VANDERBURGH COUNTY COUNCIL

BUDGET HEARINGS

AUGUST 14, 2007

The Vanderburgh County Council met in session this 14^th day of August, 2007 in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex. The meeting was called to order at 9:00 a.m. by County Council President Marsha Abell.

President Abell: I would like to call to order the budget hearings for 2008, being held on August 14, 2007. Councilman Leader, would you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance?

(Pledge of Allegiance was given)

President Abell: We have a couple of housekeeping duties that we would like to take care of before we get started this morning. I would like to ask that all officeholders who intend to present this morning be prepared to answer questions about any new hires, any new budget item, and any budget item that is substantially more than it was last year.

 President Abell: We also this morning would like to address, we had a request from Mr. David Coker, who is in the audience this morning, regarding our support of a review panel for property taxes at the state-wide level. The Governor has begun something to that effect. We have prepared a resolution. I’m going to ask Mr. Winnecke to read it into the record, and with the approval of the Council we would all sign off on this resolution.

Councilmember Winnecke: Thank you, Madam President. The resolution states:

“Whereas, the citizens of Vanderburgh County have expressed concern about the current state of property tax assessments in Vanderburgh County in the State of Indiana; and, Whereas, over 9,100 appeals have been filed by Vanderburgh County residents to appeal their assessments under the new formula and tax structure; and,

Whereas, the Vanderburgh County Council believes it is in the best interest of the citizens of Vanderburgh County for it to request that the state expand the role of the Shepard-Kernan Commission to also include making recommendations on developing a fair and equitable tax structure and/or to request that the Governor appoint a separate commission to focus on the tax structure.

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the County Council of Vanderburgh County, Indiana, that the Council endorses the concept of either expanding the role of the Shepard-Kernan Commission to also include making recommendations on how to develop a fair and equitable tax structure across all categories of property owners and/or that the Governor appoint a separate state commission to focus on the tax structure.”

I would make that in the form of a motion.

President Abell: Do I hear a second?

Councilmember Goebel: Second.

President Abell: Roll call vote, please.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Leader?

Councilmember Leader: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Shetler?

Councilmember Shetler: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Goebel?

Councilmember Goebel: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: Councilmember Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Yes.

Teri Lukeman: President Abell?

President Abell: Yes.

(Motion unanimously approved 7-0)

President Abell: The resolution passes. For the record, the resolution is not an ordinance of the county, and was not taken up on a normal day of business. There is an original up here that we have for everyone to sign. Be sure you sign it before you leave.

President Abell: I would also like to call to your attention a letter that I sent out to all the county officeholders. It actually, probably, just got to them late yesterday or early this morning, because I was late getting it down here, but it virtually asks all of them to help us participate in the cutting of this budget, which will be approximately ten million dollars, and I would ask that those county officeholders and department heads that are in the office, in the audience this morning, if you have not seen the memo, please be sure you read it and understand that we have a very difficult job ahead of us. We’re not trying to cut your department down to where you can’t function, but we also have to make sure that we keep this budget in line. I think all of us have heard the cries of the taxpayers this year pretty loud and clear. I would like to mention that on Good Morning America this morning there was a man from Indianapolis who paid his property tax bill of some $12,000 in one dollar bills, and it shut down the Treasurer’s office while they actually counted it yesterday. So, that gives you an idea of how angry people are about their property taxes, so, we have to keep this budget in line. With that said, the first person on our agenda this morning is Weights and Measures. Loretta?

WEIGHTS AND MEASURES

President Abell: Good morning.

Loretta Townsend: Good morning.

President Abell: Does anyone have any questions of Loretta about her budget, which is always well prepared. Thank you.

Loretta Townsend: Thank you. This is scary. Somebody ask me something.

President Abell: Everybody’s just smiling at you.

Loretta Townsend: Uh-huh.

President Abell: Beware.

Loretta Townsend: Right on.

President Abell: Mr. Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Thank you. Loretta, could you chat about the uniform line item?

Loretta Townsend: Okay. The uniform line item, well, that will vary from time to time, because we’re in, well, like yesterday we were in diesel most of the time, we were in dyno fuel, which is what they mix with whatever to make dynamite for the mines. We’re in that, and all those will take a toll on our uniforms. You know, it’s not like we’re out riding in a car, or we’re carrying a clip board and this type of thing. We’re in diesel, we’re in gas, and when we get into the scales sometimes we’re getting into farm chemicals and that type of thing. There’s just so much that Spray ‘n Wash will take out, you know. So, I mean, that’s why. It could vary. I mean, their hats get so bad, I mean, really bad.

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay.

Loretta Townsend: The total increases is five line items. That’s the total of that is less than $2,000 for the five line items. Like one’s a hundred dollars more for rent next year. Just a little bit more, I think there’s some more added in training, because they’ve had training schools and travel and stuff that we really didn’t go to because there was no money for it that we should have probably have gone to. Ours aren’t really expensive training schools. I mean, they’re held in the state office, or they’re held somewhere like that, but we didn’t have the money to do it. I’m not saying that we even have to go this next year, but to cover it–

Councilmember Winnecke: The other question I had was regarding the communication line. That has gone up significantly, not just over the last two or three years from a couple hundred dollars a year to now you’re requesting $1,200.

Loretta Townsend: Well, we don’t, I really don’t, Lloyd, it’s like a stab in the dark. That computer, that’s hooking up to the Civic Center. I don’t have any idea what this is going to cost us. I’m just like asking for enough to hope it covers. We don’t know what the telephone is going to be, when they get through with us. I mean, we just, like I said, it’s just sort of a stab in the dark as to what we really will need. Maybe we won’t need all that. We may need more, but we don’t know.

Councilmember Winnecke: Is it for any other, it’s strictly just for computers?

Loretta Townsend: Let’s see. Out of communications, we have a telephone line item, so, no, it shouldn’t be that. It will mostly be, yes, that and, I think, I’m pretty sure, that without having the book in front of me, that’s our cell phones, the three cell phones that we have. One for each vehicle.

Councilmember Raben: I might, Loretta, that might be part of your high speed now. I think–

Loretta Townsend: It could be. They told us nothing.

Councilmember Raben: Up until a few months ago she was basically on like dial up. So, I think that’s the difference.

Loretta Townsend: The price end of it, they told us nothing. They just brought our tower back to us yesterday from over here. They’ve had that. You know, we’re trying to clean it up. The computer is almost nine years old. The only reason I think they probably let us have that computer was because it wasn’t turned over in 2000, because the other one we bought in 1990. So, that may be something that I have to come back and ask for later. I don’t know. We’re trying to make it work, but–

President Abell: I don’t see a computer on here.

Loretta Townsend: No.

President Abell: Okay.

Loretta Townsend: No, it’s not on there right now. We’re hoping that will work. You know, I almost asked, or did turn in for a transfer of funds to take care of our copy machine. Well, the computer guys come over there, and they’re messing with our computer, and we start laughing. We say, hey, the fax machine here don’t work. I said, the copy machine’s sitting in there, it’s so old, we can’t even get parts for it. The only thing we could do was haul it down to Hopkinsville, Kentucky, and I said, I don’t think that will work, you know. So, they got some kind of part, and they’ve got it up and running for us.

