VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

AUGUST 21, 2007

The Vanderburgh County Drainage Board met in session this 21^st day of August, 2007 at 4:02 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with Vice President Troy Tornatta presiding.

Commissioner Nix: Good afternoon. I would like to call to order the Vanderburgh County Drainage Board, Tuesday, August 21, 2007. Excuse me, force of habit, Mr. President.

Commissioner Tornatta: Don’t steal my job.

Commissioner Nix: Take it.

Commissioner Tornatta: Mr. Jeffers, welcome, and we’re gonna, I guess, we’re gonna approve the minutes from the previous meeting.

Commissioner Nix: Move approval.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

Commissioner Nix: All in favor?

Commissioner Tornatta: Aye. I know, you can just keep doing this, if you want.

Commissioner Tornatta: Mr. Jeffers?

Bill Jeffers: Good afternoon, President Tornatta. I understand you’re the President of Drainage Board now?

Commissioner Tornatta: Well, I was last week too.

Bill Jeffers: I missed the proclamation.

Commissioner Tornatta: No, I was President last week. It just–

Bill Jeffers: Okay, okay, well–

Commissioner Nix: Force of habit.

Bill Jeffers: Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Commissioner Nix, Mr. Ziemer, Ms. Grayson. The only order of business I have today is a final drainage plan for Stonefield Park Subdivision. The project is located on the west side of Green River Road, north of Theater Drive, south of Mystic Creek planned unit development in Timbers Park. The photograph we have up doesn’t show all the surrounding neighborhood, but to the north you have the Timbers Apartments and Evansville Day School. You’re probably familiar with it. Over here on the right hand side, the east side of Green River Road is Sugar Mill Creek. To the west of the project is what’s generally known as Theater, excuse me, Valley Downs Subdivision, and south of there is where the Spurling’s are developing an apartment and commercial mixed use project across the street from the Teacher’s Credit Union, Evansville Teacher’s Credit Union. The plan proposes to capture, oh, first of all, it’s 66 and a quarter acres, commercial development on existing agricultural land. A portion of it’s in the flood plain. Up there in the northern part you can see a creek that drains Green River Road, and that goes off to Pigeon Creek, and that’s in the flood plain. The plan proposes to capture post development run off from the 66 acres and take it to two individual large detention lakes. One of them is in the southeast corner of the project down here in the lot that says Stonefield Park, and the other one is in the large lot on the north end of the subdivision. The design includes an earthen berm along the west line as a sight and sound barrier between Valley Downs residential subdivision and this new commercial development. The drainage from the outside of that berm will be captured by an intercepting swale and brought to the inside to go into the detention lakes. There will be flap gates installed to prevent back flow from the detention basins back into the residential subdivision. There won’t be any back flow from that. There’s also a drainage inlet provided in the very southeast corner, the lower left hand corner that captures any run off from the adjacent neighborhoods. The rest of what is generating Valley Downs is controlled by their own system. The County Surveyor is recommending approval of the plan for Stonefield Park Subdivision with the following stipulations; the design engineer must submit a final set of street and drainage plans with details satisfactory to the County Engineer for all facilities associated with existing Green River Road drainage system, and other facilities that will be accepted or maintained by the County Highway Department. In other words Mr. Stoll has a good list of items he wants addressed specific to Green River Road, the existing drainage system there. The current developer and any subsequent developers must understand that no connections serving the interior lots of Stonefield Subdivision will be allowed to connect to the 48 inch and 54 inch storm sewer lines that carry Green River Road drainage through the project, except for a single connection that’s shown controlling the outlet for the detention basin number two. In other words, they’re installing a system that takes the current drainage out from Green River Road through this project, that’s solely for Green River Road drainage and not to be tapped into by any of the interior lots. They have their own tap ins provided by the plan. Number three, all site development subsequent, of subsequent entrances or utility crossings of this 48 inch and 54 inch storm sewer line must include exact details of the cover and compaction sufficient to protect that 54 and 48 inch line. In other words, when the individual stores come in here and their driveways cross that line, and they take some dirt off and put down their concrete entrance aprons, etcetera, that all has to be situated and compacted in such a way that it will continue to protect that line. Because that line is plastic, it has to have good protection from deflection, etcetera. Number four, in order to accomplish the full 100 year post development detention in these two lakes, the design requires a temporary five foot surge in the pool depth. The ordinance says we would like to keep it to a four foot maximum depth, we’re thinking of residential subdivisions where there’s children, etcetera. But, in this case it’s a commercial project, and the County Surveyor is recommending that they be allowed to go to a five foot increase in depth on a temporary basis to handle the 100 year run off. That’s shown in the revised design. Number five, the current plan includes a peculiar emergency overflow design that will result in back flow from the receiving street inlets when the height of the detained storm water, in the fully charged system exceeds 382 feet above sea level, vertical elevation. Okay, like I say, it’s kind of a peculiar emergency overflow system. The County Surveyor anticipates that future lot owners probably will submit modified plans with individual site development in order to accomplish more practical set up and use of their property. This always happens. They’ll come in there, they’ll want to use that for parking area, they’ll see a ditch in there that’s got water in it occasionally, they’ll want to come back, I know they’re going to come back and want to modify that plan so they can use it for parking or whatever. So, knowing that, the recommendation for approval, basically, acknowledges this peculiar design feature, and anticipates a more practical modification in the future. With those statements and the understanding that the approval is dependent upon the County Engineer’s recommendation for the final street and drainage plans associated with public roads and facilities, the County Surveyor recommends approval of the plan for the drainage facilities within the privately developed and maintained portion of Stonefield Park Subdivision project. You have that in writing, basically, we’re trying to move ahead as quickly as possible. There is a client for a large part of this project who, they want to move forward as quickly as possible. They still have to deal with the County Engineer and the County Commissioners with regard to street plan approval out here on Green River Road. Their erosion control plan is in front of Mike Wathen and under review at this time.

