VANDERBURGH COUNTY

BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS

SEPTEMBER 8, 2003

The Vanderburgh County Board of Commissioners met in session this 8^th day of September, 2003 at 5:33 p.m. in Room 307 of the Civic Center Complex with President David Mosby presiding.

President Mosby: I would like to call to order Board of Commissioners meeting of Vanderburgh County for September 8, 2003. Introductions are as follows, Tammy McKinney, Superintendent of Buildings; Counselor, Kevin Winternheimer; Commissioner Fanello; myself; Commissioner Crouch; Auditor, Bill Fluty; and Recording Secretary, Madelyn Grayson. If everybody would, please stand and say the Pledge.

(The Pledge of Allegiance was given.)

President Mosby: Do I have a motion to approve the August 25, 2003 Commission minutes?

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered.

President Mosby: Next, bid advertisements, County Attorney permission to advertise Health Department lease.

Kevin Winternheimer: Yes, we need to have a hearing to approve the Health Department lease. The date that I’m suggesting is three weeks from tonight. I have to advertise it ten days before, that gives us plenty of time. Plus, with the latest draft, and I don’t know if that’s been handed out yet, but the latest draft they came back with, I had some questions on several of the sections as to what their intent was. On a couple of them I had other concerns about. After we met, I thought they were going to make some minor changes, and then all of a sudden the lease got a little thicker than I anticipated. So, I’m trying to set up a meeting with them for this week to try to iron these out. So, we should have all that worked out, and we can have...it will give us plenty of time to advertise for the 29^th of this month, if that’s okay.

President Mosby: Any discussion?

Commissioner Fanello: I’ll make a motion of that based on our discussion in space allocation that those conversations will happen with the County Council before that date. So moved.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered.

President Mosby: Next, discussion items, County Clerk, voting equipment.

Carla Hayden: Carla Hayden, Chief Deputy Vanderburgh County Clerk. Here we are again.

President Mosby: Okay. I guess, I just, I got a couple of questions.

Carla Hayden: Okay.

President Mosby: I don’t know that you can answer them or who. I know it says that we have to have, I think the grant ends, Patty told me by October 31^st or something.

Carla Hayden: October 31^st.

President Mosby: But, you know, in looking through the paperwork that she gave me, and what we needed to sign, and, Kevin, I don’t know if you’ve had time to go over all of that where it says if we sign this and we opt to take the money that, you know, we are going to be responsible that every polling place, you know, is going to meet all this criteria, plus the federal criteria plus the parking criteria for disabilities. You know, before I sign off on something like that, I don’t know if we need to get somebody, and I’m not going to say who for sure, but to go out and check everyone of these polling places, and have this criteria with them. Because, you know, in my discussion with the County Council, it’s obvious they don’t have the money. If we sign this, and we take the reimbursement, and then all of a sudden find out we’re liable to make all of these improvements to these polling places, which who knows what it could cost. You know, where’s that money coming from?

Carla Hayden: But, we have to have election equipment either way. That is a requirement. So, you’re going to have to buy new election equipment either way. Whether you take the reimbursement or you don’t take the reimbursement. You’re right, if you don’t meet all the criteria, if you don’t live up to your end of the bargain, yes, you do have to return that money.

President Mosby: I understand we have to have it. I’m just saying do we have to have it today? Or is this something that we need to budget for and look at for next year?

Carla Hayden: Well, right–

President Mosby: That’s what I’m trying to figure out.

Carla Hayden: Right now we’ve taken it upon ourselves to do a little preliminary evaluation of the polling places. We’ve sent some teams out looking at them. We are still in that process, hope to finish that by the end of the month. My understanding is that there will also be some teams sent out, officially, in the primaries to look at all the polling places. Those will be people appointed from the state level, I believe, and will include voters with disabilities looking at those. They will be making their recommendations on those.

Commissioner Fanello: To add something to that, Commissioner Mosby, reading through all the material, I think B.J. dropped it off at our office, it says no later than December 31, 2003, the county legislative body, which would be this board, will adopt an ordinance to establish a local advisory council comprised of representatives of the disabilities community and elderly voters to provide assistance to the county in choosing polling places. It goes on to say that we should appoint members, you know, with a variety of backgrounds from the community. So, it seems that this board needs to take some action on that.

Carla Hayden: Yeah, on the official level.

Commissioner Fanello: Yes, well, we do need some official answers, and we need to probably look at doing that in order to answer your questions.

President Mosby: I agree. I agree, to get some of this answered. I mean, I’m just worried that if we sign this, you know, immediately, what kind of liability we’re putting this county at.

Carla Hayden: Well, I’m afraid because they have set the deadline as October 31^st, if we don’t get this in, it’s not just sign that, you have to have a signed contract attached to it, that that money is going to be gone and we won’t get it. Because if you read that you’ll see many times first come, first served.

Commissioner Crouch: I don’t disagree with either of the Commissioners in terms of being sure that our polling places meet the standards that are required. But, I was of the impression that this is just the different options, and we need to make a decision as to which option we think would be best for Vanderburgh County. Then our attorney would get with the company’s attorney and would work out contract language. That contract language, I would presume could set dates in terms of when this would be in place, that would be mutually agreeable. You know, in terms of what would be addressed to making this all work. So, I was of the impression that we’re looking at options, and this isn’t really signing anything. It’s not until, at that point in time where a contract language can be actually hammered out that we would be in a position, or be asked to sign anything. So, I was, I had looked at the options, and if it’s alright I have a couple of questions about that.

Carla Hayden: Okay.

Commissioner Crouch: The first, if I’m looking at this, that first sheet that you did give us. The first column where it says operating lease of equipment, that would require us to come up with $557,182 a year? Is that correct?

