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Board of Commissioners October 30, 2000
Vice President Mourdock: Okay, good
evening. We'll call the October, my calendar says 27th but that's not right,
the October 30th, 2000, meeting of the Vanderburgh County Commission to
order. I have a few new faces in the audience so I'll make some introductions.
At my far right is the Superintendent of County Buildings, Tony Greubel;
our County Attorney, Joe Harrison, Jr.; County Commissioner, Pat Tuley;
my far left is Jane Laib who's our Recording Secretary; and the County
Auditor, Suzanne Crouch. Mrs. Jerrel had a little too much leaf raking
in the past few days, so she is rather immobile. I understand she hurt
her back a bit. Hopefully, she'll be up and around tomorrow, but she will
not be with us tonight. Will you join us for the Pledge of Allegiance,
please?
Vice President Mourdock: The first item on our agenda this evening is the approval of minutes from the October 23rd meeting. Commissioner Tuley: I'll move approval of the minutes from the October 23rd meeting as submitted by the auditor. Vice President Mourdock: I'll will
say second and so ordered.
Vice President Mourdock: Second thing on our agenda this evening is for summary minutes of tonight's Executive Session. Just by force of habit, I guess, Pat, I'll go ahead and state that our summary minutes of this evening's meeting would note that the county attorney, Commissioner Tuley, the auditor, and I were present. We discussed pending litigation against the county and county personnel matters. Commissioner Tuley: And I'll second or put that in form of a motion and- Vice President Mourdock: And I will...with
you making the motion, I will say second and so ordered for the summary
minutes.
Vice President Mourdock: Despite the order of things on our agenda, I know that Erik Bentle with the county garage is here and probably shouldn't be here this evening per his doctor's orders but wanted to have a brief discussion. So Erik, if you don't mind, we'll go ahead and do the county garage section first. We do have your report in here from the normal weekly report. I don't if there's any questions about that, Pat? Or anything that you want to ask Erik or Mark? Erik Bentle: As far as paving, we are done for the season. We start rock and shoulders probably the mid part of this week. We'll be doing that until the weather gets bad enough where we can't do it again. Then we'll finish it up the rest of the year. Basically, that's all I have unless you have something for me. Commissioner Tuley: Erik, I'm sorry you felt a need to come out here tonight, but I am glad that you're here because I just want to go over this...some of the things that we talked about on the phone today, I'd like to get on the record. There was discussion last week that started out because it was pointed out that a portion of Maasberg road, I think it was 4,500 foot of it, beginning at Baseline down to the wooden bridge that was put in a couple years-- a year ago-whenever it was, was paved. Going back and reviewing the approved paving list for this year and looking at the amended paving list for this year that was amended to add, I think, at that time we may have added West Haven Drive, Magnolia Drive, and Meadowlark Drive. I don't remember if there were any other amendments to it. Maasberg was never on there. Given the fact that this year in addition to the money that we had allocated for road repairs and given the fact that we had to go back and ask for another $300,000, and given the fact we still have something like 13 or 14 roads that did not get done this year because, quite frankly, we ran out of money, the question becomes why did Maasberg, a narrow two lane gravel road, get paved? Erik Bentle: Well to start with, the list we give you every year is a projected list of what we-like a wish list. What we hope to get done. Very rarely, except last year, did we finish the entire list. This year, of course, the way the oil prices were, we had trouble even getting half of the list done. So, Iike you said, we went back and asked for more money. We made that decision at the beginning of that oil crisis that we had to do the worst roads in the county first. The roads that we did not get to we figured could wait, at least, another year to be redone. Maasberg was done...we were out on the far north side, Campbell Road, Walnut, doing the ones out in there and Maasberg just happened to come up that it was falling apart. It's an old gravel road that's used by several people who live on that road right there. It's got nice houses. The farm equipment that uses that road has destroyed it. On the road itself, one lane was almost completely cut through. It was crumbling and falling apart and I thought safety reasons wise, we need to get some sort of base on that road to hold it together for the winter or we were going to completely lose it. Gravel was not going to be the solution. Commissioner Tuley: Erik, how many of these nice homes are out there that you just eluded to? Erik Bentle: There's three or four on that road. Commissioner Tuley: There is one, I think, that runs along the road in the section that was paved. I was out there yesterday. Erik Bentle: Okay. Commissioner Tuley: So there's one home out there. Now, as far as...what exactly did you do to the road in terms of shoring it up, correcting it, and whatever? Erik Bentle: We patched base in the parts that were falling apart and patched some dirt down the shoulders to try to hold the edges together. Then we put base and a half inch of surface over the top of that base to bind it together trying to hold it together for the winter. We want to get it on our list for next year. That way the whole thing will be paved next year. Commissioner Tuley: So the portion that was done, was it the full-was it completely necessary to do the 4,500 square foot given the fact that we didn't have that much stuff, that much money, or that much material left? Was 4,500 foot of it crumbling? Is that what you're saying? Erik Bentle: I think it was necessary, yes. Commissioner Tuley: Given the fact that you work for the County Commissioners and given the fact that the County Commissioners are the ones that you and the county engineer bring to us the list of roads that you recommend that need to be done, didn't you feel it important to come back to this body and say, "I know we ran out of money, and I know were short, and I know we didn't have roads done, however, I feel like there's a problem out here on this road that needs to be done?" You didn't think that was necessary? Erik Bentle: Yes, and I explained to you earlier that's probably what should have been done, but at the given time, we were out in the area and had the equipment there. I felt it was just something that we should have done and got over with and it was finished. Commissioner Tuley: Even when you were here on October the 9th and just casually mentioned something about Maasberg and not one of the three commissioners picked up on the fact, at that time, that it wasn't on...that was another opportunity to say, "Hey, by the way, this is important and I think it needs to be done." Erik Bentle: I apologize for not bringing it to your attention. Commissioner Tuley: I don't want you to misunderstand. I'm not trying to micro manage what you're doing out there, but I think when we put together a list, and I'll say it this way, I don't know, Richard asked me if I think this was done for political reasons what possibly was the motive or what was the political gain for having this done? I have sat here and publically applauded these other two commissioners and the garage and the county engineering department for putting together a list every year of roads based on the...not based on districts of commissioners or based on who lives on the roads. It just made me a little suspect that there's more in this decision making than the fact that that road may have been crumbling given the fact that you were getting pressure from Councilman Wortman to get that job done and given the fact that Councilman Wortman's been trying for seven or eight years to get that road paved. It amazes me that without a call from the sheriff's department