Commissioner Fanello: Call to order the Vanderburgh County Commissioner meeting, June 4^th. Introductions, I would say on my right is Tammy McKinney, Superintendent of County Buildings; County Attorney Phil Hayes; I, myself, Commissioner Fanello; Richard Mourdock, Commissioner; County Auditor Suzanne Crouch; and Recording Secretary Charlene Timmons. If you'll please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 
 

Approval of minutes

Commissioner Fanello: Approval of the minutes from May 21^st.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the minutes as submitted.

Commissioner Fanello: Second and so ordered.
 

Roger Lehman - GIS agreement with EVSC

Commissioner Fanello: Roger Lehman. 

Roger Lehman: Good evening. We have this evening an interlocal agreement between the School Corporation, the City Water & Sewer Utility and the Commissioners for GIS access interchange with the School Corporation. We have submitted it to the attorney who has reviewed it I believe, and I would recommend or request approval. 

Commissioner Fanello: And I asked the attorney to make a couple of changes and do we have a revised agreement? 

Phil Hayes: No, it has not been revised, but my understanding is that we can approve subject to and do the final version and submit for signatures. I think they were-

Commissioner Fanello: Two were...I kind of remember one of them, but I don't remember the other.

Phil Hayes: I'm sorry. Yeah, they were basically housekeeping in them both as I recall.

Commissioner Fanello: Oh, I just added...okay, I remember now. Three month notice of intent to cancel I would like to change that to 30 days and this agreement shall be for an initial term of one year, that's fine as long as we say December 31, 2001 and we'll review it at the beginning of next year which I think all of them come due at the beginning of the year, so that was it. So I'll move approval subject to those two changes. 

Commissioner Mourdock: And I would just also add just a scrivener's change in the first paragraph under Article II, cost, you just need to do a little work in there as far as some addresses, but with those changes as recommended I will second.

Commissioner Fanello: So motion, second, so ordered.

Roger Lehman: Thank you very much.

(Commissioner David Mosby joins meeting at 6:04 p.m.)

Commissioner Fanello: Now I'll turn it back over to our president.
 

Tammy McKinney - Tenant proposal

President Mosby: Tammy McKinney, tenant proposals.

Tammy McKinney: I had a gentleman come to me looking for office space at the Old Courthouse in Room 209. I believe everyone has his proposal that he presented to me. Basically, he wanted to redo the office area and he would pay for that and his rent would be deducted out of that amount until it was paid off and then he would start paying rent to the county for that office space. 

Commissioner Mourdock: The only questions I have, Tammy, I guess three areas. Number one, are any of the changes that he is suggesting or any of the remodeling going to be in conflict with anything that we would otherwise be restricted against doing? 

Tammy McKinney: It would be done-

President Mosby: Subject to.

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, I'm talking about historic preservation.

Tammy McKinney: Right.

Commissioner Mourdock: I want to make sure we don't get crossways. 

Tammy McKinney: No, it would be the same remodel that we would do to keep it in historic preservation standards.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay.

Phil Hayes: Commissioner, we had...I talked to Ms. McKinney this morning and we thought that we could employ the services of Mr. Au from the Historic Preservation just to double-check and even place that requirement in the lease that if there are any alterations anticipated later and that's what I think you're wanting to-

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, exactly.

Phil Hayes: Very good.

Commissioner Mourdock: I know as part of Tammy's task force...that has a nice ring to it, Tammy's task force. It sounds like a tv drama. 

Tammy McKinney: It is.

Commissioner Mourdock: I know Marsha Abell had sent something through that had a lot of lists of different agencies, web sites, that had all the historic renovation standards and there is all kinds of stuff. We just need to make sure we stay inboard with that.

Tammy McKinney: Right.

Commissioner Mourdock: The second one then, I think, Phil, you just eluded to it. As far as the actual form of the lease we're still working on that, that's not yet finished, I presume? 

Phil Hayes: No. We have a recommendation that was tendered by this particular tenant, I think. At the least the notes for it were and then on the broad form lease which it will go in to we're trying to pare that down to size and I think we're about there.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay.

Phil Hayes: There has been some delay on that and that is simply because that was a file that was handed back over, but we've got the base lease.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, and the third issue he does not say here anything other than the 19 month payout. What kind of term is he looking for in this lease as far as what period?

Tammy McKinney: The longest lease that we're going to sign is a three year.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, so he is comfortable with that?

Tammy McKinney: Right.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. I guess then without the actual lease in our hands we really don't need to take any action on this other than to just-

Tammy McKinney: I just wanted to basically present it to you and kind of let you know what direction that we were going in. 

President Mosby: I don't have any questions.

Commissioner Fanello: I don't either. 

President Mosby: Do we need a motion on this?

Commissioner Mourdock: I don't think so. 

Phil Hayes: I don't think so on that one. 
 

Richard Mourdock - USI engineering resolution

President Mosby: Richard Mourdock.

Commissioner Mourdock: I was contacted by Dr. Hoops this past week regarding a new program that is hopefully going to be started at USI regarding engineering. USI's representative Cindy Brinker is here. I don't know if she has anything specific to add to it, but I have prepared a resolution that would also go with a letter to a Mr. Stanley Jones of the Indiana Commission for Higher Education. I won't read this all into the record, but essentially all we're doing with this it is a resolution of the Board of the County Commissioners supporting the University of Southern Indiana in their request to establish a baccalaureate science degree in engineering. I was fascinated to learn through a little bit of research that there is no university south of Interstate 70 in Indiana that offers any formal bachelor's degree in engineering. At least it's stated in the materials so provided. I think this would be a good program. They're expecting at least 50 new engineers a year to come through the program and I would move that we pass this resolution and forward it on then to Mr. Jones so that the board may approve their curriculum.

Commissioner Fanello: And I'll second.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second, so ordered.
 

Dorrie LoBue - Tri-State Workforce Initiative

President Mosby: Dorrie LoBue. Is she here? I don't believe she was going to be here.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, well-

President Mosby: This is on the $5,000.

Commissioner Mourdock: I regret that she is not here because I would like to combine what she was going to speak about with the Tri-State Workforce Initiative and also with what Representative Weinzapfel is here for tonight. I don't know that there is overlap between those two programs, but I want to make sure that there is or isn't.

Commissioner Fanello: That's a good question.

Commissioner Mourdock: So that we know how the funding is going. Can we jump ahead to that issue for a moment?

President Mosby: Sure. 
 

Jonathan Weinzapfel - SW Indiana Economic Development Resolution

Commissioner Mourdock: Jonathan, do you want to make a presentation as far as-

President Mosby: Jonathan, you want to come up?

Jonathan Weinzapfel: How much time do I get? 

Commissioner Mourdock: How much do you need and cut it by four times!

Jonathan Weinzapfel: This is a copy for you. It says Gibson on there. Well, I appreciate the invitation to...I guess the acceptance of my request to talk about regional development with the Vanderburgh County Commission. I talked with each of you individually and even as a group about this topic and I think you're all pretty familiar with what we want to try to do, but maybe for the benefit of everyone here in the audience and for Counselor Hayes we will go ahead and maybe just quickly run through what we have put together over the past few years. Commissioner Mourdock, if you recall back in the summer, I believe it was the summer of 1998, the Indiana Economic Development Council approached the County Commissioners in Gibson, Warrick, Vanderburgh and Posey counties about some grant monies they had which were passed through from federal to discuss bringing these four counties together and look at ways that we can cooperate on a regional basis. County Commissioners from the four counties made appointments to this commission. We began work. I am here today because I was elected, or I think I missed a meeting, but I was elected co-chairman of the executive committee. It is our job in trying to push this strategy forward. One of the things that we did is we put together this comprehensive economic development strategy which I believe you have a copy in each of your packets. We started off with a vision statement, page eight, which basically says Southwestern Indiana's vision statement is:

"In the year 2010 Southwest Indiana will be a place where our children grow up with an outstanding education, kindergarten through college, within a value oriented community life and where all take advantage of expanding opportunities for rewarding employment in an area that respects the national environment."

The goals that we had set for 2010 is:

• Average wages for workers would be above the state and national averages. 
• An attractive standard of living comparable with competitor regions.
• Productivity above average of competitors.
• A safe environment with improved pollution levels to achieve in compliance with state and federal laws.
• The enjoyment of diverse recreational opportunities and green space above national standards.
• Improved access and efficiency of transportation including the presence of a north/south interstate route.
• Improved access to neighboring states.
• Highly coordinated and collaborative regional plan action and financing.
• Average school academic performance within the top ten percent of schools in the three state area.
• An increased number of job openings requiring post-secondary degrees or higher. 

"The Board of Commissioners of Vanderburgh County recognizes that Vanderburgh County is one of four counties, Gibson, Posey, Vanderburgh and Warrick, that compose a regional labor market area and economy that is commonly referred to as Southwest Indiana and;

 Whereas, important economic and community development related issues frequently transcend county lines requiring multi-jurisdictional approaches and solutions and;

 Whereas, the board recognizes the time and efforts of the members of the Southwest Indiana Strategy Commission to develop a comprehensive economic development strategy intended to address regional development issues and regional communication and;

 Whereas, the board recognizes the need for a formal regional entity to continue the economic development planning, implementation and coordination of the Southwest Regional Strategy Committee and;

 Whereas, the regional strategy and economical development entity approved by the USEDA would directly benefit Vanderburgh County and the region as a whole by: coordinating regional economic concerns and solutions with state or federal agencies and may qualify the region for grant assistance from the EDA and/or other federal sources."

 Whereas Vanderburgh County Board of Commissioners would join. Basically, while we have come up with all these strategies and goals and all that really forming the economic development district is a way of taking a step backwards because this organization is going to be whatever the County Commissioners and their representatives to the Regional Strategy Commission decide they want it to be. I mean, we went through the process of coming up with some ideas and what we would think are some achievable goals in the near future that we could move this region forward, but ultimately it is...basically, this organization is whatever the Commissioners and its appointees feel should be achieved for the region. We have been in discussions with the State Department of Commerce about some matching grants. We feel we have a pretty strong commitment for $50,000 from the Indiana Department of Commerce. We would expect that the Federal Economic Development Administration would also provide at least maybe $30,000 in matching grants. I would ask the Commission to approve this resolution.

Commissioner Mourdock: Several questions then, Jonathan. First of all, going back to the formation of the district I certainly understand and as you know on this board I've been supportive of the concept here, but this is where the rubber meets the road in the sense that-

Jonathan Weinzapfel: Yes.

Commissioner Mourdock: -this is where we're talking about dollars now.

Jonathan Weinzapfel: Yes.

Commissioner Mourdock: I found it curious that you read through all the whereas' and stopped just before the one with the dollar amount.

Jonathan Weinzapfel: That wasn't intentional. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Obviously, this group is looking for $30,300 per year for each of the next two years and I understand the formula by which that is pro-rata against the counties.

Jonathan Weinzapfel: Yes.

Commissioner Mourdock: The budget figure that you mentioned a moment ago though I presume does not include those sums that you think are otherwise available, the $50,000 you just mentioned from the state and the $30,000?

Jonathan Weinzapfel: That would be over and above, yes.

Commissioner Mourdock: Right, okay.

Jonathan Weinzapfel: And we feel fairly confident.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. In doing this, and I don't have in front of me the packet of information you were reading from, the questions I have regarding the connection between this one and the Tri-State Workforce Initiative. Item two, as you said in your vision statement, is to deal with somewhat under the same terms workforce development. Has there been any discussion at this point with the people who are otherwise involved in setting this district up with what the local Chamber is trying to do in workforce development?

Jonathan Weinzapfel: It's been almost...we finalized these strategy statements almost a year ago, so no we have not been in contact. We haven't been working on the issues per se since then. We've basically been working towards, you know, putting together an economic development district and putting together the foundation to begin to move forward. But, obviously, while this is just a statement of what representatives of the County Commissioners believe we need to be as a region it would entail working with any existing organization in trying to achieve it. 

Commissioner Mourdock: And I'm not adverse to either one of these two things, but what I do get adverse to and I seem to see this more and more, not implying that it would happen here, but it's where this body agrees to fund some group and then they end up using our money to fund three other groups. I think if we're going to allocate funds we need to make sure those funds are basically first party controlled. I would hate to see us approve this, put $30,000 a year in this district and then find out that in addition to the $5,000 on this other one they're taking, make up a number, $10,000 from here also to go into this. If we're going fund it I want to make sure we have direct line funding so that we're really in charge of those funds. I think that's our public responsibility certainly. 

Commissioner Fanello: Do you have any comment on that, Jon? 

President Mosby: Have you talked with Dorrie LoBue at all over at the Chamber about the workforce?

Jonathan Weinzapfel: No. The Chamber has been involved with putting together this Regional Strategy Committee, but no I have not talked specifically with her on workforce development issues.

President Mosby: Okay. Are you familiar with her request?

Jonathan Weinzapfel: No.

President Mosby: She has requested $10,000 from Vanderburgh County along with Gibson, Henderson, Posey, Spencer, Warrick so that's what we're referring to as an overlap here. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Potential overlap anyway.

President Mosby: Oh, potential. 

Commissioner Mourdock: The other part of this, Jonathan, as well have you put...let me rephrase that. I know you have put together a full budget based on the funds you expect to get from the counties, correct? There will be some permanent staff hired under that budget, correct?

Jonathan Weinzapfel: We would envision, yes, one staff person.

Commissioner Mourdock: One staff person? Has there been a job description put together-

Jonathan Weinzapfel: No.

Commissioner Mourdock: -for what that person would do and what their requirements would be?

Jonathan Weinzapfel: We kind of need the counties to buy in-

Commissioner Mourdock: First step.

Jonathan Weinzapfel: -and basically bring their representatives together in a meeting before we start. You know, it's kind of a Catch-22, as far as you can't put the cart before the horse.

