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Special Space Allocation Meeting June 3, 2002
The Vanderburgh County Board of Commissioners met in special session this 3rd day of June, 2002 at 4:30 p.m. in Room 307 of the Civic Center Complex with President Catherine Fanello presiding. President Fanello: Call to order space allocation meeting for County Commissioners, June 3, 2002. I guess you have before you, Richard, Patty worked on organizing all the results of the surveys, and Dave Rector was very helpful to go through and read all of the surveys we got back, so he's attending the meeting. I appreciate his hard work in helping us get this information together. I don't know if you've had time to read it or not. I've had time to skim it, but not read it in it's entirety. So, if you have, do you have any questions, so far? Or anything that- Commissioner Mourdock: That's where I've been too. I've skimmed it, and trying to get some sense of how it was put together here on the matrix, but, Dave, if you, did you assemble this? Dave Rector: No, Patty pulled this together. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Okay. Dave Rector: She did a tremendous job of it. Madelyn Grayson: Mr. Rector, can you come to the microphone please? President Fanello: And- Dave Rector: No, Patty had pulled it together, and did just a tremendous job of it, summarizing it, and we've just been talking about trying to determine what the observations are from this. I think once you get a chance to look at, you are going to see some things that kind of stand out. Commissioner Mourdock: What do you think we're going to see that will stand out? Dave Rector: Storage you'll see on there. Most departments need storage space. Conference facilities, a lot of them are wanting their own conference rooms. The way I was looking at it, too, was trying to determine what do we have for future growth needs? What do we have for immediate needs for expansion? Where do we expand and how? And can we, obviously, I haven't been here for a long time yet, but just looking around the building trying to identify do we have any opportunities to provide some areas of increased demands for these folks? I don't have that determination yet. Obviously, that's your decision. President Fanello: We spoke, Mr. Rector and I spoke last week, and we were going over this information, and he is currently in the process, I think, of putting all of the records on CAD- Dave Rector: Trying to. President Fanello: -lay out. Dave Rector: What we are hoping to do long term here is, I want to try to scan all the blue prints that we have onto a CAD system, so that then we can do some modeling, and space allocation, and try to do some overlays and see when we need to move around? Can we? Will it fit, and how? It's going to take a little while to get that done, but I think it's going to help all of us to try to identify will spaces fit into other spaces. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Not necessarily, or I'm making an assumption, am I correct, you're not looking to do that with CAD, necessarily, as an actual engineering, architectural design for modifications? But, just trying to see how space could be modified? Dave Rector: Yes. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Dave Rector: Yes. Commissioner Mourdock: Because there would be a lot of design work, I would think. Dave Rector: No, this isn't design work. As I said, I guess, modeling is more the better term to use. Commissioner Mourdock: I was looking for the...yeah, okay. President Fanello: But I think we are going to have to have, obviously, his input and help as we try and figure out what our options are here. I think the main question, as I look over these surveys, I mean, the main question that we need to answer right now, besides what do we do with this space here in the Civic Center is, are we ready to go ahead and make a determination of what we are going to use the Old Courthouse facility for? And how that comes into play with analyzing these results. Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. President Fanello: I, personally, I mean, I think it's time for us to make a decision of what we need to use the Old Courthouse for. It's pretty simple for me, and I don't have any problem saying it, I think it needs to be used as a government facility. I think we need to make strides, and if that's the case, and we all agree on that, then that needs to become part of this space allocation plan. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, and, certainly, that use of the building is what I've said for some time as well. It's just a matter of who, when, and how much? President Fanello: I think that's what we need to determine as we go through and analyze these results, is to work the Old Courthouse into these results, and see what offices we can possibly move over there. I see us, possibly, using that facility for some storage area, at least, at this point. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah. I would like to see it something more than storage myself. President Fanello: Oh, exactly, but for an immediate- Commissioner Mourdock: Are you looking to put the Old Courthouse on CAD too, Dave? Do you have anything to work on to do that? Dave Rector: I certainly would support you in doing that. That doesn't fall underneath our jurisdiction, but I think if we are going to look at some of these modeling opportunities, we're going to have to have all the facilities available, to see where it might fit. I really don't want to elaborate right now, but- Commissioner Mourdock: (Inaudible. Talking over each other.) Dave Rector: -I think it may even, I know we don't think we have space in this building, but I think we may have if we take a look at some considerations. President Fanello: To answer your question, should it be under their jurisdiction? I think we would need to get, you know, obviously, prices from them on what they would see it. Obviously, prices from them on what they would see as a budget for that facility. Commissioner Mourdock: Between the two we might work out some reasonable rate. Dave Rector: We haven't been (Inaudible). I haven't caught up with you yet. I have been able to catch a number of the office holders, and our goal is to provide a cost effective, efficient service to you all, and we're working on a means to do that. Hopefully, improving that for you. