VANDERBURGH COUNTY

BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS

JULY 1, 2008

The Vanderburgh County Board of Commissioners met in session this 1^st day of July, 2008 at 5:00 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with President Jeff Korb presiding.

President Korb: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and those of you watching at home on television. This is the July 1^st Board of Commissioners meeting. I would like to have introductions first to my right.

Marissa Nichoalds: Marissa Nichoalds, Superintendent of County Buildings.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Ted Ziemer, County Attorney.

Commissioner Nix: Bill Nix, County Commissioner.

President Korb: Jeff Korb, County Commissioner.

Commissioner Tornatta: Troy Tornatta, County Commissioner.

Madelyn Grayson: Madelyn Grayson, Recording Secretary.

Bill Fluty: Bill Fluty, County Auditor.

President Korb: With that, we call this meeting to order. If you would please, join with me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

(The Pledge of Allegiance was given.)

President Korb: Action items, the first item we have on the agenda tonight is Girls in Bloom, Patty Avery. Patty? There you are.

Patty Avery: Hi, there.

President Korb: You’ve got your pink on. Thata girl.

Patty Avery: Absolutely.

President Korb: Yeah, good job.

Patty Avery: You know, it took a few months to recover from the February event, but, as you may recall, at the end of February last year we were dealing with all kinds of inclement weather. The two weeks preceding the event, five of the ten school days were actually snow days. We went into a full court press with the media to assure everyone that the event would continue. We were actually very pleased that our overall participation, the number of girls, parents, teachers, presenters was absolutely even with last year. So, we were extremely pleased, with that weather situation, that we were able to maintain what we had achieved the year before. We had hoped to grow, but given the weather, we were content to have maintained. We did 13 workshops an hour this year. Ann Topper, who’s here, did a tremendous job managing that calendar. It was quite an adventure, as she’ll attest, but the girls had a tremendous day. We saw an increase in the number of counties that the girls came from, so the reach of the program is expanding tremendously. One of the things then that we wanted to tell you, as we’ve grown and things have moved on, and lives have changed, it’s come time for me to step aside. Ann is now the event director for Girls in Bloom. So, she’s the one who’ll be in contact with you regarding next year’s event, which is scheduled and already booked for February 28^th of next year. So, my five years of directing the event, which started, of course, when I sat in the desk in front of Marissa’s, and came out of the Commissioners office. It’s been a real privilege to see this event take shape and grow. There’s nothing more gratifying than working yourself out of job. This year the committee, it got to the point where I realized, I’m just being copied on e-mails, they can run with this. So, and because of my work on the Homeless Youth Coalition, I realized I needed to invest time in making sure that we move forward and get a youth shelter in Evansville. So, my focus will be more on that now. But, the committee is fully established. We’ve got a good steering committee in place, and they’ll be moving into strategic planning actually in July to more deeply establish the organization. So, Ann will be your contact, and, as I said, Girls in Bloom, what is this, six now, is, as I said, slated for February 28^th.

President Korb: I will tell you, I was there on registration day wearing my pink t-shirt, and I got more abuse.

Patty Avery: Do you still have it?

President Korb: Yeah. No, I do still have it, as a matter of fact. I wear it only in the house, but I don’t go out with it. Thank you, Patty, for five years of incredible work. I mean, you started from scratch.

(Applause)

President Korb: It was interesting to me, as I was sitting there watching, the parents were almost as much into this, as they brought their children and dropped them off, as the kids were. Which, to me, is a real testimony to the fact that it’s an effective program that adults also enjoy. So, and it’s very important, as you know, Commissioners, we help underwrite that a little bit, and we are happy to continue that participation. So, again, thank you so much. Ann, it’s nice to meet you, and who is standing to your right, Patty?

Patty Avery: This is Kay Johnson. She is the steering committee chair–

President Korb: Okay.

Patty Avery: –for the, as I said, a broader steering committee has now been established.

President Korb: Great.

Patty Avery: Diane Bremmer, who’s been involved with the event several years now is also here.

President Korb: Great.

Patty Avery: So, you know, as I’ve told you before, I really see this event as a tremendous example of public-private partnership–

President Korb: Yeah.

Patty Avery: –that has evolved. You know, we’ve built a tremendous group of supporters within the corporate community in town, and great relationships with the universities and with the EVSC. So, this is an event that has already become an Evansville institution and is poised to remain as such for years and years to come.

President Korb: Great. Congratulations to you, Patty. Thank you so much.

Patty Avery: Thank you.

President Korb: Ladies, it’s very nice to meet you. Commissioners, any questions for Patty? Great. Job well done. Thank you very much.

Patty Avery: While I have the microphone, please mark on your calendars July 13^th. I’ll put on my Cancer Society Cancer Action Network hat, very briefly.

President Korb: Is this a shameless plug?

Patty Avery: It is. Well, you are all three invited–

President Korb: It’s very important that we identify these as shameless plugs.

Patty Avery: As shameless plugs.

President Korb: Yeah.

Patty Avery: Well, actually this saves me sending you a letter to invite you, but you are all three heartily invited. We have a bus that’s traveling the country promoting our issues, the Fight Back Express, and it will be at Old National on July 13^th, that’s a Sunday, with the program beginning at 1:30.

President Korb: Old National downtown?

Patty Avery: Bank, yes, right downtown on the river.

President Korb: Downtown on Main Street? Okay.

Patty Avery: It’s a terrific thing. This bus is traveling the lower 48 states visiting communities. We’re very fortunate that it’s actually coming to Evansville.

President Korb: Great.

Patty Avery: So, I would like to invite you all to that. So, you see, you can never count on me when you know I’ll plug something else while I’m at the mic, so.

President Korb: Great.

Ann Topper: Can we give one more shameless plug?

President Korb: Absolutely.

Ann Topper: This is Kay, I’m going to let her give it. Something else, we have, our organization is working on giving back, because of everything we’ve been given. So, I’m going to let Kay tell you something that we’re giving back and that we’re working on.

