VANDERBURGH COUNTY COUNCIL

MINUTES

FEBRUARY 4, 2004

The Vanderburgh County Council met in session this 4^th day of February, 2004 in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex. The meeting was called to order at 3:36 p.m. by County Council President Ed Bassemier.

President Bassemier: I’d like to welcome everyone to the February 4^th, 2004 County Council meeting. Attendance roll call please.

(Councilmember Tornatta arrived just after attendance taken)

President Bassemier: Would everyone please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance?

(Pledge of Allegiance was given)

President Bassemier: I need a motion for the approval of the minutes of January 7^th, 2004.

Councilmember Sutton: So moved.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Bassemier: I got a motion and a second. Roll call vote please.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Bassemier?

President Bassemier: Yes.

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Bassemier: Now we’ll go into our appropriation ordinance and I’ll turn it over to our Finance Chairman, Mr. Raben.

JAIL

Councilmember Raben: Okay, thank you, Mr. President. First on the agenda is the Jail account 1051-1950-1051 Teamster Educational Fund in the amount of $7,648, I’ll move approval.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Bassemier: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote please.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Bassemier?

President Bassemier: Yes.

JAIL                                                                       REQUESTED       APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

CIRCUIT COURT

Councilmember Raben: Okay next, Mr. President, Circuit Court account 1360-4250 Miscellaneous Equipment, I’m going to set this in at zero with an explanation.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Bassemier: Okay, sir.

Councilmember Raben: And the judge and his assistant have been notified, but we are asking that they come back next month and submit this out of the COIT Windfall. Because of the state in regards to certifying our budget, they’re not going to be able to, until we get the final okay from the state, they’re not going to be able to spend the money if we appropriate it today out of the General Fund, so in order to get them their funds quicker, if they reapply for COIT they’ll be able to use it March – the first week of March. And the judge, I think they’re comfortable with –

Carl Heldt: That’s fine, Mr. Chairman, we’ll be happy to do that.

President Bassemier: Okay, well great. Thank you.

Councilmember Tornatta: Is this is a case where he could possibly go ahead and get the ball rolling?

Councilmember Raben: Well, that’s up to him. He’s probably got a vendor that is going to want payment –

Carl Heldt: No, we’ll go ahead and refile it this month and I assume it will be heard at the end of this month then.

Councilmember Raben: It will be heard at the end of this month and then approved--

Carl Heldt: Act on it the first of March?

Councilmember Raben: Right.

President Bassemier: That’s correct.

Councilmember Raben: And you’ll be able to spend it the very next day.

Carl Heldt: We’ll be ready to go.

Councilmember Tornatta: Okay, you’ll be able to talk to them and they’ll be able to get the thing – I guess what I’m saying is, if they know they’re getting paid at that point, could they start getting the ball rolling and get the process moving?

Carl Heldt: I assume they’re going to want some contracts signed and such as that, and then I’ll call them tomorrow and we’ll get going on it.

Councilmember Tornatta: If they’re going to want a contract signed they’re going to need to go to the Commissioners, is that right?

Carl Heldt: I don’t think so. Not for – I think I can do it myself.

Councilmember Sutton: Hold on just a minute here. I know we want to move forward with the process, but I think its been pretty clear that unless the money is actually there and appropriated, we wouldn’t want to sign off on any contract.

Carl Heldt: I’m not going to make any commitments.

Councilmember Sutton: Okay.

Carl Heldt: I’m not going to make any commitments until you all have made your decision.

Councilmember Sutton: I just don’t want to get in a –

Carl Heldt: No, don’t worry about that. I think we’ll have time after March to get this thing done.

Councilmember Hoy: We don’t want a judge in trouble with the law.

President Bassemier: Okay, I have a motion and I have a second. Any more discussion? Roll call vote please to set that in at zero.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Bassemier?

President Bassemier: Yes.

CIRCUIT COURT                                                   REQUESTED       APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

REASSESSMENT/COUNTY ASSESSOR

Councilmember Raben: Okay, Reassessment funds, first under County Assessor, Extra Help in the amount of $3,028, FICA in the amount of 232, for a total of $3,260. I’ll move approval.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

Councilmember Bassemier: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote please.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Bassemier?

President Bassemier: Yes.

COUNTY ASSESSOR                                           REQUESTED       APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

CONVENTION & VISITORS BUREAU

President Bassemier: Okay, Convention& Visitors Bureau.

Councilmember Raben: Convention & Visitors Bureau, account 3570-1110-3570, 3570-1140-3570, 3570-1150-3570, 3570-1170-3570 and account 3570-1180-3570 for a total request of $3,842, I will move approval.

Councilmember Sutton: Second.

President Bassemier: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?

