OCTOBER 21, 2008

The Vanderburgh County Board of Commissioners met in session this 21st day of October at 5:00 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with President Jeff Korb presiding.

Call to Order


President Korb: Good afternoon, everybody. It is the October 21st meeting of the Vanderburgh County Board of Commissioners. Call to order. If I could please, introductions from my right.

Marissa Nichoalds: Marissa Nichoalds, Superintendent of County Buildings.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Ted Ziemer, County Attorney.

Commissioner Nix: Bill Nix, County Commissioner.

President Korb: Jeff Korb, County Commissioner.

Commissioner Tornatta: Troy Tornatta, County Commissioner.

Madelyn Grayson: Madelyn Grayson, Recording Secretary.

Joe Gries: Joe Gries, Chief Deputy Auditor.

President Korb: Join with me please in the Pledge of Allegiance.

(The Pledge of Allegiance was given.)

Permission to Award Bids:

VC08-09-01: North Green River Rd: Blankenberger Brothers

VC08-09-02: Baseline Rd. Bridge No. 203: Blankenberger Brothers

VC08-09-03: Burdette Park Drainage Repairs: Deig Brothers

VC08-09-04: Burdette Park: Rock Check Dam: Deig Brothers

VC08-09-05: Burdette Park: Lake Dredging: Deig Brothers

President Korb: The first set of action items we have this evening is the permission to award, and we’ve got multiple contracts, and these are not small ones by any stretch of the imagination. The first one is VC08-09-01, the North Green River Road to Blankenberger Brothers, Incorporated.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. Is anybody here from Blankenberger? Congratulations, and thank you. We’re excited.

Commissioner Nix: That’s not bad is it? No, no.

Commissioner Tornatta: I hope we can say the same thing in two years.

President Korb: We will. The second one is VC08-09-02, and that’s for the Baseline Road bridge project number 203 to Blankenberger Brothers, Incorporated.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. Well done. Thank you, again. The next item is VC08-09-03, Burdette Park drainage repairs to Deig Brothers Lumber and Construction Company.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. For Burdette, VC08-09-04, the Burdette Park rock dam check to Deig Brothers Lumber and Construction Company.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. The final item is VC08-09-05, the Burdette Park lake dredging to Deig Brothers Lumber and Construction Company.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. The next item–

Commissioner Tornatta: Mr. President? I’m sorry, I just wanted to make a mention that those were the lowest and most responsive bidders. We have taken those bids, and that’s what the approval was.

President Korb: Correct, and let’s take it one step further, Commissioner, and that is the fact that for Blankenberger Brothers Construction Company to be awarded this bid, they had to prove that they had the bonding capacity to handle both jobs. So, that way if there’s an issue or a problem, they have to be able to cover their rears with regards to that, and they passed those tests. I mean, that’s a huge, two contracts together at one time, and for a local corporation to be able to get that, that’s awesome.

Catholic Diocese 2008 Bond Issue


President Korb: The next item is the Catholic Diocese bond issue. Counselor Ziemer, if you would please?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: The Diocese wishes to have the county facilitate its ability to have a bond issue in the amount of $800,000, which would come from the ten million dollars that the county has allotted to it per year for bank qualified tax exempt bond issues. The county has used up all but eight hundred and about eighty six thousand dollars of that money in 2008. It has a balance then of $886,000. I’m not aware of any plans on the part of the county or any department of the county to use any of those funds for any purpose. At the end of the year they just go away and there’s a new ten million dollar allocation in 2009. So, the Diocese asked that the county facilitate their borrowing and having those bonds issued by agreeing to that. It will subsequently, if you agree to that, it will subsequently go through the Vanderburgh County Council, the Vanderburgh County Economic Development Commission, again, through the Vanderburgh County Council, and, finally, back to the Commissioners again.

President Korb: Any discussion?

Commissioner Nix: Move approval.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. Thank you, Ted. Appreciate that.

2009 Vanderburgh County Employee Health Insurance Contract Proposal

President Korb: The next one we have, the next section is contracts, agreements and leases. All have been reviewed by Ted. We have the 2009 insurance agreement. I know we have representatives here from Old National Insurance Group to explain, this is for the county insurance, if I understand this correctly. We also have County Council President, Marsha Abell, with us this evening to discuss some of her financial questions with regards to that. So, whoever would like to go first. Where I am with this, where I think we need to be as Commissioners, this is the largest line item , I think, that we budget for every year. It’s huge. Insurance is one of the trickiest, slipperiest of slopes for all of our employees. I think that we just need to have an open and honest discussion about that, and leave it where it is at the end of this discussion. So, Marsha, do you want to come up first, please? Express any concerns, applaud any kind of good things you see in the agreement.

Marsha Abell: Marsha Abell. Is this on? Now is this on?

President Korb: It is.

Marsha Abell: I’m used to it being on, since it’s always on, on my desk.

President Korb: How does that feel? I mean, I have to do this to you every now and again. It’s just kind of interesting.

Marsha Abell: I did this for eight years as Clerk. So, I’m kind of used to it.

President Korb: Okay.

Commissioner Nix: Good afternoon.

President Korb: Good afternoon.

Marsha Abell: I’m Marsha Abell, I’m the President of the Vanderburgh County Council. I have talked to representatives from ONB Insurance regarding my concerns on this health plan, and I have taken some time to compare what I have been told are like policies. I just have a few things that I would like to point out before you enter into this contract. First of all, I would like to tell you that I contacted Rick Voyles, there are 211 members of the Teamsters who are on our payroll in the county, and I thought that it was certainly unwise to attempt to enter into any type of agreement without discussing it with them. Mr. Voyles indicated that no one had bothered to call him, but they did meet with them yesterday afternoon. I spoke with Mr. Voyles earlier today, and he told me that if it is as it was explained to them, they have no problems with the insurance being changed to Welborn HMO. That’s the good news for that particular thing. The issues that I see, first of all, budgetary, we have, I am looking at a document which was prepared and handed to me by ONB Insurance which indicates the first year, the premium on this health insurance would be $11,387,501. We only budgeted $9,500,000 for health insurance. Now, I understand that some of this is, evidently, taken from townships. However, that has not been prepared, nor given to me or any other member of the County Council that I’m aware of. So, from my perspective, you are now looking at something of which you’re $1,800,000 over budget. The other thing about the $9,500,000 budget is that we received a call from ONB Insurance, or their representative, advising that the insurance would actually be 4.7 percent less than that this next year. That we have budgeted too much, and it would be like, around more like $9,100,000. This last year we received, on our insurance, a return of $485,000. If you take that $485,000 off, we’re getting below the nine million. With the one I see proposed, you’re over eleven million. So, I think there’s a big discrepancy in the funds. Again, if there are funds to come from some other offices, certainly doesn’t, rather than the General Fund, it certainly doesn’t show up to the County Council, and this Councilman is seriously concerned about you spending money you haven’t been appropriated to spend. The other thing that I am concerned about is that I have been told, by numerous people at numerous times, that the coverage is exactly the same for our employees, and I would just like to tell you a couple of things that I noticed. I compared the Anthem P.O. and the Welborn POS, which are supposed to be the same coverages, that’s my understanding, item by item, and I will give you Anthem’s first and Welborn’s second. Office services have a $10 deductible, with the other a $20 deductible, and $35 if it’s a specialist.

President Korb: Do you mean a co-pay?

Marsha Abell: Yeah, co-pay, I’m sorry. In patient maternity services, ten percent for Anthem in network, for Welborn it’s the deductible plus 20 percent. Hospital and ambulance in Anthem covered in full, in Welborn ground transportation it’s $50 plus a deductible, plus 20 percent. Air and water is $250, plus the deductible, plus 20 percent. Physical and occupational therapies, ten dollars with 60 visits in Anthem, $35 plus co-pay, plus a deductible, plus 20 percent, 40 percent visits in the network. Forty visits allowed as opposed to 60. Spinal manipulation visits, ten dollars with 12 visits in Anthem, $35 co-pay with a $750 maximum in Welborn. Speech visits, $10, 20 visits limit, $35 co-pay, plus deductible, plus 20 percent, 20 visits with Welborn. Human organ and tissue transplants covered in full with Anthem, with Welborn it is your deductible plus 80 percent. Those aren’t identical coverages. Now, they may be close, but many of our employees operate on a very close budget, and we already took a five percent increase in their salaries away from them this year. I know that you are on a deadline. I know, I realize that this is late. I would like to say that someone said to me, on the phone, they wished they had this discussion with me earlier. I couldn’t agree more. It should have been brought to my attention in June or July, so that we could have had some input into it too.

President Korb: Excuse me, Marsha, real quickly, the deductibles, are they the same, comparable, that your research–

Marsha Abell: Not all of them, no. I would be happy to leave this with you. It’s a spreadsheet–

President Korb: Okay.

Marsha Abell: –and you can look at it.

President Korb: Great. Thank you.

Commissioner Tornatta: And you went over this with the insurance administrator? Those issues?

Marsha Abell: You mean with our insurance person here?

Commissioner Tornatta: Uh-huh.

Marsha Abell: Ms. Deig?

Commissioner Tornatta: No, with the ONB people.

Marsha Abell: I sat down with the ONB people. They told me that they were identical.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, but did you go over your issues with them?

Marsha Abell: No. I didn’t have this. This is when they gave it to me was when I sat down with them. That was, I took it with me and went over it.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, because, I mean, I’m just thinking right now, the deductible is $100 and the rest is covered, and you were saying ten percent and kept going down that line. It’s $100, just as it’s always been with the Welborn HMO plan, and now Welborn Health Plans, what we call the number one tier, it’s $100 deductible. Of course, they would be able to more describe that to you. I guess, my second question–

Marsha Abell: Well, let me answer that one first.

Commissioner Tornatta: –is–

Marsha Abell: Do you want me to answer the question? Or did you just want to make a statement?

Commissioner Tornatta: No, I mean, obviously, you didn’t talk to them.

Marsha Abell: I got that information off of the document that they handed to me the day I met with them in Mr. Fluty’s office. The reason I didn’t go over it that day was because I was called the night before at about 5:00 to see if I could be at a 9:00 meeting, and I didn’t have enough time scheduled to be able to. There was never a meeting scheduled that I could have attended and spent the time with it that needed to be spent with it. I took it with me and worked on it.

Commissioner Tornatta: Well, I mean, you said you called Rick Voyles, but I don’t even know that you called the Auditor to find out what type of revenues that we’re getting from other people who are on our, and piggybacking on our insurance.

Marsha Abell: The Auditor was in the meeting.

Commissioner Tornatta: Well, then they should have told you that $11 million is not the County Council’s portion. It’s much lower than that.

Marsha Abell: Mr. Fluty said, as I said, that some of this could be coming from the township offices, but as I also said, I have not seen that drawn out. All I have is $11 million.

Commissioner Tornatta: But, he should be able to tell you, because he is the Auditor.

Marsha Abell: Well, somebody should have probably told us a long time ago–

Commissioner Nix: Joe, do you have that information?

Marsha Abell: –before budget.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Joe Gries: I don’t have that information with me, no.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

Joe Gries: But, we would have that information and be able to provide that.

Commissioner Nix: Okay.

Marsha Abell: That’s the same answer that I got a week ago last Thursday.