President Korb: Great.

Kay Johnson: First, I would like to thank Patty for the five years that she’s given to the organization. I look forward to working with Ann, as the director of the February event. Because of your initial support, and continuing support, as chairman, chairperson of the steering committee, and actually founder of Girls in Bloom, we are going to be moving into the other 12 projects that were on our original list. One of those being a Girls in Bloom library. Because of your support, we (inaudible) the recognition in the community, and we feel that we can move toward these. So, we are in the process of developing a Girls in Bloom lending library in cooperation with Willard Library. So, you have a small part in helping us build that recognition.

President Korb: Great. Will that be in Willard Library?

Kay Johnson: It will be in Willard Library. I hope to bring you some more news about this in the fall. We’ll probably have a ceremony, a little ribbon cutting. We’re now in the process of buying books for the library.

President Korb: Great. Congratulations. You’ll enjoy working with Greg there, if you haven’t already. He does a wonderful job. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Patty, would you, at some convenience just give me a call about the youth homeless shelter, please?

Patty Avery: Yes.

President Korb: Thank you.

President Korb: Alright, the next item on the agenda is the first and final reading of CO.07-08-014, an ordinance concerning off road vehicles. This ordinance is allowing the use of off road vehicles on county gravel roads with a speed limit of 20 miles per hour. I guess, what we need is a motion to approve.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: No, you need–

Commissioner Tornatta: Waive the first reading.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: – a motion to waive second reading.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second reading.

President Korb: Okay. We need that motion.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to waive second reading.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

Commissioner Tornatta: Roll call.

Commissioner Nix: Roll call.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Roll call.

President Korb: Roll call. How can I miss it when I get it in stereo here. It’s good. Commissioner Nix?

Commissioner Nix: I vote yes.

President Korb: Commissioner Tornatta.

Commissioner Tornatta: Yes.

President Korb: Commissioner Korb votes yes. The motion passes. Public comment? Or do we do second now?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Now you vote on first reading to adopt the ordinance.

President Korb: I need a motion.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve CO.07-08-014, an ordinance concerning off road vehicles.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. Public comment?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: No. Roll call.

President Korb: No? Roll call. Commissioner Nix?

Commissioner Nix: Yes.

President Korb: Commissioner Tornatta?

Commissioner Tornatta: Yes.

President Korb: Commissioner Korb votes yes. How about now, Counselor?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: That’s the end of the roll calls anyway.

President Korb: What I would like to do real quickly, because I’ve had several phone calls on this today. I mean, I can describe it in layman’s terms, but, Counselor, if you would, please, share with the general public who’s watching what this is about and what we’re talking about doing. This is particularly for you people out there that own four wheel ATV’s and you want to drive them on the roads.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Well, the ordinance you’ve just approved tracks the Indiana Code, which defines what “off road vehicles” are, and sets certain registration requirements and so forth with regard to those. This ordinance doesn’t change any of that. The state statute allows the county to say whether or not “off road vehicles” can operate on county roads. What you have, in the ordinance you passed today, you’re permitting “off road vehicles” to operate on gravel roads in the county. Only gravel roads in the county. Those vehicles in doing that have to display placards indicating that they are slow moving vehicles, they have to have proper operation lights, can’t exceed 20 miles per hour, no passengers are permitted on the vehicle, and they have to comply with the ordinances of Vanderburgh County and the law of the State of Indiana regarding the use of public roadways. It provides a penalty for violation of this ordinance of a $50 fine, which will be paid to the Vanderburgh County Treasurer’s office.

President Korb: Placards for these, are these like slow moving vehicle placards?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Yes, yes.

President Korb: Commissioner Nix?

Commissioner Nix: Yeah, just the diamonds on the back.

President Korb: And they can get those?

Commissioner Nix: I think, is a flag sufficient also? Some type of flag?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Yes.

President Korb: Okay, I just wanted to be sure everybody understood that. So, that has been passed. If you have an all terrain vehicle, please be on the watch for policeman, hopefully, the Sheriff’s Department is out there, and keep it on the gravel roads. Commissioner Tornatta, you were instrumental in helping us get this going. Have you any comments for this?

Commissioner Tornatta: Nope.

President Korb: Okay.

Commissioner Tornatta: Thank you, Ted.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: You’re welcome.

President Korb: Next item is permission to advertise request for proposals for the property tax management system. Debbie Spalding is here to discuss. Debbie, welcome. It’s nice to see you today.

Debbie Spalding: Nice to see you.

President Korb: Just speak your name into the microphone.

Debbie Spalding: Debbie Spalding with the Purchasing Department.

President Korb: Thank you.

Debbie Spalding: I’ve been asked to prepare request for proposals for a tax management system. I’ll be working with the Auditor’s office and the Treasurer’s office to develop that request for proposals. Because the dollar amount is expected to exceed the $150,000, I’m here today to ask for your permission to advertise for this request for proposal.

President Korb: Is this a computer program? Or is this a service, a consulting service?

Debbie Spalding: It’s software, and the management, there’s an annual maintenance fee.

President Korb: Got it.

Debbie Spalding: It will allow the tax bills to be printed correctly, without much hitch.

Commissioner Nix: And, maybe long overdue too? I spoke for you, Mr. Fluty.

President Korb: Mr. Fluty is nodding his head.

Bill Fluty: Thank you for speaking for me.

Commissioner Nix: You’re quite welcome.

President Korb: So, we need a motion please.

Commissioner Nix: Move approval.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

Debbie Spalding: Thank you.

President Korb: Thanks, Debbie.

President Korb: Next is to award a quote VC08-06-01, the Old State Road culvert replacement to BMB, Incorporated for $54,097. Pat Seib is here from the County Engineer’s. Mr. Seib, welcome.