Councilmember Hoy: My only problem with this is that, you know, these were wages we cut loose from the Salary Ordinance and going above that 3% bothers me a little, but I will vote yes on this, but I think, you know, I’m worried that what we felt might happen a few years ago is beginning to happen and we might want to take another look at it.

President Bassemier: Okay, in all fairness, you want to state your name?

Marilee Fowler: I’m Marilee Fowler with the Evansville Convention & Visitors Bureau. This happened a couple of years ago so we’re just trying to get it in line and all the salaries were within 3% this budget, but I had to get them corrected so that your records and our records reflect the same. The understanding is, we will go with whatever the county appropriates for wage increases when we do the ‘05 budget and if we can have the freedom then to allocate it depending upon their goals and objectives of each of the staff people, is what I’d like to ask. So it will be within the guidelines but it may be that we allocate it differently instead of giving everybody a straight 3% across the board.

Councilmember Hoy: But did these not last year go above the three? I mean, isn’t that what we’re dealing with really?

Marilee Fowler: Correct.

Councilmember Hoy: And that’s the part that –

Marilee Fowler: Right, that will not happen. I guarantee it.

Councilmember Hoy: Because that is bothering me.

President Bassemier: Okay, anybody else?

Councilmember Raben: Any other questions?

President Bassemier: Okay, I got a motion and a second. Roll call vote please.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Bassemier?

President Bassemier: Yes.

CONVENTION & VISITORS BUREAU                  REQUESTED       APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Bassemier: Okay, moving to Transfers.

CONVENTION & VISITORS BUREAU

Councilmember Raben: Okay, I’m going to take the repeal and then we’ll take the Transfers as one lump.

President Bassemier: Alright, sir.

Councilmember Raben: 3570-1130-3570 and 3570-1160-3570 repeal from Convention & Visitors Bureau in the amount of $2,535, I’ll move approval.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Bassemier: I have a motion and a second. I don’t think there will be any questions or any argument on that. Roll call vote please.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Bassemier?

President Bassemier: Yes.

CONVENTION & VISITORS BUREAU                  REQUESTED       APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

CLERK

AUDITOR

Councilmember Raben: Next for Transfers, we have County Clerk account 1010-1380-1010 and account 1010-1550-1010 to account 1010-1990 Extra Help in the amount of $3,288. County Auditor from account 1020-1130-1020 to account number 1020-1970 for a total transfer of $7,488. I will move approval.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Bassemier: I’ve got a motion and a second. Any questions? Roll call vote please.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Bassemier?

President Bassemier: Yes.

CLERK                                                                   REQUESTED       APPROVED

AUDITOR                                                               REQUESTED       APPROVED

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Bassemier: Now amendments to the Salary Ordinance, Jim.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, Mr. President, there are several of them. In fact, there’s three pages of amendments to the Salary Ordinance. I am going to just simply move that this document be entered in, made part of the minutes.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Bassemier: Got a motion and a second. Everybody approves, raise your right hand and say aye.

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Bassemier: Okay, now we know. No doubt about it.

President Bassemier: Okay, going into old business, last month we voted on a resolution. We need to make an amendment to it because we didn’t set in a time, so we need a motion to approve an amendment to the preliminary resolution for Azteca Milling L.P. located at 15700 Highway 41 North, set length of deduction for abatement to be set in for ten years. Do I have a motion please?

Councilmember Winnecke: So moved.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Bassemier: Okay, roll call vote on that please.

Councilmember Hoy: You’re not going to have discussion on that?

President Bassemier: Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry, Mr. Hoy.

Councilmember Hoy: A couple of remarks I’d like to make since I’m known as Doctor No on tax abatement. I went to the Internet, we’re looking at a corporation here that is a 1.8 almost two billion dollar a year corporation, their gross profit last year was almost 689 million dollars. They’re going to spend about 15 million, they’re wanting 50,000 a year from us in ten years, roughly that’s what it’s going to average out, half a million dollars. And I’m bothered by that because I think a company like this would build this whether they got the half million or not. I don’t think that stands in the way of building. That’s my first point. The second point has to do with the study I handed to you and it’s a document I’ve been working on for the Evansville Coalition for the Homeless, I’m on their subcommittee, on what’s called a living wage. Some of these jobs at Azteca will only pay $10 an hour and the first page gives you a study of what a single person would earn at 10 bucks an hour with the tax deductions for social security, federal tax, Indiana state tax and so on, and then with deductions for housing costs, utilities and car payment. And I figured that car payment, by the way, on an actual car payment of someone I know who makes $10 an hour, has a nice used car, and they can afford that barely. And a single person could conceivably live on that. When you turn to page two, a single parent with two children in no way, and that’s the study on page two, could live on that. And page three gives you a study of what a single parent with two kids would need to make in this county to get by, and that’s 14 bucks an hour. So when I study things like this and get on committees like this, and then when I deliver meals every Wednesday as my wife and I do to shut ins and I see the terrible, shabby housing in our core city, I don’t wonder why those houses aren’t fixed up. I do not wonder why some people, they’re all senior citizens, by the way, live in the kind of conditions they live in. And this is going to be my last year to bring this up, so I wanted to bring it to your attention again, because I think at some point, at some place in this country of ours, someone needs to start saying no to what I consider to be corporate welfare. We used to have a terrible slang term about women on welfare, we called them welfare queens, and it was really not a very nice thing to say and I hate to bring it up in this discussion. But the welfare queens today are people who live in fine houses, make lots of money and they’re heads of corporations who are rich enough not to ask for our handout. Thank you very much.

