VANDERBURGH COUNTY

BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS

SPACE ALLOCATION MEETING

September 8, 2003


The Vanderburgh County Board of Commissioners met in special session this 8th day of September, 2003 at 5:04 p.m. in Room 307 of the Civic Center Complex with President David Mosby presiding.


President Mosby: Call to order space allocation meeting of Board of Commissioners of Vanderburgh County for September 8, 2003. I guess, we could go over the meeting that–


David Rector: Last week.


President Mosby: –yeah, we had last week, which was attended by three of the judges, Councilman Winnecke, who’s Finance Chairman, myself, David Rector–


David Rector: Sheriff Ellsworth, Chief Deputy Williams.


President Mosby: Right. It was, you can correct me at any point if I’m wrong. It was discussed that Dave needs about $70,000 to get design and construction documents, so that we can go out to bid on the Health Department area when they move, which I think is about a million and a half dollars.


David Rector: Yes.


President Mosby: Councilman Winnecke said that the Council does not have a million and a half dollars at this time, and we asked him for $70,000 for design, and they didn’t know exactly where they were going to come up with that. He was supposed to get back with us to see how the rest of the Council felt.


David Rector: I think he indicated that perhaps he thought they could come up with the design money, and had asked that I meet with each of the Councilmen individually to explain the whole project to them before we go to the Council as a group asking for that design money.


President Mosby: Did you ever get a meeting set up with them?


David Rector: Bonnie is in the process of trying to set up meetings with all of them.


President Mosby: Okay.


David Rector: I believe Judge Trockman said that if we advised him of when the meetings were, he would try to have another judge there, if he can’t be there.


President Mosby: Right.


David Rector: I think the discussion was, we talked about the million and a half for the Health Department move and juvenile, but not only that then the whole process and project on the old jail goes in the ten to 12 million dollars, 14 million dollars that may be needed, and we discussed the Building Authority could do a bond issue on it. It’s not enough money at the million and a half really to do a bond with all the fees you pay with it. To do the whole project, the Council, Lloyd says that they aren’t going to have that kind of money at any time. So, it goes back how do you fund things, and a bond seems to be appropriate to do that. Now is the time to do it, if they are going to do it. He wants to bring the whole Council on board in that discussion, and, initially, it’s just to get design money going so that we can start demolition in January with the Health Department move, and discuss these other issues, I guess, David, what do you think? October, November is what he was thinking.


President Mosby: Right. Are there any questions?


Commissioner Fanello: Okay, well, if we don’t have any money to renovate the space from the Health Department moving, then why are we letting the Health Department move? And why did the Council approve for the Health Department to move if they can’t renovate the space? Would somebody like to answer me, or tell me the logic in all this?


David Rector: I don’t think he addressed–


President Mosby: There was no answer to that.


David Rector: He didn’t really address that, but was very emphatic, that, I believe they said they had, at that time, what, 800 and some thousand left until the end of the year?


President Mosby: That was before the Council meeting Wednesday too.


David Rector: And that was before that Council meeting, so now it’s down to close to half a million. He just did not address why they approved the relocation of the Health Department when there weren’t funds to renovate for the courts that’s already been approved. The other issue is, even if they don’t renovate, it sits empty and the county then is still liable to pay rent on empty space.


Commissioner Fanello: Well, that is just totally irresponsible and ridiculous for that much space to sit empty down there.


David Rector: Not only that, but you look at the space when the jail moves, and all of this other, you’ve got a lot of space sitting empty then.


President Mosby: Thirty some thousand square feet.


Commissioner Fanello: When we’ve got people cramped in quarters around this Civic Center. I mean, somehow, some resolution has got to come from the Council as to how they want to proceed and plan out the finances of this renovation, plus the moves that need to take place in the Civic Center, plus what’s going to happen with the old jail space whenever the new jail opens. We have got to have a decision from the Council.


David Rector: One thing he asked from me, that I can do, but I may or may not agree with you all, that he wanted a flow chart identifying how these moves are going to take place, when, what the domino affect would be. Well, I can certainly do that based on some assumptions, but you all and the Mayor may not agree. You may say, well, no, I want them to move second, and them to move third. I don’t agree with them moving first. You know, I can do, but I’m not sure of how much benefit it’s going to be for the Council.


Commissioner Fanello: Before we go that far, and all three of us, plus the Mayor and his people spend time putting this together, we need to know what funding is going to be available. So, how do you all propose, give me some feedback, that we get the Council to make a decision.


President Mosby: I think that the only decision that came out of that meeting is the Council don’t have it. I’m going to agree to a bond issue through the Building Authority.


Commissioner Fanello: Commissioner Crouch?


Commissioner Crouch: Did the Council indicate that they were willing to do a bond issue?


