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Board of Commissioners September 10, 2001 The Vanderburgh County Board of Commissioners
met in session at 6:05 p.m. this 10th day of September, 2001
in Room 307 of the Civic Center Complex with President Mosby presiding.
President Mosby: I would like to call
to order the Board of Commissioners meeting of Vanderburgh County for September
10, 2001.
President Mosby: With us tonight we have Superintendent of Buildings, Tammy McKinney; Counselor, Phil Hayes; Commissioner Fanello; myself; Commissioner Mourdock; Auditor, Suzanne Crouch; and Recording Secretary, Madelyn Grayson. Please stand and say the Pledge. (The Pledge was given.)
President Mosby: First item approval of the minutes of the August 27th meeting. Commissioner Mourdock: Motion to approve. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second. So ordered.
President Mosby: Bill Jeffers, Redistricting. Bill Jeffers: Bill Jeffers, County Surveyor, on the Reprecincting project. We have some more maps for you today, basically the same thing, one correction, involving Center precinct 11 and Center precinct one, where I neglected to remove a dividing line. That's been corrected and this is the final version. It's been provided to both the Democratic and Republican representatives in the Voter Registration Office with the hope that they will transmit those to their party chairman. It was a very simple line correction. We have completed, as of today, and brought down to your office the precinct summary statements, so far as we are able to complete them. There is one for each precinct. We have 139 precincts with voters. Three precincts have no population and no registered voters, for a total of 142. We do have the shape files, which are the electronic data that will be transmitted to the Election Commission showing all 142 precincts for their approval. There's still some information on the precinct summary sheet form, IEC-8, that will have to be filled in by others, and you have employees and there are employees from other departments currently filling that in. Michelle Brzycki, the Democrat representative, from the Indiana Election Commission, and Spencer Valentine, who, I believe, is her supervisor, along with a Republican attorney from the Indiana Election Commission, as required, will be here tomorrow at 1:30 p.m. in our office to look over the information we have. Each IEC-8 form is also accompanied by- Linda Freeman: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Bill Jeffers: -it's an attachment that shows which census blocks compose the precincts and acts as the legal description for the precinct, and it shows the total number, the total population for each precinct. When totaled it matched the total population given by the U.S. Census for Vanderburgh County, so we hit our mark on that. The deadline for all your submittals of these maps and documents and accompanying data is September 19th. On September 27th, the Indiana Election Commission will have it's meeting at which we hope our proposal is approved. I believe it requires proposed order establishing precincts in Vanderburgh County, which I believe your counselor, Philip Hayes, has drafted. That would go with them tomorrow, if it's passed tonight. It will have to be passed by the 19th, so you have tonight or next Monday to do so. We will transmit that to them when it's ready. I also provided Mr. Hayes with copies of each of the two letters that went to the Vanderburgh County political chairpersons of each party. That goes with it to show acknowledgment that they received the maps as required by the Indiana Election Commission. I would like to say, again, that we were very happy that you asked us to participate in this, but I would like to point out that the person in our office who did the lion's share of the work in manipulating the data and creating these shape files was Linda Freeman, our Executive Chief Deputy. She could not have done that without the help also of Tony- Linda Freeman: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Bill Jeffers: -Pardon me? Oh, excuse me, Matt Arvay, GIS Director, came down there on a daily basis, helped us create the shape files. Also this information could not have been compiled today for you without Tony Bushrod and Connie Carrier's help. They were very instrumental in getting these forms filled out in one week with all the Voter Registration, the new Voter Registration counts for each precinct. There were others that helped in this project, so your gratitude should go out to them as well. Commissioner Mourdock: Bill. A couple of questions, Bill. First of all, you said that there were three precincts that did not have any registered voters in them? Bill Jeffers: That's correct. Commissioner Mourdock: I'm sure it's an obvious answer- Bill Jeffers: There's a reason. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, there is. What is it? Bill Jeffers: Okay, one for example would be what we call Ward 6, Precinct 0- President Mosby: I was just going to ask that. Bill Jeffers: -it's called, it's always been a joke, kind of, but it's called 6-0. It's in Center Township rather than Pigeon Township, but it's outside, it's inside the corporate boundary, but- Commissioner Mourdock: Why is it set up as a separate precinct? Bill Jeffers: -because it's not part of Pigeon Township. It's in the City and everything around it is either County or Pigeon Township. So, it is one census block- Commissioner Mourdock: Ah. Bill Jeffers: -an unpopulated kind of a - Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, that's all I wanted to know. Bill Jeffers: -island sandwiched in between two creeks and a corporate boundary. Then, of course, Pigeon one and two, same type of situation. They are surrounded by other, townships other than Pigeon, they are surrounded by Perry and Center, but, so they can't become a part of those two townships, however, they are outside the City limits and can't be considered a City precinct. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: Then we have one precinct that has nine registered voters living around the marina in the new development on the outside of the levy. So, they are outside the corporate boundary. So that is a small precinct with nine voters. These are just precincts that result as a function of the rules that govern- Commissioner Mourdock: Right. Bill Jeffers: -political division. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Second question then, when you started your discussion you said that these maps are, I don't know what your word was, substantially the same, or something. Excuse me. I had met with Bettye Lou today, she was okay with the precincts that she had seen. I just, have you spoken with her this afternoon about the relatively, what I presume are relatively insignificant?-- Bill Jeffers: The only change is what was shown previously as C-11 and C-1, should have all been C-1, or C-11, excuse me. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: There was an extension line that showed up in the digital data as something different than the rest of the precinct lines and it didn't- Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: -we weren't, we didn't punch the right button to clear that line, because- Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Bill Jeffers: -the census data map had it- Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, last question- Bill Jeffers: -on there as an extension line. It was the only extension line that we had in the entire County, and when we tried to get rid of it we used the wrong command. Commissioner Mourdock: Last question then, given that you have the folks coming in tomorrow from the state, I came here this evening expecting that we would go ahead and act on these precincts. Do you, is it your thought that, or your suggestion that you want to meet with the folks from the state tomorrow and then we do this next Monday so that would still meet the 19th deadline? Or are you thinking we should do it prior to their reviewing?-- Bill Jeffers: I'm confident enough that if you're easy with it, we could go ahead and do it tonight. If they happen to reject it, we could come back with an amended request next Monday. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah. Bill Jeffers: I would like to get as much of a jump on it ahead of the other...I mean, we're a big county. I would like to get us in before they are jammed up with proposed- Commissioner Mourdock: Right. Bill Jeffers: -precincting orders. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, we are one of the first from the group, the timetable they put together, ours is in the first group going forward, so that may play to our advantage. Bill Jeffers: I wouldn't mind being the first county approved. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah. Bill Jeffers: So that our Clerk can get on with her business of preparing the ballots, and the precinct committeeman from both parties know where they live now and can file- Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. Bill Jeffers: -for their election and, oh, the other thing I would like to touch on is there may be a need to make some minor adjustments to the Commissioners districts to make sure that if some of them happen to follow old precinct lines that we've crossed, that at least they would conform to the new precinct lines. I hadn't thought of that until after we met two weeks ago, that there may be a possibility that we crossed a Board of Commissioners line- Commissioner Mourdock: With a precinct? Bill Jeffers: -by combining a precinct or something. Commissioner Fanello: I think- Bill Jeffers: We may have to look at that for you as well as any other redistricting that you have in mind. Linda Freeman: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Bill Jeffers: So the sooner we can get these approved, the quicker we can do the following jobs you may have for us. Commissioner Fanello: I'll go ahead and make the motion to approve the repricinting as submitted by the Surveyor's office. Commissioner Mourdock: I will second and pass along Mrs. Jerrel's compliments to the two of you and everyone else involved- Bill Jeffers: And there were many other people involved. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, her comment was that there were a couple of little ones that she might talk to you about, but it was nothing that she saw at all that was of any great concern with the precincts, so I will second the motion. President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered. Philip Hayes: Bill if I could ask, we have an order prepared then establishing the precincts and I'll just see to it that the Auditor collects the signatures today. I was going to do that in several copies originally so that their would be one available for, the election division attorneys would like to have one. The statement of notification also then can be signed by the President only. It has an exhibit which is the referred to correspondence that the Surveyor sent by certified mail to both chairs. If you have anything supplemental to that, you said that the supplemental tweaking of lines was simply sent down to the Election Office? Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir. Philip Hayes: Okay, so if there is a memo or anything else, that could be handled just by attaching it. The notifications are not by rule, not by statute, they are by custom established through the Election Commission. It's something they like to do, so they are not going to be, I'm told, terribly strict about that. One other question, on the precinct summary, if you just sign all copies of that, Mr. President, and then they can be taken by Bill tonight, if all of you have signed all the orders and the Auditor's attested that. On the precinct summary statement that you handed probably, Linda, there was this item, and I don't know if that requires- Linda Freeman: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Philip Hayes: -any kind of action? Linda Freeman: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Philip Hayes: School corporation does? Bill Jeffers: Those would coincide with the Commissioner boundary lines. Philip Hayes: Okay. Bill Jeffers: That is why I left it blank, and that is why I mentioned that tonight- Philip Hayes: Oh, I see. Bill Jeffers: -because we did not examine to see if a precinct may have- Philip Hayes: So you- Bill Jeffers: -inadvertently crossed one of those lines. Philip Hayes: So you will handle that issue at your meeting tomorrow then? Bill Jeffers: Yes, sir. Philip Hayes: Okay. Then on the back, Linda, all of the- Linda Freeman: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Philip Hayes: -all of this is going to be taken care of tomorrow then? Or rather - Bill Jeffers: Or some for completion. Philip Hayes: -final action, okay, on the 19th. Linda Freeman: That's when all of the paperwork has to be submitted. The 27th is the actual meeting date. Philip Hayes: I see. Bill Jeffers: Some of these were left blank because we didn't have the answers. We got one today from the Deputy County Clerk. The date of the first election cycle is the date of the May primary 2002. So, that came to us today and we'll be filling that in. There is some other blanks that we were waiting for information for, and we'll handle as many of them as we can tomorrow with the Indiana Election Commission representatives. Philip Hayes: Okay, and so the precinct summary statement that has been furnished to the Commissioners tonight is just simply for our records? Bill Jeffers: That is what, that is the nature of it's completeness as of today. Philip Hayes: Alright. Very good. We'll hold on to that. I see Tony is here tonight, Bushrod, and Chairman Melchoir have any comments that were known to you? Tony Bushrod: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Philip Hayes: Alright. Very good. Thanks, Bill. Bill Jeffers: I would be happy to send a copy of the memo to both chairpersons, if you would like for me to as well. Commissioner Mourdock: Sure. Bill Jeffers: About the fact that that one inadvertent precinct- Philip Hayes: I think that would be appropriate, because the notifications they've gotten show hard data, so I think any change should go ahead...as I mentioned, it's not a rule, it's not an administrative rule, it isn't anything other than a request, and it goes a long way , I think, toward avoiding any misunderstandings- Bill Jeffers: Right. Philip Hayes: -according to what I was informed by the legal office at the Election Division. So, that would be fine. Bill Jeffers: Okay. Commissioner Mourdock: One other bit of business I'll bring up at this point since it's election related. One of the things we set Bill and his staff up to do is to see if we could realistically reduce the number of precincts, which they did quite admirably, from 167 to 142. I was contacted this week by Christopher Lee who is the attorney for the Election Board, and we have a bit of a decision we need to make. I've prepared a letter and put it in the file tonight, but because the need for voting machines will be there in 2002, and because we still are not certain what the state is going to do with it's reimbursement program to help counties buy new machines or lease new machines, it was suggested, and I think it's a good suggestion, that we go ahead and lease for at least one year the voting equipment we've used in the past. The company we've leased with, and we don't own any equipment, all the equipment that we use in election years is leased, but I think we need to start that process. So I've included that document in the file and I think we need to give them some direction to get going, especially now that we know how many precincts we'll have. Commissioner Fanello: Do you need a motion for that? Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move that we sign the letter as drafted. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second. So ordered. Thank you, Bill.