President Bassemier: Okay, thank you, Mr. Hoy. We have a motion and a second, roll call vote please.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: No.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Bassemier?

President Bassemier: Yes.

(Motion carried 6-1/Councilmember Hoy opposed)

President Bassemier: Okay, that passed 6-1.

President Bassemier: Okay, this is the second reading. Need a motion to approve the confirming resolution of the Vanderburgh County Council confirming the declaration of an economic revitalization area for property located at 15700 Highway 41 North known as Azteca Milling, L.P., to be set in for ten years.

Councilmember Winnecke: So moved.

President Bassemier: I have a motion and need a second.

Councilmember Raben: Second.

President Bassemier: Any discussion? Okay, roll call vote please.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: No.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Bassemier?

President Bassemier: Yes.

(Motion carried 6-1/Councilmember Hoy opposed)

President Bassemier: Okay, we need to go into County Council board appointments. I understand some have declined because of other commitments. I need to ask Sandie something a minute. Okay, my recommendations are: Burdette Park Advisory Board, I think, Royce, you’re going to get somebody for us on the –

Councilmember Sutton: Yes, I will bring that name in March.

President Bassemier: Okay, thank you, sir. I’d like to make a recommendation to serve on the Economic Development Commission, Todd Tucker; Human Relations Board, Barb Witte; and M/WBE Utilization Board Ellis Redd and Kathy Decker. I’d like to make that as a recommend –

Councilmember Winnecke: I’ll move that those appointments be made.

Councilmember Raben: And I’ll second that motion.

President Bassemier: Okay, can I have a roll call vote please?

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Bassemier?

President Bassemier: Yes.

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Bassemier: Okay, thank you.

President Bassemier: Under new business, set filing date for March 3^rd, 2004 Council meeting for February 12^th, 2004, I’d like to ask Sandie to send out a memo on that. Okay, Sandie?

President Bassemier: Under new business, approval of the revised employment change form. Do all of you have this form? This form was made up by Ms. Deig. And the way I understand it, since we’re no longer buying anybody out this is a good way for us to keep a paper trail going and so are there any questions on this form? Sandie, it looks like a very good form, its –

Councilmember Wortman: I’d make a motion for approval –

President Bassemier: I need a motion and a second on –

Councilmember Hoy: Second.

President Bassemier: Okay, and Mr. Hoy seconded. So any discussions on this form? Yeah, its very good. As you all know, we’re not buying anybody out anymore so we need a paper trail on this and as soon as Sandie gets a pink slip or something she can keep track of all this. Is this correct, Sandie? Anything else you need to add?

Sandie Deig: (Inaudible – microphone not turned on)

President Bassemier: Okay, it will keep us out of trouble. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Anymore discussion? Roll call vote please.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Tornatta?

Councilmember Tornatta: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Run this (Inaudible). Is this just for this form?

Councilmember Tornatta: You’re not getting a pink slip.

Councilmember Sutton: Well, when I see pink slips on my desk, you know, in an industry that this isn’t a very kind –

Councilmember Hoy: Yours comes from 170,000 people.

Councilmember Sutton: Just wanted to make sure this didn’t apply from the public side, so it looks fine to me. Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: I think I need to change sides again. Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Hoy?

Councilmember Hoy: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Wortman?

Councilmember Wortman: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Bassemier?

President Bassemier: Yes.

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Bassemier: I knew I should never have put two bankers side by side.

Councilmember Raben: Mr. President, just real quick before you adjourn. There’s a couple of young gentlemen here in the audience from North High School that are here to – or Central, I’m sorry, see us in action today. So I wanted to recognize them in the audience and invite them to the podium if they had anything they wanted to say to this County Council. Got any complaints you need to bring to our attention?

President Bassemier: You’re making history today. Do you want to come and give your name? You don’t have to say anything if you don’t want to. You want to come up and give us your name and what – you said Central High School.

