VANDERBURGH COUNTY COUNCIL

MINUTES

JANUARY 8, 2003

The Vanderburgh County Council met in session this 8^th day of January, 2003 in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex. The meeting was called to order at 3:35 p.m. by Vanderburgh County Auditor Bill Fluty.

Bill Fluty: Eric, could you please open the meeting?

Eric Williams: Oh yes, oh yes, the Vanderburgh County Council is now in session pursuant to adjournment.

Bill Fluty: Thank you. Madam Secretary, could you take the roll call?

Bill Fluty: Thank you. Could you please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance?

(Pledge of Allegiance was given)

Bill Fluty: The Chair will now entertain motions for the President of the Vanderburgh County Council. Lloyd?

Councilmember Winnecke: Mr. Chairman, at this time I nominate James Raben to be president.

Councilmember Bassemier: Second.

Bill Fluty: I have a second. May I have a roll call vote?

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Bill Fluty: Congratulations, Jim.

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Raben: Give me just a moment to get organized and we’ll begin the meeting. Okay, I’d like to thank all my fellow Councilmembers for their vote of confidence and I’ll do my best not to let you down.

President Raben: At this time the Chair would entertain a motion for Vice President.

Councilmember Wortman: I’d like to make a motion for Ed Bassemier.

Councilmember Winnecke: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Madam Secretary, I would ask that you take a roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Raben: Okay, next the Chair would like to appoint County Council Attorney Jeff Ahlers. Do we need to take a vote on that? I’ll take a motion for that.

Councilmember Winnecke: So moved.

Councilmember Bassemier: Second.

President Raben: Okay. Madam Secretary?

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Raben: Okay, the Chair would like to appoint for Personnel Chairman, Curt Wortman; Finance Chairman, Lloyd Winnecke.

President Raben: Now the Chair would entertain approval of minutes for December 4^th, 16^th, 18^th, and 30^th.

Councilmember Winnecke: So moved.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none, Madam?

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Raben: Okay, next the appropriations and the Chair will turn over this part of the meeting to our newly elected Finance Chairman, Lloyd Winnecke.

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, here we go.

SHERIFF

Councilmember Winnecke: First the Sheriff, line item 1050-1130-0048 Patrolman, $1,449. I’ll move approval.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

SHERIFF                                                                 REQUESTED     APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

JAIL

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay Jail, Detention Officer, line item 1051-1130-0304 in the amount of $205, I’ll make that in the form of a motion.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote please.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

JAIL                                                                        REQUESTED     APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

VOTER REGISTRATION

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, Voter Registration, line item 1220-2700 Other Supplies in the amount of $2,500; line item 1220-3410 Printing zero; line item 1220-4220 Office Machines $300, for a total appropriation of $2,800. I’ll make that in the form of a motion.

Councilmember Bassemier: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?

Councilmember Sutton: The Printing on that?

Councilmember Winnecke: Previously, the members of that office thought they wouldn’t need that at that time. If they need it later, they can come back to us.

Councilmember Sutton: Thank you.

President Raben: Any other discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

VOTER REGISTRATION                                        REQUESTED     APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

COMMISSIONERS

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, line item 1300-4231 Transportation Service in the amount of $100,000. I move that we defer that until we have – unless the Commissioners have provided the information that Councilman Bassemier requested at the last meeting on that.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?

Councilmember Sutton: What information are you – just kind of for the record, Councilman Bassemier, could you kind of refresh our memories on the information that you’re specifically looking for that you haven’t received?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yeah, this is what it was contracted cost to us for just the wheelchair transportation only. In the past they did not provide service for the wheelchair transportation and they just provide it for the walk-ons and I was just curious what this contract would be with just the handicap transportation only. I asked the –

Councilmember Sutton: I mean, are you assuming that we could end up with a smaller figure or somehow the contract would be reconfigured some kind of way? What’s maybe your thoughts there?

