The Vanderburgh County Council met in session this 5th day of March in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex. The meeting was called to order at 8:31 a.m. by Council President Marsha Abell.

President Abell: I’d like to call to order the March 5^th, 2008 meeting of the Vanderburgh County Council. Attendance roll call – before we do that, you might note you have new microphones on your desk. What you need to do is make sure that the button is all the way down, that means you’re talking. And when it’s up slightly, that means your microphone is off. And my understanding is, they can all be on at one time now instead of some of them offsetting others, so make sure we turn them off or we’re going to have a lot of feedback. So let’s try the new system.

COUNCILMEMBER	PRESENT	ABSENT
Councilmember Sutton	X
Councilmember Leader	X
Councilmember Shetler	X
Councilmember Goebel	X
Councilmember Raben	X
Councilmember Winnecke	X
President Abell	X

President Abell: Good morning to everyone in the audience and welcome to our meeting. If we stagger a little bit, we’re working with a new addressing system today and so it may be a little difficult. For those of you who happen to come to the podium, the same thing is true: your button in is illuminated, and that means you can speak, and when it is out, it means we won’t be able to hear you. So please make sure you have your microphone turned on. The Appropriation Ordinance: I’ll turn the meeting over to Mr. Raben.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, good morning. Thank you, Madam President. First on the agenda under Jail, 1051-1130-0356 Confinement Officer in the amount of $273, Madam President, I’m going to move approval of that item. The following three items: 1051-1301, 1051-1531 and 1051-1951, at this time we’re going to set in at zero. Those have not had final approval through the Commissioners yet.

Councilmember Raben: Okay next, Public Defender, 1303-1620-1303 in the amount of $3,286, 1303-3948 Death Penalty, at this time has been withdrawn, I move we set that in at zero for a total of $3,286.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, now we move down to Highway: 2010-1750 Clothing Allowance and 2010-1910 PERF in at zero. We have basically a similar situation where these have not had final approval through the Commission, so this will come back to us but it will probably be next month. Zero both.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, next Family & Children, 2042-30090 in the amount of $33,926, I’ll move approval.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, next under County Assessor, 2490-1090-1990 and 2490-1090-1900, for a total of 8,720. I’ll move approval.

President Abell: Roll call vote. I’m sorry, does anyone have a question? Mr. Goebel?

Councilmember Goebel: I guess item number one with the County Assessor and PTABOA, it seemed to be a little bit of question as to, is that the same person or a different? Two people?

Jonathan Weaver: Good morning, Jonathan Weaver, Vanderburgh County Assessor. That’s different.

President Abell: Anyone else? Mr. Sutton, did you have a question? Okay, thank you, Mr. Weaver. Roll call vote please.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, next, under PTABOA, Extra Help in the amount of $4,300 and FICA in the amount of 329, for a total of $4,629, I’ll move approval.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, that’s it for the appropriations, Madam President, I will move that all transfers be approved as listed.

President Abell: Mr. Duckworth called me. He had a doctor’s appointment this morning, he is not here. I might be able to answer any question that you would have.

Councilmember Shetler: That Calcium Chloride, that’s not the beet juice or have anything to do with that same line item where that comes out of?

President Abell: No, the Calcium Chloride is – my understanding is, that it’s the product they use on the streets the next day, that the beet juice goes on the day before – the pretreatment. And then this goes on the next day. And he has had to use just about everything he’s got, and we have enough in case it snows Friday, but he wants to move this just for precautionary measures. And we can always move it back into the Bituminous Materials if he doesn’t use it all.

Councilmember Shetler: I would like to just get some information from him on the effect of that beet juice and that pretreatment and see if it really is being as effective as what we’ve been sold on. So I’d like to, you know, sometime down the road here before next season anyway, that we look at that real hard to see if that’s something that really is being beneficial for us. But anyway, thank you.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, Madam President, the last matter of business is the Amendments to the Salary Ordinance. First, under Sheriff/Jail, I move that we amend salary line 1051-0356 Confinement Officer as previously approved, setting the 2008 salary at $36,726. The current employee’s hire date was January 16^th of 1997, the base salary at $34,226 plus three increments at $500. Public Defender, amend salary line 1303-1620 Chief Public Defender as previously adopted, setting the salary in at 112,405. County Assessor/Reassessment, move we amend salary line 2490-1090-1990 as previously approved. PTABOA salary line 2490-1091-1990 Extra Help as previously approved. And Cum Bridge salary line 2030-1850 Union Overtime as previously approved. I make that in the form of a motion.

President Abell: Under Old Business, we still have a couple of board appointments left. I do have someone in mind for PTABOA, Mr. Weaver. And I’m going to be talking to that gentleman today, and be able to make that appointment once he tells me that he will accept that position. Is there anyone else that has anything under old business?

President Abell: Under the new business, we have the ordinance establishing the mileage expense reimbursement rate. Do we have to have that – do you have that?

Everybody has a copy of the ordinance to increase the – I don’t have my copy of it. Does anyone want to make a motion to waive the rules and vote on this in one hearing?

President Abell: Now I will entertain a motion to accept the ordinance establishing the mileage expense reimbursement rate.