Commissioner Tornatta: Alright. I would like to ask for any remonstrators? If there are any? Seeing none.

Victor Dorsey: Like what?

Commissioner Tornatta: Beg your pardon?

Victor Dorsey: Like what? I mean–

Commissioner Tornatta: Do you have any questions about the project? Or do you want to state anything about the project? If so, you have to come up to the microphone and state your name and address.

Victor Dorsey: I just had a question. (Inaudible).

Commissioner Tornatta: Hold on, I need your name and address, if that’s okay.

Victor Dorsey: Do what?

Commissioner Tornatta: I need your name and address.

Victor Dorsey: My name is Victor Dorsey.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

Victor Dorsey: 2509 Saratoga Drive.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

Victor Dorsey: This is city that I live in.

Commissioner Tornatta: Alright.

Victor Dorsey: Everything on the discussions that’s going on with all this back here is just county. Strictly county. Do I have anything to say about it being in the city? Like a City Council meeting or something like that? Or a City-Vanderburgh County meeting? See, we’re in the city, we’re left all out of this, because this is in the county. That’s what I don’t quite understand why all this discussion is in the county only.

Commissioner Tornatta: Now, are you talking about the drainage side or the project side?

Victor Dorsey: Everything.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, right now we’re talking about the drainage side.

Victor Dorsey: Okay.

Commissioner Nix: Strictly drainage.

Victor Dorsey: We’re in the city, and, so, wouldn’t the city back here behind us be on the city side? Right there at Saratoga and where that green line starts.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, and Mr. Jeffers might be able to address anything with the drainage side of the process.

Bill Jeffers: Right. The reason the County Drainage Board is, has this in front of them is because the project is in the county. As the gentleman has pointed out, the city-county line is the west line of this project. He’s in the city, this project is in the county. If you want to discuss drainage, the County Surveyor has walked that entire property line, last week, and compared it to the drainage plan that’s been submitted, and I have looked at the drainage for Saratoga Drive, and every house from one corner of the new project all the way to the north corner. I’ve examined the drainage system within the city, and looked at the plans, and had discussions with people, and have determined that this plan either picks up any water that comes from Mr. Dorsey’s immediate area, and would otherwise flow into this farm field. There is an inlet at the very southwest corner of this project, there’s an inlet provided so that any water that is cast across the line into Stonefield is picked up and taken, and then as you walk north along that line, a ditch that exists, and a pipe system that exists for Saratoga and for all the homes along that line appears to be sufficient to pick up all the water that accumulates there and take it off to Pigeon Creek through the city. There have been notices sent out on this particular project to all abutting property owners for the rezoning hearing, for the plat hearing in front of Area Plan Commission, etcetera. So, it makes no difference whether this project is in the county or the city or whether people share an interest back and forth across the city-county line, all of the hearings have been announced, they have been public, and notices have gone out to adjacent property owners so they may attend and give comment to the rezoning and to the plat review that was in front of Area Plan Commission. Now, we’re at the final drainage plan review and Mr. Dorsey is here, and you can make comments whether you’re in the city or the county. These people represent both.

