remonstrators have pointed out to us.

President Nix: If we could, just when you do, if we could have a spot, I don’t know how much trouble it would be, an elevation across this on Lexington there, just to verify. I don’t know how much trouble that is.

Bill Jeffers: Spot elevations on the homes on Lexington?

President Nix: Yes, Lexington.

Bill Jeffers: It appears that this one will actually be about six tenths of a foot lower than the homes on Lexington, but we will give you some spot elevations.

President Nix: Don’t go to a whole lot of trouble, just like Commissioner Tornatta said, we want to make sure we don’t end up doing something that’s going to cause–

Bill Jeffers: Exactly.

President Nix: The elevations need to be fairly close, so.

Bill Jeffers: They are actually upstream, in relationship to Locust Creek, they are actually upstream of this location. So, the one’s on Lexington should be a half a foot higher.

President Nix: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: Yes, we’ll give you some spot elevations to verify that.

Commissioner Tornatta: Move approval.

Commissioner Musgrave: Second.

President Nix: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Nix: Thank you.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, I had brought some slide shows as part of my Surveyor’s report, but in order to get out of here by 5:00, I would still like to show them to you, but I want to do the clerical work first so that we can advertise our notice for bidders in the newspaper a couple of times, and publish our specifications, which I’ve given to you in the yellow folder, and pay the claims to the people that we owe money to, and then we’ll come back to the slide shows, if we have any remaining time. I put on your desk a notice to bidders, it’s in the hand of your recording secretary, I’ve signed it, and I’m asking for Bill Nix, President, Troy Tornatta, Vice President, and Cheryl A.W. Musgrave, Member to authorize this with their signatures to be advertised in the newspaper twice. It’s the exact same form as we had last year that you approved, with changes made to reflect the appropriate dates. We will be opening bids on April 3^rd. Did I get it right this time?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Yes.

Bill Jeffers: I keep wanting to say April 6^th.

President Nix: I would entertain a motion.

Commissioner Musgrave: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Nix: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

Bill Jeffers: Then you may read the specifications, they are pretty much in final draft form, we might find some typos or whatever in here that we’ll clean up before the first time it’s advertised in the newspaper, it will be ready to go. But, at this time it is, to the best of our knowledge, ready to go. We ask that you receive those.

Commissioner Musgrave: Motion to receive.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Nix: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

Bill Jeffers: If after you are finished perusing those, you don’t need them, we could use those and send them out to the contractors and save some money on printing. Thank you.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, Charlie Alvey, the Chief Deputy, has prepared for you a slide show, which is part of our annual report this year on the East Side Urban drain, and we are specifically concentrating on the portion of the drain known as Hirsch Ditch, also known as part of the Wabash-Eerie Canal, because it contains the pipe at Morgan Avenue that we’re wanting to replace. We’re trying to make our regulated drains adequate to carry the 100 year flow rate, under 100 year flood conditions in Pigeon Creek, and we’re planning to reconstruct a portion of the regulated drain, as we’ll point out as we move through the slide show. We’ll be looking at East Side Urban regulated drain, and specifically the old Wabash-Eerie Canal, which is currently known by us as Hirsch Ditch. Our project limits for this particular project began at Green River Road and Morgan Avenue intersection with pipe number one. We have had American Consulting Engineers, who have changed their name to Structure Point, study this area all the way up through the sixth pipe. Well, actually they studied it all the way to Burkhardt Road, but we’re going to talk about what we found in these six pipes. As you know, this is the pipe conglomeration that we’re wanting to replace at Green River Road and Morgan. This pipe on your far right, actually just drains the road system for Green River Road. It’s not part of our regulated drain. It empties into our regulated drain. This corrugated metal pipe is one of the pipes that comes in at an angle from the other side of the road. We have no idea what’s going on up underneath the road there and why it takes these angles. It did not follow the set of plans that was developed for it in 1978. For some reason, I guess, when they got up underneath there, they ran into some utilities and it ended up like this. Also at a lower elevation than the other pipe, which is a concrete pipe. Next slide. That’s a close up of the metal pipe. Next slide. That’s a close up of the concrete pipe. You can see that both of them are somewhat obstructed. I believe they’re undersized. Right now the engineer is telling us somewhere between a nine by nine and a ten by twelve box to replace this. This is the upstream end of the pipe, it’s at some crazy angle that you can’t hardly see here, but this is really a 45 degree angle coming off that drain, rather than in straight alignment like it should have been. So, it’s not taking as much water as it could. So, that structure number one needs to be replaced, and we’ve talked about that at great length with INDOT, and we continue to await the final design from our consultant. The next pipe is pipe number two, it’s up here in front of Kight Home Center, underneath a railroad spur. The railroad spur, they say, is still active. You can see water standing in it, half full all the time, because it’s obstructed. Next slide. This is the downstream end of it, and you can see water is obstructed not only in the pipe, but at some point downstream something’s holding the water back up in that pipe. Next slide. What was identified as holding it in there is some silt bars that are in there, and I thought that was on a slide, but it might be on the next one. Anyhow, that pipe needs to be cleaned out, as well as the ditch downstream of it. Pipe number three, you can see it’s, this is the downstream end, this is the old Complete Lumber store, which I believe is a kitchen design store now. This is the type of obstructions we find all the time where construction in this heavily developing area has released rock, silt, what have you into our ditches, and it’s accumulated in silt bars like this, sediment bars. It’s holding the water back in these pipes half full. That’s just some construction debris that blew in there. Next slide. At the upstream end of the pipe, same thing, it’s just, they’re all obstructed, they need to be cleaned out. Next slide. Pipe number four is up here at, it goes into a warehouse between the Complete store and whatever store this is. They say it’s still active, I have my doubts, but that pipe at least is less than half full. So, it’s not as severely obstructed. Next slide. The upstream end is, all this rip rap that was slurried and has fallen down in front. Next slide. Pipe number five is under the entrance to the new Home Improvement Warehouse. They moved from this building here, they moved over to this building so that they have frontage directly on Morgan Avenue, rather than have to enter off this spur of Oak Grove Road. I guess they have higher visibility here and a nice warehouse. So, that’s their entrance, it’s not as obstructed, but you’re not getting full flow in that pipe. The channel needs to be dressed up. Next slide. Next slide, Charlie. Upstream end has the same kind of problems. It’s got a sediment bar sitting in front of it, and some rocks tumbling down in front of it. Okay, pipe number six, I’m hoping we can remove this one completely. It’s one of the biggest problems out there. It’s on an abandoned railroad spur owned by Norfolk Southern. Let’s take a look at that pipe, Charlie. You can see the railroad spur, the rails have been partially pulled out, up here they don’t exist at all. So, it’s not going anywhere. Railroad ties are gone, the pipe is half full of water all the time. Let’s take a look at the upstream end. All this stuff has been pulled out at one time or another. We’ve gotten dump truck loads out of the front end of this pipe. This is the first one downstream of the developing area, and it catches most of it. We’ve gone out there and pulled two or three dump truck loads at a time out of that pipe.