Councilmember Shetler: I’m not finding my copy at the moment, but if I recall from reading it, that this is really just setting it at a flat line, isn’t it? Is that correct? We talked about the possibility of having it a little bit more fluid, that it could go up with the state or federal standards. Is there a possibility of that being written into the ordinance? And I didn’t know if that was still possible or if we can change the language in there to include that this was something that would become a little bit more automatic and would just follow the state guidelines. And I’m not finding my copy to tell you where to insert that language.

Jeff Ahlers: I guess the question, I’m not sure, that this amount may be higher than either the state or the federal. I don’t know whether anybody – it’s the same? I mean, we can do whatever you guys want. We would need to – I guess if you want it to go into effect now, I’d suggest you pass this and then we can pass another one amending it and adding in the language you’re requesting or, you can not pass this one, you know, and we can amend it. The question is whether or not you want to keep control of making the decisions as to when you want to raise it or whether you want to allow it to be automatic. So, I mean, I guess there’s pros and cons to both. You don’t have to revisit it if its automatic, but then I guess you also lose that control to determine where you are. So...

Councilmember Shetler: I guess my biggest concern is, and I agree, passing this as it stands so that we don’t delay this any longer is probably the best advise for now, I guess my concern is that today, with the rising fuel costs, asking employees to dip into their pockets for it, can be a pretty tough thing to do. So I’m looking at something that would be a little bit more responsive, I think, to our employees, on a little quicker basis than what we’ve done in the past. In the past we’ve reacted to this about once every three or four years. And this would be something that would become, I think, a little bit more annual, as an automatic. So that’s what I am personally looking towards.

Jeff Ahlers: The one thing that I would point out then is that it means that someone will need to monitor that and I guess send out notices from time to time as to when that changes. In other words, someone will not be able to pull up the ordinance and say what is the county reimbursement rate, because that may no longer be correct. So that would be, you know, one issue there. But, I mean, someone would just need to monitor that and, I guess, send out, if that’s what you want to do, notices from time to time. But you wouldn’t have anything then of record, it would just be tied into the state statute, I guess, is what you would want to do, right?

Councilmember Winnecke: Mr. Fluty pointed out that his office sees all of those bills, so if we changed the ordinance down the road to make it indexed to what the state reimbursement level is, he can catch that and pass that along to us.

President Abell: Mr. Fluty, when our employees travel for a state called meeting and we get reimbursed by the state, do we get reimbursed at the state level?

President Abell: They just reimburse for what? The motel rooms or the meeting, or what do they reimburse us for?

Bill Fluty: On the state called meetings, they’re not reimbursing us for anything.

President Abell: No state called meeting reimbursement? State Board of Accounts meetings?

President Abell: Okay, then I guess it doesn’t make any difference where we set it according to the state, they don’t care then.

President Abell: Do we want to go ahead and vote on this? Maybe, Mr. Shetler, you might want to get together with Mr. Fluty and maybe might come up with an amendment you might want to add to this at some later date so we could go ahead and get this in line for our employees now? Is that alright with you? Okay, roll call vote please.

President Abell: Mr. Ahlers is reminding me that we’re all aware that this was the first and final reading of this since we waived our – we passed our rules, yes, that we could do this in one reading, so it has passed, and it raises the county’s reimbursement rate to 40 cents a mile.

President Abell: The April Council filing date is March 13^th to all department heads, and I understand that the Treasurer, Ms. Tuley, has something that she wants to address with us.