Patrick Seib: Thank you, and good afternoon. Patrick Seib, Assistant County Engineer. As you said, I would like to request approval to award the Old State Road culvert replacement to BMB for $54,097. This is a culvert that’s located on Old State Road just southwest of U.S. 41. It’s in the Town of Darmstadt. BMB said they plan to begin work immediately after we award it.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. Great.

Patrick Seib: Thank you.

President Korb: Is that it? Pat, while you’re here, let’s save you some time. We’ll go to the department head report, and then you may leave.

President Korb: You’ve got a second item that we’re noticing, that I’m noticing, purchase offers for University Parkway? Are you prepared to address that now?

Patrick Seib: I am. We have, I would like to request approval of three purchase offers for the University Parkway project. These are parcels number 21, number 23, and number 24. These are all owned by Eagleson Services of Mt. Vernon LLC. Each one is for $250, for a grand total of $750. These are just to cover the surface rights for the oil leases that are on these parcels where the new roadway is going to be going through.

Commissioner Nix: Move approval.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. Pat, you’re done. You may go.

Patrick Seib: Well, I’ve got one, there’s one more.

President Korb: Oh, you have one more?

Patrick Seib: There’s one more item. It appears under your–

President Korb: You’re not done?

Commissioner Nix: He’s got a few more.

President Korb: Oh, does he? Okay, go ahead.

Patrick Seib: Just, the other one is a request to approve the INDOT county agreement for the Oak Hill Road-Bergdolt project. This is going to cover the local and the federal shares of the construction costs on this project. Based on the agreement, $693,001 will be paid for in federal funds. The rest, $173,250, will be the county share. If anything goes over that combined total, all those funds will have to be paid by the county.

Commissioner Nix: Move approval.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? All I can say is I’m glad the federal government is coughing up that extra dollar.

Patrick Seib: It will be nice.

President Korb: Okay.

Patrick Seib: Very nice of them.

President Korb: Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

Patrick Seib: That’s all I’ve got unless you’ve got any other questions.

President Korb: Now you’re free to go.

Patrick Seib: Thank you.

President Korb: Thanks, Pat. Thanks for coming. Thanks for taking John’s place. Ladies and gentlemen John Stoll is not with us tonight.

President Korb: The next item we have on our agenda is the Commissioners budget for 2009. And, Commissioner Tornatta is going to go discuss something else. So, we can come back to that, you think, Commissioner Nix? Or, should we go ahead?

Commissioner Nix: We can move ahead I’m sure.

President Korb: Okay. Let’s see, Commissioners agreement with the Building Authority for retention of the new jail settlement agreement with the Evansville Vanderburgh County Building Authority to hold new jail settlement proceeds in an account for expenditure on new jail projects and renovations.

Commissioner Nix: I take it that was requested from Mr. Rector. I had spoken to him a week or two back about it. I guess it’s just a matter of a vote, Counselor? Anything else we need to do with that?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: No. It’s the proceeds from the settlement, and under this agreement the proceeds will be kept in a separate checking account, or CD, maintained by the Building Authority for expenditure only for jail improvements, consented to by both the Commissioners and the Building Authority.

Commissioner Nix: Commissioner Tornatta, I don’t if you had a chance to look at that?

Commissioner Tornatta: Uh-huh.

Commissioner Nix: Move approval.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

President Korb: Let’s go back and look at the budget for 2009, gentlemen. We have got to turn this in to the Auditor’s office, and, Mr. Fluty, we’ll do that at the end of this meeting.

Commissioner Nix: But, we still have the option to tweak this, or make some changes in the next few weeks? This is basically a preliminary, is that correct?

Bill Fluty: Well, this is your budget your turning in for 2009.

Commissioner Nix: I understand.

Bill Fluty: But, yes, we’ll be compiling those and be giving those to the Council, but if you want to make changes, hopefully, we can get those into the formal book that we’ll give the Council. But, if not, you can still make changes on the floor.

Commissioner Tornatta: What I would recommend is we go ahead and submit the budget as written, and then come budget time, or come anytime we have associated meetings with the Council, we can go over any cuts that we have. As long as we’re making cuts, I’m sure we’re in pretty good shape. There is one number that needs to be amended, and that is Examination of Records and Audit, 1300-3280, in the Commissioners budget and it should be $5,000.

President Korb: Instead of $100?

Commissioner Tornatta: It’s listed as $100, it should be $5,000. I think that that, it was just a misprint.

Commissioner Nix: You say it was 1380?

Commissioner Tornatta: 3280.

Commissioner Nix: Oh, excuse me, 3280.

Commissioner Tornatta: Page three on your booklet.

President Korb: You got that?

Commissioner Nix: Yeah.

President Korb: The other item that I would like to ask is item number 2031-4122, Buildings and Equipment, I would like to add $300,000 to that. We may not get it, but we can ask for it.

Commissioner Nix: I don’t have a problem with that.

President Korb: Okay.

Commissioner Tornatta: Motion to approve.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. Mr. Fluty, I’ll give you my copy, or, I’ll give it to Madelyn and she can bring it back to the office, okay? Great, thank you very much, gentlemen.

President Korb: The next item we have on our agenda for this evening is Commissioners-Building Commission interlocal agreement, CO.R-07-08-007, it’s the resolution approving interlocal agreement between the City of Evansville and the Vanderburgh County. David Jones, Bob Rock, Jonathan Weinzapfel, Jeff Korb, Marsha Abell, Lisa Acobert, and Bill Fluty met to discuss terms of the agreement. The changes eliminate the $50,000 Rainy Day Fund, and provide for monthly reporting to the County and City Auditors, I’m sorry, County Auditor and City Controller, and made effective date of January 1, 2009. With us tonight is Roger Lehman. Mr. Lehman, welcome.

Roger Lehman: Thank you.

President Korb: Please introduce yourself–

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Excuse me one second.

President Korb: Oh, I’m sorry.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Just to correct one thing there, that’s, your information, I think, is based on an e-mail that I sent you, and David Jones and Robert Rock were not at the meeting, though they’re aware, as I’m aware of what took place at the meeting.