Commissioner Tornatta: Well, we–

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Well, I will only say that I’m always concerned about the Commissioners ever approving a contract for which there are not sufficient funds to pay the cost of the contract. I asked the Auditor specifically, and he advised me that there were funds available, over and above the nine million one, or whatever the amount you cited, Marsha, to cover the $11.3 million, if that’s what it is, premium for this contract.

President Korb: Well, and that’s the reason why when Marsha called I invited her to come. This isn’t a tug of war we’re after here. This is our largest line item, and it’s not that she has any kind of beef with ONB Insurance, ONB Insurance, because there is no beef. We just, we want to be sure that we’re getting exactly what we wanted, and that why I invited really Marsha to speak first, not to do anything but to allow then ONB to come up and say, hey, this is where we are line by line. Because here’s the deal, if ONB, they need to be able to prove to us, at least to me as a Commissioner, that we are getting an apple to an apple comparison. If we do that, then there’s no question and we’re not going to get all kinds of push back. Trust me, after getting my hand slapped for approving a $50,000 improvement at the County Garage, you better believe I’m going to ask more than just a wink and a nod question about a ten million dollar, or an eleven million dollar project.

Marsha Abell: Well, obviously, it started out with a very positive, and that was that the union people had looked at it and had no problem with it.

President Korb: You bet.

Marsha Abell: So, I’m not up here to say that this is the worst thing since sliced bread.

President Korb: Right.

Marsha Abell: I’m just here to say that I know how much was appropriated, no one has provided to this Councilman any figures to prove anything other than $11,000,387 for health insurance, and I, you are going to do what you’re going to do tonight regardless of what I say. I just want you to know that I want to be on record as saying there is not $11,387,000 in the General Fund for this. There has been no discussion given to many of the employees in this building who are very concerned about this, informational meetings where people could have gone to it and listened would have been very helpful, and I cannot imagine why we would not want our employees to be fully informed. They have to make a decision on their health insurance next week.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Commissioner Nix: Marsha, just a little history on this, Old National approached Mr. Goebel, Councilman Goebel and I early in the spring, collectively. We sat down and we started meeting with them monthly about this issue. We went from, basically, I told them I want to see something different than what we’ve got right now. We’ve tried this in the past and didn’t seem to ever work out. We were never able to really get to the bottom of what we could do to give our people the same amount of coverage, and there’s going to be differences in every coverage. Not every coverage is going to be exactly alike. You’re going to get some of them that the co-pays are going to be a little higher. You’re going to get deductibles that are lower. You’re going to get combinations of a lot of different things. So, it’s hard to compare apples to apples until you sit down and look at the whole picture. I felt like that’s what we did. Now, as far as coming to you, I guess, that’s probably a mistake. That’s probably something we should have done back a month or two, it’s taken this long, believe you me, it’s taken this long to get all this information collectively together to get to where we are right now. This is something, I tried last year, and I think Commissioner Musgrave tried it two years ago, we just couldn’t get it done. I feel comfortable that we’ve done the right thing. I’ve been told that we’ve got the money in place to do this. I understand your concern about the $11 million, I do understand that, but I’ve been told that the money is there. Also, one other point, I did not talk to Rick, directly, Rick Voyles from the Teamsters, I could not reach him the other day. I asked our staff, I don’t know if it was Kristin or Marissa, when I talked to them on the phone, to call Rick and make sure that he was at one of those meetings, to be there at the meeting. I wanted him to hear what his people heard, and I think he ended up at the Highway Garage. That’s how he got there was because I made sure that he was there to take that call. So, and Rick and I have talked about this over the last few months. He wanted to propose another plan, we looked at it, it just didn’t fit, basically, looking at carving out just the Teamsters. It wouldn’t have been a good plan for the county. So, and apologize for not getting with you any quicker than we did, but I feel like we’ve got a good thing in place here, I really do.

Marsha Abell: And you may have a good thing in place. Let me tell you that as President of the County Council, when I meet with any group, including having attended the Vectren meeting this morning, an e-mail has already been drafted to all the other members of Council. Obviously meeting with Mr. Goebel he didn’t feel it was important to tell, not only any other member of the Council, but also the President of the Council, and that is absolutely not the way to run any organization. I’m glad Mr. Goebel knew about it. I think it’s unfortunate that he didn’t share that with six other members of the County Council, all of whom have a vote on the budget. He certainly doesn’t have the only vote on the budget.

Commissioner Nix: Can I tell you something? There’s things that I work on day in and day out that neither one of these guys know about, and the same thing goes back this way.

Marsha Abell: Well, you all run a, that’s a poor operation, Mr. Nix.

Commissioner Nix: No, it’s not, because it’s called, in our position it’s called the law.

Marsha Abell: Well, in ours it’s called doing things without the public having input.

President Korb: Okay–

Commissioner Tornatta: Well, let me just, and, I mean, I understand what you’re saying about the spring, and they keep, you, I mean, I come from a Council seat, so, we should be speaking on the same terms. We know that, how many times do figures come in, even before, and maybe minutes before we finally approve the budgets in August, maybe September. It doesn’t happen. So, for them to get the information back from Anthem, which they got back a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, and for them to put those totals together to get apples to apples for what they had versus what we had, you know, that’s the timing of it, and I don’t think, I mean, Marsha, to be real honest, I found out three weeks ago. You probably found out before I found out.

Marsha Abell: No, I don’t think so.

Commissioner Tornatta: I’m not harboring that toward any of the Commissioners because if I don’t do something, and he doesn’t do something, and Jeff doesn’t do something, we can’t reach out in a part time job to the things accomplished that we need to do. So, we each take certain sects and we get those figures and get that worked out. But, I can tell you that this has come fast and furious. We announced it on the 7th, to give people an idea of, that change was coming, to go to the website, find out more information, to set up appointments with Burdette Park, the Sheriff’s Department, and the Teamsters, to try and make sure that they were comfortable with it. Out there, talking to the Teamsters, the main thing they wanted to see, and they were ecstatic about it, was a couple of them were going to see their premium reduced from years passed. When’s the last time that’s happened since you and I have been on Council. So, I mean, I just, I don’t want it to get so skewed that we were you keeping you out, because I might have been the last one up here to find out, it might have been Jeff, because of timing, but, I mean, it’s a good thing, and from my accounting basis, and an accounting basis of being on the Council, you know, I know that there’s revenues coming in to take care of those extra dollars so we’re not above a cap, or we’re not above and forcing that tax rate to go higher because we’re doing this, and that was my main focus. So, to assure you of that, I mean, I just want to make it clear.

Marsha Abell: Well, we are not going to let the tax rate go higher, you can count on it.

President Korb: Well, I guess, my position is, I find it very curious, and I’m going to ask the ONB reps why they would pick a minority member of County Council, who is not in charge of the finances, and have negotiations with them. That makes no sense to me. My issue is not that, I could care less about that, what I care about is our employees that we have, are they going to be getting the exact same thing? Here’s my question, because we had Humana stand up here before us, less than a year ago, making us a promise that insurance for retirees from Vanderburgh County would be not charged at all. Great, that’s fine. I got that. My question at the time was, are you sure you can do it for free? Well, they’re here tonight to tell us that it’s no longer free. It’s now going to cost the retiree $30 a year. So, I’m going to ask ONB the same hard questions. It’s a great deal. I’ve appreciated their going out and getting quotes from Anthem and putting all of that together, but I’ve got some hard questions for them, and hopefully they’ll be able to answer them. That’s why I’ve asked you to come to present your concerns, because they’re legitimate, they are very legitimate. We’re adults, we’re not worried about who talked to who. That’s behind us. Now, it’s like, is this the best thing for us?

Marsha Abell: Well, my concerns regarding the coverage have nothing to do with me. They have to do with all the comments–

President Korb: Absolutely.

Marsha Abell: –that have been echoed throughout this building–

President Korb: Yep.

Marsha Abell: –by people who have no idea what’s going in here, but they’re very, very concerned about their health insurance.

President Korb: Yeah.

Marsha Abell: There are many of them who, that’s their major thing for working here is for their health insurance.

President Korb: And that’s why the ONB people are here. So, do you have anything else?

Marsha Abell: No, I know that you’re in a time frame, and I know you’re probably going to do what you have to do this evening, but I would actually love to encourage you to not play with our employees any more. If you’ve got something that you know is going to come down the road, you don’t have to know it all, if you just know enough of it to tell them, so that they feel like they’re a part of this. One of the people at ONB Insurance said to me, at the meeting, well, no company discusses their health insurance with their employees, they just say this is what we’ve got and they give it to them. Well, their employees do not vote on the CEO, ours do. We need to pay attention to what these people have to say to us.

Commissioner Tornatta: Marsha, how much time did you think we needed to give these employees? I mean, what is your synopsis that you think that we did not do since the 7th of this month to set up meetings, to put it on websites, to send out memos to everybody?

Marsha Abell: Where are these meetings? No one seems to know there’s been any meetings.

Commissioner Tornatta: We’re meeting with the large groups, we’re sending out memos to all the groups inside the Civic Center to make sure that they know, and then we have it posted on our website, the pluses and minuses, the difference between contracts, the difference between 2008 and 2009. It’s all spelled out on our website. We announced that in the 7th meeting to make sure that we were not going to flop this on anybody, to give them ample time to ask questions, sending out memos to the different offices. I mean, that’s what we have to do, and we have to do it today, because in November we have open enrollment, as we have every year, and to take open enrollment to what the 4th, which we don’t have a meeting, so it’s the next month, we’re only giving 13 days for open enrollment. That’s just not satisfactory.

Marsha Abell: Well, that’s why I know that we’re at that time where you can’t do anything. You’ll have to do it tonight. Everybody understands that. I think that’s one of the biggest issues is that it got put to the back to where there’s nothing more that can be done. At any rate, I will leave this with you. This is an Excel worksheet of the differences.

Madelyn Grayson: Can I have that, Marsha? I’ll make copies for the Commissioners.

President Korb: That would be great. Thank you. Are you doing that now?

Madelyn Grayson: Do you want me to do it right now?

President Korb: Great. Yes, please.

Marsha Abell: I have to leave. I have another meeting, but I appreciate you letting me come.

President Korb: Thanks, Marsha. I appreciate you coming by. Okay, gentlemen, ONB, you’re up.

Norbert Niemeier: Thank you, President Korb. My name is Norbert Niemeier with ONB Insurance. I have with me, my associate, Ernie Brothers, and also CEO, Chris Reef, and Executive Marketing Director with Welborn, Janet Burnett. But, just quickly, first of all on Marsha’s comments, she’s not totally correct, eleven million three hundred and some thousand is not right. Secondly, we were asked, from the get go, first of all by Commissioner Nix, to take the approach he announced about. We were called to a meeting in George Fithian’s office, Lisa Acobert and the Mayor asked that we could look at county-city combined. Is there benefits if we did the health insurance plans for both together? That’s kind of what started this whole deal. Bill Fluty was in the meeting, and Sandie Deig was supposed to be in the meeting and she was on vacation that week. Maybe that was the contact with the County Council that didn’t take place. I don’t know, but that’s how this whole thing got started. I don’t know how many issues you want to bring up tonight as far as benefits. We’ve been back reviewing Marsha’s comments, and I’m going to turn it over to Ernie, because he’s got all the spreadsheets on it.