Z Tuley: I would like to start out by saying that I realize that my very first responsibility is to the taxpayers of this community. I have attended a DLGF meeting on Friday in Indianapolis; I have also attended a South District meeting for the Indiana County Treasurer’s Association yesterday. We’ve had some very disturbing news to say the least. I would like to provide you with a little bit of history before we go into the plight of our finances. Something that the state government has always told us local people is that we spend too much money at the local level. In 2004, I would like to remind you all, that we had to pay for a program to do a rebill for a homestead calculation error from the state. We were reimbursed at that time for the postage and the paper, but we were never reimbursed for that programming, so we had to do a programming to do a rebill at that time. In ‘07, we got to do a program for a rebate check. Although we had the capability and had already paid for a rebill, they decided a rebate would be better. Yes, the state did supply us the money to deliver to the taxpayers, but they did not pay for the programming. In ‘08, the COLTS form, as I call it, the Comparison of Levied Tax Statement, becomes a mandatory item for the entire county. Back in 2004, I piloted the project and the Councilmembers here paid for that project out of our taxpayer’s dollars. We were not fully reimbursed by the state. We were not reimbursed for the amount that was set aside. We did have to make a settlement with the state for even less than what they had set aside. So these are some of the things that you, at the local level, have paid for in order to assist the state with what they have required and they have mandated. Also, in the past, you have paid for two years worth for me to sit on the Uniform Tax Bill Committee. I have always been very grateful and appreciative to the taxpayers that pay for this, and for you to allow me to be a part of these things because I think when you have a local voice in what’s going on at the state, its very important and things turn out to be a little more accurate, rather than winding up with a mandate that we had during the switch over to the market value, where the state had put into law a requirement of something that was simply impossible to do with a comparison at that time. So I was very thrilled to be in the pilot that produced this COLTS form. I am the only county that has ever done it. I am the only county still, to this day, to have ever sent it. So, therefore, it has been a one voice task to address the issues and the problems that we’ve had with this, and it was very, very difficult to get an ear up at the state house to correct some of the things. One more thing, the uniform tax system that I worked on and you paid for my travel and my expenses and everything to attend, we worked very diligently on. I wished I would have brought up the folder. The folder is about this thick worth of material. At one point in time, I had it all memorized so that we could work with the Auditor and the Treasurer and the Assessor in a uniform fashion where we didn’t repeat: dual tasking was going to be eliminated, hopefully, for more efficient and a smoother transition when we go to do the bills and such projects. I found out on Friday that the funding has been cut for this project. It is not going to be going forward at this time. So you have also spent your money there and that’s something that’s not going to come about or at least not any time soon. Although I think it is a good thing. What I’m here to tell you today is that state government may be delivering our biggest financial blow yet. What I learned yesterday is that the state has decided that this form is going to account for the tax statement itself. This is probably the most impractical thing I have ever heard of. This is supposed to be intended, the spirit of the law was to be intended to explain to the taxpayers how much their tax bills were calculated for and how, and how much, compare it to the year before so that they could see where the rise and the falls were at. It was strictly for information. This form cannot be submitted, otherwise, the taxpayer loses it and unless they make a copy, this form cannot be submitted to the bank for payment. I cannot process over 100,000 tax bills in my office. It also conflicts with another law that says that the real estate statement and the receipt shall be kept on hand for ten years before its destroyed. This is in the retention schedule. This is the tax bill. Those are designed to be about the size of your standard deposit ticket that you and I would have in our personal checking accounts. They have MICR encoding. When we print in-house they have MICR encoding just in case you have all kinds of scenarios as to why someone didn’t get a bill. Either we didn’t get it back and it really wasn’t mailed to the right address because the taxpayer failed to inform us that they moved. We have to print them another bill in-house, which will have MICR, they can then take it to the bank. The other thing is when we have changes of ownership. The original bill is sent to the owner of the property at the time of record. So if at any time during the year a taxpayer sells his home, he’s probably got the bill, doesn’t give it to the new owner, the new owner can’t pay the fall, and these kind of things. We are constantly having, and we have all kinds of businesses that send in checks with no tax bill at all. If we have the proper code that has been submitted in paper form or something, we can reprint the bill, run the bill, and by law, we are to have those, and we are to retain those in-house for ten years. So what’s going on at the state really isn’t making a whole lot of sense, certainly not much common sense has been applied to this thought. When taxpayers pay at the bank, we earn interest on that money that night. We’re earning interest on money I don’t even know we have until the next morning. This is a crucial part of our interest earning. Its also a crucial part of accuracy. We cannot have these kinds of forms mailed in for my staff to hand key. You will have multiple errors. We need it automated. We need this tax bill. So we were told that the legislators have now decided, in particular, the governor, that he doesn’t like this design. He wants it redesigned. We were not submitted a new version because they said that they are still working on it. Its in conference committee, and its wrapped up somehow or going to be in House Bill 1001 and they used the term “germane”. All I know about the term ‘germane” is some kind of attachment, so I guess that’s an attachment that’s getting ready to come. I was also told at the Friday meeting at the DLGF, that we need to hold up. Every county needs to hold up. You cannot bill because you are going to be given a new form. This one is not the one. Just like our programmers that you’ve already paid for this package, other vendors from around the state had already completed or 90% completed this programming. And they told us they’re changing it. They’re taking out this block in its entirety. They’re lengthening this block here. There are going to be different messages. They have changed the name. That offends me because I spent hours finding the – I mean, that’s intended to be funny. You all go ahead and laugh. But the state has an acronym for their project and its called PACER. And so I wanted an acronym for my project called COLTS. But that’s what this is. It’s a comparison of levied tax statement and they’ve changed the name to be something similar, to PTRC, Property Tax Replacement Credit. So I think that when we are talking in acronyms, I think its going to muddy that understanding, perhaps, with the taxpayers. They have also decided that if any form of this area is going to exist in their final decision, which won’t be made until March 14^th at the end of the session, if then, because if they don’t get everything that the governor wants, he’s going to hold them for a special session. They’re going to put this variable data, then, on the back. This is what’s on the back right now. This, right now, can be printed on the back, we already have paper, ready to go to the print shop, pre-done. There is no variable data on here. This information is how to file an appeal, who to call, what your exemptions can possibly be if you qualify, go visit the Auditor, it says so on all of this. They’re going to put the variable data on the back. When they do that, you and I know how difficult it is. Just running copies is fairly quick. You put variable data on the back, you’ve got a duplex. You make it personalized for everybody, you’re really slowing down the print shop process. They did eliminate one problem that I have given you all copies of and that’s the percentage column. I don’t know if I even have that – thanks to Ms. Musgrave using the programmer that I used at the time that we did the COLTS pilot, the programmer was Kathy McCarter. We had studied and examined the flaws with this column. They are incredibly deceitful to the taxpayers. It leaves the taxpayers angry, frustrated. They also think that the Treasurer has no sense of math, even though it’s mathematically correct, it’s a ridiculous outcome. Now, mine came out, what actually happened here. But I have given each and every one of you, as of yesterday, which the last update was at, believe it or not, 1:30 a.m. on Friday. Kathy McCarter had made a final change at that time. And that eliminated the percentage column at that time. So at least somebody is finally listening that that column needs to come off. However, it came off earlier and she informed me that she had put it back on because somebody decided that they liked it. I have the names of those who I have told are in this conference committee. But three and a half years ago is when I did this project. I sent this very project report to you. I sent it to the entire General Assembly and now during a crucial year, where all of our neighbors are struggling to make it financially, half of them or more didn’t get the bill on time at all. Vanderburgh County has worked very hard, the Township Assessors have been with the program, Bill has been with the program, the County Assessor has been with the program, and I have been with the program to always bill on time. Our neighbors are struggling financially every time there’s a delay. If you’re going to have a delay, you’re not going to have a June 30^th settlement. I have no idea what this is going to do to the county finances, the city finances, the school finances. If we don’t have money coming in starting toward mid to end of April, we start to hurt because there is no way I could have targeted investments for this time because I didn’t know this was going to happen. This also does the same thing for the schools. I think our state is delivering our worst financial blow. And we’re not our worst financial enemy, at this time. The other thing that I would like to say is that we were also told that the DLGF has four counties on their desk at this time. We were told yesterday, as I understand it, its going to take two and a half months from the time that the legislative session is over to – at the earliest – to give us a rate. That’s May 1. That turns out to be May 1. So at this critical point where we have a short session, we have everyone scurrying around to try to find tax relief, we have some members of the General Assembly worried about what a piece of paper looks like, which I was very proud of my paper. If it was so bad, I think that it would have been addressed three and a half years ago, its just that somebody has decided that they wanted to put their own thumbprint on it or they just decided for whatever reason, they would like to see it changed. Could it be an improvement? Perhaps. Will it be an improvement? I have no idea because we’re not going to get the final draft until the session is over, so we’re told. This is the pickle that we’re in. I don’t see how we can properly provide service to this county without going ahead and printing these tax bills. Just as in the past, we will use the process at the print shop called nesting, where it will nest the COLTS form with the bill, they’ll be slammed into the same envelope, and yes, its all personalized. Now, what we need to decide, which I haven’t had time to do, obviously, I didn’t want to be awake all night and then have to talk here, we don’t know if there will be penalty for non-compliance. Our COLTS form as it exists bears everything that the state has required. Its not the design that they chose. But it bears all of the information. We can go forward, I sent out, what you guys have, an email to every legislator in the House, in the Senate that knows me or that I’ve heard of, or that I’ve met. I did not send it to the entire General Assembly, but I did send it to most, asking them to put the COLTS form changes off and the rest of the counties off, we’ll go ahead with ours, because its already set, for ‘09, at least, so that they can have everything that they want. They have very important matters on their hands other than to worry about what design this is in. I wanted to make you aware of this. I wanted to let you know that I always take my oath of office very seriously. I have never purposely been defiant of the law. But I want to remind you as I did a legislator in the past, it ends with, to the best of my ability. That oath. To the best of my ability, I can get these bills out of time, but I think that we all need to talk and discuss and look at the financial situation of the county and see if we want to wait and comply with the new look of the form. If I’m going to get through to anybody in the General Assembly to actually postpone the COLTS form until ‘09, or what we’re going to do. I also need to get with the city and the school to see what it does to them.