Commissioner Fanello: Have the other counties agreed to fund yet?

Jonathan Weinzapfel: Posey County approved a resolution two weeks ago. My counterparts, George Rehnquist, is meeting with the Gibson County Commissioners hopefully in the near future and Ron Keeping will be meeting with the Warrick County Commissioners. 

Commissioner Fanello: Maybe we should take it under advisement for a week and if you could somehow coordinate a meeting with Dorrie LoBue over at the Chamber.

Jonathan Weinzapfel: Sure.

Commissioner Fanello: And just see if this would in some way overlap or make her familiar with what you're proposing and just get some feedback on that. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Actually we'll put both of these under advisement.

President Mosby: Right.

Commissioner Mourdock: So just to formalize it I would move then that Item E on our agenda and Item H be tabled for one week.

Jonathan Weinzapfel: This is as much about economic development as in attracting new industry and putting together a form by which these four counties can begin talking together. I mean, there are so many issues that we need to be working on together from a regional perspective. You know, transportation is the thing that comes to mind to me foremost. You know, this basically would be the foundation to begin doing that.

Commissioner Mourdock: And, again, don't interpret my desire to go no further as being hesitant. As you know, I have been to several of your meetings and sat through the process and helped appoint board members. So it's important.

Commissioner Fanello: I just want to make sure, like Richard and David said, we're not overlapping something or if we can get some kind of clarification of what she is wanting. 

Jonathan Weinzapfel: Good stewardship of my tax dollars. Thank you.

President Mosby: Thank you, Jon. Representative Weinzapfel.
 

Brad Ellsworth - VCCC software contract

President Mosby: Sheriff Ellsworth. I had a motion and a second to table E and H, so ordered.

Brad Ellsworth: Good evening. Sheriff Brad Ellsworth. I have given the president a contract that would enable us to change the software at the Community Corrections Center to a more user friendly and more adequate software package. I think we've reviewed the contract with Counselor Hayes and we made the changes that you requested. This software package, like I said, will enable us to give a lot better numbers to DOC. In fact, it's probably the most used software package in Indiana community corrections and I believe DOC, even though they won't say it, are working with this company to provide to work as the exclusive one through DOC. It does the reports, the quarterly reports that have been in question in the past and it should enable us to provide better information to the Department of Corrections. It will be funded strictly through user fees from the Correction Complex and if you have questions I would be glad to answer them if I can.

Commissioner Fanello: I'll move approval of the contract.

Commissioner Mourdock: Knowing it is funded by user fees I will second. 

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second, so ordered.

Brad Ellsworth: Thank you all very much. While I'm standing here, unless it's not a convenient time, I have also got last week or two weeks ago we talked about forming the committee and I've made those phone calls and also have a letter to you naming the members that have agreed to serve on this committee. I believe that is a fairly inclusive list and if you have anybody you would like to add or if anybody else comes forward we would be glad to address that, but I look for any direction in that area.

Commissioner Mourdock: Is Ms. Hagedorn effectively taking Jeff Lantz's place? 

Brad Ellsworth: I don't think so, Commissioner. She had just called when she read the newspaper article and notified me of her interest in serving on it, so I don't think it was anything official. She just thought it would be interesting to serve on the committee and would like to be considered. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Should we...there is a lot of people on that list already and I know the more people you put on it the more complex it gets.

Commissioner Fanello: I was just going to suggest that we have...because we'll have one Commissioner attending the meetings. If we could have one Councilmember attend the meetings. I know we've got three listed on here, but if we could reduce that to one.

Brad Ellsworth: We brought up the Council. I mean, they asked for their appointments and that's what they came up with. I know Councilman Tornatta just has a lot of interest in the project and notified us of his willingness or his desire to attend. 

Phil Hayes: I don't guess...if I could ask, Sheriff, the whole purpose of it is to make these tough choices about release, is it not, or alternatives to incarceration to those who are there? 

Brad Ellsworth: I think suggestions, again, over the last several years the successful counties in dealing with these problems talk about the continued meeting of the criminal justice system and the players in that system to constantly review and look at to keep a check and balance on that system and also, you know, if something new comes up or ways to reduce the overcrowding to teach each entity how the other one works, why I can't transport the day they are convicted and sentenced. 

Phil Hayes: Right.

Brad Ellsworth: I think it's an educational purpose and I also think it's for new ideas that anybody might come up with to reduce this. 

Phil Hayes: Did you anticipate too that we're going to have to have some, as far as the legal end of this is concerned some contractual relationships with other facilities to relieve the short-term, the day or the two day, weekend situations that we must anticipate?

Brad Ellsworth: That's very possible. That will be up...you know, we'll have to discuss that on whether with the counties I talked about having beds for approximately 15 if we need a contract or if it is good over the phone, they have the beds. You know we've went to the Council or the Commission went to the Council last week for an appropriation, I believe it was $20,000, standby money. Most of the three counties have agreed to do that for $35 a day similar to the DOC price. That's what DOC charges or will pay us and that's what they have agreed to do it for. 

Phil Hayes: Okay.

Brad Ellsworth: I'm not sure it's going to take a contract.

Phil Hayes: Electronic monitoring, are we there?

Brad Ellsworth: That will be discussed. We've got bracelets available. It's just making that determination if the judges are comfortable doing that.

Phil Hayes: Sure.

Brad Ellsworth: One thing about that, and I talked to the Council, that's usually the last thing we do at Community Corrections is put them on the monitor so we'll have to determine who is comfortable with that and is the system comfortable with putting them on the monitor early, the home detention monitor, and making that the first thing after they are arrested. So I think that is something this committee can come back and if they are comfortable and the judges are comfortable we've got bracelets so we can do that. You know, there are all kinds of things we're going to have to look at. The Evansville Police Department and the Sheriff's Department, one of the things we'll talk about is citations over arrests in certain situations that, you know, won't be a traditional thing that a police officer has done is cite for certain offenses, but that is certainly a thing to discuss. I think there are things like sobering centers that we can discuss. Just discuss every option.

President Mosby: Exactly.

Commissioner Mourdock: Sheriff, one thing I would suggest for this group, and I say this in hindsight, I think our original committee would have worked perhaps better had we done this, I would suggest that you say the third Thursday of every month at 4:00 whatever that date is. Pick that day and make sure this group mandatorily gets back to it.

Brad Ellsworth: Right. Do you see, and, Richard, you had the benefit of being there, but in emergency situations we may be able to plan that out already to give us the authority to say these are the people we're going to take out first if we have to move them. You know, any situation where we have to meet quicker than monthly. If the numbers spike.

Commissioner Mourdock: Well, I would see that perhaps as a subcommittee of this group with several people there. Obviously, as much as it's a financial issue and I'll use the County Council's example, it is certainly a financial issue how overcrowded the jail is in both the long-term and potentially the short-term if we have to send people to other facilities, but it is the judges and the prosecutor who are ultimately going to say, yeah, move this guy out or whatever.

Brad Ellsworth: Right. 

Commissioner Mourdock: So if you can get a small subgroup together. You might check with Jack Cottey up in Marion County and see how they've got their first out the door policy established.

Brad Ellsworth: Right. It's kind of strange. They called down to me last week and asked some of our particulars on our agreements, so they must be in the same boat. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Well, you'll be delighted to know the Sheriff in Marion County has the legal authority to let people out of jail, so if you would like that authority I'm sure the judges would be delighted to let you have it. 

Brad Ellsworth: I would just as soon leave that with the judges. You're going to have me kind of tore down here on lawsuits! Thank you all very much. We'll wait for the direction we can come to before naming the meeting. If the Commission would like to set that I would be glad to go along with that. Whatever works.

Commissioner Fanello: I was going to say I think we should go ahead and set the first meeting.

President Mosby: That's fine.

Brad Ellsworth: That's a good idea.

President Mosby: You want to vote on this group?

Commissioner Fanello: I guess if we need...I don't know if we need to vote on this.

President Mosby: Do you feel comfortable with this many people? 

Phil Hayes: Lantz, the Public Defender and the Juvenile Court. He has been out of town. 

Commissioner Mourdock: And we didn't have Steve Owen or anyone in that position before so as I see him on here and think about it that probably takes care of that same type of position.

Phil Hayes: Jeff, and his knowledge if you want to, but I know he has been out of time.

Brad Ellsworth: I'll be glad to call him and see if he would like to. I assume that, you know, I don't know how we'll run this and who can come in and who can participate. Whether this is the participating group, open public meetings. Open for discussion, you know, to anybody.

President Mosby: As long as you feel comfortable with this many people.

Phil Hayes: They won't all be able to attend. 

Commissioner Fanello: Yeah, they probably-

Brad Ellsworth: They won't all attend and I think the people in the decision making process will rise to the areas, you know, and I don't think it would hurt us, you know, the Council to hear what is going on and learning more about what we're doing.

Commissioner Fanello: They may not all be able to attend, so it's probably a good idea.

President Mosby: And like I say, you can just add Commissioner president or vice president in my absence if I am working. 

Phil Hayes: And or...?

Commissioner Fanello: It could be any of us.

President Mosby: And or...really any it could be any of the three of us. Whoever is available.

Brad Ellsworth: Yeah, I think the county attorney as he can make it. 

Phil Hayes: The county attorney will probably have a conflict, but I'll give you a little report.

Commissioner Fanello: So when do we want to set the first meeting? 

President Mosby: What did you say, Thursday?

Commissioner Mourdock: I just picked one just as an example. I mean, if we said the first Thursday of every month. That wouldn't give you enough time for this first one probably. How about the second Thursday of every month?

Commissioner Fanello: That sounds fine.

President Mosby: Which means there would be a meeting this Thursday? 

Commissioner Mourdock: No, the second Thursday. 

President Mosby: Oh, second okay.

Commissioner Fanello: Yeah.

President Mosby: The 14^th. Is that okay with you?

Commissioner Fanello: The second Thursday of every month?

Commissioner Mourdock: At what, 4:00?

Brad Ellsworth: Four is fine with me.

Commissioner Fanello: And room...what is that, 303 over there?

Commissioner Mourdock: No.

Commissioner Fanello: No.

Commissioner Mourdock: County Council room.

Commissioner Fanello: The County Council room is 303.

Brad Ellsworth: I'll try to arrange that. Or Tammy either one. Tomorrow can you try to get that?

Tammy McKinney: Yeah, I can call down to Bob and see if that is available. What was the time on that, 4:00?

President Mosby: Four o'clock, Room 303, second Thursday of the month at 4:00.

Tammy McKinney: And if for some reason you can't have that time, it's filled with something else?

Commissioner Fanello: You can probably always come over here.

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah.

Tammy McKinney: Just put it over here? Okay. 

Brad Ellsworth: Thank you.

Commissioner Mourdock: Before you leave the podium, Brad, one other thing and this was in the consent item file, but since you're there and for the sake of privacy I'll leave out the name, but you...actually Eric sent this to us, an invoice for $999 that DOC took care of one of our people for a while. I just want to know...Eric has the line here that my request is that the Commissioners pay this bill, which nice try, Eric.

Commissioner Fanello: I think I'm going to interject here and say I think that kind of goes along with the amount we asked for from Council in lodging the inmates, don't you?

Brad Ellsworth: Okay.

Commissioner Mourdock: I just want to know how we're going to cover this budget wise. What line item or how we're going to do that. 

Commissioner Fanello: Well, I was just thinking the same thing earlier, but it would have to come out of the line item that we asked for at Council last week.

Eric Williams: Let me explain. Chief Deputy Eric Williams. The gentleman that you are talking about is somebody that was ordered moved by our courts because we absolutely could not handle him so the DOC decided to hold him as a pre-trial detainee for us with the condition that they were going to bill us back for that. Really it was sent to the Commission to try to seek some resolution because we don't have a budget for that kind of item either, so more just direction on how do you want us to approach that? If there is inmate patient care that might be an account that you can take that out of because a lot of the other funds...that funds a lot of other things along those same lines.

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, that was the first thought, but it didn't seem quite appropriate in the sense that he isn't really a patient.

Eric Williams: It's not a traditional kind of item that would go in there, but I think it would fit that mold. 

President Mosby: Would it not be feasible to take it out of the $20,000 we went to Council for last week?

Eric Williams: That would be your discretion to use. I don't think that was...I don't think this is the intent of that funding-

Commissioner Mourdock: That was purely for transfer, correct?

Commissioner Fanello: Transfer, yeah.

President Mosby: We asked for money to move prisoners. I don't see why this would-

Commissioner Fanello: This is the movement of a prisoner.

President Mosby: If this guy was requested to be moved, I mean-

Brad Ellsworth: Well, he was ordered to be moved.

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, he was ordered. I mean, I understand we have to pay it, I just want to make sure we have the right line item. Do you want to make a motion that we take it from that, that's fine?

Commissioner Fanello: Motion to approve and I guess if we want to decide on which line item, personally I would like to take it out of the one we asked for if the Council approves it on Wednesday. If not, we could go to the Patient Inmate Care line item.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, I'll second.

Commissioner Mourdock: I have a motion and a second, so ordered.

Charlene Timmons: Can I ask a question before you leave?

Brad Ellsworth: Sure.

Charlene Timmons: I have an e-mail that say you were getting Fed Ex two of those copies of that software contract. Does somebody have those? You have those?

President Mosby: They're right here. 

Charlene Timmons: Okay, and can I change the tape?

President Mosby: Sure.

Charlene Timmons: Thank you.

Brad Ellsworth: Thank you.

President Mosby: Thank you, Sheriff.