Carla Hayden: That’s correct. I also have with me Rob McGinnis from ES&S, which is the company we’re talking about, and I also have B.J. Farrell, our Election Deputy, who put together this spreadsheet and the numbers. So, I would like them to come to the mike. They may also have some input on the questions.

Commissioner Crouch: Okay. So, that means we would be required to come up with $557,182 a year over the course of five years. Six years?

Carla Hayden: Five.

Commissioner Crouch: Five. Then at the end of that five years we would be able to purchase the equipment, we don’t have to, correct?

Carla Hayden: Correct.

Commissioner Crouch: But, it’s our option to purchase?

Carla Hayden: An option to buy at the end of that, at that price.

Commissioner Crouch: For $382,000 additional dollars?

Carla Hayden: Yes.

Commissioner Crouch: And we don’t have to make that decision until later?

Carla Hayden: My understanding is that that can be written into the contract as an option to buy at a price, or at an amount no greater than the 3,082, or the 382,000.

Commissioner Crouch: Okay, and then the next column over where it says purchase of equipment, and I presume that’s just an outright purchase?

Carla Hayden: Right. That is an outright purchase of the equipment. You’re just buying machines.

Commissioner Crouch: And we have then annual costs associated with that. The third is purchase of equipment, tell me the difference between–

Carla Hayden: That is a lease purchase. That would be, basically you’re paying this for the five years, and at the end of it, you would own it outright, but that would include all the extra services that we’ve talked about previously. All the support, all the printing, and all of those other services that are included in a straight lease.

Commissioner Crouch: Okay, but we would have to come up with $2.9 million right up front? Is that correct?

Rob McGinnis: It depends on how you would like to finance.

Commissioner Crouch: Can you come to the mike maybe? I have some more questions you can answer. Alright, so I interpreted that as meaning we have to come up with $2.9 million up front. No, I guess, we could borrow the money.

Rob McGinnis: Correct. That just depends on how the county would like to finance.

Commissioner Crouch: But, we would have to give that money to you in a lump sum, up front?

Rob McGinnis: For that, actually, for the amount of the hardware only, which for the Team II that would roughly be a little under two million. The services, in those cases, are not billed until they are provided.

Commissioner Crouch: Alright, so we would have to come up with two million up front?

Rob McGinnis: Correct.

Commissioner Crouch: Then the very last option you have, which is Team II purchase of equipment, that would be an annual cost to us of $668,268, which would include everything, but you all, we’re borrowing the money from you, correct?

Rob McGinnis: Correct.

Commissioner Crouch: We’re paying–

Rob McGinnis: That’s if we’re financing, which by the way we’ve got it at four and a quarter.

Commissioner Crouch: Four and a quarter?

Rob McGinnis: Which typically county’s can do better than we can.

Commissioner Crouch: So, the options, I would guess, Commissioners, would be the first and the last. Because I don’t....we were talking about not having enough money for space allocation, and we’re looking at coming up with either 2.2 or two million up front with those two middle options. To me it looks like that option one looks like the best bang for our buck in terms of the annual costs, and in terms of the option to purchase the equipment and own it outright after the end of five years. Also, if we choose not to purchase it, because of outdated technology or whatever, then we really aren’t out any money for the actual contract. So, I would like to see us move in the direction of that first option.

Commissioner Fanello: Well, I’m not ready to make that decision tonight. I would like to...Patty White was trying to get in touch with your office–

Rob McGinnis: Right.

Commissioner Fanello: –I would like to sit down and talk with you personally, if that works into your schedule–

Rob McGinnis: Absolutely.

Commissioner Fanello: –sometime this week?

Rob McGinnis: Sure.

Commissioner Fanello: So we could go over some of these figures and the equipment. Then I think I could probably make a better decision.

Rob McGinnis: Okay. Would be happy to.

President Mosby: Okay.

Carla Hayden: I just want to make sure that everyone understands we are on a deadline with this.

Commissioner Fanello: We have until October 31^st, so I think we’ve got some time here over the next week or so to have Kevin research maybe this ordinance that we have to do with the board that I was just talking about, and, you know, what our responsibilities are, and whoever wants to meet with the representative, I’m sorry, say your name again?

Rob McGinnis: Rob McGinnis.

Commissioner Fanello: I think we can come to some conclusion here in the next couple of weeks.

Commissioner Crouch: Yeah, I would hope that we could arrive at a decision that would allow us to get a reimbursement, but the contract would be crafted in a way that best benefits the taxpayers.

Rob McGinnis: Sure.

President Mosby: Are there any other questions? Thank you.

Commissioner Crouch: Do we need to put this on next week’s agenda?

Commissioner Fanello: Well, I would like to–

President Mosby: Depending on, I guess, when they get all this set up.

Rob McGinnis: I’ll contact you.

Commissioner Fanello: Right, you can contact me through the Commissioners office, and we’ll set up an appointment.

Rob McGinnis: Will do.

President Mosby: Next we have community corrections. I think we, is there a letter in our packet? The letter that we sent to the state? Right, I was going to say, I knew we had the letter, everybody’s got it. No, I’ve got it.

Madelyn Grayson: I’ll need one for the record.

President Mosby: There was a letter in your packet, and we need to get this up today, tomorrow, I guess. If everybody agrees with the letter, we’ll need to pass that, that letter is saying that we will take advantage of the 1.83 million that we will match off against the two million that we were offered. The Council did appropriate 1.3 the other day, so, this should in turn, if everything goes right, and the verbal commitment comes through, we should have 3.13 to work with.

Brad Ellsworth: Right, I took the liberty, in the interest of time, to go ahead and write that. I’m not sure that my name is the one that ought to be on it, but if everybody’s in agreement, I guess, it doesn’t matter who signs the bottom of the page. If that’s the consensus of everybody.

Commissioner Fanello: It doesn’t matter to me. We’re getting money from the state.

President Mosby: Yeah. You run corrections, that’s fine.