or without a call from the school corporation, buss drivers or anything else, that suddenly that road was crumbling to the point that it had to have asphalt put on it. Now, you've given your explanation and, as I told you on the phone, I have had no problems with you out there whatsoever. I think you've been a good county supervisor out there and you have a good report with your men. We've not had to deal with a lot of problems like we've had to deal with in the past because, I think, you have a handle on what's going on there. You dropped the ball on this one, is the only reason that I'm not going to move that you be terminated for making this decision in and out of this board's authority. I think this board is who you work for not Councilman Wortman. Having said that, I'm going to let it go with the understanding that I don't want to micro manage. I don't think this board wants to micro manage, but I really think given the fact that we were really short on money and had a lot of roads to pave, you should have came before this board. I think you recognize that now. Erik Bentle: I was also under the understanding that when we made the decision to do the worst roads first that if we did run into one that needed to be done, it should have been done. Am I correct? Commissioner Tuley: If we go through and create a list, unless you run into an emergency and if you want to call an emergency, I think only this body has the right to declare an emergency and go ahead and do it. So, at that point in time, between you and whoever the commissioners are from this point forward, need to come to an understanding of that. If the other two commissioners or three commissioners are here after I'm gone, if that's the understanding, that's fine. That's between you and them, but I don't think we ever operated this board under that operation or understanding since I've been here for eight years. Erik Bentle: Okay. Like I said, I apologize for that. Like I told you on the phone, I made the call. If you think that I dropped the ball, it was me that did it. I made the call to do it because I thought it was unsafe. I did not think it would last through the winter just putting gravel on it. It wasn't going to work. Vice President Mourdock: Erik, let me jump in on this because I understand Commissioner Tuley's concern. Clearly, as he said a moment ago, only the commissioners can officially declare an emergency and there are certain statutory things that means. In this case, I just want to reinforce the point that, yes, what you said a moment ago it absolutely correct. You said that any money we had left over, and that was discussed at this board in a public meeting, if we had any money left over, we were going to take care of the worst ones. At that point too, the worst ones, especially when you use the term "emergency", it's something that we need to know about here. So, I want to make that point. I would though go on the record also, Pat you made the comment a moment ago that when this came up on October 9th and, in fact, were provided the information at least the week before because in the weekly progress report that Erik submitted the week of October 2nd for what was happening back in September, we were given the information in writing then that the work at Maasberg was going to take place. Now, I know what you're going to say, "It went by all three of us and that doesn't necessarily mean that just because it was on there that it was automatically approved to go ahead and handle something that wasn't on the list." I'm just making the point, as you said before, all three of us had information and it was at our fingertips and we didn't see it. Commissioner Tuley: You're right, that don't make it right. That's when I begin to wonder if we're playing "catch me if you can,"and I don't like that game. Erik Bentle: No, and I don't either. Vice President Mourdock: I'll say for the record, I don't think that's what the situation is here. I think Pat and I agree that he's done an excellent job out there and you are to be complimented, Erik. The problems that Pat was eluding to that we use to have at the garage, we haven't had since Erik's been out there. Commissioner Tuley: We haven't had personnel problems like that since. Vice President Mourdock: We just want to make sure that the money the county has to use for roads is allocated most wisely. I, like Pat, don't want to micro manage every decision, but when you're thinking of something as an emergency... this is tough because on the one hand I applaud your initiative in recognizing it, but on the other hand, we need to know about it as well. Commissioner Tuley: One final question. What would be your best estimate of what that cost? Erik Bentle: Right off the top of my head, I might have it down here. I don't have it on this list I've got here. Commissioner Tuley: Somebody had to give you the figure because I understand- Erik Bentle: I've got the figures, but I just don't have it on this list right here. Let's do a comparison of 4,500 feet. I would say close to maybe $28,000. Commissioner Tuley: $28,000? Erik Bentle: I might have mis-worded that while ago as an emergency. It's not like the road was completely going but it was something that was not going to last through the winter. Putting rock in it was not going to solve the problem for those people that have to drive up and down the road. The farmers drive up and down the road. The people that live out there. Commissioner Tuley: How many people live-are going to drive down that road? That was something that Councilman Wortman tried to tell me, that everybody is using that road now. Nobody used it before when it was all gravel, but now that it's only half gravel people are using it? Erik Bentle: You'd be surprised. When we were working out there the traffic. I didn't think there was that much either but there was more traffic out there than what I realized. People cutting through. It's a cut through right there from Baseline to Boonville-New Harmony. Commissioner Tuley: Well, I've got other concerns about it that I won't say publically. Richard knows what they are and the attorney knows what they are too. Erik Bentle: Okay. Commissioner Tuley: It all comes back to safety now? Erik Bentle: Myself, I thought it was a safety issue. Yes, I did. Commissioner Tuley: Okay. Erik Bentle: We've been dealing with gravel roads forever. In Union Township we've got a couple left at the far north end and most of them we can repair pretty easily but this one was half into the road and coming apart. The rock was not going to stay in it. You drove it so you saw there was no shoulders out there. Commissioner Tuley: No shoulders whatsoever out there. Erik Bentle: Me and Mr. Stoll, the Engineer, have already discussed that trying to do something with the shoulders. Commissioner Tuley: You discussed that before or after the decision was made? Erik Bentle: Before. Commissioner Tuley: About putting shoulders on it before it was asphalted? Erik Bentle: When we were talking about having it paved he said to start with, we need to do something about the shoulders too. Vice President Mourdock: Again, that whole discussion took place before the paving was done? Erik Bentle: Yes. Commissioner Tuley: John, is that right? Erik Bentle: Pretty sure, isn't that right, John? Commissioner Tuley: I'm sorry, I thought you were back there where you normally are. I didn't look over here. John Stoll: I don't remember talking specifically to Erik about it right before it was paved, but in the past, yeah, there were several discussions. Every time that road had been mentioned for paving one of the issues and my concerns was, and Erik's too, I believe, was the fact of the width of the road, lack of shoulders and limited right-of-way. There wasn't a whole lot we could do to really upgrade the road. Commissioner Tuley: Okay, but you don't recollect being consulted and asked if it needed to be paved this year in order to hold it together? John Stoll: I talked to Erik about it earlier today, he said we spoke about it but I don't recall a specific conversation. Commissioner Tuley: Okay. Vice President Mourdock: Okay. Anything else from the county garage tonight? Commissioner Tuley: Nope.