TAPE CHANGE
 

Bill Jeffers - Precinct redistricting update

Bill Jeffers: Bill Jeffers, County Surveyor. I just wanted to briefly touch base with you and ask that our office be allowed to continue to come down here every week or two and touch base with you on the precinct redistricting. Today I would just like to give you an example of what we've looked at. On the first page of the handout is a map of Vanderburgh County divided into census tracts as of the year 2000. The shaded outline used as an example are the four Councilmatic, County Council districts as they exist today. You can see that the lines cross at some of the new census tracts. So we're not able to give you the exact population data because as of today we only have census tract data. We don't have census block data which is the smaller units. Looking at these existing Councilmatic Districts, you can see that the population has moved from District #3 out into Districts #1, #2 and #4. Ten years ago we had divided these up, they were relatively balanced within, you know, 1,000 people per district. So, looking at the second page, and this is just an example, these are actual population figures given. Back on the first page the estimates totaled up to 172,000. We divided that by four Councilmatic Districts. So, we're shooting for 43,000 per district. 

Commissioner Mourdock: But the first page is as it exists?

Bill Jeffers: As exists, as is. I can't give you the exact population per district because some of the tracts are split as you can see. I don't know how many live on one side or the other of those lines. The second page, using known census data, we straightened out, actually we didn't straighten out, we just went along the existing council lines and followed census tract lines so that we did not split census tracts. Where necessary we booted out a little bit in District #3 to gain some votes, I mean not votes, to gain some population.

Commissioner Fanello: Was that a slip there?

Bill Jeffers: We're looking at population here, to gain some population. Where necessary we retracted the lines to loose some population. On the third page you'll see what we were doing there because the shaded...the areas are shaded as high growth, moderate growth, stable, moderate decline and high decline. So you can see that, for example, Council District #1, we took some population in the high growth area of Center Township and added it to #1. We split that high growth area between #1 and #2. Then down here in Perry Township there's a high growth area, so that balances out. The only problem we're having is trying to gain enough population in Districts #3 and #4 to offset some future growth. What this population change indicates to you is that the population is leaving the inner and near inner city and moving towards the suburbs, but we're able to come pretty close. We're within 1,000 people of hitting 43,000 in each of the four districts by doing what we did. So that's just an example of how we're working. The problem we're having is acquiring census tract, I mean census block data to do some fine-tuning. The two pages following that map...this is all that's available to us off the Internet. We can't work with that. That's a census tract map that's available in an 8 ½" X 11" format printed off the Internet. That big dark area is just going to use up toner and what we get down here as census block data is just about useless anyway. So, what we've found today was that there are 29 maps available and the 30^th map unit index. These are 30" X 36". They are available from the Internet. They're huge areas of census blocks. The county is divided into 29 areas. The size of each unit is shown over there. These became available between April 24^th and April 27^th of this year, so they're up-to-date. They're plotted out on 30" X 36" sheets of paper. The only two agencies that are capable of doing that work is the Area Plan Commission and the City Engineer's office. The City Engineer's office balked at having to take the job for 29 of these maps and Area Plan Commission indicated that they would like the request to come to the County Commissioners. Other than that, I wanted to point out that our Office Supply Maps' budget has $120 left for the rest of the year and the County Surveyor's Office Supply, which would be pens and highlighters and other things we're using for this project, we have $191.88 left for the rest of the year. So, I'll be asking you to help supplement this project. Just to copy the maps on to mylar so that they can be used over and over again or distributed is $180 project for eight maps that the Clerk sent over. Just eight maps at 30" X 36" are going to cost us $180 to copy. Over a period of time, I mean if the City Engineer would like to participate in that project and supply us with those 29 maps, that would save a substantial amount of money. But I'm going to be asking the County Commissioners to help encourage participation by other departments such as Area Plan and the City Engineer's office.

Commissioner Mourdock: Bill, when you said the City Engineer balked at doing that, tell me again exactly what he balked at doing. Are you simply asking him to download...

Bill Jeffers: I'm asking him to download that data for those 29 maps, plus the 30^th one which is an index map, into their files and then their plotter would...

Commissioner Mourdock: Would plot them out.

Bill Jeffers: Would plot those maps out. It's very time consuming. When he thought it was eight maps like the ones that the Clerk sent over he said, "It doesn't sound too bad, we probably have the man power for that." When he found out it was 29 he balked. Now this is the Assistant Engineer, the City Engineer is off on vacation this week. So that's not to say that...

Commissioner Mourdock: And the $180 a piece that it would otherwise cost us to do this, we would do it commercially somewhere?

Bill Jeffers: That price came from Repro-Graphics. The last time the hard copies were provided by the Census Bureau and I was just talking about reproducing those as clear mylar so they could be reproduced. When someone asked for a copy of them we could reproduce them.

Commissioner Mourdock: But the $180 would get us per map what the City Engineer would otherwise do, is that right?

Bill Jeffers: No, sir. I haven't been able to get a price from Repro-Graphics if they were to download and plot those out. I would imagine it would more like $1,000.

Commissioner Mourdock: Per map?

Bill Jeffers: No, for the 29.

Commissioner Mourdock: Oh, okay.

Bill Jeffers: And then they still wouldn't be reproducible, they'd be on paper. What they're doing, they're doing them for about....well, no I mean it's real labor intensive to sit there and man the plotter while these things are slowly plotting out.

Commissioner Mourdock: Have you been working with the Clerk on this as far as the precincts?

Bill Jeffers: The Clerk has been very helpful in transferring data to us, but her data is from 1990. It does have the Legislative Districts overlaid on it and it has been very helpful.

Commissioner Mourdock: But she's giving you all the existing precincts.

Bill Jeffers: All the existing data, yes sir. She has been very helpful in transferring all of the existing precincts as well as some data that will help us combine or divide precincts that are too small and too large. That was something else I was going to ask for some guidance on eventually. What we're looking at is we're looking at precincts in these rapid growth areas that have gotten so far out of hand that the lines are 45 minutes to 60 minutes long to vote even though there's the maximum 1,200 people per precinct because the voter turnout is so high in those areas. In Center Township particularly, there's one precinct that took 45 minutes to get to the door. The precinct is still a legal precinct, it contains less than 1,200 people registered to vote. Yet the turnout was so high that the line was that long. When they closed the polls at 6:00 they invited everyone in line to come inside and some people left. Those that were able to get inside, it took until 8:30 to vote. So, we're going to be looking at precincts like that to divide even though they're legitimate precincts containing 1,200 registered voters. We think that's a disservice to the voters if they can't...or that they even have to wait that long. Whereas there's other precincts that have 400 or 500 voters per precinct and the voter turnout is so low that they should be combined and made into the maximum number of voters, 1,200. We're going to be asking for some guidance on those precincts because we don't...we think that the taxpayers should get maximum bang for their buck on this. It's hard enough to staff these precincts. At the same time, we're going to need some input from various people who intimately know the workings of the precinct as to whether some of the precincts need to be cut in half because voters can't get in the doors.

President Mosby: Is it not feasible just to send more machines out there?

Commissioner Mourdock: I'm not sure that may not be the only answer because I think there are some legalities with the sizing of precincts. You're right 1,200 is the max, if the county had a policy saying that all of them were going to be 700 then they'd all have close to 700. I don't know that you can say in some we're going to go ahead and maximize to 1,200 as you are suggesting, and in others you take that 1,200 and say, just for ease, we'll go 600 and 600. I'm not sure we can legally do that. But putting more machines in there might be an option. You're raising a great point, it's just a matter of how we address that problem.

President Mosby: And I would like to mark these precincts that we're talking about, if we've got that info, the ones it took so long to vote in so that we can...we still can try to make the minimum amount of precincts as possible to cut down on our workers and expense. It's easier to supply two extra machines as opposed to 10 or 12 people. I mean, I would look at when we go to order new voting equipment, if we have to, then let's estimate out how many machines we think we need per precinct.

Bill Jeffers: One suggestion that came in, I've solicited some people for suggestions, one suggestion was that we send out questionnaires to precinct workers or precinct committeemen from both parties asking for that type of data. How did the precinct operate in the last several elections?

President Mosby: We should contact the Inspector and Democrat Judge which is the two people that bring the equipment back and the ballots and everything. That's who's in charge and we need...

Bill Jeffers: That's who you think we should need to contact?

President Mosby: That's who I would contact because the Inspector is in charge of the precinct and the Democrat Judge, as long as the Secretary of State is of the Republican Party, is the head person for the other side. I would contact them two people and ask for their suggestions. It would be good starting spot.

Bill Jeffers: That's true because a lot of precincts don't have...

President Mosby: A lot of them don't have committeeman.

Bill Jeffers: Committeemen, yet every one has a Judge and an Inspector, that's correct. I just want to ask you if I can come back every week or two and have brief chat. Thank you.

President Mosby: Thank you.
 

Catherine Fanello - Vanderburgh Co. Capital Improvement Plan

President Mosby: Catherine Fanello.

Commissioner Fanello: I just want to make known, my microphone's not on, make known something that I brought up in the campaign last year and also Commissioner Mosby brought up last year was that the county needed to pursue more long-term planning. So, I'm asking that this board adopt, I guess, the idea that the county do a five year Capital Improvement Plan. I've already had discussions with John Stoll and Ralph Kissinger and Steve Craig about developing one and have given them a copy of the one that the city produces every year at budget time. We have the authority over our departments to do it and I also encourage all the county departments and the County Council to maybe ask the county departments to do a Capital Improvement Plan. But I just want this board to adopt that idea so that we can move forward on it before budget time this year.

Commissioner Mourdock: You will not hear me ever argue against planning. I think it is the fundamental thing that this board needs to do. I take a little offense at the inference there that it needs planning now like there was no planning previously. I'm not going to make a big argument of that, but certainly we've done quite a bit of planning here in the past six years, and you'll note that includes also the two years when I was the minority member.

Commissioner Fanello: Maybe a reference point for planning which we don't have at this point.

Commissioner Mourdock: And that's a valid point. I think the thing that we have to consider when we look at our capital plan especially is on the income side. I think that's the great mystery right now. That's the number that's floating in space that we don't know how that's going to affect us. As you're probably aware just a couple of months back the state's revenue was down $100 million. Did Jonathan just leave?

Commissioner Fanello: He left when you said that.

Commissioner Mourdock: He sensed this was coming, I guess. The state's revenue dropped over $103 million in one month. For instance, with Local Roads and Streets the extra $100 million that was put in the budget there that we've been able to work off of the last few years, that money was not put back in the budget for this coming biannual. So, that total of $179 million drops to $79 million which means we're back to funding the Roads and Streets at the level of 1995 and 1996. The base of what we do with Roads and Streets, as Ralph would tell you, so much of it is asphalt based and the price of petroleum now is...well it was 40% in '95 and '96 what it is right now. So, how we're going to get by with '95 and '96 numbers, I think, calls for a lot of planning, everything. Even with what we're looking at budget wise maybe we should look at taking our own COIT estimates for budget and rolling those back to '95 and '96 levels just to make sure we are going to be consistent and conservative. So, as far as doing the budgeting and the planning, I think we need to do that. I think we are clearly trying to hit a small fish in a big barrel because there are so many changes coming down from state funding right now that we're going to have to watch it very closely.

Commissioner Fanello: That's why I suggest putting together this five year document which, you know, would tell us what projects are on the table and we can prioritize as changes come about. I mean, at least Council has an idea of what projects we're looking at because...I mean, I'm not saying that nobody planned before, but since I've been in here I've almost felt sometimes like we just fly by the seat of our pants some days. To me that's not good government.

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, there was planning before and that was one reason why we got done so much so fast out on the east side because we saw that as a priority. Again, I'm not going to argue with you over the need for planning, absolutely. That's why I put up on the board back there what I put up the second week of January so that we have something to work from. So, however we need to do it let's go ahead and get started with it and keep everybody advised.

President Mosby: I would like to see the department heads give us their five year range for what they see as capital improvement and I would like to see, and I'm very familiar with the city side as being Finance Chairman over there, nothing started without being funded. And I mean it was funded in the year 2003 or 2004 or 2005. You know, I look at Steve Craig sitting at Burdette Park waiting to fund a Discovery Center. You know where it's coming from? I mean, I don't. But I mean we've got a building started, or we've got the land started but it's not funded. Now, to me that project would have not started had it not been funded to its full extent. But, that's what I don't see happening over here and that's what I'm use to. I wouldn't want to start a project unless it was funded and we knew we were going with it. That's my...what I would like to see from our department heads and truthfully would like to see the county follow it totally and everybody list out their five year priorities. And we can get somewhat of an estimate on what our Riverboat money is going to be and our Local Option Income Tax money is going to be and other sources of income to where behind each project it is going to say either RBT or LIT or whatever. So, that's what I would be looking for, that the county be put on a plan.

Commissioner Fanello: So, I don't know if we need a motion to adopt that idea or we just want to go with it and present it at budget time.

Commissioner Mourdock: I would suggest then that we go ahead and formalize it with a motion that you want five year capital budget plans for all department heads reporting to the County Commissioners.

Commissioner Fanello: Okay, I'll make that motion.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll second it.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second, so ordered. Any other discussion?
 

Suzanne M. Crouch - Live broadcast of Commission meetings via Internet

President Mosby: Suzanne Crouch.

Suzanne Crouch: I'm here to request permission to broadcast the Commissioner meetings live via the Internet. A question had arisen at the last meeting I was at, which was May 21^st, about security and that has been addressed by Dave Gumbiner, head of SCT, where there are no security risks or issues with that. Commissioner Fanello and I had a very healthy discussion Friday that was taped. I hope all the questions have been resolved, but I'd ask permission to do that at this time. What that entails is permission for a phone line drop in here.

Commissioner Fanello: Okay. And if you can get with Tammy and get our new form filled out. You weren't here last week, but we did come up with a new form for all of the telephone requests and equipment requests. I'll make a motion that we broadcast live the County Commissioner meetings via the Internet and after that I'll also make another comment.

Commissioner Mourdock: That includes going ahead and setting up the phone line?