Councilmember Bassemier: Well, I’d just like to see the majority of the funds go toward wheelchair bound people instead of the people with walk-ons because its always really been a burden to these people in the wheelchairs to get the specialized vehicles to them out there in the county. It’s easier for the people who can walk getting transportation and I’ve had several calls, family members with their children in wheelchair transportation that this would not provide, so this go around I would like to see more go toward the wheelchair transportation than just the walk-ons. And until I get some numbers, I don’t have all the facts yet.

Councilmember Sutton: So are you going to be meeting with the Commissioners or are you just going to wait for them to bring it to us?

Councilmember Bassemier: Well, I think Catherine was supposed to – she’s probably working on it now and she’s probably almost got it finished.

Catherine Fanello: County Commissioner. I’ll most definitely get that info for you. I’ve been on vacation, so with the holidays and everything, so I’ll work on that.

Councilmember Bassemier: Okay, I appreciate it. Thank you.

President Raben: Okay, any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

COMMISSIONERS                                                 REQUESTED     APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

COMMUNITY CORRECTIONS

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, in the Community Corrections, line item 1361-1150-1361 Clerk in the amount of $2,481; line item 1361-1160-1361 Case Manager in the amount of $1,554, for a total appropriation of $4,035. I move approval.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

COMMUNITY CORRECTIONS                               REQUESTED     APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Raben: I might – looking through the audience, and I don’t see anybody that this would probably apply to, but I guess this room originally was booked for the Board of Safety and that meeting has been moved to 307 if that would apply to anybody. That meeting is now being held in room 307.

REASSESSMENT/COUNTY ASSESSOR

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, County Assessor Regular Overtime in the amount of $1,000; FICA $842; PERF $53; line item 2492-1090-1960 Special Stipend zero, and I’ll have a comment on that in a moment; 2492-1090-1990 Extra Help $10,000; 2492-1090-2600 Office Supplies $3,000; 2492-1090-3130 Travel/Mileage $4,000; 2492-1090-3530 Contractual Services in the amount of $183,000; and line item 2492-1090-3700 Dues & Subscriptions in the amount of $6,600, for a total appropriation of $208,495, and I’ll make that in the form of a motion.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

Councilmember Raben: We have a motion and a second. Discussion?

Councilmember Winnecke: In reference to the Special Stipend, we awarded the Township Assessors their stipends at the completion of their work and I think as the Assessor nears the completion of the portion of her work we would consider that at that time.

Councilmember Tornatta: I still have a couple of questions, one would be on the Travel/Mileage and where did you get your numbers for the Contractual Services?

Councilmember Winnecke: Contractual Services, we backed out the $32,000 request that was part of the Pro-Val contract. We think there is an overpayment issue that still has not been resolved. So if we end up needing to pay that further down the road, we can come back and make that appropriation at a later time. But right now, I believe Mr. Winternheimer and Mr. Ahlers are still trying to work through whether we, in fact, really owe the $32,000 for this year. And there was one other item that we cut out of there and I can’t remember –

President Raben: $152,500 is our portion of the GIS city/county split and $30,500, I believe, is a contract with Kathy McCarter.

Councilmember Tornatta: And that contract last year was what, $26,000?

Councilmember Raben: That sounds about right.

Councilmember Tornatta: I was supposed to have that information and no one –

President Raben: I think that’s pretty accurate. I think that’s the number that was quoted to me by the Assessor.

Councilmember Tornatta: And then did we discuss anything on the mileage? I don’t know, it seems – is that – I might ask Commissioner Fanello, what is the situation on mileage? Does it have to be approved through the Commissioners or, I mean, travel and what have you?

Catherine Fanello: Catherine Fanello, County Commissioner. Travel does go through the County Commissioners unless the Council has awarded a specific office a travel budget. Our policy states that they are supposed to send it up and just make sure it complies with our county travel policy.

President Raben: Right, now the travel that you’re referring to is in regards to attending state called meetings and what have you. This really, it should just probably read mileage. I think this is paying –

Catherine Fanello: Oh, is this just local travel?