President Korb: Great. I’ve asked Madelyn to make us an extra copy of what Marsha just gave us so we’re all talking off the same page.

Norbert Niemeier: Sure.

Ernie Brothers: Thank you, Norb. First, Marsha, I want you to know that the one thing that is incorrect, the form that you have in the packet that shows the 50 percent coverage, that she was reading the Welborn from, that’s the incorrect form.

Marsha Abell: It’s the one you gave me.

Ernie Brothers: I know it was. That packet was wrong. There was a couple others that had the wrong form in it also.

President Korb: So, that’s not very helpful.

Ernie Brothers: Well, and I sent that, as a matter of fact, we corrected that information and sent it to Jane. Basically, what we’re talking about here, and where she’s asking about the differences, this is in option plan three, it’s the PPO option. There’s 69 total employees on that. The premium is higher. The reason they were on it in the past with Anthem is so that they had the flexibility to be able to go outside network and be in a different network, to go out of the city to a hospital. The PPO option with Welborn now has the multi-plan option in it, which allows that. So, there’s nothing different there. There’s only one difference. Like I say, the sheet that she’s got here was the incorrect one. The numbers are all the same on the two sheets. Jane’s got that, because I did send her the corrected copy.

Commissioner Tornatta: That’s Councilman Raben.

Madelyn Grayson: No, Jane Laib.

Commissioner Tornatta: Jane? Jane or James? Jane Laib, okay.

Ernie Brothers: There’s one difference in the reading of that, the two policies together, there’s one difference in the reading. That reading is, it’s simply on chiropractic care, there is 12 visits by Anthem, and Welborn is a dollar amount, it’s $750 per calendar year. Depending upon the cost of the care, if it’s $30 a month, there’s 25 visits instead of 12. That is the only difference in that plan. In the other plan that 60 percent of the employees are currently on, which is the Welborn plan, the only difference in that plan is the lifetime major med max was increased from two million to five million. That’s the only change in that plan, and that was an increase. The plan two is exactly the same. Plan two does one thing differently than plan one, plan one is a Deaconess only option, plan two is dual hospital option with Deaconess and St. Mary’s. So, actually, if anything we’ve done, we had all three companies quote for us, we had all three companies take a look at the present plans and match the plans, and they were as close as they could be on any item, the line by line match. We did have meetings Friday with Burdette, we had meetings yesterday with the County Garage, we had meetings scheduled to go to the Sheriff Department and Sheriff Williams said it wasn’t necessary. They were fine, they could explain it to them at open enrollment. So, that’s where we’ve been. So far, with the two meetings we’ve had, the one at Burdette I had a guy follow me to the door and shake hands, pat me on the back, and said you really did a good job getting our premium down and at the same time giving us a little better benefit.

President Korb: So, if the premium, you’re telling me that the $11,300,000 number is not correct?

Ernie Brothers: No, that is not correct.

President Korb: What is the correct number?

Ernie Brothers: That was, if I’m not mistaken, let me get it, $11,387,501 was a Welborn complete group take over rate, but it was a one year rate. Then they also quoted $11,045,869 for a three year rate, and the actual plan that we looked at was a five year, it was $10,819,123. So, that’s the amount that, that represents over the one year. The renewal rate, by the way, with Anthem, was $5,698,55. The Welborn renewal rate was $5,839,133, for $11,537,688 total. The ten million for the five year is exactly $719,000 less than the one year renewal rate. So, that’s the kind of savings we had by going to one carrier and taking the best they could offer.

President Korb: The other question that I have is, and we’ve had this discussion, so there’s no surprises here for you.

Ernie Brothers: Sure.

President Korb: Is that, under our current policy we are receiving a refund at the end of every year.

Ernie Brothers: Right.

President Korb: If our claims, if they fall below a specific level.

Ernie Brothers: Right.

President Korb: Marsha’s, one of Marsha’s concerns is that in the past Welborn Health Plans was not willing to grant us that refund. Are they willing now to do that?

Ernie Brothers: Yes. In the five year contract we negotiated, there was two major items that I know Chris Reef is probably ready to hang me for bending his ear so hard to get him to put in the contract, but one of those is a reimbursement agreement, and it’s got the same schedule in it that basically says that when the loss ratio reaches a certain percentage, there’s a percentage level set, anything below that the county and Welborn splits 50-50 of that return, just like basically what we’re having now, up to $750,000 per year. So, that has been added to the contract.

President Korb: And that’s only on the five year offer?

Ernie Brothers: There’s one on the five year, and there’s one on the three year.

President Korb: Okay, great. I’m so sorry to be asking all these questions.

Ernie Brothers: That’s fine. The other thing we added in that contract, there’s a ten step scale, and the reason that was added was, depending upon what the loss ratio is, there’s anything from a zero percent increase for the next year, for 2010, the next step would be two percent, and it moves up a few percent, with a maximum guarantee that there cannot be over a 19.9 percent increase. So, that’s the reason, and that part is in the five year contract, to give us, to be able to give Mr. Fluty, nine months into the policy, monthly print outs. He will be able to look at it and predict, pretty well, what rate increase we’re looking at. Now, instead of, the way we did it this past year, to have it in September, Anthem basically refuses to give us anything, they will give us an estimated renewal increase. This year, for 2009, they gave us 12 to 15 percent. I know Sandie said she plugged in 15 percent. Welborn did give us the actual rate at that time and it was a 7.5 percent increase.

Commissioner Tornatta: And in dealing with the budgets, that’s pretty big. I mean, to know where you are around budget time when you’re talking about whether you can give that extra half a percent raise, whether you can take care of certain issues, police cars–

Ernie Brothers: Right.

Commissioner Tornatta: –those types of things. I mean, you can use that money to your benefit, if you know ahead of time that the team bought into it on the insurance side, and you now have a zero or two percent or three percent raise. At budget time it’s invaluable.

President Korb: Let’s take it...I’m sorry, Bill, go ahead.

Commissioner Nix: Just so everyone understands, and most people, or everyone knows this, but the rate of increase for health insurance every year is, what would you...I hear a lot of different numbers.

Ernie Brothers: Well, we’ve had, I’ll give you an example. I’ve got a six year track record with Anthem. I’ve got two years with Welborn. The 2008 increase was 6.3 with Welborn, and 7.5 for ‘09. Back in ‘04 with Anthem is was 16.9, in ‘05 it was 3.3, in ‘06 it was 6.0, ‘07 it was 12.7 and in ‘08 it was 13.1, and in ‘09 it was 10.39. So, that’s an average of 10.4 for six years.

Commissioner Nix: Over six years? I guess, and we’ll get to that in a minute, maybe you can run back through the numbers on the savings we’re looking at by looking at a three or five year plan, but , once again, maybe we can look at that.

President Korb: My next question is, let’s talk about I’m an employee, and my deductibles, Marsha has shared with us some discrepancies, as we have talked, in the meetings that we have had is it’s going to be a seamless transition, there’s going to be, in other words, I, as an employee, or any of our employees will see no changes in doctor coverages, they will no changes in their deductibles or in their co-pays. Is that correct?

Ernie Brothers: Right, exactly.

President Korb: So, when we’re paying a ten dollar co-pay at this point, that’s going to still be a ten dollar co-pay?

Ernie Brothers: You’ll still have a ten dollar co-pay.

President Korb: Is that with both of the joint together?

Ernie Brothers: It’s with plan one and plan two. Now, plan three, being a PPO, there is a $250 deductible and it’s a little different plan.

Commissioner Nix: Because there’s not a savings of plan, in plan–

Ernie Brothers: Right, there is not.

Commissioner Nix: –(Inaudible), and that only makes sense. That’s in every plan.

Ernie Brothers: I honestly don’t think that, there would be very few of the employees that’s going to even look at that plan.

President Korb: Okay.

Ernie Brothers: In explaining it to them the last couple of days, most of those that were on it see that their rate is higher, it’s about $40 a month out of their pocket higher–

President Korb: Right.

Ernie Brothers: –to be on the PPO, and they have that option now, they can get away from paying that $250 deductible, have a ten dollar co-pay, and instead of having a 90/10 and another thousand out of the pocket while they’re in the hospital, now they have a hundred dollar hospital co-pay. So, you know, instead of being out $1,100 for anything major in the hospital, they’re out $100. In the plan that they’ve been looking at, that plan is cheaper. So, I would imagine most of those people are going to move to that plan.

Commissioner Tornatta: Ernie, you were talking about the Anthem plan, and now it’s just a hundred dollar deductible, hospital stay, with, and everything is covered after that?

Ernie Brothers: At 100 percent.

Commissioner Tornatta: But, in the Anthem, as it would be, it would be a hundred dollars and then ten percent of a thousand?

Ernie Brothers: That is plan three, and it’s the same with Welborn if they take the PPO, those 69 people.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Ernie Brothers: It’s, they would have the same deductible, they would have the ten percent out of pocket, up to $1,100 total spent, but if they take plan two or plan one, then they will have a ten dollar co-pay, a hundred dollar hospital co-pay, and then everything is paid at 100 percent.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

President Korb: So, the co-pay we’re looking at is, I’m sorry, the deductible we’re looking at for this plan is $1,100?

Ernie Brothers: They have a $250 deductible.

President Korb: Right.

Ernie Brothers: I’m sorry, they have a $250 deductible, and up to a thousand, at a 90/10 payment out of pocket–

President Korb: Okay.

Ernie Brothers: –up to $2,000 out of pocket per family.

President Korb: So, our deductible on the new plan is going to be?

Ernie Brothers: On that particular plan, on plan three, it’s the same.

President Korb: No, no, no, let’s go to plan one or two.

Ernie Brothers: Let’s say they go to one or two–

President Korb: Right.

Ernie Brothers: –they’ve got a $100 co-pay, and then it’s 100 percent coverage.

President Korb: You mean a $100 deductible?

Commissioner Tornatta: It’s a hospital stay.

Ernie Brothers: Yeah, it’s a hospital co-pay, which is basically the same as a deductible.

President Korb: But, at what point does full coverage kick in?

Ernie Brothers: After the $100.

President Korb: Okay, so, that’s if I have a hundred dollars of doctor visits–

Ernie Brothers: No, that’s just simply per hospital stay.

President Korb: Okay.

Ernie Brothers: That’s only in-hospital admission. The other things have the ten dollar co-pay, office visits and all that, just a ten dollar co-pay on each visit.

President Korb: So, the 90/10 co-pay–

Ernie Brothers: The same as it has been.

President Korb: –is, there is no deductible is what you’re saying?

Commissioner Tornatta: There’s not a 90/10. It’s just a ten dollar co-pay.

President Korb: Well, I’m just throwing that number out, because I don’t have those numbers in front of me.

Ernie Brothers: There’s not a 90/10.

President Korb: Okay. Alright.

Commissioner Tornatta: It’s ten, and everything else, and on a hospital stay it’s a hundred and everything else is taken care of.

Ernie Brothers: Right, exactly.

President Korb: Okay. The same way for prescription drugs?

Ernie Brothers: The prescription drug amounts are exactly the same as they have been in the past, on all plans.