Vice President Mourdock: Thanks. We'll go back to our regular agenda then. Item C is Purchasing, Jerry Bryan. Is he still here? Jerry Bryan: Good evening. I've got several awards here that I'd like to bring before the commissioners. The first on is a Gas and Fuel Oil bid, APA004-2001. Last year Petroleum Traders Corporation in Ft. Wayne had the majority of this bid and then Gabe's Oil Company, locally here, had the tank wagons that go to the garage and the golf course, etc. This year, Busler's submitted the lowest responsible responsive bid and I would recommend to this body that they be awarded the contract. The total amount of this contract is $429,650. Mr. Mourdock, this is one where we use the O.P.I.S. oil price plus their margin and then they send me a weekly summary of the O.P.I.S. and I double check their pricing so that we ride with them when it goes up and we also ride with them when it goes down. So we monitor those prices very, very carefully. State Board of Accounts wants us to do it, and I want to do it to make sure we are getting the money that we are paying. Vice President Mourdock: The $429,000 isn't really a set price. It's just based on a number of units you project? Jerry Bryan: That's a guesstimate for what we will use this year. Commissioner Tuley: Jerry, who did you say had it last year? Jerry Bryan: It was split, Mr. Tuley, between Petroleum Traders out of Ft. Wayne. They had it last year and then Gabe's had the tank wagons where there's about ten different delivery spots in the city and the county where they'll run their tank wagon around like the fire departments, golf courses, etc. where they'll give two or three thousand gallons to this tank, this tank, this tank. Commissioner Tuley: Pardon me for putting on my other hat right now and asking these questions- Jerry Bryan: I know you're doing the other bid too for the School Corporation. Commissioner Tuley: So you got from Petroleum Trader's, did you get that monthly reporting that you were making reference to on the O.P.I.S. and their margin? Didn't have any trouble getting that out of them? Jerry Bryan: No. I started it two years ago and they had the bid for the last three years. They can operate on a penny a gallon because they are so large. They have millions and millions of gallons. I asked them if they were just buying the business? They said they can operate...last year they won the bid with .0179 so they got a penny and a half which is a little bit better. This year they probably took a look at their cost figures and said, "Hey, maybe we're too low for these guys." I think they caught themselves in a catch 22 here. Commissioner Tuley: You want a recommendation to award to, I think, it was Busler's you said as the low bidder, and I'll so move. Vice President Mourdock: Second and so ordered. Joe Harrison, Jr.: Jerry, did that go to the Board of Public Works? Jerry Bryan: Yes, sir. They approved it this afternoon. Joe Harrison, Jr.: That's what I wanted to know. Jerry Bryan: Moving right along here, the next item is the Surfacing Materials. I have four contractors: Jerry David Enterprises, Gohmann Asphalt, E & B Paving, and J.H. Rudolph. Again this year, I recommend to the commissioners here that we use four sources where we'll have an east side and north side city delivery and then the north side in Haubstadt. That has worked out very well for the people that use the concrete and use the hot patch to call for the lowest-or call for the bidder-or the company that's in your area for the hot patch. This is one, Mr. Mourdock, where we use the formula where hot patch had gone from $80 a ton to $180, and they were screaming like a mashed cat. We used that formula and it's in effect right now, and it has helped them somewhat. Excuse me for that terminology. Vice President Mourdock: That's alright, it's a wonderful word picture. So that terminology was a part of the bid for all four of these? Jerry Bryan: Yes, sir. Vice President Mourdock: And they all accepted that terminology? Jerry Bryan: Yes, sir. There again, I also get copies of the per ton mix because that's the basic petroleum ingredient and I'm also watching those very carefully. The State Board of Accounts was glad that we did that. We just have to monitor these prices, and who knows what's going to happen on the oil prices this year? I don't know. Commissioner Tuley: So your recommendation then is to award all four of them at unit cost? Jerry Bryan: Yes, sir. Commissioner Tuley: I'll so move at this time. Vice President Mourdock: Second and so ordered. Jerry Bryan: That was approved by BPW this afternoon. Okay, next one is Oil Products. This is two people, Busler Enterprises and Emmick Oil. Normally, I have the fellow from Henderson, Kentucky, Home Oil Company bids the thing but it got waylaid on his desk and I'm not in the habit, Pat, of calling vendors and asking them to submit their bids. I don't have time and you don't either. He just dropped the ball, so I just got two real good prices. Busler Enterprises submitted the lowest bid they had. They had the bid last year and did a good job. I always find out if we've had any complaints about their service, pricing, quality or anything, and I've had no complaints on Busler's. I'd like to recommend that we use Busler's for next year for these oil products. This is transmission fluid, hydraulic oil, the greases; Kind of the rope, soap, dope stuff for the garage. Commissioner Tuley: I'll so move with the recommendation of Mr. Bryan. Vice President Mourdock: Second and so ordered. Jerry Bryan: I'd like to table Batteries until next time, could I do that? Vice President Mourdock: Sure. Jerry Bryan: And drop down to Commercial Fueling. Commercial Fueling is the service stations that fill all the police cars, the sheriff, fire department, and all the department heads that use city vehicles. Busler's had the bid last year. They renewed it as a carry over but I felt like we should go out into the marketplace and have this thing rebid just to see what the prices are. Gabe's Oil Company submitted prices. Thornton Oil Company out of Louisville used an outfit called Fleet One and their prices were really high. Busler's submitted their prices using the O.P.I.S. again. They have a seven cent markup. They did have the bid last year and I did not have any problems. They have one...one of the rules for this bid is that you have to have two service stations open 24 hours a day to service all the police cars and the county vehicles also. So you can't have just a one service station outlet handle this bid. It's got to be somebody that can really stay open and work with you around the clock, so I recommend Busler's be awarded this bid. Commissioner Tuley: I'll move that Busler's be awarded the Commercial Fueling as recommended. Vice President Mourdock: Second and so ordered. Jerry Bryan: Approved by the BPW this afternoon also. I guess, the last thing on there, Joe, that I have is the Family and Children's Service bid. Vice President Mourdock: I think we need to move that we have a motion to open those bids. Commissioner Tuley: I'll so move at this time. Vice President Mourdock: Second and so ordered. Okay, anything else for Jerry? Commissioner Tuley: No. Thanks, Jerry. Vice President Mourdock: Did John
Stoll come back in the room or is he still outside? We'll skip John for
a moment. Tony, would you see if you can find John and we'll be back to
him momentarily?