Commissioner Fanello: And setting up the phone line, yes.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll second.

Commissioner Fanello: And also, I mean if we are going to truly be committed to public access then I'm going to ask that this county look at broadcasting these meetings on television and public radio.

President Mosby: Motion and a second, so ordered.

Commissioner Fanello: Oh, sorry.

Commissioner Mourdock: And your comments about doing it publicly, we've already contractually, just by sense of history, we've already contractually provided the way to do that which is through the SIGECOM franchise agreement that was done about two or three years ago. One of the things that they had to provide as a part of that contract that we negotiated into it was public access type channels. They are to set up, when they're ready to roll, they have the contractual obligation to go ahead and do those things.

Commissioner Fanello: Okay, and just to let you know I had a conversation with Dave Dial the other day at WNIN so he would also like to sit down with one of us and talk about possibly broadcasting them on WNIN.

President Mosby: Have you presented this to the County Council?

Suzanne Crouch: I'm on the agenda for Wednesday.

President Mosby: I think you talked with Channel 14 today, so did I. Did you talk to Channel 14? I know they were trying to get a hold of you.

Suzanne Crouch: Oh, today?

President Mosby: Yes.

Suzanne Crouch: Yes.

President Mosby: Okay, I did too. I told them that I'm not against the public information part of it. I would like to see it expanded to the County Council, City Council, Mayor's Office if they want. The one thing that I'm concerned about, and I'm in favor of this, is the repercussion of the voter who does all of the sudden have an interest after seeing this on the Internet that would like to speak to a subject or would like to talk to a subject, but it's going to be done with by the time they have any access to us. We can discuss something here tonight and if it's of any importance to them and they are sitting at home on the Internet, what are you going to give them to access us to let us know- 

Commissioner Fanello: Maybe we ought to have them type in questions.

Suzanne Crouch: I think that's a very healthy comment and it's not beyond the realm of possibility to do some type of interactive in the future where people could actually e-mail any questions and concerns. I think that's a very good point.

President Mosby: I just hope you don't stop here. I mean, I hope you keep pursuing this and maybe researching it to where you can come up with something. I mean, they can't come down next week under old business and say that I want to speak to what you voted on last week.

Suzanne Crouch: And revote.

President Mosby: Right, we're not going to be revoting.

Commissioner Mourdock: Let's take that another way. I know currently we do, once our minutes are approved those are available. Are they not?

President Mosby: Sure.

Suzanne Crouch: That is correct.

Commissioner Mourdock: I mean Internet wise?

Suzanne Crouch: That's correct.

Commissioner Mourdock: Why not go ahead with the agendas that we have on Friday and go ahead and put those out on Friday. That way people would at least if they choose to go to the Internet they can at least see what is coming up on the schedule and if they choose to be hear they can and if not maybe they'll sit there and watch their machine or listen to their machine.

Suzanne Crouch: Is that something that the Commissioners would make available over their website?

President Mosby: This is a public agenda, so I don't know why we wouldn't want to make it available.

Commissioner Fanello: Maybe we could make it available on our website, but since the minutes are on...I think they go to your website to get the minutes. I don't know if it would make a difference or if it would be easier to put it on the Auditor's.

Commissioner Mourdock: Put it on both, yeah. Okay, I'll move that as soon as practical we begin to post our agenda on the Internet on both the Auditor and Commissioner sites.

Commissioner Fanello: Second.

Commissioner Mourdock: And that means those would need to be done by 1:00 or so on Friday to make sure we can get them ready.

Suzanne Crouch: And Charlene raised a point, Tammy. I don't know if it is possible to get that agenda on disk, but maybe we can work that out. I know it takes you a while to get it. That would just make it easier for us to upload.

Tammy McKinney: Oh, that's fine. But I think we need to, if we're going to do this, we've got to set a time. I can't have these late things like that dropped on my desk on 3:00 this afternoon.

Commissioner Fanello: Everybody needs to adhere to that time schedule.

Tammy McKinney: I mean, so I know we sent out a memo early that said that Thursday at noon and I'm still getting things at Thursday at 2:00.

Commissioner Fanello: Deny them then if it's not an emergency.

Commissioner Mourdock: Put a little box out by your desk that says "Thursday 2:01 p.m." and if it comes in after Thursday at 2:00 then it goes in that box and we don't see it until the following Monday. That would simplify everybody's life.

Commissioner Fanello: I agree.

Tammy McKinney: So that way I can have it to you Friday morning. If we can get everyone to adhere by the deadline.

Commissioner Fanello: It doesn't matter if it comes in at 1:15-

Tammy McKinney: It's done.

Commissioner Mourdock: That will get away from all these stacks of paper we find on our desks right before each meeting and that would be a welcomed change.

Commissioner Fanello: Yes.

President Mosby: Thank you.
 

Renewal agreement - Government Payment Service

President Mosby: GPS.

Commissioner Fanello: That was the agreement we put on hold from the last meeting. You were going to look at that and see if that was- 

Phil Hayes: I have reviewed the agreement and I find it to be consistent with the standards that the county requires.

Commissioner Fanello: I don't have a copy in front of me.

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, I don't have a copy of it either.

President Mosby: It was carried over, I think. I don't have mine. 

Charlene Timmons: I have a copy.

Commissioner Fanello: I'll go ahead if everybody is okay with it and make a motion to approve.

Commissioner Mourdock: Second.

President Mosby: Motion and a second, so ordered. 
 

Any group or individual wishing to address the Commission

President Mosby: Any other group or individual wishing to address the board under action items? Yes, sir. Okay hold on, I've got two.

Commissioner Fanello: Duel.

President Mosby: Go ahead. I seen you first, then I seen him get up so I'll start with you.

Steve Perry: I've appeared before you so much I'm beginning to think we're family. My name is Steve Perry and I'm with the Evansville Rescue Mission. Prior to the meeting I dropped off a proposal to you. In essence, I know I've been hearing in this meeting a real concern about funding and where you're going to get money to do various things. I guess what I'm trying to say is that our organization is ready to present the county a gift. That gift is described in the first page here. It's a 30 bed juvenile detention/training center that is expandable to 50 beds and is similar in scope to the Hale County Juvenile Facility featured in this proposal. This facility will provide services for male and female juveniles. It will provide private beds. They will be equipped with restroom facilities. They will be handicap accessible. It will provide services to children who are a danger to themselves and a danger to others. This facility will have education, indoor and outdoor recreation, special programming and many other valuable components and we will serve pretrial and, if necessary, post-trial placements. It can also be an alternative to Indiana Boys/Girls School placement. A placement that hasn't been very good in a lot of years, and has resulted in a lot of times these young people going to prison. How will this project be funded? At no cost to the county taxpayers the Evansville Rescue Mission will conduct a capital campaign to cover the purchase of property and expenses of construction for the proposed juvenile facility. The project's estimated cost is between $3 million to $4 million. Major corporations, banks, commercial businesses, civic groups, churches and individuals will be challenged to make a generous pledge toward helping at risk youths in need of attention. The campaign will begin privately for an estimated three months, followed by a public campaign for an additional three to six months. Pledges will be accepted for one year or multiple years. Cash donations, gifts of equities, trusts, contributions and other monies will be accepted for the project any time after the Commissioners give approval. Informal fund raising for this project has already begun. Part of the $3 million to $4 million estimated cost is the $775,000 purchase price for additional land. However, a major donor has committed to pay for most of this acquisition over a period of ten years. Other major donors are currently making commitments. A mortgage will be needed while pledges are being paid. It is anticipated that a line of credit and then a mortgage will be needed to cover building expenses during the time pledges are being met. Therefore interest on the mortgage must be factored into the annual operations budget. So what criteria will we follow to write an annual operating budget? It's the standard set by the U.S. Department of Justice Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention which is somewhere between 30% to 36% of the cost to build the facility. The operations budget will need to be funded by Vanderburgh County for a minimum of ten years at the rate of 26 occupants per day. Any vacancies each day that are not filled by a Vanderburgh County Juvenile Court will be offered to juvenile courts in surrounding counties at a fair market cost per day, but the amount of which will be credited to Vanderburgh County. So what will happen to the Youth Care Center? Upon completion of the new Juvenile Detention/Training Facility the existing Youth Care Center will operate exclusively as a non-secure detention/behavior modification program for both male and female juvenile offenders. Operating in a non-secure capacity was the intention of the Youth Care Center in the first place. The Youth Care Center will work closely with offenders and families to insure the necessary components are in place to give the child a reasonable chance of success once he or she is sent home. It will remain a 60 bed emergency shelter that offers middle and high school education for credit, GED training for clients not enrolled in school, independent living skills and many other important things. It will continue to be a reward for good behavior for those in the new detention unit to leave to go there, especially when clients need more time before they go home. Now, here's another question and that is, is the Evansville Rescue Mission capable of handling a project of this scope? The answer is yes. The Evansville Rescue Mission, having assets of more than $4 million and a cash reserve of $1.5 million, is in solid financial condition to begin this project. Furthermore, it has a donor base of more than 17,000 individual family units committed to providing help to needy people in the community. Also, it has an 84 year track record for financing capital projects without cost to the taxpayers. Construction on the new facility can begin as early as January 2002 and be completed to commence operations by the first quarter of the year 2003. In the packet that I gave you there is an ariel view of the main campus of the Evansville Rescue Mission. It's in the center there. There's a parking lot behind it which is in front of what is now our Youth Care Center. To the right of the main building you see an "L" shaped parking lot and next to it at the far right is a building, an office building which has been the OB-GYN clinic since 1962. This is the property that we are purchasing and we've already signed an agreement with Deaconess Hospital for this purchase. We are purchasing it through them over a ten year period at 6% interest. The next slide shows you where the future site of the Juvenile Detention/Training Facility will be placed. It's right in the "L" shaped parking lot. Following that is the Hale County Juvenile Facility diagram that is provided by Gibraltor Design out of Indianapolis, Indiana, a firm that has built any number of juvenile detention facilities and is currently building the Indiana Girls School in Indianapolis. There is a letter that has been given to me that is presented on the next page that explains that this facility can be placed in that parking lot. In this facility you'll notice it has a gymnasium, cafeteria, classroom, and I say and they say that it is a 30 bed facility but this doesn't mean that all 30 beds will be occupied at once. You have one room that is segregated and you have two rooms that are designated for isolation once the young people are received into the facility. Then the other is a medical examining room. So, probably 26 people maximum will be placed here at any particular time. If you'll look beyond this letter that is written by Don Prichard, you see another diagram that shows the future site of the juvenile facility. But also penciled in red represents areas that can also be utilized for either current or future expansion of that plan, facilities that we already have and facilities that can be incorporated into the model once that model is designed. Now, in order to do that, and especially according to the letter by Mr. Prichard who came down and measured off the lot and the facilities that we have. He says that by vacating this alley, I don't know if you see the alley or not, can you see the alley? By vacating the alley to the dotted line above, the proposed 30 bed facility can be expanded to a 50 bed facility later on. Now, if we use up all of our space then where are we going to park cars? The answer to that question is that right across the street that accompanies this property that we are purchasing, next to Buckner Towers, is a 33 car parking lot. So, I come before you all tonight to share with you this commitment that we have to the young people of this community. We really believe that with the experienced staff that we have and we've been managing the Youth Care Center for 19 years, we feel very confident that there are many more good things left in store to help these at risk youths. We do not approach matters as punitive, but we approach children as if they are children in need of services even though they are facing violations of the law. We believe in gentle, tough love if you will. We don't take our responsibilities lightly. We don't believe in doing anything second class. We want to make sure that they are provided for in a special way so they can grow up in this community and be good citizens. We're ready to go, anytime you give us the word we'll get started on this project. We'll look forward to it, we've been looking forward to it. I want to thank the board members and different supporters of this organization for coming tonight and others that weren't able to be here. We could have filled this place with 1,000 people to tell you what the Evansville Rescue Mission stands for and our heart is in the right place. We don't intend any harm to anybody.

TAPE CHANGE

Steve Perry: I've got one right here. I think I gave -
 

President Mosby: No, we wanted one for the -

Steve Perry: You want five? 

President Mosby: Yeah, we need one for -

Steve Perry: Sure.

Commissioner Fanello: Hypothetically speaking, if we were to go with such a proposal, what would you do if the county could not fund the operation's budget?

Steve Perry: Well, our approach is we're doing this for the county and it's already been determined that to keep people detained, young people, that the standards have been set, that they need a facility where they can stay, where they can have access to a restroom without knocking on the door or calling some of our behavior techs over and say, would you take me to the bathroom? And currently, that's what they have to do and our staff doesn't mind doing that but we feel like that since the building wasn't designed to do what it's doing, and it's been pointed out by the newspapers that we can't take care of females and that sort of thing, we're doing our children a disservice by not providing those services.

Commissioner Fanello: I don't disagree with you on that and I'm fully committed to having a juvenile facility here but it's something we haven't had before and even, you know, the Sheriff has made the comment about community corrections, if there's not enough money to fund it, you know, we can always stop it. But if we were to get in the juvenile detention facility area and you did that and you want a ten year commitment on funding an operations budget, if for some reason the county runs into some kind of stopping point where we can't fund the operations budget, I'm interested in what you would do at that point.

Steve Perry: I was always under the impression that the county is mandated by law to take care of a situation like this. 

Commissioner Fanello: I don't think, I mean, we don't have a detention facility like you're talking about right now, so I mean, if...

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, I'm going to take a shot at the questions and I think I know the answer, too, so let me try to put this together. If I understood what you were saying in your proposal here, sort of what Dave was saying earlier, if we don't commit to do this at some level, whatever that contracted level is, you're not going to go forward. Is that correct?

Steve Perry: We're doing this as a service to Vanderburgh County, so there's no other county that's going to -

Commissioner Mourdock: But as far as the new construction, you're not going to go break ground for anything unless we've committed to funding operating expenses at some level, whatever we ultimately negotiate.