Commissioner Nix: I guess, being the veteran member on this Commission, I’ve been here the longest, three years, going on four, we’ve never approached the county employees before about health insurance. I mean, we’ve never gone to them and said, you know, we’re looking at something different. We’ve got options, and, Marsha, the statement she made was true in effect that there are a lot of employees that they figure out, or employers, excuse me, they figure out what they can pay and they just lay it out to the employees and say here it is, take it or leave it.

Ernie Brothers: Right.

Commissioner Nix: We haven’t done that at all. We’ve, as you know, we’ve worked since early spring on this, all the different options, and it’s taken a heck of a long time to get to where we’re at right now.

Ernie Brothers: It has.

Commissioner Nix: This isn’t something that’s real simple, you wave your arms around and in two weeks you’ve got it figured out, especially when you’re looking at three different plans.

Ernie Brothers: Right.

Commissioner Nix: And looking at options. I am involved with a big, state plan, a health and welfare plan, and I understand a lot of the things that you go through, it’s a 10,000 member plan, a lot of the things you go through day in and day out to get one of these set up, or to merge one, or to look at coverages and stuff. This is a doggone good plan. This is as good a plan as about anything I’ve ever seen before, except in the olden days when insurance was cheap.

Ernie Brothers: Yeah, it’s a very good plan. The county employees are very lucky that you guys give them that type of plan, because they have very little out of pocket costs, their premium share cost is very low, and it’s, you can’t find a better product than what you’re actually putting out there.

Commissioner Nix: Another thing I like is, and there’s a comfort level with Welborn, we’re keeping all of this, or the biggest part of this right here in this local community, and that makes a big, big difference. They’re not going to farm this out to some third party company, they’re going to handle this. Correct me if I’m wrong, unless something has changed, I guess, in the last couple of weeks, that will all be handled locally.

Ernie Brothers: It is all handled here, downtown.

Commissioner Nix: So, all of that is a plus too, because it all stays right here locally, instead of ending up in Indianapolis, or Chicago, or Phoenix, or somewhere else.

Ernie Brothers: And if Chris has to hire a few more people to handle the other 40 percent that will be going into Welborn, all of those people will be here in Evansville–

Commissioner Nix: Right.

Ernie Brothers: –paying taxes here in Evansville.

Commissioner Nix: One more time, though, this, the three years I’ve been on this, we’ve never done this exercise before, we’ve basically said, and we’ve had a good plan, we felt comfortable with it like we do this one here, but we’ve said here it is, folks, you know, take which one you want. Once again, I wouldn’t have been comfortable doing it if we didn’t have a good plan. We thought it was a good idea to present this to our employees. Of course, they’ve always had options in the past, they’ve got options now.

Ernie Brothers: Right. One of the reasons why some of the ones are on the Anthem plan is because they, in the past, the Welborn plan has only been a Deaconess hospital only–

President Korb: Correct.

Ernie Brothers: –and they’ve had students away at college, and, therefore they had to come back here for any treatment, any doctors, or the hospital treatment. Now, with the multi-plan, even if they take this Deaconess only option, the only reason they would take that, it’s about six percent less than the dual hospital option, so it’s a few dollars less per month out of their pocket and a few less out of the county’s. But, now with the multi plan, there’s over 50,000 hospitals in the United States and even over seas. So, basically, regardless of where they’re going, if someone has an emergency and has to go for hospital care, they go to an in plan hospital that’s in multi plan, and they’re getting benefits paid as if they were right here at home. The same $100 co-pay and treatment, whatever it may be.

Commissioner Tornatta: One other thing that we haven’t talked about, and maybe just a 30 second excerpt on this, but talk about the person that would be actually in the building.

Ernie Brothers: Yeah, that was the last thing we mentioned, along with, and this is one of Welborn’s niches over a lot of companies, but, you know, you hear now wellness, wellness, and one of the things is Welborn intends to form a partnership with the county. In that partnership, the way to keep the claims down is to do the preventive care. This past year, they did do a fair for us over here where they did screenings, blood screenings and blood pressure and got back with the employees on exactly things that may be wrong with them, so they could have those checked. They are going to continue to do that fair. We worked that out with Gary at the Health Department, and it went very well. Another thing they are going to do, currently I know the county pays for flu shots for all employees, and I know that comes out of Gary’s office, Welborn has agreed to accept that responsibility 100 percent. So, whatever Gary’s office spends on the flu shots, it will no longer be a cost to the county. Then, the third thing, which is one of the biggies, is they will put a nurse on site, there will be schedules, so that any employee that is having difficulty with something, wants to go in and talk to them, wants to have the guidance, she will guide them through it. If an employee is diagnosed, for example, with diabetes, they have over 20 nurses over here on staff. The nurses follow up with them, answer any questions about the treatment they may be getting, and, actually, just guide them through that difficult time for them, to help them with anything they need. They also have a dietician on staff, they also have a trainer on staff. So, if someone is needing advice, one of two things, they can call over to the numbers they’ll have, or they can actually walk in the office, two blocks away, and get personal attention.

Commissioner Nix: And all those things you mentioned are things that we do not have currently?

Ernie Brothers: Exactly.

President Korb: But, you can look me in the eyes and say, Jeff, when those employees come up to you and say, doggone it, you’re going to be able to say, you know what, Jeff, that is a turn key deal, it’s better than what we’ve had, same docs, better deductibles, better availability? Because, again, I’m from the old school–

Ernie Brothers: It was funny, yesterday, at the County Garage, one of the biggest, the biggest questions we got from everyone, this was after I had laid out our presentation and we just got swamped, I mean, we had guys calling home to their wives asking him who’s the doctor we go to? All we did was stand there and look it up in the book to show them those doctors were in there.

President Korb: Good.

Ernie Brothers: Because, Welborn contracts with St. Mary’s and Deaconess both, and doctors that work in both hospitals. So, right here in Evansville, there’s only one that I know of that’s not on the list, and that was his choice. Other than that, and I’m sure Chris could tell us if there’s more than that, but I’ve only ran across one, and it just so happened in that particular doctor’s case, the guy didn’t even know if he was going to him or not. He’s been fighting this problem for three or four years. I think it was work comp related anyway, but he was just wanting to know if he went to that doctor, if he was in the plan.

President Korb: It’s just that the old Welborn Health Plans was very limiting.

Ernie Brothers: Well, you see–

President Korb: And, this is the new Welborn Health Plans, and I get that.

Ernie Brothers: Well, when it originally started it was Welborn HMO–

President Korb: Right.

Ernie Brothers: –it was Welborn Hospital. They owned the plan. Since then, Welborn Health Plans kept the name, but bought it out, and now they have branched it out to make it a very large company, and they have the carriers.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Ernie, excuse me, just one thing, I’ve heard at several meetings that this has been discussed, and I’ve heard enough that I believe it, that the benefits under this plan, for the employees, will be equal to or better than the benefits that they have had previously.

Ernie Brothers: Exactly.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Having said that, we know the various items that Marsha read off, and, I guess, they’re the things that are on this list here.

Ernie Brothers: Right.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Is there something that distinguishes what’s on here from that general statement? Or, how do you address that?

Ernie Brothers: Well, like I said, the only thing that is different on the plan, the PPO plan that she is talking about, the form she had was an old form, it was not correct. And how that got put in that packet, I guess, I have to take credit for that. But, when I saw it wasn’t correct, after our meeting the other day, I corrected those and sent them down to Jane so that she would know also that the plan matched, the plan was matched perfectly.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: So, are you just telling me that those discrepancies that she cited don’t exist?

Ernie Brothers: They’re not there. The only one difference in the two plans is the chiropractic care, and it’s $750 instead of visits.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Thank you.

President Korb: But, you can appreciate her frustration?

Ernie Brothers: Sure. Oh, I understand.

President Korb: Because, okay.

Ernie Brothers: I was frustrated too when I looked at it and said, oh, wait a minute, maybe this is not as good as I thought. Then I got to looking back in the paperwork that Janet had sent me, and noticed it did match it exactly. So, I mean, I knew that it did, but I didn’t know that one went in that packet.

President Korb: Sure. I’ve asked the questions that I want to ask. Gentlemen, you obviously are comfortable with this. Any other discussion?

Commissioner Nix: No, I just, one more time, I would just like to go over, just in a nutshell, premium increase and our one, three and five year, basically, what we would pay out at one, three and five years, and the savings. Just in one minute or less.

Ernie Brothers: Okay, the total renewal premium was $11,537,688. That was with the combined Anthem and Welborn plan. The one year rate, $11,387,501, so that’s a $150,187 savings over the combined companies. The three year plan is $11,045,869. So, that is a $491,819 dollar savings. The five year option is $10,818,123, and that is $719,565 savings. Bill, by the way, for what was budgeted at seven and a half and 15, that five year figure makes that $833,000 less than what was put in the budget for ‘09.

Commissioner Nix: So, instead of having an increase every year for our employees for health insurance for the same coverage, we’re actually having a decrease, at the end of the day.

Ernie Brothers: Exactly. There’s, the ones with, the few employees, or some of the employees that are on the Welborn plan now, are going to see a two, or three, or four dollar a month, I think seven dollars total, six or seven dollars on a family, they’re seeing a little bit of an increase from the plan they were already on. That’s because we’re adding multi plan in so that they have the option to go outside. The others that were on the Anthem plan, the majority of those, I think maybe the single, the one single rate might be a couple dollars higher, but the rest of them on that plan are saving over last year.

President Korb: We’re essentially looking at a savings of roughly $500,000 a year, if we go with the five year route?

Ernie Brothers: $719,565.

President Korb: I like to be conservative.

Ernie Brothers: Well, see, Jeff, the other thing that I want to point out, and this was part of negotiating with them, a five year contract is a long contract for them to do.

President Korb: Sure.

Ernie Brothers: As far as the county goes, you would have ways to get out of it, if there’s reasons to. If they lose more than 25 percent of their providers, you can automatically get out of the contract, don’t have to keep it, because we’ve got to have the providers. If funding gets so bad that the Council says we’ve only got six million to spend this year, and you don’t have the money, therefore you can’t approve, that you can get out of the contract, I know Ted worked on this. All it says back to Welborn is, if that would be the case and we’ve got six million, we’ll give you the opportunity to design a plan that our employees can live with for the money we’ve got to spend, as well as allow us to get quotes again from other companies. By the way, I do want to mention, I just got the quote last Friday from Anthem. It’s been that long coming in, and the only thing that they quoted me, they did not quote me a full county, fully insured plan. The only thing they quoted was a self insured plan, and that self insured premium was actually, the max premium they looked at was more than what the fully insured plan is with Welborn. So, why should the county take the risk when Welborn’s willing to take the risk and put you back on this return agreement?

President Korb: Bill and Troy, your thoughts on three versus five?

Commissioner Tornatta: I think you’ve gotta go five.

Commissioner Nix: I think so too. I mean, knowing what health, of course, health care seems like it’s playing out a little bit over the last year, so, things look like they’re getting better. But, overall, I think health care costs are going to far exceed, well, if they stay the same we’re saving money on five years, but they’re going to go up. There’s no doubt of that.

President Korb: Sure. Any additional questions? Comments?