Vice President Mourdock: We'll jump down to item E. We have a final reading of an ordinance amending speed limits in Vanderburgh County. Commissioner Tuley: I think this is the second and final reading on this particular item as outlined. I think John did a good job last week of pointing out the changes and, at this time, I will move for the approval of the ordinance amending Chapter 10.16 Section 010 of the Code of Ordinance of Vanderburgh County concerning speed limits as recommended by the county engineer. Vice President Mourdock: Okay, and this is a public hearing for this. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak about the final reading of the ordinance for amending speed limits? Seeing none, we have a motion so I will say second and so ordered. We need a roll call vote. Commissioner Tuley? Commissioner Tuley: Yes. Vice President Mourdock: And I will
vote yes.
Vice President Mourdock: Okay, item D, John Stoll. It says collecting swale at Amhearst Manor. I don't know why you're collecting swale, but let's hear what it's all about. What are you going to do with it once you collect it? John Stoll: That was the ditch that Morley and Associates was wanting to put in alongside of the Lynch Road right-of-way fence. I don't have any revised details just yet so I'll have to bring it to the next meeting. Vice President Mourdock: Okay, so we need to defer that again? John Stoll: Right.
Vice President Mourdock: With that, any group or individual wishing to address the board who's here this evening? Richard Helzerman: My name is Richard Helzerman and I've come to talk to you about the problem of overcrowding in the jail. Last week, Councilman Mourdock said that I could obtain a copy of the jail report from Tony. Tony gave me three of these reports last week. Thank you. The report titled Confinement Report dated 10/25/00 shows 301 inmates with 166 of those awaiting trial, over half. Of those 166, 106 could be released if they could raise their bond. The fact that they did not raise their bond is evidence that the bond is excessive. The Constitution of Indiana forbids excessive bond. The judges took and oath of office to support the Constitution. If the judges were true to their oath, the jail would have only 195 inmates and it would not have been overcrowded. You took an oath of office to support the Constitution. I would ask you to use whatever influence you may be able to exert upon those judges to encourage them to reduce these excessive bonds to an amount that the pre-trial detainees can reasonably be expected to raise. Since the judges are setting bonds too high to be met, the next best option would be to implement pre-trial conditional release programs. If these 106 inmates were put into a pre-trial release program, it would cost the county $636 a day according to my estimate of $6.00 per day. At $25.00 per day, it is costing you $2,560 a day. Such a program would save the county $1,924, almost $2000 a day. With these 106 gone, there would be 73 beds available to rent out to the Federal Courts. If 40 of them were filled at $40 a day, there would be an additional $1,600 a day income to the county. Thus a pre-trial conditional release program would generate a savings of $1,900 a day. An income of $1,600 a day for a net gain of $3,500 a day which is over a million, or close to a million dollars a year. In the past, the county has allowed the judges to set up these types of conditional release programs. Unfortunately, when that judge retires or gets upset with the local contractor, the program suffers. Since there are two courts and many judges, it would make more sense for the county to establish these types of programs and operate them according to written policies and procedures adopted by the commissioners and funded by the Council. Attached to this statement are the following: Former Berlin Wall Guard Guilty of Manslaughter, quotes from the Constitution, quotes from the 1984 agreement with the Federal Court, copy of jail rules and regulations about classifications, article stating that jail classification rules are not enforced, the jail inspection report, the PMSI Executive Summary Report, and an overcrowding article. You're part of a system that is denying fundamental human rights to at least 301 people by forcing them into an unsafe jail. If you would keep your oath of office and support their Constitutional rights, 106 of the 301 could have been released and the jail could have been safer. Even though you do not have direct control over the judges and sheriff, you can express your opinions and offer your support to the strategic implementation of pre-trial release programs that are the only hope of solving the overcrowding problem soon. Now here's an article from the August 22 local paper, page A5. A former Berlin guard found guilty of manslaughter. It says among those killed under his command. He did not kill them, but the people under his command killed them. Now, this killing was done according to German law, but it was against human rights. When the government changed, this fellow was held accountable for those people killed under his command even though he didn't kill them. Now, the situation you have in Indiana, the Constitution forbids excessive bail, but the laws of Indiana allow the judge to set what's a reasonable bail and they are setting them unconstitutionally too high. So your situation is close to this particular one. On the next page, I have the oath or affirmation of office. This is Article 15 of the Constitution, Section four. Every person elected or appointed to an office under this Constitution shall, before entering these duties, take an oath or affirmation to support the Constitution of this State and of the United States. Section 16 of the Indiana Constitution says that excessive bail shall not be required. The next page, I have a copy of a paragraph from the 1984 agreement that the county made with the Federal Courts to keep the courts from passing some rule to enforce or to end the overcrowding. It says in the defendants' agreement that in any overflow situation, aggressive or violent inmates of all sexes will be identified and segregated from the non-violent, non-aggressive inmates to the best of the defendants' abilities. On the next page is a copy of the rules and regulations of the jail that in your answer to the last Federal suit, you said that every inmate receives a copy of. Page seven, Classification. Inmates shall be classified as middle, medium, or maximum security risks. Two, inmates shall be classified and segregated according to age and sex. Three, jail officials shall use their best efforts to maintain the classifications and segregation. On the next page there is an article from the Courier from January 29, 2000. Man arrested in child support case spends a scarey night in jail. I thought I might be killed was the lower headline. The sheriff's department officials said there are not enough jail cells to keep different classes of inmates separated. Here's a man who was afraid he was going to be killed because there was not separation. The next page is a copy of the Vanderburgh County Jail report by the state inspector. At the bottom, it says that overcrowding is so severe at times as to be particularly unsafe for staff. Now notice that it's not just the prisoners here, it's unsafe for the staff. The staff are your employees and you are responsible for their safety. It's unsafe for the staff and generally inhuman for the inmates. We do not recommend the continued use of this jail in an overcrowded situation. Next page, I have a copy of your PMSI report. At the bottom it says, PMSI recommends the courts strategically plan to implement pre-trial conditional release programs. You paid $100,000 and they told you this is what you need to do, and I would hope that you would do it. The last page, I found this very interesting. Overcrowding disappearing at the county jail. This is Thursday, March 19, 1998, when the county first appointed the Blue Ribbon Jail Committee. They looked at the problem and said the problem is there's too many people, pre-trial, not being released. The bail is too high. The bond is too high so. there's too many people there. When they had that public attention and everybody was looking at it, you hired two people to look over all those things. All of a sudden, the populous of the jail went down. I've underlined here, "Suddenly within a month or six weeks or so, our jail population is down. I don't know why. Jail figures for February 1 through yesterday show a peak inmate population of 289 on February 1 dropping to a low of 212 on March 4th. Within four weeks it went down to 212, way below the maximum of 256. In the last 30-40 days, the population has significantly dropped Young said. Young is now the Federal Judge in charge of solving this problem. Young said also that some judges may be looking a little closer at setting the level of the bonds. Thank you. Vice President Mourdock: Okay, thank
you. Anyone else wishing to address the commission this evening?
