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2003 Final Budget Meeting September 4, 2002
The Vanderburgh County Council met in session this 4th day of September, 2002 in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex. The meeting was officially opened by President Lloyd Winnecke at 12:01 p.m. President Winnecke: Good afternoon.
I'd like to call to order the final 2003 budget hearing. We'll start with
the attendance roll call please.
President Winnecke: Would you please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance? (Pledge of Allegiance was given) President Winnecke: This is the final
budget hearing and the purpose is to complete the adoption of our budget
and establish salaries and all employee benefits, and also recommend to
the state about our proposed tax rate. I'll recognize the Finance Chairman,
Mr. Raben, here in a minute to begin our work, but I think it's really
important to know, someone asked me yesterday what I felt the most important
thing to come out of this budget was. And my answer was, it was easy to
come up with an answer, I think the most important thing to come from this
budget process is that this has been a truly bipartisan effort. Republicans
and Democrats have worked side by side spending long nights and weekends
working for the betterment of this county. And I think that's the best
thing that's come of this and I applaud everyone. Everyone has contributed
and it has truly been a team effort. And I thank everyone for their hard
work. And with that, I will turn it over to the Finance Chairman, Mr. Raben.
Councilmember Raben: Okay, Mr. President, first we're going to - I'm going to make a motion that all full-time county employees receive a three percent raise for the year 2003 as listed in the 2003 Salary Ordinance for all salaries in accordance with the County Salary Ordinance. And all Airport Authority employees and Convention & Visitors Bureau employees receive a three percent raise for year 2003. I'll make that in the form of a motion. Councilmember Hoy: Second. President Winnecke: Everyone wants to second that one. Any discussion? Roll call vote please. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta? Councilmember Tornatta: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier? Councilmember Bassemier: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben? Councilmember Raben: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: Yes. Teri Lukeman: President Winnecke? President Winnecke: Yes. (Motion unanimously approved 7-0)
Councilmember Raben: Okay, Mr. President, next I'll move that Exhibit A through H - no, let me move on to something else, first. All Councilmembers have an Exhibit List A, which is all the title changes, salary changes, things of that nature. So, first I would like to move that the Salary Ordinance be approved with the corrected list and all FICA and PERF be adjusted accordingly, and would ask that this list be made part of our minutes if everyone is comfortable with that. Councilmember Hoy: Second. President Winnecke: There's a motion and a second. Discussions or questions? Very well, roll call vote. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta? Councilmember Tornatta: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier? Councilmember Bassemier: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben? Councilmember Raben: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: Yes Teri Lukeman: President Winnecke? President Winnecke: Yes. (Motion unanimously approved 7-0)
Councilmember Raben: Okay, next, Mr. President, we all have a copy of the 2003 Salary Ordinance manual and I will move that Exhibit A through H be approved as listed in the 2003 Salary Ordinance and with that, that all corrections that we've just approved be part of this motion, too. Councilmember Wortman: Second. President Winnecke: Motion and a second. Questions or discussion? Councilmember Sutton: Which includes the three percent in there? Councilmember Raben: Right. Councilmember Sutton: Okay. President Winnecke: Roll call vote please. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta? Councilmember Tornatta: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier? Councilmember Bassemier: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben? Councilmember Raben: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: Yes. Teri Lukeman: President Winnecke? President Winnecke: Yes. (Motion unanimously approved 7-0)
Councilmember Raben: Okay, next as everybody recalls, at our last - our final week of the actual budget hearings there were cuts made and cuts set in that last week. Then we all took the opportunity to seek out additional cuts in an effort to reach our targeted five million dollars in cuts. With that, and this list is Item B, okay, with this is a list of all the cuts that everyone has come to the table with. And again, rather than read five pages of cuts, I'm going to move that this also be made part of the minutes and make that in the form of a motion. Councilmember Wortman: Second. President Winnecke: There's a motion and a second. Questions or discussion? Yes, Mr. Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: In that motion, would you list the total of the cuts? President Winnecke: Absolutely, that's a good point. Councilmember Raben: I would be glad to do that. With these additional cuts and all the cuts that we presented a few weeks ago, the total General Fund cuts are $5,025,686. Councilmember Tornatta: Will we need to set in the Clerk IV-D 1011-3603? There's not a fund for that. We'd have to set that in. Will we have to do that before this could be passed? Councilmember Raben: If there is not a line in place on that, yes, we will. And thank you for correcting me on that. Councilmember Tornatta: That's Record Storage. Councilmember Raben: Let me strike that line from this motion, okay? I'll remove that line from this motion and we'll come back to that one. President Winnecke: That would be Clerk IV-D, account number 1011-3603 Record Storage? Councilmember Raben: Yes. President Winnecke: Okay. And who made that second? Councilmember Wortman: I did. President Winnecke: Mr. Wortman, is that alright with you? Councilmember Wortman: Yes. President Winnecke: Okay, other questions or discussion? Roll call vote please. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta? Councilmember Tornatta: Yeah, I'd just like to interject, since we're kind of finalizing the budget here, just make a quick statement. Over the course of the last 37 days I have seen the gallery of challenges before Vanderburgh County. A tough financial picture has been painted, programs have been carved, budgets have been sculpted, and that's all artfully speaking. I vote yes to this 2003 budget and what cuts we've made, although, I'm letting my vote in the prior budget hearing speak for itself. My disapproval of some of the budgets, and I think we know where those lie. But in order to compromise, I do like some of the things that we've done, and President Winnecke has hit the motion about the communication between the Councilmembers, which was, I believe, was lacking last year. I still believe there needs to be better communication between the Commissioners, and I believe its forced, at best. We have put the Commissioners at the mercy of the Council to provide service to the county without a clear direction of what we want, not taking into consideration what they want. However, I do feel proud of the move toward more officeholders and directors' involvement to the budget interests. Without this collective effort, we could not have cut nearly five million dollars from an already flat budget. I also feel satisfied with the most important part of this equation: the employees of Vanderburgh County did not have to sacrifice their raises in order the float the budget. So I think we all did a fine job there. But I do caution officeholders and directors to hold the line on your budgets because money is going to be tight. I also believe the Council over the next year, must address financial commitments toward Community Corrections, Juvenile Detention and Local Roads & Streets projects. All three are vital community services and vital to our community. All three need the commitment of this Council. And I vote yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier? Councilmember Bassemier: I didn't know we was giving speeches like Troy Tornatta just gave, but I thought last year that we all worked together as a team also. In fact, there were comments from both sides that we all worked together. So just because you didn't understand it last year, being President, I feel like you were informed, sat down one day with you for over three hours. So just want to let you know, I don't think that's true, what you just said. We all did work together last year. My vote is yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben? Councilmember Raben: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: Yes. Teri Lukeman: President Winnecke? President Winnecke: Yes. (Motion unanimously approved 7-0)
CLERK IV-D Councilmember Raben: Okay, Mr. President, Clerk IV-D, which is account 1011-3603 Record Storage be set in at $9,000. I'll make that in the form of a motion. Councilmember Wortman: Second. President Winnecke: Motion and a second. Questions or discussion? Roll call vote please. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta? Councilmember Tornatta: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier? Councilmember Bassemier: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben? Councilmember Raben: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: Yes. Teri Lukeman: President Winnecke? President Winnecke: Yes. CLERK IV-D
(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)
Councilmember Raben: Okay, next I'll move that all 2000, 3000 and 4000 accounts for the 2003 budget be adopted as previously approved for the following - and I need to read these for the record: Airport Authority, Area Plan, Armstrong Assessor, Armstrong Reassessment, Assessor/Reassessment, Assessor, County Auditor, Auditor/Reassess-ment, Bond Issue, Burdette Park, Center Assessor, Center Assessor/Reassessment, Circuit Court, Circuit Court Supplemental Adult Probation, Clerk, Clerk IV-D, Sheriff Community Corrections, Convention Center Operating Fund, Convention & Visitors Bureau, Co-op Extension, Coroner, County Commissioners, County Commissioners/CCD, County Council, Cum Bridge, Drainage Board, Drug & Alcohol Deferral, Election Office, Family & Children, German Assessor, German Assessor/Reassessment, Health Department, County Highway, Jail, Knight Assessor, Knight Assessor/Reassessment, Legal Aid, Legal Aid/United Way, Levee Distribution Tax, Local Drug Free Community, Local Emergency Planning Committee, Local Roads & Streets, Perry Assessor, Perry/Reassessment, Pigeon Assessor, Pigeon/Reassessment, Property Tax Assessment Board of Appeals, Property Tax Assessment Board of Appeals/Reassessment, Prosecutor, Prosecutor IV-D, Prosecutor Check Recovery, Prosecutor Drug Law Enforcement, Prosecutor Victim & Witness Assistance Program, Prosecutor Stop Domestic Violence, Prosecutor Adult Protection Services, Prosecutor Pre-Trial Diversion, Public Defenders Commission, Recorder, Riverboat, Sales Disclosure, Scott Assessor, Scott Assessor/Reassessment, Sheriff, Sheriff Misdemeanor Housing, Sheriff VCCC Misdemeanor Offender, Superior Court, Superior Court Supplemental Adult Probation, Superintendent of County Buildings, Surveyor, Surveyor Maps, Surveyor Corner Perpetuation Fund, Centre, Tourism Capital Improvement, Treasurer, Union Assessor, Union Assessor/Reassessment, Veterans Administration, Voters Registration, Weights & Measures, 911 Emergency and Prosecutor Community Gun Violence and Superior Drug Court. Mr. President, I make that in the form of a motion. Councilmember Wortman: Second. President Winnecke: Motion and a second. Questions or discussion? Roll call vote please. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta? Councilmember Tornatta: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier? Councilmember Bassemier: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben? Councilmember Raben: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: Yes. Teri Lukeman: President Winnecke? President Winnecke: Yes. (Motion unanimously approved 7-0)