President Abell: Okay.

Loretta Townsend: So, I mean, we’ve just got machines over there that we’ve had for a long time. As long as they work, we don’t have to have the latest of anything. You know, like we don’t have to have 17 inch monitors.

Councilmember Sutton: Some of us say amen.

Loretta Townsend: 17 or 19 inch, we really don’t know what to give them–

Councilmember Winnecke: I would just like the record to reflect that I was not the first to talk about the size of monitors.

Loretta Townsend: If it’s one we can see, I don’t care if it’s ten inch, I mean, it works.

Councilmember Sutton: Say, Loretta, on your high speed update that you’re going through, have they given you a time frame regarding when they intend to complete that?

Loretta Townsend: All of it’s going to be done, well, no, now they say it’s AT&T again. Of course, AT&T did discover that the hole in the ground was not for our department. First they say, you know, it was our department, that there was a manhole that someone had covered up with asphalt. Well, Curt John came over there, and, I said, come here, Curt, let me show you something. Our back wall of our big room, right on the other side of that wooden wall, is all the equipment for the internet and for the telephones. There’s no manhole. The manhole actually was out there at WIC on Fulton Avenue, and AT&T sort of got that screwed around in their mind. So, I don’t know when we’re going to get it.

Councilmember Sutton: And, computer services is leading this project for you?

Loretta Townsend: Yeah.

Councilmember Sutton: Alright. Alright.

President Abell: Who have you been dealing with?

Councilmember Sutton: If you can get some idea on...yeah, who you are working with.

President Abell: Who are you working with?

Loretta Townsend: Okay, John Staples has been very, very kind to us. There’s one, let’s see, Chance, Jay, Mark, Matt, what’s his name?

President Abell: Arvay?

Loretta Townsend: Arvay. Now, he’s never been over, but I think everybody else they have on the payroll’s been over there.

President Abell: Maybe, Mr. Sutton, we can address that when they are in front of us?

Councilmember Sutton: Right. Yeah, we can, we might be able to get that squared away. We can find out what your time table is on completion, because this may not be something that...if it’s a one time charge, maybe you don’t need to necessarily reflect that–

Loretta Townsend: I have no idea if it’s even going to be a month.

Councilmember Sutton: Okay.

Loretta Townsend: You know, they just can’t seem to...they’re hooking us up to the Civic Center. I mean, it’s, we don’t, if we get more money than what we need, you’re going to get it back. I mean, you know, it’s like, I mean, we’re not going to blow it or put in something new or something that we don’t need.

Councilmember Sutton: Well, we don’t want you to have to just kind of guess at this thing.

Loretta Townsend: Yeah, well.

Councilmember Sutton: So, maybe we can get you some information to help you to get down to the number to where we really need to be.

Loretta Townsend: Yeah, how much it is a month. I mean, you know, we keep getting different prices. I mean, I know I’ve got to put something down. I mean, that’s just like building the Centre and forgot to think their budget out, you know, for the coming year. I mean, I’ve got to put something down.

President Abell: I mean, I’m with Mr. Sutton, I think we’ll talk to Mr. Arvay when he’s in front of us and get some ideas. I’ve written that down also, so.

Councilmember Sutton: Okay.

President Abell: Anything else, Mr. Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: That’s it.

President Abell: Mr. Shetler?

Councilmember Shetler: Yeah, could you enlighten me a little bit with regards to the rent line? Where you’re located? How much square footage you have? And, the reason and the purpose of being located outside the Civic Center or whatever?

Loretta Townsend: Okay, there’s a lot of reasons, Tom. Number one, our rent will be, let’s see, we pay, it goes up a hundred dollars next year. Well, that’s the price that we got from Joe before he resigned. Let me find rent. Okay, it will go from $5,600 to $5,700. We have 1,000 square feet. We can go and come as we need to, which is what we do all day long. We have three vehicles that have a lot of expensive equipment in them; weights, test measures. Test measures are like maybe $700-$800 a piece. We cannot have anything happen to this, because we cannot replace them locally. We’ve got to have it to do our job. We have a hundred gallon prover that we do diesel, we’re going to the airport again tomorrow, out at Tri-State on their trucks that they fuel up the airplanes. We have weights in there, a 50 pound weight would cost you about at a hundred dollars a piece. We’ve got to have these things close to us, they set in the lot that has a locked gate, I’ve gone by there at 5:30 and it’s been locked, but it is locked during the night, there are cameras there, there’s lights there, they have security there. We have ample room for what we need in our office. People can pull up out front, bring us their scales, bring us their stuff in there to us, and it works out. As I look down through the budget from the combined city and county, there’s no one in there that’s got rent like that, anywhere. I’m looking along that budget thing, it was $17,000, $18,000 a year, and more than that, $50,000, $60,000 a year. Ours will be $5,700.

Councilmember Shetler: Are there other costs though that are associated–

Loretta Townsend: None.

Councilmember Shetler: –like when we go outside with communications, and computers? And, then when a printer goes down, or copier goes down and you don’t have access to one there–

Loretta Townsend: We’ve got neighbors. We have neighbors is what we rely on. Yeah, we don’t come over here to get things printed up. The only times we come over here is like for this, and for, well, bringing our bills, checking our mailboxes and that type of thing. We have no need to. I mean, people can get to us. You know here you can’t even, well, I had them drop me off here because there’s nowhere to even park there outside.

Councilmember Leader: Loretta, you might want to comment on the kind of people that bring that equipment to your space, and how much it weighs and that kind of thing, which is important to your location.

Loretta Townsend: We have had people, well, we do have people who will bring scales to us. We’re talking about electronic scales. We’re talking about bigger scales. They have brought actually gasoline delivery trucks have pulled up there where we’ve had to reseal them, because they had to change the printer or something like that on it. There’s times that we, okay, and another thing, that I know you don’t want to hear, and we could not have it hardly anyplace else. Once a year, they come down and they test everybody’s test measures, the five gallon gas cans, I call them. The state don’t like it, but it’s a gas can, and, of course, there’s going to be fumes and things like that in it, and the ones that can’t be there that day, they will bring them to us ahead of time, and, of course, we bring them in there in our office. We tell them to wash them out, but, you’re dealing with people that sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t, so that we can take them out to the firehouse on Kentucky Avenue, the state metrologist comes down and he checks their equipment. The reason for that is, the State of Indiana does not have any control over repair people. With our ordinance, we do. We have to have. We don’t want an idiot running loose out there with a dented can. What we do, every so often we have the keys to locks we made, and only the ones who have their equipment checked and certified are going to get a key to unlock those locks. That helps the other people too, because they don’t want to have to pay $400 to get a pump fixed, and then the guy is not any good at doing it.

President Abell: Do you have another question, Mr. Shetler?

Councilmember Shetler: Yeah, just a couple.

President Abell: I would caution you that we need to move on.

Councilmember Shetler: Right.

President Abell: But, go ahead.

Councilmember Shetler: Just to follow up on that–

Loretta Townsend: Uh-huh.

Councilmember Shetler: –it sounds to me the things you’re describing though really don’t seem to be conducive to an office environment. Perhaps a fuel location–

Loretta Townsend: Not the County Garage.

