The Vanderburgh County Council met in special session this 14th day of May in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex to consider and take action upon a request for funding by the Vanderburgh Convention & Visitors Bureau. The meeting was called to order at 8:33 a.m. by Council President Marsha Abell.

President Abell: I’d like to call to order the May 14^th, 2008 meeting of the Vanderburgh County Council. Could we have an attendance roll call, please?

COUNCILMEMBER	PRESENT	ABSENT
Councilmember Sutton	X
Councilmember Leader	X
Councilmember Shetler	X
Councilmember Goebel	X
Councilmember Raben	X
Councilmember Winnecke	X
President Abell	X

President Abell: We are here to consider action on a request for funding by the Vanderburgh Convention & Visitors Bureau for Burdette Park and I will turn the program over to Ms. Fowler and Mr. Vezzoso.

Joe Vezzoso: Good morning, Madam President and Councilmembers. It’s always a pleasure to come before you and we certainly appreciate the fact that you’ve added this special meeting so that we can come back before you and bring this project before you once again. I’d like to just give you a little bit of a brief history on the Tourism Capital Development Fund that was established many, many years ago to give us the ability as a Convention Bureau and also as a county, to help and assist different projects, capital projects, within our community that increases tourism. Over the years, we’ve done the Pagoda and many of you can remember years ago prior to us taking over that piece of property, it was very – it was a huge eyesore on our community. And now, if you look at the Museum campus and the Pagoda and our efforts there and moving the transportation station, rebuilding that on the other end of the Museum, it is certainly a huge asset to our community. We’ve helped assist at the Reitz Home. We’ve certainly assisted at the Goebel Soccer Complex. The transportation station for the Museum, African-American Museum, the LST, 4-H Center, we did roads and some paving out there for parking for the Frog Follies. And then we also assisted with the purchase of property out at Burdette Park earlier in the year to add some acreage to the park. Tourism Capital Development is an easy fund because it’s funded through Innkeepers Tax. People that stay in our hotels/motels, camping areas pay into our Tourism Capital Development. We always look at projects and we, as a bureau, look at them and we say, okay, does this help increase tourism in Vanderburgh County? And if the answer is yes, then we will proceed with that project, and depending on the dollars requested, then we look at the number of room nights that it could generate, how much tax revenue it’s going to generate over the next few years, to determine if it’s a project that we want to bring before the County Council. Two years ago, we brought in a gentleman out of Cincinnati to do a review of our sports complexes in Vanderburgh County. And when we received that report back, one of the areas that he had focused in on was the BMX project out at Burdette Park. Prior to that time, to be very honest with you, I didn’t even realize what BMX was or that it was at Burdette Park, and so the BMX folks invited me to come out and take a look at their facility, which I did. And I felt that they needed some assistance, so in our report it was indicated that with a little assistance out there, that the gentleman that did the report for us thought that we could have additional events at that venue that would bring additional room nights into Vanderburgh County. If you haven’t been out to Burdette Park recently and if you haven’t seen the BMX facility the way it is today, I would encourage you to go out to Burdette Park and take a look at that facility. When BMX came to us and wanted to rehab the concession area, also registration area, add additional lighting to the BMX track, we felt that it was a good project. We normally, as a bureau, don’t get into the bidding process because it’s actually a non-profit that’s coming to us, asking us for the funding and then we come to you all and ask for appropriation of those fundings. It’s really a project that belongs to them. In this particular case, it’s a little different in that it’s a county-owned property and I think that there is a lease there that the BMX folks who are all volunteers and the money generated, they actually, put back into their cause of attracting people to come to Vanderburgh County and use the BMX track. I also didn’t realize that BMX is from this high to my height – not me particularly, because I’d be a little heavy to get on a bike, I think, and run around the track – but there is from children to adults that do the BMX racing. It is going to become an Olympic sport this year, so it’s even going to be higher in the minds of youth as to the BMX tracks and how they can get out there and make use of the facility. We felt that it was a great project. I think that maybe we were remiss as a bureau in that we did not assist BMX with preparing the necessary paperwork to send before the County Council. We have done that now and I think that you all have received that. In the original documentation, I think that they had indicated to you all that we wanted to do a loan, which was an inappropriate way to come before you all. What we have now presented to you for your consideration is a transfer of funds that have already been appropriated, that would make funds available for this project. And the reason that we can do that this year is, you know, we came before you earlier in the year about out baseball complex, baseball/softball complex, and that’s kind of been put on hold for a little while. Hopefully, before the end of the year we’re going to come back before you and bring you some more sites and let you know where we stand on that project. But we had appropriated this year, I think, a little in excess of $470,000 to begin some design work on that project. Well, since we’re not able to do that, we can take those funds and transfer them over for this particular project. We also need to transfer some of the money that has been previously approved for the zoo project so that we can use it in this short-term gap. Later in the year as we see revenues flow into that account, then we’re going to come back to you and ask for an additional appropriation to refund the Mesker Park. So I think the appropriation out of the Mesker Park request is $82,000, so at some point before the end of the year, we’re going to have to come back to you all as we see that revenue stream come in and ask for another appropriation to refund the Mesker Park Zoo project. I was asked by one of the County Councilmembers earlier if I supported this project and I can tell you that, again, I didn’t know anything about BMX. I do think it’s a great project, I think it’s going to improve the looks of Burdette Park up on the top of that hill. I think it will see increased usage, and because they have selected the Kunkel Group to do the design work, Kunkel also did the design work on the O’Day center, so the two buildings will really blend in well together, so I think it’s a great project and I would wholeheartedly request your support in the transfer of these funds to make this project successful. So I’ll let Marilee finish up. It’s always a pleasure to come before you folks so early in the morning.

Marilee Fowler: I didn’t know what I could add other than, if you have questions from this information you’ve received?

Councilmember Goebel: I don’t know if necessarily I have a question for Marilee, but maybe someone from the Burdette Park BMX?

Councilmember Goebel: Good morning, Angela. First of all, congratulations on the history of Burdette Park BMX, another wholesome activity you’ve brought to our county, and certainly it’s successful, and we appreciate the events that you host and the good things that come from your organization. The question I have directly is, your tournament schedule is set for this year, correct? So regardless of what happens at BMX, there’s not going to be any change in tournament plans?

Angie Almond: We can add more races in....we, you know, we can add some more races into that. We might be able to add some more state races or, you know, some other big events to bring people in for the weekend. But the big tournaments have been set for this year.

Councilmember Goebel: Right, and you’re going to be bidding for additional tournaments in the future?

Angie Almond: Yes, we have already submitted one for next June, which would be a pro race, which brings all the pros from all around the world. And we had that three years ago, I think.

Councilmember Goebel: I guess you know what my questions are leading to. If things are set for this year already and there’s not going to be any change as far as bringing in national or pro, I did visit your site and I want to compliment, again, BMX for the great track you have and, obviously, the work that’s been done. You can see countless hours have been spent out there and Steve showed me around. I had seen it before, actually, but from a distance, and I got a firsthand view. But I think, maybe, if the schedule is not going to change, and we do have a proposal that may be a bit more palatable to everyone as far as spending those kinds of dollars on a building, can we take some time and look over the building costs? And then also allow you to have time to apply for more national-type tournaments.

