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Board of Commissioners January 31, 2000
President Jerrel: I'd like to call
the Commissioners' meeting to order. The first item on the agenda is the
introductions and at this time I would like to introduce the gentleman
on your far right, Tony Greubel is the Superintendent of County Buildings;
next to him Joe Harrison, Jr., our County Attorney; Commissioner Pat Tuley;
far left, Charlene Timmons, the Recording Secretary; Suzanne Crouch, County
Auditor; Richard Mourdock, County Commissioner; my name is Bettye Lou Jerrel.
Would you join me in the Pledge of Allegiance?
President Jerrel: The first action item on our agenda is the approval of the minutes of the previous meeting. Commissioner Mourdock: And I'll move approval of the minutes of January 24th. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered.
President Jerrel: The next item is the certification of our Executive Session. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the summary minutes from tonight's Executive Session which began at 4:50 and ended at 5:30 and concerned pending litigation against the county and certain county real estate property issues and personnel issues. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered.
President Jerrel: The next item, Jerry Bryan, Purchasing Department. Jerry Bryan: Good evening Commissioners. I'm Jerry Bryan, City/County Purchasing Director. I have before you in your agenda permission to bid and advertise APA015-2000 for traffic signs. This is a straight bid that needs to be rebid every year. We're asking for advertising dates of February 9th and February 16th with opening on March 6th. The Board of Public Works this afternoon at 3:30 approved their portion and I am coming before you asking for your approval also. President Jerrel: Is there a motion? Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move permission to bid and advertise APA015-2000 as requested. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. Jerry Bryan: Thank you. President Jerrel: Thank you.
President Jerrel: Next we have the GIS Committee and I know there are a number of people here. If you just give us your names. Roger Lehman: Roger Lehman, Building Commissioner and Chairman of the GIS Technical Subcommittee. Cheryl Musgrave: And Cheryl Musgrave, County Assessor. Roger Lehman: We are here this evening to request the Commissioners approve a contract with Western Air Maps. We have been in negotiation with them for at least ten years...no, it just seems like it...for several weeks and we believe we have the contract where it is in the best interest of the city and the county. As you know, this will be the part of the contract or part of the GIS services that will be funded by the city upon completion. The attorney has been personally and at length involved in this one and we believe it is ready to go. President Jerrel: I'm not going to ask any questions about this paragraph. Roger Lehman: Bless you. President Jerrel: This is a very technical contract to negotiate and I appreciate the work you've done. Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Commissioner Mourdock: None for me. Commissioner Tuley: It looks like we need a new copier. Joe Harrison, Jr.: The draft that you all have has been modified a little bit, but the original...I've got two copies of the original. We had some late minute changes and even as of Friday and Thursday we had some more changes, but this is the final product and we wish we could have gotten it to you sooner, but we didn't want to rush it. Commissioner Mourdock: What was the term for performance here, nine months, is that right? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yeah, essentially it is nine months. Hopefully a little sooner. They're ready to get going, I think, within two weeks. That's our hope. Commissioner Mourdock: Actually begin the photography within two weeks? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Well, to begin-- Commissioner Mourdock: Targeting? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yes. Roger Lehman: Establishing the control points, the permanent control points. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the agreement between Western Air Maps and Vanderburgh County for orthophotography for the GIS system. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. Roger Lehman: Thank you very much.
President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is SCT. Bill Cottun: Good afternoon or good evening, Commissioners. How are you today? Response: Fine. Bill Cottun: We have two contracts before you today. The first is with PDS, Personnel Data Systems. This is a DEC/VAX application that we are currently using in the Controller's Office and the Auditor's Office that is a payroll manager, personnel manager, information manager and security manager for the DEC/VAX version. This fee is through the end of this year or this agreement is through the end of this year. The total fee is $13,968.60 of which the county is paying $8,984.25. This application...I would like to point out there have been discussions about the possibility of replacing this application next year or very possibly 2002. It is a mainframe application and both the Controller's Office and the Auditor's Office have expressed some concern about this particular application and wanting to move into the client server field with this. The price did go up ten percent this year which is a higher increase than we would of liked. It has been reviewed with the City Attorney...excuse me, the County Attorney and the city attorneys are currently looking at these two contracts with increased scrutiny as they are doing with all contracts going through the city side. We will take this to the Board of Public Works next Monday. President Jerrel: Are there any questions? Commissioner Tuley: What did you say the total cost was? Bill Cottun: On this particular contract, sir, it's $17,968. Commissioner Tuley: I'm sorry, I thought I heard you say $13,000. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah. Bill Cottun: I apologize, sir. Commissioner Tuley: Oh, okay. Commissioner Mourdock: Unless we both misheard you I think-- Bill Cottun: I apologize. I need another set of glasses. President Jerrel: Bill? Bill Cottun: Yes, ma'am. President Jerrel: I have a question. If we are going to move to new software, and I think it is time that we move to new software because just for the benefit of employees there are no fields that you can list on the county's, I'm not sure about the city's payroll checks, but I would think they would be much the same. We need to be able to list number of sick days, vacation days, and all of that needs to be included so the sooner you can get that rolling with the affected departments, the Controller and the Auditor, I think we need to move on that. Bill Cottun: We'll certainly be looking at that for the budgets for next year. They're pushing us, too. I'd be glad to. President Jerrel: Okay, is there a motion? Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the contract, the maintenance agreement, between PDS and Vanderburgh County. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. Bill Cottun: The next item before you is for the maintenance fees for the network Compaq computer equipment that we have on our city/county network. Rarely am I able to come to you with a significant price reduction in the cost of annual fee, but fortunately this year I am able to. In moving to client server we've been able to take some of our old mainframe off the network and that is resulting in a savings this year of almost $30,000 or I should say a cost reduction of almost $30,000 in our digital maintenance contract. This year the total amount of the contract is $51,227.04 of which the county will pay $29,537.51. I would like to point out that while we do have a substantial decrease in it this year in the 2001 and 2002 budget there will be an increase to the maintenance contract but that is because many of the new machines that we have purchased last year and this year will be going off the factory warranty and will be moving over to maintenance costs so we will have an increase next year. President Jerrel: Are there any questions? Commissioner Mourdock: Again, you have already taken this one to the city side? Bill Cottun: Yes, sir. The city is under review at this time with the city attorneys. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the contract for the contract maintenance for the client service with Compaq as requested. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. Bill Cottun: Thank you very much. President Jerrel: Thank you.