Steve Perry: Right. 

Commissioner Mourdock: And then, that begs the question, and this is a great start, I mean, we asked you the last time you were here to come back with a proposal and this is a step in the right direction to get us all talking and looking at the specifics. I guess two questions, on the second page you talk about the need for the county to fund a rate of 26 occupants per day, at some point very soon we would need to know what that is in dollars per day. And the second part of that is your reference to the beds being used by other counties, have you had discussions at this point with the other county commissioners in surrounding counties to get -

Steve Perry: No, we currently do business with Posey County, but we haven't talked to other counties about this. We have sent brochures from time to time of our services that are available. 

Commissioner Mourdock: And the business you are doing with Posey at this point is simply on a per dollar/per day delivered service?

Steve Perry: For the same basis as it is with Vanderburgh County. At the 26 bed occupancy figure, surprisingly, because the Mission is willing to raise the funds to build the facility, there's not going to be too much difference in what the actual per diem rate is.

Commissioner Mourdock: From -

Steve Perry: From what it is currently.

Commissioner Fanello: Have you spoken with the Sheriff about this idea?

Steve Perry: Nothing other than seeing Brad here at the meetings from time to time.

Commissioner Fanello: Because I'm sure there would have to be some, if we did this, there would have to be some coordination with...

Commissioner Mourdock: And Judge Niemeier.

Commissioner Fanello: And Judge Niemeier.

Steve Perry: Right, sure.

Commissioner Mourdock: And I think Judge Niemeier is largely supportive of the concept at this point. I've heard him make that comment. 

Steve Perry: And Judge Niemeier is doing a great job keeping our current facilities open and running well. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Well, that's a great point, too. How has that number changed since the first of the year?

Steve Perry: It's changed dramatically.

Commissioner Mourdock: From what to what?

Steve Perry: Well, we've had, actually, there have been times we've had more young people in the facility than what we were able to occupy.

Commissioner Mourdock: Don't overcrowd or the ACLU will come.

Steve Perry: We've had as many as 21, I think, and maybe even 22 in there at some point, but it's been about 18 that we've been keeping on an average. 

President Mosby: I've just got a couple of questions and I read what you're saying here about cooperation. I mean, have you actually talked to some of these people? I mean, is there commitments there? I notice you go off of about a six month timetable and I'm just wondering how far into this are you and positively sure that this could come about?

Steve Perry: I don't have any doubt that we'll be able to raise all that we need to raise and -

President Mosby: I'm not doubting your word but I've sat before and had people come up and tell me, you know, we can raise that money if you'll go with the idea and you get out there and you make a commitment and the next thing you know -

Steve Perry: I know, and I've never-

Commissioner Fanello: A good example is the ice rink.

President Mosby: It's happened several times in mine and I'm gun shy now. And then I would go further on to the next -

Steve Perry: I wouldn't be standing before you if it wasn't going to happen.

President Mosby: I'm just going to take for granted, though, you've really not talked to anybody yet since you -

Steve Perry: Oh, I've talked to a lot of people.

Commissioner Fanello: But do you have firm dollar commitments from those people?

Steve Perry: I haven't asked for firm dollar commitments.

Commissioner Fanello: I mean, there's a -

Steve Perry: And the reason I haven't is because I'm waiting for you all to say yes.

Commissioner Mourdock: Knowing a lot of the members of the board, -

Steve Perry: Cause I may have some other projects to ask money for later and I don't want to ask them for something and it's not going to happen.

Commissioner Mourdock: I have no doubt in my mind at all, knowing the members of the board that are sitting back here, they wouldn't come here if they felt they had any doubt in raising this kind of money. I know they can do that. 

President Mosby: And then I guess my other question would be, is where you talk about a mortgage and I guess that's anticipated on the fact that you're going take pledges and you've got to wait for that money to come in, so what happens then when the money doesn't come in? Somebody goes out of business, pulls their support, where does that money come from?

Steve Perry: We've never been in that situation. The money has always come in. We've always made it. 

President Mosby: You need to sit in my seat for a while. 

Commissioner Mourdock: I think you just said it right, you need to run county government.

(Inaudible - several speaking at once)

Commissioner Fanello: Have you thought about running for County Council?

Steve Perry: It's always come in. I mean, that's why we're still here.

President Mosby: I mean, I've sat through some of these over in the city and people make pledges but it doesn't happen and that's what I'm wondering, what happens then?

Commissioner Mourdock: Well, my question I guess is to David and Catherine here at this point. It would seem to me based on our last presentation that Steve and his group gave us, we asked them for a proposal and they've come back to us with this, it seems to me now that it is incumbent upon us to get back to them within a fairly reasonable time frame as to what we think the county would be willing to commit to, if anything. I'm not making any presumptions, but on how many beds a day or what sort of dollar amount would we be looking at? Obviously we need to work with the County Council to do that.

Commissioner Fanello: And I would want the Sheriff to sit down and have a discussion with everyone about this, too. I would have to look at - we started off this year with this jail project and in talking about juvenile and community corrections and doing these projects as one project in order to save money. And granted, they would be building a facility, but I would just want to go through and look at how much we would be spending in operational costs at another separate facility versus what we would save having all three facilities together. 

Phil Hoy: I just came to the mike, Phil Hoy, County Council, to make a suggestion since we handle that budget for young people, which last year counting adoption costs, foster homes and institutional placements, is $11,000,000. We would like to see the plan - you know, we're interested in seeing the plan, we're interested in any options and we are, obviously, interested in - I think I can speak for the majority, if not all seven of us, we're interested in more than just dollar amounts. We're interested in quality of service and what happens with young people. So I think it would be very wise for this presentation to be made to the County Council also. I'm not going to raise any questions about it tonight. The questions that I have, I know Steve very well, I know his organization. Whether or not you want to do this or we want to do this or the Sheriff wants to do this, as far as raising money is concerned, I will tell you one thing, if there's any organization in town that can do it, they can. I would never doubt that for a minute. That's not the concern. I think we need to look at operational costs, and things like that since operational costs are what did they tell us, 80 - 90% of your long term costs and that's what we want to look at, too, and also what kind of service that's offered. So I'm sure that Mr. Bassemier, who is the President, would welcome an offer from you to come to present.

Commissioner Fanello: Which board members are here tonight? If they would just stand and introduce themselves.

(Inaudible - board members did not come to the microphone to introduce themselves) 

President Mosby: Any other questions?

Commissioner Fanello: No, I think, like I said, I'd want the Sheriff to sit down and have a discussion with you and see what his viewpoints are. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Is it reasonable to set a timetable here of, I don't know, six weeks or something to say that both to get the Council involved with a presentation from Steve and his board to that group, for this group to talk about it to get the input from Judge Niemeier, the Sheriff, whomever else we need to bring to the table, I mean, these folks, again, I emphasize they've done what we asked them to do and I think we need to get them a response of some sort.

Commissioner Fanello: I would think the earlier the better, since we are going to be in negotiations with the jail design team.

President Mosby: I would say, I'll get a hold of Judge Niemeier and maybe get him and the Sheriff, Eric, Mr. Perry, and sit down with them and look at this proposal, come back to him with an answer, but I wouldn't, and before I would commit to this, I'd have to see some type of fund raising started and some commitment on your board's part that we're not going to get - that we're not going to get into this project and then all of the sudden say we can't do it when we've already got the jail being designed and the community corrections being designed, then we have to stop and go back and try to design juvenile, so I mean, yeah, I'd be more than willing to get back with them in four weeks. And then put the ball back in your court again. 

Steve Perry: Great.

Commissioner Mourdock: Then, just formally, I'll move that the President of this board determine a meeting date between the Judge, the Sheriff and whomever else is deemed appropriate from the County Council, plus Mr. Perry to discuss and we'll get back with a formal presentation about a month from today, which would be what, the -

President Mosby: It might not be - and I don't know if this board would want to include other counties but I've had contact with Posey, Warrick, both, and talked to them already and they might be interested in doing something with us. I didn't talk to anybody from Gibson.

Commissioner Mourdock: I think Gibson is contractually tied in to Knox County in some way, but I'm not sure on that.

Steve Perry: They may very well be, I'm not sure.

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, you don't get many folks from Gibson, do you?

Steve Perry: No. 

President Mosby: But I have talked with Jack Pike, Bobby Deig, Martin Redman, so these guys are all interested.

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, you know, and if we can have some cost shifting through the negotiations to get them to carry more of it, let's do it.

President Mosby: Sheriff, would you have a problem with tying in Posey and Warrick?

Brad Ellsworth: That's no problem with us. I think we have a letter and I know Pike forwarded it to you all from Warrick County expressing their interest in getting with us. I haven't had any contact with Posey but we got a letter of interest from Warrick County that they be included in some kind of talks.

President Mosby: Was it from Jack Pike, the president up there?

Brad Ellsworth: It was the president or community corrections advisory board.

President Mosby: Yeah, I had a long conversation with him in Lafayette and matter of fact, Martin Redman and Bobby Deig from Posey were there, too, when we were talking. So we'll get with them.

Brad Ellsworth: We'll work with anybody you want.

President Mosby: Okay, I'll get a date with him and Judge Niemeier and then we'll get back to you.

Steve Perry: Alright. Anything else? 

Commissioner Fanello: That's it.

President Mosby: Thank you very much.

Steve Perry: Thank you.
 

Richard Helzerman - Jail overcrowding

President Mosby: Mr. Helzerman, you were coming up and I had to stop you.

Richard Helzerman: My name is Richard Helzerman and I'm here to speak to you about the problem of overcrowding in the Vanderburgh County jail. First of all I'd like to thank Commissioner Mourdock for writing a letter to Stan Levco and to two heads of the courts. Stan Levco met with me two times for 45 minutes each, the judge of the Circuit Court, Judge Heldt met with me for a half hour during his lunch hour and hasn't given me the other half hour. Judge Pigman has given me, I've met with him once for over an hour and once again a second time. All of them do not take ownership of the problem of the overcrowding of the jail. And when I present some issues to them, they always say I don't have control over that, somebody else has control over that. And they, in particular, Stan Levco says that he deliberately sets the bail higher than the people can make when he wants to keep them in jail before they've been proven guilty. Judge Heldt also said and he said I know the constitution says that the person should have a reasonable bail, but the law of Indiana allows us to set the bail higher than that. And he said that he deliberately sets the bail at a level for these people so they will not be able to be let out. I didn't talk particularly a lot with the Superior Court because I had another issue with them. It's still not resolved and I don't want to talk to you too much about that until we get resolved this issue. Suffice it to say that if I'm right on that, if the Superior Court would make one simple change in their procedure, the overcrowding in the jail would disappear within three months but I still haven't convinced him of that. But I appreciate your support and it has been very helpful. I learned a great deal talking with them. I'd like to say that in the last three weeks, the population in the jail has gone up very high and you've exceeded the agreed limits of 329 or whatever it is, and so technically you are in violation of your agreements with the federal court and are subject, presumably, to contempt of court citations and other kinds of things. I think it's clear from - there was an article in the paper that said that Judge Trockman asked the Council to form a committee to help them decide who to let out and so the judges themselves are looking to you for an answer. They do not know, I mean, they put the people there they think should be there and there's too many of them and they've come and asked you for guidance and now forming a committee is nice but if the committee only meets once a month, that isn't going to be too helpful because the thing goes over. Now, the first point I want to make about it is the jail population going up over its limit is not an accident and if you'll look in the packet that I have, the first graph shows the population of the jail for this year. The jail population jumps up and down continually. That's the nature of any random type of activity. But there will be an average or a trend line and if we look at the - and to do that, that's called a regression and so I've set up two regression lines here. And if you'll notice, from the first of the year up through the twelfth week, the thing goes up and down but that yellow line is a regression line, that's the least square's best fit of the population of the jail. Now the coefficient on that line is -1, which means that the average every week, the average population of the jail dropped by one person. But something happened ten, eleven, twelve, you know, toward the end of March the beginning of April, there's a change in the regression line. And the regression line that fits the second half of this plot is the blue line and you can see that that is growing and in fact it's growing five a week and while the numbers go up and down, they're going up around a line that's going up five a week. And so the population of the jail, it's not just that it happened to pop up high to this level and it's going to pop back down. It is, in fact, there is a real trend there that this line will match and it will require some change in policy procedure, some action or it's going to keep going up and up and up. And the Sheriff showed me a graph that he's keeping, this is a weekly graph because that's the only data I have, but he has the daily data and you can see on the daily data that it's jumping there also. And so I am here to urge you to continue your efforts to try to get this down. Now the reason the jail is overcrowded, again, is because of the pre-trial felons and the second thing in your packet there is the last page of one of the weekly jail reports. There are 332 people in the jail this week, 181 of them are pre-trial felons. Now that's almost two/thirds. Most of the year it's been half, they've been half of them but the percentage of pre-trial felons is growing as the population of the jail goes up. And we have a constitutional right to have a reasonable bail and if these pre-trial felons had a reasonable bail they would not be in jail and you would not have a problem. If this number was down along with these other numbers, the rest of the parts of the system are working fine, but the pre-trial felons are not working fine and that is where the problem is and that's where the solution has to be. Now the third graph I have for you shows the population of the jail for this year, the pre-trial felons is the reddish line, you can see it's about half our pre-trial felons, and you can see when the pre-trial felons goes up the population of the jail goes up and when it goes down. Now the pre-trial felons consists of two groups of people: one are people who can't raise their bail, in other words, the only reason they're in jail is because they're too poor to raise their bail. And that is the yellow line, it's around 100 people consistently all year. There's 100 people in the jail that are simply there because they're too poor to be out and if you took those 100 people out, the population of the jail would be 220 instead of 330 and so the problem is, again, with the failure of the judges to set the proper bail. Now the second item of the pre-trial felons being too many is the failure to get a speedy trial which again is a constitutional right, guaranteed by and there you can see that there's a little more than 50 or under 50 and it's rising also. And those 50 people, if you drop those 50 people, in other words, if everybody got a speedy trial, the population of the jail would be close to its rated capacity. Either one of those two things. Now I believe the law of Indiana allows for the jail to charge prisoners $35 a day for being in jail and I think that if you would pass some kind of a resolution that would say, if a person is in jail over the 70 days, if it's the judge's fault that he hasn't scheduled a trial, that the $35 a day after the 70 days that he should have had his speedy trial, if the court, the justice system got docked out of their budget money, $35 a day and it went to the Sheriff to run the jail, and if it's the cause of the public defender's office that they haven't gotten around to giving the guy his trial in 70 days, that $35 a day be deducted out of their budget and given to the Sheriff to run the jail and if the Prosecutor is at fault for not aggressively prosecuting, the $35 a day comes out of his budget, I think that you could - it's all county money that you would be budgeting and passing around, but then they would have a tangible incentive to get these trials speedily done and I think if you would adopt some kind of a policy like that in the budget, that you would give them incentives that would match your particular incentives. Now I have here a list of all the pre-trial felons who could be released if they could raise their bail: Robert Orr, $400; Sean Crawford has been in jail 33 days for want of $500; Laquita Johnson, 26 days for $500 bail; Brian Brock 25 days for $500. If you look at number 26, Timothy Foster 181 days in jail for $1,600 bail.