Councilmember Shetler: –that’s owned by the county probably sounds to me to be a lot more practical and something that wouldn’t cost the county additional dollars. So, thank you.

Loretta Townsend: No more so than what it would for the rest of them at the high buck office, the high dollar office. Locate it to where the people can get to us.

Councilmember Raben: I have a question.

President Abell: Yes, Mr. Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Loretta, how many square feet did you say you have?

Loretta Townsend: A thousand.

Councilmember Raben: A thousand? So, that’s $5.70 a foot.

Loretta Townsend: Yeah.

Councilmember Raben: I think we’re being charged here, within the Civic Center, about–

Loretta Townsend: Oh, big bucks.

Councilmember Raben: –for everyone’s information, it’s $15 or $16 a foot. Hers does pay for utilities–

Loretta Townsend: Uh-huh, parking and everything else. It pays for everything. That’s the only thing we have.

Councilmember Raben: It’s a bargain.

Loretta Townsend: Yeah.

President Abell: Anything else? Thank you, Loretta.

COUNTY TREASURER

President Abell: County Treasurer, page 10. Good morning, Mrs. Tuley.

Z. Tuley: Good morning. I’m Z. Tuley, the Vanderburgh County Treasurer.

President Abell: Do you have something that you would like to tell us? Or, do you just want us to ask you questions? You passed out some things.

Z. Tuley: I would. I would like to discuss this for a minute.

President Abell: Okay, go ahead.

Z. Tuley: Loretta, I think this is yours.

Loretta Townsend: Okay, thank you.

Z. Tuley: I think it was about a year ago, March or February or so, we hired a collection company to assist us with the delinquent personal property, mobile home, oil and state assessed tax collections that once we’ve exhausted every means possible to try to collect this, we are required to certify those to the County Clerk. Once they are certified to the County Clerk, we turn this over to this collection agent, who then charges a fee directly to the delinquent offender. So, it’s not costing the Vanderburgh County taxpayers anything to have these guys contract. I have submitted a couple of documents to you so that you can see the amount of increase in ‘05. No, it was ‘06 from like March to March. From ‘05 to ‘06, from March to March we collected, on our own in the office about three hundred and some thousand dollars. With this collection company the year after that, in that same time frame, they collected right at a million. So, I think that the collection agent is doing a very, very fine job in getting monies that was so difficult for my staff to have to try and track down these people and try to find them and try to get them to pay. So, I did want to report that that’s working out very, very well. The other thing, this other chart, the green one shows the amount of volume, the number of bills that we’re having to process, because with this increase of being three times what it used to be, we have three times the paper work. We have three times the posting that needs to be done. We have three times of all this. In the past, one person could handle, you know, in this April of 2005, 50 bills, then 55 bills, then 31 bills. But, now in this same period, in ‘06, we have 118. So, the staff has been really stretched and swamped in order to just even keep up with this volume. I did want to point that out as well. We have been working extremely hard. It’s bringing in good for Vanderburgh, but at the same time, it is a real strain on us. With this increase I would like to request and encourage the idea of getting a new tax and billing system. With what we have now is an old COBOL program. It’s been maxed. We can’t currently put in the new state required parcel numbering system, because it is so antiquated and it has just been utilized to it’s fullest. There is no room to add those numbers in the system. I think that this shows that we have new monies coming in, that we didn’t used to be able to get. So, I would like to have some consideration going toward paying for a new tax and billing system. This process could also be shortened if it wasn’t having to do so much manual work. Right now we have manual books, as prescribed by the State Board of Accounts. They’re great big, huge, heavy books. There’s one on record in my office. There’s one on record in the County Clerk’s office, and all payments are manually logged into this book. If we could get it up on a tax and billing computer system, where when the cashier rings in the payment, it goes to the spot that it’s supposed to go, in electronic form. Then over to the County Clerk’s office. I have all kinds of ideas. I have served the last two years on the board for the DLGF, under O’Bannon-Kernan. I served for Beth Hinkle in reviewing a more uniform tax and billing system between the Auditor, the Treasurer and the Assessor, so that there wasn’t so much repeat work, but not eliminating too much checks and balances. I served also under our current Governor with Melissa Henson at the helm of the DLGF last year. We did wrap that up and we do have a final draft. I think it’s very exciting. I had actually kind of hoped that the standard would be set a little bit higher, but it’s a standard that 92 counties are going to have to meet.

President Abell: Have you discussed that desire for a new system with Mr. Arvay?

Z. Tuley: Yes. Before, but we had a sit down meeting about it yesterday. I’ve discussed it before with him.

President Abell: I guess, when you four come to a consensus, you’ll come to us with some funding requests? Okay. Does anyone have any questions of Mrs. Tuley? Mr. Sutton?

Councilmember Sutton: Z., regarding that new system, is this a system that is used or being piloted some place else? Or is this something that–

Z. Tuley: There are various vendors that will be certified by the state, but now with this new standard set, you are going to have to be certified by the state. You’re not going to be able to just be a package that a county can just run out and purchase. You’re going to have to find someone that meets that standard, so that the state will certify those and say this vendor is good, this vendor is good, and then you have to just find the niche for your own county.

Councilmember Sutton: Okay, and how many counties that you’re aware of have already–

Z. Tuley: Marion County just acquired one–

Councilmember Sutton: –purchased their system?

Z. Tuley: –White County acquired one. I’m thinking, and I could be wrong, I’m thinking Monroe County already met the standard. That’s all I can think of right now.

Councilmember Sutton: And, your cut off date of when this needs to be put in place?

Z. Tuley: During the last meeting, the last thing I understood was at that point in time, they were expecting that all counties be searching, seeking, looking with kind of a plan in place in ‘08. Going toward that uniform standard. And, of course, now we have a new DLGF director and she may want to step it up, and she may want to postpone it. I don’t know.

Councilmember Sutton: And, just a ballpark figure on the system cost again?

Z. Tuley: I have no idea.

President Abell: None at all?

Z. Tuley: I really don’t. I haven’t searched that far. I did tell Matt that I’m just certain that a good tax and billing system is in Hawaii, and we need to run out there and look at it.

Councilmember Sutton: It will take about three weeks to evaluate it.

Z. Tuley: Exactly. Exactly, it takes a few weeks to evaluate. I really don’t know. I haven’t got to that kind of....it’s also going to have to be something that I feel can be supported by the current computer staff. Because I have heard the nightmares around the counties that have companies that are only reachable by 1-800 we put you on hold, 1-800 you can sit. I can tell you we have, our tax and billing system, the current one, has only went down once in my 13 years here. We had five men on the spot, the taxpayers could see that they were in line, backed up to Bill’s door, it was at tax deadline time, but we had five men in my office, in five minutes they had us back up and going. I don’t think that our taxpayers deserve any less. I’m not happy with a 1-800, and I don’t think our taxpayers would be either if they’re here to pay and they have to get turned away because I can’t provide a receipt.