Angie Almond: As far as getting any more this season, up until the grands, they’re probably will not be any more bigger – I mean, we can have local races and we can have other races, but not as far as a national for this year. This schedule has been set. We would really like to have something done. Our building is just dilapidated. The electric is bad, the building is falling apart and that’s why, you know, we’ve asked for this for the last couple of years. This is my co-director, Chris Skelton.

Chris Skelton: I’m the co-director this year helping Angie. And I was a little late this morning, I apologize about that. The main focus seems to be on the building, which is true, but also the $407,000 is going to contribute to new lighting, new bleachers, and these are very important, as well, for the track, not only the building, so the lighting is so old, it’s practically dangerous right now.

Councilmember Goebel: I think, you know, to have the tournament and the facility itself, obviously, you need more bleachers, the lighting, the tower, those kind of things look like, to me, something that we might be able to work out and we may not have to decide today but still get those items finished before you have your big tournaments. The real reservation I have is the building itself, like you said, as far as what you have done and what you might be able to bring in, I think, for the people who are going to watch and for you to judge your tournaments. That’s pretty obvious, the need is there. And there is another building or use of building, I think, is pretty obvious, as well. You have no restrooms on site, inside and things like that, we definitely want to address that. But I think my feeling is, if we put some bleachers or help you work around getting the track where you want it for people who can – two to four and five thousand people, I think, – what’s the estimate as far as spectators?

Angie Almond: Yes, they are. On a national, yes, they are. And that’s why our concession stand, it’s so old that it can’t even adequately, you know, help everybody that comes. On race weekends, on the national weekends, everybody is there from Thursday till Sunday afternoon – Sunday evening. And it’s non-stop. It’s practice, race, everything. It’s non-stop.

Councilmember Goebel: I understand, and once again, you’re to be congratulated. Have there been any pedestrian injuries with the – I’m just kidding.

Angie Almond: No, I don’t think pedestrian, but maybe a couple bicycle riders.

Councilmember Goebel: Okay, well, I think that’s basically my thoughts on it that if we didn’t have to move so quickly, maybe get a better feel as far as the actual building itself, realizing that maybe some things can be done between now and August, I think, was the date that you wanted. Still some construction and definitely the bleachers, but maybe think a little bit more on the building. Thank you.

Councilmember Sutton: Yeah, I want to ask actually Councilman Goebel a question on his question. When you’re talking about the building itself, is your thought that the building – are you looking for more planning in the building? Can you give us maybe a little bit more explanation, maybe what your thoughts are on the timetable, the use of the buildings, what are you kind of thinking there? As was reported last week, Mr. Kunkel said they need to work on this right away and have it – that’s why the immediacy of last week’s request, to have the building in place for August. I don’t know what that date was, 2^nd or so. And talking with Mr. Craig, if we build a building outside the fenced area, it would have to be handicap accessible. I don’t know, I think it would have to be inside the fenced area also. My big question about that building, as proposed, it’s a beautiful proposal, but maybe other groups having access, and I think with the fenced area and things like that, it’s going to be difficult for any other groups to use it. And definitely, you need a place that you can call home out there. So my question is, multi-purpose use as opposed to a single group use.

Councilmember Leader: My question – good morning. My question is, I, like Mr. Goebel, do not have anything to say except positive comments on the track, renovating the track, the lighting, and the bleachers, and that kind of thing. I think that’s a given. My concern is the expense for the building itself. And I understand that your concessions are in kind of a shambles, I guess, and you have no restroom facilities. You’ve been using port-a-potties and that kind of thing, and I also understand from Mr. Craig that we have, and from Mr. Raben, that the shelter house across the road from BMX is typically rented all the time. So my question is this, in light of the fact that the building itself is $307,000, is there a way, and I guess this is to Mr. Kunkel and to the two of you, is there a way to come back to us at our June 4^th meeting with a renovated drawing that indicates new concession stand and restrooms with the hope that in the future we can add the rest of the building around that? Because I think it’s a financial issue for me.

Chris Skelton: I would like to add that also within that building, it’s a fairly large building, but that we also have registration. And this is a main concern, as well. Right now, we have two buildings: one for registration, one for concessions. They’re both on their last leg. And when we register riders, especially for a major event, we have hundreds of people that need to be registered. So within that building, it’s fairly large, but you have to consider, half of it’s registration, half of it’s concessions. Then we have a small storage area for shovels and yard tools, and then a fair sized meeting room upstairs with the overlook balcony. So not only concessions. So, thank you.

Councilmember Leader: I understand that. A major concern to me is restrooms, as well, and I don’t see why you couldn’t incorporate a registration area. My concern is the $307,000 building when we – I mean, I have a lot of confidence in Mr. Vezzoso, but the future of, you know, where we’re going to have to spend some other monies and I think as we go ahead, if a drawing could be created that can incorporate the rest of the building sometime in the future, and when we see, you know what you have facing you, Mr. Vezzoso, and we’re aware of some of those things, as well. We’ve already had to transfer money from the Zoo, earlier, that was in the softball project, now we’re transferring money from the Zoo, perhaps, into this project. I’m just concerned about cash flow, frankly, and if there’s some measure we could take now that would allow us then to add that building perhaps next spring or whatever that is, as we see the cash flow situation of the Convention & Visitors Bureau. That’s where I am.

Joe Vezzoso: In reference to the building, Ms. Leader, I think that the issue is, it’s just, the current design of that building is on the ground level, or the restrooms, the concession stand, and registration, it’s all one building, and then the second floor is some meeting space and training rooms. So it’s, actually, would be somewhat difficult, I think, to do just the lower level and then come back in later and put the second level up on it.

Councilmember Leader: Well, I think, certainly, that’s true in any given design, I guess, my comment is, we can create a new design. I mean, I know, at Mead Johnson, we built our new building with adding that next floor in mind and did so.

Joe Vezzoso: Right, I think that, you know, to your point, if you want to go back and redesign, they certainly could do that. As we all know, and we all have read the paper, this revenue stream that is available to us through the Innkeeper’s Tax is being sought after for other projects in our community. And I can tell you that once those other projects come on line, this revenue stream is going to dry up. We, as a bureau, hope to maintain a small reserve so that as we go into future years, that we’re going to be able to assist with some of the smaller projects. But unless we take positive looks at some of these projects that we have, this small time, this window that’s opened up to us, once we get our softball complex on board and other projects that have been mentioned in the paper, the revenue stream on this is going to really kind of go away for all of us except for a very small amount of money that will be available as we move forward. So that would be my only concern with the project. You know, we, as a bureau, I mean, we don’t get into the design side of this. We see the functionality of it. You know, do I think it’s worth $307,000? I, personally, haven’t sat down with the architect and said, whatever, – we don’t view that as our duty. Our duty is to say well, it looks like a good project. We feel that $407,000, they’re going add lights, they’re going to put restrooms there, all those things, and we don’t want to get into – just like on other projects, we have never got into that portion on it when they come before us. The only thing that we have ever done as a bureau, we have requested in some cases, that we be furnished copies of bills and then we, at times, have written the checks so that we make sure where the money is going so that there are no liens against those buildings and things like that.