Commissioner Fanello: But what did they do?

Richard Helzerman: Okay, that's a good question. What did they do? I'll get to that, okay. But from a constitutional point of view and you have here the previous Sheriff admitted to stealing $150,000 and did not spend one day in jail, but to get to what they did, to get at what they did, I'll get to that in a minute, okay? To answer your question about that. And they go down. Now there are over 100 people here and if they could raise their bail you wouldn't have a problem with the overcrowding in the jail. The next list is a list of people from this current week's report that have been in jail over 70 days and they have failed to get their speedy trial. Now if -

Phil Hayes: Excuse me just a second. Legally, there is no one there who has not waived that right. They can demand, but the rule is and I think the Sheriff will confirm, if they had been held in excess of 60 days and they have not either made the motion themselves or have stipulated to a motion that it will exceed 70 days, then the court is going to order their release. On a motion, the failure to try results in their release. They can be re-indicted and recharged, but they're released. So I think, I know you don't wish to be inaccurate, but the fact is that almost, in fact, every one of those people have waived right to speedy trial. It's a standard waiver and I might add to you that most arrests, statistically, result in a conviction of a crime, which is a good result. It's a nice country, because like in other countries, we wouldn't want a 40 or 50 percent result. That would be a bunch of bad arrests. So there is method in the madness of waiving one's constitutional right to speedy trial under the theory that time heals all and it might heal a lot of problems, witnesses drift away, people quit worrying about being robbed, so a deal can get cut. People forget about you. The longer you stay, lots of times, the better off you are. It might be malpractice on the part of the public defender that asks for the speedy trial. So I just want to lay that foundation from a legal standpoint, because I know you don't intend for any of the body here to get the wrong impression about this, and I think that that is the correct impression that should be had. The record will reflect that what I am telling you is the case. Those speedy trials have been waived, there's no constitutional rights being violated in that respect or in any other respect that we know.

Richard Helzerman: All due respect to yourself, rule four of the trial, rule four regarding speedy trials, the defendant must - he doesn't have a defaulted right, he must insist upon a speedy trial.

Phil Hayes: No, that's not the case. He can make his demand for a speedy trial when he is incarcerated. If he is not incarcerated, then he has no requirement to do speedy trial. If he remains incarcerated after 70 days, he has not made the motion or he has positively waived and when you say can't default, that is correct. Each one of those records will have one of two things, either a waiver or, in fact, it will have a trial. And that's why you see civil cases being bumped on the docket and criminal cases being imposed on a speedy trial basis as they called it. It's adhered to and I can assure you that after 34 years of being in this atmosphere, that it happens and predictably, almost every time. I've held my breath, but I've never lucked out with a client. So I can assure you that you will see a positive waiver on that. I don't want the record to reflect and give the - you don't want to give the wrong impression and I'm not trying to lecture - far from it. I'm simply stating what indeed is the - if we had that situation in our jail, we would have another lawsuit besides that and I want the record to be clear that that's not going to occur, not intentionally.

Richard Helzerman: Again, I have sat in court many times and listened to all the cases that came up while I was sitting next to a fellow who attends our church that is in trouble, I have never heard - I have heard the judge tell them they have a right to a speedy trial, but I have never heard the judge ask them, are you going to waive your right to the speedy trial. Never once.

Phil Hayes: Okay, when they make the motion - 

President Mosby: We're not here on a speedy trial. We need to move forward with this because we've got all these department heads and everybody else, so -

Phil Hayes: I'll make a deal with you, I'll put myself on the list of getting together if you'd like to investigate that and when - I'm going to do a quick legal report and when I do it, I'm going to give you a couple pieces of information about a side project that we're trying to document. The Prosecutor is helping us out and meeting with Chief Williams and others to try to select other people. So we're not just depending on a huge committee. We've already started that process of documentation. And let me share that with you and if we can do it so that we can move the meeting on, and if you want to address this issue with me, I'll be more than happy to do that.

Richard Helzerman: I want to make it clear for the record that I do not agree with what you're saying.

Phil Hayes: I understand that, and I think it would be appropriate for, that being the case, in good faith, I'd be more than happy to show you that and to show you how that proceeding works, and I think you'll find that what I am representing is consistent. The courts and the Prosecutor and Sheriff and the justice system in this county don't routinely violate the constitution by denying the right to speedy trial. Any defendant may demand it and it will happen. It will happen. And believe me, there will be huge crowds of people waiting for trial who will get out of the way gladly to let that guy go first if he wants to go first. They will sure let him go. And I'll be glad to meet with you privately and do that and we'll go ahead. 

Richard Helzerman: I can name you at least one person that requested a speedy trial and it was not given.

Phil Hayes: Then in that event, he's a free man.

Richard Helzerman: Well, he's already served his time. And well, okay, now the next report I have is one that I prepared with the intention of giving to the committee to help them select who should be released. And this report shows the name, the days they've been in jail, the bail amount, and is sorted by bail amount because basically, the lower the bail, the more likely they are to get out. But it also shows the highest level of charge against them, if it's a class D felony, class C, class B felony. It also gives the total of the years that they would be sentenced if they were found guilty of all the charges and there were no mitigating or - in other words, it's the middle thing. For each felony there's a set time and they can make it longer or they can make it shorter. This is the middle time. So in particular, this week there's 332 people in the jail, the cap is 329, you've got to pick three people, you should pick three people, you committed to Mr. Faulk that you would let three people out or get them out of the jail.

Commissioner Fanello: No, not that we would let them out.

Commissioner Mourdock: Transfer them to another jail, not let them out.

Richard Helzerman: Well, you -

Commissioner Fanello: And if we're working off this list right here, I can't find anybody I would let out.

Commissioner Mourdock: And we have been doing that, Mr. Helzerman. The several times we've gotten over the 329, we have transferred prisoners to other jails to relieve the overcrowding.

Richard Helzerman: Okay. Well...

Phil Hayes: We'll take your information-

Richard Helzerman: Thank you very much. I appreciate your efforts. 

Phil Hayes: Reverend, let me give you a phone number and you can call me. You're welcome to call me tomorrow and I'll be more than happy to talk to you and if you'd like to make arrangements to have any of your data sent to Mr. Faulk, we're getting to be real chummy, so I'll be more than happy to pass that along to him and I respect your viewpoint from speaking purely on a legal basis, and I know you don't want to have the wrong data and I'll be glad to assist you tomorrow or the day after to get appropriately updated on these requests for speedy trial and how it works. I'll be more than happy to do that.

Richard Helzerman: The problem - I'm happy to meet with you and I appreciate that and I will. The other thing that I'd like to say is that I'd like to - it would appear that at least two of you are Christians and I don't know about the third, but since there was an article about Commissioner Fanello -

Commissioner Fanello: But I'm very tough on crime, so I'm not much of a bleeding heart.

Richard Helzerman: I'm tough on crime, too, but I'd also like to point out to you that the United States just lost a seat on the United Nations Commission on civil rights and this is a civil rights matter and this is the thing, as a Christian, we have the principle that we are supposed to treat other people that way we would like to be treated ourselves. Now, you in your position are walking mine fields and you could break some kind of a law very easily and if for political motivations one of the judges or one of the Sheriffs or one of the state police or something, decide to run a vendetta against you and they made some false charge against you and the judge puts your bail up higher than you can meet, you would be in the same position as these hundred people. And you would not like it to be that way and if you would treat people the way - you would not want the judge just to put extra high bail on you just because he doesn't like the way you look or something. And that's what we have here with these hundred people.

President Mosby: But I'm not going to drop their bail just to let them out, either, just so they can walk the street.

Richard Helzerman: Right -

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll respond to part of that real quickly. On the Christian part, Mr. Helzerman, if there were one person on that list, one person, who was in jail, who couldn't meet their bond and it was the first time anything had ever happened to them, I would understand your point of view and be more sympathetic to it because clearly, and I think I've said this to you before, when the Blue Ribbon Committee first met, I was very much of the opinion that there were a lot of "poor people" in the jail who were poor people and they just could not bond themselves out. I went into that process with my prejudice, if you will. As I've been involved with this thing for a number of years, I've come to recognize that the people who are in the jail consistently are the ones where time after time, as Catherine was starting through the list a minute ago, on a lot of them it's failure to appear, failure to appear. And granted, the crimes appear to be relatively insignificant. I mean, we're not talking about mass murderers here, but we're talking about people who consistently have been accused of crimes and failing to appear and failing to appear. And that's why they're there. And that's why my Christian duty, I will also extend in other direction which is, I think I better serve the community by having those people in jail than having them perpetrate other crimes on other people, which is what they've consistently done. 

Commissioner Fanello: I like the Old Testament, eye for an eye.

Richard Helzerman: Well, I like the Old Testament, too, but in the law of Moses, there was not a single crime that was punished by jail, not one.

Commissioner Fanello: I think they just took punishment into their own hands.

Richard Helzerman: No - that brings up another point, though, the justice was carried out by a council of the elders. A person was accused of a crime, was brought before them, there had to be two witnesses to the same effect and so they had a standard of evidence which our standard of evidence is way below that. And the punishment was carried out immediately, but right now, the equivalent thing to that council of elders is the jury. Now at that time, the Old Testament times, everything was lay. There was lay counsel that did it, there was lay people bringing in accusations, there were lay people defending themselves, they didn't have professional anything. Now in our system, we have a professional prosecutor, we have a professional judge, we have professional defendant lawyers, we don't have professional jurors, and I think they could have - I would like to see USI have a program to educate people to be jurors, people who are retired go to class and learn how to be a juror. You have a professional juror class so that you could have a trial basically instantaneously by calling the retired people in for the jury. Right now it takes two days of process on each trial to get the jury. But anyways -

President Mosby: Thank you. 

Charlene Timmons: Can I change the tape?

President Mosby: Yes, go ahead. 

TAPE CHANGE

Don Burton: My co-partners, LaDonna Ford and Bill Carrroll. We want to commit uh, to petition the Commissioners for the Mill Terrace Subdivision which is Westchester Drive and Wittman Drive for the Barrett Law for street repairs. I have a-

President Mosby: Thanks, we just happen to have the County Engineer here.

Don Burton: We have been talking to him for months.

President Mosby: Good. Okay, tell us. Westchester is in North Park?

Don Burton: It is right across from the County Garage, off of St. Joe Avenue. 

John Stoll: West side.

Don Burton: West side.

President Mosby: Okay, is it gravel now?

John Stoll: No.

Don Burton: No. It is concrete and it was a subdivision that was started in 1967 by a developer, Corbitt, Bill Corbitt, under Bufco Corporation. The streets were never brought up to county code and we didn't find this out until approximately 21 years later. So, which we found out, the homeowners are responsible for it. We have 32 homes, 33 plots and we are needing to get this fixed real bad because it is sinking in quite a bit. So, we have been talking with Mr. Stoll and the former county attorney on this project, so we have petitioned the neighborhood. We needed at least 60% for it to pass, is what we were told, we ended up with 77%. So, I have a petition, I think, that we have given one to John and do I need to give this to them?

John Stoll: (Inaudible - not at the microphone.)

Commissioner Mourdock: I apologize for stepping out, which neighborhood are we talking about?

Don Burton: It is Mill Terrace Subdivision. It is a horseshoe street.

Commissioner Mourdock: Where abouts is it?

Don Burton: Westchester Drive.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, I know where.

Don Burton: Part of it is Wittman Drive.

Commissioner Mourdock: Right close to the highway garage.

Don Burton: Correct.

Commissioner Mourdock: We had prepared, and, Phil, I don't know if you have received them, but when people came to us looking for a Barrett Law process we had prepared a packet of information. Did Joe Jr. give you those?

Phil Hayes: The packet itself I don't know. What I have instead is the transcript of one of the Barrett bonds and the form of petition I did go ahead and after talking with John about this, I forwarded it to bond counsel to review and just get the elements and get a set of procedures together. So, it is the same thing as it is one of the transcripts that Joe had prepared and he sent that over to me. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Just by sense of history, we ran into a period of time where we had several of these coming over the period of several months. They are quite complex.

Phil Hayes: Right, they do become.

Commissioner Mourdock: So, we put the packet together so when people came forward we had basically, here is how you do it.

Phil Hayes: I don't think that we will have any trouble developing that. I am sure that there is maybe a packet all ready to go and otherwise we can go ahead and replicate what we have and I think get that done. Set it up on the proper schedule. 