Commissioner Tornatta: I would make a motion to go with Welborn Health Plans on their five year plan.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? I only have one comment, I appreciate you enduring our, my questions particularly and Marsha’s, but please understand, the biggest line item we have, involves all of our employees, I really appreciate the energy you’ve put into it, appreciate the fact that you went out and you solicited other bids, really appreciate the information we just received about Anthem, that’s very disconcerting, especially on a self insurance type of basis.

Ernie Brothers: Right.

Commissioner Nix: Before we close with that, there were a lot of other options beyond these three that we looked at.

President Korb: Sure.

Commissioner Nix: So, it wasn’t just about these three insurance options.

Ernie Brothers: No, we actually looked at probably eight or nine total companies together. Some were interested, some weren’t. Some wanted to know what the premium was now. I gave them the premium amount, because they just quickly penciled it in and said we can’t get there.

President Korb: Great.

Ernie Brothers: So, you know, the ones that dropped out, but we came back with the three majors, I sure didn’t want to go to some company that’s rated B minus and take a look at putting that number, a larger group with them.

President Korb: We have a motion on the floor. We have a second. Any further discussion? If not, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. Congratulations.

Commissioner Nix: Thanks, guys.

President Korb: We’re going to suspend our meeting for just a few minutes. We have got a rezoning issue that Mr. Shively has another appointment, and we are going to accommodate him with that. So, Les, come on up.

(The Commission meeting was recessed at 5:55 p.m. & resumed at 5:58 p.m.)

Superior Court: ICJI VCDRDC Grant Application

Prosecutor: ICJI Drug Task Force Grant Application

Prosecutor: Drug Task Force Memorandum of Understanding

Professional Services Agreement: Christopher Lee (Civil Forfeitures)

Humana Retiree 2009 Retiree Supplemental Agreement

Stone Tablets 2009 OCH Lease Agreement

Commissioners: Manatron Contract: Property Tax Billing System

City-County Interlocal Agreement: Locust Hill Paving Project

Vectren Reimbursement Agreement: Green River Road Project

President Korb: Okay, back now to County Commissioner business. We left off, boy I hope my ADD doesn’t kick in. Do you like that? The next thing we have is a Prosecutor Byrne Justice assistance grant application for the Day Reporting Drug Court. It renews the prior grant agreement and is for a term of one year, from January 1st of ‘09 to the end of the year.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. The next one is also for the Drug Task Force, it renews a prior grant and is for a term of one year from January of ‘09 to December of ‘09.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. The next item is the Prosecutor Drug Task Force memorandum of understanding.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Let me comment on that. I did review that contract. It required changes. I made those changes, and I did not have time to advise each Commissioner individually by e-mail as to my opinion on the contract. But, as I have revised it, I find it satisfactory for execution from a legal perspective. What it will do is allow the Prosecutor to use the services of Chris, I don’t have his name in front of me, it’s in the contract, at Kahn Dees Donovan and Kahn to do some particular services for the Prosecutor.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. The next item is the Humana retiree supplemental agreement, tabled from the ten, October 7th meeting. Is anybody here from Humana tonight?

David Quandt: Commissioners, hi, I’m David Quandt. I was here last year. I’m with Humana. I’m the Group Medicare Consultant.

President Korb: Hi, David.

David Quandt: Hi, there. With me tonight I also have several representatives from Humana that can speak directly to the retirees. So, if there’s any individuals out in the audience tonight that have questions specific to the program, I would be more than happy to have them address those on an individual basis.

President Korb: Great.

David Quandt: I’m here tonight to actually answer any questions with regards to the group Medicare 2009 renewal. With that I will open it up for discussion.

Commissioner Nix: Our concern was just the $29 a month. You know why you’re here, the $29 a month versus we were told last year there wasn’t going to be any fee. Can you explain that?

David Quandt: Sure, I would be happy to. Basically, when Medicare Advantage rolled out back in 2006, Vanderburgh County actually had access to individual private fee for service programs that had a zero premium. Not termed as free programs, but zero premium programs that were available in 2006, 2007, as well as in 2008. Humana introduced the program to the county last year as a group program, and the county actually sponsored the program as a group program, rather than having just individual coverage available on the street. Humana was pleased to offer the zero premium program last year, which included both medical and prescription drugs, to all eligible Medicare retirees through the county. At that time, the plan design proposed by Humana last year, as well as this year, happens to be the most popular program available under a group Medicare Advantage program. To answer your question specifically to why the rate actually went up, as mentioned in our discussions last year, if you’ll recall, changes to future funding from the Federal government, or if the participants medical claims increased significantly, the zero premium could increase. The program is a voluntary, community rated program. So, when claims costs exceed reimbursement Humana receives from the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, also known as CMS, changes must be made to the existing program offering. Therefore, either the benefits are decreased, or the premium is increased. Humana actually chose to make the decision of not decreasing benefits for 2009, so, instead we adjusted the county rate to a $29 premium per member, per month. Does that answer that question?

President Korb: It does. Because, basically, as I understood it last year, or earlier this year, was, this is Fed money, as long as it’s available it’s free, or it’s at no charge, but if that money dries up, which obviously it has, I’m assuming, now, it would have to go up. I’m comfortable with the 29 bucks a month, but, again, not having any desire to be controversial or confrontational with you, it’s just like, ahh, you told me free, and now it’s not.

David Quandt: Right.

President Korb: That was a problem. Is this a supplement, basically, for Medicare/Medicaid that a retiree might already have?

David Quandt: That’s a great question. Actually, not to get confused, Medicare Advantage is not a supplement to Medicare. To explain how Medicare Advantage actually works, Medicare Advantage is a program that is provided for individuals who sign up for Medicare Part A, Part B, and then when they have 80 percent of coverage, Medicare Advantage actually is Part C coverage. Part C coverage, under Medicare, says that instead of the claims going to Medicare to be administered, the claims are going to an insurance company to be administered and Medicare reimburses the insurance company in doing so. So, therefore, a Medicare supplement is another type of a product, and that product, basically, fills in the gaps of what Medicare would pay, or I should say would not pay. Those plans typically are 100 percent coverage type programs, they’re much more expensive as well.

Commissioner Nix: Look into your crystal ball and tell me what you’re going to come back for next year. It’s a legitimate question, I mean, is this going to keep on? Because, I think, our people need to know that. I mean, they need to know what to expect in the future. I know you can’t, listening to this last conversation, I know that you can’t tell for sure. If you could, I would probably hire you.

David Quandt: Well, let me just, let me at least say this to you, and that is, like I said initially, the zero premium program was available to retirees as of 2006 at a zero premium level, and that has just now changed. This is the first time that it has changed in three years, which is actually very good. However, at the same point in time to look into that crystal ball, we don’t have, as an insurance company, anyway of knowing what next year’s rates will be, at least until the Federal government lets us know what those reimbursement levels are going to be. We don’t know that information until the end of July.

Commissioner Nix: Do you know how many members we’ve taken on since this has been implemented?

David Quandt: Sure, at this point in time we currently have 27 members. I will, I do want to emphasize, that has really been all word of mouth.

President Korb: Right.

David Quandt: We’ve had several seminars where we’ve made ourselves available to the retirees, however, participation from those seminars have not been great, but we have been finding an influx of individuals who have been hearing it on the street and are coming in by the ones.

Commissioner Nix: If this is approved, how will you let our people know how this is going to take place, and how much information are you going to give them that they’ll be able to understand? And, not to say that they wouldn’t, but, you know, you can give somebody a 20 page document, they’re not going to read it. You give them something on one page that says this is the reason why, you know, is that available, is that something you can do?

David Quandt: Yes, actually, Humana takes care of all of the communications to the retirees, including an annual renewal notice.

Commissioner Nix: Are they going to need an attorney to read it?

David Quandt: No.

Commissioner Nix: Okay.

David Quandt: No, it’s going to be approximately a two page letter that they will receive.

Commissioner Nix: Okay.

David Quandt: I’m sure there’s plenty of attorneys that would like to help them read it. I do want to specify though, that with respect to changes for next year, with regards to the Medicare Advantage program, there are no medical benefit changes, there are no prescription plan design changes. However, the Federal government did change the Medicare Part D gap. That has changed, and I do want to specify that the gap in coverage right now, if you’re under the Medicare Advantage program with Humana, you’re going to be paying a co-payment on generic drugs, and a co-pay on brand name drugs, either preferred or non-preferred. Once you hit what they call the Part D gap, which is in 2008, $2,510 total out of pocket, now, in layman’s terms that means this, you and I would go to the pharmacy and we would pay ten dollars for a prescription drug coverage, however, the total cost of that drug could be $80, when $80 matches up to $2,510, under Medicare Part D it becomes the retirees responsibility to pay 100 percent of that bill. So, therefore the co-pay goes away and it becomes an $80 prescription drug coverage. Now, what is happening is, with this program, if you’re under a generic drug you will continue to pay the generic co-pay through that Part D gap. Brand name drug co-pay programs, with this program, will not change. That happens to be a 100 percent out of pocket. That’s according to how the plan is paid. However, I will tell you that Medicare has adjusted that Part D gap from $2,510 in 2008, to $2,700 in 2009, which means that the retirees then would be paying that co-pay for a longer period of time and will not hit that gap until a much longer period of time before they would have to pay that 100 percent out of pocket. Likewise, on the top side of that Part D gap, which is that 100 percent out of pocket cost per year, before you reach catastrophic coverage there is a $4,050 top cap for stop loss, so to speak, on the prescription drug coverage for 2008. That also has been adjusted. So, the cap has gone up as well to $4,350. Again, this is a change from CMS for 2009, and this applies to all Medicare Advantage plans.

President Korb: Before we all glaze over up here, I’m just going to say, from a simplistic standpoint, is this comparable to an AFLAC product, what you’re selling? What we’re agreeing to.

David Quandt: I can tell you that AFLAC does not sell group products.

President Korb: Okay.

David Quandt: So, no, this would not be similar to that.

President Korb: We have, a retiree can go out and buy an individual AFLAC product on their own, so, I guess my question is, are they going to be able to compare an apple to an apple? Because we can take care of your lack of participation by informing the employees through e-mails and through postings, we need to get serious about doing that for the retirees. We need to reduce that, as Bill has said earlier, because what you were just saying, it didn’t go over my head, but it almost did. That’s very complicated, especially for someone that is older. I know that we have some people who are retiring from service this year. So, we can help you with the communication part. The other question I have is, are you willing to commit someone to be able to say, okay, this our available time, this is when we want to do a seminar, this is where we want to have a seminar, because we are more than welcome to accommodate that here in this building, if that’s helpful to our retiring employees, which, obviously, it will be. But, have you got someone committed to be able to handle that?

David Quandt: Well, I think that’s, thank you for asking that question. Actually, we have an office right here in Evansville, but we also have an entire team of what we call Certified Group Member, Group Team Members, one of which is in the audience with me tonight to answer any individual questions, and that’s Morgan Hataway. Morgan is a group member through Humana Marketpoint. They sell, on a day to day basis, individual products such as, like say what AFLAC would sell, however they were going to sell Humana products. They are also going to be able to talk to retirees about what retirees need at a level that will not go over a retirees head. I’m here to talk to groups, as well as the county, about this issue pertaining to sponsoring a program that won’t go over your head.

President Korb: Sure.

David Quandt: So, to answer that question, in layman’s terms, I’m not the best person to sit in front of a retiree.