President Korb: Okay.

Roger Lehman: Roger Lehman, Building Commissioner. Thank you, gentlemen, for hearing this this evening. I thank Commissioner Tornatta for his input. Over time we’ve thrown out some ideas and discussed some potential changes, and we’ve made changes, and unmade changes, and redid changes, and after the meeting with Councilperson Abell and the Mayor, this was the kind of final result, and, of course, President Korb. So, we would ask that the Commissioners approve the interlocal agreement in this form. It is scheduled to go to the County, or the City Council next, the 14^th of July. I would be glad to answer any questions.

Commissioner Tornatta: First of all, thank you, Roger, for kind of going through the process. I know that we thought we had it, and then we didn’t, and then we came back to having it again. So, I appreciate your resolve with making this thing come about, and all the people involved.

President Korb: Any other discussion? I need a motion to approve.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. Congratulations, Roger. Thank you very much for coming.

Roger Lehman: Thank you very much. Have a good day.

President Korb: Thank you.

Roger Lehman: Thank you, Auditor Fluty, too. He was in attendance at the meeting with our Controller, Lisa Acobert.

President Korb: That was a good meeting.

President Korb: The next item on our agenda is Drug Court, an agreement for professional services with Sheriff Michael Collins. This is an agreement for professional services between the County on behalf of the Day Reporting Drug Court and Deputy Sheriff Michael Collins. It is for the second home verification services position for which the Superior Court has a grant.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

President Korb: The next item is for the Prosecutor’s office, the PRI contract with AT&T for phone services, to be entered into between the County Commissioners and SBC Global on behalf of the Prosecutor’s office under the State of Indiana QPA9796. This contract provides for the ISDN prime services for the Prosecutor’s office for 36 months. Basically, what we’re doing is we’re reducing that, they used to have two, now they’re down to one. The contract provides for a monthly charge of only $490 during the life of the contract.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

President Korb: The final one we have is for the Health Department, the HIPPA business associate contract with Kim Goebel and Van Ausdall and Farrar. The HIPPA business associate contract is to be entered into between the county on behalf of the Health Department and Kim Goebel from Van Ausdall and Farrar relative to certain work to be done by Goebel and Van Ausdall and Farrar for the Health Department.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes.

President Korb: We move on now to department head reports. County Attorney, Mr. Ziemer?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I just have one item, which is, if I can find it here. Yes, it’s a clinical education agreement to be entered into between the county, on behalf of the Health Department, and the University of Evansville, under the terms of which nursing students at the University of Evansville will receive part of their training, sort of as interns, at the Health Department. The agreement meets our standard form for clinical education agreements and contains the necessary insurance provisions, and it’s satisfactory for execution.

Commissioner Nix: Move approval.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. Do we have any other department heads that wish to report at this time? Seeing none.

President Korb: We have a board appointment for the Airport Authority. The person that we have put up for nomination is Mr. Rick Kaskel. Rick owns his own plastics corporation here in Vanderburgh County, he’s a pilot, he has international business experience, and that’s why he was chosen. So, gentlemen, I need a motion please.

Commissioner Nix: So moved.

Commissioner Tornatta: Second.

President Korb: All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. At this time, I want to thank Steve Barber. He has faithfully served on that board, and he’s going off of the board, which is why Mr. Kaskel is being placed on. So, Steve, if you’re watching, thank you very much for all of your hard work on behalf of the county as well.

President Korb: New business? Do we have any new business? Seeing none.

President Korb: Old business? Hearing none.

President Korb: Public comment. Whoa! Oh, okay. Public comment? Yes.

Commissioner Nix: You better make sure this isn’t Drainage Board?

Ron O’Hara: Commission, I would like to thank you for the assistance that you’ve given me with the right-of-way problems at 18025–

Commissioner Nix: State your name for the record, please.

Ron O’Hara: Ronald O’Hara. I came to you last month with the problems at 18025 Old Henderson Road with access to a utility road back there.

President Korb: Right.

Ron O’Hara: You come up with the answer that the Army Corp of Engineers says that it is a road. The Sheriff removed the trailer, and had us clean up the debris, and sincerely appreciate the effort from you gentlemen to resolve this problem. I thank you.

President Korb: Great. Thanks, Mr. O’Hara, we appreciate you coming back to give us some props. That’s kind of unusual and very gracious on your part. Any other public comment?

Dave Reis: Hi, there. My name is Dave Reis. I live at 18131 Old Henderson Road. Yes, the Sheriff came out and removed some stuff from my lot and my partners lot here. It’s found out, which we have the paperwork, it is not a public road. It is, I have, oh, from the County Highway, I’ll show it to you where they’ve sent a letter here stating that, you know, that it’s not a county road.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay, who said it was a county road?

President Korb: Corp of Engineers.

Commissioner Nix: The Corp didn’t say it was, I don’t think the Corp said that. The conversation I had with, actually, an e-mail from Eric Williams the other day, Sheriff Williams, was that they felt access to this building back in the back was needed, as part of the reason why there was an obstruction that needed to be moved. The building back at the end that the Corp uses, or, I guess, the Corp still owns that.

Dave Reis: No, the Corp does not own it. It’s owned by individuals. In fact, your Board owns part of it.

Commissioner Nix: Okay.

Dave Reis: It’s all owned by individuals. You can see the property lines of all the individuals.

Commissioner Nix: Let me back up then. It was Corp property, I guess, is what–

Dave Reis: It used to be Corp property. They sold it in 1975.

Commissioner Nix: So, you’re saying the Corp owns none of this now at all?

Dave Reis: The Corp owns none of it.

President Korb: But, the Sheriff had the trailer and the debris removed from the road?

Dave Reis: Yes. Yes, they came on private property and removed it.

Commissioner Tornatta: David, can you kind of entertain me by telling what the deal is?