Brad Ellsworth: Okay.

Commissioner Crouch: And I believe this meets the criteria that they had asked that we address.

Brad Ellsworth: It should.

President Mosby: Yes.

Commissioner Crouch: There will be a lot of other issues, I’m sure, that will be negotiated or decided upon?

Brad Ellsworth: Right, in the...the next step, according to Mr. Fistrovich, is to get with Mike Brown after the verbal and the first letter, which is on the back of your all’s document, went up. Then he said we need to get with Mike Brown. Of course, we sent this second letter, which is on the top, and work on the amendment to the grant, which will secure the funds. So, I’ll start that next. If they, I don’t hear back from them shortly, as soon as they get it, I’ll call back up there. If I don’t hear back from them, we’ll work on that with Mike Brown.

President Mosby: So, is there any questions on the letter? Do we have a motion to send the letter to the state?

Commissioner Fanello: Before I make my motion, I would like to say thanks to the County Council, and also to Commissioner Mosby and the Sheriff who worked hard over the budget process to get the Council to make a commitment. So, thanks to that, but I’ll make a motion to approve.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second to approve the letter. So ordered.

Brad Ellsworth: Thank you all too for your cooperation in this.

Commissioner Crouch: Commissioner Mosby?

President Mosby: Yes.

Commissioner Crouch: While the Sheriff is here, I thought we would update you all on what had transpired at the last community corrections meeting. There was a discussion about placement criteria. Jump in and correct me at any point in time, but the advisory board discussed the fact that there was a sub-committee that was supposed to be looking at the placement criteria. They had been put on hold, or had put their decision on hold until there was some resolution to the amount of beds, and, you know, what kind of a facility we were going to build, and what kind of prisoners we were going to house. At the next meeting, I presume that, Vanderburgh County community corrections meeting, there will be some discussion about that. It probably would be helpful, now that we know what we’re going to do, if that sub-committee could meet prior to the next community corrections board meeting and have some kind of a discussion. I did bring a copy for the other two Commissioners of the placement criteria, so that you all could take a look at it, because I believe that the advisory board ought to make recommendations to this body, and there has been a lot of discussion about that. I think some of the issues that probably need to be resolved, and correct me if I’m wrong, is there should be some clarification as to direct placement versus indirect split or modified placements and sentences. We probably ought to look at prior charges or convictions, not necessarily just what they were being sent there for. And probably should look at the number of times they’ve been in the facility, and the length of stay. So, those are some of the issues I presume that we will be looking at, and coming back to this body with some recommendations.

President Mosby: Well, I was going to, I was getting ready to say my next part of community corrections discussion here, on the same note, was going to be the exact same thing, because I’ve got the exact same paper. What I was...I had, was contacted by a newspaper reporter last week after the 3.1 million, or hopefully 3.1 million came about, and the first thing that was said was is this going to be your second jail? My answer was, no. This is not a second jail. What I’m going to ask you to do tonight, and the other Commissioner to do is to take this and give me your recommendations on what you think, and I will send that over to the advisory board to look at. If they agree with it, fine. If not, it is my desire that this Commission will do something. Now, I mean, the judges will have a say so in it. I have talked to the Sheriff about it, and I will ask the advisory board for their comments on it, but I think the final decision lays right here.

Commissioner Crouch: Well, I could–

President Mosby: And I totally intend to deal with it in the next three weeks.

Commissioner Crouch: And I don’t disagree with that. In a sense I think we would be putting the cart before the horse if we don’t allow the advisory board to at least make some recommendations to this body. I understand the sense of urgency, I don’t disagree with that, and that’s why I’d asked the Sheriff if perhaps that sub-committee could meet prior to the next advisory board meeting, so they could actually make some recommendations that then could be moved to this body. You know, I personally would like to see that process followed, because that’s the process as I understand it. I understand and respect your opinion on that.

President Mosby: Commissioner Fanello?

Commissioner Fanello: I agree with both of you. Now is the time, since we have the report back, to make these recommendations, and I think we have to work together with the advisory board. The advisory board is their to advise the County Commissioners on what to do with the community corrections program. There were a couple of things in that report that I found disturbing, you know, the number of violent offenders that have been in the facility. I read the full report, and, I think, you know, there were a lot of good things in there too. I think the thing that does need to be stressed is, you know, the treatment agency, or the agency that we use for treatment and for programming, you know, those are outside agencies that we out source, you know, their services with. So, I think the Sheriff has done an excellent job in turning that facility around. You know, the treatment agencies themselves have to look at some of the recommendations that Dr. Latessa made to see if they can incorporate some of those suggestions into their programs. But, I did go ahead and take the opportunity, excuse me, opportunity to look at the placement criteria, and I would like to go ahead and throw out some recommendations that I would like for you to take back to the advisory board, just to see if we’re on the right track, or if I’m on the right track, and see what they think about some of those recommendations. Kind of, so we can have dialogue back and forth. If you would take some of those back, but I do have a few recommendations. Section one of the criteria, I would like for you to revisit the phrase in that paragraph that says,”no person shall be directly placed in the Vanderburgh County Correction Complex who has been convicted of one of the following non-suspendable felonies.” It seems to me that that phrase, “no person shall be directly”, may be deleted, because I think it goes along with some of the comments about indirect placement, direct placement, so, we might want to look at deleting that phrase. In section two and three, I would like for you to look at deleting the phrase, “unless exceptional circumstances exist”. I find it very hard to believe that there are exceptional circumstances that could exist that would allow a child molester to be placed at the Safe House. So, I have a problem with that. Section four, this actually goes along with section four and section six. In looking at maximum stays, I think Dr. Latessa’s report made a comment about nine months, and I think we should look at somewhere between nine and twelve months as a maximum stay, and that’s it. In order to get away from the perception that this is a second jail, because it is not a second jail. Section five, I would like for you to look at deleting, in it’s entirety. You know, again, that section talks about exceptional circumstances, and the judges may override some of the placement criteria, and I think we need to take a look at that section, and it possibly may need to be deleted in order to strengthen the placement criteria that we finally decide on. So, those are just some of my comments after looking at the placement criteria.