Victor Dorsey: They do?

Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir. I work for both residents of the city and the county. It’s just that according to statute, because it’s in the county, we review it in front of this body here tonight.

Victor Dorsey: Okay. Their concerned about the water going from our part over to Stonefield. Is that it? The drainage?

Bill Jeffers: Are you concerned about that?

Victor Dorsey: I’m concerned, because I know the farmland is higher than our area. In other words, it’s not going to drain that way, it’s going to drain towards the west. See, my yard’s down here and the field’s up there.

Bill Jeffers: Right, there are fluctuations in there. There are portions of that field and the majority of that field is somewhat higher than Saratoga, the property along Saratoga. We recognize that, and so did the developer of Valley Downs. That’s why he put a large swale and pipe system along the east line of Valley Downs to catch the water that comes off the farm field and take it off. I mean, when you see this system in Valley Downs, you’ll know that it’s not set up because of the small amount of water that comes off the back of those homes and their back yards. It’s set up to catch the water from this farm field. Well, as I said in my presentation, there’s going to be a large earthen berm that the residents of Valley Downs wanted, they requested a–

Victor Dorsey: I’m not in Valley Downs.

Bill Jeffers: Well–

Victor Dorsey: I’m on–

Commissioner Tornatta: It runs from north to south.

Victor Dorsey:(Inaudible) is not Valley Downs.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, I stand corrected. Keeneland Court, Valley Downs, the whole neighborhood.

Commissioner Tornatta: But, that berm runs all the way from–

Bill Jeffers: It runs from one end to the other.

Commissioner Tornatta: Yeah.

Commissioner Nix: Let me ask, Mr. Dorsey?

Victor Dorsey: Yes?

Commissioner Nix: You’re concerned about water coming from Stonefield Park on to your property, is that correct?

Victor Dorsey: It does. I’m not concerned, it does.

Commissioner Nix: Okay, it does now, but the new development shows a berm which is actually higher than the existing elevations that are there that would divert the water back on to Stonefield Park. Correct me if I’m wrong, Mr. Jeffers.

Victor Dorsey: Okay, that would be great. You got the berm here, okay, it’s going to divert the water back to Stonefield. What about this side over here that’s going to diver that water back into our side? Am I wrong?

Bill Jeffers: No, you’re correct.

Victor Dorsey: If you’re going to have a berm–

Bill Jeffers: You’re correct. The drainage off one side of the berm facing you will shed down to the west, it will be captured by a swale at the bottom of the berm that will intercept the water coming off the berm before it crosses the line on to you, and it’s picked up in a ditch and taken to inlets with a pipe system that brings it back around into Stonefield. That’s shown on a plan up here on the desk. Every, all the water shed off that field will be captured and no longer will go into Keeneland or Valley Downs. It will be brought back in to Stonefield and put into their lakes through a pipe system.

Victor Dorsey: Okay.

Commissioner Tornatta: Does that help you out with the question?

Victor Dorsey: What about the sewer, the sewer behind us on Saratoga between Saratoga and Stonefield? There is a sewer back there, and I don’t know if it’s a storm sewer, a regular waste, what is waste water or something like that?

Commissioner Nix: Sanitary possibly.

Victor Dorsey: Yeah, see, I don’t know which one it is. Are they connecting on to that sewer from these other, from the north and the south, are they connecting on to that sewer? Is the sewer not even going to be in this?

Commissioner Tornatta: I don’t think there are any sewers in it.

Commissioner Nix: No, no it doesn’t, this is strictly drainage.

Dave True: I think part of the problem is, Victor probably hasn’t seen the latest plans. That’s my fault.

Commissioner Tornatta: Could you state your name and address please?

Dave True: Yes, Dave True with Landmark Design. I just called Victor yesterday when I found out that we were on the Drainage Board agenda. So, he hasn’t had a chance to look at the plans yet. But, the, if I could, from approximately here to the north, or actually here, I’m sorry, to the north–

Madelyn Grayson: Dave, we’re going to need to have your comments on the record. So, you’re going to have to speak in to the microphone.

Commissioner Nix: Come back over to the mic, just point it out to us. Can you run the mouse over there on that line there? Right about there, there you go.

Dave True: From that point to the north, on the residential properties there is a storm sewer system that actually captures the drainage that’s coming off of the farmland that we’re hoping to develop here, and carries it on towards the creek to the north. From that point to the south the backyards, as well as a city public utility easement are actually draining towards a swale that then crossed on the south line of this subdivision we’re showing here, crossed over towards Green River and drained that direction. What we’ve tried to do is have an opening down at the southwest corner that would allow that drainage to continue to drain away from the residential subdivision.