President Raben: The field people that drive their personal vehicles out to the properties to measure and assess property.

Councilmember Tornatta: That’s what I wanted to know. I didn’t ever find out if that was – what exactly that was. I mean, to go to state functions and stuff like that, that should run through the Commissioner’s Office, so we shouldn’t be responsible to put money into that.

President Raben: Yeah, and that may be something to try to remember at budgets, to address this where it would state mileage instead of travel and mileage. Any other questions?

Councilmember Tornatta: I’d like to take out the Contractual Services and do it separate please.

Councilmember Winnecke: I would amend the motion to – I have to do some quick math here, Troy. I would amend the motion to take out line item 2492-1090-3530 Contractual Services in the amount of $183,000 and everything else as previously moved.

President Raben: So that would make it $35,495, I believe. Is that correct? Has anybody else checked that?

Sandie Deig: (Inaudible)

President Raben: Yeah, $25,495. Does the seconder accept the amendment?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

President Raben: Okay. Any other questions? Hearing none, roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

COUNTY ASSESSOR                                            REQUESTED     APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, then I will move, Mr. President, that line item 2492-1090-3530 Contractual Services be set in at $183,000.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: I’m going to vote no for the fact that I had asked for some documents on the extra $30,000 that had not been provided and I did not get that, so I will vote no.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

COUNTY ASSESSOR                                            REQUESTED     APPROVED

(Motion carried 6-1/Councilmember Tornatta opposed)

REASSESSMENT/PROPERTY TAX ASSESSMENT BOARD OF APPEALS

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, Mr. President, Property Tax Assessment Board of Appeals, line item 2492-1091-1180 Per Diem, set in at $14,400; 2492-1091-1900 FICA at $1,561; line item 2492-1091-1990 Extra Help $6,000; 2492-1091-2600 Office Supplies $2,500; 2492-1091-3130 Travel/Mileage $1,000; 2492-1091-3310 Training $1,000; 2492-1091-3370 Computer/Data Management $2,500; 2492-1091-3371 Computer Hardware $5,000; 2492-1091-3530 Contractual Services $12,000; and 2492-1091-4210 Office Furniture zero, for a total appropriation of $45,961. I’ll make that in the form of a motion.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

PROPERTY TAX ASSESSMENT

BOARD OF APPEALS                                           REQUESTED     APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

REASSESSMENT/CENTER TWP. ASSESSOR

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, Mr. President, Center Township, line item 2492-1110-1900 FICA in the amount of $765; 2492-1110-1990 Extra Help $10,000; 2492-1110-2600 Office Supplies $3,200; 2492-1110-2610 Copy Machine Supplies $1,000; 2492-1110-3130 Travel/Mileage $2,000; 2492-1110-3310 Training $7,200; 2492-1110-3390 Assessors Plat Sheets $1,500; 2492-1110-3410 Printing $1,000 and 2492-1110-3520 Equipment Repair $1,000, for a total appropriation of $27,665.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Raben: Okay, we have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

CENTER TWP. ASSESSOR                                   REQUESTED     APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

REASSESSMENT/KNIGHT TWP. ASSESSOR

Councilmember Winnecke: Knight Township Assessor, 2492-1130-1990 Extra Help $20,000; 2492-1130-1300 Regular Overtime zero; 2492-1130-1900 FICA $1,530; 2492-1130-1910 PERF zero, for a total appropriation of $21,530. I’ll make that in the form of a motion.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Raben: Okay, we have a motion and a second. Any discussion? No discussion. Roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

KNIGHT TWP. ASSESSOR                                    REQUESTED     APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

REASSESSMENT/PERRY TOWNSHIP ASSESSOR

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, Mr. President, Perry Township Assessor, line item 2492-1140-1990 Extra Help in the amount of $12,000; line item 2492-1140-1900 FICA in the amount of $918, for a total appropriation of $12,918. That’s $12,918, and I’ll make that in the form of a motion.