Vice President Mourdock: County Engineer, John Stoll. John Stoll: First, I'd like to request authorization for the County Attorney to proceed with condemnation for parcels number two and number twenty-three on the Burkhardt Road project. Parcel two was owned by the Scales Brothers and parcel twenty-three is owned by Albert Scales. Attempts to secure those parcels have come up empty and I forwarded the files to Joe's office for him to proceed with filing the condemnation. Commissioner Tuley: I'm sorry, I was sitting here reading something. Okay, to begin condemnation for the two properties? John Stoll: Yeah, parcel two and parcel twenty-three. Commissioner Tuley: I'll so move. Vice President Mourdock: Second and so ordered. John Stoll: Next, on Burkhardt Road as well, on parcel nineteen we originally made an offer of $1,050 for the property we were acquiring. Included in that was a fence. The property owner disputed the amount of money that was in that for the fence replacement so the consultants went out and got some revised figures. Now they are recommending that we offer $2,042 because the fence cost did show that they were higher than what was previously offered. Commissioner Tuley: I'll so move for the change in parcel nineteen as recommended. Vice President Mourdock: Second and so ordered. John Stoll: Next, I'd like to recommend that the county accept streets in Vanderburgh Industrial Park Subdivision. This is 2,076 feet of Foundation Avenue, 1,020 feet of Foundation Boulevard, and 1,020 feet of Foundation Drive. Commissioner Tuley: I'll move the county accept the roads in Vanderburgh Industrial Park Subdivision as recommended by the engineer. Vice President Mourdock: Second and so ordered. John Stoll: Next, on Vanderburgh Industrial Park project, the Industrial Foundation is requesting an encroachment agreement approval for installing a sign in the median out at Foundation Boulevard and Highway 57. What they are proposing, the sign would be 333 inches long by 253 inches high. Vice President Mourdock: Let me understand, they're again asking for this encroachment to put in a sign on our right-of-way? John Stoll: Right. It just says Vanderburgh Industrial Park with their logo on it. Vice President Mourdock: Does this encroachment agreement include all the necessary legalisms of liability and indemnification? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yes. John Stoll: Yes. Commissioner Tuley: I'll move approval at this time then. Vice President Mourdock: I will second and so order. John Stoll: Next, I've got a Notice to Bidders for contract number VC00-11-02, the Boonville-New Harmony Road/Schlensker Ditch Sanitary Sewer. This is for the sewer that the county committed to a couple of years ago that would run from the Schlensker Ditch lift station that was installed as part of the Daylight Sewer. This is the gravity sewer that runs south off that lift station back to the 17 homeowners who were opposing the IDEM permit for the Daylight Sewer. This will set a manhole. This will get the manhole to the northwest corner of 57 and Boonville-New Harmony. From there on, they would have to do a Barrett Law project to extend it to serve their individual houses. Vice President Mourdock: Do we know if they are starting that process? John Stoll: Do not know. Vice President Mourdock: This is back in to Bohemia Drive or something? John Stoll: Bohannan. The easements were finally acquired and that's what's been holding up this project for quite some time. That's really it. There was really no other issue. Commissioner Tuley: You need a motion then to approve it? John Stoll: Notice to Bidders for advertisement. Commissioner Tuley: I'll so move. Vice President Mourdock: Second and so ordered. Jane has the signature file or Tony. See Jane panic. John Stoll: Next, I've received a supplemental agreement from Bernardin Lochmueller for their inspection services on the Fulton Avenue Bridge. The amount of that agreement is $83,071 of which fifty percent will be the county's cost. I've forwarded a draft of the agreement to Joe Harrison for his review. The agreement doesn't require our commissioners' signatures at this point, but subject to Joe's review and approval, I'd just like to be able to forward that to INDOT if that's okay with you. The way that process works on those construction inspection agreements is the agreement must be reviewed by INDOT before any county official signs it. Once Joe's okay with it, I'd send it to INDOT. They would review it and send it back down here for signatures at a later date. Commissioner Tuley: Move approval. Vice President Mourdock: Second and so ordered. John Stoll: The last item that I've got is a request for your approval to proceed with soliciting quotes from contractors for the removal of the bridge on Boonville-New Harmony Road. This bridge is out at the southeast quadrant of Boonville-New Harmony and I-164 where the old portion of Boonville-New Harmony Road got cut off by the interstate project. The bridge is not necessary, it's in poor condition, and it's recommended for removal by the bridge inventory report. What we were going to do since the drainage area has been significantly modified by the interstate project, is remove the bridge and then put in a 36 inch pipe to handle the flow that would continue to go through there. Commissioner Tuley: Move approval. Vice President Mourdock: Before I second, how much is that going to cost and is it really worth it? John Stoll: It's- Vice President Mourdock: We're not vacating our old right-of-way correct? John Stoll: I wish we could, but the property owner would have to petition us to do that. We were going to do it for safety reasons mainly. The bridge in it's current condition, since it's documented through the inventory that it shouldn't be there and it's in poor condition, if somebody was out there and had an accident, we are kind of concerned that it would create a liability situation. We are estimating that it will be under $25,000. Vice President Mourdock: Still a whole lot of money even under $25,000. Is it just a steel bridge? John Stoll: Yes. It's got a steel guardrail on it. Nothing that meets current standards. The road is in terrible shape as far as condition wise. It's been patched and we're not going to go back and put in any current standard 29 foot road. We're just going to match what's out there with basically rock. Vice President Mourdock: Your request is to put it out to bid as opposed to doing it ourselves? John Stoll: We are going to get quotes on it rather than put it out for bid, since it's under $25,000. Commissioner Tuley: I'm still okay with my motion. Vice President Mourdock: Okay, I'll say second and so ordered. John Stoll: It's been recommended in the past, and we've budgeted some money for it for this year, that's why we are bringing it up at this time. Vice President Mourdock: Okay. You didn't have anything else, correct? John Stoll: No. Vice President Mourdock: First of all, I would note for the record that John submitted to us his weekly update on the Fulton Bridge and also gave us two letters here that we had spoken of previously. One to Ralph Myers and one to Harlan Batteiger. Did you get a chance to look at those, Pat? Commissioner Tuley: No, I'm sorry, I didn't. Vice President Mourdock: I just had the originals here. I don't know if you want to take a look at them. Commissioner Tuley: I'm sorry, I did see the one to Mr. Batteiger. I saw the draft on that one. I didn't have a problem with it. Vice President Mourdock: I just wanted to add them to the consent items. Commissioner Tuley: We'll just move to add them to the consent items. That would be fine. Vice President Mourdock: I'll say
second and so ordered then that we add those to the consent items.