President Mosby: County Engineer, permission to open Notice to Bidders on repair and repaving of Eissler Road. Commissioner Mourdock: Those packages were already submitted, so I'll move that we direct the County Attorney to go ahead and open those bids and review for his report. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: Motion and second
to open the bids.
President Mosby: Tom Norton, first reading and public hearing regarding vacation of an easement located at 2125 Glenview. Tom Norton: Thank you, Mr. President. President Mosby: Okay, go ahead. Tom Norton: Good evening, I'm Tom Norton, I'm a local attorney and I'm representing EDC Investments LLC. The managing member of EDC is with me here tonight, Eric Dodd, immediately to my left. As the agenda says this is an attempt to, or seeking your permission to vacate an easement. More specifically, a couple of small public utility easements. To put you in the general area, where they are located is on outer St. Joe Avenue about a half mile south, or a mile, half mile south of the County Garage. The first portion of the easement which we seek a vacation for is in Glenview Industrial Park, and if I may, a picture is worth a thousand words, give you copies of Glenview Industrial Park. My client owns lot seven which is shaded in pink, and then you will notice the orange stripe at the top on the north side of Glenview on lot seven, that is one of the easements, that's a 10' public utility easement, which is generally for sewers, small sewers, small electric line transmission, those type of things. Second half of this occurs in a subdivision immediately north of Glenview which is St. Joe Industrial Park, and my drawings aren't good on that particular one,I'll hand them to you, the top of the page would be north on the way I'm handing them to you. Part of the land that my client owns is shaded in green and then the immediate south portion of that you'll see a yellow shaded segment which is, that's the 15' public utility easement on the south portion of that property. The two properties adjoin one another, so when you put them together in one drawing they appear like this with the two public utilities in between, one in yellow and one in orange. Then the pink property below it is the Glenview and then the green is St. Joe property. So, my client has purchased these properties and they are now together and as you can see on that drawing he seeks to install a building which will straddle the two property lines and hence cross over the two easements. In order to facilitate the building of the same we are now seeking to now get those easements vacated so we can proceed with the building project. Notice has been issued to all surrounding property owners and to anyone within 200' of the area sought to be vacated. I furnished to the Auditor's Office a statement that there has been no objections. We've had no replies back on that. All utilities have been notified. Water Department and Insight did not reply to the notifications. Ameritech did and said fine. I think we furnished a letter to that effect. Vectren and Sigecom have both, they had a small guy wire into one of the easements, and we agreed and have given a separate private easement for that in exchange for their agreement to not object to the vacation of this public utility easement. Quickly I've said why we need it is to put a building at that location. That will end up being basically a general mechanical building for the trucks that are out at that location. We're here tonight basically because state law requires us to get a public utility vacation through this body. Having said all that, I think we'll just open ourselves for any questions you all might have. If there is any technical issues, Eric could perhaps handle them better than I could. Commissioner Mourdock: Only question I have, Phil, maybe you can give us some guidance on the several that did not respond. You say you provided notice but they did not respond? Tom Norton: Yes, the utilities? Commissioner Mourdock: Right. Tom Norton: Yes, the Water Department and Insight. This being an industrial subdivision, I don't think Insight would really have a dog in this fight anyway. They are in cable television. Why the Water Department did not, my obligation is to notify them, why they don't respond or choose not to is something I have no control over. Commissioner Mourdock: Right. There is currently no water line in that easement though? Tom Norton: No. In fact, that's true, there is no utilities presently in there other than the guy wire that comes over slightly. Commissioner Mourdock: No utilities of any kind? Tom Norton: No. Philip Hayes: Yeah, it, I tracked that down and I did have a chance to talk to Tom on it. The reason for their non response would be that they have no interest in it. I think we can presume that they would have checked their maps, so it appears to be a routine vacation of an easement that was originally dedicated on the industrial plat and then, Tom, this piece of ground has been severed, is that right? Tom Norton: Part of the lot five has been a sub plat and this little portion that is on our property has- Philip Hayes: Right. Tom Norton: -yeah, that's been separated out. Philip Hayes: So, the subdivision, the subdivision of the subdivision has occasioned the eradication of this line, so that you can get your building space in it. So from that standpoint it seemed routine enough. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, there's no question in your mind that the legal need for notification has been met? Philip Hayes: Yes, oh, the notification standard has been met, yes. Commissioner Mourdock: On first reading, I'll move approval of the vacation of the easement located at 2125 Glenview Drive. Commissioner Fanello: Second. Philip Hayes: That's the other thing about the notification, the advertising has yet to take effect, has yet to be done. Tom Norton: No, I believe- Philip Hayes: Are we at the end of the line here? Tom Norton: Yeah, we're at the end of the line. President Mosby: Is this second and third reading? Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, you're right, because we had this one last week and the week before. Madelyn Grayson: That was just permission to advertise. Philip Hayes: Yeah, we had permission to advertise before. President Mosby: So, I guess my question is though is this final reading? Madelyn Grayson: Next Monday will be final. President Mosby: Next Monday will be final reading. Philip Hayes: Next Monday will be. President Mosby: I'm going to express an interest or a concern here. If you don't have something from these utilities, I'm going to be very hesitant to vote for this. Tom Norton: Well, as I said, we've got it- President Mosby: I can't help if they haven't responded. You need to call them. I would like to see something in writing that they have nothing there. No future plans or use for this ground. Really I would like to see that with all the utilities. Tom Norton: As I said- President Mosby: I mean, I'm used to having something in my hand that tells me they been out there and looked at the site. Philip Hayes: Generally, that would be right in terms of the way it's done initially, but I'm satisfied, and not that that's not a good idea. It could have been neglected out there and probably out of due regard for them we ought to give their engineering department a call. You can call Herb Butler and I think that ought to be forthcoming. Since this is a, since this is in essence a replat, I think is what you would call it, or a minor subdivision procedure you went through? Tom Norton: I can't address to that because I wasn't involved in that. Philip Hayes: Okay, by whatever device, you were allowed a combination. You've been allowed to combine and these design changes from the original plat are often required. You see them with roads where cul-de-sacs or eyebrows sometimes are eliminated. That wouldn't be a bad idea as a matter of practice because it could be that the others have over looked it and they may have something to trade out so. Tom Norton: I do have one other final- President Mosby: John, have you seen this? Did you sign off? John Stoll: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Philip Hayes: Here's the copy. Here's one, John. Do you want to see it? There you go. Yeah, that's good. Tom Norton: I do have the letters, I think I've already given them to the Auditor's Office and that's already shown...Ameritech has indicated they have no objections. President Mosby: Because that is what I would want to see. I want to see something from Vectren, Ameritech, Insight, the County Engineer. Tom Norton: I can't speak to Insight, they have not replied, I don't believe, and the Water Department has not. Those are the only two, but the five we are directed to issue notice to and that would be Ameritech, Vectren and Sigecom, Insight and Water Department. Ameritech, Vectren and Sigecom have replied, and based on the private easement which we have given to Vectren...Sigecom and Vectren had no problem with this, nor does Ameritech. President Mosby: So, the ordinance doesn't state that you have to notify the County Engineer? Tom Norton: I gave John separate- Philip Hayes: John's seen it. John Stoll: I didn't respond in writing because it was a utility easement and typically we don't have any involvement in utility easements, but I can submit something in writing if you would like. President Mosby: I would just prefer that. I mean, over in the City we always had the engineer sign off. John Stoll: Okay. President Mosby: I mean we always got letters from everybody. I mean, in the city we even had the City police and fire sign off. Where I don't think it would hurt to have the Sheriff and the volunteer fire department signing off here. That is something we will have to deal with, but- Tom Norton: I just wanted the Commissioners to know we followed whatever directions were available to us from the package that goes with these type of vacation proceedings. President Mosby: I just don't want somebody coming back saying, well, we didn't respond to that and we intend to run a water line right down through there and then we have to come back and try to buy property or whatever. So, I mean, that is going to be my concern that Water and Sewer has no future use out here. Tom Norton: I would say east of there is probably nothing to extend to. I don't think there is even anything there that anybody would want to extend to. There is a rail line right next to this property. Eric Dodd: There's a railroad easement- Philip Hayes: Well, this is an on-site easement, not an off-site, so I don't think they would be coming across. They've got an administrative rule against crossing property lines with a force main, so they wouldn't be able to do that. Tom Norton: I mean really the only property that these easements serve is my client- Philip Hayes: Exactly. Tom Norton: -more than anybody else, and he's willing to let them go so he can build his building. Philip Hayes: Yeah. Why don't you go ahead, Tom, and comply. I think as a matter of practice it doesn't hurt to do that so that we've got some uniformity. I hate to, I don't want to put a rule on you after the fact. A couple of phone calls probably wouldn't hurt. If you need any assistance with that, feel free to call me or John. Tom Norton: Just to Insight and the Water Department? Philip Hayes: Well, yeah, uh-huh, that would be Herb Butler. Is there, well, that would be sewer, Water and Sewer. Tom Norton: Then we'll be back here- Philip Hayes: You're coming back, I think- President Mosby: That would be Monday, I guess. Philip Hayes: Yeah, your motion can be subject to the, subject to your satisfaction as to notification. Commissioner Mourdock: For first reading I don't know that we even need to make it conditional. David's expressed his concern- Philip Hayes: That's right. Commissioner Mourdock: -and they have to deal with that prior to final. President Mosby: It will just be when we vote next week. Philip Hayes: If that will take care of it, yeah. Then we will be glad to assist you in the process, if you would like to get- Eric Dodd: All we need is Insight, County Engineer, and Mc Cutchanville Volunteer? Philip Hayes: That's your volunteer Fire Department? President Mosby: It don't state that we have to have that. I'm not as concerned about fire and police right now as I am just making sure that we have- Philip Hayes: Yeah. President Mosby: -making the utilities and the County Engineer. Eric Dodd: That would be Insight, the Water Department, and the County Engineer. Commissioner Mourdock: Right. President Mosby: And the County Engineer. Philip Hayes: Yeah. Tom Norton: Will our attendance be necessary at the next meeting? Is there a need for more discussion from us, or other than presentation of these items? Not that I'm having any hesitancy about being here, but I just want to make sure. President Mosby: No. If we get the information, I won't have a problem. Tom Norton: Thank you very much. President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second. So ordered.