Commissioner Crouch: And I think those are good suggestions. I can’t say that I disagree with them.

President Mosby: Also, in section three, if you would, the end of the, “unless exceptional circumstances exist”, there I would like to see that deleted too. So, if you would take that back. I’m not sure that somewhere along the line we shouldn’t be looking at past record. I think I had talked to the Sheriff about that, and in some of these instances we might want to be looking at past record. So, that might want to be looked at.

Brad Ellsworth: I would jump in there and say I agree with everybody. But, I do, for different portions of what everybody says.

Commissioner Fanello: Yeah, I think everybody here is on the same page. I think we’re all working towards the same goal here.

Brad Ellsworth: The one, on the very first section, I’m not sure, Commissioner Fanello, about the direct placement. I think that follows, and I’m not disagreeing, that it follows the state statute that says that nobody will be directly placed. So, that should be mirror the state statute.

Commissioner Fanello: Okay.

Brad Ellsworth: I think where we get into that limbo is that indirect placement–

Commissioner Fanello: Yeah, so maybe if there is some way you can clarify that.

Brad Ellsworth: –where you can go to prison for a month, and then come back. Or go to jail for a week. But, I agree, I think this is one where we’re all elected and appointed to do the public’s will, and we have to gauge, as elected officials, what the pulse out there is. So, I think you’re all on track on this. We are going to be, you know, have a reduction in numbers somewhat, it looks like, so, we’re going to have to find a natural way to pare this down. All of your suggestions are exactly ways to do that. Looking at the type of offenses we take. I can tell you that just historically when we first got involved in ‘99, there was no limits on the amount of stay. In fact, there was an inmate, or a participant that was sentenced to 20 years out there, in-house, and that lasted about a month and a half and he violated, and then they gave him another chance and he violated again, then, I think, they sent him off to prison. Pretty much the consensus, PMSI said it, Latessa says it, that the length of stay is too long. Anything over nine months to a year is counter productive and you set yourself up for failure, and we certainly don’t want to do that. So, I think that’s an area that we definitely need to look at. Prior record, definitely. I think that’s another area that when Latessa comes in we talked about, but perhaps he’ll also give us some insight as to what throws up the red flag on previous record, you know, of...if he’s been in prison for robbery, community corrections may not be able to, you know, help him, at that point. He may be too institutionalized to be helped by the community corrections program. So, I think these are all good things. We’re going to have arguments, and I know it was quite a lively debate on this on what we’re saying, you know, the exclusionary, and taking away the judiciaries, you know, options there of overriding that system, but, like I said, I think that this is where we decide, with the advisory board and with this Commission of where we’re going to go with this. There’s a story for every story, and that’s what we’ll have to filter through of what we’re going to do.

Commissioner Crouch: Would it be possible, do you think, Sheriff, if that sub-committee could meet prior to the next advisory board meeting?

Brad Ellsworth: Sure. I’ll try to remember who’s on it. I know Russ Woodson was on it and myself, and I’ll find out who else was there. I’ll go through the minutes.

Commissioner Crouch: One of the things that I forgot to mention is the AWOL policy, whether there is a set period of time before someone is actually AWOL. If not, then maybe there should be, and certainly it should probably be less than what it is.

Brad Ellsworth: Right, we’ve got that in place, but, and this is just their policy, unless they are gone 24 hours, that the Prosecutor’s office won’t file charges. Now, as soon as we find out, we’re putting the packet together and forwarding that to the Sheriff’s office and they are, as they get a chance, out looking for that person. So, that’s another benefit of involving our agency is that we’ve got access to law enforcement when we need it. So, although we sometimes get criticized for, you know, they don’t think we can turn that hat around and be the corrections side. It certainly helps when somebody goes AWOL, you know, to be out looking, because, quite honestly, in ‘99 if they went AWOL there was nothing done until they showed back up or got arrested later.

Commissioner Crouch: Dr. Latessa will be in here what date? October 11^th is it?

Brad Ellsworth: October 10^th, I believe.

Commissioner Crouch: The 10^th?

Brad Ellsworth: Yes.

Commissioner Crouch: And if any of the Commissioners, we discussed this at the advisory board meeting, if any of the Commissioners, or anyone has any questions that they would like to forward to Dr. Latessa in advance, if you send those to the attention of swoodall@vanderburghsheriff.com.

Brad Ellsworth: Right.

Commissioner Crouch: Because he’s just going to be here for a set period of time, and we don’t want to ask questions and have him leave. So, as you read through that report, if you have any questions, if you can e-mail those they will forward those to him so that we’re sure he addresses those points.

Brad Ellsworth: Right.

Commissioner Fanello: So, are you on the sub-committee, Commissioner Crouch?

Commissioner Crouch: No, I’m not.

Commissioner Fanello: Okay, well–

Commissioner Crouch: It was formed before–

Commissioner Fanello: –can you forward our comments to them?

Commissioner Crouch: Oh, sure. Absolutely.

Brad Ellsworth: Alright. I can do that also. Would be glad to.

President Mosby: Is there any other questions?

Madelyn Grayson: I will need a copy of both the DOC letter and the placement criteria. I didn’t get those.

President Mosby: Do you have the extra? I wrote on my DOC letter.

President Mosby: Next, Commissioners, personnel policy. Everybody should have the personnel policy. Is there any comments or questions?

Kevin Winternheimer: Well, if we have the time. I didn’t know how you wanted to do this. If you want to proceed tonight with some of these issues, or if you wanted to give me some issues, or look over where we’re at now. Just let me know, and we’ll take it wherever you want to go with it.