Councilmember Leader: Well, please don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying the building is not worth $307,000.

Ben Kunkel: I might add for you, too, that there’s talk of doing these things in phases, the lighting project, the building project, the restroom project, all those costs would escalate because of those multiple phases. You’re going to have three superintendents on a job, you’re going to have general contractors three separate times. So keep that in mind, as well.

Councilmember Shetler: Yeah, I’m also concerned a little bit about the cash flow. I’m kind of concerned about that from the other angle. Am I reading these numbers correctly where it said something like the expected revenue from, and I’m assuming that that might be like the gross amount that’s expected to be spent, like $86 –

Councilmember Shetler: I haven’t found it, yet, but it’s like $86 a day and then you figure out the fiscal impact, and that was like 150,000 plus per year or for the year of ‘07. Is that correct? I know I saw it in here somewhere.

Marilee Fowler: It’s right in front. It’s the, yeah, the calendar. It’s the very first page. This figure is what we calculate when we have people here for sporting events. And that figure incorporates not only the participant but in many cases, for children. It includes mom, dad, maybe brother, sister, so that’s $86 per day that we figure they spend while they’re in Vanderburgh County. And then you can see, based on the events that they’re going to be having, the number of attendees and what we anticipate the expenditure will be. And then that next paragraph, that includes what the expenditures have been since 2005.

Councilmember Sutton: Well, okay, my point is, I mean, not to say that that’s any small amount of money, that half a million dollars since ‘05, but what the Convention & Visitors Bureau receives off of that is what now? Three and a half?

Marilee Fowler: The Innkeepers Tax today is eight percent and, of that, two and a half percent comes directly back to the Convention & Visitors Bureau for sales and marketing, and the operations of our organization.

Councilmember Shetler: So, I guess where I’m looking at this is that, basically, if all of that, and not all that is taxed at that same level, anyway, because some of that is food, some of it is other things and stuff, but at best, 30 or 40,000 in that three years comes back into this cash flow on a 300,000 project. And that’s why I have a little bit of concern.

Marilee Fowler: Well, again, looking at what that facility has to offer, the consultant told us it’s one of the prime BMX racetracks in the country. But the fact that this is going to be an Olympic sport this year, we anticipate this sport is going to grow drastically, to get that kind of international opportunity that they think this will be something that will get a lot of people in Vanderburgh County and the surrounding area involved, which gives us an opportunity then to grow more regional, more local tournaments as well as some of these bigger tournaments that happen across the country.

Councilmember Shetler: I guess I’m piggybacking a little bit on what Joe had said earlier and that is that I do see a lot of competition for this money. And is this the best use of this money? I mean, or could we use that $300,000 to attract bigger crowds more often, and that’s a question I ask of you guys.

Joe Vezzoso: I think, Mr. Shetler and Councilmembers, another thing you have to take into consideration is, you look at other projects we’ve done, and if you use that same analogy and you try to say okay, the Reitz Home, for example, we spent, I think it was 6 or $700,000 in painting the Reitz Home. Have we got a return on that investment? Probably not. But it did better the quality of life. It improved the quality of that museum, which just adds to things for people to do while they’re in Vanderburgh County. Did we see a total return on that investment? Absolutely not. The Goebel Soccer Complex, for example, it is used by all the citizens of Vanderburgh County, but the reason we supported that was because of the tournaments that it brings in two to three times a year. You know, how long is it going to take us to return our investment on that? It’s going to take a sizable amount of time and, you know, we’re even looking at expanding that complex now. I mean, the idea is to purchase additional land out there and add another, probably, ten fields if available because all the soccer folks tell us that if they had additional fields, they could probably bring in one to two more tournaments a year. So when we look at a project, I don’t know whether you can look at it from a regular business standpoint that says okay, we’re going to get a return on our investment in ten years or five years or whatever it might be. Some of these projects that we have done, transportation, for example, down at the Museum, we spent, I think, close to a million dollars assisting the Museum and moving that transportation station, plus, we spent a little over a million, maybe a million and a half on the Pagoda. Did we get a return on that investment? Did we get dollar for dollar? No. I mean, the Museum is – does it attract overnight visitors? No. But do we have visitors that stay overnight in Evansville that go to the Museum? Yes. So I don’t know whether you can look at this and say, okay, you’re spending $400,000, how do you get that back? And to your point, Mr. Shetler, these numbers do not equate because you have to look – we only receive revenue from overnight stays and hotels. This number of $86 is expenditures within our community. To your point, food, beverage, shopping, all those things that people spend while they’re in our community. So, you know, we would have to really dig down in here. If they’re staying at Burdette Park, I don’t know what his average rate is out there on his overnight accommodations, but if they’re filling those chalets out there with people that are staying at the track, is it good for the county? Yes. You’re getting more revenue than the Bureau is because you’re getting – we’re getting eight percent of whatever he’s charging for that room. So I think when you look at this project and other projects we bring before you, you have to remember, we’re not going to see an immediate return on investment. It’s a quality of life issue. You know, are more people going to come to the park from Vanderburgh County and use it, going to BMX? Who knows. You know, if it becomes a great sport, you’re going to see more kids into it. So I don’t want you all to just say okay, what’s the return investment on this, because I don’t think we can put that in hard numbers and say, Mr. Shetler, this is going to pay you back in ten years.

Councilmember Shetler: That’s a good response. I think one of the things I’m looking for or hoping for, maybe, yes, and the answer that I might have been looking toward was in the soccer and the softball, you do have a couple major tournaments, but you also have a lot of little stuff that kind of goes in between, that sometimes doesn’t get counted in the figures. And I’m hoping that what we’re saying here is that we’ve had two tournaments in the past or two races in the past, what we’re looking to is expand that schedule out and we’re going to have things going a lot more often and bringing in people here a lot more often than what we have in the past. And this is what we’re hoping to do. So, I mean, that’s kind of what I’m looking at.

Joe Vezzoso: You know, and I think I’ve said this to this group before, a number of the groups that we deal with on the requests like this are volunteer groups, just like Angie and her group. They’re totally volunteers. The soccer community is a volunteer group. The Frog Follies is a volunteer group. And what our concern is as we move forward, we’re seeing those people that are running those organizations getting older in age. We’re not seeing young people coming on board, for example, in Frog Follies to pick that up. And if we don’t see more involvement from the community standpoint, from the volunteer standpoint, we’re going to see some of these things go away. Just like adding another soccer tournament, if we don’t have the volunteers, the groups out there that’s willing to do all the volunteer work that it takes to put those tournaments on, we’re not going to be able to attract them to Evansville. And those of you that have young people that participate in those youth sports know how much you have to travel with your kids and you know how much you have to spend when you leave Evansville to go to the soccer tournaments. If you had a BMX rider and you were having to go down to Nashville and Indianapolis, wherever, you know how much you have to spend to do that. So I think when we looked at it as a Bureau, it’s an improvement of an existing facility that we felt will attract additional tournaments and will bring additional money into Vanderburgh County. Is it going to pay back the $407,000 in any quick period? No. I don’t think any of us can stand up here and tell you that we’re going to get that back in Innkeeper’s Tax in any short period.