President Mosby: I guess go back to the opening of the bids. Philip Hayes: There are two responses on project VC01-09-01, and first response is from JH Rudolph and Company Incorporated. I've lost my place. Total amount on JH Rudolph is $55,187.20, itemized proposal. The second response on the same invitation is E&B Paving Incorporated. Their non-inclusion affidavit and appropriate bond information is here. Their total itemized proposal is $53,332.78. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move...thank you...I'll move we take the bids under advisement. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered. Madelyn Grayson: May we make a quick tape change? President Mosby: Sure. (Tape Changed)
President Mosby: Any other group or individual wishing to address the board? Commissioner Fanello: I think Rose, I think Richard asked Rose to give an update on the Greenriver Road and a couple of projects that were reported on last week. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, it wasn't Greenriver as much as- Commissioner Fanello: Or the Lloyd, yeah. Commissioner Mourdock: -the Lloyd. Rose having seen the headline the other day about two year delays of working through the Lloyd, my concern is how much we know about that at this point, and is there anyway that we can short cut those times? I guess I'll start my comment with what I ought to end it with, which is recently up on the northwest side of Indianapolis they did something like $50 or $60 million worth of work on 65 where it comes into 465, and they did that on, I believe, a design build basis. It allowed the whole project to get done far, far, far ahead of what their projected deadline was. As we've spoken before with some state projects locally, I would like to know what we see them doing? Or what we can have them include in that bid to expedite this process? I'm wondering if they are looking at 24 hour a day operations or whatever? So, with that, I will turn it over to you. Rose Zigenfus: Okay. I don't know where you want me to start or how much you want me to repeat what was in the, in the news from the policy committee meeting, but in essence there are two projects; the elevation of the Lloyd at Boeke Road and the Greenriver Road interchange modification that is going to occur. All of that is going to happen at the same time. They are going to begin the interchange and the Boeke Road the first year. Then as they complete Boeke Road, they will continue with the interchange for the second year. They are going to narrow...during phase one and phase two, traffic is going to be maintained on the existing pavement, while the shoulder and the median are replaced in preparation for the shift in traffic. That's the first phase of getting it ready. During phase three then, traffic is going to be maintained on the east bound lanes with two lanes in each direction, while the west bound lanes are constructed. Both the west bound off ramp and the east bound on ramp at Boeke Road will be closed. Left turns will not be permitted at Vann during construction at all. Vann Avenue north of Lloyd and the east side of Vann, south of the Lloyd will be reconstructed. Traffic south of the Lloyd will be shifted to the west side of Vann with one lane in each direction provided. You can stop me anytime. President Mosby: I'm just picturing all of this. Rose Zigenfus: I know, and it takes a little bit to picture it. I have drawings, but I don't know if it's conducive to lay them out up there and show you this. Would you prefer that? Commissioner Mourdock: My question is more about the process. I'm sorry. My question comes back more to the process of how this is going out more than the actual work. I mean, the phasing has to be done as it has to be done just from the nature of the construction business, but what are we doing to expedite? Why should I believe, and this isn't a question for you as much as it is to the state, why should I believe that this project should take two years as opposed to something less? Rose Zigenfus: Well, the majority of the work is at the interchange, and the project includes elevation of the Lloyd Expressway by about 4' to 5', and it includes expansion of the bridge. So, they are building the bridge up and out to allow for the double left turns in all directions. I believe that INDOT is going to make every effort to either stay on schedule with the two years time frame that they are looking at or shorten it. They have not gotten to the point where they have written the contract. This project is scheduled for a November-December letting. At that point they will begin to write the contract, and at that point we hope to be involved so that we can tell them we want...I don't know if we are going to want around the clock construction because of the residential area that is very close. If you do around the clock construction, you know, you are causing a lot of noise for the neighbors in that area. So, I don't know what's going to be permitted, but we are going to look at those kinds of things to expedite the project. I mean, we have to. Now, I think INDOT is interested in doing those kinds of incentive or decentive efforts because they took a beating on the Lloyd Bridge. I mean, and they deserved it. They deserved that, but I think that, you know, they are wary of that and they want to make amends so to speak. I'll quit there. Commissioner Mourdock: Again, the process question, I guess, it's not just the County Commission here, but something we will probably need to work with the Mayor's Office and the City Engineer's Office as well. Rose made the comment about we hope to be involved, you know, I would scratch that word hope and, quite frankly, say we demand to be involved- Rose Zigenfus: Uh-huh. Commissioner Mourdock: -because I think the history of what the state has done on the Lloyd as far as everything from going over Pigeon Creek out here a few years ago to flooding out on that side of town, I mean, I just don't have the greatest faith in the DOT, and I know they are going through a lot of changes up there as well right now. So, by the way, when you say they are going to raise it 5', was there any comment made about the flooding problems we've had in the past out there? Lake Lloyd? Rose Zigenfus: Yes, and that's the reason for the elevation. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Rose Zigenfus: Because they want to correct, I mean, they know that that was a problem and they made a mistake in the engineering of that. Commissioner Mourdock: I guess my point is, if the water is not going there...we hear this at the Drainage Board meetings every week, if the water's not going there, it's going someplace else, and this someplace else now, if it's not going there is it going to be in somebody else's yard and somebody else's basement. You know, those are the kind of things I think we have to be involved in, because we will be involved one way or the other if it's done wrong, believe me. So, John, do you have any thoughts on the contract specs here as far as 24 hour day operations or any other part of it you would like to comment on? Rose, you are free to say more if you'd like. John Stoll: If we were in Marion County, sure, we'd be fine. Commissioner Mourdock: Bad answer, John, bad answer. President Mosby: Truthful, but bad. Commissioner Mourdock: Correct. John Stoll: I really haven't been that much involved with Rose on that simply because it's all within the City limits that they are doing right now. I know whenever the Fulton Bridge was originally put under contract we had requested that that be a flat counter day completion contract and they did make that change- Commissioner Mourdock: After they told us it wouldn't work that way, and then they bid it and we actually got a cheaper price. John Stoll: Yep. Too bad it turned out the way it did as far as the delays, but I mean as far as- Commissioner Mourdock: It wasn't because of the contract. John Stoll: -right, the original scope of the contract they were within six to seven weeks of having it done when the pier shifted. So, they at least were receptive to making that change. Now how they would have treated it on a contract that is all INDOT money as opposed to local money involved, I really don't know. Commissioner Mourdock: Well, your comment if it were in Marion County we know how it would work. I mean, I think that's the attitude we have to have. This county is every bit as good as Marion County. Our tax dollars are worth just as much to us as theirs are to them. We have to hold firm to make sure we get this project done in less time, not more time. Rose Zigenfus: I will carry that message. I mean, I will relay your message. I think your right. Commissioner Mourdock: How can we best relay that message. Rose Zigenfus: Would the Commission like to do something official in writing? I mean, I think that that's appropriate if you want to do that. Commissioner Fanello: I was also going to say that we got a letter the other day which I was going to pass along that this Thursday INDOT is having a meeting in Vincennes and they are inviting anyone to come and speak about projects or anything we want to talk about. So that is...they are having two sessions on Thursday, one from 2:30 to 4:30 and another one from 5:30 to 7:30. Commissioner Mourdock: I won't be able to do that, but I will certainly have a letter ready representing at least this board members position. Tammy, if you don't mind I will e-mail that to you and then if you will make sure it gets up there, that's a start. I will certainly leave extra blanks on that letter if both of you would like to sign on, because I just have a bad feeling about this. I have to tell ya. Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. We've all heard that one. I just want to make sure we get this thing done right. Rose Zigenfus: We are going up to the meeting in Vincennes on Thursday. Commissioner Fanello: John, are you planning on attending? John Stoll: Yeah, I've got a travel request turned in. Commissioner Fanello: Okay. President Mosby: You're going to the one in Vincennes on Thursday? Okay. Rose Zigenfus: That is also an opportunity...it's their annual call for projects. I brought the information because I didn't know if you had that. So, that if there are some projects that you would like to see initiated, this is the time to communicate that also. The one thing that we are going to be suggesting to them, and we feel rather strongly that it's a necessary project, currently the project along the Highway 41 corridor from Diamond Avenue to Boonville New-Harmony Road calls for added travel lanes and improvements at various intersections. We would like to see the six laning of 41 carried all the way through into Gibson County beyond Warrenton Road and then they can taper it down wherever they like. That interchange currently is quite heavily traveled given the trucks and the three truck stops that are right there. Currently we are also doing rural planning for Gibson County so we've seen the need extend into that area. We think, you know, if you make that request now of INDOT to six lane Highway 41 all the way into Gibson County, probably in the next seven to ten years we might see that occur. We are not going to see it less than that, because this is the time when they initiate new projects. Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. Have we gotten any feedback from them given current budget dilemmas? How any of that is going to come into play with these? Rose Zigenfus: No. Commissioner Mourdock: Because I can't imagine them being nearly as aggressive as you mentioned five or six years in the future. I think they are going to hold their breath in the next year to see what happens before they go five to six. Not to say we shouldn't still put plans forward. Rose Zigenfus: Right. It will just mean it will be pushed out like we've seen the project on Lloyd and 62 and Diamond Avenue has just been, you know, pushed out year after year. Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. Have we ever tracked projects in Marion County and the surrounding counties and how far they are pushed out versus ours? Rose Zigenfus: No, I've never looked at that. It's probably a good thought. Commissioner Mourdock: Yes, that would be interesting to see, because I think we need to quit playing Mr. Nice Guy and get more aggressive on how we demand our funding up there. I know there's more votes up there and I know there's more people up there and all that, but- Rose Zigenfus: Uh-huh. Commissioner Mourdock: -what is it the Lloyd right now is the second most traveled section of highway in Indiana, is that right? On car counts. I heard something along those lines the other day. Is that accurate? Rose Zigenfus: No. I don't know. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, I thought I heard that said, so. Rose Zigenfus: I can't imagine that we've got more traffic than the Boorman or 465. Commissioner Mourdock: That's why it stunned me when I heard it. Rose Zigenfus: Yeah. I can't imagine that. Commissioner Mourdock: Well- Rose Zigenfus: I mean, we have our fair share down on the Lloyd between Boeke and Vann there's almost 70,000 cars a day. Commissioner Mourdock: Right. Rose Zigenfus: So, I mean, that's a substantial number. Commissioner Mourdock: It's not obviously spread evenly around the clock either. Rose Zigenfus: No. The project, like I said, is on a letting for November and December with construction, hopefully, in the Spring. The cost is somewhere in the neighborhood of $7.5 for the Boeke-Vann improvements and $8.8 for the interchange. The interchange is being built with national highway, NHS, funds which is National Highways of Significance money, designated only to the Lloyd and to the Interstate and to 41. It's not taking away from other regular road money. Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. Rose Zigenfus: I think two important things to maybe remember is that, number one there will be no left turns on to and off of Vann Avenue during this time period- Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah. Rose Zigenfus: -and that the Boeke Road on ramp is going to be closed during the duration of the Boeke project. Commissioner Mourdock: That, when you mentioned that previously, and you made a good point about the possibility of residents having less than a full desire to see 24 hour a day operations, but by the same token they are the same people who aren't going to be able to make those left turns, because that is how they come out of there to go to work. So, it seems to me we have to do whatever we can to speed this thing along. So, as I say, no more Mr. Nice Guy. If we have to do something different with INDOT. Rose Zigenfus: There is only one ramp at the Greenriver Road interchange that will be closed and that is the west bound off ramp, and that will be for about 14 days. Going back to the Vann Avenue area, when there is a stadium event, the barrels that will be blocking that left turn lane, or that ability to make left turns will be removable so that when there are stadium events, the stadium people or police can remove those barrels and allow traffic to flow in and out of that area. I might say too that in preparation for all of this there was a meeting back August the 15th and various agencies were represented. We had the School Corporation, the Police Department, the Sheriff's Department, the Fire Department, EMA, the City Engineer, Transportation and Services for the City, Board of Public Safety was there, Roberts Stadium people were there, so that everyone is aware of what's going to be happening and we wanted input from everyone. What we are going to try and do is utilize the electronic message board signs more effectively. We need to get Central Dispatch involved in that as well as the contractor. Let's see, what else? It's been a concerted effort. There has been a lot of people involved. We don't want to make the same mistakes that we made before. We want to get it done as quickly as possible. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll just conclude by saying, I'm encouraged that they are not at the contract letting stage yet, and that the contract hasn't been written. It's been my experience, and feel free to comment, but if they are telling us now that it's going to be on the November letting, it will probably slide a month or two past that anyway- Rose Zigenfus: Yeah. Commissioner Mourdock: -so we do have time to get our comments and concerns in there, and I will certainly say something more to the Mayor, and, David, you might want to pass something on to your ex -cohorts on the City Council to make sure we are well represented on this one. President Mosby: Okay. Commissioner Mourdock: Thank you. President Mosby: No problem. Questions? Thank you, Rose. Rose Zigenfus: Your welcome. President Mosby: Appreciate it. Rose Zigenfus: Alright.
President Mosby: Any other group or individual wishing to address the board? Seeing none. Go ahead. Commissioner Fanello: Did you already
come to the Commission meeting? Okay. Well, I knew I'd seen you at the
Council meeting. Short memory.
President Mosby: Okay, Department Head Reports. Did you have something? Oh, I thought you had something. County Engineer. John Stoll: First of all I've got a request for street and storm sewer acceptance in Phase One of Section Two of Stonecreek Subdivision. The streets that are requested to be accepted are 329 linear feet of Cayes Drive and 142' of Granfield Court. It's recommended these streets be accepted for maintenance. Commissioner Fanello: So moved. Commissioner Mourdock: Second. President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered. John Stoll: Also in that same subdivision we've got a request for storm sewer acceptance outside of streets rights-of-way. This for a total of 575' of storm sewers at $2.00 a foot. The fee was $1,150, and we have received the check, so it's recommended that this be accepted for maintenance. Commissioner Fanello: So moved. Commissioner Mourdock: Second. President Mosby: So ordered. John Stoll: Next I would like to recommend that contract number VC01-08-03, the Vanderburgh Industrial Park Railroad Spur be awarded to Koberstein Trucking for the amount of $949,900. Commissioner Fanello: We'll need to discuss that for a second. The Commissioners are going to have to front the whole project money because the Council has not put their money in place as they had said they were going to do, and that has not been done as of this date. So, we are going to have to write a money, write a purchase order for every dollar we have right now available in Riverboat. The grants that we've applied for from the state, one of the grants has been received by the state and that is, we will be reimbursed as the project moves along. The other grant is in the process and Mary Wildeman and Jane Reel in DMD are working on that along with getting some details for that grant. So those are all taken care of and in the process, but in order to keep...go ahead. John Stoll: I was going to say, and we did receive the $176,000- Commissioner Fanello: Yes. John Stoll: -from the Industrial Foundation. Commissioner Fanello: Yes. So in order to keep this on the time frame, the rail spur is supposed to be completed by, I believe, January 31st? John Stoll: Correct. Commissioner Fanello: 2002, so in order to keep this on schedule because there are penalties involved in that if it's not completed on time, penalties for lack of a better word, you can explain it a little bit better if you want, but it looks like we are going to have up front the whole thing. I did talk to Councilman Winnecke today and I am going to turn in an appropriation for the Council to appropriate the money to put back into our accounts, but we are going to have to up front everything until we get our reimbursement. Commissioner Mourdock: So is that then, in defining the problem, just that we had not had the appropriation request in? That we had not filed the appropriation request? Commissioner Fanello: Well, I don't know why we would have needed to put the appropriation request in, because the Council was the one who decided to give the money. I mean, if it was...I've been talking to several Council members for about three months now to get this done, and I was told I need to talk to so and so and so and so to get this done. So, the point being, we have to write every dollar out of our Riverboat. We're not going to have any money to spend out of Riverboat until we get reimbursed back from the Council. Commissioner Mourdock: Right. Go ahead. Suzanne Crouch: I think you just file an additional appropriation. Maybe that was kind of a communication gap that happened. Commissioner Fanello: No, that's not the communication I had when I talked to the two Councilmen that I talked to. They were going to take care of it. I don't know that it was our responsibility to take care of it. If it was, that's fine, we would have done so, but I was told by those Councilmen that they would talk to their other Councilmen and get everything completed, so. President Mosby: I was going to say I had conversation with- Commissioner Fanello: Yeah. President Mosby: -the Finance Chairman, and he assured me in a meeting with Lloyd Winnecke that this would be taken care of and that they would pay it, and I guess, evidently, they failed to appropriate the money. I don't know. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, well, I'm not looking to make a big deal here, okay. It sounds like if we had formally done a Council call, that we wouldn't have this present problem, is that right? I mean is it simply a procedural thing? Is that what- President Mosby: Two months ago is about as much time as you can give somebody. Commissioner Mourdock: I understand, but I'm just saying- President Mosby: It's more than three months ago that I talked to them. Commissioner Mourdock: -and again, I'm not trying to argue, I want to move past this quick. I'm simply saying if we need, as we often do, or I know we've done several times in this year, and certainly have done many times in past years, if we need to formally do the Council call to have that happen, then that's, I guess, the lesson learned. Commissioner Fanello: Well, I agree with you on that, except for the fact that I was told not to do anything until this Councilman talked to his other Councilmen, so I was told not to do anything until that was done, and it was never done, so. Other than that, I will make a motion to award the bid and we'll get the purchase order- President Mosby: Well, how much money are we talking about here? Commissioner Fanello: We're talking about $900- John Stoll: $49,900. Commissioner Fanello: I don't even know if we have enough money- President Mosby: I was going to say, do we even have that much money in Riverboat is my question to you? Suzanne Crouch: I would have to check to see what you have available in Infrastructure and Economic Development. You do have $600,000 that's unappropriated. Commissioner Fanello: But we can't really write the- President Mosby: Well, I mean, do we need to take a recess so you can check? I mean, we are going to have to. We can't okay this- Suzanne Crouch: I would think that you probably could check off of your reports. Commissioner Fanello: I could run back there and check real quick. Could you go ahead and explain the time since- John Stoll: Yeah, I was going to say, I believe there was in excess of $450,000 in each of those accounts. Combine that with the $176,000 check we received, as far as I know there's enough money in there to cover it. What Catherine was talking about in regard to time frames, the contract has to be...the rail spur has to be available for Graham's use by January 31st or there is a $650 a day liquidated damages clause for the contractor. If we waited until the next Council meeting before the money was appropriated, then we would be delaying the contractor another month and I think we would be hard pressed to ever get that liquidated damages assessment if we delayed it for a month. Commissioner Mourdock: It's based on that hard date of what did you say January? John Stoll: January 31st. Commissioner Mourdock: 31st. John Stoll: The biggest problem we are going to run into this time of year is the weather- Commissioner Mourdock: Sure. It's always at our option to impose liquidated damages. I mean, if he doesn't meet that date because of our error, we certainly have- John Stoll: Right. Commissioner Mourdock: -the possibility not to have that as a fighting issue. John Stoll: That was- Commissioner Mourdock: It makes sense that we not do that. John Stoll: That was something that was set up by the Industrial Foundation on the basis of that was what it was going to cost Graham to bring in their materials by truck instead of by rail, and they came up with that figure before they passed this project on to the County. So, whether that is an accurate figure or not, I couldn't say for certain- Commissioner Mourdock: But that does give it a different wrinkle. John Stoll: -but that is what it's based on. Commissioner Mourdock: That does give it a different wrinkle. Philip Hayes: John, and the liquidated damages proportion of that agreement is split three ways. Is that your understanding? Commissioner Mourdock: The County, the VIP, and- Philip Hayes: and Graham, right. John Stoll: No, the change orders. Commissioner Fanello: That's change orders only. President Mosby: The change orders are split three ways. Philip Hayes: Well, three