Commissioner Fanello: This afternoon I e-mailed Kevin some more, kind of tying up some of the loose ends that we left (Inaudible).

President Mosby: Why don’t we leave it at if you something, get with Kevin over this week, and then we’ll have it back on the agenda for next week.

Commissioner Crouch: Alright, because I quite honestly haven’t had an opportunity to look through all of it.

President Mosby: Okay.

Commissioner Crouch: So, that would be fine with me.

President Mosby: That will be on for next week.

President Mosby: Next, County Attorney, first reading of the amendment of the erosion control. Everybody should have that, CO.09.03-005.

Kevin Winternheimer: I should probably let John address this. This came from his office. This is, in general, in response to the new employee, and in a nutshell you could say it’s transferring some enforcement authority over to his office, in light of the new job duties and the new person that he has in his office.

John Stoll: Right. Basically, the old ordinance specifically referenced the SWCD for all the inspection and enforcement, and now that that employee has been transferred to my office, we just need to amend the ordinance to say that the duties would be through my office. In doing that, basically, the main change that we made was, instead of saying the SWCD was responsible for all those duties, we just called it an authorized agent. That way it’s either an employee in the Vanderburgh County Engineering Department or other employee designated by the Commissioners.

Commissioner Crouch: Question. If the Commission does this and it takes effect immediately, do we need to do anything in an agreement with the state?

John Stoll: As it stands right now this will just deal with non Rule Five sites. Whenever the ordinance that Bill Jeffers is working on gets adopted, once we get a final format for that, then we’ll have to submit that to the state as part of our Rule Thirteen compliance. At that time they’ll review that ordinance and see if they agree that it establishes appropriate review and inspection for Rule Five sites. If so, then they would grant Vanderburgh County the authority to do the inspection through the committee that Bill Jeffers has proposed, as opposed to having Rule Five sites go through the SWCD as well. So, over the long haul, yes, we will need the state’s concurrence, but it won’t be on this ordinance, it will be on the other ordinance.

Commissioner Crouch: Do we know if the city is also making these type of changes?

John Stoll: I’m not sure. The city ordinance is very similar to the county ordinance. It specifically calls for the SWCD to do that work on the what was typically called the local erosion control issues, which was deemed to be non Rule Five sites. Unless they make similar changes, then the enforcement would all lie with the SWCD for the City of Evansville and for the Town of Darmstadt as well.

Commissioner Crouch: I raise that, Commissioners, because that might be something that we want to explore with the city, and if, in fact, they would like for the County Engineer to participate in regulating the sites in the city as opposed to SWCD, then, at some point in time there would probably have to be an inter-local agreement between the city and county. I know that’s far off down the road, but it might be something that we might want to think about, and then perhaps get some reimbursement from the city.

Commissioner Fanello: That sounds good.

John Stoll: I was going to say, it’s my understanding that basically Darmstadt, the city, and the county were all taken care of by one person at SWCD. So, depending on how the work load changes once the Rule Thirteen regulations are adopted, I would say it could be done. Right now it would definitely take ordinance changes, and probably an inter-local agreement to take care of it.

President Mosby: Okay, is there any other questions? Any questions pertaining to the ordinance? Chair would entertain a motion.

Commissioner Fanello: Motion to approve first reading.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered.

Commissioner Crouch: Do we need a roll call on that?

President Mosby: On a first reading? Do we need a roll call on a first reading, or just final?

Kevin Winternheimer: I would go ahead and do one.

President Mosby: Okay, roll call vote, Commissioner Crouch?

Commissioner Crouch: Yes.

President Mosby: Commissioner Fanello?

Commissioner Fanello: Yes.

President Mosby: Commissioner Mosby, yes. Three ayes, no nays. Erosion control ordinance passes first reading.

(Motion carries 3-0)

President Mosby: County Attorney, approval of transfer of property for purposes of Centre rebond funding, or bond refunding.

Kevin Winternheimer: Yes, I do not know the history, maybe some here might, but for whatever reason a portion of the Centre property is owned by the county, a substantial portion is owned by the Building Authority. In trying to finalize the refinancing, refunding bond, whatever, the title people, and the bonding people are insisting that the Building Authority needs to own all of it so they can get title insurance so that the people that buy and sell the bonds are satisfied. So, what they are asking you to do, and there is a deed prepared by Joe Harrison, Jr. for the Building Authority, I looked it over and it looks fine, transferring that smaller portion to the Building Authority so they own the whole piece of property that is the basis of the refunding. Like I said, I wish I knew how that came to be that two entities owned two parts of it, but I don’t have that information.

President Mosby: Are there any questions? Chair would entertain a motion.

Commissioner Fanello: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered.

President Mosby: Do we have any Commission contracts? Seeing none, other items, I want to make one appointment. Jim Will, Sr. who was our appointment to the Airport Authority Board had sent a letter, I think about three weeks ago, saying that he had turned 70 and he was ready to travel, and wanted to get off the board. So, we need to fill his position on the board, and I would like to put the name of Paul Wallace in as the appointment to the Airport Board.

Commissioner Fanello: I’ll make a motion to approve.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second for Paul Wallace. So ordered. We will need to contact him, and I guess whatever paperwork and contact Bob Working to tell him who the new member is.

President Mosby: Public comment, is there any public comment? Yes, sir.

Jerald Jones: Jerald Jones, I live on Lyle Road. As probably most of the people on the board realize that my brother and I have been coming up here for, well, I don’t know, the past few years, and we are very enlightened by the governmental process. We’ve watched millions of dollars appropriated for various things. We’re trying to get, as you well know, the Lyle Road project, it was approved early on in the year. We don’t know what the status is. We’re just trying to get a little dirt and gravel put on the road. It’s not a complicated project, but we don’t know what the status is. If you could shed some light on that I would appreciate it very much.