John Stoll: If you haven't had a chance to review it, if you want any changes let me know and I can get it taken care of. Vice President Mourdock: I read the one and haven't yet thoroughly read that one but believe it's in the context of what you and I had previously discussed. John Stoll: Right. They need to take care of some situations, their own conditions, before we proceed with spending any county money on their problem. The other one that you asked about out on Elmridge. We drafted a temporary right-of-way form that Joe (tape flipped to side 2). We're going to try to get the property owners to sign off on that then we'll proceed with that project as well. Vice President Mourdock: Okay, very good. Anything else? Commissioner Tuley: Not for John. Jane Laib: John, did you address the Bunner warranty deed? Was that something we were going to do tonight or was that something we were waiting on? J.P. brought that to me and I thought we were going to do that tonight. Vice President Mourdock: Do we need
to wait on you, John, or should we go on?
Vice President Mourdock: Next up then is the County Attorney. Joe Harrison, Jr.: The only thing I have is the reading of the one bid that was submitted concerning the transportation for the Office of Family and Children's Service. There was one bid submitted. It was submitted by River City Yellow Cab of Evansville, Indiana. I think I'll just read their bid submission. They are proposing $9.00 for up to four passengers per one way trip from a point in Vanderburgh County to another point in Vanderburgh County. Secondly, they are proposing $18.00 for a round trip in Vanderburgh County which takes less than an hour. Third, $4.50 for each in-route stop to drop off or pick up additional passengers. Fourth, $1.25 per mile for an out of county trip plus $9.00. Lastly, $2.00 for each trip which is canceled after such trip has been dispatched to the person's residence or point of pick up. I would ask that you take these under advisement or this proposal under advisement. Jerry Bryan: Joe, a quick question? I go to the Board of Public Works and I go to all their meetings, and it just occurred to me that the announcement they made, although it's election year time, when they got those federal funds for the county and the city for transportation services, you'll recall that the city knocked off that bus system out there and that increased this type of service that the county had to do. I would think that some of those monies that are coming back into the county and the city from the federal government would that kind of decrease and help the load on services like this? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Well, you'd think, but I don't know. Jerry Bryan: Maybe the trickle down effect doesn't get there. Maybe it sounds good, but it doesn't really work? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yeah. I doubt if we are realizing anything from that but we could. I don't know. I would ask that you take a look at this and review it and get back to us at the next meeting concerning this particular proposal. Jerry Bryan: That would be fine. Thank you. Vice President Mourdock: Certainly if there is, in fact, a change of conditions, there's nothing in soliciting the bid that obligates us to execute the document so we could always rebid it if, in fact, those changes are valid. Jerry Bryan: Right. Okay. Commissioner Tuley: I'll move that we take that under advisement and wait for Mr. Bryan to report back to the board. Vice President Mourdock: And I will
second and so order.
John Stoll: The other item that Jane was talking about is there is a deed for the commissioners to accept for parcel 48 on Burkhardt Road in conjunction with the claim form for the payment for that right-of-way. This is the Bunner parcel and there's no signature lines or anything. It just needs to be officially accepted by the commissioners. Vice President Mourdock: Is there a motion then that we accept that deed as referenced? Commissioner Tuley: So moved. Vice President Mourdock: I'll say
second and so ordered.
Vice President Mourdock: Tony Greubel, Superintendent of Buildings, do you have anything? Tony Greubel: The county auditor wants to declare several pieces of office equipment surplused from a calculator to a Pentium computer which is obsolete. Then in your direction, I arranged a meeting for you and the county attorney to meet with Steve Perry with the Youth Care Center on Thursday at 4:00 p.m., if that's okay? Vice President Mourdock: Does that work for you, Joe? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yeah, that's fine. Where? Tony Greubel: Here in the Commission Office. Vice President Mourdock: That's pursuant with what we talked of last week as far as options with the Youth Care. Okay. Tony Greubel: That's all I have. Vice President Mourdock: I guess, we need a motion to accept those items as surplus then, Pat. Commissioner Tuley: I'll so move. Vice President Mourdock: And second
and so ordered.