Commissioner Nix: Okay.

Dave True: As Bill said, we have inlets and piping along the west side of that new berm that we’re proposing that will capture any water on the west side of the berm that’s coming down towards them.

Commissioner Nix: Okay, not necessarily for this meeting, can you address any sanitary issues? Is that your question?

Dave True: There are some pipes and manholes, sanitary sewer that are in the same area where there is no storm sewer on the city property. I believe that’s what Victor was pointing out.

Victor Dorsey: Yeah, right, there’s no drainage from the north to the south in the section that I live in.

Commissioner Nix: So, you’re–

Victor Dorsey: It kind of goes like this here.

Commissioner Nix: –talking about an area that’s not part of the development then?

Dave True: Right.

Victor Dorsey: Is that right?

Dave True: Yes.

Commissioner Nix: Okay.

Dave True: He’s concerned, of course, that whatever we’re doing here doesn’t make it worse, and we’re not going to. We’re actually going to improve, at least the existing swale outfall will allow the storm water that gets there to get away quicker than it is now.

Victor Dorsey: You do have, what’s it called, a manhole or something up there to the north of that? But, it’s too high for my section? There’s no way for that water to get to that? Because it sits up–

Dave True: Right.

Victor Dorsey: What about–

Dave True: That manhole, yeah, sits up probably–

Victor Dorsey: Is that the same way too?

Dave True: –it probably sits up two foot higher than your grade, yes. The manhole.

Victor Dorsey: It’s really not–

Dave True: That one doesn’t do you any good. No. But, that’s, like I say, that’s part of the city storm sewer that comes across Sherm’s property line and then heads north. But, they didn’t, as it was developed, they didn’t put any provision in for storm drainage on the back side other than, like I say, the swale that heads towards Green River Road along their south property line.

Victor Dorsey: A thing happened when they put us into the, we were in the county back 30 years ago, they brought us into the city, and the farmer had a pretty nice, good ditch back there. You know, well, there wasn’t any problem then, because it would just go away. But, the ditch disappeared, you know, I guess, he just plowed it under. There’s now, the farmland is a good, a foot higher than my back yard. The way the water, the water will not go into the field, it will come back toward the west into my yard.

Commissioner Nix: But, once again, the new development shows a berm which will actually–

Victor Dorsey: Yeah, this is fine.

Commissioner Nix: –divert water. Okay, and then, along with that, there will be some drainage along the property line that will come south and to the east that should eliminate part of the problem that you’ve got right now. Is that correct?

Dave True: Yes.

Commissioner Nix: Okay.

Commissioner Tornatta: Mr. Dorsey? I’m sorry.

Dave True: There are other issues with the residential subdivision as to the grades. Some of it is quite a bit lower, even in the swale that was there for their provision. So, he still has existing problems that aren’t going away with this plan.

Commissioner Tornatta: But, the plan would not put any more run off on to his land then, and that’s what we want to try and prevent.

Dave True: That’s right.

Commissioner Tornatta: Any other questions, Mr. Dorsey?

Victor Dorsey: No. That’s what I was concerned about.

Commissioner Tornatta: Alright.

Commissioner Nix: Thank you for coming.

Commissioner Tornatta: Yeah, thanks for your comment.

Victor Dorsey: Thank you.

Commissioner Tornatta: If there are no other comments, motion to approve?

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

Commissioner Nix: All in favor?

Commissioner Tornatta: Aye.

Commissioner Nix: Aye, and that is with the contingencies that Mr. Jeffers addressed as part of the motion.

Bill Jeffers: Unless the board has any questions or other business, I have nothing else.

Madelyn Grayson: I have one question. Did we approve the August 14^th Drainage Board minutes?

Commissioner Tornatta: Yes.

Commissioner Nix: I think I did that as President before the President took over.

Madelyn Grayson: I missed that.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to adjourn?

Commissioner Nix: I’ll make that motion.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

Commissioner Nix: All in favor?

Commissioner Tornatta: Aye.

Commissioner Nix: Aye.

Commissioner Tornatta: We’re not doing this again.

(The meeting was adjourned at 4:25 p.m.)

Those in Attendance:

Troy Tornatta                                      Bill Nix                            Bill Jeffers

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.                    Madelyn Grayson           Victor Dorsey

Dave True                                           Others Unidentified         Members of Media

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

Troy Tornatta, Vice President

Bill Nix, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)