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah. I saw the letter that you sent through, so. It's something we need to look at. President Fanello: So, I guess, what we need to determine, right now, is how we want to proceed in the next few weeks as we try to put together a long term plan. Commissioner Mourdock: I guess, my, one of my first responses in looking at all of this is we seem to have a huge amount of data on an individual basis here from the courts. President Fanello: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Commissioner Mourdock: Everything else we do, pretty well, by department or office. First question is, should we look, continue to look at the courts with as many separate divisions as they have supplied to us? President Fanello: Well, I think, that probably might be a better question for them, because there may be reason, because you do have step...even though it is one facility over there, obviously, you have separate domains, I guess you could call them. Commissioner Mourdock: (Inaudible), I guess you could call them. President Fanello: Maybe. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, I think, my point is, if we look at them individually- President Fanello: Uh-huh. Commissioner Mourdock: -I think you're going to see a lot more demand for space, because each one of them is going to try to get a little more, a little more. President Fanello: Uh-huh. Commissioner Mourdock: Where as when we look at every other department, I have a hunch, while they probably all want more space too, they're looking at a bigger picture than what these individuals are. President Fanello: Uh-huh. I don't know if you received any letters from Judge Tornatta or Judge Niemeier, but they did not respond, because they felt like their responses were adequately contained in the bar association report that was given to us. Commissioner Mourdock: I have not seen that from them. President Fanello: Patty does have a copy of those letters. I mean, obviously, the courts is the biggest set of responses that we have. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Right. So, Dave, as you work to put everything on CAD, are you going to...well, first of all, when do you think you will have the existing building, this building and the Courts building, on a CAD system? Dave Rector: I hope to be able to get that done in the next several weeks. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Dave Rector: I think we can scan, the condition of the drawings, we do have the originals, I think we can scan those in, and, you know, the cost is going to be the key factor. I don't know how much it's going to cost me to get it all done, but I'm not going to do everything. I'm just going to do the basic floor plans, then try to get "as- builts" done. My hope is that within the next month. You bring up a good point, in looking at these departmentally versus as a whole too, you are going to see a lot of multiple requests that might be able- Commissioner Mourdock: Right. Dave Rector: -to be handled, if they were combined, versus everybody is looking at their own needs. Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. Dave Rector: We might be able to meet those needs if, as a multiple. Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. Once you have everything on CAD, is it your plan then to use these data that we've just collected, and try to- Dave Rector: To use this data that Catherine's gotten for us, and then, as I said earlier, who has immediate needs for additional space? Who has future needs for additional space? Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. Dave Rector: Then whatever happens with the future growth of the jail, and how that's happening, what places may be vacated, and how that space may then better fit some of these departments versus the other departments. Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. Dave Rector: It kind of grows, and like chewing wax, it expands. Commissioner Mourdock: We'll take that one at face value. I've never heard that one. Dave Rector: You don't remember doing that as a kid? Commissioner Mourdock: No. President Fanello: Even though, obviously, the Building Authority does not have jurisdiction over the Old Courthouse, if that continues, I mean, we would probably need those records placed on a CAD system. Would there be a cost you could bill back to us for doing that- Dave Rector: Yeah, sure. President Fanello: -for you, or something? Or for doing that for us? Dave Rector: It would be a cost per sheet, so I'll know exactly what it- President Fanello: Okay. Dave Rector: Where are the drawings for the Old Courthouse? Do we know that? President Fanello: Where are they? That I am not aware of. Commissioner Mourdock: Tammy would probably have the best handle on what we have. President Fanello: Uh-huh. Dave Rector: Okay, well, I'll talk with her. Commissioner Mourdock: It won't be anything in the kind of detail you have from 1969, certainly. Dave Rector: I understand. Sure. President Fanello: I think that would have to be a part of this process. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, I still think- Dave Rector: The other factor over there is, the condition of some of the areas- President Fanello: Uh-huh. Dave Rector: -and how can they be used for some functions, and not for others. President Fanello: And, I don't know, we had a Task Force put together last year that reviewed the Old Courthouse, and made several suggestions. It might be helpful if you read that report. Dave Rector: Okay. President Fanello: Tammy does have a copy of that report. Dave Rector: Does she? Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. President Fanello: Yes. It identified some of the immediate needs, repairs that need to be made. I believe we need a full restoration of the facility, and that will require a significant amount of money at one time. Dave Rector: Sure. President Fanello: Which would probably have to be done through a bond issue, but I just think that if we are going to turn it into a true government facility, I don't know that we can patch work repairs here and there to make it work. So, I do believe a complete restoration is in order. Dave Rector: (Inaudible) cost benefit ratio of- President Fanello: Uh-huh. Commissioner Mourdock: Well, I've said it many times, I think that's the only facility in Vanderburgh County people would willingly look to have their taxes increased for. President Fanello: And I did, just while we're talking about the Old Courthouse, real quickly, before Kevin left on, well, a couple of weeks before Kevin left on vacation, he's checking out the logistics and the legalities of an Old Courthouse fund. So, he was going to report back to me. Report back to us on that. Commissioner Mourdock: That's what the Council started toward at one point too. President Fanello: Well, they had talked about it, yeah, but theirs, we're not sure who's responsibilities are what. So, he was going to check that out and see what their responsibilities are versus what our responsibilities are. Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. President Fanello: Or what authorities they have versus what authorities we have. Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. President Fanello: To set that fund up. Commissioner Mourdock: Well, I'll say again too, I think the Old Courthouse ought to be the courts center. I mean, I think a lot of what's going on in the building behind us right now, ought to be over there. I know a lot of Judges don't like that because they don't see what the building could be, they have a lot of concerns about the simpler things, like the acoustics and everything else, but courthouses across the state have been revitalized and redone and they are super facilities. That's what I see, ultimately, being the potential over here. It will cost money. President Fanello: Well, I see more, used more for other government offices. Clearly, for what we've been talking about throughout this whole jail project, and that's if we move that court facility over there, you are, once again, moving it away from the jail facility. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, I'm not suggesting that everything there would be able to move over, but I think there is a lot of stuff that could go there. Dave Rector: And you all would have to decide do you do renovations by Secretary of Interior standards for historic preservation? Or do you do it by more of basic construction means today, but still have the appearance of historical restoration? There's a whole difference in that cost impact? Commissioner Mourdock: Uh-huh. President Fanello: Uh-huh. Commissioner Mourdock: Is that place on the historical register? I presume it is. President Fanello: I thought it was. Commissioner Mourdock: I don't know. Dave Rector: I did not think they'd registered that. (Inaudible. Talking over each other.) President Fanello: I'm pretty sure, I thought I'd read in the Task Force report- Dave Rector: Did you register it? President Fanello: -that it was. I may be wrong. Dave Rector: Just because it is on the....if it is on the register, that does not mean it has to be done by the Secretary of Interior standards. President Fanello: Okay. When does that- Dave Rector: I just looked into that on another project up in Terre Haute. I thought that it would have, but in looking, it did not have to be. Commissioner Mourdock: So, even if it's on the register- Dave Rector: It did not have to- Commissioner Mourdock: -if you are going to continue to use it, but primarily maintain the decor that's there, you still have some leeway. Dave Rector: Yes. President Fanello: So, when did we set our next meeting? I know we set two dates. Suzanne Crouch: June 24th. President Fanello: June 24th? Do you think that will be enough time to? Commissioner Mourdock: I think the key thing is with that- Dave Rector: I don't know what our urgency is. I would have thought...you got a really good turn around on your response to this- President Fanello: Uh-huh. Very good. Dave Rector: The sensitivity around it, I would have thought you would have seen multiple people here tonight. Maybe it's not as urgent. Maybe it is. I'm going to let you guys give me that direction. President Fanello: I think it's very urgent that we come up with a long term plan, because, obviously, there is budgeting issues associated with it. I think we're...this county is going to be facing a lot of budget constraints next year. A lot of different things are coming into play. So, I see an urgency from knowing where, how much we need to budget for renovations, if we need to- Dave Rector: Okay. President Fanello: -or if we need to make modifications somewhere. Then also there is several departments, obviously, that are climbing on top of each other. So, I definitely want to try and alleviate some of their problems as soon as possible. So, I mean, I do place it as a top priority. Dave Rector: We can put cost estimates with it, once we identify the needs. President Fanello: Okay. I would like to move as quickly as possible. Dave Rector: Okay. Commissioner Mourdock: If you have the CAD stuff done by the 24th, at least, you said a couple of weeks. Dave Rector: I hope so. Yeah, I've got a call in to one of the firms. There is only a couple of firms in town, that I'm aware of doing it, that has the scanning capabilities to get it into a CAD system. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Dave Rector: I'm waiting on a quote back from each of them. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Well, if it takes just a couple of weeks, today is the 3rd- President Fanello: Uh-huh. Commissioner Mourdock: -so that would give you three full weeks. President Fanello: It gives you about three weeks. Dave Rector: Then we can start playing with things after that. President Fanello: Okay. So, does that give us enough time to go over- Dave Rector: I just got a computer in my office, so, it's not even CAD capable yet. President Fanello: Are there any other questions? Comments? Commissioner Mourdock: Just anyone else here who would wish to talk to the issue, I guess. President Fanello: Does anybody else have any comments in the audience? Commissioner Mourdock: Seeing none. I will move that we adjourn. President Fanello: Adjourned. The meeting was adjourned at 4:45
p.m.
Those in attendance:
*Joined the meeting late.
APPROVAL
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Recorded and Transcribed by Madelyn Grayson. |