Dave Reis: What the deal is, is this, we, me and my partner, he had owned the property, and there’s been some stuff going on down there, things–

Commissioner Tornatta: Without getting into those things, stuff, will be fine.

Dave Reis: Okay. This is the property right here.

Commissioner Tornatta: David, can you point at the screen, please?

Dave Reis: Oh, that screen, okay. This is the property we’re talking about right here. This is where we had a trailer sitting on the back of our property, to try to hide it, we’re going to get rid of it, we’re going to get rid of it eventually. Sell it or whatever. That’s where they came in. The neighbor, Mr. O’Hara, lives right here, and he’s been using this county, well, he’s got actually eight foot on one side of his house, all he has to do is put a roadway in, if he wants to, to get back to a shed that he’s got back there. Actually, at the end of this driveway, this is all my property down here. I think that’s what, that used to be the Corp of Engineers shop area. But, I own that, you know, if each one of these are owned by individual people, the county owns three or four of these in the middle.

President Korb: That’s what I thought.

Dave Reis: Exactly. And, I do take care of it. I do cut the grass every week, sometimes twice this year. We don’t need a road back there. All you do is get people back there that throws trash out and all. I have probably a hundred pictures right now, whoever wants to look at them. We can show you where there’s trash all on the county ground.

Commissioner Nix: Have you notified the Garage or anyone about this?

Dave Reis: It’s tough, let me tell you, because somebody has to give the okay for them to go down there to actually get it off the county property. So, it would be your responsibility.

Commissioner Nix: But, no one’s made a call or anything?

Dave Reis: I’ve made many calls.

Commissioner Nix: To the County Garage?

Dave Reis: I’ve been down to the County Garage three times, I’ve been up in the offices up here, and everybody’s been gracious and kind and nice, but we just need to get somebody down there and get this stuff off the county property. It’s junk.

Commissioner Nix: I’ll follow up with Mr. Duckworth on that.

Dave Reis: We’d appreciate it very much. Thank you.

President Korb: So, you just have a bunch of trash down there, is that right?

Dave Reis: There is, yeah, some of the neighbors are putting trailers and just stuff that’s not licensed, and they’ve planted gardens, which, that, you know, I don’t know if you can plant a garden on county property. There’s no problem with that, but it’s just all the junk, the vehicles, tires, there’s a big burn pile, they’ve been burning plastics, carpets, you name it, I have all the pictures that I can bring up to you all’s office tomorrow, and it’s self explanatory.

Commissioner Tornatta: Well, obviously, we would want permission before anybody would entertain doing anything on county property.

Dave Reis: Right.

Commissioner Tornatta: To get the okay from this Board.

Dave Reis: Right.

Commissioner Tornatta: David, on the, I guess, southern most tip of Old Henderson Road, it kind of, in the diamond opposite the house, at the bottom of your screen?

Dave Reis: Yes, that’s also county.

Commissioner Tornatta: I understand. Is that how he gets to his house?

Dave Reis: No, if you look, whoever comes down, you will see a bare spot in the grass that he goes through the county property to get to his house.

Commissioner Tornatta: Okay.

President Korb: So, you’re here today because why?

Dave Reis: I’m here today to get the junk, I’m making an investment in the old powerhouse down there, where the old dam 48 used to be, and we just don’t want a lot of junk down there. We don’t need people burning all kinds of stuff, tires, and stuff in the trash pile, and polluting the water systems. You know, we’re all on wells down there.

Commissioner Nix: Do you have a record of when you called? Or do you remember who you talked to out there at the Garage?

Dave Reis: I, today, I talked to Mr., the main man.

Commissioner Nix: Okay, Mike Duckworth?

Dave Reis: Duckworth, yes.

Commissioner Nix: That was just today?

Dave Reis: Yes, that was–

Commissioner Nix: Now, you don’t expect that they would be down there today then doing the clean up then?

Dave Reis: No, before, no, we’ve, I’ve, in the last couple of weeks, I’ve been going to everybody’s office and trying to figure out who does what. The abandoned vehicles that are on private property, or the vehicles that are not licensed and not tagged will be taken care of. But, she cannot go onto, this is through the Sheriff’s Department, she needs permission from you all, so she can go on the county property and get rid of all this stuff.

President Korb: She being who?

Dave Reis: One of the ladies that I talked to.

President Korb: Okay, here’s what we’ll do, because we received an e-mail about this earlier this week from Sheriff Williams. It’s my understanding, and, gentlemen, if I’m incorrect, please let me know, that that is still some unfinished business going on down there on the Sheriff’s side. We are seeking resolution on that.

Dave Reis: Okay, thank you.

President Korb: So, yeah, so, I mean, that’s kind of where we are at this point. That’s why when Mr. O’Hara came up, I was a little surprised, because that’s not what the tone of the e-mail was that I received anyway from Sheriff Williams. The other question I have is, are you in a financial position to potentially purchase those pieces of property from the county?

Dave Reis: I would purchase them all, but that is part of the–

Commissioner Tornatta: You cannot. You cannot.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: The county is not allowed to sell them.

President Korb: Because?

Commissioner Tornatta: Army Corp of Engineers.

President Korb: Okay.

Dave Reis: That is part of the buyout, and you would lose your grant money, or something like that.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right.

Dave Reis: So, yes, we understand that. All I want to do is keep it cut, maintained and clean. Just so you understand, that road is closed, where we could block it off and they won’t dump trash back there anymore.

President Korb: Besides you and Mr. O’Hara and us, the county, are we the only three property owners?

Dave Reis: That is all.

President Korb: Okay, so, what we’ll wind up doing is, I want to get a final judgement from Sheriff Williams on this, because Sheriff Williams is just one of the fairest guys in the whole wide world out there. And, he’ll come back and give us his unequivocal opinion of what needs to be done and how we’re going to get to that point.

Commissioner Tornatta: He said closing, you’re going to close that entire back road?