Councilmember Sutton: It would be nice if the state just purchased that system themselves and then each county could just either remotely, some kind of way or another tap into the system–

Z. Tuley: Kind of, but have you noticed–

Councilmember Sutton: –where each county wouldn’t have to–

Z. Tuley: Yeah.

Councilmember Sutton: –go in and purchase it. Where you’ve got a uniform vendor, and if there’s any bugs or problems with the systems, then you’ve got that system already–

Z. Tuley: If they brought that DLGF board back together to make that choice, I would love that. But, just to have someone up at the state make that choice, who has no involvement would be scary. Because they usually don’t catch all the details. Exactly.

President Abell: Mrs. Leader, did you have a question?

Councilmember Leader: (Inaudible.)

President Abell: Mr. Shetler?

Councilmember Shetler: Yeah, Z., you mentioned about the tax collecting firm, the delinquent tax collections that we’ve been catching up on and stuff?

Z. Tuley: Yeah, this is just the personal property, mobile homes, state assessed and oil.

Councilmember Shetler: Right.

Z. Tuley: This has nothing to do with real estate.

Councilmember Shetler: Okay, so the person that you have here that collects the delinquent, that’s real estate then? Is that different?

Z. Tuley: It’s different. It’s a totally separate category.

Councilmember Shetler: Okay, I mean, that person that does that, that’s different from what they’re doing here?

Z. Tuley: Well, we have a tax sale clerk to worry about delinquent real estate.

Councilmember Shetler: Right, and that’s all that person does? It’s your employee listed here?

Z. Tuley: Pretty much.

Councilmember Shetler: Okay, alright, thank you.

Z. Tuley: Uh-huh.

President Abell: Mr. Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Z., it might be helpful for us in the next couple of weeks, as we’re trying to pare things down, if you can get a ballpark of what we’re talking about for a new tax and billing system, just so we kind of, for our planning purposes. I mean, it doesn’t have to be to the penny, but be, I would like to know about what we’re talking about.

Z. Tuley: Okay. I’ll get with Matt and we’ll take a look at some things.

President Abell: Mr. Raben? I’m sorry, go ahead. Mr. Raben?

Councilmember Raben: I was just going to offer recommendations. Sometimes when it comes to programs and software it’s not your advantage to be the pioneer. You might want to wait a year or two and find out from other counties. After they–

Z. Tuley: I want to see what Marion has.

Councilmember Raben: –you know, some systems–

Z. Tuley: I would love to see that.

Councilmember Raben: –will undoubtably fail, and you’ll find that there’s one that really works. But, to react too quick may be not to our advantage, so.

Z. Tuley: I agree. I agree. I would love to see what Marion County has in place. I would like to see what it looks like, how it works. Have they encompassed the certification process so that they don’t have to do the antiquated book method? I would love to see what White County has. White County I’m familiar with the company, and I would like to see what all they have, because I really don’t know. But, I would like to see that. White County just got it in place.

President Abell: Any other questions?

Councilmember Sutton: I know we’re trying to move on as fast as we can, but I want to ask a question. I think I’m going to try to ask to every officeholder that’s asking for some type of increase. Z., often times the Council we get some feedback from the officeholders and we make adjustments to their budget. Looking at your request here, if you were going to go in and make some adjustments to your budget, where would you start?

Z. Tuley: Nowhere.

Councilmember Sutton: With ten million dollars to cut, that’s not a good answer.

Councilmember Raben: A good question though.

Z. Tuley: I started to say, you might could get by with taking a smidgen off of each one, each category. Maybe a smidgen. I really, really would be saddened to lose any kind of training. The printing, you know, the cost of the bills have went up with the volume of the bills that’s went up. We’re up to like 100,000 parcels, or right at it now. The cost of that just keeps going up. Unless our legislators decide that instead of inserting the COLTS form, the comparison form, if we can just have that on the internet. It’s been proposed. It was shot down. I believe it was last year we discussed some information being on the internet, and our legislators are not real receptive to any of that. We have public libraries that have public access. It wouldn’t be necessary to stuff all of these inserts in a tax bill, which increases the postage as well, if we could just do the internet. Unless we can make some kind of major push toward that effort, I don’t know how we can reduce–

Councilmember Sutton: I know you weren’t expecting that question, and you happen to be the first one. So, the others out there, they will be ready for it when they come up.

Z. Tuley: Yeah, I don’t know.

President Abell: Any other questions?

Councilmember Raben: One last one. Z., on your First Deputy Accounting ADM, there’s quite a large increase on the salary, is that step increases or?

Z. Tuley: This was a total rewrite of the job description. I required that of my entire staff. They were all sent to training, or with new hires I brought in an elevated skill level that was going to be required. Although I still feel that the salaries came up short, from what I believe that the employees deserve, we did get some increases passed. Much needed increases.

Councilmember Raben: Okay. That’s it.

President Abell: Thank you.

Z. Tuley: Uh-huh.

CO-OP EXTENSION SERVICE

President Abell: Co-Op Extension Service, page 76. Good morning.

Susan Plassmeier: Good morning. I’m Susan Plassmeier with Purdue Extension here in Vanderburgh County. Do you want me to go over my rationales? Or, do you just want me to take questions?

President Abell: If you have any major changes from last year, you might want to explain those.

Susan Plassmeier: Um, just, we asked for an additional $500 in office supplies. That just being the cost of office supplies increasing, with transportation costs increasing, that kind of gets passed on to the consumers. Our travel/mileage, when the county increased the mileage rate a few years ago, we did not increase any in our mileage budget, and, so, for the last few years we’ve asked for an additional $1,000 in that line item for the last three years. What’s happened at the end of the year, we’ve just kind of held off on our budget, mileage, and then got it submitted at the beginning of the year. So, we’re kind of taking advantage of the next year’s budget. So, it kind of leaves us short every year. But, I will get to Mr. Sutton’s question, that might be a category that could be cut, because we do have one of our, if we could at least get $500 in there, we do have one of our program assistants who’s pregnant. So, she will be due at the end of the year, and, so, she will not be going out doing programming, and she does a lot of school programming. So, she’ll be out for a couple of months. So, that will decrease the mileage a little bit of what we need. Our utilities, asking for an increase of $1,000. Just the same thing, energy costs are increasing, so, we anticipate that what we have in our budget, and that line has been pretty steady over the last few years, that we’ll probably need more money there. Our contractual services, that is the amount the county pays to Purdue University to maintain the employment for three Purdue educators, masters degree educators here in Vanderburgh County. I did get something from Purdue, for Vanderburgh County, Purdue pays 68.8 percent of salaries and benefits, and our county is paying 31.2 percent. For the average down in Southwestern Indiana, Purdue is paying 62 percent, and the county is paying 38 percent. So, Vanderburgh County is only paying 31.2 percent compared to other counties on that amount.

President Abell: Any questions?

Councilmember Leader: I have one, Marsha.

President Abell: Mrs. Leader?

Councilmember Leader: This payment to Purdue?

Susan Plassmeier: Yes.

Councilmember Leader: Is that dictated by Purdue? That $71,000?

Susan Plassmeier: Yes.

Councilmember Leader: Thank you.

President Abell: Mr. Shetler?

Councilmember Shetler: Yeah, okay, the $5,400, how many computers are you talking about there?

Susan Plassmeier: Eight. It’s computers and a printer also.

President Abell: This is not to replace them, obviously?

Susan Plassmeier: No, this is a lease.

President Abell: Oh.

Susan Plassmeier: We do a three year lease.