Councilmember Tornatta: Get it in the minutes.

Councilmember Raben: Are you also from Central?

President Bassemier: Why don’t you all come up here. We’ve got time.

Councilmember Raben: And I apologize. I saw them when I walked in and spoke with them, I didn’t see the two ladies.

Councilmember Tornatta: Before they get up there, thank the Building Authority for getting our name plates taken care of. Put that on the record because it looks a lot nicer and no more banging.

President Bassemier: Sir, your name is? And what high school and what grade are you in? And what you’re studying? Anything you want to tell us?

Sean Gates: Sean Gates, senior at Central High School.

President Bassemier: Are you planning on going to college?

Sean Gates: Yeah, I’m going to Texas.

Councilmember Sutton: Don’t wear that green in here again. You’ll get called a North High Huskie again.

Thomas Basham: My name is Thomas Basham. I go to Central High School. I plan on going to IU for college and study athletic training.

President Bassemier: Do you play any sports or anything?

Thomas Basham: I wrestle and play football and run track.

President Bassemier: Good, I’m glad you’re on three. That’s great, wonderful.

Councilmember Hoy: You go to a great school, by the way.

Sarah Price: I’m Sarah Price, I go to North High School and I’m planning on going to USI for nursing.

President Bassemier: Okay, great, thanks.

Katye Adler: I’m Katye Adler and I go to North High School, and I plan on going to USI for nursing.

President Bassemier: And what year are you in, ma’am?

Katye Adler: I’m a senior.

President Bassemier: You’re a senior. Thank you all for coming. I appreciate it.

Councilmember Sutton: Do you guys need our signature on something?

(Inaudible – comments not made from the microphone)

Councilmember Wortman: I might ask them, would you be interested in running for office later on?

Councilmember Hoy: One of us is retiring, one of us older guys, this year, and one of these days my son over here, --

Councilmember Tornatta: I think they’re both retiring, aren’t they?

Councilmember Hoy: Mr. President?

President Bassemier: Yes sir?

Councilmember Hoy: I was asked to speak at a business and women’s club the other night about the voting machines, and Mr. Pete Swaim, you know, was demonstrating that machine, and it is very important that that be done because there is some reluctance on the part of some folks to use that touch voting, so I bring that to your attention and we need to make sure that people get comfortable with that. The second thing I bring to your attention, you might want to write this down, is a website called Black Box Voting, all together as you know on websites, .com. There have been some problems as I have pointed out, you know, with some of these machines, and there is some legislation pending in the congress that will require that there be a paper trail. That’s why I inquired of the gentleman from ES & S last time to see if those machines would accommodate a printer, and they will. But we, as a Council, need to be aware of this and watch that as it goes through, because while they will accommodate the printers, we will be looking for the money to buy the printers so that there is a paper trail. Because I think that may well become legislation. You know, we’re dealing with the public’s trust in the voting system and that’s very crucial, you know, in a democracy. So you might want to look that up and read some of the stuff that’s on there. I will spare you that today. Thank you.

President Bassemier: I tell you, I see somebody else out there, Al Lindsey, he’s a friend of mine, Evansville Fire Department, and we’ve worked several years together and he’s interested in getting into government again. So anyway, that’s all I better say.

Councilmember Hoy: Do you know any stories about Bassemier?

Councilmember Winnecke: I do have just one more - we seem to be having a moment of frivolity, which is rare on this floor. I would remind everyone that on Valentine’s night, the Really Big Show at The Centre, Councilman Tornatta and I will be participating and we encourage everyone to come out. It supports a great cause, Evansville Arc, and a good time will be had by all.

Councilmember Sutton: And as we understand, you guys are going to give us a preview today.

Councilmember Raben: Hey Royce, aren’t you interested in a show of hands of everybody that was invited to participate in that? Nobody called me, Lloyd. Hey, I may be one terrific singer and you don’t even know it.

Councilmember Winnecke: I was not the casting director.

Councilmember Hoy: I was in it last year and involved the mayor, the then mayor, and the president of the Council with my little magic trick, but they’ve got Illusionist Baggett this year to take my place.

President Bassemier: Anybody else? You’re right, Lloyd. You took a good picture in the paper, too. You did a good job. I need a motion to adjourn.

Councilmember Raben: So moved.

Councilmember Wortman: Second.

President Bassemier: Okay.

(Meeting adjourned at 4:03 p.m.)

VANDERBURGH COUNTY COUNCIL

President Ed Bassemier                      Vice President Lloyd Winnecke

Councilmember James Raben             Councilmember Phil Hoy

Councilmember Curt Wortman            Councilmember Royce Sutton

Councilmember Troy Tornatta

Recorded and transcribed by Teri Lukeman.