Dave Reis: Well, it’s not a road. That’s the information that I gave you all today from–

Commissioner Tornatta: I understand, but I’m just saying, but it’s a way to get a car back there besides driving on–

Dave Reis: Yeah, the problem is, if it is a road, what is the right-of-way of the road? There’s nothing saying that there’s a road. In three deeds that I own there is, on Old Henderson Road there is a 30 foot right-of-way. There is nothing that describes a road back there. There’s no deeds, there’s no right-of-ways, there’s no anything in our, in our deeds. That’s why we’ve been talking to the county, and the county, which I showed you the e-mail, or today, you know, they don’t want anything to do with it. It’s not a road to them. If they want to make it a road, that’s fine, if they want the liability. If they want to make the updates on it, we would greatly appreciate it.

Commissioner Tornatta: That’s not, but, Ted, is there an agreement that can be made between these two individuals and maybe the county that the one individual can, Mr. O’Hara, can use the one side and they can use the other side, and it has to be unobstructed, and never the two shall meet?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Certainly that can be done. It’s just that all property owners involved would have to agree to that particular use.

Commissioner Tornatta: Can, if you just had the top portion by the house, and were able to use that side, are you covered?

Dave Reis: Yes.

Commissioner Tornatta: To get to your property?

Dave Reis: Yes, but I also own property at the other end too, so. I own at both ends, the top side and the bottom side.

Commissioner Nix: You said you were going to block this.

Dave Reis: Yes.

Commissioner Nix: What are you going to block it with?

Dave Reis: I had a trailer there on our property. Actually, it was his trailer.

Commissioner Nix: Had, but–

Dave Reis: The Sheriff hauled it off.

Commissioner Nix: Okay.

Commissioner Tornatta: Is there an agreement that could be reached with Mr. O’Hara to–

Dave Reis: I believe there is. I think it would be, before we go on with this conversation, it would be probably pretty important that you either, Troy, if you want to come down sometime, or we show you pictures, because you will know what I’m talking about. There is a problem down there. A large problem for the county.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I’m not seeing why it’s a large problem for the county. That’s the one–

Dave Reis: Just all the stuff that has ended up on it.

President Korb: You mean junk?

Dave Reis: Junk.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: But, can’t the county access it’s property from Old Henderson Road?

Dave Reis: Everybody can access their property from Old Henderson Road.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: So, if there’s something on a piece of county property, we can get it removed without–

Dave Reis: Yes.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: It’s our land. We can drive off Old Henderson Road to our property.

Dave Reis: We just need somebody to say okay so the county can go down there and start removing the stuff.

Commissioner Tornatta: Right, but it also runs between their properties, and on their properties. To get to our properties you have to go on their properties.

Dave Reis: No. No, the–

Commissioner Tornatta: Hold on, if you look at those green lines, they go all the way back.

Dave Reis: Okay, you see this–

Commissioner Tornatta: So to–

Dave Reis: –this is property of you, property of you, property of you. Any of this property can be accessed by Old Henderson Road. No problem.

Commissioner Nix: Go right off the road.

Dave Reis: Go right off the road.

President Korb: There’s no ditch there?

Dave Reis: There’s no ditch.

President Korb: Okay.

Dave Reis: No. It’s just smooth, I keep it cut, like I said. So, no, there would be, for none of the property owners, including the county, there is no problem.

Commissioner Tornatta: I guess, my question is then, Ted, if because of circumstances, an individual lives in a shotgun situation where they can’t get around their house without encroaching on another piece of property, is there any type of remedy there?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Not an automatic remedy. I mean, they’re not entitled to right-of-way as a matter of law. They certainly can agree with the abutting landowners, and everybody agrees as to how this roadway can be used and who’s going to maintain it. They could agree to that.

Commissioner Tornatta: Then, at the same time, we would probably have to agree that we could go through those properties in order to get to our properties.

Commissioner Nix: If we wanted to use that back, existing roadway, or whatever it is.

Dave Reis: You can get to any one of your properties by Old Henderson Road, just the way we do.

Commissioner Nix: Okay.

Dave Reis: And that includes Mr. O’Hara’s, if he wants to put a driveway in.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I think Mr. O’Hara said last time he was here that he can’t get to the back of his property without accessing that roadway.

Dave Reis: Um.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Or non-roadway.

Commissioner Tornatta: And stay on his property, Dave, I think that was the key.

Dave Reis: This is my partner, Greg’s, old house. There is eight foot, eight to nine foot, we don’t know the exact, would be on the south side of this. This is the O’Hara house. They have plenty of room. They say they don’t have room, but there is plenty of room there to make a driveway, if you want to look at this.

Commissioner Nix: Eight foot’s not wide enough for a driveway.

President Korb: Do what?

Commissioner Nix: I said, eight foot’s not wide enough for a driveway.

Dave Reis: My driveway’s six foot. I think that roadway back there is six or seven. It might be, I don’t think it’s eight foot. For a driveway, that’s pretty wide.

President Korb: Mr. Reis, do you have a phone number you can leave with us?

Dave Reis: Yes, I do.

President Korb: That I’ll call, give it to Marissa.

Dave Reis: Okay.

President Korb: I’ll be out, and we’ll take a look at that with the Sheriff.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: You ought to have the Sheriff with you, I think.

President Korb: Absolutely.

Dave Reis: We appreciate that. If you come down on the weekend, we’ll, just let me know and we’ll cook something out.

Madelyn Grayson: Mr. Reis, I’ll need to make a copy of the front page of that document. I don’t think, you can’t leave that document for the record, can you? That’s an original, isn’t it?

President Korb: It is an original.

Madelyn Grayson: I’ll just make a copy.

President Korb: Mr. Reis, can you do a favor? Don’t be blocking nothing until we get this settled? Can you do that for me?

Dave Reis: That’s no problem.

President Korb: Great.

Dave Reis: As long as we can go back on our properties.