Councilmember Sutton: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

PERRY TWP. ASSESSOR                                     REQUESTED     APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

JAIL PROJECT

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, Mr. President, Jail Project appropriation request, I will move that line item 3660-4321 Road Construction be deferred and after it gets on the floor I’ll explain my reasoning.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second, now discussion.

Councilmember Winnecke: I’ve spent a fair amount of time on the phone last week with INDOT, with Bernardin Lochmueller, with Mr. Stoll, and I’m really interested to see where the city stands. I know the city has committed in theory to being a partner in this road project, but I think before this body releases funding for that road site, I think we should get a firm commitment from the city before we proceed so we know exactly how much we’re going to be on the rope for.

President Raben: I would certainly agree with that and I might ask Commissioner Fanello to do what you can to maybe negotiate this with City Council and get some firm commitment from them, and you’re welcome to come to the mic.

Catherine Fanello: Catherine Fanello, County Commissioner. I’d probably ask for the Sheriff’s assistance also. Monday night we’ll be getting the schematic designs or be receiving the schematic design for the jail project. Or design team will be down presenting that so we’re moving at a very fast track. There are several petitions that have to be filed with this road project and as we delay, it really sets us back and I know the Sheriff and Chief Deputy, Eric Williams, met with our design team Monday and spent a considerable amount of time, so we’re trying to move as fast as possible and I just want everyone to realize that it does put us at a great disadvantage because we are planning to put this, hopefully put this project out for bid late this year.

President Raben: Have you had any dialogue yet with the City Council?

Catherine Fanello: I have had dialogue with the Mayor. We spoke Monday afternoon not only about the jail but several other issues, one of which I’m going to talk to you about later and he is committed to it in theory as Councilman Winnecke said. What specific amounts, I think that remains to be seen because it just depends on, we don’t even have final design plans. The thing I was hoping that we could do today was at least appropriate some money so that we could hire Bernardin Lochmueller to make the final design plans because right now we can’t really move forward and I’m not going to have Bernardin Lochmueller do work without getting a contract with them for final design work. See, what they’ve done so far is basically the site analysis, which is what they were contracted to do and we will be paying for that out of our land project, but we have not contracted with them for final design plans because we didn’t have money in place to do that.

President Raben: Do you have a figure on what that might be?

Catherine Fanello: John could probably help us with that but he gave me an estimate of about – John, and I – ten percent of construction just as a rough estimate. We have not negotiated a price with them yet. Of course, I would obviously try to negotiate the best price possible, but was hoping that we could get some in there today just so we could do that. The Sheriff would like to add a comment.

Brad Ellsworth: Brad Ellsworth, Sheriff. I just wanted to add one quick comment. I think we’re further along in the purchase of the land than the city is, and if something would happen where the sewage treatment plant out there headed south for that project, we’re still going to need the road. So that would be my only input in the decision. That if theirs doesn’t go, we’re going to have to have a road anyway.

President Raben: I guess, and we don’t disagree with either one of you, but if we put the money forth and begin the project then it’s too late to expect anything from them. I mean, if I were the city, at that point why would I want to commit any percentage to the project knowing that its already moving ahead?

Councilmember Bassemier: Jim, whenever you get a chance...

President Raben: I think Curt was first and then we’ll go to Troy.

Councilmember Wortman: I would like to see this part of the $35,000,000 instead of a separate appropriation because that should be it, the $35,000,000 appropriated. All expenses.

Councilmember Bassemier: Took the words right out of my mouth.

Catherine Fanello: Boy, I wish I could do that. If jails didn’t cost so much, I wish I could do that.

Councilmember Tornatta: I don’t believe that’s any part of the building.

Catherine Fanello: Yeah, that’s – we’re working as – believe me, I don’t want to spend any more money than anybody else. And I’m trying to help out as much as possible.