President Korb: You won’t be, but Morgan will be?

David Quandt: And that is why Morgan is here.

President Korb: Morgan, is that you? Just raise your hand. So, what I would like to do, is, if we pass this this evening, and that’s still up in the air, if we do that, please get with Marissa or Kristin, our administrative assistants, to schedule two or three times that are available dates for you, so we can go ahead and take care of potential meeting dates. Okay, gentlemen, any other questions?

Commissioner Nix: Just, once again, make it–

President Korb: Simpler than you just made it.

Commissioner Nix: Yeah, right.

President Korb: How about that?

Commissioner Nix: It just needs to be where people can understand it.

David Quandt: Okay. Alright, the program that you have for 2009, in the way of in terms of the benefits, will not change.

President Korb: Okay.

David Quandt: The only change is coming from the Part D program, which changes that out of pocket cost, and the Part D gap that applies to all Medicare Advantage programs, including this program.

President Korb: Sure. Any other questions for Mr. Quandt?

Commissioner Tornatta: I just don’t want to go over that again.

President Korb: I feel your pain, brother.

Commissioner Tornatta: Yeah, and the thing I like is Humana is a hospital, and AFLAC is not.

President Korb: Yeah, but AFLAC sponsors a Nationwide in the NASCAR series, and Humana does not.

Commissioner Tornatta: Oh, my bad.

Commissioner Nix: And he doesn’t look like a duck.

President Korb: He does not look like a duck.

David Quandt: I do not look like a duck.

President Korb: Okay, knock it off, you guys. Any other questions?

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. Morgan, please be sure to get with Marissa or Kristin to schedule some time. That is for the benefit of our employees and also for your benefit as well.

Commissioner Tornatta: Open enrollment is in November, and I don’t know if any of the retirees, I understand, but, I’m saying that there is normally an influx of people that have that on their brain–

President Korb: Yep.

Commissioner Tornatta: –that were employees that come in in November. So, probably a good time to shoot that out, to let them know.

President Korb: Is now. So, again, thanks for coming in.

David Quandt: Thank you.

President Korb: No offense, but we had to hold your feet to the fire, because you promised it was free, and then it’s not, and that’s confusing. So, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

David Quandt: I appreciate that. By the way, you said last year that when your mother told you that nothing was free, that you got nervous. So, I just wanted to let you know, it was always a zero premium.

Commissioner Nix: Your mom was right.

President Korb: My mom was right.

David Quandt: Mom was right.

President Korb: Mary Lee, if you’re watching this, I love you very much for that wisdom you shared with me.

David Quandt: Thank you very much.

President Korb: Thanks a lot, guys, appreciate it. The next item on the agenda is our lease agreement with Stone Tablets Consulting for office space in the Old Courthouse. This has been reviewed by Mr. Ziemer, he’s given it a thumbs up. Gentlemen, I need a first and a second.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. The next item is an agreement with Manatron. If you remember, at our last meeting this was for the Treasurer’s office for developing a new property tax billing system. Ted?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Well, I’ve sent you an e-mail describing this agreement. It is designed to provide a tax billing system for both the Auditor and the Vanderburgh County Treasurer. I don’t think I’m going to repeat everything that I’ve already told you. However, as you know, at the October 7th meeting the Commissioners approved the response of Manatron to the request for proposals over the other responders. Since that time we’ve been working with the “working group” on this contract, and that consists of Bill Fluty, and four of his assistants, and Z. Tuley, and four of her assistants, and Matt Arvay. In addition we’ve had to work with the Department of Local Government Finance attorney to be sure that we are in compliance with the standard DLGF contract, that we’re required to meet the terms of. We’ve been doing this for the last three weeks, sometimes it seemed like non-stop during the last three weeks, certainly it’s been that way yesterday and today. However, we have finally, and what we were trying to be sure of is, Manatron made many representations in their response to the request for proposal, and as they were the successful responder, the Treasurer’s office and the Auditor’s office, in particular, wanted to be sure that every representation they made in the response to the request for proposal was reflected in the contract that the county would enter into with that entity. In going through this with the “working group”, we’re now satisfied that the contract does contain all of those provisions, and while we don’t make any

represent....we don’t express any opinion on the substantive provisions of the agreement, we believe it is totally satisfactory for execution from a legal perspective.

Commissioner Tornatta: And it is tight?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: It’s tight.

President Korb: Tight as in–

Commissioner Tornatta: That’s what I wanted to hear.

President Korb: –really cool, or tight as in no way to get out of it?

Commissioner Tornatta: Air tight.

President Korb: Okay, there you go.

Commissioner Tornatta: Air tight, and that’s, as I talked to Z. Tuley, she had concerns, I’ve gotten e-mails from other Treasurer’s who have had concerns and have seen their numbers escalate when they weren’t supposed to. So, at this point I just wanted to make sure that contacts–

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I don’t think there will be any room for escalation.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay. That’s what I wanted to know. Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. The next item is an interlocal agreement with the City of Evansville for paving work at the Locust Hill Cemetery.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. The final one is a reimbursement agreement with Vectren in connection with the Green River Road project.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I don’t know whether John wants that to go today or not. Okay, yes.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

County Engineer

President Korb: Department head reports. John, do you want to come up first? If you would, just state your name and what you do.

John Stoll: John Stoll, County Engineer. The agreement you were talking about, Ted, that was an agreement between the county and INDOT, and I’m still working on that.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Okay.

John Stoll: That’s for Green River-Millersburg.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Thank you.

John Stoll: The first item that I have is a street acceptance request for Arrowood Subdivision. This covers 385 feet of Arrowood Drive, 272 feet of Arrowood Court, 811 feet of Canyon Drive, 296 feet of Sienna Court, 296 feet of Sonoma Court, and 470 feet of Arrowridge Drive. I request acceptance.

Commissioner Nix: Move approval.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

John Stoll: Then, next, also in regard to Arrowood Subdivision, I’ve got a storm sewer acceptance request. This covers 1,278 linear feet of storm sewers located outside of street rights-of-way. The developer’s fee on that will be $2,556, and I would request that you accept those storm sewers.

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

John Stoll: Then, next, I would like to go to County Council to transfer $250,000 from the Green River Road culvert account to the First Avenue Bridge account. This is what I e-mailed you all about last week. The funds in the Green River Road culvert account won’t be used because INDOT was unable to install the culvert that we had worked on due to some utility conflicts. Based on the consultant estimates, we’ll need additional money to deal with the settlement issues out on First Avenue. It’s unlikely that the First Avenue construction will take place yet this year. So, in the event that it doesn’t, we’ll just encumber that money into 2009.

Commissioner Nix: I’ve been traveling that quite a bit in the last couple months. It seems like it’s, I’m sure it’s not stabilized, but it seems like it’s settled in a little bit.

Commissioner Tornatta: Yeah, I think so.

John Stoll: It seems like the south side has.

Commissioner Tornatta: We (Inaudible) it.

Commissioner Nix: We put enough material in there, finally it will stop, huh?

John Stoll: I’ve never been able to figure it out. It seems like it slows down, and then it speeds up again. But, it seems like the south side has shown more signs of settlement than the north side has of late.

Commissioner Nix: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

John Stoll: Next, I have a sidewalk waiver request for Grant Hills South Minor Subdivision. This is located at the southeast corner of Boonville-New Harmony and 41. There are no other sidewalks out there. So, I would request approval of the sidewalk waiver.

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

John Stoll: Then, next, I have another sidewalk waiver request. This is for section four of Deerfield Sub. I would also recommend that this waiver be approved.

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

John Stoll: The next item is a street acceptance request for Metro Avenue. This is in Corressell Court Subdivision. This just covers a 96 foot extension and cul-de-sac on the north end of Metro Avenue just north of Vogel Road.

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

John Stoll: The last item is, items are, the Corps of Engineers permit application and the IDEM water quality certification application for University Parkway. I would request that you approve both of those so we can forward those on to those two agencies.

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

John Stoll: That’s all I have, unless you’ve got any questions.

President Korb: Thanks again for all your hard work on Green River Road and Baseline Road.

Commissioner Nix: Yes.

Commissioner Tornatta: Do we have the mediation for today in here?

John Stoll: Um, I’m not sure. I saw the e-mail on it, but I didn’t know if it–

Madelyn Grayson: It addressed doing that at the November 11th meeting. From Allyson Breeden?

John Stoll: For the Boeke property?

Madelyn Grayson: Yes.

John Stoll: Okay.

Commissioner Tornatta: Another successful mediation.

John Stoll: We’re winding down.

Commissioner Tornatta: We’re winding down.

President Korb: On a roll.

Commissioner Tornatta: We’re actually going to have a report, hopefully by the end of the year to just kind of distribute to the Commissioners, let them know where we are on Green River Road and on University Parkway.

President Korb: Great.

Commissioner Tornatta: So, we’re working well with our constituents.

President Korb: Good. Thanks, John. Any other department heads out there that wish to report this evening?

New Business

President Korb: New business to appear before the Commissioners this evening?

Commissioner Nix: I think we’ve got. Mike, department head?

President Korb: That’s old business.

Commissioner Nix: Oh, it is? I’m sorry. Sorry about that, get down the line.

Old Business

Mike Duckworth: I had mentioned it at the department head meeting in regards to transport of salt.

President Korb: Mike Duckworth, County Garage.

Mike Duckworth: Mike Duckworth, Highway Department. It’s not the microphone, it’s a head cold. So, excuse me for that. I would just request the Commissioners to approve a travel request upon the arrival of the salt that Mr. Ziemer so aptly got our contract executed for salt coming down on the barges. We’ve been given a window of an arrival date of between November 8th and November 25th, and we’re going to have to transport back that back to our location to store that. So, I would request ahead of time that you give me permission to do that upon its arrival.

Commissioner Nix: Now, this permission is to run trucks from Vanderburgh to Posey County and back to Vanderburgh County?

Mike Duckworth: That’s right.

Commissioner Nix: Move approval.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: You should be pleased about that, because the Chemical Equipment Company, the contractor that’s delivering the salt to us wanted either Ed Ziemer or Mike Duckworth to come to New Orleans and inspect the salt so that he could be paid in advance. So, this trip to Mt. Vernon doesn’t amount to much.

Commissioner Nix: We’re not letting him loose in New Orleans, I’m going to tell you that right now.

Commissioner Tornatta: Especially in a county truck.

Mike Duckworth: I sure don’t know what you mean by that, Mr. Nix, but I wanted that salt to be in their main drag.

Commissioner Tornatta: Who’s going to be your main salt inspector?

Mike Duckworth: I’m sorry?

Commissioner Tornatta: Who’s your main salt inspector?

Mike Duckworth: Well, me and Mr. Ziemer, Ed Ziemer will handle that. Ted takes care of the pepper.

President Korb: Goodness sakes. Come on back up, we’re ready to talk about the County Garage and the four day, ten hour a day work week.