Unidentified: Yeah, (inaudible) our properties (inaudible). The police doesn’t (inaudible)--

Commissioner Tornatta: Can you come up and give your name?

President Korb: Okay.

Greg Cook: Hi, my name is Greg Cook. I’m property owner with Dave Reis, 18011. Last night I went down there, and the cops come and removed me, because Mrs. O’Hara said that she owned the property. I have a document here that I got from the Assessor’s office saying that I own it too. It belongs to me.

President Korb: Madelyn, we’ve got, Marissa, I mean, Kristin, we have one more document. Okay. So, it was the Sheriff’s Department that was there?

Greg Cook: Yeah, they told me I had to leave.

President Korb: Okay. Because, you did more than just drive through?

Greg Cook: No, I was sitting there.

President Korb: And, you just did that because?

Greg Cook: Well, I called them because they came down and removed our trailer from private property.

President Korb: Right.

Greg Cook: They do not own that. We own that.

President Korb: The trailer?

Greg Cook: The property that it was on, 18011.

President Korb: But, here’s where I’m confused, is this the O’Hara’s trailer?

Greg Cook: No.

Dave Reis: No, it’s not their trailer, and it’s not their property. They claim it is.

President Korb: Okay.

Dave Reis: This is what has gotten us almost thrown in jail.

President Korb: Okay, well, here’s what we need to do, if we can, before you all get thrown in jail, because that’s not a good thing, especially on the weekend. Number one, don’t obstruct the road. Sheriff Williams is out of town, I will give him a call tonight or tomorrow when he gets back. Then, are you able to access your property by going off of Old Henderson Road?

Dave Reis: Yes, we do it all the time.

President Korb: Okay. So, you can do that. Here’s what we’re trying to stop, if we can, is a continuance of bad blood. Alright?

Dave Reis: Right.

President Korb: But, what we need to do is get to the bottom of this for your benefit, and for the O’Hara’s benefit, and very comfortable doing that.

Dave Reis: That’s all we’re here for.

President Korb: In terms of having everything hauled off, I really believe that potentially, and, gentlemen, you could help me with this, get a hold of the Sheriff and he can send out some of his guarded inmates, and that happens a lot with cleaning up lots and that type of thing.

Dave Reis: Right.

President Korb: So, we can meet you halfway on that as well. So, we’ll figure out a solution to this, but, just do me a favor, don’t fan the flames.

Greg Cook: Can I say one more thing?

President Korb: Yes.

Greg Cook: When FEMA came down there and bought that property that you guys own now, they were supposed to remove that road.

President Korb: Okay.

Greg Cook: All the concrete, all the blacktop was supposed to be removed.

President Korb: And you have that in writing?

Greg Cook: No, that’s what we were told when we, I lived in that house.

President Korb: Okay, and here’s my only suggestion from this point forward, “May I see that in writing please.”

Greg Cook: Okay.

President Korb: Because, that way if you’ve got it in writing, then everybody gets nailed to the wall properly. Without it, it’s a wink and a nod, and that dog ain’t hunting.

Greg Cook: We’ll chase that nut down.

President Korb: Exactly.

Dave Reis: As long as we’re not thrown off our property again.

President Korb: Commissioner?

Commissioner Nix: I guess, the other thing I would ask of you, we’ll work on this clean up, but if you see any of that in the future, don’t hesitate to call the Garage and call the police, I mean, if you see dumping, because I would like to maybe see if we can get some signs posted down there or something, to that effect.

President Korb: Marissa, would you make a note of that for us, please?

Commissioner Nix: So, that this doesn’t continue to be a problem. I mean, if you see it happening, somebody needs to know about it. I know you said you’ve been calling, but I can’t help but believe that–

Dave Reis: I can’t get, you can’t get any traction sometimes. Maybe I was calling the wrong people.

Commissioner Nix: You call the Highway Garage and speak to them out there, and the second call is to call the Commission office. This is the first we’ve heard of this situation.

Dave Reis: Okay, well, we thought the Sheriff’s Department could handle it.

Commissioner Nix: Yeah, it wouldn’t necessarily–

Commissioner Tornatta: Is it posted county?

Commissioner Nix: I’ve driven it quite a bit, and it’s not, that I know of.

President Korb: Posted?

Commissioner Tornatta: Posted.

Commissioner Nix: I don’t believe it is.

President Korb: So, what I would suggest, your first call, if you see illegal dumping going on, 911.

Dave Reis: Okay. Well, there’s stuff down there that whenever you all come down, it’s down there right now, if you want to look at it. I will take some more pictures of it tonight, and I will get–

President Korb: No, just don’t–

Dave Reis: Well, I’ll get the pictures that I have.

President Korb: I’ll just walk down.

Commissioner Nix: But, we need to stay on top of it is what I’m saying. If you see it happening, if you don’t address it and just let it sit, then all of a sudden it invites other people to do it, and they think, well, that’s fine, somebody else did it so I can do it.

President Korb: Right.

Commissioner Nix: Then it just keeps going.

Dave Reis: That’s exactly. Most of it is being done by–

Commissioner Nix: If you could get a license number, or something like that.

Dave Reis: By–

President Korb: I understand.

Dave Reis: Okay.

President Korb: But, here’s the deal.

Dave Reis: Okay.

President Korb: Don’t fan the flames.

Dave Reis: No. As long as we can go on our property without being arrested, that’s all we care about.

President Korb: I don’t know why you can’t if you use Old Henderson Road to do that temporarily.

Dave Reis: Okay.

President Korb: Am I stating something incorrectly there.

Commissioner Tornatta: No, he went to his property and it was just, he said, she said, not knowing who owned the property, and they think they own the property, so, they stayed on the property.

President Korb: Right.

Commissioner Tornatta: Probably didn’t sit too well with the Sheriff’s Department.

Dave Reis: The Assessor’s office had mixed up the properties. So, the one property showed that Gloria O’Hara owned it. That was our property. The other property showed that some bank owned it. So, they started waiving, well, look we own this property.