Councilmember Raben: Okay, all Councilmembers have been given a copy of the final insurance data, so I'm going to move that the Council approve the 2003 insurance budget as listed. These figures represent the county's share, the share of the county's three current health plans with the total employee contribution of the existing eight percent. So I make that in the form of a motion. Councilmember Wortman: Second. President Winnecke: There's a motion and a second. Questions or discussion? Roll call vote please. Teri Lukeman: Would you like those to also be made a part of the record, Mr. Raben? Councilmember Raben: Yes, excuse me. I would also ask that those be made part of the record. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta? Councilmember Tornatta: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier? Councilmember Bassemier: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben? Councilmember Raben: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: Yes. Teri Lukeman: President Winnecke? President Winnecke: Yes. (Motion unanimously approved 7-0)
Councilmember Raben: Okay, we're nearing conclusion here, Mr. President. And then I would also move - before you, you have a listing of all of our different levies, okay, and so due to the uncertainty of reassessment, we need to set these rates for the following funds with the levies to be adjusted by the state after the assessed valuation is certified. I would also move that these be made part of our minutes and we need to set the levies for the following funds with the rates to be adjusted by the state after the assessed valuation is certified. I just wanted to bring that to everyone's attention again. And then I would also move that we set in one million dollars COIT in Local Roads & Streets, $480,000 for the USI bond, $130,000 for the Azteca bond, $95,000 for the Vanderburgh County Industrial Park bond, and the remainder going into the general fund. I make that in the form of a motion. Councilmember Wortman: Second. President Winnecke: There's a motion and a second. Questions or discussion? Roll call vote please. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta? Councilmember Tornatta: No. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: No. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier? Councilmember Bassemier: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: Well, I'm going to compromise with these because I have no choice, but that's part of the art of politics. If I could vote no on Azteca, I would, because they haven't met their employment goal, but it's part of the package and I vote yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben? Councilmember Raben: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: Yes. Teri Lukeman: President Winnecke? President Winnecke: Yes. (Motion carried 5-2/Councilmembers Tornatta & Sutton opposed) Councilmember Raben: Okay, Mr. President, that really concludes all the business that we have before us in terms of finalizing this budget. I know a few gentlemen here have taken the opportunity to editorialize, which I'm not going to do that, but I would like to echo some of the comments made by the other members here today, and that, you know, this really has been a great budget process. I mean, every person sitting up here worked their fannies off to accomplish one thing, and that's to make the appropriate cuts and allow the opportunity for every department and elected official to have a fully funded budget. Some of them are a little bit tight, but you know, that basically makes a pretty bold statement from this body that hey, times are a little tough right now and make the best of it and live within your means and with these cuts that are a little deeper than normal. You know, we don't want to send the signal to anybody to come back. I mean, we expect this budget to hold out for as long as possible. And you know, once again, I thank everybody sitting up here for the efforts that they made. It has been a collaborated effort. I'd like to thank the departments and offices that came back to us and made additional cuts in their budgets. I hate to start listing those departments because sure to God I'll leave somebody out and hurt somebody's feelings, but, you know, it was remarkable the effort that was made in the last few days and thank everybody. President Winnecke: Mr. Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: I would echo that and I personally want to thank the departments to which I'm related as liaison. They all came forward with cuts on their own. I didn't have to do arm twisting except a little bit in one case and that wasn't real bad. Nobody was screaming. And we've done this before. But we have two employees that exemplify the best in dedication to their jobs and to this county, and that's our Executive Assistant, Sandie Deig, and Sarah Nunn, and I would also add a thanks to the Auditor and to Teri Lukeman, you know, for your work, too, but I know that there was work done over the - completely over the holiday weekend by those two people and I appreciate it. President Winnecke: Mr. Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: I just want to add that, you know, it's very easy to make decisions when times are good and when prosperous and everything seems to be going your way and everything is downhill, but when you have an uphill struggle and things are much more difficult, you begin to see how difficult your job may or your situation may actually become. And who is willing to step up to the plate, and there's been so many people throughout county government who have stepped up during this period which we've all recognized as a very difficult time, they stepped up to do the extra amount to get us where we needed to go. I think we've put the call out some time ago that this was not going to be the same year that we had last year nor the year before and I don't think I could count on one hand the number of - there were so few people who actually even complained about it because I think everyone recognized that it was something that we were all in the same seat. Though the seven of us sitting before this Council and we're making the decisions, but the decisions are really something that we - I think this Council has done a great job in getting the input from a lot of people to make this process a lot less painless than it could have potentially have been and we hope that next year will be a better year than this year was, but we can't promise you that. But one thing for sure, I think that the health of Vanderburgh County has been secure and we're probably in much better shape than probably the state overall, and some of our neighboring counties. So I'd