Mike Duckworth: Back in mid-year I approached the Commissioners in regards to the consideration of trying out a four day work week, ten hour days, in an effort to save on fuel usage, as well as utility usage, looking at how that would enable us to handle work orders, whether it would enable us to increase that work or otherwise. We started in early August. We have an agreement with the Commissioners to carry that through, I believe the first part of November. I had told you at that time that I would come to you mid-October and give you some indication as to how it’s going . If you will see in the information that I’ve provided to you and for those at home if you can see this as well. I’ll try to be as brief as I can about the summary that I have of this situation so far. First of all, I want to tell you that it’s extremely difficult to compare the 2007 costs evaluation to the 2008, because we are dealing with completely different pricing in regards to amount of costs per gallon, as well as costs per kilowatt hour–

President Korb: Basically, we’re at a 30 percent increase, Mike?

Mike Duckworth: Yeah, I think that’s right. You’re looking at a difference between $2.70 a gallon and $3.44 a gallon is what we paid in the last time. Of course, that’s come down. So, as those prices fluctuate, it’s difficult for us to do the comparisons as they land. I would tell you that if you look at the chart that’s in front of you now, the gas usage in August went down, but what also skews these reports are emergency situations. Of course, we had a major wind storm in August that brought about 98 trees down in county roadways, which meant a call out on a Sunday. Then, for the two weeks thereafter, our crews went out and cleared that debris off the right-of-ways to make those extra trips.

Commissioner Tornatta: Can we get the camera on that screen. I don’t know if we’re talking to WNIN, but, there we go. Thank you.

Mike Duckworth: So, as you can tell in August we saved some. In September it was increased. Utility costs, those are costs that we look at, as you look at your Vectren bills, they base it on the month previous. So, those are, that’s information that we’re going to have to look at a different way as well. If you go to the next slide, part of what we, the assumptions that we looked at were miles traveled. In August we decreased our amount of mileage, and in September we increased it. This has to do with the fact that we had later than normal road hearings, due to cancellation a couple of times of our road hearings, so we got a later start on our paving. So, we were doing most of our paving in September of this year, as opposed to August and July of last year. So, as you can see, it’s very difficult to compare last year to this year. The next slide has to do with the kilowatt usage. We have closed on Fridays since August, but, once again, that usage has increased. The expenditures have increased as well, but the cost per kilowatt hour has increased as well. That would be chart D, that’s before you at this time. The main factor that, I don’t know if it’s your main interest, but, I think it may be county residents main interest, other than looking at the savings and the efficiency side of it, is the amount of work orders handled. If you’ll look at chart E, you will notice that in August we went from 92 completed in 2007, to 126 in 2008, and 107 in, I’m sorry 107 in September of 2007, to 218 completed in September. Now, that does include the 98, but those were done during regular work hours. As I indicated to you, I think before we can make an educated comparison, that more time needs to take place during the comparison of these work times. So, I guess, the other factors that I want to point out to you is the fact that we can’t tell how many inclement days are going to fall on Fridays. We also cannot tell how many times we would have people there working between 3:00 p.m. and 4:30, which is our extended days, which in the past we would have had to call people back in and pay them time and a half, as opposed to it being a continuation of the workday. Those are factors that cannot be described, because we have no way of predicting those times.

Commissioner Tornatta: Mike, have you done a cost comparison on just payroll?

Mike Duckworth: Well–

Commissioner Tornatta: I mean, is that possible?

Mike Duckworth: –we have not, because what we have tried to look at is overtime costs. We think our overtime costs is down, but–

Commissioner Tornatta: But, would that be in your monthly payroll?

Mike Duckworth: That would be in our monthly payroll.

Commissioner Tornatta: So, I guess what I’m thinking, is maybe, and I think this is a wonderful exercise to see what we have going, but, in that maybe what we want to do is next time we meet, or next month, whatever we feel we can do, get that comparison on payroll. You might be right, with the savings that we would have on overtime, maybe that would make up some sort of difference.

Mike Duckworth: It’s hard to tell, Troy, because the next two Friday’s may be, there may be storms, and we may have to call them out. Or, we may go Fridays for the rest of the year–

Commissioner Tornatta: Well, I think we have to put that down.

Mike Duckworth: –and not have any call outs. I mean–

Commissioner Tornatta: I think we have to put that down.

Mike Duckworth: It’s not any different than having a call out on a Saturday or a Sunday–

Commissioner Tornatta: Sure.

Mike Duckworth: –than on Friday, if it’s considered an off day.

President Korb: But, I think, for us, if you just hit that as an asterisk, and say, hey, you know, we had a call out–

Mike Duckworth: I would be glad to do that.

President Korb: –or we had something come up. That way we’ll know there was an aberration in the system.

Mike Duckworth: And, I pointed that out in regards to the work order–

President Korb: Sure.

Mike Duckworth: –and the fact that you see 98 additional work orders completed due to the wind damage.

Commissioner Tornatta: It seems like the morale is a little bit better with the four day work weeks. Even some who came to me to say, you know, what are we doing, I can’t, I think they’ve bought into it in some way, shape and form. You’re going to have a small percentage that don’t want to mess with what got them there. But, I think that from what I’ve heard, it’s been a very positive experience, and one that they would like to continue just to see, and this is during daylight savings time, I believe, but they would like to continue to see if it was worth its salt. No pun intended.

Mike Duckworth: Yeah, well, I–

President Korb: That’s coming from (Inaudible.)

Mike Duckworth: –would say that this is also intertwined in the union agreement that we are currently under negotiation with. I think that’s something that, number one, those employees would be asked the question as to how they would want to proceed, and, of course, we would want input from them and the union that represents them. But, the other thing that I would just say to you is, and a supervisors point of view here, I can tell you that more work is being completed, because our time on task is greater, and we are immobilizing our equipment less.

President Korb: Right.

Mike Duckworth: I think when you can stay on those culverts, you can stay on the weed eating and the mowing, you can stay on those kinds of things for an extended period of time during a work day, once you’ve started, I think you are going to realize more work being completed. That’s, basically, you know, the report that I have for you. I would recommend to you that we, of course, stick to our agreement and to until the end of this month. I will try to provide you with additional information, and then, I think, as Commissioner Nix, I think, has said previously in today’s meeting, there is an on-going negotiation regarding work conditions, salaries, benefits, those kinds of things, that this would enter into with Local 215, and at some point in time, I would say within the next 30 days or so, we hope to come back with some type of recommendation to the full Commission.

Commissioner Tornatta: Can I make one more recommendation? This is probably tougher than just looking at the work order. You can have a work order worth $5,000, or a work order worth $50. I know this is going to be time consuming, but if we truly want to find out what the impact is, we, A, have to do a comparison on salary. Then, I think we need to do a comparison on what the work order worth is, because, let’s say in July it was 116 in 2007, versus 112 in 2008, but we did, in 2007 we did $100,000 worth of jobs, and in 2008 we did $200,000 worth of jobs, that might be a bad comparison.

Mike Duckworth: Yeah, and I understand that some of these work orders may be a limb in the road, some of them may be a, you know, 12 inch tree in the road that takes some time to cut out and to move. So, there are different ways to compare that work, but I think the bottom line is, when county residents call and they have a work order, they want it completed whether it takes–

President Korb: Sure.

Mike Duckworth: –20 minutes or two hours.

President Korb: I think the other thing that would be helpful, Mike, going forward, from a comparison standpoint, for an apple to an apple, instead of comparing costs for fuel usage and electricity, just compare kilowatts used, therms used, gallons of gas or diesel purchased, I think that would give us a much better....this way, what we’ve seen tonight is great, but the fluctuation, I mean, you’re paying almost a dollar more then a gallon.

Mike Duckworth: That’s exactly right. So, we did, there is a comparison in there on mileage–

President Korb: Right.

Mike Duckworth: –but, again, you know, we may be sitting in one neighborhood–

President Korb: Right.

Mike Duckworth: –doing eight culverts–

President Korb: Sure.

Mike Duckworth: –for three days, and then the next week we may be going from culvert to culvert to culvert and doing a lot more driving.

Commissioner Tornatta: But, you have to also, you’re watching your miles right now because of gas.

Mike Duckworth: Exactly.

Commissioner Tornatta: So, you’re not going to be doing as many miles as you once would.

Mike Duckworth: Right.

Commissioner Tornatta: So, I think we take concrete thoughts like gallons of gas used, maybe, but, you know the demand is not as it would be, but try and find those things that we can quantify year in and year out.

Mike Duckworth: Right.

Commissioner Tornatta: Which would, obviously, be payroll and–

Mike Duckworth: Well, we’ll take another run at some comparisons. I’ll come back to you probably within the next meeting to see where we are in negotiations, and how the Commission wants to proceed.

President Korb: Well, the main concern was the degradation of services, and we have not seen that.

Mike Duckworth: Right.

President Korb: I mean, we’ve seen, obviously, from what you’re showing us here, equal or better, in terms of more work orders–

Mike Duckworth: Right.

President Korb: –which is great, and that’s basically what we were after. So, congratulations, thank you for that. Come back and see us next month.

Mike Duckworth: Okay, thank you.

President Korb: Thanks, Mike.

Public Comment

President Korb: Any public comment at this point in time from anybody in the audience, with regards to our meeting today?

Commissioner Tornatta: We have a couple.

President Korb: Yes, sir?

Commissioner Tornatta: Rob?

President Korb: You may come on up.

Commissioner Tornatta: Rob?

Rob Kerney: Okay, I wasn’t sure if it was me or somebody else.

President Korb: That’s okay. No worries.

Rob Kerney: First I want to pass out these papers. Sorry for whoever has to listen to the tape tomorrow. My name is Rob Kerney. I’m the Director of Blind Faith Ministries at Grace and Peace Lutheran Church. I have to also admit, Mr. Korb, we don’t have a car in the Nationwide series either. So, I hope that’s okay.

President Korb: That’s fine.

Rob Kerney: I tried, but I didn’t qualify.

President Korb: As long as you pray for those drivers, that’s all I care about.

Rob Kerney: Okay. We are heading up a movement to open an independent living center in Vanderburgh County that would oversee six counties, going from Posey all the way up to Perry and picking up Dubois. Independent living centers started in the 1960's at the University of California at Berkeley by a gentleman who would go to school during the day, but spend his nights in a nursing home because of his special needs because of a disability, and thought this was kind of strange for him to be good enough to go to college during the day, but not to live on his own. So, they are not a live-in facility, such as a group home or something, but actually the opposite. A center would actually find things that people with disabilities need through other services, to remain in their own home, whether it be sitters, or other types of special equipment. Evansville is the largest city in Indiana without one. As of the Rehabilitation Services Act of 1973, there is Federal funding available, once we get the doors open and up and running. We have a gentleman by the name of Al Tolbert who is coming down November the 6th to a meeting at 5:30 in this room to educate people about independent living centers and the need for one in Evansville, and the other five counties. We are, I’m just basically here to invite you to this meeting. The letters you have there tell a little bit more about what’s going on that evening and as far as the movement itself. We do currently have our by-laws being reviewed by an attorney, so that we may file the incorporation soon that we can try to find the start up money to get up and running to apply for State and Federal money. That is the point where we’re now trying to get the government officials of these six counties on line with us to kind of help get the doors open. So, I know Mr. Nix, as of November 4th, you’re on your way out, but you’re still invited to the meeting on the 6th. Mr. Winnecke will be invited via the County Council, because we’re also inviting the members of the Vanderburgh County Council. But, also, if you will look at the third page, that is the other eight centers and the counties they cover. You can see the proposed area that the Ohio Valley Independent Living Center is proposing to cover through our by-laws, and once we become incorporated. Then, the last page is just the page showing you the other centers, how they receive their money, whether it be State or Federal money. I believe the blue, the Part C, is the Federal money, and the Part B is State money, but I’m not exactly positive, off the top of my head right now. So, but, we wanted to make sure....this will become an independent agency. Blind Faith is mainly just the catalyst to get it up and running. In the early, I guess, for lack of a better word (Inaudible), Governor O’Bannon appointed me to the Indiana Council on Independent Living, and the first meeting I went to, the first thing they said to me was, when are you going to open a center in Evansville? They’ve been pushing me to do this for eight years. This is my second attempt, but now we have some other people on board with us, so, we are doing our best this time to get it up and running. So, any questions?