Madelyn Grayson: Excuse me, Bill, can we change the tape real quick?

Bill Jeffers: Sure.

(Tape change)

Madelyn Grayson: Thank you.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, the Morley study that the Commissioners commissioned a couple of years ago for the entire flood plain out there says that each one of these pipes is a nine by six plate arch. You can see that they’re not, the water stands like that all the time, they’re not utilizing half of that square foot opening. Our consultant who we hired to specifically study this area down through here and give us recommendations on how to convey a 100 year flow through here, has said that indeed those are six by nine pipes, and they’re very hard to measure because they are, you know, full of water most of the time, that that’s an eight foot equivalent diameter, and that could handle a substantial amount of water and we shouldn’t be having any flooding problems. That they were designed to handle the 100 year flow, and that if we make some improvements they might be able to come out here and verify that that will, without much expense, handle that flow. So, their recommendation is that we clean out the obstructions that we’ve shown you here today, clean out the pipes, and then come back and measure them and examine the internal condition of those pipes, see if they’re, they were put in around 1979, to see if they have deteriorated to the point they need replacement, or whether they could just be fixed up, or which ones need to be replaced and which ones need to be fixed up and left alone. So, in these specs we have specifications for doing just that, cleaning out those pipes. We feel this is one of our major issues this year because of the development of your TIF zone, is drained by this area, and we want as rapid a development of that as we can get, so that we don’t want people being apprehensive about flood insurance or flooding issues. Okay? I’m going to skip real quick to the next slide show, well, we’ll go back to that some other time, that’s a different issue altogether. This one is on Eagle Slough which is the ditch that drains pretty much the whole southeast side of Evansville. It’s the regulated drain that passes through the area that you’re looking at, the 72 acres you’re looking at to possibly purchase from the state. It drains K-1, K-2 and K-3 pump stations. There are existing obstructions and structural concerns associated with this, according to our consultant. There is an inspection and maintenance access issue. It’s hard to get in and out of some of these places on a regular basis to either examine their condition or to have emergency responses to something that might cause flooding. The consultant is also doing a storm water quality evaluation because of all the urban runoff that comes out of those pump stations. We are developing a long range plan, including recommendations, cost estimates and permits that are required for regulations and so forth. This is the very upstream end of the ditch. You can see it just runs through some corn fields east of Green River Road. It’s just a farm ditch at that point, but as you move down through the wooded area, and this is similar to the area, the 72 acres you’re looking at, it becomes a rather large drain. We’ve tried to maintain the vegetation on both sides natural, but accessible, and to keep the trees somewhat back from the top of the banks. We’re restricted as to what we can do to remove trees anymore, because of DNR regulations in the wetland, but this is fairly suitable for embankments in a rural area. It’s not so bad. However, it’s also a good habitat for beaver, who like to go up in here and cut these young willows and drag them down here and make beaver dams. That’s one of the main problems we’re experiencing, and one of the main concerns for the levee corporation and for the storm water task force and for the property owners who have property back up in there that have experienced serious flooding. Then we have areas where there is rip rap available for persons who may be trapping or fishing, and they take it off of your bridge revetment, say at Weinbach Avenue, they take the bridge department’s rip rap, and move it downstream a little bit and make a crossing so that they don’t get their feet wet when they go fishing. So, sounds funny, but these things have to come out too. Okay, Charlie, and they do collect debris. This is another beaver dam. You can see we’ve tried to keep the vegetation back as best we can, the woody vegetation that beavers use, but they are industrious animals, and they will travel several feet to get suitable material to build the dam.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Do they travel by that canoe?