President Abell: Thank you, Ms. Tuley, I’m sure there are some questions and we will take Councilmen’s questions. But I do have one question: are you ready to send tax bills right now?

Bill Fluty: Well, we’re not that close. There are still quite a few steps left in sending the tax bills out after the certification gets approved and then the tax rates. The 1782 notices, that actually takes two weeks. Then a change that we didn’t have, we usually do a public hearing before we have tax rates, that’s been changed this year and that’s going to come after the 1782 notices. So that’s going to be eight days we may lose in that process, so it’s a pretty tight process right now to make a May 10^th billing. So this is similar to where we’ve been for the last couple of years and we’ve always made it, but –

President Abell: So are we going to be able to get tax bills, if you ignored everything you heard yesterday, would we be getting tax bills out as normal?

Bill Fluty: I am hopeful, but there is a lot of work to be done and I understand that the process isn’t moving as fast as it was in previous years. The two things, if you can’t make a May 10^th, which I think ours is actually May 12^th, maybe you make another date in May but you still collect the money and distribute the money before June 30^th. And then you’re, in effect, right on schedule. If you can’t have collections by the 12^th, I think it is this year, but maybe a week later or two weeks later, but you still get the money in and give it out before the 30^th. Then the school, city, the county, and the taxing units do have money to run.

Bill Fluty: There’s still other issues, yes, but everybody is expecting over $100,000,000 and they’re expecting it by June 30^th. And they need that to operate. The consequences are, if that money is going to be delayed, they’re going to have to go out and borrow, and they’re going to have to –

Z Tuley: Because I won’t be able to issue an advancement and also, you know, when I’m getting that money in, in April, I’m earning interest on that, and that’s all lost if its not coming in. And if you have to borrow, you’re not only not earning, you’re paying interest. But I don’t know if we can make it or not. Its going to be between the Auditor and the DLGF. I’ll do whatever it takes, like I’ve always done. We’ve worked 12 hour days before and I can’t stand it, but we do it.

President Abell: I think we have some Councilmen who have questions. I saw Mr. Goebel’s hand first, let’s start over there and just work our way around.

