VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

APRIL 6, 2010

The Vanderburgh County Drainage Board met in session this 6^th day of April, 2010 at 7:00 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with President Troy Tornatta presiding.

President Tornatta: Alright, let’s get on with this Drainage Board meeting, please. It’s seven up, 7:00, and we are at the Tuesday, March 16, 2010 Vanderburgh County Drainage Board.

President Tornatta: Do I have a motion to approve the prior meetings’ minutes?

Commissioner Melcher: So moved.

Commissioner Winnecke: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Mr. Jeffers?

Bill Jeffers: Good evening, Bill Jeffers, County Surveyor. That’s my other ball cap, room 325, Civic Center. Our drainage plan for tonight is Saint Joseph Hills Subdivision. It’s a preliminary drainage plan. The proposed project is on your screen now, and it’s located on St. Joseph Road near St. Wendel Road. You are familiar with the St. Joe community, St. Joe Catholic Church, St. Joe. Tavern, etcetera right there just a scant quarter mile to the east. Okay, it’s an eight lot, large lot subdivision, as you can see. Each of the lots exceeds two and a half acres, with some of them being huge, as a matter of fact. There’s two existing homes, one of them is in the middle of the project, and that in itself will be one lot with a long driveway that comes down to St. Joe Road. There’s another home down here on the lot in the middle, and then the rest of those lots are vacant and will be available for building new homes, eight lots, eight homes total. When, part of my recommendation for the drainage plan will include the Drainage Board waiving the requirement for storm water detention, because it already has a huge lake that captures a lot of the water. That controls that much runoff, and because there’s so much, we can look at some of the pictures and you can see what type of terrain we’re talking about. It’s farm ground, rolling farm ground. You have soybeans down here, corn fields, open areas that are bare dirt, some areas are conservation tilled, but what I’m saying is, when all of this becomes tightly turfed grass lawns, the C factor goes from like 31 percent runoff down to 15 or 20 percent runoff, because the tight grass turf captures, holds that additional runoff and absorbs it into the ground or evaporates it into the atmosphere and there’s no need for detention on such large lots. I believe there were some persons concerned at the last hearing. I don’t know if they’re here tonight. There are a couple, at least one gentleman, maybe two back here that may be concerned. They possibly live around the subdivision and may be concerned about additional runoff running through or towards their property. There is one large watercourse that starts up here in the north central area of the large lot, runs southward through this little wooded area, and at the corner of this lot here it then crosses over into adjacent property which is farm ground, or field, open fields, it runs through a wooded creek, down through these properties and then back towards the southwest through this last lot that is, doesn’t have a home in it, but it is someone else’s property. That creek then runs back through the very southeast corner of the project and under St. Joe Road. There’s another watercourse that comes out of this large, adjacent property over here on the west side and runs down through one of the proposed lots, and, actually, it’s hard to see because the scale is so large, or the picture is so large and the scale is so small here, but that watercourse then runs right down through this lot adjacent to these properties that are not a part of the project, but, the watercourse itself stays on the proposed project. I did have a concern originally about the outlet from the lake running down through this narrow easement alongside the driveway. That’s why I delayed it last month because I didn’t know if there was enough space in this driveway easement, or enough space in the drainage easement to house that watercourse without getting too close to the driveway. I think, if we look at some pictures....let me see the legend over on the left. Okay, wait, there we go, here’s the driveway I’m talking about, and there is plenty of green space for a shoulder, and then the watercourse itself is a grassy watercourse that was created by the current owner, and it’s plenty good distance away from the driveway. He does, even though there are some tall weeds in it right now, it’s basically a grassy waterway that can be kept mowed. So, I no longer have any concern about that issue. The engineer for this project is Mr. Bill Bivins, land surveyor, registered land surveyor and professional engineer who has signed and stamped all the plans. He does show calculations for the existing flow from the land and calculations for what it would be when it’s fully developed with large, grass lawns. It shows that there’s no need for detention. He says it takes the runoff coefficient from 39 percent runoff, substantially down, and I’m saying probably in the neighborhood of 15 to 20 percent runoff after it’s totally grassed. I do recommend approval of the plan. It’s a preliminary plan, it will then go to Area Plan Commission, if there’s any significant concerns about drainage that I have not covered or I’ve overlooked, they can be handled between now and such time as the final drainage plan is brought to you. They cannot obtain a building permit until the final drainage plan is approved. You also will be, or, well, John Stoll will be receiving some sort of erosion and pollution control, MS4 plan for each lot showing some sort of erosion and drainage control during construction. So, now, I guess, you should ask for persons from the audience to express their concerns.

President Tornatta: And we shall do that. Come on up. If you would, please, state your name and your address.

David Hellenberg: I’m Dave Hellenberg. I live at 10616 St. Wendel Road. That’s my house just, almost straight up from the Gonnerman’s there and the woods.

President Tornatta: Okay.

David Hellenberg: That’s my house right there. In these drainage plans, I was reading on them, they are dated 1981, and my house has been built since then, and a couple of others on St. Wendel Road there that have been built since then. There’s a little valley right through here where that runoff runs right down in here and then there’s another one that’s coming right through here that’s tying into it, and I’m concerned about creating a cesspool there, because they’re talking about elevation. If they do any kind of elevation in this area here, it could cause it to hold water there, in my property there, right behind my house where the water is draining there. That’s my concern.

President Tornatta: Okay. Any questions?