just like to tip my hat to all those who have been involved in this process and, you know, a lot of good things have been said about the whole - the working relationship and I think it's something that we need to - I think we learned a lot this year and need to continue that next year. President Winnecke: I think I made my comments at the beginning, but I think Councilman Tornatta raises a good point and since this has gone by pretty quickly, I thought we'd go ahead and open this up for some discussion now, but the Commissioners have asked for some direction from this body as to what level of funding we would be comfortable with in terms of Community Corrections. I think now that the budget process is complete, it's a prudent time to examine that and discuss that, and I'd be willing to open the floor to any Councilmembers who may have an opinion as to that. Councilmember Hoy: Well, as a board member with Community Corrections, I've seen the correspondence from the state. I would like to see a little sharper commitment on the state's part as to what they are willing to do. Presently, it looks like 125 beds and we are, as a board, going to have a consultant in, Dr. Ed Latessa from the University of Cincinnati. And I think he probably will represent to us what the state is interested in, in Community Corrections and I'm hoping that our board will be open to what he has to say to us. He has no connections with any firm, you know, that would sell us services or build buildings or anything like that, so he's real clean in that respect, and that's good. I think we'll be finding that out and its important that the board respond. Commissioner Mourdock has sent us a communication, as you well know, Mr. President. I think we need to look at that and see what we want to commit to. But it is time to move ahead. I quite agree. President Winnecke: Mr. Tornatta? Councilmember Tornatta: Yeah, I think one of the things that the Community Corrections and the direction from the Commission seems to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 beds. If this is the case, then we want to look at those numbers - and I say 250, probably between 225 and 250. One of the places I thought that we could evaluate, look at some extra funds, we got 3.8 from the COIT Windfall. We put 2.7 back from that into our jail project, which should leave us somewhere in the range of 1.1 million dollars that we can right now say that we could put toward this Community Corrections project. Now that's a start. We can always add to that where we could see fit, but with the COIT Windfall one time chance, and we talked about it before, that we could come in and put that money toward the Community Correction project. Get that boost, get the state involved because we're showing we have commitment, and make the whole thing work. I think the problem with the state is they don't see much of a commitment between the Commission and the Council and so they see it as just starting to drop the ball. We want to pick that ball back up and show that we have support with this project and I think that's a good start. President Winnecke: Mr. Hoy and then Mr. Raben. Councilmember Hoy: I don't want to drag this out too long. My communication with the state, DOC, has been that they would like to see some change in our program and I think that needs to be addressed. There are some new ideas, some of them aren't too new, they've been tried other places. One example, locally, and we've been the leader in this is with the Drug Court. That program is being studied by the whole state, where you don't have people housed and in a facility. You have them housed in a program where they have to report every day. It's a pretty stiff program, seems to be working. We'll know more, you know, as we go through. But that particular program, I think the state is sending a message to us and we need to listen to that. We have the largest number of beds of any community corrections facility in the state and yet we are in population the seventh largest county. Maybe because we're progressive, maybe because we're using it too much. I don't know. I think with the state, they're going to probably require some kind of compromise as they put money into it. That's the message that I'm getting. So that's why I say we need to sharpen communication. I agree with Mr. Tornatta that we need better communication between this body and the Commissioners. That is a two-way street. I recall voting quite large sums of money for Lynch Road, and I recall not being invited to the ribbon cutting. As a Councilman, I don't think anybody sitting around this table was invited. In my ten years here that's the first time that's happened. That does not enhance communication and I know that's a negative note, but I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way sitting around this table. You know, that's been a cooperative effort, and right now we don't have the money to extend it to Warrick County. The money is simply not there. We're not trying to be obstinate about a road, we just don't have the money. But with Community Corrections, I think its time to move ahead. But the state has a message for us. President Winnecke: Mr. Raben? Councilmember Raben: Well, I've got my own list of things I could probably say on this subject. First of all, I think - having this conversation right now is maybe poor timing in light of the current financial situation throughout the state. I think it's hard for us to really address this issue. I mean, we're looking at building a new jail that no one knows where we're at through that process yet. I don't know how all this gets cluttered together, that's what I'm trying to say. I might address a few things. Troy had mentioned spending down some of our set aside money. If you all recall, about a year and a half ago or slightly longer, when Baker & Daniels were here and applauded this Council for having those monies set aside and what a wonderful thing that could do in terms of paying off the capitalized interest and a lot of the up front costs, which you know, we've already seen some of that leave the coffer to pay for those up front costs. I think it would be foolish of us, if not you know, reckless of us to look at spending from that fund for any other purpose. But, you know, Mr. President, I would say just hitting the Community Corrections issue