Councilmember Goebel: Good morning, Z. For each of the changes on the form, does Vanderburgh County encumber that cost or does the state reimburse us?

Councilmember Goebel: And how many times since ‘04 have we changed this particular form? Do you know?

Councilmember Goebel: The only question I have, I don’t know who can answer, but when the state legislature ends its session and they put forth the caps that’s being proposed, when will that kick in? That’s not for this particular billing year, is that, or will that be factored?

Z Tuley: I believe it is but it’s going to hurt us in a minimum capacity, is that right?

Bill Fluty: I don’t know where its actually going to turn out but they do have, I think the one percent is in place for this year, but that’s not going to impact us very much. But everything is still on the table because they may make some changes to – it would be hard pressed to make a lot of changes and we could implement them and actually bill timely. And I think that’s Z’s issue today.

Councilmember Goebel: Okay, so a one percent cap on homeowners will kick in for this particular billing phase, is that correct?

Z Tuley: It could, but we don’t know that until they come out of session, I don’t think, do we?

Z Tuley: There’s so many unknowns that I’m at a loss – that’s why I had to come before you today because I couldn’t sit here and get a grip on what needs to be done, how we should proceed.

Councilmember Goebel: If the state does not pass the new rates, are we going off the old rates for this billing now or – that’s my question, I guess.

Bill Fluty: No. We couldn’t do that. I think other counties have billed their previous rates but I think that would be a last resort. I don’t think, even though we might be delayed, I don’t think that would be an action we would want to take. Back to your first question: it’s a two percent for homesteads this year, which doesn’t have an effect on Vanderburgh County’s.

Councilmember Winnecke: Well first I think you’re very diplomatic to say that “this is the pickle we’re in.” I mean, the longer you talked, only one question kind of came to mind and you kind of answered it. I mean, what are the ramifications if we just, we get the rates approved by the DLGF and we proceed on our schedule, what’s going to happen? Are we going to go to tax jail or something?

Z Tuley: I was, I asked that question to someone that has the power to make that decision and I was told not to go there. But, my first duty isn’t to the – necessarily the pleasure of the state when I’m providing the information that they actually ask for. My first duty is to the taxpayers.

Councilmember Winnecke: I would agree with that. I mean, I think everyone here appreciates your candor.

Councilmember Winnecke: You know, its just an observation, you know, when the reassessment stuff all kind of bubbled up, it happened here because we got all of our tax bills and everything out on time and there was an uproar here. And, you know, months later, Marion County was way behind the eight ball and it didn’t become a state-wide issue until it happened there. And once again, we seem like we’re in the same position where Vanderburgh County is on time, doing its job, everyone working cooperatively, except, you know, we may get held – holding the bag here.

Z Tuley: There’s no screaming in Marion County at this time because part of Mike’s question was, are we going to be forced to use last year’s rates. Marion County was forced to use last year’s rates. So that’s where they are. They have a clean-up bill to send out so that they can get everything back in line. So Marion County is behind again and the year of the switch over to market value, Vanderburgh County and Wells County were the only two that had a May 10 deadline, and we have never failed not to make it. And I accredit that to everyone involved because, as Treasurer, I’m the last link on the chain. So if you don’t have your township and your county and your Auditor stepping up to the plate, it doesn’t happen that the bills go out on time. I’m just part of that package. And I think Vanderburgh County, we should be allowed to pat ourselves on the back. Other counties have failed to do so. They just say well, its too much work, we’re late, we’re not on time and, oh well. But it has put them in somewhat of an irresponsible fiscal condition.

Councilmember Leader: I have two questions: you don’t know if we’d be penalized, number one, you just mentioned that. If that’s the case, you just mentioned a clean-up bill. I assume I know what that is, but for the sake of all of us, could you state what that is?

Z Tuley: Apparently, Marion County sent out a provisional bill. We’ve never had to do this because we’ve always been on time. But because of their massive increases up there last year, they were held at the rates from the previous year so they sent out another bill, so they’re going to have to send out another one in order to kind of offset that jump from what they did have, to what they had the year before. But it just can’t jump as high as where it was and I don’t know what all finances has to be reworked to come to that new figure, but Bill can tell you it would be – its an astronomical chore.

Councilmember Leader: Does that mean three bills this year for Marion County residents, the cleanup bill and two more or –

Z Tuley: Scream at the legislators? I really don’t know except that I think we’re going to have to be together on the decision. I don’t think that it should fall or I should take it upon myself to decide to go forward. I can do that. But I don’t think that it’s wise. I think that we’re all in this together. You all set the budget, you all have to pay the bills, I’m just the collector. I can make this call and I can go forward, and it can all be on me, but I think it needs to be a collective decision. I’m dragging you all down with me.

Z Tuley: But I do need to get with the schools and see what kind of financial devastation they’re going to face and I need to get with Lisa.

Councilmember Leader: And Z, my question is, can you and Mr. Fluty perhaps give us some consolidated statement, if you will, so that we can speak intelligently to our legislators? I mean, we can send the emails and letters and phone calls, but I think it’s a very complex issue and whether or not we agree with the statement when we get the statement, I think it would be nice to have a simplified –

Z Tuley: And then you all sign off on it, or do you want to send it individually, but you want a uniform statement?