Councilmember Shetler: How much do you guys locally charge the outside groups or riders? Do you guys get any additional fees off of –

Angie Almond: Our race fees or when we have nationals are run through the national bicycle league. And they charge $50 per race. And then we get some of that back. We usually get about $5 per rider back from that. All the money that we get is basically from our concession stand. And that money buys all of our fuel, our upkeep on all of our equipment. We just bought a tractor about five years ago. Anything that comes into the track, goes back into the track. That’s just how it’s been since I’ve taken over.

Councilmember Shetler: Are the utilities, are they set up on a separate meter or does that go through our park?

Councilmember Raben: Good morning. I’d like to go back on some of the comments that were made earlier in relation to possibly looking at other avenues or scaling this down slightly. As I look at the plan, I may need to address this question to Mr. Kunkel, but you know, I look at the second floor of that and the meeting space, and I don’t know the exact square footage, but we’ve got thousands and thousands of square feet of meeting space in that park now. How much cost would it take out of this project if we removed the second floor? Allowed for the registration and concessions, the restrooms, storage?

Ben Kunkel: I can do some figures to get an approximate figure here in a second, on what the figure would be. But I think the intent of that event room was for them to be able to at any event, to get a sponsorship of that with Dan’s Comp or whoever it may be that says, you know, we’ll pay you X dollars so that we can have tables and sell our wares at the event, and whatever that might be. So I think it was a way to enhance those tournaments, it wasn’t necessarily to have – and it wouldn’t really serve its purpose at the Discovery Lodge or at – is that number 18 back there, or whatever it may be.

Councilmember Raben: Eighteen, again, and I know Steve is not going to appreciate this comment, but and I do understand that 18 has reservations that are booked out probably for the next 12 months. But moving forward, you know, I would think that we could look at your schedule first before we would book other events and utilize that facility. I mean, it’s 50 yards from the track. And if we’re talking about meeting space, you know, again, that’s an asset that we’ve already bought, paid for, that we could utilize today. And if it could take $150,000 out of this project by removing that event room, I think it would be –

Ben Kunkel: It wouldn’t be near that magnitude. It would be less than 50 to do that.

Councilmember Raben: Can we look at that and I think it was mentioned before, maybe address this at our June 4^th meeting. But that might be a concession amongst the group here –

Ben Kunkel: Additionally, the track was wanting to use that for their weekly, monthly, whatever meetings they have as well. And also, I’ll comment, that I think the intent was to not only have this room, but also rent number 18 and have somebody, you know, sponsor that as well, for these larger events as they continue to try to develop that over time.

Councilmember Raben: You know, I’ve got a few other questions if I can. One of them is, looking through your insurance policies and what have you, I guess you understand that what you have today wouldn’t cover the buildings, the assets, that we’re talking about. And second, is the lease rate. You know, the thousand dollars annually is based on a 31 year old track, with very little structures. What could we do to change the lease rate moving forward with this type of investment?

Councilmember Raben: Well, I mean, we’re still talking about, I mean, if we’re drawing bigger tournaments, we’re increasing revenues, now we’re talking about renting out meeting space to outside vendors, stuff like that and, you know, we’re still looking at operating under a lease of $1,000 annually, with the county investing another $407,000, which, you know, I think we need to be careful there, too, because I don’t know of too many projects that come in at budget. I think we’ve seen too often that usually what the budget is, is 10 or 20 percent short of what you really end up spending. But I’m just looking at ways of the county seeing some – a higher level of reimbursement other than a thousand a year with this type of investment.

Steve Craig: Well, James, when I took over as manager of Burdette, I think the rent was $600 on the ball diamonds and $600 on the BMX and Burdette paid all of the utilities, which the utilities up there with those lights and the water and everything that they pay, was quite a bit. And, at that time, we addressed it and I raised it to a thousand dollars, and they had to take care of their utilities. This is an organization that is run by a bunch of people that are volunteers and its – I guarantee you, they don’t have no slush fund or nothing where they’ve got extra money. If they’ve got any extra money, it goes back into that track. So by raising the rent, we may get whatever you would deem to raise it a year in our coffers, but we’re just taking it away from the track and the ability to those people that are volunteering their time up there to take care of their track. You know, they pay for – one thing right now, they have to mow their grass and that, you know, the fuel of that, utilities going up, that’s added expenses to them. You know, I mean, you guys, that’s your decision if you want to raise the rent, but I don’t see that as solving a problem or solving any problems because the money that they have, I see it. It goes back into the track. So, you know, it would just be taking away from their ability to run the track and give these kids a place to be on weekends and that. I don’t know. But that’s your decision. I’m not going to get into that.

Councilmember Raben: As far as the lease, as it reads today, it says that the organization would be responsible for securing any buildings and other improvements and equipment on the lease premises. So, with that, are we saying that we will continue to take care of all maintenance within the new structure, roofing, everything? Roofs, HVAC, everything, moving forward?

Chris Skelton: While we’re on the subject of return of investment, keep in mind, this track has been there for 31 years. I’m 33 years old. I don’t believe we’ve ever asked for a penny, so you stretch that money out over 31 years, it has brought quite a bit of money here to this area. And with the debut of the Olympic sport, it’s just taking off, so we have to look towards the future and in order to grow this sport in this community, we really need the facility to do so. So keep in mind that over 31 years, has accumulated a lot of money. And also, I went to 24 nationals last year, 22 the year before, my son and I travel all over the United States to race and it’s a super sport. Eighty-six dollars a day, as you well know, that pays for lunch. You know, on an average, I would say $800 to a $1,000 a weekend, and that’s at a minimum that a two or a three person family would spend in that short of time.

Ben Kunkel: One other reason to support a quality facility, I was speaking to Angie, that 15 years ago, the grands, which I think is the major race in BMX racing, is now over in Louisville. She says that it’s approximated, it brings in 6.5 million dollars over Memorial Day weekend, to Louisville. Fifteen years ago, it was at Burdette Park. So if the facilities would have kept up and those kind of things, that is a potential event that could have been at Burdette Park. I think that’s food for thought.

Councilmember Winnecke: First, I think this is probably one of the healthiest discussions we’ve had on a single topic in a long time. I think everyone has made good points. To me, I think we need to look at maybe a bigger picture. One, I think the partnership that exists between the BMX group and the county is really critical. Here’s a group that maintains it, they pay for utilities. I think our community is about reaching out and enhancing partnerships. The third point that I think is really critical is, the calendar is, if I’m reading it correctly, you’re bringing in over 1,700 room nights a year to our community. We’ve already lost in potential business, according to these records, more than 15,000 room nights in business that we have had in the past. So, to me, if we’re not going to – we have to make investments like this to maintain the convention business that we have. If not, we have the potential to lose another 1,700 room nights a year. And I don’t think that’s good for the growth of our community.

Councilmember Goebel: I don’t know if I had any other points to add. I was looking back to the design. If the registration area, could that not double as a meeting area, because you won’t be registering people all the time and your meetings, typically, will be at different times...