Councilmember Shetler: It’s a contractual service? That is what the payment is going to be per month divided out?

Susan Plassmeier: Right.

Councilmember Shetler: Okay. Rent, so, as not to, how many square feet are we talking about?

Susan Plassmeier: I knew you would ask that when you asked Loretta that. I’m not sure.

Councilmember Shetler: Can you get that for us, please?

Susan Plassmeier: Yes, I will. I’ll get that and get it back to Sandie.

Councilmember Shetler: Janitorial Service, while it seems to be fairly inexpensive, $1,000 a month.

Susan Plassmeier: No.

Councilmember Shetler: Or, a hundred dollars a month.

Susan Plassmeier: $1,200 for a year.

Councilmember Shetler: A hundred dollars month seems to be fairly inexpensive. Is that for an outside contractual service that you’re using?

Susan Plassmeier: Yes.

Councilmember Shetler: I think I had one other question on the Office Machines at the $1,500. How is that different, that line item from the computer?

Susan Plassmeier: Office Machines would be other types of machines that we might need. We have purchased in past, we’ve got a laminator that we use, because we go and we do a lot of school programs, and we’ve got materials that we use repeatedly on flannel boards, and so we laminate those materials so that they don’t deteriorate. For other small, that was probably our largest machine that we’ve purchased, but, I think we used a couple of years from the line item to do that. But, it’s just smaller machines like that. It could be a typewriter, which we really need to get a new typewriter, which are kind of hard to find. Everything is done by computer now, but there are some forms that we have to fill out that you need a typewriter. So, but the last typewriters that we bought new were when we were still here in the Civic Center, and that was back before 1996.

President Abell: You might check the basement.

Susan Plassmeier: We have gotten some from the basement to replace what we’ve had when some have gone bad. The ones we have they like, and they wish that we could replace them.

Councilmember Shetler: Is any of that for like maintenance agreements?

Susan Plassmeier: Equipment Repair would be the maintenance agreements.

Councilmember Shetler: Okay.

President Abell: Mr. Raben?

Councilmember Raben: Yes, I would like to go back to computers just a moment. You said you have how many, eight?

Susan Plassmeier: That are hooked, well, we have more than that, but, these are the ones that are hooked up to the internet serviced by Purdue.

Councilmember Raben: Okay. So, the $5,400 though is for leasing eight? Or is that for leasing more?

Susan Plassmeier: For leasing eight, and the printer, laser printer.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, you know, that would figure out to be, I mean, pretty close to $700 a year per computer. Now, you can replace a computer today with a printer and with a monitor for less than $700. I mean, it would be much cheaper to own than lease.

Susan Plassmeier: But, I think that also figures in some of their contractual maintenance. We don’t use any of the county computer system for maintenance and things. Ours is all done through Purdue. That’s all the software that’s included with that to run our 4-H programs, the master program, and they take care of maintenance on that, and if we have any problems, we just call up there to Purdue and they go in internally and fix things. So, we have very little down time. Did that answer your question, I’m sorry.

Councilmember Raben: Well, it does. I guess, it’s hard to place a value on the software. I mean, if they’re changing the software annually then, you know, that would definitely have a value. But, simply for the hardware side of it, that’s pretty excessive.

Susan Plassmeier: Right.

Councilmember Raben: If you could afford to replace computers every three years and save several thousand dollars–

Susan Plassmeier: We have the IT service and the high speed T-1 line in there, too.

Councilmember Raben: And everyone throughout the state uses a lease program through Purdue?

Susan Plassmeier: Yes, yes.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, so, is it possible just to get on their software program?

Susan Plassmeier: No. That was a thing, we have at the end of the last lease cycle, a couple of lease cycles ago they offered the option that we could buy any used or left over that we didn’t turn it in to lease and we could pay like $150. So, we did keep a computer, but they will not service that computer. So, I’m afraid that if we buy some externally, then Purdue would not be liable to service them if they have, you know, the problems or anything. If we got like a part that goes out, we just call Purdue, they mail it to us, they ship it to us, and, I mean, that’s just covered in all the cost of that.

Councilmember Raben: I’m not so much concerned about, again, the hardware, because computers, again, they’re cheap enough that if you have to replace them every three years, if you have a new system or a new computer, the likelihood of it failing in the first year or two is–

Susan Plassmeier: Right, and that’s why–

Councilmember Raben: –not very high.

Susan Plassmeier: –every three years is because they said usually you don’t have problems within the first three years. So, that’s why they built the lease on the three year agreement.

Councilmember Raben: And it’s $700 a computer. Again, if you could get us what it costs for them to maintain your software, I think at some point we need to look at buying and owning our own hardware.

Councilmember Sutton: And we could very well maintain the hardware through our computer services area ourselves, if we go that route. I mean, if we’re in a lease agreement with Purdue in perpetuity, it’s a pretty good deal for them. Not necessarily for us, though.

President Abell: We need to change the tape. Just a moment, Mr. Goebel. Just as soon as we get finished.

TAPE CHANGED

President Abell: We might discuss that with Mr. Arvay when he’s in front of us also. Mr. Goebel?

Councilmember Goebel: Could you just find out from Purdue if we could go the separate route and purchase our own and they could still pipeline the software to you?

Susan Plassmeier: The services?

Councilmember Goebel: Yes.

Susan Plassmeier: Yes, I will check into that.

Councilmember Goebel: Thank you.

President Abell: Any other questions? Thank you.

COUNTY CLERK

President Abell: County Clerk, page 1. Good morning.

Susan Kirk: Good morning. Susan Kirk, County Clerk.

President Abell: I think we can probably skip all the way over to page four, actually, where the – does anyone have any questions of Ms. Kirk?

Councilmember Leader: I do. Susan, let me ask you about this Office Supplies line. You’ve got a pretty dramatic increase there. Can you explain that to us, please?

Susan Kirk: Well, just because of the forms and things that we need are going up. They keep going up and we could maybe shave a couple of thousand off of that, but I think, otherwise, we would be back at Council asking for more money. We have certain required forms that we have to get, that we get from these different companies. Its not like, you know, sending it out for bids. There’s certain companies that print our forms and they just go up. So, unfortunately, we are kind of stuck with some of that.

President Abell: Mr. Shetler?

Councilmember Shetler: So you’re saying that on that printing, we don’t get bids compared to –

Susan Kirk: It depends on what it is, Tom. If it’s something that’s just, you know, your normal run of the mill, but you know, like our certified postage, things like that, we have to go through like Pitney-Bowes and they’re just increasing, costs are increasing.

Councilmember Shetler: But there are different, you’re talking about the –

Susan Kirk: There is and we do.

Councilmember Shetler: Postage machines and stuff like that, because there are several competitors out there on that.

Susan Kirk: Well, and when we do that, we will get bids among them but they’re very close in price, very close. And all of them are going up so its not like one is, one isn’t.

Councilmember Shetler: And we have found a fairly significant difference between one versus the other, ourselves.