Councilmember Leader: Well, we don’t have to use it as a uniform statement, it would be nice to understand, I mean, this is a rather complex issue, complex letter you have before us that you sent them. I’m just looking for a little clarity when I speak to my legislator on behalf of the citizens of Vanderburgh County. I’m not the Treasurer. I mean, I need to understand more clearly how to speak to them and that’s just a suggestion I have as an individual.

Councilmember Sutton: Kind of give us a little bit of understanding, too, Z, on the timeliness that you’re dealing with here on this issue and when you’re anticipating that action will be taken from the state on this issue. Obviously, the legislature is about to close their session here rather soon. Is that the timetable that you’re working under?

Z Tuley: If we do that, if the session ends on time, and they’re not held over, then there will be a form and I don’t know how rapidly it will get to us, but at least that will be the last day for changes. I don’t know if we would get that, the new design, overnight, or if it would be five days, ten days, later. Then we will have to have our programmer reprogram everything so that when it goes to the print shop, X dollars actually appears in the right spot. And then our printer is also going to have to adjust their programming on their side because what they’ve got now is what we’ve done for years. So they’re going to have to modify and make the changes on their end as well. And then, we’ll have to worry about where we are in line at the DLGF to get the rates and then how quickly can we move. I don’t know. I can tell you that we can move as quickly as possible, but from what Dan Jones said yesterday, he’s the assistant budget director for the DLGF, he said, after the session closes, you can just count on two and a half months. Well, that’s into May.

Councilmember Sutton: Well, I guess the other thing that comes to mind is trying to get a sense, you know, you’ve obviously been very involved on a state-wide basis on tax related issues and been president of the Treasurer’s Association and all. How many any other counties are as aware of this issue to the level where you are? I mean, is the Association able to get many other counties on board with how this will impact them and what they might do to respond?

Z Tuley: All of the southern counties heard about it yesterday. All of the northern counties are hearing about it today. There was a complete uproar in the room, needless to say.

Z Tuley: The Treasurer’s Association and I don’t quite see eye to eye on some matters. They feel a little more obligated to be cooperative, is the word they used, rather than compromise, and I don’t see a lot of – when I don’t see a lot of common sense coming out of something, I have a very difficult time in wanting to be cooperative.

Councilmember Sutton: Well, I’m asking these questions because, I mean, we could very well, here locally, with the different bodies: the Council, Commissioners, School Board, I mean, we could put together some resolution that you could send on that might help to spur on a better understanding of what needs to really occur here, but I’m not really sure if a resolution just coming from Vanderburgh County alone has the strength that you may have coming from multiple counties if there is some joint language that you guys can agree on, that then goes on to the DLGF and the others involved with this. Do you think that’s something that you guys might consider –

Z Tuley: I don’t think it will come out of the Indiana County Treasurer’s Association because I’m not the president this year. But it might could happen with our neighbors, because every county is in this pickle, as you put it. Every county, the state has set us up for a financial blow statewide, in every county. If I can’t make it out of the pocket with a May 10 date or somewhere close, there’s not a county out there that can make it. And that’s been proven through history. And its going to be tight, if I make it at all.

President Abell: Who else, Mr. Goebel, did you have another question? Mr. Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Z, repeat what you said a few moments ago. Of course, you were given notice yesterday, but the other counties throughout the state are being given notice today and –

Z Tuley: The northern half is getting the information today. The southern half got their information yesterday.

Councilmember Raben: I think we have to wait a few more days to see what the outcome is after everybody else is given notice.

Councilmember Raben: The counties that seem to matter the most in terms of the state.

Councilmember Raben: I mean, they’re being given notice today, things will probably – the outcome may be different a week from now anyway.

Z Tuley: If we could just get Marion County to cry a little louder it would help. We did get on the map, guys, but they barely know that we’re here.

Councilmember Goebel: Just a quick one, will changing the form or using the same form we have now, change the amount of tax revenue that we bring in?

Councilmember Goebel: Then I think common sense will say you should move forward as soon as you get the rates and this body, I think, would be willing to gamble that when you are taken off to jail, we will visit you.

President Abell: I think it is the consensus of this Council that we will stand behind you and we do think that the best interest of the public is to go ahead and get our tax bills out. It’s a lot easier to get forgiveness than it is permission. So we’ll just worry about what Indianapolis wants to do later. And maybe we could see what Frankfort would like to do for us. Mr. Ahlers has something he’d like to comment on.

Jeff Ahlers: One of the things I wanted to ask you was that, I mean, I guess its difficult to deal with is, since we don’t have a law to look at to interpret. But does the law require that the PACER or COLTS form, whichever one has to be used, be actually mailed with the bill or I guess following up on Mr. Goebel’s comments, I guess, my thought would be, can we not, since no law has been passed yet, we’re still following the current law, you send the forms you always send, the bills you always send, if somehow the law changes and says, you were supposed to have mailed another form, can we then just follow up and mail that form? I understand we undertake the cost of mailing, but at least then we’re getting our bills out on time, getting money in time, and then technically, may still be in compliance with the statute or do you think there is something that says, the statute says it has to be mailed with the bill? I guess the bill could be mailed again, too, but I’m kind of wondering if we can’t comply with both or is that just too onerous and not possible?

Z Tuley: It’s in 6-1.1-22-8, Indiana Code, and it says that it is to be mailed at the time of the tax bill. My understanding of the law was that it always had to be included with the tax bill, but Candy pulled the code for me yesterday. She reviewed it and she said no, it did not say that, but it is to be mailed at the time.