Angie Almond: The registration area has everybody’s information in that area. When you have a large meeting and I want to say that all the meetings that have been taking place lately have been in my garage. And that’s where we have meetings. And it may be a spur of the moment meeting, it may be that we have to get started on something and we may have to call a meeting on Friday night. So that means I have to clear out my garage and put everybody in my garage. So that’s where everything – the registration is not a large area on the end of there. That houses all of the records for all the riders. It has our trophies, it also has loaner bikes and helmets that we give out to people that do not have bikes or helmets to use to try the track out. And we have really brought in a lot more people since we have had that program underway.

Ben Kunkel: I believe there’s approximately 3,300 square feet of building. There’ll be, I think it was about 5,200 square feet, all total, with the deck above.

Councilmember Sutton: As we look at the present lease that we’re operating under that was put into place in 2006, with this project that’s proposed to us, has there been any discussions with the Commissioners, because the lease that we have here would not work with the new structure of a new building that was being proposed here.

Steve Craig: I have not spoken to the Commissioners. Are you talking about an extension of the lease or expanding it for the amount of money that’s been insured?

Councilmember Sutton: Well, that’s one issue, but if you look at the language of the lease, it really does not include a project like we’re talking about here with the facility, the maintenance, the care taking that’s going to be required for this particular facility because we didn’t, obviously, this lease was not – we didn’t have this facility when this lease was put in place, so if you look at just a lease premises, the use, the maintenance, the rent, are all areas that will change as a result of this here. And, like I said, that’s just a few things that I’ve listed. Have you given any thought to how that discussion may begin?

Steve Craig: Royce, if you guys would, I think, see or find it in your heart to do this project, I would go to Ted Ziemer and the Commissioners and we would rewrite the lease to include all those points that you brought up.

Councilmember Sutton: Okay. One of the things that I mentioned at our meeting last week, which I think this is a good project, you know, I think it is healthy to see an organization that’s bringing people into the community and it has a long, successful track record like BMX has had and many people in the community probably hadn’t realized that the success of the operation that we’ve got going on out at Burdette Park with the BMX group there. But in looking at the structure, I want to make sure – I have to look at it from the county’s perspective as well, know that we’re protected well enough that if the organization does cease to exist, you know, what will be the conditions, what will be the relationship? Who will own that track? How will that facility – how will it be used? Who will take over that responsibility if at all, if that organization does cease to exist and there’s really no language in here that really addresses that.

Steve Craig: Well, I did read in it that if they would cease to exist, that they would take anything that was their equipment or movable, but anything that was permanent would stay intact, and I would definitely know the building would be permanent and it would probably become part of Burdette to use as however we deem fit. But just my thought, they’ve been there 31 years with an old building and the electric box sparking when they get too much going. If they get a nice building, and the Olympics coming up, they’re going to be around another 31 years. And I think that that’s something that you guys need to look at because that money, you brought up a very good idea, you can say it’s this much money and it’s coming right now, but they don’t give you 31 years of hard work, they’re going to give you another 30 years of hard work, spread that money out over that 60 years, and I don’t think it’s that’s much money to be investing up there.

Councilmember Sutton: How do you see this in the non-competing months? How do you see the park being able to use this facility as we see the plans going around here? I mean, you’ve got a large meeting space area, you’ve got concessions, how can the county generate some additional benefit from this facility?

Steve Craig: Well, I think it would be a great place for a couple of reasons to invite other organizations that are non-profit making organizations or maybe such as baseball, I had bicycle clubs and that, that this room and this facility would be available to. Then they would be able to come out, see the facility at Burdette, see the bike track, and it could help generate interest in the BMX, and not only BMX, the whole park. But I think it would be a great place through four or five months out of the year or three or four, when they’re having some down time and it is open, that other clubs and other organizations come out and use it. Anytime you can get them to the park, you’re just selling the park. I mean, if they pull up and they’re sitting in that building and they see the Discovery Lodge, it still amazes me when people say, oh, when did you build that? I thought everybody knew about it, but they don’t. And I think it would be a great thing. Evansville Convention & Visitors Bureau could have some of their meetings there. They came out to Burdette and had separate buildings in the park. I have my advisory board every month, they could use it. We could put the building to use in the time that it is down.

Councilmember Sutton: Well, I guess, more so what I’m thinking, Steve, that you’ve made presentations to us about the O’Day Discovery Lodge, and the amount of use that you’re getting out of that. And it’s basically booked year round, and some of those requests that you get, can’t some of those flow over into the top floor of this, you know, whether it be receptions, whether it be events or meetings, what have you, for this facility as well?

Steve Craig: I personally think it opens up a liability to the park and to the BMX. First of all, the entrances to the upstairs are both outside entrances, and then you’d have to go back outside to the restrooms because they would come out and the restrooms access is not from the inside of the building, but they’re actually designed and built, if I’m right, for the bicyclers’ use.

Steve Craig: – restrooms inside, have a catering kitchen or anything, this building is designed that the bicycler is going to ride up and go to the restroom. I can’t see renting it in January and you’ve got ice and snow, and you’ve got a party upstairs, and they have to walk down these steps, and it’s freezing rain, and they leave their rental building to go to a restroom. You know, I’ve been trying to get away from that for years. That’s the way Burdette was a long time ago. And, you know, I’m trying to get away from having port-a-potties. We’re having a world race up there, a national race, and we’ve got to ship in 20 port-a-potties, and, you know, I don’t think that Vanderburgh County, you know, we’ve been getting away from that. You know, I’ve put restrooms all over the park.

Councilmember Sutton: Absolutely. Maybe I didn’t see that on the drawings. I guess I had supposed that the bathrooms were going to be accessible from the inside –

Steve Craig: No, see, they’re open for the public. When the races are going, the kids and that can come in and use the restrooms. You know, if they had to let them all in the building, it would be chaos. So it’s actually set up, you know, for the BMX track. And for, you know, there’s places where they put their bikes, they’re going to come flying up. And if they have to use the restroom, they have to use the restroom. But to rent that out as a wedding facility or something, I think there’s going to be all kinds of issues that we don’t even want to approach. I think they could use it for meetings and it still would be an inconvenience if you had a big meeting up there in December, January or February and there’s snow and ice and the people’s got to walk out and walk down steps to go to the restroom. That’s, like I said, that’s something I’ve been trying to get away from at Burdette. And, you know, we’ve done a good job. We’ve been putting our restrooms in our buildings and being accessible, but I think that’s some of the, just the tip of the problems that you would have trying to rent it out.

Councilmember Sutton: I think maybe some thought ought to have been maybe given to that. Just to make sure that it is not just a single use –

Steve Craig: Oh, I would like to use it, like I said. I would like to invite everybody to use it.

President Abell: I want to remind the Councilmen, we don’t have this room very much longer. Mr. Goebel and then Mr. Shetler.

Councilmember Goebel: Well, once again, congratulations to the BMX group and I know that you have ownership in your track and you work so many man and woman hours to keep it up. And it’s not a possession, necessarily, but it is, because of your hard work. If that building is built inside that fenced area, if I were a member of the BMX group, I wouldn’t want you to rent that out because there could be some vandalism, destruction, and things like that. The only way to get in there would be to open that fence, and then you’re inviting other groups in.