Don Burton: We have copies of the Barrett Law. The neighborhood is aware of what the procedures are and how payment would be if this is passed by the County Commissioners to the Barrett Law. I guess the county would actually bond us, they would get the money from the state, the county would- 

John Stoll: Local banks.

Phil Hayes: Local banks.

Don Burton: Local banks, oh okay. I was under the impression that it came from the state and then we paid you over a ten year period, if we prefer, or we can pay you right up front for the lump sum of each home.

Phil Hayes: Fundamentally correct, yes.

Don Burton: Everybody knows about that, the ones that want to go in on it. The ones that doesn't want to go in on it, the other twenty something percent.

Commissioner Mourdock: Just for the other board members, this is where these get to be touchy, because we are talking about making an improvement in an area and typically we have done this with sewer systems, we did one street project as well- 

John Stoll: (Inaudible - not at the microphone.)

Commissioner Mourdock: But there are always people who don't want to participate and this board mandates if we accept this, that they do participate.

Phil Hayes: Yes. If I could?

Don Burton: Out of 32, 33 property owners, we only have 32 homes but we have an empty lot and we had 27, I think, is on that list that is willing to go for it. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Refresh my mind from the history and I know this has come up before but with the streets that are there, they are in very poor condition- 

Don Burton: Very poor.

Commissioner Mourdock: Yes, is the basis of what we are doing here, were they built width wise to county standards and it was just not constructed to county standards, that they were not taken over? Or, where they never done to full width of standards, John, do you recall?

John Stoll: The width appears to be adequate but construction wise- 

Commissioner Mourdock: It was just the actually materials.

John Stoll: Just bad concrete or (inaudible). I haven't seen any papers on it so I am not sure what the thickness of the pavement was but they basically deteriorated like they said.

Commissioner Mourdock: Obviously, that is what we need to verify to make sure that if this is resurfaced, if it was repaved, that once that is done, otherwise, the county standard would be.

Don Burton: Well, actually this is going to have to be completely torn up. We have, I already had an engineer to look at it.

Commissioner Mourdock: I don't doubt that. But, my point is for the board to act we need to make sure that when this is completed that it is going to meet all of the county standards. For example, if there was not currently sufficient right-of-way, people would have to grant more right-of-way. I don't think that is the case, I am just using that as an example.

John Stoll: I believe there is a 50 foot right-of-way out there. In all of the estimates that we did, as well as their consultants, we are all estimating the total removal and replacement of the entire streets because it has deteriorated to the point that there is little to anything that can be salvaged. 

Commissioner Mourdock: I will move that we take this under advisement and pass it on to the county attorney and have him review it and begin the process to make a recommendation to the board.

Commissioner Fanello: Second.

President Mosby: I have a motion and a second. So ordered and we will get back to you.

Don Burton: Okay, thank you. 

John Stoll: Can they proceed with working with the consultant to start preparing plans or should they wait?

Phil Hayes: I think the intention is to wait until we have gone through the package and then we look at the preliminary estimates. The preliminary estimates are finished up, correct?

John Stoll: Correct.

Phil Hayes: So, if we have those, then I think we can see a per homeowner basis and determine, and there may be, your other neighbors that haven't at this point, seen fit to join you on the petition, they may want to review that and take a look at it as well and perhaps then be persuaded to join you.

Commissioner Mourdock: Just for the record, if you do go forward and make some commitment, to anybody, be it a consultant or whatever, for the record, you are doing that at your own risk until this board has gone all the way through this process.

Phil Hayes: That is why I would like for you to not commit further professional fees, I think, until the Commissioners have had an opportunity to see what the entire package would look like and what kind of money we are talking about.

Don Burton: I have the estimate from the engineer that we have put on hold, if you would like a copy.

Phil Hayes: If you have a copy of it, why don't you forward it to Mr. Stoll.

John Stoll: I already have copies.

Phil Hayes: If you do, then that's great. He will get that to us then. So, I will get with Mr. Stoll and go through this process with him and give a recommendation then to the board.

Don Burton: Okay, thanks.

President Mosby: Any other group or individual wishing to address the board? Department Heads, County Engineer.
 

John Stoll - County Engineer

John Stoll: The first item that I have got at the meeting on May 21st a Notice to Bidders was signed for the Boyle Lane Bridge and at the Drainage Board meeting that same evening, Bill Jeffers brought up a DNR permit and we did not apply for a DNR permit because we had some old paperwork that basically implied that the bridge wouldn't take a permit, so because of that I contacted Madelyn Grayson and had her withdraw the Notice to Bidders, so it was never advertised. I will bring back another one once we have obtained all of the proper permits. The second item that I have got is a reimbursable utility agreement between Vanderburgh County and Vectren for the electrical relocations out on Burkhardt Road between Interchange Road North and Lynch Road. This agreement amount is $15,655.00 and that is approximately 10% of the gross total relocation costs. Basically, the reason that this 10% is reimbursable is that there were easements, some of their facilities were located in easements. The balance was all located in right-of-way which we don't reimburse them on that. But the agreement format has been reviewed by Phil and approved and it is recommended that this be signed. 

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Mourdock: Second.

President Mosby: A motion and a second. So ordered.

John Stoll: The next item that I have is also on Burkhardt. This is for the construction inspection for that same area of Burkhardt Road up to Lynch Road. This is with Bernardin Lochmueller and Associates and it is for $350,495.00. This is for all of the construction inspection services and those won't start until this fall when the project is out for bid except for one item and that would be the staking of the right-of-way so the utility relocations can be done. So, that is the only reason why the agreement needs to be signed now. It is recommended that this be signed.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Mourdock: Second.

President Mosby: So ordered.

John Stoll: Next I have a request for storm sewer acceptance in Carrington Estate Subdivision. This is located on Petersburg Road, north of Boonville New Harmony. There is a grand total of 3,269 feet of storm sewers located outside of the right-of-way and the developer has paid the $2.00 per foot fee for a grand total of $6,538.00. It is recommended that these storm sewers be recommended for maintenance.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Mourdock: Second.

President Mosby: Motion is seconded. So ordered.

John Stoll: Next one to get an approval is getting price quotes submitted for two projects. First, would be for the rehab of a culvert structure on Roesner Road on June 11. That project basically would be replacement of beams on the existing structure. This is immediately south of Hogue Road. The abutments are in good shape we just need to replace the beams and we will notify the contractors and then they will submit their price quotes for next Monday.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Mourdock: Second.

President Mosby: Motion is seconded, so ordered.

John Stoll: The second project would be for the removal of debris that is accumulating on the Stringtown Road bridge. Basically, there's going to be a log jam on the upstream side of that bridge and we need to get that removed and we will finalize some specs on that and get some quotes submitted for that project on June 18. 

President Mosby: Is that not something that we can do ourselves?

John Stoll: The problem with that one is that the access to the site. You almost need a crane or- 

Commissioner Mourdock: It takes a long stick crane, from past experience, which we didn't have.

President Mosby: Okay.

John Stoll: If we have sufficient right-of-way on the sides of it to where we could access down to the creek better we could also do it with our own forces. But, because of just the way the bridge sits relative to the creek, it takes a crane to do the work.

President Mosby: Okay.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Mourdock: Second.

President Mosby: Motion seconded, so ordered.

John Stoll: When we write the specs on that we will try and limit the road closure time to where it interferes with traffic as little as possible and things like that. But we will try and leave it open to where the contractor has some options on getting the work done. The next item I've got is the indemnification letter from NFH Incorporated on their proposed crossing of Burkhardt Road in order to provide fill for the Lynch I-164 interchange. I also have in here a copy of their certificate of insurance and I ran this letter, this indemnification letter past Phil and he approved it as to form so I just want to submit this for the record. I believe that was approved last time subject to getting those two items so I think that everything is ready to go.

Phil Hayes: Yeah, John, is there any reason, do you want a countersigned, they don't need a countersigned letter I don't think, just the minutes of this meeting accepting?

John Stoll: I can just send them a letter saying that it's approved.

Commissioner Mourdock: I will formally move the acceptance of the letter of indemnification.

Phil Hayes: Yes.

President Mosby: I have a motion.

Commissioner Fanello: Second.

President Fanello: Second, so ordered.

John Stoll: Okay, I will send him a letter. Next, I wanted to let you know that in regard to the railroad crossings out on Boonville New Harmony Road, St. Joe Avenue and on Mill Road, where we have always had problems with the crossing surface being in terrible shape. I had sent a letter to the railroad back in January. Phil followed that up last month and I received a phone call from a Mr. Alan Brown of Indiana Southwestern Railroad. He called and proposed that if the county would buy the precast concrete panels for the railroad crossings that his company would install the panels. I told him to put that in a letter that I could bring to you for your review and potential approval. I don't know what the cost would be but that would be his way of trying to address the situation. He said that they don't have enough revenues to do all of the repairs themselves since that is just a short haul line. I told him likewise that the county doesn't have the money budgeted to go out and do railroad repairs that the railroads are obligated for. So I told him to submit a letter and we would see where we could go with it. But I will keep calling him if I don't see the letter here shortly. I just want to let you know that they have at least responded which is a plus compared to years past. The last item that I've got is in regard to the request that Mr. Maasberg made at the drainage meeting last month, which was subsequently discussed and determined that it really needed to just be a Commissioners issue. Basically, what we found is the area where the water is ponding out next to Armstrong Road was not supposed to drain to the north as was requested with Ralph and his crews, where Ralph was asked to install a pipe to drain the area to the north. This is the current Armstrong Road and that is where the water ponds. You can see, here we have a house that sits right in the corner, and basically he was wanting the water to be drained across the road and directly towards this house. Well, when I met Ralph and Mark out there, it looked like the rain should drain out to the east. In talking with Bill Jeffers today, he was able to find out that Kneer Ditch is where the water was supposed to go and he found out that this is where the water ponds. He said that his property is actually assessed on Kneer Ditch instead of on Hoefling Ditch which is to the north. This is the 1968 planometric map that shows the contours do imply that it was supposed to drain east. So, from what we have been able to find, there is no reason for county highway crews to install a pipe that would drain the water to the north. Ralph was saying that by putting a pipe in here would help drain off this standing water, but it would drain basically this way as opposed to going across the pavement. We only have 25 feet of right-of-way out there so it is kind of limiting us to what we can do. Everything we have found shows that it should go to the north.

President Mosby: Okay, so what are you proposing that we do?

John Stoll: That is something, I guess, that Ralph and I need to get with Mr. Maasberg with because at one time, Ralph had discussed Maasberg buying the pipe and the county could put it in (inaudible). Mr. Maasberg wasn't interested in buying the pipe.

President Mosby: Well, tell him it doesn't go the other way.

John Stoll: Well, we hadn't discussed that one yet, I was just giving you an update on it, I will let you know where it goes from here. That's all I have unless you have any questions on any other thing.

Phil Hayes: Is that it? Didn't we have one other?

John Stoll: Those easements for University Drive.

Phil Hayes: Yeah, do you want to do that?

John Stoll: I don't have all of that. I will bring all of that next Monday. Thanks for getting back with me on that.
 

Ralph Kissinger - Superintendent of County Highway

President Mosby: County Highway.

Ralph Kissinger: Ralph Kissinger, County Highway. Basically, you have my report. I do have, Phil Lawrence from Purchasing sent me this last week and he had looked over the bids that Phil had opened at the last meeting and his recommendation that Freightliner was the low bidder on the step van and I move- 

Phil Hayes: The amount? 

Ralph Kissinger: Yes.

Phil Hayes: Do you need your sheet to read the amount?

Ralph Kissinger: I've got one here. There are two bids on the project. Freightliner of Evansville bid $44,446.53 and Ruxer Truck bid $50,900.00 and Phil Lawrence recommended that Freightliner be awarded the bid.

Commissioner Fanello: So moved.

Commissioner Mourdock: Second.

President Mosby: Motion and second, so ordered.

Ralph Kissinger: I have one more question pertaining to what the property owners in the Westchester area, if there is a Barrett Law to do the project will that mean that the roads be accepted by the county and maintained by the county afterwards?

Commissioner Mourdock: Yes, that would certainly be a condition of what we would issue to them in agreeing to work with them for the bonding.

John Stoll: In the past Barrett Law projects that we have had, when the plans are developed by the consultants, they are submitted to my office for review. We make sure that they do comply with county standards and then we have an inspector on site while the project is being built and that way we can make sure that it is being done properly and we accept it after that.

Commissioner Mourdock: When it's bid, do they bid the price of that inspector as well? 

John Stoll: No, they don't.

Ralph Kissinger: The reason that I ask this is that we have a lot of, right now we are replacing a lot of concrete, especially in the Green Acres areas where the hills and dales and the concrete streets are. The water gets under them and undermines the streets and I just, you know, make sure that when we do these projects that they are up to code.

Commissioner Mourdock: No concrete roads.

Ralph Kissinger: If they are concrete they need to be sub-based with something besides mud. That is all I have, thank you. Any questions?

President Mosby: Thank you. County attorney, do you have anything.
 

Phil Hayes - County Attorney

Phil Hayes: Yes, a couple of items. One is that the matter of the settlement on the jail litigation with the ACLU has been stipulated and submitted to the court for approval to extend finalization until July 13, and that is a motion pending before the judge. On June 11, we will have a telephone conference with the court and part of the attorneys appearing here in court in order to give the judge a progress assessment on entering into the final settlement. Mr. Ahlers, for the County Council, will be submitting his recommendations to the County Council, I think in an Executive Session, and we'll have the results of that plus a couple of changes that have been discussed here in meetings that we have had on it. When I say changes, they are not necessarily changes. I think they were phrased more in the sense of making sure that there were not untoward consequences of part of the proposal or past of the proposal and what to do about pending cases and that kind of thing. So, in a general statement, I think I could say that the parties are coming close. I think that maybe we have four items that we want to get taken care of and I know Mr. Bodkin talked to the Sheriff about a couple of changes. So, we hope to see something probably by the end of this week or the very first of next.