Commissioner Nix: Rob, just to make this public–

Rob Kerney: Yes.


Commissioner Nix: –as far as when this is going t          o take place, the, it will be here in the Civic Center, room 301?

Rob Kerney: That’s correct, the City-County Council Chambers, room 301, the Civic Center, November the 6th at 5:30 p.m. Central Standard time.

Commissioner Nix: Okay. Great.

Rob Kerney: I would also, just to kind of put a little side note on, I’ve been appointed by the Mayor to the Disability Advisory Board, or, I guess, they’re also calling it the Advisory Board on Disability Services, and I know that we are trying to get the members on there to get our first meetings up and running and would like to ask the Commissioners to kind of get a giddy up in their go to appoint their appointments to that council.

Commissioner Tornatta: We have some names submitted, and I think those went to either Kristin or Marissa.

President Korb: And they came from you, Rob?

Rob Kerney: That is correct. I submitted those names via Commissioner Tornatta, by his request of some recommendations. I was even nice enough to give you one that usually votes each party.

President Korb: Whoa, that gives me more giddy up and go, I’ll tell ya. Do you know those names off the top of your head, Rob?

Rob Kerney: Yes, Anthony Brauser, he is a person with a disability, and then Don Counts is the father of a girl with a disability. Both of them actually have graduated from the Partners in Policy program through the Governor’s Task Force for People with Disabilities. So, they are long time advocates for people with disabilities in this region.

President Korb: Have you been wise enough to already have had conversation with them that you are giving us their names?

Rob Kerney: Yes. I talked with Anthony, and Don when he heard about it, he was practically begging me to give his name to somebody.

President Korb: Great, I vote we go ahead and do it.

Commissioner Tornatta: Let’s, well, maybe we’d better make a call. No?

President Korb: That’s why I asked Rob if he’s talked to them. If Rob’s talked to them and they’ve green lighted you, I’m okay with that, but we will need contact information.

Commissioner Tornatta: That’s fine. They should have contact information.

President Korb: Do you have that, Marissa, you think?

Commissioner Tornatta: I’ll tell you what we can do, we can make a recommendation to put them on, if they want to not be on, then they can say so.

President Korb: Yeah, we’ll come back. That gives us what, gives Rob what he wants is the giddy up and go part. So, let’s go ahead and with both of those names, I need a motion please.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. Rob, congratulations. I’ve never seen anybody motivate us to act that quickly on something, period.

Rob Kerney: Well, maybe I could get you to get us a sponsor so we can get a person with a disability (Inaudible).

President Korb: Are you going to call that bumper cars, Rob? I don’t know.

Commissioner Tornatta: That meeting on 5:30 is going to be in the Kevin Winternheimer Chambers.

Commissioner Nix: There you go.

Commissioner Tornatta: The one we’re in now. So, if you did not know the building and did ask downstairs, that gives you another description.

President Korb: Rob, thanks for coming before us.

Rob Kerney: Alright, thank you very much.

President Korb: Appreciate it. Thanks for the recommendation on the Disability Board. Any other public comment? Yes, sir.

Chris Politano: Good afternoon. My name is Chris Politano. I live here in Evansville.

President Korb: Hi, Chris.

Chris Politano: Actually, as soon as I sat down and saw you all sitting up there, I realized I was at a different meeting than the one that I wanted to be at. But, what I have to talk about still applies.

President Korb: Okay.

Commissioner Nix: You must have really wanted to talk about something to listen to all that to get to this.

Chris Politano: Well, the interesting thing is that it actually helps me in showing my point, because you’ve talked about a lot of pragmatic things tonight. There are some principles behind some of those pragmatics, and I’ve been getting more involved in my understanding of government, and particularly becoming more concerned at the local, state and federal levels about erosions of liberty. There was a little op ed call to write into the paper about having check points put in here at the Civic Center. That is partly what I want to talk about tonight. But, you’ve mentioned holding feet to the fire a couple of times this evening, and partly that’s what I want to do is to encourage you all to not just get lost in the pragmatics of what you do on a day to day basis, which you do have to deal with, but to also keep those liberty things in mind. When we talk about installing something like check points, growing up as a boy, you know, what I was taught in school is that these are the things that they did in places like Russia. I’m a product of the Cold War, and that’s what they told us, you know, you have check points where you have to go through, you have to show papers, you know, you don’t have the ability to, basically, travel with freedom. This being a public building, to me that’s concerting, and I don’t know, you know, where all you all have authority on this, except for maybe talking to your other colleagues, but just to put forth those principles of liberty. One of the things that when I start to talk about this, people always say, well, you know, Chris, now it’s a post 9/11 world, and in a post 9/11 world we have to do things differently. I can imagine the founding fathers in Boston say, for instance, when the British were marching through their streets creating tyranny, that they would have understood what a post 9/11 world was like, because they were embroiled with those things on a day to day basis. But, they understood that we can’t get lost up in the pragmatics of being safe at the cost of liberty. So, for instance, Ben Franklin said, “They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Also, it goes on, of course, that if we have those things, it will be an erosion of both over time. So, just kind of putting that forth as a consideration, if you all will have any influence on those check points. The other thing, I had a discussion with a friend who’s a concealed carry permit holder, and when he found out about this, he actually asked President Abell of the Council if there would be exceptions for concealed carry permit holders? In my discussion with him, you know, that came about and just talking about infringements on second amendment rights and those things, that creates a practical disarmament of citizens who have that right. We are already infringed by the fact that we have to get fingerprinted, background check, police commissioner approval in order to get that license to carry. So, I think that when you start to do things like this, one, there’s an erosion of liberty, and when you look at that, it’s a slippery slope where it just keeps getting worse and worse. So, there isn’t necessarily an action that I want you to take, I just want you to keep in mind, as you deal with these pragmatic things that you also keep in mind principles, principles of liberty, public involvement, which is great that you have the ability for somebody like myself to just come up here and comment to those things. Studying more history, getting involved with more government, I think is a great thing, I want to promote that to other people, and that’s why I’ve taken an opportunity like this. In addition to that, I would like to invite you all to something that will kind of put teeth to both those arguments, the second amendment and the cause of liberty, there’s something called an appleseed program and shoot. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of those, but , Red Brush range is having a group of folks come in, and they are coming in November 7th and 8th , I think, which is a Saturday, Sunday. One of the things they do in this program is they realize that we’ve lost our heritage, in terms of being a nation of riflemen, people who know how to use weapons and use them responsibly. So, what has happened as we get less and less of that and put more and more of that on to the government to protect us, rather than taking that responsibility to protect ourselves, the liberties get eroded. What this program does, it takes and it teaches people how to shoot, emphasis on safety, basic skills, but it also teaches them that there’s a heritage in this country that developed based on that riflemanship, and they do history lessons during the same time that they do the teaching and instruction. So, I would invite you all to think and consider attending that. Along that line, I’ll finish with a quote that comes from Thomas Jefferson, he says, “A strong body makes the mind strong, and as to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games (Inaudible) with a ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” That comes from Thomas Jefferson’s book, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson. The really interesting thing is he was writing this to his ten year old nephew. So, it gives a concept of how we used to train the young in those things. So, I just encourage you all to be liberty minded.

President Korb: Great, thanks, Chris, for coming, appreciate it.

Chris Politano: Thank you.

President Korb: Appreciate you sitting through our meeting. Any other public comment?

Consent Items

President Korb: The only comment I’m going to have, is the consent items, then I have a comment.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve consent items.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. We will not have a meeting before the election. I encourage everyone who’s watching this, on November the 4th to go exercise your duty. Don’t care how you vote, I mean, I kind of do, we all kind of do, but we don’t. Please exercise your duty and go out and do what you are allowed to do for our country. So, thank you, and good luck with that. I need a motion–

Commissioner Tornatta: One quick mention about Burdette Park.

President Korb: Oh, sure.

Commissioner Tornatta: Go ahead. Burdette Park received an award from–

President Korb: Oh, yeah. Evansville, Operation, Keep Evansville, yeah, close enough.

Commissioner Tornatta: Yeah, anyway, they received the top award for what they do out there with floral design and with plantings and landscaping. They’ve received the award before, but there’s been quite a few years in between where they have not received the award, and we would like to just thank and commend everybody out at Burdette Park–

President Korb: Steve Craig and Aaron Alexander.

Commissioner Tornatta: –for a fine job. Congratulations.

Commissioner Nix: One other thing, the next meeting will not be until November the 11th. There’s a lot of people that tune in, and sometimes, for the most part it’s in the paper on Monday, but our regular, next scheduled meeting is November the 11th.

President Korb: Correct. Good deal.

Commissioner Nix: Motion to adjourn.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved. Second.

President Korb: All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

(The meeting was adjourned at 6:50 p.m.)



Approval of the October 7, 2008 Commission Meeting Minutes.

Approval of the October 14, 2008 Special Commission Meeting Minutes.

Bernardin Lochmueller: University Parkway Phases II & III Update.

Postage Appropriation Request.

Building Authority: Request for 12 surplused computers for use at the Centre.

Hillcrest Washington Youth Home: 3rd Quarter Fees.

Keep Evansville Beautiful Letter to INDOT: Trees on Highway 41.

Evansville ARC September 2008 Meeting Minutes.

October 7, 2008 Department Head Meeting Minutes.

Employment Changes:

Recorder (1)                             County Highway (1)                  County Clerk (1)

Knight Assessor (1)                  Burdette Park (2)                      Circuit Court (1)

Election Office (2)

Travel Requests:

Health Department (4)              Burdette Park (1)                      SWCD (1)

County Highway (1)* verbal only

Surplus Requests:

Commissioners: Scanners, mouse, keyboard, adding machine, filing cabinet.

County Assessor: printer.

County Engineer: Pay Request No. 62: Green River-Burkhardt TIF Projects.

Auditor: October 2008 A/P Vouchers.

Treasurer September 2008 Monthly Report.

Purchasing: September 2008 Monthly Report.

Weights & Measures: October 2008 Monthly Report.

Department Head Reports:

Burdette Park                           County Engineer                       County Highway

Ozone Officer

Those in Attendance:

Jeff Korb                                   Bill Nix                                      Troy Tornatta

Joe Gries                                  Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.          Marissa Nichoalds

Madelyn Grayson                     Marsha Abell                            Norbert Niemeier

Ernie Brothers                          David Quandt                           John Stoll

Mike Duckworth                        Rob Kerney                              Chris Politano

Others Unidentified                   Members of Media




Jeff Korb, President


Bill Nix, Vice President


Troy Tornatta, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)