Councilmember Goebel: My point is, I know that they want to put their best foot forward and I think this group wants to partner with them in that venture because you do attract, very much, to our community. And everything about you is good for our community. But can we not look at, as Mr. Sutton said, maybe putting the building outside and having a multiple use for it and let the BMX call it home, right on the other side of the fence or something like that, where people won’t invade the track itself, but still, we could use it when there is downtime, if you understand what I’m saying.

Steve Craig: Oh, I understand. I don’t know, I know that during races and that, with the tower and that, they’re going to be doing judging, you know, doing observations and that, and that’s the center of it. I don’t know if moving it outside, they would no longer be able to use it for some of the purposes that they intended it for. You know, as you move it away, they’re not going to be able to see what’s going on down in the track and that. And that was one of the reasons for the observation tower because they do bring in a lot of computer scoring stuff. Angie can explain that, but I think the location, one of the purposes of the location was to observe the track and be able to use it in that sense.

Councilmember Goebel: And my point is, that would mandate it would become almost exclusively for that BMX organization. And I have a problem with that part of it. As far as the balcony and the viewing tower for the fans and for – I think if you put it on top of the building, if we built, maybe a lower level, that’s definitely something to think about.

Angie Almond: The actual decking part can also be used. The National Bicycle League makes videos of all the races, the big races. That’s an excellent place to do video taping. I mean, I’ve even had people climb on top of the announcing tower to do video taping of the whole track and that’s not a good place. This will give them access to see the whole track. They would be able to see the starting hill, the finish line and all the way in between. That’s one reason why this area was selected for that so that they could see the bottom of the hill, the whole track.

Ben Kunkel: On the fencing issue, if you want to have access to the building, we can certainly relocate the fence to make access to the building. The other questions of liability, handicap access, all that kind of stuff that comes into play are still out there, but you can certainly make that where you have dual entrances, one inside the fence and one out.

Councilmember Shetler: Yeah. When we don’t have, what did you call it, tournaments, races, whatever, when you don’t have those things coming in town, do you have local participation going on out there like on a daily basis?

Angie Almond: Well, we have practice Wednesdays right now until school is out and then we have practice on Mondays and Wednesdays, Friday nights are our work nights out there, which we have to get the track prepared, mow the grass, get everything ready for the concession stands, Saturdays we have races. Usually, people start coming out about three, and we race at 7:00 at night under the lights. We are only one of the few tracks that race under lights around the country and that’s what makes our track so unique, because a lot of people do like to come in and race at night. It’s not 90 degrees to race in the sun.

Councilmember Shetler: Do they, when they come out there – so an individual just couldn’t come out there with his bicycle on Monday night or Wednesday night, whatever those open sessions were?

Angie Almond: They can come out with a parent or guardian, sign a waiver, try the track out. If they like it, they can buy their National Bicycle League membership, which is $45 for a year, and that goes from day to day.

Councilmember Shetler: And each and every time, or at least you have to have on file a liability waiver-type release?

Angie Almond: Unless you hold an NBL membership – unless you hold your NBL member. If you have your membership card, then you’re covered, you know, you just pay your practice fee, which is $4 to come and practice.

Councilmember Shetler: Okay. I think one of the problems – and I’m very much for it, I’m very much for young people being involved and having activities for them, but there is a little bit of a unique situation that we have here in that, you know, the exclusive use of it. You know, we brought up soccer fields, for example. I know there’s football games played out there at the soccer fields at least once or twice a year. You’ve got lacrosse practices that are taking place out there. The individual teams that play have to pay on a regular basis to use that facility at Goebel. In fact, I think in all of our public parks, they have to pay on an ongoing basis. This seems to be a unique situation where we have allowed a specific group to have that corner, that piece of property and to be able to utilize it the way they wish to without having a whole lot of county control or say so over it. In the other situations, at softball, I think we retain most of the revenue, in fact, operate the concession stands, I believe, in most of the other cases. So that’s where I’m kind of along with what James was talking about earlier. I’m just not sure that we’re getting the kind of revenue. And I understand that you guys are volunteering your time. I’ve done that, you know, on the soccer side of it and I see the people working in the bands and for the football teams and all of the other things over the years that I’ve been involved in with our kids. And I know you guys put in a ton of time. I understand that and I appreciate it. But at the same time, I guess I’m looking at the liability factor, I’m also looking at the finance cash flow here and trying to justify it for our county. But I appreciate you being here. Thank you.

Councilmember Winnecke: I have one quick question and I think we need to get it on the record. Marilee, the transfer of money from the Mesker Zoo account, the $82,000, how will that affect the city’s Amazonia project, the money that this body has previously committed to it?

Marilee Fowler: Well, at this point in time, they haven’t invoiced us for anything yet. So I anticipate it should be coming. But what we’ll do, this increase in the Innkeeper’s Tax, when we added the extra two percent it is growing much faster than we had anticipated. So we are optimistic that by the end of the year, that $82,000 will be in place, that we can go ahead and finish that final payment to the city.

Councilmember Winnecke: That’s my biggest concern, that we don’t sell that project down any more than what it’s already facing. Thank you.

Councilmember Raben: I’d still like to see what the difference in the cost would be, removing the meeting area. I mean, I think that, again, we’re talking exclusivity here. You know, initially, our first impression was this building was going to have other opportunities, but with what Steve said in regards to how the meeting room could be used with separate restroom facilities and what have you, I’d still like to look at going back to a single floor design and removing the meeting area and, again, trying to utilize as many thousands of square feet of meeting area as we have within the park now.

Chris Skelton: One comment to add to that, sorry, a lot of that is also going to be spectator area, you know, with the balcony that surrounds the entire building. We were looking into the prices of bleachers when we were going over all this. And a nice sized bleacher, I believe, it holds 150 people, is roughly around 10 or $12,000. So as Mr. Kunkel stated, if we’re looking at 50,000, it’s not that much more money to go ahead and add the meeting room because we’re also getting the spectators’ deck on top.

President Abell: Any other Councilmen? Well, then I have a couple of questions. I was waiting for everyone else. I don’t know who all I need to address mine to. Steve, maybe you first. The lighting that will be there to light the path, the track, is that lighting that will automatically come on every night whether they’re using it or not?

President Abell: Is it in any way lighting that will help the bike path that you’ve got built over somewhat that goes –

President Abell: Maybe Marilee could answer my next question. How much – who is the biggest contributor to the Innkeeper’s Tax?

President Abell: But, I mean, which one of our hotels? Is it Aztar or Executive Inn or –

President Abell: If you’ve taken the Executive Inn out, would that impact this budget tremendously?

President Abell: No, if the Executive Inn was eliminated from the contributor –

Marilee Fowler: Well, we don’t see individual hotels, so we only can guestimate based on what kind of business we know that’s in the community. They are an important player, especially if it’s a city-wide or it’s a convention that’s using the convention center. But Aztar, on a day to day basis, knowing how they operate, knowing the volume of business that they do, they are the first and foremost probably in Innkeeper’s Tax.