Susan Kirk: Well, we’ve not found that much difference to actually move, because, and sometimes when you think about the move and the start-up costs of getting another one, you’re right back in the same place. I think Royce brought up a real good point the last time I was here about how you get with someone and you keep using them and then you find your costs are going up because it’s just, it would almost cost you as much or more to switch companies to get their hardware in there and different things like that, but they’re all pretty well, at least the ones that we deal with, very, very close in price. But it’s just going up, just like your gasoline and your groceries and everything else, it’s just going up. All of it is. Not just those particular forms that we need, but everything just goes up.

President Abell: Susie, do you have any idea how many files you made up this last year, all your files, by chance?

Susan Kirk: How many cases we took in?

President Abell: Uh-huh.

Susan Kirk: Well, I think –

President Abell: Counting Misdemeanor and everything.

Susan Kirk: Its like 40-50,000. We are –

President Abell: So if you figured a dollar a file, you’d be well over 50,000 just to do files.

Susan Kirk: Just the shucks, just different things like that. I mean, we’re just increasing. I know that the storage cost is a big deal and I do have something that I want you to think about and I’m going to say this really fast because I know you’re busy for time. Imaging Office Systems, and this is coming whether we like it or not or whether the judges like it or not, but it’s something that I want you to think about. Everything would be scanned. Right now, we scan the order books and the rest of the files sit out at Kinder, which take up a huge amount of space. We would buy scanners and our girls would scan them in instead of file the paper. There would be no paper. Start-up costs would be approximately $180,000 the first year. After that, I know that sounds like a lot but now you’re talking about $100,000 storage.

President Abell: 115.

Susan Kirk: So, 50 to 60,000 each year after including going back and trying to start scanning the things that we have a Kinder to where one day, we would not have any more storage costs. It’s coming, I mean, it’s here. We can either begin something like this so that future Clerks and Councilmen aren’t going to have a storage bill that is totally astronomical. We are running, we average 350 cubic feet per month more every month. That’s how many more feet we take. And that will probably get us by the next three years. After that, you can probably increase that up to 400 cubic feet. So I’m going to talk to the judges and see if they, because I know some Judges like paper. They like all that paper. But we’re going to try and see, it’s approved by the state and I’ll bring you some, as many facts and figures as I can, but I think its something that we seriously need to consider. I, as the Clerk, hope I get elected next year, but I could just say, hey, I’m just going to go and forget this, let Kinder, we’ll just keep paying this and let somebody else deal with it. But I’m certainly willing to begin something that maybe six years down the road, you’re going to see we’re saving a lot of money, saving a lot of paper, the cost will go down. But it would take at least six to seven years for us to start seeing any kind of evening out period here.

President Abell: I have one question about that. Then are you saying that you can then destroy any paper that you scan in? I realize if someone, I think I’ve seen the system, someone brings in a case, they file it across the counter, you hand it right back to them. You scan it in and just hand it back to them.

Susan Kirk: That’s right, you file mark their copy and that’s it.

President Abell: Any other documents, interrogatories or anything that’s filed, can you destroy those on any case?

Susan Kirk: We scan everything that comes through except, you know, like a marriage license, things that you, oh, you know, the genealogists like to go back and see, those would be towards the end. It’s coming, I mean, the state just keeps –

President Abell: I mean, you’re not going to scan it in and then still have to store the paper, is what I’m getting at.

Susan Kirk: No, it isn’t a matter of like, you know, we have computers to get rid of the paper, but now we have computers and paper, and disk, and microfilm. This would be scanned in and that’s it. And it would be the file, not just order books, so there would be no paper.

President Abell: And no books to buy.

Susan Kirk: And no books to buy. And then that would eliminate our storage.

President Abell: Mr. Goebel, did you have a question?

Councilmember Goebel: Susan, does any other county have this system in place?

Susan Kirk: Yes, there are several. Marion County is the biggest one and that’s who we’re going to check with just to see, and they do it in other states, too, Ohio and well, our surrounding states. And so far, it’s, I guess it’s working well. Like I said, this is kind of in the baby stages now. All I could do was just kind of get you kind of a ball park, how much start-up costs, how much yearly costs would be. So it’s just something that if you guys and ladies are willing to consider, I will pursue this with the Judges. If it’s something that you say, no, forget it, then I can do that, too.

Councilmember Goebel: I would think you’d maybe ask the other counties that have it in place how its worked out for them and maybe give a report back to us on that.

Susan Kirk: Okay, I think it’s working out very well.

Councilmember Goebel: Thank you.

Susan Kirk: But I will get something in writing also on that.

President Abell: Mr. Raben?

Councilmember Raben: You know, this isn’t the first time its been discussed and looking back, it was always my understanding that you could never do away with the hard copy.

Susan Kirk: The thing of it is, as I had said before, it’s become such a monster, the paperwork, --

Councilmember Raben: I understand, but I thought that the law required us to maintain a hard copy.

Susan Kirk: The law has changed. The state law has changed permitting us to scan these in. Now, and I wouldn’t want to just – I would like to begin doing something like that now and scan in what we have out there, which Marsha, you’re talking about that huge amount, but what’s also here is e-filing, too, which can help some. But still, you have to scan this stuff, you can’t just have it in one place. You know, you have to have it like three different places, so if you lose one copy of something, you go to the next building and pick up your other disk or your tape or your microfilm. So e-filing is coming, also. It’s here. There’s the federal, they do it. The federal courts, they do e-filing. But still, they’ve got to have it somewhere else. So they download from their computers on to disk and then from the disk, I think they microfilm or I’m not sure how all that works, but there is another option out there. But for now, being that we have such a huge amount at Kinder, we need to start addressing some of this like now. But I will, whatever the Council wishes, I will pursue it.

President Abell: I, for one, want to see you pursue it. I actually saw this system in operation in Louisville, Kentucky, and it worked fantastic over there. Mr. Shetler?

Councilmember Shetler: Yeah, I’m inclined to vote that same way. We switched to that four or five years ago at Atlas and everything is totally paperless today. The advantage of it is, I can sit at my desk and I can look up a shipment that’s in Seattle, Washington that happened four years ago. So the Judges, I think, would have a tremendous advantage of being able to get their fingers, not in an hour or two hours or a day or two, from retrieving it from Kinder or from your resources, but at their desks within a few minutes on any cases. So I think there’s a lot of advantages rather than just saving some storage. Obviously, that’s a good one, but the amount of time that they’ll save in having things at their fingertips, I think, would be a tremendous advantage to them. So, thank you.

President Abell: And anyone that wants paper, that’s fine. They can print it out, but then they can throw it away. You can’t, so if you scan it in, you can.

Susan Kirk: True, if a Judge or a Court Reporter, whoever needs that, they can print it out and I will have to say it was Z, was talking about using the company to collect money. Well, we did that last year with Capital Recovery and we did like over – I don’t know, 350,000 just on child support. I would love to be able to do that again and find something that if that company goes out and collects, we get it all. But as Marsha knows, when a case is filed, they’re divvied up. We just get little teeny tiny percentages of it. So we tried, we brought in a little over $300,000 last year that kind of helped the county, but I think we’re pretty well at the end unless you want to nickle and dime it to death.

President Abell: Does anyone else want to talk about the Clerk or then we can go to the IV-D?

Councilmember Sutton: I was just going to ask, as you’re going along, so that we don’t necessarily have to take any special time, if there’s some line items that you feel like, in what you know now and what we’re trying to get to, that we could possibly adjust, if you could just kind of share that with us, because you’ve got three different budgets here. So if you could share that with us.