ways on the change order, but this is not, this is not considered part of it? Commissioner Mourdock: Liquidated damages? Philip Hayes: The liquidated damages portion is not part of the change? Commissioner Fanello: I don't think so. Philip Hayes: The clause? John Stoll: I see what you are getting at, if liquidated damages were assessed then where would that money go? Would each party get a third of it? Or would it all go back to the County, since it's the County's contract. Commissioner Mourdock: It sounds like it was set up based on Graham's excess costs. Somewhere there's a contract that says it goes back to them- Philip Hayes: Right. Commissioner Mourdock: -because they are the one incurring damages. Philip Hayes: Right, but there are at least on that and on change orders there are back ups on those, correct? Commissioner Fanello: Yes. John Stoll: Back up from- Philip Hayes: Yes, from resource- Commissioner Fanello: We're each splitting a third. Philip Hayes: -the resources that the Evansville Industrial Foundation put up. John Stoll: Yeah. Philip Hayes: For two thirds of that? John Stoll: Right. Philip Hayes: Okay. Commissioner Fanello: So, to round it off we have approximately $454,000 in Economic Development, and $554,000 in Infrastructure. So, as long as you don't think anything immediately is coming out of Infrastructure and Drainage- Commissioner Mourdock: Plus you said the other hundred and- John Stoll: $176,000- Commissioner Fanello: $176,000. Philip Hayes: $176,000, that's correct. John Stoll: Right now I think the only pending projects we've got out of either account are the sanitary sewer on 57 and Boonville-New Harmony and there's a small amount remaining to be paid on the original Vanderburgh Industrial Park Project for the streets and sanitary sewers. I believe that was less than $20,000, and I believe we've probably got less than $10,000 left to pay on the one. So, we should have enough money to cover it. Commissioner Fanello: So, I make a motion to award the bid. Commissioner Mourdock: Second. President Mosby: So ordered. John Stoll: The next item I've got is a letter to Environmental Management Corporation in regard to the 57 and Boonville-New Harmony Road sewer. This is a requirement of the Sewer Department for acceptance of sewers. Basically, they have the owner/developer of a project submit a letter saying that they would be responsible for repairs to any deficiencies found in the first year of the project. Also, that we would be responsible for adjusting any castings to grade for that same one year period. In order for them to accept the sewer we have to submit this letter, so I've prepared this letter for the Commissioners signatures that basically say that we would take care of those items for the first year, and that the value of the project was $52,626.50. Commissioner Fanello: So moved. Do we need a motion on that? Commissioner Mourdock: It goes without saying, but I just want to have it on the record, John, everything here that's been done, has been done to our County Highway standards? We're not accepting anything that is not to our present standard? John Stoll: It's in accordance with the plans for the sewer. Really the Highway standards don't come into play- Commissioner Mourdock: They don't? John Stoll: -because it's...it doesn't even cross the road for that matter- Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. John Stoll: -It was constructed in accordance with Three I Engineering's plans, and ultimately the Sewer Department has prepared a punch list, and one of the punch list items was a submittal of this letter, but they just had some minor repairs needed. So, it appears that it was constructed according to their standards. So, it's almost ready for acceptance. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, with the motion I will make a second. President Mosby: So ordered. John Stoll: Next I've got a change order for the Roesner Road Culvert Replacement. This is contract VC01-06-03. The change order is for an increase of $600.65. There were under runs and over runs on numerous items, but the primary increases were due to rip rap, gabions, and adjustments to the beams. The under runs were due to under running asphalt, some of the stone, and the bituminous membrane that was placed before the paving was done. It's recommended this be approved. Commissioner Fanello: So ordered. Or so moved. Commissioner Mourdock: I didn't know what to say after so ordered. Second. President Mosby: So ordered. John Stoll: Next I've got a travel request for that meeting that Rose spoke about awhile ago. This is for this Thursday up at, for travel up to Vincennes. I was at a seminar last week, so that is why it wasn't on the Consent Agenda. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the Consent Item and request that you go with a lean and hungry look in your eye and express our concerns. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: So ordered. Do we have any money? Commissioner Fanello: Council (inaudible) approved. President Mosby: I didn't know if we had any money for it or not. John Stoll: I was going to say with that one there won't really be any costs. It will just be driving a County car- President Mosby: Well I seen that $0 cost on it. It's probably the cheapest I'll ever see. John Stoll: The next item I've got is a request for street plan approval for Section E of Cross Pointe Subdivision. This would be the connection of Indiana Street between the backside of Kohl's Department store, which is here, and the current dead end with Indiana Street by Outback Steakhouse, which is here. They are going to come in and put the two 90 degree turns in it, connect up the back of this parking lot to the existing County accepted road. Because it has a 90 degree turn, we have requested they put in the large arrow, rectangular arrow, warning signs to let the traffic know that it is an abrupt change. Also we are going to have them stripe that as well. So, other than that we did get a copy of the agreement that allows the connection of this road to this private property that is owned by Gershman Brown where Kohl's sits. So, everything appears to be in order and it's recommended that the plans be approved. Commissioner Mourdock: Is there a plan for Gershman Brown to do something up here? Is this the easement we're getting? John Stoll: That's the access drive in their parking lot that's on the south side of Kohl's that runs out to their main access off the Lloyd Expressway. This, you may remember, Richard, is where the old rock road used to be that INDOT constructed that made a 90 degree turn and just went out into this field. When that easement was abandoned they set up this covenant that would allow these people access through this, and it in turn allows the street to be connected up to that point. Commissioner Mourdock: Why is the jog in the street? Why aren't we just doing this? John Stoll: The existing buildings are all along here- Commissioner Mourdock: Ah. John Stoll: -You've got Kohl's and Pet Smart and Circuit City, so that all prevents the road from going straight through. So, that's really the only option available as far as getting the street to connect. Commissioner Mourdock: That's the classic sign of a bad plan. (Inaudible) street like that coming through. Based on the Engineer's recommendation, I will move we approve the plan for that Cross Pointe, Section E. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered. John Stoll: Next I wanted to let you know that Ralph Kissinger and I met with representatives of Pioneer Rail Corp a week ago Friday in regard to the railroad crossings on Mill Road, St. Joe Avenue and Boonville-New Harmony Road. The representatives from Pioneer Railroad are supposed to get us some cost estimates on what it would take to put concrete crossings in on those three railroad crossings. They are asking for the County to assist in paying for that. So, whenever we get some firm costs, I'll bring that back to you. They were estimating that the concrete crossing would cost around $15,000 per crossing, and that was one of the costs that they had asked the County to be responsible for. They were saying that that line is not a big revenue producer, so they didn't have the funds to pay for that work. While it's not good for the County to have to pay for that, I don't think we'll ever get those crossings upgraded if we don't pay for it. So, we are kind of in a no win situation, but once we get some more data from the railroad I'll bring that back or Ralph can and we'll see what the County can or can't do on those. The last item I've got is in regard to the O'Day Discovery Lodge site grading project. There have been several areas of erosion that have not been able to be stabilized as of yet. The grass basically hasn't grown fast enough or well enough to prevent the erosion. When Steve Craig and Blankenberger Brothers and I were walking, checking the site a couple of weeks ago we had proposed putting sod in several areas. Blankenberger submitted a price of $4.40 a square yard for sod and they estimated we would need about 716 square yards for a total cost of $3,150.40. I spoke with Steve Craig and he said there is money in the account to cover this sod, and with your approval we'll go ahead and have Blankenberger start placing the sod in the eroded areas and then bring a change order back at a later date once all the final quantities are known. Commissioner Fanello: You did say at the O'Day Discovery Lodge site? John Stoll: Yes. Commissioner Mourdock: Have you looked at seeding it? I mean now is the classic time of year to do the seeding. John Stoll: It's been seeded. One of the problems is the geese go out there and tear up everything. Short of getting sod in there and get it stable quick where they can't come in and tear it all up, we are kind of running out of options. Commissioner Mourdock: Too bad geese are not an endangered species. I'll move pursuant to the County Engineer's recommendation that we go ahead with the sod. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered. John Stoll: That's all I have unless you have any questions. Commissioner Mourdock: I have two things, John. First let me pass a letter on to you that we circulated around here and maybe you can get back to us with something on this. It's on Koressel Road. Secondly, the road...and I, it's on the west side where Backyard Burgers is, goes to the south, I've got a blank. John Stoll: Where it comes off Red Bank? That frontage road? Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, and it makes a 90 degree bend. John Stoll: Uh-huh. Commissioner Mourdock: Why do we have the 90 degree bend in there? Was that a property line issue? That's my recollection. John Stoll: That's one of those old roads that INDOT constructs where they make it go outside the right-of-way fence, make it a quick 90 and leave it at that. Kind of like what we had out if front of Builder's Square and out in front of the old Wal-Mart and what they were proposing out along 62. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. John Stoll: So, that was the way that road was originally set up and then it was developed off of that access. Commissioner Mourdock: Does that corner currently meet our normal highway standards? Or is the bend itself within the state right-of-way ? John Stoll: Portions of it are in the state and the city. That, what's not in the state right-of-way is the City's at that point. Commissioner Mourdock: Ah, okay. That's a good answer. John Stoll: I can't remember the exact distance, but a certain number of feet off the Lloyd is the state's responsibility. Then there is a small segment that is the County's, then everything else is in the City's. Everything on the east side of Red Bank is the City's at that point. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. So, going back to what our County standard is, you don't know if that would apply out there on that City spot then I presume? John Stoll: No, I don't. Commissioner Mourdock: No, you don't know, or no it does not apply? John Stoll: I don't know. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. John Stoll: I don't know what the pavement sections are or anything like that. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. John Stoll: Geometrically it doesn't work very well. That was one of the reasons why when Gene Hahn was doing his development INDOT was proposing the raised concrete median out there, which ended up in a lawsuit- Commissioner Mourdock: Right. John Stoll: -and the median was dropped as a result of the lawsuit. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, that's what I need to know. John Stoll: Okay. President Mosby: Any other questions? Thank you, John. John Stoll: Thanks.