President Mosby: That’s why he’s going to meet with all seven Councilmen. To explain to them where we stand in this whole process. Not only is the million and a half needed, you know, the first of the year, in two years, two and a half years when the jail opens, you know, there’s another eight or nine million needed to renovate that over there. I mean, if we don’t have a million and a half next year, we’re not going to have eight or nine million in two years. I mean, the Council just outright said, I think going into Wednesday’s meeting, Bill, they had $800,000 in their cash balance, and I think they allocated about $400,000 of that or better. So, you know, they probably have–


Bill Fluty: 410 left.


President Mosby: They have $410,000 left for the whole year. I mean, it’s hard to get a million and a half out of 410.


Bill Fluty: (Inaudible. Mike not on.) funding issues that will come up before the end of the year that they will have to fund.


President Mosby: Exactly. I mean, it’s like we was telling them, you know, we got patient, moving of patients that we’re going to be sending a big bill over there again. I mean, that has to be paid. So, we’re going to have zero dollars by the end of the year.


David Rector: I think Lloyd acknowledged that a bond issue–


President Mosby: Lloyd Winnecke agreed to that.


David Rector: –was probably the only way to do it. You know, I think his question was how do you pay for it then?


President Mosby: Councilman Winnecke is the one that encouraged him to meet with the other six Councilmen, you know, two at a time or three at a time so he doesn’t have a quorum, but, and the judges have agreed, you know, to meet too. Everybody at the meeting agreed, I mean, that this has to be done, and we’re sitting there with 13,000 square feet at the first of the year, and it’s going to be non-utilized.


Commissioner Fanello: Well, before I sign my name to a lease, which I agree with the Health Department moving, I think they’ve picked an excellent place, before I sign my name to a lease there had better be a plan for that space, because I’m not going to party to an irresponsible decision like that.


David Rector: He did also ask two other things that I think you guys would want too. What is the rent differential going to be, or the space allocation if the plan took place as you said? I can figure that on a percentage basis, assuming you all agree, and the Mayor agrees that we occupy these spaces as such. He also asked where can the Building Authority help out with the project. Obviously, there’s some areas, due to maintenance, that we would have to replace some carpeting and do some painting. We would be obligated to do that. Beyond that, in the end of 2005 we’re going to have three to four million dollars coming back in from the initial 1969 bond issues that can go towards this project. We don’t know the exact number yet, but assuming that’s going to come back in to you all, that could be put towards it.


President Mosby: I think right now our hands are tied. I mean, we don’t allocate the dollars, we don’t make the decisions financially of how they are spent. Our hands are tied. I mean, the Council appropriated the 1.4 million for the move for the Health Department, and I even asked Councilman Winnecke, I said, you know, can we just at least get the $70,000 in place so that he can get, you know, a design and some construction documents, and then whichever way we decide to move, you know, that we had that in place. I think that’s what we’re, Councilman Winnecke was going to talk to the other Councilmen, and you’re supposed to meet with them, so.


David Rector: And he seemed open to that possibility.


President Mosby: You know, Eric and Brad had a concern that, you know, when the jail is built, and once we move out there, they immediately have got to have holding cells down here so that when they are bringing prisoners down, you know, they are going to have to hold prisoners, because they are going to bring, you know, more than one down at a time. So, I mean,--


David Rector: That’s an immediate renovation that has to–


President Mosby: –an immediate renovation once the jail opens.


David Rector: I would think that line item, a couple hundred thousand dollars I had budget figured that.


President Mosby: I think that was kind of (Inaudible).


David Rector: We’ve got to do a sally port, we’ve got to redo the area up there for them to us, we have to block it off so that the prisoners can’t then filter on out into the other area. That has to be done immediately.


President Mosby: All this was discussed, and, you know, the need was emphasized of where we’re at.


David Rector: And, I think, Sheriff Ellsworth brought up too the need for additional personnel when security goes in for the courts down on the first floor here where the Health Department is, he’s going to need people to man that. He said, I just, I can’t put in x-ray machines and metal detectors without somebody manning it.


President Mosby: And that’s another expense that’s going to be on-going.


David Rector: Uh-huh.


Commissioner Crouch: Mr. Rector, what is your unappropriated balance? I don’t know if that’s what you call it, or your cash reserves, or your?


David Rector: Depreciation reserves?


Commissioner Crouch: Whatever it is that you have that is at your discretion.


David Rector: Well–


Commissioner Crouch: The Building Authority’s–


David Rector: It’s not at our discretion.