President Abell: You’re going to build it? You designed it and you’re going to build it?

President Abell: I guess I was a little concerned that we didn’t have a breakdown on cost per square foot and that type thing, as an estimate.

President Abell: Well, I can kind of figure it up in my head. If you say it’s about 5,000 square feet under roof?

President Abell: Second stories are always much cheaper than first stories to build.

President Abell: So if you just built the one, you’d still be at least 60 a square foot for it or maybe – but you wouldn’t be 60 for the upper. You’d be more because aren’t main floors more expensive to build than the upper level, is what I’m getting at.

President Abell: If we were to eliminate this upper and we had to come back and we wanted to come back next year, then we’d have to – what, increase the lighting and wiring and...

Ben Kunkel: You’d spend a ton of money to do that. It’s not feasible. It’s not realistic to do – I mean, you’re going to tear the roof off the building, you’re going to – it just gets to be not a smart business move. I mean, I think the decision needs to be made, either build the event room or don’t. I mean, it’s simple.

President Abell: Can I finish, Mr. Raben? I’ve waited for everyone else and now that I have the microphone, no, I’m not finished. When I finish, you can. Mr. Craig, I have a question for you. I wrote all my questions down, that’s why I’m bouncing back and forth. There is no public transportation from the city of Evansville out to Burdette right now?

Steve Craig: No, we used to have busses that came to Burdette, and they finally told us they would no longer run them from the lack of use.

President Abell: And has that ever been revisited? Have we ever thought about bringing children out there?

Steve Craig: We had thought about it. Its just that when we tried it before, it was probably popular for a month. Then after that, they probably – some days they had no riders, and some days they would one or two riders.

President Abell: Okay, thank you. And Ms. Almond, I think I have a question for you and then I’ll turn it over to Mr. Raben and let him ask his question. Mine has absolutely nothing to do with finances, although I know that’s what this body is about, but my thing is about quality of life and everyone knows here how near and dear to my heart it is that children that don’t have other opportunities, have an opportunity to use any facility that we fund. Is there any mechanism in place for a child who would not be able to afford to participate, that might show an interest in BMX? Do you have any donors who are willing to sponsor a child?

Angie Almond: We do have sponsors. Not only that, if a family could not afford to buy their membership, they could volunteer, they could come out and help. We are always limited on volunteers. Like all this rain that we’re getting now, we’re going to have to work, probably Friday night until late at night just to get the track ready. And there’s all the time we need people to help mow, you know, somebody help in the concession stand, pass out the trophies at the end of the night, there’s always ways that we will work with anybody to bring in more kids. That’s our objective is to get some of these kids off the street. Some of these kids that don’t have any opportunities to do anything, bring them out to the track. We’re more than willing to work with anybody to bring in kids. And not just kids, adults, teenagers. I mean, we have a lot of teenagers that have gotten their license, phased out a little bit, and they’re all coming back now. My son was the same way. My son is in the Navy now, and he can’t wait to get back to California, so he can ride again. So that’s, I’m a rider. I ride BMX. I just started a year ago and I love every minute of it and everybody I talk to, every one of these people back here that are with me, we’re all riders. And we travel together, and we work together out at the track to make it a nice, safe place for everyone.

President Abell: Okay, thank you. I just have one comment that I want to make to the group and my fellow Councilmen. If we had a group coming in front of us that had a brand new project, and they said to us, we’ll provide all of the volunteers, you won’t have to hire anybody to mow this yard, we’ll run our concession stand to maintain this building, all you have to do is help us build a building, I think we would be standing up and screaming, with pleasure, because we have never had a group that’s been so willing to volunteer their time. And I know it would be nice to think we might get some of the money off the concessions, Mr. Shetler, but you also have to hire someone and bond them, who sits back there and takes that money. If they’re a county employee, plus then we have to provide them with benefits and insurance, and I like the concept of this group. I’m not a BMX rider, but I do like the concept of volunteerism in our community, and I appreciate everything every one of you have done. Mr. Raben, you can ask your question.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, thank you. My last comment, and I don’t know that I can change things yet today, but one other consideration, if we didn’t have to act on this today, I mean, when we’re looking at a project of this magnitude, that the park is not going to be able to utilize outside of the organization that hosts the events in it, I’d rather look at what additional cost it would be to put two bathrooms in the upstairs and make an entrance from outside the fence so the park could utilize that upstairs meeting space. You know, we could work out an agreement where we grandfathered the club on race days, but, you know, they can book those race days out a year in advance, but the other days throughout the course of the year, we would be able to utilize that facility.

Ben Kunkel: You could budget about $8,000 a toilet, as a figure. And the bigger issue is handicap accessibility. You, as a government body, a municipality, it’s a little vague here now with leases and all that kind of stuff, have a responsibility to provide a completely barrier free facility. As a private entity, you have an opportunity to fix or provide reasonable accommodations that would allow a handicapped person to have the same experience out there. So if you –

Councilmember Raben: We’re going to own the facility. The county will own the facility. We’ll carry the deed, not the lease.

Ben Kunkel: I guess that’s a question for your attorney, but they are the private organization, to have the opportunity to do that. So you would have to put in an elevator is what I’m getting at.

Councilmember Raben: I would disagree with you. I mean, I don’t think we’re changing the law any. I mean, I don’t think we’re any more relieved or any more obligated by the circumstances of this agreement, of the leaseholder. I mean, we own the property. It’s a new property, you know, some of that you skirt with renovations, if you don’t overextend the renovations. But I don’t know that, we’re doing this changes, we’re operating outside of the law now if we do it, is what I’m saying. Again, Madam President, if we’re going to spend $307,000 or whatever it is, I’d rather spend another $16,000 and be able to use it outside of race day for Vanderburgh County residents.

Councilmember Sutton: I would say, too, Jim, I mean, even for their uses, wouldn’t they want to have upstairs facilities, you know? And I’m just as – just to go outside and go downstairs from their meeting, that seems a little impractical. I mean, and I don’t know what these ADA requirements might, what would need to be met just by adding two bathrooms, but, I mean, as much as we can do to make this a wider use. I think that’s your message, what you’re saying? I know, it seems like what Mike is saying. It’s, obviously, what I’m saying, as well.

Joe Vezzoso: I hate to interrupt your discussion, but I guess from the Convention Bureau standpoint, we would, I don’t believe we would really want to see the project expanded beyond the current $407,000 because of some restrictions we have for other funding projects. I like the idea that if we need to eliminate the second floor, and maybe increase the size of the first floor to provide adequate meeting space for their facility. I mean, when you get into ADA requirements and putting an elevator out there and all those things so that the second floor is available for all the citizens, I think you’re going to increase the cost more than $8,000 per, as Ben said, per toilet. But, you know, it’s going to become a little more expensive. I would rather see them expand the first floor and keep it on one level and get rid of the second floor, because I really do believe that our bureau would not bring back to you an increase in the cost of construction on this project.

Councilmember Raben: I guess therein lies the question, since its been mentioned, are we in compliance anyway? Right now, building the building as it is? If we didn’t, if Burdette never tried to utilize the second floor, in the future, it always remained within the BMX organization. Are we in compliance? And I’m not so sure that we are.