on the forehead, I would say that DOC has made it known that they would either pay 50% of new construction of 100% of remodeling. I would say let's do nothing but look at remodeling. Find that building remodeled, and let's remodel it. In terms of the size, you know, I think 200 is too large. It is the largest program of its kind in the state. We're the 5th largest community, so I don't see why we would need to increase the size any. But along with that, I think simply renovations or new construction is still not enough for the state. I mean, I would recommend that we, as a body, would possibly pass a resolution stating that we want, you know, that we're interested in looking at it from the standpoint of renovation and that this county would match dollar for dollar up to say a million dollars towards the operational cost. You know, that would be a pretty substantial savings, you know, probably a million dollars savings to this county annually, and Lord knows, you know, Judge Niemeier's program could use that extra million dollars. And I think everyone here, including the Commissioners, are probably as concerned about the juvenile aspect as anybody. So, Mr. President, that's all I've got to say at this point. President Winnecke: Mr. Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: I think the state has been pretty clear. I think they're talking about - you know, we've heard all this bouncing around about this match that they would be interested in moving forward with this project. But I think what they have in mind is maybe something a little bit different than maybe what I'm either hearing here today or maybe what we're doing. I believe that the state is wanting us to look from a regional standpoint, rather than just a county facility, which imposes some different parameters into this whole equation. I think if we're going to be effective at this, we need to look beyond just the construction cost on this. The operational costs are going to be extremely important and if we're just thinking along the lines of just Vanderburgh County footing this bill, I think we're being a little short-sighted on what opportunities may exist for us. I think the state, I believe the state is on to the right approach to this. I think it does need to be a regional facility and the surrounding counties that utilize this facility need to pay for it along with Vanderburgh County paying for it. And we can set some caps within that facility that we don't want the number of people from Vanderburgh County to exceed a certain amount. I'm thinking along the range of between 200 and 250 being the maximum that you would have for Vanderburgh County people, but actually have a facility that's larger that will accommodate more than that to accommodate the adjacent counties, so they can also pay for the ongoing costs of this as well. I really don't know, I guess in terms of what we want to do here today, as far as setting in amounts or whether we're throwing out recommendations on size or what we are specifically looking for, but I think we've got a lot more work that can be done on our part and maybe gaining some of the support, even some of our surrounding counties and not just looking for Vanderburgh County to foot this bill. President Winnecke: Mr. Raben? Councilmember Raben: Royce, thank you for those comments. I mean, no one had hit on it from that aspect and you are exactly right. And something else, Mr. President, when we mentioned regional facility, we maybe need a better definition of what that means because its my understanding that those counties, you know, unless you use Warrick County as an example, that those regional beds would be for Vanderburgh County residents that were picked up or arrested in Warrick County. It would not be for Warrick County residents that were picked up in Warrick County to be moved to Vanderburgh County. That's my understanding of what they mean by regional facility, but I think we probably need that better defined. Councilmember Sutton: Well, I guess my thoughts are, if the person is arrested in Pike County or Warrick County or - not arrested, but if they've been adjudicated in those counties, that they could have the use of the facility that's located here in Vanderburgh County, not just a Vanderburgh County resident that happens to get adjudicated someplace else. Councilmember Bassemier: Lloyd? President Winnecke: Mr. Bassemier? Councilmember Bassemier: I was up at that meeting in Indianapolis, Jim, and no, they meant if, Warrick County residents, bring them here in Vanderburgh County as a regional for all four counties. That's the way I took it. Not that you live here in Vanderburgh County, get in trouble, no, they want a facility that will provide for Warrick, Posey, and... Councilmember Raben: And again, I've heard it explained that way, too, but I think, and I don't mean to put our Sheriff on the spot, but I think he is the one that described it as being Vanderburgh County residents in other counties. So, again, and that's more reason to do like I've stated. Let's get a more definite answer on what exactly a regional facility would constitute. Councilmember Hoy: Well, Councilman Sutton and Bassemier are correct, and in conversations with the Commissioners, that's also true and with the board. Presently, and I think I'm correct, the state is looking at 125 beds period. I'm getting a nod from Commissioner Fanello because that's what the letter says. I don't think that's enough, that's one point which we have not resolved. That's not enough for a regional facility at all. I do agree with finding an old - I don't want to find a building that's in the condition that this one is in. Its served us well, I don't want to knock that building because its worked. There's been a lot of complaints about it, but its worked for a long time. But I think its reached the end of its life in working for us. But, my Lord, with all the empty buildings sitting around town that are not in residential areas, not like that one on the west side, on Wabash or near Wabash. I don't want to see us using a building like that. I want to be real clear about that. But there are a number of empty buildings that could be remodeled. That seems to make sense to me and then I think we need to get with the other counties and look at a number that's realistic for the region and take from the state