Susan Kirk: Well, you can take out of line item 3700 probably $200. You can take it out of that and put it in Record Storage.

President Abell: Now we don’t want to move it somewhere else, we want to eliminate it.

Susan Kirk: Okay, well, you can have $200, because really, its only my Chief Deputy and I, we belong to the Clerks Association and I think that’s a hundred dollars apiece and then there’s the Voter Registration Association that deals with our state absentee and all that kind of stuff and I think that’s like $30 maybe. So really, we’re only, we could take $200 out of that. If you need that, that’s fine, because I don’t belong to anything else and I don’t like a bunch of magazines laying around. So there’s $200, Royce, right off the top you can have.

Councilmember Sutton: Okay, give me a few more zeroes in those numbers. Keep working at it here.

Councilmember Raben: That pretty much completes the budget hearings.

Susan Kirk: For any Councilman that’s been here since I’ve started, well, Sandie has, in Voter Registration, I am extremely conservative and I don’t come and ask for things unless we know that we need them and we will spend this money. So I’m just not that type of a person. I’m not stingy exactly but I’m pretty tight with a buck. So our budget is about as close as we can get it and may have to come back and ask for more on the storage. I just want to forewarn you on that.

President Abell: Okay, let’s go to – I’m sorry, go ahead.

CLERK IV-D

Councilmember Raben: Are we on IV-D, now?

President Abell: I was trying to get there, yes.

Councilmember Raben: On IV-D, Susie, what is your balance?

Susan Kirk: I don’t know, Jim, I didn’t look at the balance before I left.

Councilmember Raben: Okay.

President Abell: Maybe you can get that to us.

Susan Kirk: I can do that.

ELECTION OFFICE

President Abell: Let’s go to the Election Office, that’s page 71. That should be pretty easy because that’s all billed back to the City. Oh, this is 2008, sorry about that. This isn’t - no, this is our next county election.

Susan Kirk: I wasn’t going to say anything, I thought well hey, that’s good.

President Abell: Yeah, we’ll bill the city for the county election next year and see if they will pay it. Okay. Questions?

Councilmember Raben: Well, Royce’s question. Where would you cut from here?

Susan Kirk: Well, most of this stuff, 2280, that’s zeroed out, you noticed that. Of course, that went into the Inspector, Judge and Clerks. That’s the $10 for meals. I don’t know, 2008 is going to be a big election, primary and general. I don’t want to cut my Election Assistants because we’re going to try to have three early voting sites which the only cost to us is going to be workers, which is $8 an hour. I would have two people. You’re talking about six extra people, but I think that’s well worth $8 an hour to make it more convenient for the voters to vote. I’m just, I’m really leery to cut anything off it, being it’s going to be such a big election.

Councilmember Sutton: How about that Other Supplies line, 2700, and Contractual Service, 3530, if you could talk about that one, as well.

Susan Kirk: Well, Contractual Services, that’s where Kinder, well, we have to bid that out but, of course, I hope they get it every time. That’s the delivery and pickup of the iVotronics and we’re squeaking by with that one. That’s going to end up going up, too, before its over with. If there were some place I could cut, I would have cut it. I really would have. But, you know, there’s so many Inspectors, so many Judges, so many Clerks. Those are just set costs. And as far as, you know, Postage and Freight, that’s up a little bit because our contract with ES & S is – I’ve got them to change it around a little bit but we’ve paid double for things. We’ve got it in the contract that they do everything, but it’s also in the contract that we can do everything. So and we’ve got the equipment to do it, but yet, we’re not supposed to have the codes to get into Election Systems Software to be able to do it. Its really kind of – it’s kind of bad there, in a way. Now I’ve changed it around to where we did get some money back and Mr. Shetler is aware of that over the precinct supply kits, stuff like that, to where we’re getting other things, some supplies from ES & S, but–

President Abell: This is not something I think you can probably answer right now but we might look into finding out if we can’t deliver these, and I’m obviously very much aware of how big that equipment is, but maybe somebody from the County Garage, we might be able to find a way to cut that delivery cost. That is going to continue to just – I mean, there are some Inspectors that can come in trucks and take their own.

Susan Kirk: I wouldn’t even, this equipment is computerized. It can’t sit in somebody’s trunk or it’s, you know, it’s climate controlled. It just can’t be sitting somewhere hot, humid. I wouldn’t, I’d be –

President Abell: Well, the big unit isn’t computerized. The big unit is just the box it sits in. The computer is in that carry satchel they can take anyway.

Susan Kirk: If you’re taking one, unless you don’t want to use the big stands anymore, you’ve still got to get that junk out there.

President Abell: Well, that’s what I’m saying, if somebody could – well, we’ll talk about it. We might find another way to get those delivered. Any other questions?

Councilmember Raben: Janitorial?

Susan Kirk: Talk to the School Corporation.

President Abell: That’s cleanup after election day.

Susan Kirk: The School Corporation, normally janitorial fees are like $15. But except when we have polling places at the school, we have to pay those janitors what they actually make per hour, which is more than $15. So that’s why that’s the way that is. And that’s figured for how many schools that we currently have using as polling places. And, of course, obviously, in 2008, there’s going to be more schools because it’s county instead of city.

Councilmember Raben: Okay, but I guess looking back at 2006, we spent $2,050. Are we in more schools this – in 2008?

Susan Kirk: Well, you have to figure in their raises. The janitors get raises.

Councilmember Raben: Yeah, but you’re more than doubling it.

Susan Kirk: Well, I went back and picked out the schools and took what we did before, so –

Councilmember Raben: 2006 was only half a budget, so that probably is correct.

President Abell: Any other questions? Thank you.

Susan Kirk: Thanks very much.

PROSECUTOR

President Abell: Prosecutor, page 40. We really don’t want to be arrested. One of you would be plenty, I’m sure.

Stan Levco: I brought reinforcements.

President Abell: So did we.

Stan Levco: I’m Stan Levco, Prosecutor, would you like me to make a brief statement?

President Abell: Certainly, if you’d like.

Stan Levco: Yeah, I think there’s just a few things that are going to be something for you to consider, what I think will be worthy of consideration. I’ll start-off with IV-D, I’ve asked for two more IV-D employees, I have Doug Brown and Malcolm Gwinn to talk about in more detail if you want. But essentially it’s this, it really doesn’t cost the county maybe hardly anything if you do this. You get a 67% reimbursement from the state off the top, but IV-D takes in money and you get incentive from that, so the overall expenditure from the county in the long run is almost zero. And I think it will be more effective for us to have more employees. We could, when we’re ranked in the state, its not very high and I think the major reason is we have the low staff. I’ve handed out a handout here that shows how we compare with the four or five largest counties and we have our staff is one of the smallest and our employees collect as much, if not more, than most of the other counties. So that, I think, is a major thing for you to consider. The other two that I’ve asked for more money on would be the Drug Law Enforcement. The matching grant was cut last year by 15%, and a result of that, we’re asking for an additional $6,000. The other thing I want to talk about is on Domestic Violence, which I think on the surface looks like we’re asking for more than we’re actually asking for. We’re asking for a $33,000 increase, but the reason that increase is so much is I’ve got a new domestic violence prosecutor who has been with the county for over twenty years and as a result of that, his salary is $79,000, and that’s a whole lot more than the previous person who was in there. If I were to not put him into Domestic Violence and just have him as a regular deputy and put in a Deputy with no experience, that would save $27,000 in that category, but it truly wouldn’t save $27,000 because then he’d be paid $27,000 more in the category where the first year person is. Are you following this?