Steve Craig: Well, what you’re – the point you’re bring up, the restrooms and that, are handicap accessible. The bottom part of the building for the concession stand is handicap accessible. Their private meeting room upstairs is not. By you wanting to bring it into being a public building, that comes into play. They would no longer be able to do that. I don’t know if it’s under their jurisdiction, because one of the reasons that they probably didn’t want to rent it out is because then it brings in the whole new set of liabilities that you’re going to have to have, for people that are handicapped, for people to have accessibility to that upper level. Other than that, they have accessibility to the concessions and to the restrooms.

President Abell: Let me break in here a minute, because if we’re going to talk about legalities, lets ask Mr. Ahlers to give his opinion. And, Mr. Ziemer, if you’d like to, also, we would certainly welcome your comments.

Jeff Ahlers: I guess one of the concerns I’d have and it may ultimately be that Mr. Ziemer, you know, does need to address it if it’s going to be a county-owned building, but I guess my thought is, is that you don’t know that BMX is always going to be the lessee of this building. If it’s going to be a county building, just like the Discovery Lodge or something, and I would assume that architecturally, it’s going to need to comply with whatever laws and regulations are going to be necessary as any other government building would be. I mean, I don’t know what would exempt it from that. And if the only thing that I guess you were relying upon to do that is that you’re leasing it out. You don’t always know that it’s going to be leased. And then one other issue that I noticed, that again, I assume that Mr. Ziemer would address is that – and, I guess, brings up some of the points that others had touched upon, is that the current lease is for just leasing what’s inside the fenced area. I assume there would need to be a new lease drafted up in some fashion that would change some terms, whatever that may be, just by virtue of the fact that you’re now leasing more property. And so that would need to be done as well, so the county, obviously, still retains control, to a certain extent, that may alleviate some of the concerns. You know, is going to have some control over the terms under which it’s going to be used. So, I mean, it’s not like your vote today surrenders that control, that the Commissioners would have, you know, some authority in negotiating the terms of the lease. But, I would point out, and Mr. Ziemer can tell me if he disagrees, if it’s a government, county-owned building, I think it’s going to need to comply with whatever codes that any other building out there at Burdette would need to comply with, I would think, so that you’re not limited in your – restricted in your future use.

Councilmember Goebel: I’m sorry, but if this measure as proposed doesn’t pass today, could we ask your group to maybe bring in what you think or maybe come up with a plan, number one, to first and foremost, to enhance your track, the things you need for the seating and things like that, that will make the races for the participants, number one, as good as you possibly can make them. Number two, help with the crowd. And then number three, maybe come back with another proposal soon that we can take a look at as far as the building itself. Because I think there’s a lot of questions that really cannot be answered this morning. Do you understand what I asked? Does that makes sense? Thank you.

President Abell: We’re going to need some type of a motion to do something. We’re either going to defeat the thing entirely – my thought would be, and I don’t make the motions, since I’m the president, but I’d certainly like to see us at least give them the money to do the track lighting and the bleacher seating because that doesn’t have anything to do with the building. And then, maybe come back later with some – like maybe within the next 30 days with something about the building. I am concerned about the accessibility. Someone may want to go up there and do some viewing. And if they can’t get up to the upper level, we could be in for a lot of trouble ourselves.

Ben Kunkel: I think you’ll find, with a little research, that that private viewing area is not going to be part of the ADA accessability. You’re not going to put an elevator in to make that happen. The second floor event room, you would, if you own that and you’re the public entity. The reasonable accommodations that you could make, as a private entity, would be to say, okay, yeah, you’re right, I don’t have an elevator to get you up to that event room, but how about I rent you the Discovery Lodge instead? That’s certainly a reasonable accommodation to make. You don’t have that ability as a municipality because you’re a government entity and that person needs access to everything that’s the government’s, effectively.

Councilmember Sutton: So is there, along the lines of what we’re discussing, is there a breakout that we could have where we pull the building out of this maybe initial motion, and just look at all the other aspects that –

President Abell: It’s right in front of the yellow page that says lease. The last page of the “About Burdette Park BMX”.

Councilmember Leader: But can we do that? I mean, can you effectively renovate the track and get the bleachers and do the lighting, if we pull the building today?

Ben Kunkel: Can we start with that? Sure. We also can make the building one story, if that’s the pleasure of the Council.

Joe Vezzoso: Maybe we can help you out a little bit. I hear a lot of the concerns of the Councilmembers. What if we were to withdraw our request at the current time and we regroup and then come back before you with a new plan? Would that be easier?

President Abell: It would be easier for me. What’s the pleasure of the Council?

Councilmember Sutton: We’re saying, though, it’s the building, I think, that’s where the most questions are. I mean, if we were to have a motion on the floor to address the bleachers, the lighting, –

Joe Vezzoso: They have made it this long and I think if it’s 60 more days before we get to the end of the road of this to bring it back to you, I think it’s worth that time to bring it back as a total project. So it’s just what is easier for you all.

Councilmember Shetler: I thought there was a time constraint, though, that it needed to be done. I thought that’s why we had this special meeting today, too, and I don’t want to –

Joe Vezzoso: Mr. Shetler, I think they wanted to move as quickly as possible. I don’t know whether there’s a time restraint as far as attracting people in this year because the schedule is pretty well set. I, you know, it just sounds like there’s a lot of concerns: there’s ADA concerns, there’s can you get rid of the second floor and make it all on one level. You know, I just think that maybe we need to relook at the whole thing and bring it back to you all. If that makes it easier for the County Council, we’d be glad to do that.

Councilmember Goebel: The field itself, those kind of changes can be made rather quickly anyway, can’t they, before August, if we approve next month? Chairs and lighting and all that?

President Abell: Mr. Vezzoso, can you hold one moment? We didn’t put in a long enough tape because we didn’t think we were going to be here that long. We have to change the tape. And with our new system, it’s not as easy as it used to be.

Joe Vezzoso: Our next meeting of the Convention Bureau is May the 27^th. The Kunkel Group has indicated to me that they can have it redesigned and refigured by that time. So if we were to meet on the 27^th, we’d be taking a look at bringing it back to you all. I think if you try to do the lighting outside of the scope of the entire project, I think some of the electrical panels and things are within the building. So as they put that new lighting in, it would be – I think we’d just better take a look at it again, ma’am.

Councilmember Raben: I would propose that you prepare two proposals. One is the existing proposal with an entrance that could be utilized for other events including two restrooms upstairs, and with the understanding that the County would probably have to pick up the additional cost of the restrooms. And then the second, with some clear understanding, legally, as to the ADA, you know, assuming that we don’t have to be ADA compliant. And then the other is to do the single floor facility.

Joe Vezzoso: Yeah, we’ll take into consideration all your comments today so we’ll have a little better handle on it.

President Abell: Ms. Fowler, when you get ready to prepare the paperwork, would you let Ms. Deig know it will be a late transfer or a late appropriation or whatever? I think we probably need a motion to table this.

President Abell: Fellow Councilmen, thank you for your time this morning. We stand adjourned.

(There being no further business to come before the Council, the meeting was adjourned at 10:02 a.m.)