President Mosby: I think, and, John will correct me here if I’m wrong, you can wave, but I know we’ve got the appraisals in and I think there’s what about ten or twelve owners to that piece of property? So, we’re going to end up having to try to contact between ten and twelve people to try to make purchase on this piece of property. Now we have all the appraisals and everything is in, but that’s where we’re at right now.

Jerald Jones: Okay, so Mr. Grimes, who’s the, one of the main property owners of that tract of land you’re speaking about, has offered and has talked to John and offered to provide all of the addresses and so forth if that would help you. He can be contacted.

President Mosby: I think we have his name already, but.

Jerald Jones: And our offer as far as the dirt on the project is still there. I mean, my brother and I would be happy to donate the dirt, if it’s suitable for the project. You know, we’ll do anything we can, we would just like to see it...we don’t know when it’s going to be done. Here it is already September, and this project was approved early in the year. We just don’t know.

President Mosby: Well, we just got the appraisals what, two weeks ago, I think?

John Stoll: That’s about right.

President Mosby: About two or three weeks ago before we got the appraisals back.

Jerald Jones: Okay.

President Mosby: So, I mean, that’s where we’re working from right now, and trying to make contact, and, I mean, we’ll have to make them an offer, whether they take it or not–

Jerald Jones: Sure.

President Mosby: –is a different story.

Jerald Jones: Sure, sure. I wish we could have done this earlier in the year, you know, that way we would maybe have had the compaction of dirt is now going to be maybe a problem. I don’t know. If we start the project soon, you know, but, whatever you can do to expedite the process, I would love to see it happen.

President Mosby: That’s what we’re trying to do.

Jerald Jones: Thank you.

President Mosby: Thank you.

John Stoll: I did speak with Mr. Grimes today, and I believe I’ve got some more of the information regarding the ownership of one parcel. It is split into six people own a thirtieth each, and three people own one fifth or two fifths each. I believe we’ve got that resolved to the point that we can make an offer on that. Offers have been made on the other three parcels. Kevin and I met for about two hours last week trying to figure out how to make the correct offers on the one piece of property that has the multiple owners involved. There’s another parcel out there where the offer has been made, but, there again, the owners have died, it has been transferred to another individual, we don’t have the paper trail indicating how, who really owns it at this point, so, it’s not been sitting around with nothing going on. It’s more than just a little dirt, it’s six feet is what we’re going to end up raising the road. So, it’s taken some time, there’s no question of that, but it is progressing. Unfortunately given the time of year, if we were ready to bid today, we couldn’t open bids until early October, and we’re getting into the time of year where it’s not going to be too feasible to do dirt work. So, it very well could be into next year. Well, the property owners have 30 days to evaluate, or 25 days to evaluate the offers anyway. So, I don’t see the project getting done this year. I would like to say it would, but I don’t think it’s really that feasible at this stage of the game.

Kevin Winternheimer: If I might add to that, and this one was particularly challenging. Conceptually it looks like a regular little road widening project, but as John said we’ve got one thirtieth shares, and as it works out the people may only be entitled, what were we figuring $68 or less–

John Stoll: $38.

Kevin Winternheimer: –$38 a piece, but we still have to go through all this procedure, and it’s not, the situation with a lot of road projects where the people are living there these people are in Ohio and all over.

John Stoll: Chicago, Hammond, Gary, Evansville, Princeton.

Kevin Winternheimer: You have a situation where people have died, and, of course, we don’t know whether estates were opened up. So, there’s no records here in Vanderburgh County. I was telling John we almost need a genealogist as much as we need anything else, because the record trail is not there. We’re making progress, but it is a, title wise, and as a government entity, we have to be sure we have the title. It’s a challenge, but we are making progress.

John Stoll: We did get the green cards back on the mail that we sent out, so we do know that the three where the offers have gone out they did receive their offers. So, at least the clock is ticking on those.

Kevin Winternheimer: I told John if this was private planner, I would almost tell him to go ahead and do it and see who complains, and we’ll pay them the $38. We can’t do it that way, as a governmental entity we have to figure out who owns it and make legitimate offers. Like I said, we’re going to spend more time and effort trying to pay somebody $38 than, you know, what the $38 is worth, but that’s the procedure that we have to follow to do it.

John Stoll: We did get some good news on it last week too, we thought there was the potential that we would have to get a flood way permit from DNR, but it’s just outside of flood way fringe, and since it’s outside the fringe, no DNR permit is required. Even if it’s in the fringe, the flood way permit’s not required, but if we went another 50' west, we would be getting a DNR permit as well.

President Mosby: Mr. Jones.

Jerald Jones: I do want to thank John and Kevin and everybody else that has worked on this. It looks like it’s not going to be done this year. The money that was allocated for the project, will that still be there for early next year then?

President Mosby: Yeah, we can encumber that.

Jerald Jones: Okay.

President Mosby: John will take care of that.

John Stoll: If it turns out that we get the right-of-way secured, even if it’s December, we can still put it out for bid and get a contract awarded, we’ll just put a completion date of sometime next year when the weather is dry where the work can actually be done. So, if we get an awarded contract, that will definitely allow us to carry the money over as well.

President Mosby: Okay. Any other questions or comments? Is there any other public comment?

President Mosby: Any old business? That’s easy.

President Mosby: Any new business? We’re zipping right through. Department head reports, County Engineer.

John Stoll: First I’ve got a street acceptance request for section five of Bridlewood Subdivision. This is 565' of Tempsford Drive, and 146' of Winterfalls Lane. These streets were constructed generally in accordance with the approved plans, and it’s requested these be accepted for maintenance. This subdivision is located at the northwest corner of Fischer Road and Boonville-New Harmony Road.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: So ordered.