what we can get. I also agree with Mr. Raben, I think we have been penalized as a county for being the pioneer in this program. Other counties get a lot more money back to support community corrections than we do because that's the way the state operates. President Winnecke: Can you tell us more about the consultant that's coming in from the University of Cincinnati or what the goal is and what -- Councilmember Hoy: Well, that's not all that clear. What's clear to me is - this is very clear from DOC, and that is if we're going to work with DOC and have a cooperative relationship with DOC, it's my belief from what has been said to me personally from DOC, that Dr. Latessa represents the best thought in community corrections at this point. He also, I'm sure, represents some change in how we operate and I made the plea to the board that we, as a board, be open to that. We may not agree, but let's hear what this man has to say. And I'm fairly sure he's going to recommend that we strengthen things like Drug Court, you know, and programs like that, that make less use of, you know, somebody living there, alright? And he is recognized as one of the national experts in this field. We've had a lot of consultants and some of our consultants on there very things have been folks - and there's nothing wrong with this, understand, it's business - but they hire here and they hire there and so on. He does not do that. There is a fee, but he is a professor and he has no connection with any company that, you know, wants to sell us anything. I think that's good. I think we listen to him. I think he is going to give us the direction that DOC wants us to consider. Once that's done, then we can say okay, we like what we heard here. We didn't like what we heard here and this is what we're going to do as a county. We don't have to do what the man says, but I think its wise to be open to what the man has to say. And we've got some work to do with the local - we have a good board, we have a board now that is functioning well. The interchanges are good in those board meetings. There's a lot of wisdom there. And I think we have a very capable board that will help us move ahead. And I would view it as a challenge but also a time of opportunity for us to do something and do it very well. President Winnecke: Mr. Tornatta? Teri Lukeman: May I change the tape first? President Winnecke: Yeah. Troy, we need to change the tape. (Tape changed) Councilmember Tornatta: Councilman Raben did clarify what I was talking about. I said there was 3.8 million in the COIT Windfall, of which we put 2.7 aside, which leaves us 1.1 million dollars, okay. So that money would not have come out of the jail set aside, out of the COIT Windfall. And I would like to make a motion to set aside that 1.1 million dollars out of the COIT Windfall and put it in a Community Corrections account. Councilmember Raben: You can't make that motion today. President Winnecke: We haven't advertised. Councilmember Tornatta: For a set aside for that money. I don't think there's any - President Winnecke: Can we legally do that? We haven't advertised the request. Jeff Ahlers: No. It would need to be advertised. Well, the other issue would be, I guess you've already closed - Councilmember Raben: Well, we've not actually closed. And matter of fact, I'm going to reopen something here in a moment. But... Jeff Ahlers: Well, has it been - I don't know what was advertised. Has it been advertised? Suzanne Crouch: No, and that money has been set aside, so it needs to be appropriated by the Council. Councilmember Raben: That's right. That money - Suzanne Crouch: It's in a fund so it needs to be appropriated by the Council. Councilmember Sutton: The 1.1? Suzanne Crouch: We need to advertise, that's correct. Jeff Ahlers: Right, so it would need to be advertised and then you can appropriate it out of that. Suzanne Crouch: Unless you're talking about some of the COIT this year. Councilmember Tornatta: We got the set aside this year. Suzanne Crouch: That's correct and its already been set into a fund, so in order to get money out of that fund, it would have to be appropriated, so we would have to go ahead and advertise that appropriation. Councilmember Tornatta: The COIT set aside is in a fund, it's in a set aside fund? Suzanne Crouch: Correct. President Winnecke: I think on the financial statement, I believe it's the last column. It just says COIT Windfall, I believe. Suzanne Crouch: Right. Councilmember Hoy: What is that figure in that column? I don't have it with me. Suzanne Crouch: It's $1,414,365. Councilmember Hoy: Okay, so it's closer to a million, four. Suzanne Crouch: Correct, 1.4. Councilmember Raben: Okay. Councilmember Sutton: So that 1.4, we haven't at this point in time given any indication of where we wanted to allocate that? Suzanne Crouch: I believe your motion reflected capital improvement projects and infrastructure. President Winnecke: When we received the windfall last year or earlier this year. Councilmember Sutton: Well, that would be a capital improvement. Councilmember Raben: I guess I still have a question. Where does the 1.1 million dollar figure come up? I mean - (Inaudible) Councilmember Raben: No, I understand that, but why - Councilmember Tornatta: It was to my understanding that we got 3.8 in COIT Windfall money. If we set 2.7 aside of the COIT Windfall, that would leave 1.1. Councilmember Raben: And with that, I mean, with that motion are you stating that you would like to see that 1.1 used for new construction? Councilmember Tornatta: I would be interested in seeing it set aside. Now if we decide to do new construction, I mean, I think that's something that we're allowing the decision makers to make that decision. I mean, whether, obviously, it would be the Commission or the Commission and the what the state feels that they want to offer. I'm just trying to throw this out there to put some money to get the ball rolling. And with the COIT Windfall, we have the opportunity to do that. Councilmember Raben: Okay, I guess my next question is, you know, because with new construction, the state right now has stated they're only willing to commit to 50% - President Winnecke: Up to 50%. Councilmember Raben: Up to 50%. I guess, has there been any thought given in where we come up with our 50%? Councilmember Tornatta: I believe that part of the 50% is coming from the money that we're going to set aside for this project. Councilmember Raben: I understand that, but 1.1 million dollars in new construction for Community - a 225 or 250 bed facility that you've stated, 1.1 million dollars isn't a drop in the hat. So where is that other - where are we going to fulfill our other 50% from? Councilmember Tornatta: That's, like I said, this is to get us started with this project. When this facility is going to be built, we've yet to be seen. We want to show what kind of commitment we're willing to go initially. And that's one way of getting the ball rolling. Now, when we see what our finances are in the future, then we can depict where else, what other commitments we want to lay on the line. But I think right now, we show that we do have at least 1.1 and we show 1.4 million dollars that we can set aside in this fund and get the ball rolling. President Winnecke: Mr. Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: Yes, I think we need to remind ourselves of something that I helped to establish a few years ago amidst a great deal of furor, and that is that the body in charge of Community Corrections happens to be the County Commissioners. We're the funding body and I think that, you know, that's where that - I'm not trying to shift blame, but I'm not ready to shift money. I think they, you know, they're going to be looking at how many and how regional and all of that and so if the board, and that's part of the process that needs to go on. It needs to go on expeditiously, although I mean, we could more easily have a holding pattern at the Safe House than we can at the jail. I mean, that's the high pressure project right now. The other high pressure project concerning funds is going to be voting machines. I don't know what that mandate is going to look like. I'm not sure the state, they've said some things about the mandate for voting machines and our County Clerk has reminded us that its going to be tough to get supplies and that's another million and a half we're going to be looking at. We have not - my reluctance right now, I don't want to hold things up, but we could go better with a holding pattern in Community Corrections, it would seem to me than you can with the jail. I said that. And secondly, I think we need to see where our mandates from the state are going to go. And the third things is, according to the projections being made by people who know at the state level, if we think, as a Council, this year has been tough, next year could be tougher. I'm hoping it won't be. But we have not as yet seen how a lot of things are going shake out in terms of what the legislature has done with property taxes and balancing those off with the whole change that's coming in market value assessments. I mean, I think they've made some good guesses, but all the communications I get on that are not real clear. And that's not our fault, as a body. We don't have home rule. And then the legislators, in their wisdom, have laid some more mandates on us. We have a storm water mandate coming next year. And I mentioned this before, but there is a list of things that we've got to look at and so that causes me to be cautious, that's all, about how we proceed. President Winnecke: Mr. Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: I think that the money is sitting there. It's unappropriated and I think let it stay there to see what comes. But we need a plan before we do anything from somebody telling us what to do. So that's what I'm thinking about. President Winnecke: To that end, if I could say something, I think at the risk of starting to be repetitious among ourselves, maybe it would be prudent if I appointed a small committee of myself, Mr. Raben and Mr. Hoy to sit down with either Commissioner Fanello or Commissioner Mosby or Commissioner Mourdock, whomever they select, and the Sheriff, and we can meet prior to our next Personnel & Finance committee meeting. Maybe we can have some healthy dialogue about where they're coming from. The Commissioners have asked that we pass a resolution of funding. I appreciate where Councilman Tornatta is coming from. I don't know that I'm willing or comfortable do to that today even if we could legally. But clearly we're at the point now where we should give additional direction financially. And I think if you gentlemen would be willing to do that, then we can set up a meeting in the next week or so and move that forward. I think that might expedite the process. Mr. Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: What do you guys want to talk about? President Winnecke: About an hour, I hope. Councilmember Sutton: I mean, what do you - I guess I'm trying to get to...you know, what do you guys ultimately want to try to accomplish? President Winnecke: Well, I think we need to answer some of the questions, you know, what's regional? You know, Commissioner Fanello has had discussions with DOC, you know, we just need to get these - make sure everyone understands what the other side is thinking and we need to have a clearer understanding of - I think we certainly have a clear understanding of our finances going forward. We have 1.4 million dollars, is it prudent to spend that or to commit that? My feeling today is probably not. But we need to have some more discussions before we can make that determination. Councilmember Sutton: Well, I think also, maybe a question needs to be answered, what size - if we're just talking about Vanderburgh County, what size of a program are we talking about here? And if we're talking about new construction, if we're talking about as we said earlier, existing facility and rehabbing that. Are we talking about a facility that only addresses certain types of offenses which would potentially narrow down the users of the facility. So, I think maybe any discussion, I guess, in trying to define what it is that we really want - what direction we want to go, I think that's something, those are some questions that have to be answered before we even approach the state or even begin to talk about maybe the dollars. Like I said, just figuring out what it is that we would really like to see. I mean, I think the Community Corrections board has probably been tossing this around for quite some time about what they really want to be as a group and with Phil's active involvement with that, obviously, can give you the input there. But if something could be drawn up or put together that spells out what we want for Vanderburgh County or as a regional center, if that's the case, and I think that will be the starting point for us. President Winnecke: Well spoken. Mr. Raben? Councilmember Raben: I know we've probably talked about this way too much. There was a lot of discussion, again, we got on the subject of size, I thought the letter written by DOC was very clear, that if they did commit to new construction, that they would allow up to 125 beds. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that was made very clear by DOC. So, you know, again, we're cluttering this whole issue when we talk about going above and beyond that. So, you know, the subject is a whole lot deeper than what most of us are realizing it is. I would offer one suggestion and if that changes maybe we can adopt a different resolution. But what we could do between now and our meeting next month, we might ask our counsel to draft maybe three resolutions: a resolution that would be in support of new construction, a resolution that would be in support of renovation, and for someone that may not be interested in doing anything at all, maybe a resolution that states we're not interested in changing a thing. But maybe that way we cover all three bases. Maybe we tentatively plan to prepare three different resolutions while, you know, we'll still meet as a group or as a committee, but you know, we'll have three resolutions ready to pass should we need them, or one out of the three. President Winnecke: Any thoughts? Councilmember Sutton: Well, but again it goes back to what brought about this discussion, anyway. We've got an older building, we've got a program that we probably in many circles agree that's probably too large, a program that's under really good management now and is working well, but feel like there's some areas where we could probably tighten up, so I think that's probably your starting point. Do you want to be smaller or do you want to eliminate it altogether? I think that's really where you start. President Winnecke: I think maybe to your point, Jim, maybe we should - let's meet as a committee first and sort of do some initial data gathering. Take everyone's temperature and then if we're ready to come back with resolutions we can ask Jeff to do that. Councilmember Bassemier: (Inaudible - microphone not turned on) President Winnecke: Yes, Ed, I'm sorry. Councilmember Bassemier: Don't forget the Sheriff on this. He says anything that's involved out there, he wants to be - President Winnecke: I thought I mentioned him. If I didn't, I meant to. Councilmember Sutton: You did. Councilmember Bassemier: Did he? I
didn't hear it. I'm sorry.
REASSESSMENT Councilmember Raben: Allow me just an opportunity. I need to go back in and reopen our approval of the Salary Ordinance. It was brought to my attention that there are some extra help rates that we did not approve for Reassessment, you know, we've not set those Reassessment budgets yet. And those are part of this Salary Ordinance that we just approved, so I need to move that we reopen that. Councilmember Wortman: Second. President Winnecke: Motion and a second. Councilmember Raben: Mr. President, I'm going to make a motion to amend my original motion for the approval of the - Councilmember Hoy: You've got to vote. President Winnecke: We have to vote to reopen. Councilmember Raben: Okay, that's true. President Winnecke: Roll call vote please. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta? Councilmember Tornatta: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier? Councilmember Bassemier: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben? Councilmember Raben: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: Yes. Teri Lukeman: President Winnecke? President Winnecke: Yes. (Motion unanimously approved 7-0) Councilmember Raben: Okay, what was that A through H? Okay, Mr. President, I'm going to move that we amend the original motion for the approval of items A through H of our Salary Ordinance to exclude all Extra Help lines within the Reassessment budgets. Councilmember Wortman: Second. President Winnecke: Motion and a second. Questions or discussion? Councilmember Raben: That covers it, correct? Sandie Deig: No, it's not A through H, it's individual - Councilmember Raben: Okay, alright. Let's just leave out the A through H and exclude all... (Inaudible - several speaking at once) Councilmember Tornatta: It wouldn't be the Reassessment, would it? It would be the regular budgets. Councilmember Raben: Reassessment only. Reassessment. So, again, I'll make this motion one last time. I'm going to move that we strike all Extra Help lines in our Salary Ordinance for Reassessment budgets. Councilmember Wortman: Second. Councilmember Sutton: Wait a minute. When you say strike the line, do you mean to place zero in there or do you mean to totally eliminate the line? Councilmember Raben: Insert zero, set those lines in at zero. Councilmember Sutton: Okay. President Winnecke: Okay, motion and second. Any other questions? Roll call vote please. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta? Councilmember Tornatta: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton? Councilmember Sutton: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier? Councilmember Bassemier: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy? Councilmember Hoy: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben? Councilmember Raben: Yes. Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman? Councilmember Wortman: Yes. Teri Lukeman: President Winnecke? President Winnecke: Yes. REASSESSMENT/AUDITOR
REASSESSMENT/COUNTY ASSESSOR
REASSESSMENT/PROPERTY TAX ASSMT. BOARD OF APPEAL
REASSESSMENT/ARMSTRONG ASSESSOR
REASSESSMENT/CENTER ASSESSOR
REASSESSMENT/GERMAN ASSESSOR
REASSESSMENT/KNIGHT ASSESSOR
REASSESSMENT/PERRY ASSESSOR
REASSESSMENT/PIGEON ASSESSOR
REASSESSMENT/SCOTT ASSESSOR
REASSESSMENT/UNION ASSESSOR
(Motion unanimously approved 7-0) Councilmember Tornatta: Motion to adjourn. Councilmember Wortman: Second President Winnecke: We're adjourned. (Meeting adjourned at 12:58 p.m.)
VANDERBURGH COUNTY COUNCIL _____________________________
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Recorded and transcribed by Teri Lukeman. |