Vice President Mourdock: And Burdette Park, Steve Craig. Steve Craig: Good evening, Steve Craig, Manager of Burdette Park. First thing I've got is the Discovery Lodge site work is coming along well. The lake is finished and we are waiting for some rain to start filling it up. All the seed and fertilizer is down. They still have some work to do on the road that's going through it, and the contractor poured the first retaining wall today with the intent to have them all poured by the end of the week. That's where we're at right now on the O'Day Discovery Lodge. Then you got my work sheets. Vice President Mourdock: I've got to ask, in your O'Day Discovery Lodge report you said the lake has been dug and fish attractors have been installed. What is that, bait? What is a fish attractor? Steve Craig: They were large 15 inch PVC pipes that Mike Wathen and Otis said we should put in there and cut holes in them. Then the fish, when they have their small ones, they can hide in there and it's a place for the fish to survive in a new lake like that. Vice President Mourdock: Okay. Live and learn. I know there's some folks, or at least I think there's some folks, in the audience tonight that are interested in the subject that we've spoken of the last couple of weeks. I don't know if you want to lead that off, or Pat if you want to start? We do have some information. We had asked for the minutes of the meeting back in 1997 which Jane provided for us, and Tony had also provided the letter that this board had signed on August 18, 1997, regarding the policies that were put into place at that time regarding how long stays would be. I'll just note for the record that in that letter of August 18th 1997, what the board agreed to was five spaces on row one which would be an unlimited time stay. Eight spaces on rows one and two that would be limited to a six month stay. And fifteen spaces on rows three and five which would be limited to less than a six month stay. So, Pat? Commissioner Tuley: I think what we were trying to just ask is what we did in '97 is that something we want to continue? I think we've asked Steve to put some numbers together and talking with Steve this afternoon, I think he's got some numbers that he got late this afternoon and probably has a formal report that he could give to us at our next meeting. Vice President Mourdock: Alright. Steve Craig: I got them jotted down but, like he said, I don't have them in a report. Vice President Mourdock: And, of course, we couldn't plan on Bettye Lou's absence for tonight, but I know she wants to be part of that discussion as well. I feel badly for the couple folks that have come to talk about this issue. The microphone is open to you if, in fact, you would like to address the board with your concerns. If you would please state your name and address. Harold Long: My name is Harold Long on Lot 13 at Burdette Park. It's a scarey situation for us because that would put us out of our district for my daughter to go to school. It would probably cause an overwhelming financial burden on me too, to look for a new home or rental place. I was just wondering if the figures are coming out right, which you've just said, what I figured was by our three years of staying there, which we've been there three years, it doesn't bother us with the trailer. I make a good living. I could afford a home, but at forty years old I don't need to get myself trapped into a big burden. Our situation was a flood. There's just a variety of retired people out there. In the three years that I've been there, we've never seen an overcrowding of the lots. We've never seen an abundance of people staying there. There's probably six to eight days where it even gets close to crowded. I was just wondering if moving us off the lot is going to cause any type of revenue for Vanderburgh County? I've listened to you all talk about shortage of funds, but I guarantee you that ours has been a help to the county with us staying up there. I'm just wondering why suddenly it seems to be a big thing of moving us off. I understand certain rules and regulations. We live by them. Our only rule that we've broken is longevity. I'm just wondering now since there's not too many areas that would take RV's. Our situation was a flood situation which took the government three years to handle our flood situation back in '97. It took three years. I was not about to get a second mortgage by paying on the house that I owned down on Old Henderson Road. I was not going to get myself into a lease because the government was taking their time on settling our problem. We waited it out three years. We lost money, rents went up, mortgage went up, everything has gone up. For me, at forty, to catch up and buy a new home would be impossible with a family. I've heard that we could be put on the Fannie Mae Program or that program where they help you out in financing homes and stuff. I keep wondering, we can go through that program and spend $15,000 of the government's money on that program for us to get a home or just let us sit and pay our dues. We aren't asking nothing out of the government. Most of the people are retired and take care of the park and cause no problems. It just seems to be a big issue and makes some people worry. That's basically what I want to contribute to you because it doesn't seem like such a big situation. It just doesn't. Vice President Mourdock: Thank you, Mr. Long. Pat, do you want to respond to that? Commissioner Tuley: Actually, please don't go away because something you said just...you make a good living- Harold Long: I think I make a good living. I make a good, fair living. But for me to worry about retirement and I've raised three kids already. That's a hand hold in itself. I've never made a great lot of money until now. I've worked 68 hours a week for all my life for 18 years at the same spot. I pay my taxes and I've done all that. It's the fact that I don't need to be put on a government program. I don't want to get on a program. If I'm going to get a home, I'd like to pay for it myself. I would like to raise the money myself. In the situation we're in right now, we save money and have a reasonable life. Not stress free, you still have certain problems like medical and all that stuff, but I can't see where the government can see by putting me on the Fannie Mae Program or causing me to get a rental place or to cause me to get a loan for a home to pay the maintenance cost...I'm not denying that all who do it don't deserve it. I'm not denying it at all. I did for 18 years. I lived down there without asking the government for any help for our situation. When they put the codes on the house and made it hard to keep our house and made it hard to sell because it's in a flood zone area, I have to take what they gave me. We came out with nothing hardly at all. Commissioner Tuley: Is it you intent to ever move out of the park? Harold Long: Well, my daughter is 13 years old and I was hoping that she would go through school. In our situation, we take it one step at a time and see how it goes. She's 13 years old and that's five years. I'd like to see what's going on down the road. I can't guarantee my future. If I get on the Fannie Mae Program and lose my job and then I lose my home. I'm the average person. I live on the average means. What's my income? What's next week? I've raised three kids and I've barely survived through those years down there. So yeah, we have a little break right now and we're enjoying it. We don't do any damage to the park. I clean the park up every morning when I walk my dog. Steve will testify to that. I help keep the park clean. Take a look at the figures, I can't see where we are a burden. Somebody asked me today if I was a burden on the taxpayers? How can I be? I pay rent, $327 for a lot and I pay my taxes. I'm not asking nothing out of the government either, but it seems to be an issue to push some of the people who travel through here and stay at a lot here and there. Older people stay there the majority of the time. Eventually they'll need a place. I don't know what longevity is all about and what the big deal is? Commissioner Tuley: I think what we are grappling with is the goal of the park in terms of the campground. Is it to be a campground or, in essence, to become a trailer park? I think that's what we're grappling with. Harold Long: I don't think I see the essence of becoming a trailer park. I've seen trailer parks and I don't think you have the potential of becoming a real place. They seem to hold the rules and regulations pretty well. They force whoever causes problems out. Everything's been fine. We've never seen any major trouble whatsoever over there. As long as people are reasonable clean and keeping everything nice and clean and helping out the situation with income. Take a look at the figures. It doesn't make a lot of income off camping either off the whole year. We see it, we watch it. Commissioner Tuley: I think what we're grappling with though is, if we have five or six people who want to live up there permanently- Harold Long: I think it's all based on the retired people because where they settle and after awhile you travel around and you hurt and need a place to stay awhile. Maybe that could be a problem for some people that don't understand that. I don't know. For us, our situation is what it is. I'm not saying that we're going to stay there forever, I truly doubt that. My intention is not to do that, but to make it and let my daughter raise up in the school district that we've been uprooted- Commissioner Tuley: At 13 what does that make her? An eighth grader? Seventh grader? So that must be Perry Heights? Harold Long: There's property, we
watch property, but we've watched property skyrocket for us to try and
catch up. We want to save the money. We don't have the money right now.