President Mosby: County Highway. You
have reports. Ralph is on vacation and Mark is off sick, so.
President Mosby: County Attorney. Philip Hayes: There is a matter on your Consent Items which is the County Assessor's proposed agreement with Paul Hatfield and Property Tax Assessment Board of Appeals. I've had an opportunity to review the contract and discuss some of the particulars of it with Mr. Hatfield. The contract is one which is legally approvable based on the boards decision to conduct it's consultation advisory functions of reassessment in house rather than hire outside consultants. I was able to determine with Mr. Hatfield that the costs on that for the County is going to be about 40 cents per land only parcel compared with neighboring counties who have hired outside consulting firms and their break downs just roughly for the record are approximately $128, excuse me, $1.28 per land only parcel for Pike. Same for Posey. In Martin County $1.22. Green County $1.22. Dubouis 74 cents. Perry County $1.10. There was a quote solicited from one of the firms that's engaged in this, Southern Indiana Appraisal Consultants, and there charge would have been approximately $1.50 per parcel, so based on that and I asked just for your information that Mr. Hatfield send along his substantial resume. He has substantial experience as you all know, so the contract is one which, I think, is probably a good purchase for the County. Commissioner Mourdock: Motion to approve. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: So ordered. Philip Hayes: That's all the report
I have this evening.
President Mosby: Superintendent of Buildings. Of the County Building. Tammy McKinney: Let's see, I have two travel requests that were in the packets, I believe it was last week, and I put them back in the signature file since we're getting closer to having money for our Travel budget. One was for Voters Registration, the other was for County Clerk's. So, they will be back in the signature file for signature. Philip Hayes: (Inaudible. Mike not on.) Tammy McKinney: For, are you talking Rick Barter? Philip Hayes: Yeah. Tammy McKinney: I turned that in. I don't know. Commissioner Fanello: Yeah, it's been turned in, because I signed it last week. Tammy McKinney: Then I have a service for request from the Auditor's Department. Suzanne, I don't know if you want to explain this one to the Commissioners. This just came up this afternoon. Suzanne Crouch: We just found out today. We may not need the phone line. It is to transfer information into and to get support on the payroll system. We talked with ACS and they are trying to see if the T-1 line is capable of doing that, but we wanted to go ahead and get a phone line approval in case it isn't and we need to go that route. So that is the purpose of that request. Commissioner Fanello: Is that just for a certain period of time that that would be? Suzanne Crouch: That would be for the two month period when we are doing the implementation. ACS, if the phone line is dropped in, they may have a need for an additional phone line somewhere else, I don't know if that's the case. Hopefully, we won't need it, but we wanted to go ahead and have it in case we do. Tammy McKinney: Besides those I don't have anything. President Mosby: Okay.
President Mosby: Burdette Park. Steve Craig: Steve Craig, Manager of Burdette. As you know, our Summer season concluded this week with the Bristol Myers picnic. That was our last large company picnic. We had 22 company or church picnics out at our pavilion this year, which is about two more than normal. One thing that I wanted to address, I guess, I had talked to Dave about it but we had got $50,000 appropriated from the Council to do our ADA bathrooms again this year, and I know that this is going to be the third year in a row that Environmental Management Corp. is going to charge us $1,500 to tap into our own restrooms to, I mean, we already have restrooms there and when we remodel them they charge us a $1,500 tap in fee to our own lines and I don't...now they've done it two years in a row and I was getting ready to get a set of plans to do 18's bathroom, and I'm going to be right back where we were last year. President Mosby: Well, now hold it. You're redoing 18? Steve Craig: Yeah, the bathrooms in it. President Mosby: Okay, now if there is already restrooms there we shouldn't have to pay the tap. Steve Craig: We redid Bishea Building's and they had restrooms- President Mosby: Well, I know and they are saying they refunded that, now- Steve Craig: We never received it. President Mosby: Well, I was going to say you were supposed to get back with me on that info, but they are saying they refunded that. The reason they are saying that they charged on the restrooms at, help me with the- Steve Craig: Number 13. President Mosby: -yeah, is because we never had restrooms there before, and they considered that a new facility. Now we have restrooms in 18, so that should not be a new facility. Steve Craig: Okay, well 13's restrooms were just down the hill- President Mosby: Well, they don't count that. They are saying that now that they are attached to the building and they are a specific part of the building, same as Bishea and 18, that's where this comes in, so. Steve Craig: Okay. President Mosby: But they said they refunded Bishea. We need to, if you are saying you didn't get it and they are saying they refunded it, we need to find out where it's at. Steve Craig: Yeah, because I had heard- President Mosby: Suzanne is going to have to give us some kind of verification. President Mosby: I'd even checked with Lichtenberger who had done the construction work on it and they said that they did not pay the tap in fee, which we did, and they did not get it refunded to them, so I did check to see if they sent it to, you know, the contractor who sometimes pays the fee as part of the bid. President Mosby: Then we need to find out, yeah, check with Norb Woolley, because I talked with Norb about this down at the Water and Sewer Utility, and we should have not paid on Bishea. Steve Craig: Okay. President Mosby: So, they are saying they refunded. Philip Hayes: Check Lichtenberger's sub. The sub who installed, who did the plumbing work, who did the hook up. Steve Craig: Okay. Yeah, I don't know if he did it or not. Philip Hayes: Check with the sub-contractor. President Mosby: My other conversation with Norb is that we shouldn't be paying period anyhow. I mean, we own the line, the way I understand it in Burdette Park. Then there is a big dump station- Steve Craig: Yes. President Mosby: -it's a sewer lift station, yeah, there's a lift station sitting right there on our ground. I told him we could charge him a lease for that, if they want to continue the charges. Commissioner Mourdock: How did he respond to that? Did you start negotiating? President Mosby: No. They said, I forget what it was his exact- Commissioner Mourdock: He probably said we've never done it that way before. President Mosby: No, his exact answer was, I forget what it is, they could maintain from where, anyhow I told him you still have to cross the gate and come into our property, somehow, someway. They weren't real responsive to that when I said that. Steve Craig: Yeah, because the County- Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, because of the hammering and sand, right? President Mosby: Well, they were going to have to cut an entrance gate off of Nurrenbern Road into there (Tape flipped to other side). Steve Craig: The County had ran the line from the City limit on Red Bank Road out to Burdette to that lift station so that Burdette would have it. We used to have our own system out there where it, I don't know what you would call it, it used to grind it up and send it on it's way, but, you know, that was the County that paid for that to have it run all the way to Burdette. So- President Mosby: Well, if they decide they are going to charge you, let me know. Steve Craig: Okay, because two years in a row, I mean- President Mosby: Well, the conversation I've had with them is that we don't have to pay. Steve Craig: Okay. President Mosby: So, if they tell you we are going to have to pay then let me know. Steve Craig: They will stop the job like they did the last two years right in the middle of it and tell me, you know, until I get a check down there and pay them that they can't continue, because we don't have the permits. President Mosby: That's the County government working together. Steve Craig: That's right. President Mosby: God. Steve Craig: Other than that and my worksheets, by probably the first week of October I'm going to try and have a conclusive report on what we did this Summer at the aquatic center and that. Miniature golf will be open until October 1st, but if you have any questions. President Mosby: I don't. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of all the Department Head Reports including Soil and Water and the Ozone Officer. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second. So ordered.
Commissioner Fanello: I'll move approval of the Consent Items, amending them with the two travel requests and the request for phone line from the Auditor. Commissioner Mourdock: Second. President Mosby: I have a motion and
a second. So ordered.