President Korb: What we’ll do is, because we’ve got a great relationship with Mr. Weaver in the Assessor’s office, we will get to the bottom of this, even if we have to stake it out. I don’t mean watch it, but, I mean from an engineering type stake out.

Dave Reis: We would greatly appreciate it. Like I said, when I get done with them there, I think it’s something that you all will be proud of, and all the bicyclists that run down there on nice weekends, they all stop and look at our building. We just don’t need the trash down there, and we don’t need the pollution.

President Korb: Well, like I said, if it’s not on their specific property. Obviously, we’re not dumping, I don’t know if the O’Hara’s are dumping, I’m sure you’re not dumping, if it’s someone who’s not supposed to be there, again, your first call is 911.

Dave Reis: Okay, thank you.

President Korb: You’re second call is the County Garage.

Dave Reis: Thank you very much.

President Korb: Great, and I’ll be in touch.

Dave Reis: Appreciate it.

President Korb: Great, thanks, Dave, appreciate you coming.

Dave Reis: Okay.

President Korb: Any other public comments? Yes, sir. Now, is this kind of in disagreement with what he just said?

Ron O’Hara: No, it’s some additional information about what he just said.

President Korb: Okay, here’s my thought. I’m going to tell you no, because what I want to get to, I want to have, I want to have the Assessor tell me who owns what. Until we can unwrap that accident, really, everything else is academic.

Ron O’Hara: Okay. The trash pile that he’s talking about is when I cleaned up from the flood, which, after it flooded, it washed everything up there. Baby items, tires, debris, I cleaned up from in front of his house on Old Henderson Road down to OBC.

President Korb: Okay.

Ron O’Hara: The pit that he’s talking about and the trash that he’s talking about, is the pit where I was burning the trash from the flood. Part of what he says is the county property, runs through the middle of the garage and through the middle of my house. I’ve been to all the agencies to get things squared around. I’ve talked with Tim Hambridge who’s a property attorney who was supposed to get the property registered properly–

President Korb: Uh-huh.

Ron O’Hara: –because it is improperly registered. It’s also, part of the property line goes through the center of the house.

President Korb: Well, what we’re going to do is we are going to unravel this. We’ll do it legally through the Assessor’s office, because, obviously, there’s an issue between you as neighbors. We don’t like to do the whole Solomon splitting the baby thing. So, we’re going to, again, for us to move forward, I think, that we are going to have to have some solid information so we know exactly what we’re walking towards.

Ron O’Hara: Uh-huh.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I will say that your mention of having seen a private counsel on this is a very important step on your part. While the county wants to do what it can with regard to alleged county roadways and certainly debris that’s, you know, improperly put on properties, and we’ve got ordinances that cover that, the county really isn’t in the business of settling property line disputes between neighbors. That’s generally done by each one getting a lawyer and they work the thing out. So, it’s fine to take a look at this, but, finally, it sounds to me like it’s a property line dispute, and that’s really something to be handled by private counsel. But, you’re saying the county will do everything it can do so far as county property is concerned.

President Korb: Correct, and I’m more interested in the trash that’s on the property. Mr. Reis, have you obtained the counsel of an attorney?

Dave Reis: Yes, I do have an attorney if needs be. I have talked to him.

President Korb: Okay, because I’m more interested in understanding where the boundaries are in the property.

Dave Reis: His property?

President Korb: Both.

Dave Reis: Your property is in between mine and his.

President Korb: Okay.

Dave Reis: So, you would have to deal with Mr. O’Hara.

President Korb: Okay, well, we’ll figure that out when I come out, okay?

Dave Reis: Thank you very much.

President Korb: Yep, you’re welcome. Thank you, Mr. O’Hara.

Ron O’Hara: Alright.

President Korb: Any other public comment? Seeing none.

President Korb: We have consent items. We have a late addition to the consent items, an additional travel request for the County Commissioners. I need a motion to approve.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye.

All Commissioners: Aye.

President Korb: Opposed same sign. The motion passes. We are at the point where we’re ready for a motion for adjournment.

Commissioner Tornatta: So moved.

Commissioner Nix: Second.

President Korb: This meeting is now adjourned.

(The meeting was adjourned at 5:52 p.m.)

CONSENT ITEMS:

Commissioners:

Approval of the June 17, 2008 Commission Meeting Minutes.

SW Indiana Mental Health Foundation: Hillcrest Home 2007 Financial Report.

Department Head Meeting Notes: June 17, 2008.

Employment Changes:

County Assessor (8)                 County Clerk (3)                       Sheriff Office (1)

VCCC (1)                                  Prosecutor (1)                           Circuit Court (1)

Auditor (2)                                 Burdette Park (4)                      Health Dept. (2)

Travel Requests:

Center Assessor (2)                 Commissioners (3)                   Health Dept. (2)

Auditor (1)                                 County Assessor (1)

Weights & Measures: Monthly Report: May 2008.

Surplus Requests:

Building Authority: portable bars & telephone booths from the Centre.

Perry Assessor: various computer items.

Auditor: chairs.

Treasurer: Year-to-Date Report: May 2008.

County Clerk: Monthly Report: May 2008.

Department Head Reports:

Burdette Park                           County Engineer                       County Highway

Ozone Officer

County Engineer: Pay Request No. 55: Burkhardt-Green River TIF Projects.

Those in Attendance:

Jeff Korb                                   Bill Nix                                      Troy Tornatta

Bill Fluty                                    Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.          Marissa Nichoalds

Madelyn Grayson                     Patty Avery                               Ann Topper

Kay Johnson                             Debbie Spalding                       Pat Seib

Roger Lehman                          Ron O’Hara                              Dave Reis

Greg Cook                                Others Unidentified                   Members of Media

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS

Jeff Korb, President

Bill Nix, Vice President

Troy Tornatta, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)