Councilmember Wortman: To me, it’s part of the project.

Catherine Fanello: Uh huh, and I understand that, but we’re trying to get the most amount of bids for the price that we can get. And I know the Sheriff could probably add something to that. I mean, we’ve gone over numbers, over numbers, over numbers, and we’re trying to get the most – the best bang for our buck, we really are.

President Raben: Councilman Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Would we consider putting an amount in to get this side of it done albeit not $2,000,000? If it takes $50,000 or whatever it takes to get the ball rolling, we’re not committing the entire amount but we are saying that we want to get this project moving. We’re not trying to hold it back and the other side of it is the City Council then can decide what they want to do. But I agree, I really don’t want to put $2,000,000 toward the project and have it come back like it has before, where the City Council can say, hey, they put $2,000,000, you know, we’ll make up the rest and it not be any money at all. So I agree with holding and not paying the $2,000,000 at this time, but I think we need to put something in motion to get the contract going.

Catherine Fanello: Because what happens is, with the petitions that we have to file, we are supposed to actually deliver some kind of design plan and we don’t really have concrete design plans at this point because we haven’t contracted with them to do that. And that would kind of set us back in the petition process.

President Raben: Okay, Mr. Hoy.

Councilmember Hoy: Yeah, I would agree with Councilman Tornatta at this point. I’m not happy with the city not saying anything. They’ve been very vocal about Vectren and ballfields and high ticket items that are much higher ticket than this and this is –

Catherine Fanello: This is small in comparison to those projects.

Councilmember Hoy: Yes, it is and I think a little more assurance would be welcome.

Catherine Fanello: And I don’t mind doing that at all, but I really would most appreciate, would appreciate some type of money to get a contract with Bernardin for the final designs where we could move forward on the petition process.

Councilmember Winnecke: Mr. President, with that in mind I would entertain amending my motion to appropriate $170,000 which would be ten percent of the 1.7 million dollars that was requested for design work for Bernardin Lochmueller to wrap up that portion of the project.

Councilmember Hoy: Second.

Councilmember Wortman: I was just wondering whether the city would reimburse us for the design of the road.

President Raben: Right, whatever the city does –

Councilmember Winnecke: The total package.

Councilmember Bassemier: Jim, first of all, who seconded it?

President Raben: Curt.

Councilmember Bassemier: You haven’t said anything yet to rescind it? What I’m wanting to know, what happened to our $35,000,000 agreement we all agreed to here a while back, last year before – $36,000,000, now two more, of course not today it won’t but if we’re going to appropriate some money, I was going to say –

President Raben: Ed, hold on just one moment. There is a motion on the floor. Curt, --

Councilmember Bassemier: Well, its on discussion, though, isn’t it?

President Raben: Well, we haven’t gotten there yet. Curt, would you amend your second?

Councilmember Wortman: No.

Councilmember Sutton: The motion stays as it –

Councilmember Winnecke: Then you’ll have to vote on the original one and then we’ll come back around.

President Raben: Alright, so I guess –

Councilmember Tornatta: Roll call.

President Raben: Roll call and then we’ll go –

Councilmember Bassemier: Make the motion again that –

Councilmember Winnecke: The original motion was to defer, so if you are in favor of deferring you say yes. If you’re opposed, you say no.

Councilmember Bassemier: I just want to make sure it stays the same.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: No.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: No.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: No.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: No.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: No.

(Motion fails 2-5/Councilmembers Tornatta, Sutton, Hoy, Winnecke & Raben opposed)

Councilmember Winnecke: Mr. President, at this time I would –

Councilmember Hoy: You have to bring it back up on the floor with –

President Raben: We need a motion to – the Chair will now entertain a motion to bring line 3660-4321 back to the floor.

Councilmember Winnecke: So moved.

Councilmember Hoy: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Discussion? Can we just have a sign of hands here? All in favor, raise your right hand. Opposed? It’s five to two in support.