President Mosby: New Business? Commissioner Fanello: You skipped a couple things there. President Mosby: Oh, I did. Scheduled meetings. Commissioner Mourdock: I just, Tammy, what did you tell me our square footage or however we deem our meeting on using the space would be the 24th? Tammy McKinney: The space allocation meeting is the 24th. Commissioner Mourdock: At 4:00? Or 5:00? Tammy McKinney: I believe it's 5:30. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, 5:30. President Mosby: September 24th, 5:30? Tammy McKinney: Yes. Commissioner Fanello: Then there is a supposed to be a jail overcrowding meeting this Thursday at 4:00, but all the Judges are going to be at a conference, so do you want to reschedule that for the following week? That meeting. Eric Williams: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Whatever you desire. Commissioner Fanello: Why don't you move it. Tammy McKinney: Well, do you want me...okay. Commissioner Fanello: Why don't we just move it to the following Thursday. Tammy McKinney: Okay. President Mosby: So, what's that date? Commissioner Fanello: What's this Thursday? President Mosby: September- Commissioner Fanello: It would be the 20th. President Mosby: Okay, September 20th. Commissioner Fanello: At 4:00 in Room 318. Tammy McKinney: Well, if the room changes I'll let you know. I'll have to check with the- Commissioner Fanello: Okay. President Mosby: Okay. Any other scheduled
meetings?
President Mosby: Old Business?
President Mosby: New Business? Commissioner Mourdock: I have one item of New Business that kind of goes nicely with the phrase you used a moment ago, David, as far as the City and County working together. I've had a couple of conversations, one face to face and one over the phone with the Hamiltons out at Hamilton Golf Course. As I'm sure you know, we lease that property to them to operate as a golf course. The discussion given the interest within the city as far as doing some soccer fields, I guess, the overall dynamic to this is in 2008 the present lease with the Hamiltons will expire. They would like to make some improvements to the course, but obviously the payback for those is fairly lengthy and they are hesitant to do anything until that lease is renewed or somehow they have some guarantee that they would get the money back for the improvements. The discussion I had with them was an interesting one given that ,as they reported to me, the number of people playing golf today is actually a decreasing number. Obviously, there are more golf courses out there in this area than we've had in, I don't know, I guess, ever had. So, they've seen less play. They would be interested in perhaps, and we can, there's nothing written in stone here at all, but they would be interested in either forfeiting part of the land that they presently lease from us to the County so that soccer fields could be made. That ground then could be leased from the County to the City, or I know you've had the interest in the boat docks before, some kind of swap or some sort of deal that could be worked out there. President Mosby: No. Let me correct that there, because I want to put this on the record. Commissioner Mourdock: Sure, go ahead. President Mosby: The boat docks, I was approached to see if the County would be interested in running the boat docks. With all the liability right now, I think there is about four lawsuits and a bankruptcy involved in them two boat ramps. I in no way shape or form ever wanted the County to purchase them because they could be a burden. Then I was approached and said we'll trade you the two boat docks for the golf course. I thought that was very generous on the City's part, but- Commissioner Mourdock: Hamilton Golf Course? President Mosby: -yeah, they wanted to trade for the red and white. No, I take that back, they wanted to trade, I think, for just the red course. Commissioner Mourdock: Is that the one furthest to the east? President Mosby: Yeah. Along the highway to do I think some programs, but I said no. I said if you had ten boat ramps you couldn't trade me. Commissioner Mourdock: Fair enough, and I don't disagree with that. I've never been crazy about (Inaudible. Talking over each other.) President Mosby: I was just trying to bail them out of a bad situation that they can't take care of. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. President Mosby: I mean, I was down at Dogtown again this week and it's pitiful. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. President Mosby: Too many people think the County runs it. I have been called at home saying your boat ramp is in sad shape, and I'm trying to explain, you know, even though they are in the County- Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. President Mosby: -they belong to the City. Commissioner Mourdock: I, well, let's take the word boat ramp out of the rest of this conversation. President Mosby: Let's do. Commissioner Mourdock: It seems to me it's still an interesting proposition where City and County could work together. That land is certainly something that putting a soccer field on could be at best a temporary land use much as a golf course is. Soccer may be a bit of a fad as golf is, but it might still give us a chance to do something out there to promote the area and the tourism that I know the Mayor is hoping to do for the City and the whole area. So, I put that before you. There is obviously a lot of negotiating that would need to be done. Hamilton might have an interest in operating concessions if we wanted them to do that, or if we wanted the Burdette Park Board somehow to get involved in running concessions. There is any number of things we could do, but the idea of using that land for soccer fields I find is something that is worthy of further discussion, and I'll put it before the two of you to comment as you would like. President Mosby: My initial comments, I have and I don't know where the counselor is, I know we received the thing from, I guess, Hamilton's on- Commissioner Mourdock: The lease? President Mosby: -the lease, and I know they are wanting more time on the lease and they are agreeing to put in "x" amount of dollars, and I had looked at that and then I had asked the counselor to get back with me on exactly what they are paying us right now and what that would mean to us. Long term I will just tell you, I guess I'll go ahead and say it, it would be my hope that the County would take that facility back when it's lease is up. I would hope that they would possibly put it under the Burdette Park Board and run it themselves. The City has two golf courses. In my 13 years tenure on the City Council were very profitable. We were able to go in and do millions of dollars worth of work to Helfrich and that all came out of Golf Non-Reverting, except for a small portion of this last drainage deal that we did on the back nine. We were successfully able to build a new clubhouse at Fendrich. I mean, this has all been done with Golf Non-Reverting. I'm going- Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. President Mosby: - to probably say that golf is on a decline, I don't...I challenge them to try and get on a golf course somewhere. Commissioner Mourdock: Well, that's a national statistic, so. President Mosby: Well, it just don't hold true for Evansville. Commissioner Mourdock: Well, with the thought that you just expressed as far as at some point the County taking that back, does that preclude the use of 100% of that property now? In other words, and I'm....please do not misinterpret this, the Hamilton's have not said what I am about to say to you. If that is your long term plan, and if, and if the Hamilton's today said, well, it would be in our best interest even in the short term until the year 2008 to take some of this land out of our lease, is it something that you would want to consider? President Mosby: I mean, I wouldn't want to give up nine holes of a golf course. Commissioner Mourdock: That's not the question for you, that's the question for them. I'm saying if they want to do that, is that something that you would consider the County wanting to do with the soccer fields? President Mosby: I'm missing your question here. I mean, you're saying if they wanted to take the land. Commissioner Mourdock: No, if they wanted to give us back land that we presently lease to them. This is a big if- President Mosby: Okay. Commissioner Mourdock: -just hypothetical. If they said to us we've got, what do they have out there 27 holes? President Mosby: No, they've got 36. They got nine, nine and 18. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. What if they said to us, we don't want to operate 36 holes anymore. We would be willing to write out of our current lease that runs until 2008, we could write out today 50 acres of that. Would you be interested in taking back that land to do the soccer fields? President Mosby: I don't...if you wrote out 50 acres that would probably be one nine hole golf course. Commissioner Mourdock: Then again, that's not your problem. That's their problem. They're the ones operating a golf course. President Mosby: Well, I understand that but if they wanted to write out 50 acres, I mean, what I'm actually saying is they are probably writing out nine holes of the red course, and I cannot go out and run nine holes of the red course- Commissioner Mourdock: I'm not asking you to. I'm just talking about the land. Whatever land they give us- President Mosby: Well, I don't want it to sit there and deteriorate. Commissioner Mourdock: No, I don't either. I want to put a soccer field there. President Mosby: Oh, well, no I'm not going to do that. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, so that's the answer is you are not interested. President Mosby: Because you would be tearing up half a golf course. The red course and the white course make one 18 hole golf course out there. What you are saying is let's tear up half of a golf course and keep the other half , and, no that would not make any sense. Commissioner Mourdock: Well, I don't know that either one of us can sit here and say what makes sense as a golf course. President Mosby: I mean, I know what golf, I mean, I golf and I know Hamilton's on weekends uses the 18 hole blue course to public play. Hamilton's is the only golf course in the City where you can actually get a shot gun start on Saturday or Sunday, because they have that option with a nine hole white and a nine hole red to give you...I mean, they have scrambles out there 30 and 35 portions every weekend. They are the only golf course that can afford to do that because nobody else can shut down their whole golf course. So, that red and white golf course is worth a fortune. There was a scramble scheduled out there for 7:00 yesterday morning. Of course, it got cancelled due to the rain, but you can't do it at Fendrich. You can't do it at Helfrich, I mean, nobody else has got that option. They have got 36 holes. I mean, I am playing in two scrambles out there in the next couple of weekends. If you took out nine holes of a golf course, then you would have nine holes left and who wants to play a nine hole scramble. Commissioner Mourdock: Well, I don't know. That's where I'm not an expert in the business, and I'm simply saying- President Mosby: Tammy, you're a golfer, jump in here. Commissioner Mourdock: What they are telling, I don't, I'm not in that business, they need to have that business work however is profitable for them and that's in the County's best interest. I think you would agree to that. President Mosby: Say that again. Commissioner Mourdock: What is in the Hamilton's best interest in operating that course financially, is ultimately in the County's best interest. Well, let me draw it the other way, I don't think it would be in our interest if they went broke and I'm not suggesting that that is about to happen, okay. President Mosby: Well, no I don't think that's in our best interest either. Commissioner Mourdock: Thank you. Okay. So, I'm simply saying if there was some deal that would work for them that is in their better financial interest and in the County's better financial interest would you want to take a look at it? I hear you say, and let me just restate it, I don't think you are interested in soccer fields there at any way. President Mosby: I'm interested in taking the golf course back. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. President Mosby: Bottom line. Commissioner Mourdock: Catherine, do you have anything to add to that. Commissioner Fanello: No, not right now because I just don't know enough about it to comment, so. Commissioner Mourdock: Fair enough. Commissioner Fanello: I'd rather wait. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. President Mosby: Any other comments or questions? I mean, that's the only answer I can really give you now. Commissioner Mourdock: That's fine. You know- President Mosby: I personally think the County is losing a lot of money out there. I don't think we are getting enough off- Commissioner Mourdock: Maybe it's because they can afford to put the scrambles out there all the time. Maybe because it's the lowest cost course out there is because they have all the scrambles you are referring to which is , again, they have all those scrambles because it's a low cost course, so. President Mosby: We should be profiting on that. I mean, the City courses, I mean, they hire a pro. The pro runs it, the City still owns it. The City gets all the greens fees. The City also now gets a portion on the pros golf cart fees. They get a portion on the concessions. Commissioner Mourdock: Let me leave it at this and take the soccer fields out of it for a moment, and I have no special venue here at all, but it is my sense in talking to the Hamilton's that given what they would like to do to make that course profitable, given what they feel needs to be done to make that course profitable. I don't think we have to wait until 2008 to talk to them about something, whatever it is. Because I think they would like to have some resolution prior to then. Whatever it is. President Mosby: I would be willing to meet with them. I would be more than willing to go out and meet with them. If they want to do something before then, that's fine. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. President Mosby: Any other New Business? Commissioner Fanello: I have one thing. I would like the...first of all I have no idea how to accomplish this, but start at the beginning, I think at the beginning of the year I said that, you know, we wanted to do a new Data Board Ordinance and the Mayor and I have come up with one. Currently right now I believe that the current Data Board is probably not the best forum for hearing computer problems. That's in my opinion that our computer issues are way out of control and we have a lot of office holders, department heads going in a million different directions and things aren't getting communicated very well. It's my wish that we dissolve the current Data Board and as the new year approaches the new ordinance would, hopefully, take effect that the Mayor and I have written, but I think we have way too many things out of control right now and ACS needs some direction. They are being pulled in 50 million different directions, and they need to report to one person and I think it's time the Commissioners take a more active role in the computer situation around here, because we are spending an exorbitant amount of money, and I just probably need counselor's advice on what to do. I would like to dissolve the current Data Board as it now stands. President Mosby: I guess my question, I mean is that a motion right now? Commissioner Fanello: If, I don't know if I can make that motion. I would like to make that motion. If there is something- Commissioner Mourdock: Um-- President Mosby: I mean, I guess-- Commissioner Fanello: If there is something formal that needs to be done. I would- President Mosby: My question would be what would happen if we dissolved the Data Board right now? Commissioner Fanello: Well, what would happen is ACS would communicate with the Commissioners. Which we sign the contracts, so in essence we are the contract administrator for the Computer Service Department and we do pay out all the money. So, I am the person who sat on the Data Board so I would be more than happy to take that role in communicating with Computer Services, but they would report everything to us and funnel all the information through us. They would be submitting a weekly report along with all the other departments to let us know what is going on. We would take a more active role until the end of the year to oversee what's happening in Computer Services. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Two comments. Intent I recognize is a good one here. I think there is something different we can do. I'm not quite sure what that is. Point two as far as formally doing a motion or something, I believe, and I may be wrong but I believe the Data Board is established by an ordinance. If it is there is an actual process we have to go through- Commissioner Fanello: That was my question. Commissioner Mourdock: -so it would be premature to do a motion. As you said to the last one, I'll use your answer, I don't know enough about it fully at this point to offer a better option, but I do recognize what your intention is. Commissioner Fanello: Let me just say that the current Data Board there is no specific criteria for who sits on that board and who is a voting member. So, it's really a free for all when you get in there to the meetings. It's,luckily enough we've had a very good chairman this year, and that's Deputy Eric Williams. It's not accomplishing anything, and we have a lot of hostility, I would say, going on. That may be a little bit strong of a word between departments and Computer Services. They are worn very thin, so I think we need to take the reins and take it under control because it's kind of gotten a little haywire. Commissioner Mourdock: As David just said, Eric was elected chairman because he has a gun. Commissioner Fanello: Yeah. Eric Williams: (Inaudible. Not at mike.) Commissioner Mourdock: Do you have an opinion, Eric? Do you have anything- President Mosby: I was going to say- Commissioner Fanello: Eric and I have spent a lot of time communicating about this issue and he's even reviewed the new Data Board Ordinance for, and given me his comments, so. Eric Williams: Eric Williams, Deputy Sheriff, Data Board Chairman this year. I am not inherently opposed to what Catherine proposes. My concern is that the Data Board is a group that has been involved and tried to do the right thing. When I became chairman, one of the things that we set out was to at least get a focus and direction for the Data Board. We wanted to know what our role, scope and authority was? Where did the Commission and the Mayor see us fitting into the bigger picture or data and computers within the City and County? What exactly is it you wanted us to accomplish? One of the things discussed early on in the year was updating of the Data Board and a creation of something new. My hope is that no matter what happens, is that it is done in an organized fashion. That we get some results. That everybody knows what the ground rules are. Everybody knows what the rules that everybody has to play by are, and that everybody can get things moving along. My concern on your part, just sitting where I sit, and I know the number of phone calls and requests and comments that I get, is that communication can take place, because you do have a City/County operation that is very, very tightly interwoven, and decisions have to be made that affect both City and County, and the decision you make with drastically affect them. You know, the role we saw for the Data Board at some point in the future was to be that bridge. If nothing other than to be an organized recommendation to both City and County government. You know, how we get there, you know, if abandoning the current Data Board and coming up with something new is how we get there, it really doesn't matter to me. I just know that I've been, I've been involved with the Data Board for about eight or nine years now and I've seen it be a rubber stamp and a lot of wheel spinning and not a lot of effective work being done. If this is a road to get to that then that is, you know, I think, I think it's great. I don't know though. President Mosby: I don't know. I mean, I can't say as I'm very knowledgeable at this part, so. Eric Williams: I would also add that I know that several of us on the Data Board, the vice chairman is Auditor Crouch and then we have spent some time here very recently working on projects trying to make sure that we can be effective, but it's only our group doing that. We still have no true understanding of what our scope and authority is, and I think it's going to be critical that the Data Board be in place or some, it's replacement or system amongst yourselves so that we can start the process of deciding what the future of Computer Services is. To me that is the most critical issue facing us know is are we going to keep ACS on board? Are we going to re-bid their contract? Are we going to re-negotiate with them, or are we going to try to move to do it in house? All those are options and I think that is the biggest, most pressing issue that we face in the area of communications and data. Commissioner Fanello: During the time that the present Data Board would be disbanded I would want to form some committee for us, and we talked about that, working on an RFP or whatever we decide to do next year, I mean, I am in favor of re-bidding Computer Services and also looking at what it would cost for us to do it in house for comparison purposes. Commissioner Mourdock: I'm not against either of those things. Is the timing with the SCT/ACS contract such that it can be bid? Commissioner Fanello: Their contract doesn't expire until next June. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah- Commissioner Fanello: So we do have time. Commissioner Mourdock: -so it's a little ways off then. Eric Williams: Our work is cut out for us- Commissioner Fanello: Uh-huh. Eric Williams: -that is a huge contract- Commissioner Mourdock: Right. Eric Williams: -because one of the problems that I think you are going to face is right now you have a pool of users that rely on ACS that have, what I consider to be, very unrealistic expectations of what their services are to be. It's going to take a lot of tough decision making to narrow down to a contract that a vendor would even agree to bid on, you know, for a reasonable amount of money. If you look at what SCT and ACS, and I'm not their cheerleader in any way shape or form, but if you look at the situations they've been placed in, I think they have done a reasonable job in trying to meet all the various non-specific demands that have been placed on them without a true contract that is readable. I mean, if you try to read the contracts that are there now, there are so many cross references that negate each other in it, it's not worth the paper it is written on, quite frankly. Commissioner Fanello: What else. I was just going to say whatever our attorney thinks would be the best route. Philip Hayes: Well, in order to, in order to address the, the issue of dissolution of the Data Board, it is by ordinance, and it would be necessary to repeal it. So, repeal of an ordinance can be put together and introduced in the usual manner as an ordinance. That can be the vehicle for your debate. Commissioner Mourdock: It would have to go both ways. The City would have to do the same thing. Philip Hayes: The City in the same fashion. My understanding is that it is a joint- President Mosby: (Inaudible.) Philip Hayes: We have corresponded. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah. Commissioner Fanello: I'll talk with the Mayor further, but he and I have worked quite a bit on this new ordinance, and have talked quite a bit about our current computer situation and I know he has a lot of the same feelings that I do. How he feels about totally disbanding the board a this time, I don't know, but I can sure check that out. Commissioner Mourdock: This is one of those services that I...you could have a holy choir of angels doing it and they would still get constant criticism if they were the vendor, because there are so many different users here. Somebody is always going to be getting beat up on this thing verbally, so, again, I'm not standing here in support of the Data Board, I'm not ready to say let's have the thing melt down. We just need to know what the best option is. I think the three choices Eric outlined are we either re-do the thing with ACS under some better format, bid it to someone else, or hire our own person, or perhaps groups of people. Eric Williams: I will just add in there that I think realistically in looking at a lot of other areas there's going...the solution for us to look at is going to be a hybrid of what you just described. I think there is some, some room in there to have some in house personnel that work with the contracted vendor. What form that takes, but I think that truly will be the ultimate route that we would need to go. Commissioner Mourdock: That's what's scary, because by definition a hybrid always has some genetic flaw. Eric Williams: Yes. Commissioner Fanello: I'll confirm with the Mayor this week again and talk to him and then let you know or get back with you on Monday. President Mosby: Any other New Business? Commissioner Mourdock: Motion to adjourn. Commissioner Fanello: Second. President Mosby: So ordered. The meeting was adjourned at 7:50
p.m.
CONSENT ITEMS: Employment Changes:
Requests for Service:
Commissioners:
Auditor:
County Clerk:
County Assessor:
Sheriff:
Those in Attendance:
APPROVAL:
______________________________
______________________________
Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn
Grayson.
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