John Stoll: Next I’ve got another street acceptance request. This is for section three of Stonecreek Subdivision. This is for the realignment of Seib Road. It’s kind of a unique acceptance because we’ve also got some road that was deleted as well. When Stonecreek Subdivision was approved, it was approved on the condition that Seib Road, which currently runs straight north-south and ties into Kansas Road at the south end, and Boonville-New Harmony on the north, was realigned to provide greater separation between 57 and Kansas, and the Seib Road and Kansas intersection. This portion is the curve that connects the old portion of Seib Road to the new portion of Seib Road. So, this street acceptance actually deletes all this cross hatched, not cross hatched, but shaded area of road, which is existing Seib Road, and then adds all the road from this point, which is listed as Station 16 plus 84, back down to this point which is Station 11 plus ten. Then also this little connector road. So, it’s not just an acceptance, it’s actually a removal as well, and I just wanted to point that out, because we need to track these things this way because this would go onto our road mileage that we submit to INDOT at the end of the year, and this is really the only way we could come up to clarify that we’re adding road, but we’re also deleting road. It’s requested that this be accepted for maintenance also.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: So ordered.

John Stoll: I have another street acceptance. This is in section two of Broadlawn Subdivision. This is located off of Heinlein Road between Baumgart and Petersburg. This is 1,095' of Hazel Court, and 162' of Harlaxton East. It’s requested these streets be accepted as well.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: So ordered.

John Stoll: Next I have a letter from E&B Paving, they are the contractor on the INDOT State Road 62 project. As a part of that State Road 62 project they are going to have to close down Telephone Road at it’s intersection with State Road 62. When that gets closed, their only way to and from their paving plan on Telephone Road will be running back to the west to Old Boonville Highway, then to Burkhardt Road. They were asking for written permission to do this. I discussed this with the County Attorney, and basically this would comply with the truck route ordinance, because this would give them the shortest path between their destination and a truck route. So, and it’s really their only option. So, I’m requesting approval to sign this letter to E&B Paving. Basically, they are saying that they will have intermittent shut downs of 62 and Telephone intersection between September 15^th and October 13^th.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: So ordered.

John Stoll: Next I would like to request approval to go to County Council to transfer $175,000 from the Broadway Avenue Bridge #271, which is account number 2030-4381 to Johnson Lane Culvert Account. We’ve requested a number, but it’s not been established yet. This would be for the purpose of replacing a sub-standard culvert structure out on Johnson Lane that is connected to the existing county bridge through some homemade concrete block and timber structure. The reason we have the money in the Broadway Bridge Account was the bridge inventory rated that bridge poorly, but in talking to the inspectors they acknowledged that it’s the culvert structure that’s attached to our bridge is what’s in poor shape, not the bridge. So, we won’t need the money in the bridge account, but we will need to replace the culvert underneath Johnson Lane. So, that’s why I was requesting approval to go to County Council.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: So ordered.

John Stoll: The last item I’ve got is a request for approval for an additional $1,800 for tree removal on the Mill Terrace Barrett Law project. This is for a tree removal on Whittman Drive that was not called for as part of the plans. Basically, there’s a tree that’s in line with where a ditch is supposed to go. It wasn’t delineated in the plans or in the specs. Koberstein Trucking provided a price of $1,800, and I would like to request the Commissioners approval to proceed with getting this tree removed.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: So ordered.

John Stoll: I’ll bring a final change order in later on in the project. That’s all I have.

President Mosby: Any questions of John? Thanks, John.

John Stoll: Thanks.

President Mosby: County Highway, Dennis.

Dennis Hudnall: Dennis Hudnall, County Highway. Good evening. The only thing I have, I’ll bring you up to date on the St. Joe project. We did close the road Wednesday. Pioneer Rail Corp. did do their part, and they finished it Friday. This morning we milled the road down, and we’ll pave it tomorrow, and the road will probably be open on early Wednesday morning, if everything goes as planned. So, it’s progressing real well, and then we’re starting to negotiate on Mill Road next, to see if we can get that as soon as possible.

President Mosby: Any questions?

Commissioner Crouch: I did receive an e-mail from an individual regarding some roads out in the county where they wanted some tree trimming. I’ll e-mail that to you tomorrow.

Dennis Hudnall: Sure.

Commissioner Crouch: Then you can take a look at it and see if we’re going to be out in that area.

Dennis Hudnall: Get me that e-mail, I’ll check it out tomorrow.

Commissioner Crouch: Okay, thanks.

President Mosby: Any other questions? Thank you, Dennis.

Dennis Hudnall: Have a good night.

President Mosby: County Attorney.

Kevin Winternheimer: Yes, we’ve already taken care of several items, but I think I’ve got three left. The first is just a reminder to the Sheriff’s Department, don’t forget your media notice, notice to the public on your sub-committee. The community corrections sub-committee is covered by the Open Door Law. Just a reminder. The second thing is, and I probably should have done this last week, I just wanted to thank all of the people out on Jobe’s Lane, particularly the Lockards. They were very instrumental in getting all of the neighbors together. We met down here. We also met at the West Side Library, or the Red Bank Road Library branch, a week ago Saturday to get the necessary easements and paperwork signed. They were very instrumental in helping to coordinate getting everybody together. Just thanking the neighbors out there in general. The one’s that we needed easements for to complete that project, easements were given to the county. Without that the project would not go forward. I signed off on some paperwork the other day from Judy Weatherholt, it’s my understanding that that paperwork is being forwarded, as is, Commissioner Mosby, is being forwarded to the state, and we’ll cross our fingers that the project is finally approved up there. At this point we’ve done everything we can on this end. I do want to thank the neighbors out there, they were very gracious, and that, sometimes that’s the way to get a project done, donate the right-of-way for the betterment of everybody. The third and last item is we have a mediation lawsuit coming up at the end of the month, and I would like to schedule an Executive Session with the Commissioners on September 22^nd at 5:00. If you’re available to discuss that, just to give me some guidance before we go into mediation, get your thoughts on it. Is that available?