President Abell: Uh-huh.

Stan Levco: So that even though it looks like that’s $20,000 more, it really isn’t. However, there is $5,000 more. I’m asking for $33,000 more, really only 5,000 of it is extra.

President Abell: What line item is that?

Stan Levco: Oh gosh. Its Domestic Violence. Do you know? Well, let me see, I ought to be able to figure it out by the salary. Do you see –

President Abell: Well, I’m looking. Does anybody else know?

Councilmember Sutton: Page 50?

Stan Levco: I was on page 43 to start off.

President Abell: Did anybody find it?

Stan Levco: 108? They’re telling me its 108. On page 50.

President Abell: Page 50. No wonder.

Stan Levco: Is that where it’s 79,329? Yeah, okay. 3994. 1085.

Regene Newman: Yes.

Councilmember Winnecke: (Inaudible – microphone not turned on)

Stan Levco: Okay, I’ll say it again. We’re requesting 79,000 for the salary. That is roughly 25 or 30,000 more than we requested last year. If you said no, I’m not going to do that, I don’t know that you can, but if you did, then I would arguably put somebody else in there with a salary that would be 25,000 less, which I could do, but then I would take, he’s got a name, Neil Thomas, I’d put him in that other person’s position and you’d have to pay an extra 25,000 in that other person’s position, and you’d have to pay that unless you eliminated the job. So the extra that I’m asking for is almost entirely a result of the fact that he has that much longevity as opposed to the person who was in there last year. He’s going to have to be paid that salary somewhere. So really, I’m only asking for about an additional $5,000 in that category even though it looks like I’m asking for 33. It is costing the county $5,000 more overall, not 33,000.

President Abell: Okay, now that I know where that is, what’s the line item that you put somebody else in where he was before?

Stan Levco: Well, he is now in a different, he would be in the Filing Deputy and there would be a number of switches. The Filing Deputy, last year, made more than the Filing Deputy this year because he had more longevity than the present Filing Deputy. So that money I’m asking for is less this year than I got last year for that position. Let’s see if I can figure out that...

President Abell: This is kind of strange.

Stan Levco: Do you know where Gary...

President Abell: This is hard to figure out. Because I didn’t see any that went down, that’s my problem. I don’t see any that went down. Everything I see is going up.

Regene Newman: I’ll get those numbers to you.

Stan Levco: Well, I know Jonathon Parkhurst was here last year, not here now, and made more than his successor is making.

President Abell: Well, that might be the Deputy under line item 1190-1080. It went from 59 to 51,600 next year. If you’d just get us an explanation, we’re not going to sit here and hash it out this minute, but just let us know.

Stan Levco: Okay. I’m sure that one did – at least that one did go down. And the other thing, we asked for 2,000 more in Postage for IV-D, that’s just generally a function of we’re trying to collect more and we use what we need to use. But we’ve asked for 2,000 more there and Royce isn’t here, but to answer his question, I think I want to invoke the smidgen defense also.

President Abell: Now IV-D is on page 44. You’re jumping around and we keep can’t keep up with you. That’s the problem, IV-D is on page 44. And you say you increased what by 2,000?

Stan Levco: Postage.

President Abell: Page 45.

Stan Levco: Other than that, I think we’ve asked for essentially the same thing everywhere.

President Abell: Does anyone have any questions?

Councilmember Leader: I have one. Mr. Levco, why did your Telephone go down? Do you have any idea about that? Significantly.

President Abell: Would you come to the microphone please so we can get this on the record?

Regene Newman: Hi, Regene Newman. Just the cost per month has stayed the same and the amount that was budgeted in there previously, we no longer need that amount. So we cut it down.

Councilmember Leader: Thank you.

President Abell: Any other questions? Mr. Winnecke?

Councilmember Winnecke: Stan, just kind of perusing the handout real quickly, it says you’re asking for two additional administrative employees, but in the budget it says Enforcement Officers. Is that just a semantic difference?

Stan Levco: I think so, yeah. They would be just to help us collect child support.

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, thanks.

President Abell: Any other questions? I have one question, I think I can probably answer it myself. But how many part-time attorneys do you have? Two, three, four?

Stan Levco: You mean Part-time Deputy Prosecutors?

President Abell: Yes, that’s what I meant.

Stan Levco: I think that’d be about four (inaudible), Carithers, Zoss, Berger...five.

President Abell: Five? Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Levco.

Stan Levco: Thank you.

PUBLIC DEFENDER

President Abell: Public Defender. Public Defender is on page 91. Good morning, Mr. Owens.

Steve Owens: Good morning. How are you this morning?

President Abell: Do you have something you want to tell us before we start asking you questions?

Steve Owens: I think probably the only thing that I would point out is that – it’s on page 93 -- you’re going to see two additional full-time employees that we’ve asked that you budget for. One attorney and one secretary. That is the second phase of the juvenile compliance program that we’ve been before the Council on earlier this year. We implemented phase one the latter part of May of 2007. This is the second phase and hopefully the third phase we can kick in, in 2009. So even though we are adding people, it’s to bring the juvenile court into compliance.

Councilmember Winnecke: Steve, which lines are those? I’m sorry.

Steve Owens: Lloyd, those would be 1880, Full-time Deputy Public Defender. It’s the third entry down on page 93. And then 1890 Secretary.

Councilmember Winnecke: Okay, thank you.

President Abell: Any questions? Ms. Leader?

Councilmember Leader: Good morning. I wonder if you could explain the increase in the Pauper Expense for me, please?

Steve Owens: I’ll try to simplify it as much as I can. When we started out, we had a 50 or $60,000 line item Pauper Expense. That pays for supplemental public defenders because we’re pretty well mandated in terms of the case loads, we have to go outside the office. That was zeroed, I believe, in 2006. So we are asking for it to be put back to the level that it previously existed. And in answer to Royce’s question, I suppose if I had to pick an item where I’d say let’s make a cut, I’d probably suggest cutting that somewhat. We are trying to make up the difference through the bond forfeiture account. We’ve been pretty aggressive with that, have been fairly successful. But frankly, given the funding that we did for Death Penalty, we’ve managed to get some money back into that account, but we’re just kind of at a break-even spot right now. So I would guess that if we cut that line item, we could stand some cut, but we’d need more than $10,000.

President Abell: Anyone else? Mr. Goebel?

Councilmember Goebel: Steve, I know the answer to this already, but with a Full-time Public Defender, Juvenile, will that lower the number of part-time employees?

Steve Owens: No.

Councilmember Goebel: Thank you.

President Abell: How many part-time deputies do you have?

Steve Owens: 23 part-time deputies covering the felony, misdemeanor and juvenile courts.

President Abell: 23?

Steve Owens: 23.

President Abell: Any other questions?

Councilmember Winnecke