Take a look at my record. I've never paid anything. I've paid everything
off. I've never borrowed too much. I've never asked hardly much out of
the government at all in our situation down there. Thirty-three high waters
and two floods. I survived down there and I'd be happy to stay down there,
but they made it hard on us to sell the place eventually down the road
for some type of investment. Even though we knew that, but regulations,
I don't know. I try not to get much into that after three years. It gets
tiresome.
Commissioner Tuley: We're just looking at it right now. Harold Long: I understand. Commissioner Tuley: I've been through there a couple of times this year, and what started this discussion three years ago was the way some people kept their property. Harold Long: I've seen some of it and I agree with it, but take a look at us and a variety of some of the other people. Commissioner Tuley: When it really becomes to look like someone is taking up permanent residence, and I've seen your place and believe you me, yours doesn't look like that. You guys keep your place nice. I've been by it and I've seen the dog on the chain when the dog's outside. It's not allowed to roam free. The dog I saw up there didn't make any noise or cause any problems. The question comes back then, how many of those sites are we going to allow? If any? How many are going to maintain and keep a place like you keep yours? Harold Long: I hope it goes our way. Commissioner Tuley: Right now we're just taking a look at it. We're not trying to scare you or whatever, but it goes back and it was truly intended to be a campground and it truly has become your homesite is what it's become. Harold Long: A homestead for temporary times. I'd like to have an answer for you but I can't. Not at this time. We had a three year plan based on the government the first time when they came up with the flood program. We waited three years for an answer on the insurance program and wondered why they were going to deduct the insurance money from our overall sale of the house? They managed to do that. Once you take $28,000 out of $44,000 that leaves nothing. Once you pay the mortgage off it leaves only $2,000 for us to move out on and supposedly be happy about. I had $2,000 after 18 years of putting time in there. Yeah, I'm worried because we're settled in and we're at a good pace. We didn't think we were really causing any major problems. Vice President Mourdock: Mr. Long, you probably said it but I didn't catch it. When did you first move in the park? Harold Long: Around the end of '96 or around '97. That's when the government decided...we went through an eight month spree and they finally decided to say hey, look we're going to bring a program in. Then they brought in a program and I decided to work overtime. I've always worked 68 hours a week. So they took the '96 income and I work hard and that penalized me in the one program where we would have made a decent money from the house. Well, they waited two years to put us in another program just, I guess, to keep us quiet or keep it going. We waited two years. What were we suppose to do for three years? It got settled last year, finally. Vice President Mourdock: As you heard me say at the outset, I know Commissioner Jerrel wants to be involved with this discussion as she was at the original one. Again, I apologize that she couldn't be here this evening. I think it's appropriate that we carry this discussion forward to next week. Commissioner Tuley: Actually two weeks because we won't be meeting next week. I think you're right, Commissioner Jerrel was involved in the discussion that you eluded to back in '96 or '97. Unfortunately, like you said, we didn't know until late this afternoon for certain that she wasn't going to be here tonight. I think we should continue this and Steve will, at that time, get us some facts and figures. I don't know so much if it comes down to strictly finances. It becomes what the park is, what the park is suppose to be, and where we're going with it. I think that's more, from my perspective, where we need to look at it from. Vice President Mourdock: For what it's worth, that's is my point of view also. That it's a philosophical discussion. It's not about who's necessarily keeping their stuff up the best, and certainly not about who's doing it the longest. It's just what is the overall vision for the park as far as what is the park meant to be? You said it well, is it gonna be a park or is it gonna be a trailer park? Okay. We appreciate your comments and you're certainly welcome to come back in two weeks. We will not meet next Monday night. Commissioner Tuley: What is that, the 13th? Yeah, the 13th. Richard Helzerman: If I may? It would appear that there's a little need for some kind of a program like this. I don't know if you have a zoning category that is for this kind of housing. It maybe that you can indicate to some private developers that you would be open to setting a zoning up for the more permanent things because there does seem to be for that. While I agree with you that that's not the purpose of it, I think the big problem is the people that live there all the time, they get possessive of it. Then the strangers coming in don't feel really welcome because they are outsiders. If everybody was an outsider, there wouldn't be that problem. It may be that you need a zoning change or category or something so that the private market could provide that need. Commissioner Tuley: Good point. Vice President Mourdock: Okay, thank you. We have also, for our review tonight, the reports from the Soil and Water Conservation District and the Ozone Officer. They're in the file, Pat. Commissioner Tuley: I'll move approval of the department head reports as submitted. Vice President Mourdock: And I will
second and so order.
Vice President Mourdock: And we have consent items which we've now amended slightly to add those two letters that I gave to Tony. Commissioner Tuley: The two letters that you spoke to will be added to the consent items and I'll also move approval. Vice President Mourdock: And I will
say second and so ordered.
Vice President Mourdock: Is there any old business before us this evening? Commissioner Tuley: I think we've
already handled it.
Vice President Mourdock: Any new business? Commissioner Tuley: None from me.
Vice President Mourdock: Is there a motion to adjourn? Commissioner Tuley: I will so move. Vice President Mourdock: Hold on. For the record, our jail update, Joe? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yes. The number this evening was 282 and that's the lowest in several months, since August. Vice President Mourdock: Very good. Commissioner Tuley: Now I'll so move for adjournment. Vice President Mourdock: And I will second and so order. Meeting was adjourned at 6:42 p.m. Employment Changes:
Travel Requests:
County Engineer:
Auditor:
Sheriff:
THOSE IN ATTENDANCE:
APPROVAL:
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Recorded and Transcribed by Jane Laib  |