Z Tuley: If we’re going to be in non-compliance, that might be the lesser of the evils that we at least did it but it just wasn’t the time schedule that we were supposed to follow.

Jeff Ahlers: I guess one of the questions that I had is, what is the soonest that you can mail your tax bills? I assume there is a deadline.

Jeff Ahlers: So there is no statute that says bills can’t be mailed before a certain date, correct?

Jeff Ahlers: So, I mean, technically, I mean, dependent on how long this drags on, I suppose, I don’t know how long the session is supposed to go, when its supposed to end.

Jeff Ahlers: See, most laws, whenever they pass them at the General Assembly, they always take, that’s why in Indiana, July 1, is because our sessions always end in late spring, so you know, it would be unusual if they make something effective in March or April 1, you know, before people have had notice and, you know, are able to comply. So then if its not effective until July 1, we would still be complying under the old statute. And so I’m wondering –

Jeff Ahlers: – how they’re going to do that because that’s an unusual manner to proceed in.

Z Tuley: If we do that, Mr. Ahlers, we would actually be sending out a minimal information item. These have been removed and part of this has been removed from this section because this is simply a document for which the taxpayer to submit their payment with. This form here has an annual total. We are never demanding an annual total on May 10. Its broke in half and so since this is duplicate information as to what is on there, and in the past we mailed them in the same envelope, the information is on there, its no longer on here because there is no sense in paying for duplicate print on something that’s in the same envelope. So its basically a minimum information bill. Oh, the address is, the street address has also been added to here but then these boxes have been removed.

President Abell: Anyone else have a question? I think maybe Ms. Leader’s recommendation is a good one, that you get with Mr. Fluty, get us some information. And if it comes to pass by March 14^th that we have to do something, we have another meeting at the end of this month. We would encourage you to come back. Maybe by then, some of us can even sit down with you and figure out what we’re going to do on this.

Z Tuley: Okay, thank you for hearing me at the last minute, but after yesterday, I went – I have to be there.

President Abell: We do have a resolution to deal with this morning that you didn’t know about because I didn’t know about it until this morning, myself. It’s the resolution supporting the construction of a pedestrian overpass at the intersection of U.S. 41 and Washington Avenue. This, my understanding is, I haven’t read it because I’ve been sitting here without the ability to do so, but this is to go to the federal and the state to ascertain if there are any funds available to build an overpass so the students that have to cross 41 to get to Bosse High School can do so without having to be on Highway 41, actually be able to walk in an overpass. And this has been discussed for a long time in this community. The City Council has done a resolution, the Commissioners, I think, did theirs last night or maybe last week, and we have a copy of their – almost exactly like theirs only submitting County Council instead of County Commissioners. And I would entertain a motion to accept this resolution, have us sign it and get it back. We also have to do a letter of support with it which we could do, which would virtually just say that we support the resolution attached to the letter. So I’ll entertain a motion to that effect.

Councilmember Sutton: President Abell, on this resolution, it’s calling for a study, I guess, that would be done prior to, I guess, any work or anything proceeding forward. So is that something that we’ll hear something back on or are they seeking funding from the Council in support of that study? Who would pay for that? Any idea?

President Abell: My understanding is that they will not be asking the Council for financial assistance, this is all part of the grant that they are seeking to get this money, the assistance in it. But this study has to be done, I guess, to see how many students actually cross 41, actually live on the opposite side of there. And I don’t think there would be a problem getting some feedback on it. We could just ask for it. Any other questions? That’s too easy. Roll call vote please.

President Abell: I have a meeting immediately after this with the members of CAJE, and I see many of them in the audience. I assume that’s what you’re here for, is for that meeting. Yes, and I need all Councilmembers to stay and sign the resolution for Bosse High School. Did you –

President Abell: Well, actually, you made your presentation last week, but if you can make it quickly, I’ll allow you to come up and make a couple of comments.

Joseph Easley: I understood we were on the agenda, so I just assumed that we still had time to do that. I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you about one of the most important issues, which is affordable housing and I appreciate your interest in that. Mitch, go ahead and pass out some information. We shared some statistics last time and this gives –

Joseph Easley: Joseph Easley, Pastor of Central United Methodist Church and co-chair of Congregations Acting for Justice and Empowerment. Approximately 15,000 families in Evansville are identified as very low income. What that means is, the median income is about 58,000, very low income is half of that, so a little less than 29,000, that means 15,000 families, households in this community make less than a household income of $29,000. Of those, two/thirds of them are housing insecure, in that they spend more than 30 percent of their income for housing. That’s a national standard that a family is in fairly good shape if they stay under 30 percent of their income spent on housing. Its even worse than that because fully 50 percent of very low income households spend more than 50 percent of their income on housing. Let me ask you, if you spent 50 percent of your income on housing, how would your budget work.? Think about it. If you were very low income and you were spending 50 percent of your income on housing and you had the rest to live on, you would be in deep trouble. The problem also is that we have a very old housing stock in this community. And 25 percent of housing in Evansville is substandard. That means people are dealing with more rodent problems, with leaks, with old heating and air conditioning systems, with a lack of weatherization. And the folks who are affected by this are the backbone of the community, the working poor people who teach and childcare, work in preschool, are dispatchers, who work in many factories, emergency medical technicians. These are statistics, but we have an actual person we’d like to share with you that Mitch Gieselman would read if you will give us time for that.