(Motion carried 5-2/Councilmembers Bassemier & Wortman opposed)

Councilmember Winnecke: Now, Mr. President, --

Jeff Ahlers: Just say five to two, it passes.

President Raben: Okay, motion passed five to two; Ed and Curt voting nay.

Councilmember Winnecke: I would move that line item 3660-4321 Road Construction be set in, in the amount of $170,000.

Councilmember Sutton: Second.

President Raben: We have a motion and a second. Now discussion.

Councilmember Sutton: Well, I think all the discussion we’ve had on this is – you know, that this is obviously a very important project for us on the county side, our biggest project we’ve got going on. And if there’s some things that we can do to keep the ball rolling, I think that’s something we’ve emphasized here over the last several months, is making sure there’s no unusual delays but at the same time we’ve also emphasized the need for communication among all the parties that are involved with this. The city, on their side, I would trust that they’re going to go ahead and come through on their commitment, but in order for us to move forward with this, I think there’s an additional thing we might need to get some information on is, there’s some discussion about how the road will be prepared, to what degree. I mean, is it going to be fully prepared or is it just going to basically have the – and I don’t know the exact terminology that’s used, kind of the base road that’s put down, the gravel and the sub part, I think that’s something that we were asking a lot of questions about in one of our previous meetings. I don’t know if we got any discussion or determination on that, but clearly, if we want to move forward with this, we don’t need to put in the full amount. I think this would be the appropriate amount for us to at least show some good faith on our part, that we are continuing to move this process forward.

President Raben: Okay, Ed, Councilman Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: I just hate to keep adding money to this. We all agreed back some time ago to give $35,000,000 to this project, took several of us across the river. They can build a facility almost just as big for less than $10,000,000. We can double the size of our present jail for under $10,000,000. Here, we’re going out here, we’re going to build a facility that’s going to give us a hundred plus beds more. I tell you, I wish it would just stop. We’re just giving away the candy store is the way I feel about it. So that’s all I had to say. I hope sometime in the near future we say no, and let them work from what we appropriated from in the beginning, the $35,000,000, and that’s all I have to say about it.

Councilmember Winnecke: Mr. Chairman, I would just add to Councilman Sutton’s point, the construction of the road, the design or the concept that they are working from – and John if I misspeak here feel free to correct me, but basically build up the base of the road with dirt and then add a gravel base of several inches and then the original plan was to put eight, ten inches of asphalt down for the construction period. And then after the construction was complete, the surface element of another inch and a half or two inches of asphalt would be applied. If we didn’t do any asphalt at all for the construction that -- just allowed gravel or rock to be the base for during the construction period, Bernardin says it’s probably about $400,000 less on the front end of it.

Councilmember Sutton: And then I guess I’d like to hear John’s comments on it, but clearly, my concern and I guess some of the others expressed it as well, you know, if we put too much asphalt on there, obviously, if you look at a pothole, the problems with the pothole or what’s happening below and now what’s above and if we put too much asphalt there, obviously, you know, we’re going to have some long term problems with that road. So I don’t know what the thought process is of how we’re going to proceed with this, but just concerned about how much asphalt we’re going to put on there that ultimately may tear up part of this road with the heavy equipment and things that are going to be going through during construction that we ultimately end up paving over the top of a bad road. It doesn’t appear bad but down below, it’s not as stable as it could be.

John Stoll: Like you say, the bottom is what – the road base is what dictates what happens on top. If they get the dirt compacted properly you wouldn’t see any kind of significant problems with potholes when the asphalt was placed. Likewise, if they didn’t get all the dirt compacted properly, that’s when the potholes would start popping up. Subdivision developers routinely leave off everything but the last inch of asphalt. We’ve seen ones that have totally fallen apart and other ones that you could go out and pave with no patching whatsoever. It all pretty much hinges on what the dirt conditions were beneath it. So theoretically, I guess if the contractor did his dirt work properly then we wouldn’t have to worry about the road falling apart. Probably some of this would hinge, too, on when that road would be put out for bid as well, how much work they can get done between the petition process and the design process, we would be looking at – I don’t know – probably late summer to get it under construction at the soonest and there again, depending on what kind of weather conditions we have would probably dictate how far they get before construction traffic starts running into the jail construction site. So a lot of unknowns on our end as well right now.