Commissioner Mourdock: That July 13 date that you mentioned is the date by which we are all agreeing to have those final four things resolved? 

Phil Hayes: Correct. That is correct.

Commissioner Mourdock: To include the dates.

Phil Hayes: And to include the dates that are necessary to fill out or to otherwise amend the previous court's order. I think that the parties are all satisfied that all of that can be done. The plaintiffs, of course, need some reassurance considering the population numbers that they have been seeing and I am not really sure how that is going to be addressed but I think that Tom is going to be talking to the Sheriff about some items that can be put into the agreement. If that is satisfactorily vague, I will end my report.

President Mosby: Okay..

Phil Hayes: I could make it vaguer, I think.
 

Tammy McKinney - Superintendent of County Buildings

President Mosby: Superintendent of County Buildings.

Tammy McKinney: I have a late consent item from Sandie Aaron. It was one of your pieces of paper on your desk. Their request to go before County Council on Wednesday, this Wednesday the 6^th, for a transfer from, I think, their water line item into their gas line item for the utilities bills.

Commissioner Mourdock: I will move addition of the two items to the consent file.

Commissioner Fanello: Second.

President Mosby: Second and so ordered.

Tammy McKinney: Roger Lehman gave me a GIS work plan that goes along with his agreement that he presented tonight, just like a time schedule. He just wanted me basically to read into the minutes and say that he will be giving an update to the Commission before budget time.

President Mosby: Okay.

Tammy McKinney: That one and the one before.

President Mosby: Okay.

Tammy McKinney: That's all that I have.

Commissioner Mourdock: Tammy, on your work reports can you give us, and it doesn't have to be minute by minute I am just curious, how many hours you have got listed there all of the different tasks that are being done at the Old Courthouse? How many man hours is that taking per week? You don't have to answer right now. I would like to keep track of that as well because that is obviously going to be part of our ongoing cost at some point. So, if we could start tracking those hours that would be helpful.

Tammy McKinney: Okay. Well, that is between John and I and that's not saying that we basically open and close, but- 

Commissioner Mourdock: But I meant all of the things like polishing the brass handrail and installing the toilet paper and whatever hours we have manpower wise being spent there.

Tammy McKinney: Okay.

President Mosby: That would include your work release, too.

Tammy McKinney: Here lately he has not been getting any.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, well that is the kind of thing that I would like to keep track of.

Tammy McKinney: Okay. He lets me know, I mean, on his report to me, you know, if he does have Community Corrections or not.

President Mosby: Include Ralph's like cutting grass and stuff like that, so that we know how many man hours are there.

Tammy McKinney: Okay.

President Mosby: Burdette Park.
 

Steve Craig - Burdette Park

Steve Craig: Steve Craig, Manager of Burdette Park. All of our pools, all four of them, are full and operating and all of the repairs have been done and taken care of. Everything was running good when I left. When you have a 40 year old pool, you don't know if it will be that way in the morning. Everything looks good and is running good right now. We have had good crowds in the park. I mean, the park has been packed on the weekends and stuff and we have crowds during the week, but of course the pool has been slow. It is nothing that we did, but the weather has been kind of dictating the pool. Other than that I have my worksheets and that is about it. I think that I have some other things to say but I forgot.

Commissioner Mourdock: In the minutes that you submitted, there was a comment in there about some discussion about buying that Austill property that we always lease. I presume from that you really don't need to, we just renewed the lease a week or so ago.

Steve Craig: Correct.

Commissioner Mourdock: Was there any real adamant discussion? Was Austill wanting to lease it or is that something that the board just wants?

Steve Craig: No, what Mr. Austill is doing, that was a point that I wanted to bring up, he owns 13 ½ acres approximately on the far side of our baseball diamonds and he is going to sell them. He wanted to give us first opportunity to buy all of the property, part of the property, yeah, and there is approximately three acres from the center of the creek to the ball diamonds that we do lease for the $400 a year for parking for our baseball. He said that he would sell us that small portion off and then sell the rest to other people. But, he was giving us the option of buying all of the property if we saw fit that we could use it in the future at Burdette.

Commissioner Mourdock: So, are we suppose to formalize and again the notes from the board meeting were clear, other than they thought we ought to pursue it. Has there been any discussion with Mr. Austill as far as we start to work with him to come up with a price.

Steve Craig: He had come and talked with me and I told him that the starting point with me would be to get an appraisal on the property and we would work from there. At the time that I talked to him, they hadn't even brought it up at the board meeting yet. He had just proposed that to me and I brought it up at the board meeting and I was going to bring it up with you guys tonight. He had asked me what we was willing to pay for it and you need to get an appraisal by an accredited appraiser and they would start from there. He was going to give us the option of buying all three. One side of the creek there is probably one place where you could build two or three chalets or buildings and that's on the high ground. Once you get below the creek it is farm ground, which a suggestion had been made that they could be made into soccer fields. I don't know if that's...if they can or not. I don't know the layout of the ground exactly and then the third parcel, of course, is what we use or lease from him to use for parking right now. So, I mean we could buy three acres or we could buy seven acres or 13 ½ acres or we could not buy it at all. But I would like to buy the parking area in case the new person that would buy it would start charging us a lot higher rent or not want to rent it to us and make it not accessible to the park no more. But the other property would all be debatable.

Commissioner Mourdock: I guess this is a suggestion here to the board and I couldn't go out and put my finger on this property, but I know that we have leased it year after year which means there is a sense of importance to it. Maybe we should go ahead and hire our own appraiser and have somebody go out and take a look at it so that we are ready to move fairly quickly if in fact we want part of this.

President Mosby: I do know what part he is talking about.

Commissioner Mourdock: You do know?

President Mosby: Yes. (Inaudible - microphone not on.)

Steve Craig: Yes, sir.

Commissioner Mourdock: I will move that the Superintendent of County Buildings contact an appraiser so that we can get that property appraised.

Commissioner Fanello: Second.

Commissioner Mourdock: And just to clarify, I think that we ought to look at all of the property. We may not want all of the property, but at least look at the whole thing.

President Mosby: (Inaudible, microphone not turned on.)
 

Steve Craig: Okay, thank you.
 

Soil & Water Conservation District/Ozone Officer reports

Commissioner Mourdock: I will move approval of the reports filed by the Soil and Water Conservation District and the Ozone Officer.

Commissioner Fanello: Second.

President Mosby: Motion seconded, so ordered.
 

Consent items

Commissioner Fanello: I will move approval of the consent items.

Commissioner Mourdock: Second.

President Mosby: Motion and seconded, so ordered.
 

Old business

Commissioner Mourdock: The only bit of old business that I have is that several weeks ago we sent a letter to Steve Utley with the Building Authority. He did respond and I would suggest that either the three of us schedule a time to sit down and talk about that, the plans that are presented or otherwise move somehow onto the documents that he has given us to see if we can find some way to get some new court room space.

Commissioner Fanello: Um, what did you say? I don't' know what you said.

President Mosby: (Inaudible - microphone not turned on.)

Commissioner Mourdock: Phil, you can give us some guidance here?

Phil Hayes: I don't think I know what letter you are talking about.

Commissioner Mourdock: That's all right. The letter isn't the issue for the guidance. It is imperative that the Commissioners talk about this series of documents we have. We can certainly do it here in this room, do it openly, do it publicly, whatever, but we have to have some form of discussion. It is not necessarily something that is necessarily pertinent or would need to be done in a regular meeting. But do you have suggestions as to how we can do that?

Phil Hayes: The docs being the?

Commissioner Mourdock: What Steve Utley has prepared to us.

Commissioner Fanello: He gave us a drawing.

Commissioner Mourdock: Using a floor plan possibly coming up with more space for the courts building. He gave us several sets of floor plans and suggested that this could be done differently, this could be done differently and this could be differently.

Commissioner Fanello: So we need to sit down and come to some consensus on how we want to allocate space. 

Phil Hayes: Well, offhand I really don't know the distinction between that and the, you know, plan for having title companies come in and do business with the Recorder's Office. I mean, I truly don't.

Commissioner Mourdock: I mean in the sense of open door.

Commissioner Fanello: It is because we are talking about all three of us meeting at the same time. 

Phil Hayes: Right and it is allocations of space in the courts building and over here.

Commissioner Mourdock: Under the broadest readings of open door it could be an Executive Session because it is about space we lease and real estate, which that is under the broadest reading, but I would really rather not go that way.

Phil Hayes: I don't think so. I think it's because it is from the Building Authority. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah.

Phil Hayes: Yeah, with all do respect to the need to recognize sensitivities, I have a feeling that the rule that it is simply public business about where to move the furniture is what it amounts to because we are stuck here. I don't think that there is any option. If we were going to an option to go out to the private market place, Old National Bank or any of the landlords, I think that would be where the executive aspect of this would bite in. But I fee confident that this a matter for public deliberation, I think.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, if we were to say, and I will just make up a time, that at 3:00 on Thursday that the three of us were going to meet in this room to talk about that, what does that mean?

Phil Hayes: You would notice, you would need to advertise.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, what time works, folks?

Commissioner Fanello; Let's see, what day are we talking about?

Commissioner Mourdock: How much advance notice do we need to give?

Phil Hayes: May I ask, is there at this point, do you intend to take final action or is it necessary for everybody to meet on it?

Commissioner Fanello: I don't know that we'll take final action.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, that's a great suggestion. 

Phil Hayes: It really comes down to whether or not you get comment on it or whatever. But if the three of you are going to meet it is definitely going to be a public meeting.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, how about this. How about if we advertise that we will meet at 4:30. Next week we have Solid Waste at 5:00. We would advertise that we will meet at 4:30 to talk for a half hour, I guess, as a special meeting to discuss the floor plans and where to move the furniture.

Phil Hayes: Sure, that is what it amounts to.

Commissioner Mourdock: I will make that a motion.

Commissioner Fanello: Second.

President Mosby: Motion and a second, so ordered.

Charlene Timmons: Can you please tell me how soon you need that in the paper in order to make it legal?

Phil Hayes: Well, 48 hours, 48 hours notice.

Charlene Timmons: Is somebody going to draft it?

Phil Hayes: I don't know that you need to get it in the paper. I mean you are talking about a special meeting, aren't we?

Commissioner Fanello: For that specific purpose?

Phil Hayes: Yeah.

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, for that specific purpose.

Phil Hayes: Advertisements call for it, is it...I think it is our option as to whether we want to advertise it or not. I think that we can. We just had these same matters recently. We had a meeting on a single issue, what was that just recently, didn't we, Charlene?

Suzanne Crouch: Oh, the jail issue in February.

Phil Hayes: And I drafted-

Suzanne Crouch: We did advertise that.

Phil Hayes: But that as a...it was an advertisement for a convenience rather than a legal requirement, I think we decided.

Tammy McKinney: Can I not just send out a fax like I do when you have an Executive Session? Would that work?

Phil Hayes: That's different. That's a different kind of notice in regard to that. This is a matter of setting an agenda. I would go ahead and advertise it if you're going to do that. Let's just advertise it and end the process because we do have an agenda, it's a single issue agenda, but we have it.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move then that we have an advertisement for 4:30 next Monday for the sole purpose of talking about floor space allocation.

Commissioner Fanello: Second.

Phil Hayes: You going to have time to do that? 

Charlene Timmons: Are you going to draft me a notice? 

Phil Hayes: Sure.

Charlene Timmons: If you put it in the paper on Friday is that enough notice?

Phil Hayes: That will be a total of...boy, that's 48 hours. No, no it's not Monday. It's going to be...it should be 72 hours. Well, let's go with it and I'll talk to you in the morning. I'll go look at my handy trusty handbook. 

President Mosby: I have a motion and second to advertise for a meeting for Monday at 4:30, so ordered. Any other old business? 
 

New business

President Mosby: New business? I have a letter (inaudible, mike not on.) 

Commissioner Mourdock: He has been a very good board member.

President Mosby: (Inaudible.)

Commissioner Mourdock: Pardon? Oh, right I had forgotten he had even done that. 

President Mosby: (Inaudible.)

Commissioner Fanello: We still need to make a Park's Board appointment, too.

President Mosby: Any other new business? Anything else? 

Commissioner Fanello: Motion to adjourn.

Commissioner Mourdock: Second.

President Mosby: So ordered.

The meeting was adjourned at 8:40 p.m.
 

CONSENT ITEMS:

Employment Changes:
German Assessor 
Voters Registration 
Circuit Court
Pigeon Assessor 
Prosecutor 
Sheriff's Dept.
Burdette Park 
Recorder 
Community Corrections
County Council

Travel Requests:
Health Dept. 
County Assessor 
SCWD
Perry Assessor

County Clerk:
Monthly report

Treasurer:
Monthly report

Sheriff:
Community Corrections request
Weekly jail information and reports

THOSE IN ATTENDANCE:
David W. Mosby 
Catherine Fanello 
Richard E. Mourdock
Philip Hayes 
Suzanne M. Crouch 
Tammy McKinney
Charlene Timmons 
Roger Lehman 
Brad Ellsworth
Eric Williams 
Bill Jeffers 
Jonathan Weinzapfel
Steve Perry 
Richard Helzerman 
Don Burton
John Stoll 
Ralph Kissinger 
Steve Craig
Others unidentified 
Members of the media
 

APPROVAL:
VANDERBURGH COUNTY
BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS

______________________________
David W. Mosby, President

______________________________
Catherine Fanello, Vice President

______________________________
Richard E. Mourdock, Member
 

Recorded by Charlene Timmons.

Transcribed by Charlene Timmons, Teri Lukeman, B.J. Farrell, Todd Hochstetler