President Abell: I’ll have to ask you to make it brief because we do have some other business to take care of. All of us have other places, but that will be fine if you will make it brief.

Mitch Gieselman: Thank you, Madam President. I’m Mitch Gieselman, as Joe said. I’m the pastor at Aldersgate United Methodist Church. I would simply suggest that, I’ve never been in a position of knowing what it’s like to fear where I would be living a week from now. And so I would share with you a testimonial of someone who’s story that is.

“Ever since I can remember, I’ve had a problem with finding suitable housing. When I was a child, I would ask my mom, why can’t we stay in one house for more than six months? We never really received a straight answer. But now that I’m grown with four kids of my own, I truly understand. I’ve went to half the schools in Evansville, Mt. Vernon and Boonville, due to us moving so much. I could have had a 4.0 GPA or close to it if we could have stayed put for a while. I vowed when I had children that I would not move around and have them change schools like I had to. I moved out of the house at the age of 17 and, boy, was that scary. I lost my first apartment because I didn’t stay in school, which led me to lose my social security check for my deceased father. I ended up in an old apartment that truly needed some work done to it. The gas and electric bills were pretty high even back then. I believe by the time I had my fourth child I had moved around five times, not because I wanted to, but either the landlord would sell the property or it was foreclosed on. I moved into a low income apartment complex and stayed for three and a half years until the crime and insects started getting uncontrollable. I was able to rent a pretty decent house in 1994. I’m still in that house by the grace of God only. I was on section 8 from 1994 until about three years ago when both my husband and I got halfway decent employment. The section 8 office didn’t waste any time letting us know that they were only going to pay $15 of our $475 rent. It seems like they never let you catch up. I mean, yes, we were making over minimum wage, but without any benefits or insurance. So now we have to struggle each month with medical bills, food, utilities, and full rent. It is almost as if you’re being punished for getting a job. We are dealing with this problem with the help of the good Lord and I know he won’t put more on us than we can bear. I work with a lot of people who are less fortunate than me on a daily basis and it really hurts me to know that even though I am there to help these people, there is no place to send them for shelter. There are only a handful of shelters in Evansville and they are filled to their capacity. Just like the condo, loft apartments are sprouting up downtown. Our city needs more affordable housing and more family shelters. I ask you to please help in the fight against homelessness. Please provide a fund for the people of this great city so that we won’t have people sleeping in their cars and on the streets. The children need to get a chance to get a good education and not have to end up barely graduating because their parents were not able to give them a suitable roof over their heads.”

Joseph Easley: This story is multiplied 10,000 times over in this community. Mitch, go ahead and pass out the second sheet, with your permission. Again, a housing trust fund is flexible. It could go for a variety of things. It’s locally controlled. It meets the local needs and here are some of the advantages: it brings in new income to families and to the community, creates jobs, it makes a significant difference in school children who have stable housing and doing well, graduating and therefore, contributing, rather than draining the community later. It affects health issues related to children and, in the long run, a housing trust fund, affordable housing trust fund, pays for itself by what it does in the community. Recording fees are one of the most popular solutions in the 600 trust funds across the country because they’re directly tied to housing and they’re raising and they’re a designated stream of income which is very important is to have a source of income or multiple sources of income which feeds into it. The cost is minimal, the assistant from the office that gave information last time, the Recorder’s office, said it would take bills from $20 to $24.50. Do you think $4.50 is going to stop somebody from buying a house or refinancing their mortgage? This is a first step. It’s a significant step toward raising two million dollars a year in this community that could really, really make a dent in the problem. This is an immediate step. Yes, we want to go and work with you and work with the Mayor, who is committed to this, to change state law so most of that money stays, more of that money stays here. But let’s don’t let the fact that some of the money is going to be in a state pool, that we can still apply for, stop us from doing now what can be done to begin a process in making a dent in this. Thank you for your time.

President Abell: Anyone have anything they...? Evidently not. Okay. And I will be here after the meeting. Any more business to come before the Council? Anyone? We’re adjourned.

(There being no further business to come before the board, the meeting was adjourned at 9:41 a.m.)

1051-1130-0356	Confinement Officer	273.00	273.00
1051-1301	Civilian Overtime	3,000.00	0.00
1051-1531	Civilian Shift Diff.	2,000.00	0.00
1051-1951	Civilian Teamsters Ed.	728.00	0.00
Total		6,001.00	273.00

1303-1620-1303	Chief Public Defender	3,286.00	3,286.00
1303-3948	Death Penalty	175,000.00	0.00
Total		178,286.00	3,286.00

2010-1750	Clothing Allowance	1,000.00
2010-1910	PERF	1,147.00
Total		2,147.00

2042-30090	Child Welfare Services	33,926.00	33,926.00
Total		33,926.00	33,926.00

2490-1090-1990	Extra Help	8,100.00	8,100.00
2490-1090-1900	FICA	620.00	620.00
Total		8,720.00	8,720.00

2490-1091-1990	Extra Help	4,300.00	4,300.00
2490-1091-1900	FICA	329.00	329.00
Total		4,629.00	4,629.00