Commissioner Crouch: Well–


David Rector: –it has designated uses that we can use it for. I think it’s about two and a half million for this building. What was it, two years ago or three years ago, the Building Authority spent a little over a million dollars on acquiring the Fink’s Building, tearing that down, and creating a parking lot. That was supposed to be paid back at some time. I think it’s doubtful that may ever happen, but it was supposed to. That was the agreement then. So, we’ve got two and a half million in depreciation reserves, but that, by the lease agreement, can be used only for maintenance, improvements, carpeting, HVAC, painting, those kind of...it can’t be used for renovation, operational expenses, salaries, those kind of things.


Commissioner Crouch: So, would some of that be included in remodeling?


David Rector: That part that I just spoke of, which was carpeting and painting. I’m going to go through and see what areas we would have to be doing carpet replacement anyway, and we’ll fund that portion of it. The way I understand the lease to read, and talking with our attorney, just because the area is being remodeled and needs new carpet, isn’t a reason to spend that money on carpeting. Carpet replacement is due to wear and tear, normal wear and tear because of age, not because of the desire to renovate an area. But there are a number of areas that are going to need new carpet over the next several years anyway. So, that expense we could fund. That’s not going to be a big dollar item in the whole scope of 12 million dollars anyway.


President Mosby: Any other questions?


David Rector: I think the next step, well, I don’t think, the next step is–


President Mosby: Do you know how–


David Rector: –for me to get all these meetings set up with the Councilmen, and then I’ll report back to you at that time, and we’ll approach them for the design money.


President Mosby: Do you know about when that will take place?


David Rector: I’m hoping it’s going to take place this week and next week.


President Mosby: Okay.


David Rector: As, it’s trying to schedule all of them. I’m trying to make myself as available as I can.


President Mosby: We can set something for like the 22nd or the 29th , maybe like right before, well, the 22nd would be right before the last Wednesday. The Council meets the last Wednesday of the month. It’s at the discretion of the rest of the Commission.


Commissioner Fanello: The 22nd is fine.


President Mosby: Let’s see if, yeah, we’ll tentatively set it for the 22nd. Maybe you’ll have had your meetings by then.


David Rector: I’ll push to have them all in by then.


President Mosby: I was kind of hoping Lloyd might put something on the agenda for the $70,000, which he has to have in by the 15th, I think, so. Isn’t that the deadline?


Commissioner Crouch: Well, you can turn it in. They can modify it, or withdraw it, or whatever later. But he could submit it.


President Mosby: He might be able to talk them into a late–


Commissioner Crouch: Transfer?


President Mosby: Well, not–


Commissioner Fanello: Well, it wouldn’t be a transfer, it would be a late appropriation.


President Mosby: Late appropriation. He might have the power to talk them into it.


Commissioner Fanello: We can’t do a late appropriation. Don’t you have to advertise those?


Bill Fluty: They have to be in by the 10th for an appropriation.


Commissioner Fanello: Yeah.


Bill Fluty: The 10th of this month.


President Mosby: Oh, it’s the 10th?


Bill Fluty: It changes (Inaudible).


President Mosby: Oh, that’s Wednesday.


David Rector: I offered to keep the project on schedule so that space doesn’t sit empty while design is being done, that we could fund it right now as long as I had a consensus that it was going to come back, but legally, once again, I can’t expend those monies for that design for those facilities unless I know it’s going to be repaid. If they can give us a consensus, we can keep it on schedule.


President Mosby: That would be another way of doing it.


Commissioner Crouch: When is the Personnel and Finance meeting?


Commissioner Fanello: The 24th.


President Mosby: The 24th , yeah, I’m guessing it’s the 24th.


Commissioner Crouch: Should we meet prior to that?


President Mosby: Yeah, that’s why I said the 22nd. That would give us two days before their meeting. So, we’ll tentatively have another meeting the 22nd. Hopefully, you will have had your meetings by then with the rest of the Council.


David Rector: Okay.


President Mosby: Maybe we can get an idea.


David Rector: Okay.


President Mosby: If we need to go to the Council meeting that Wednesday, we can.


Commissioner Crouch: 5:00?


President Mosby: Yeah, we’ll just do it at 5:00, before our regular meeting. 5:15 if we don’t really need a lot of time. Any other questions? Any other comments? Seeing none.


Commissioner Fanello: Motion to adjourn.


Commissioner Crouch: Second.


President Mosby: So ordered. Meeting for space allocation is adjourned at 5:17 p.m.


         Those in Attendance:

         David W. Mosby             Catherine Fanello           Suzanne M. Crouch

         Bill Fluty                          Kevin Winternheimer      Madelyn Grayson

         David Rector                   Others Unidentified         Members of Media














VANDERBURGH COUNTY

BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS




                                                                

David W. Mosby, President




                                                                  

Catherine Fanello, Vice President




                                                                   

Suzanne M. Crouch, Member



Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.