Madelyn Grayson: They talked about the space allocation on that date.

Commissioner Fanello: Right.

Kevin Winternheimer: Oh, we do?

Commissioner Fanello: Can we do it at 5:15?

Kevin Winternheimer: Sure.

Commissioner Fanello: Will we have enough time?

Kevin Winternheimer: I’ll talk faster. That’s fine. 5:15 is fine. That’s the 22^nd, and that’s all I have.

President Mosby: Any questions?

President Mosby: Superintendent of County Buildings.

Tammy McKinney: I have two travel requests from Soil and Water that need to be added to the consent items. They were faxed to our office late this afternoon.

Commissioner Fanello: Motion to add to consents items.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second to add to consents. So ordered.

Tammy McKinney: That’s all I have.

President Mosby: Okay, any questions?

President Mosby: Burdette Park.

Commissioner Crouch: The copper domes look great.

President Mosby: It’s progressing.

Tammy McKinney: (Inaudible. Mike not on.)

President Mosby: Go ahead, Steve, I’m sorry.

Steve Craig: Steve Craig, Burdette Park. The Aquatic Center closed for the season, and the Labor Day weekend was a mirror of the Memorial Day weekend, it was cold and rainy. The Aquatic Center was down this summer, but building rentals was up. We’re going to keep the miniature golf and the batters cage open through September. Then we had a, I guess, a kind of a unique request on someone wanting to use the seminar building for an extended leave, or an extended amount of time. I was kind of wanting to know what your view was on that.

President Mosby: Steve called–

Steve Craig: Did you get it?

President Mosby: Well, Steve called me the other day, I forget what day it was, Friday maybe, I’m not even sure. Is it a doctor?

Steve Craig: Yeah.

President Mosby: There was a realtor that has inquired about the old home that the manager used to live in who is willing to pay a monthly fee plus a deposit, I think, for eight months till his home is done.

Steve Craig: Yes, sir.

President Mosby: And, I think, somewhere in the neighborhood of $800 we could be talking $10,000 to lease that out for eight months. We went back and checked, and, I think, what was it 16 times we rented it in a year?

Steve Craig: Up till now we’ve rented it 16 times, and I think it’s rented–

President Mosby: At $150 a hit. So, truthfully–

Steve Craig: Did you not get it in your packet?

President Mosby: I didn’t see it, but I remember you talking to me.

Steve Craig: Well, Gary, it was supposed to have been in the packet, because of what I read it was $1,200 a month.

President Mosby: Or was it $1,200?

Steve Craig: Yes, sir.

President Mosby: I don’t see it in our packet.

Steve Craig: I apologize for that. I thought you guys would have time to review it. It’s not until October 3^rd, so I’ll make sure it gets in this packet, and you can read it.

President Mosby: I think what Steve was looking for was direction from the Commission.

Commissioner Crouch: Has the advisory board considered this? Or have you polled them?

Steve Craig: Our meeting is next Wednesday, so, we hadn’t had time to meet, and the realtor was wanting to talk to us about it. So, I was not putting the cart before the horse, but I had thought, you know, to get it rolling and that before the thing that I would get your opinion. But, I think Bonita forgot to put it in the packet. So, I kind of–

Commissioner Fanello: Well, if you’re going to put it in the packet for Monday, do you just want to poll the board members and see how they feel about it?

Steve Craig: That will be fine.

Commissioner Fanello: Then we can make our decision on Monday, and take their recommendation.

Steve Craig: Okay, that would be fine.

Commissioner Fanello: Kind of an informal recommendation.

President Mosby: Is there any other questions or comments? Anything else, Steve?

Steve Craig: No, just my worksheets.

President Mosby: Okay, thank you very much.

Steve Craig: Thank you.

President Mosby: Do I have a motion to accept Soil and Water and Ozone?

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered.

President Mosby: Consent items?

Commissioner Fanello: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Crouch: I’ll second. I did not have in my packet the closing documents for the Evansville-Vanderburgh County Building Authority Income Tax refunding. Was there anything that we needed to–

Commissioner Fanello: Yeah, those are, because I think we’ve already approved the formal documents, haven’t we? So, those are all the things that we have to sign.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: So ordered. After looking at that.

Commissioner Fanello: We could have killed a small tree.

Kevin Winternheimer: (Inaudible. Mike not on.)

President Mosby: If there’s not further business, I will accept a motion to adjourn.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Crouch: Second.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered.

(The meeting was adjourned at 6:28 p.m.)

CONSENT ITEMS:

         Jail Expenses:

         Standard and Poor’s.

         CUSIP Service Bureau.

         Travel Requests:

         Knight Assessor             Health Department         Commissioners

         Center Assessor             County Assessor            Perry Assessor

         SWCD

         Employment Changes:

         Superior Court                Circuit Court                   Knight Assessor

         County Highway             Burdette Park                 Sheriff Department

         County Clerk                   County Assessor            Prosecutor

         Commissioners:

         Closing Documents for Evansville-Vanderburgh County Building

         Authority Excise and Income Tax Lease Rental Refunding Bonds

         County Clerk: Submit Monthly Report for July 2003.

         Auditor: Submit A/P Vouchers.

         Health Department: Software Agreement RANAC.

         Those in Attendance:

         David W. Mosby             Catherine Fanello           Suzanne M. Crouch

         Bill Fluty                          Kevin Winternheimer      Tammy McKinney

         Madelyn Grayson           Carla Hayden                 Rob McGinnis

         John Stoll                        Jerald Jones                   Dennis Hudnall

         Steve Craig                     Brad Ellsworth                Others Unidentified

         Members of Media

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS

David W. Mosby, President

Catherine Fanello, Vice President

Suzanne M. Crouch, Member

Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.