Bill Jeffers: That’s one of the only ways we can get in there to inspect that area. Okay, here is K-3 pump station, this is a river guage here. There’s K-3 pump station, this drains all that area around Lodge School and into Lodge Avenue, all that. The beavers have gone up into that lateral and built a fairly substantial dam. The County Highway Department took that out a couple of years ago, and here it is back again. That backs water up against this flat gate, and, that’s not so much of a problem until the sediment continually settles out and blocks the flat gate. So, this will be part of our removal. We will take on the responsibility of removing this beaver dam on a regular basis, and possibly hiring a trapper to remove the beavers and relocate them in a more suitable environment. This is just downstream from the same location. It shows that the beavers are also active in the main channel. Yet another beaver dam, we’re just trying, I think we’re trying to reinforce that there’s a problem with beavers, okay. Okay, our structural concerns are limited, basically, to local spot improvements here and there. There’s a few places in the drain that do need embankment improvements or need additional rip rap around the bridges to replace rip rap that’s been removed either by the strong flow of the creek, or physically removed by persons. We do have an issue with maintenance and inspection access. We hope that that 72 acres, if it ever comes to fruition, will give us more access to an area, particularly along the U.S. 41 right-of-way, where we do have significant obstructions to the levee pump station, and that just coincidentally happens to be one of the hardest places for us to access with equipment. Our preliminary recommendations have come from the consultant. Our on-going beaver population control, storm water quality monitoring is recommended for the areas that are being discharged out of the urban area in the city, and also there appears some illegal dumping that has gone on that we are probably going to have to clean up, not associated with the 72 acres. It’s more up around Weinbach, and it appears to be agricultural herbicides, pesticides, we haven’t specifically identified what they are, but they are in barrels. We want a hydraulic analysis to evaluate any pending issues that might affect the storm water task force that the city has going. Hopefully, nothing that we maintain is restricting any flow out of the city. We want to take care of any issue that would leave anybody with any concerns in that regard. So, we will be pursuing that with specifications later this summer, because we don’t have the final recommendations on that. I just wanted to bring it to your attention as part of my report.

Commissioner Musgrave: The funding issues, do you have funding to cover these? Or will you have to seek funding?

Bill Jeffers: We have a fairly good source of funding through our annual assessment on this drain, because so much of it is urban, in the city, that we get a substantial, I think we get $30,000 a year in assessments that should go a long way towards that. Do, does anyone else have any other questions about our report? There will be a written report follow this, probably after road school, when we come back after road school we’ll have a written report.

President Nix: Thank you, Mr. Jeffers. That was very enlightening.

Bill Jeffers: The only bit of information I have, or business I have is the claims for the maintenance operators who have finished their work, and it has been inspected and approved by us.

Commissioner Musgrave: Motion to approve the claims.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Nix: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

Bill Jeffers: Then, I’m at your service should you have any questions about anything we’re doing.

President Nix: No other business at all then?

Bill Jeffers: No, sir.

President Nix: Questions?

Commissioner Tornatta: I was going to say, before we get out of here, not to confuse two meetings, but do you think we could, I would like to recommend that we send a letter to the County Council so that we get a, get one of their members to be at our department head meeting.

Commissioner Musgrave: I can go ahead and write that letter.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

President Nix: Do we need that in a motion?

Commissioner Musgrave: Is that a motion?

Commissioner Tornatta: I make that in the form of a motion.

Commissioner Musgrave: I’ll second.

President Nix: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Nix: Mr. Jeffers, thank you.

Bill Jeffers: Yeah, I’ll see you guys at road school. Have a safe trip up there.

President Nix: Thank you. Is there any other business to come before this board? If not, I will entertain a motion to adjourn.

Commissioner Musgrave: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Nix: All in favor?

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Nix: You all have a good evening.

(The meeting was adjourned at 4:49 p.m.)

Those in Attendance:

Bill Nix                                      Troy Tornatta                            Cheryl Musgrave

Bill Jeffers                                 Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.          Madelyn Grayson

Brenda Jeffers                          Bill Mattingly                             Nathan Mominee

Mike Gaddis                             Naomi Gibbs                             Ron London

Others Unidentified                   Members of Media

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

Bill Nix, President

Troy Tornatta, Vice President

Cheryl A.W. Musgrave, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)