Bill Jeffers: Thank you. That’s a legitimate concern. The gentleman is correct, there are two watercourses that join up right here, and that’s the larger watercourse that runs down through this large lot. He’s correct if they were to change elevations in this area and somehow block that watercourse, then, obviously, it would back water up onto his property. What I would say in that regard is, they can’t do that, and if they do do that he can come to the Drainage Board and seek remedy and we would order, and the Drainage Board would order anyone who blocked that watercourse, causing water to back up on this gentleman’s property, would be ordered to remove that blockage and restore the correct drainage. I don’t think there’s any part of the plan that would cause that. It would be a negligent action on the part of the property owner to do that, because the plan that was submitted, obviously, I believe, Mr. Bivins indicated to me that the house would be built in this area next to the lake. That’s the plan at this time. This area up here would just, I guess, they would use it to ride their horses or something. That’s what I would use it for. I would use it for planting tomatoes, but that’s me.

President Tornatta: Hold on.

Bill Jeffers: But, I believe the house is going to be built here and there would be no excavation or fill necessary back in this area.

President Tornatta: Okay. Dave?

David Hellenberg: Right here on the plan it says “spot elevation”. Right there, where I said. It says, “spot elevation” right there on this here. Now, I don’t know if they’re talking about raising the elevation here at (inaudible) 43, because that is right exactly on the spot where we’re talking about. That concerned me when I seen it.

Bill Jeffers: Right, and I understand his concern. What the a, what spot elevation is, it’s a point on a map, a topographical map that shows a high point. That’s what they mean by “spot elevation”, or a low point. In other words, that’s the top of a hill, and when it says “spot elevation” that’s just the topographer has picked a point and said this is 439 feet above sea level, and that’s a reference spot. It doesn’t mean they are going to move anything.

President Tornatta: Dave, do you understand that?

David Hellenberg: Yeah.

President Tornatta: Is that clarifying?

David Hellenberg: Yes, it does.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: Then, each of these purple lines is contour lines down from that spot elevation, each one graduates down either two and a half or five feet, depending on what scale the topographer used.

President Tornatta: Do you have any other questions, or any other concerns, as long as those two are addressed?

David Hellenberg: Yeah, as long as the elevation stays the same back here there shouldn’t be a drainage problem.

President Tornatta: Alright.

Bill Jeffers: If there’s a problem, call the County Surveyor’s office and tell me to get on the person that caused the problem.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Until December 31^st.

Bill Jeffers: Wait until December 31, 2012.

President Tornatta: Alright. Anybody else want to comment? Seeing none.

Commissioner Winnecke: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. All in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Okay.

President Tornatta: Do we have a recommendation to approve the annual ditch bids?

Bill Jeffers: Yes, you do, but I need to make a couple of comments.

President Tornatta: Let’s get the motion first.

Bill Jeffers: The sheets are in front of you–

President Tornatta: Hold on. We need a motion.

Bill Jeffers: To?

President Tornatta: To approve the annual–

Commissioner Winnecke: Well, he was going to make a couple of comments first. Didn’t you?

President Tornatta: Oh, were we going to have an amendment then to the–

Bill Jeffers: Well, you voted on the drainage plan, right?

Commissioner Winnecke: Right.

Bill Jeffers: Okay, and then I’m going to present you with the–

President Tornatta: Okay.

Bill Jeffers: –bids. Okay, in front of you is a sheet, page one is on the front, page two is on the back to conserve trees and paper. It has every one of the ditches on which we received a bid. What you see is the lowest, responsive, responsible bidder in each instance. There was one low bid that was thrown out due to a submittal that did not conform to the specifications and the instructions that were sent out with the bid invitations. It would have prevented us from completing the project in the manner in which we proposed to complete the project. So, that was not a responsive bid and we cast it out. In all other cases, we did have three mathematical errors that Linda Freeman corrected, one was close to four dollars, and one was an error of five cents. In each case the correction caused the county to let a bid for a lower amount than what was submitted. So, the County Surveyor recommends approval of the bids as shown on the schedule that’s presented to you.

Commissioner Winnecke: So moved.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. All in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Okay.

President Tornatta: How about some claims?

Bill Jeffers: I have an envelope of claims....I think there’s only one claim, it’s in order and it’s on your desk, and the County Surveyor recommends approval.

President Tornatta: Okay. Any other business at this time?

Commissioner Winnecke: So moved on the claim.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

Bill Jeffers: We’ve got another 15 minutes on camera.

President Tornatta: Motion...no, we don’t. Motion and a claim–

Brenda Jeffers: He’s got to be somewhere, Bill.

President Tornatta: –a motion and a second on the claim. All in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Any other business to the Drainage Board?

Commissioner Winnecke: Ask Mike. Mike, do you want to say anything?

Mike Mahan: No.

President Tornatta: No? Because that’s the only public for public comment. Linda?

Bill Jeffers: Thank you for your patience tonight.

President Tornatta: Sure, with that being said, we’re going to wrap it up. Motion to adjourn?

Commissioner Winnecke: So moved.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

(The meeting was adjourned at 7:15 p.m.)

Those in Attendance:

Troy Tornatta                            Stephen Melcher                      Lloyd Winnecke

Bill Jeffers                                 Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.          Madelyn Grayson

Brenda Jeffers                          David Hellenberg                      Others Unidentified

Members of Media

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

DRAINAGE BOARD

Troy Tornatta, President

Stephen Melcher, Vice President

Lloyd Winnecke, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)