Councilmember Sutton: Ideally, how much time are we thinking this road would take to – from start to finish, not including design, but just the actual construction period?

John Stoll: I really haven’t talked to Bernardin Lochmueller about that. There again, depending on the time of the year, realistically, the road could be built in one construction season with no problems. The problem is, time-wise, we may be hitting towards the tail end of the construction season which will drag it out into next year. It’s just all a matter of when we get the design completed and when we get the petition approved by INDOT and when we can go to bid. And the sooner, the better so that way we could ensure that it would be completed at some fashion whether it’s leaving off the last inch of asphalt or just driving on rock initially, at least get that much done yet this year.

Councilmember Sutton: Okay. Thank you.

Councilmember Hoy: Mr. President?

President Raben: Yes?

Councilmember Hoy: Mr. Stoll, in order to have an entrance into Highway 41 at that point, from whom do we have to receive permits? INDOT alone, or since that’s a federal highway, do we need permitting from the feds?

John Stoll: It will be just INDOT. There will be a permit that will be issued by the Vincennes district office of INDOT and then there’s also a railroad petition that will have to be approved through Indianapolis INDOT.

Councilmember Hoy: Second question. I don’t think that INDOT is going to say no, but what if they do? What is our fallback position on this as you see it as an engineer? Where we would put the road if they say no?

John Stoll: The only thing I can think of right off the top of my head is in the Bernardin Lochmueller study, they looked at going up to St. George Road. The problem with that is, I don’t believe enough easements currently exist to get up to St. George, so some way or another whether it would have to be condemnation or what, I don’t know, but some way an easement would have to be acquired to get up to extend the road up to St. George.

Councilmember Hoy: And from whom would we have to receive those easements?

John Stoll: From what Bernardin said, SIGECO owns some property out there, CSX owns some property out there, and then depending on which of the two options you went with, part of it would be existing right-of-way for the city’s portion of Harlan Avenue or it would just be all new road east of there and I’m not sure who that property owner would be.

Councilmember Hoy: Okay, I have one more question. This relates to the future but I’m concerned because in our talking about this project we’ve said that there would be an emergency entrance from North Kentucky via a street called Vanderburgh, I believe, which is about 20 feet wide. Are there any plans in the work for upgrading that stretch of that street? I could see that being a problem or is that not in the –

John Stoll: I’ve not seen any plans, I’m not aware of any plans for that.

Councilmember Hoy: I just think that as time goes on, that’s something we, for the sake of those residents, we might want to look at and we might be asked to look at that because I just came in from Indianapolis today and not at rush hour time, that highway is very busy, the railroad is very busy, and I can see officers saying oops, I’ve got to go around the other way. And I think those residents on Vanderburgh are going to have a hardship placed on them. Thank you.

President Raben: You know, there’s only one point that I’ve never brought up that has been a concern and I guess everybody has addressed their concerns with this road, and that is CSX’s property that is not part of the 40 acres that we took, I mean, does everybody here realize how much per acre that ground has gone up when we build access to it? I mean, that’s the only bad side of it I see, that I wish there were a way that CSX shared part of this responsibility because their land values for that other acreage will go up significantly when this road is put in. So that may be too little concern too late at this point but, and there probably should have been something, they probably should be sharing in part of this cost.

Councilmember Sutton: Well, they know we’re going to build it, so why should –

Councilmember Winnecke: They’ll come.

President Raben: Okay, enough discussion. Roll call vote.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Bassemier?

Councilmember Bassemier: No.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: No.

Teri Lukeman: President Raben?

President Raben: Yes.

JAIL PROJECT                                                       REQUESTED     APPROVED