President Jerrel: This is the final reading also now on behalf of Morley and Associates, the Evansville Hotel Ventures. Are there any questions? Is there anyone here to represent? Danny Leek: I'm Danny Leek with Morley and Associates. Basically this is an easement vacation for Baymont Inn. I didn't know if anybody had any questions from last week's meeting. President Jerrel: Is there anyone here that wishes to speak regarding this? Commissioner Mourdock: On final reading I'll move approval of an ordinance to allow the vacation of a portion of a ten foot public utility easement lying along the common line of lots 15 and 16 of Eagle Plaza Subdivision. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: And I'll call for a roll call vote since it's a final. Commissioner Tuley? Commissioner Tuley: Yes. President Jerrel: Commissioner Mourdock? Commissioner Mourdock: Yes. President Jerrel: And I vote yes. Thank you. Danny Leek: Thank you.
President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is our Planning Council concerning the Gatekeeper program. Tim Suenram: Good evening, I'm Tim Suenram. I'm the Chair of the Welfare to Work Local Planning Council and was not at the last meeting so I have brought along Cyndi Spear-Duncan to answer questions since I wasn't able to be at that meeting. I believe you have received a number of items that were included in your packet and we've come on behalf the Local Planning Council to make some recommendations to the County Commission. The first of which is to add to the Council three members. Donna Martin of Career Choices, she has been involved in discussions for the last year or so. Cheryl Kunkel who we contracted with last year to put together the demonstration project that part of which was funded which we'll talk about in just a few moments and then also Gary Heck with Phil Lieberman & Associates who is also working as the Gatekeeper. The Planning Council would like to recommend to the County Commission that these three persons be added to the Council. Commissioner Mourdock: I have one question in that regard because I know Gary resigned from the Welfare Planning Council basically when Heck...or when Lieberman was under consideration and I guess I would be asking the County Attorney this. It would seem to me there would be a potential conflict there if we have an employee of the Gatekeeper on that Council. Joe, do you have any comments? Joe Harrison, Jr.: I think it would be prudent to not have that arrangement, but certainly because of funding and the potential for types of situation that could increase one's salary, but I think it would probably be better if that was not the case. President Jerrel: Joe, couldn't they come to the meeting? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Sure. Tim Suenram: And they have been. Joe Harrison, Jr.: Sure. Tim Suenram: Actually, all three of these have. Joe Harrison, Jr.: But just not be a voting member. Cyndi Spear-Duncan: Could I address that? We talked about that and the group felt pretty much that Gary has been involved in this since the very beginning. He is always there. He is always up to speed on everything. We have some holes we've had a time filling and we thought that if it came to the issues that concerned specifically the Gatekeeper, because we do deal with other things other than just Gatekeeper, then he could abstain from getting involved. Could he not do that, excuse himself? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Well, certainly you could, but I just think it looks better if you didn't have that potential out there in case there are questions. I think he could certainly appear at any meeting and encourage votes one way or the other, but I agree the perception is just not the best, so I think it would be best if he didn't sit on the board. Commissioner Mourdock: And understand as we're saying this in the third person with Gary there in the background my point of view on this isn't so much as what is necessarily the best thing just for the county. I think it may be in your best interest and in Lieberman's best interest not to cover both bases. Gary Heck: I brought that up before they made the recommendation, but they did it anyway. Commissioner Mourdock: At any rate let me...go ahead, Pat. Commissioner Tuley: Well, no I am shaking my head in agreement. I believe when we first started talking about this and the potential for you to be working for the company that is bidding on this that was exactly the discussion. It's the perception and I agree with Richard. I just think we're better off to just keep the line very clean and clear. Cyndi Spear-Duncan: We can accept that. We just thought, like I said, he has been involved and he is very knowledgeable. He cares about it and, you know, again was willing to step aside when necessary, but you know it is hard to get people that are up to speed all the time. Tim Suenram: Besides that if you put him back on then I could turn the Chair back over to Gary! A little self interest there. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, well just to move this along here let me formally move that Donna Martin of Career Choices and Cheryl Kunkel at Work Able be appointed to serve on the Local Planning Council. Commissioner Tuley: I'll second. President Jerrel: Question. Commissioner Mourdock: Sure. President Jerrel: Do they have contracts that they enter into also with you? Cyndi Spear-Duncan: I'm sorry, I missed it? President Jerrel: The motion that Commissioner Mourdock made-- Tim Suenram: Not at this-- President Jerrel: --I wanted to ask the question does Donna Martin in Career Choices do anything with the Gatekeeper program? Tim Suenram: Not at this point, no. President Jerrel: And how about Cheryl Kunkel? Tim Suenram: No. President Jerrel: No, okay. Well, that's the only issue. If they do then Gary should not be treated any differently than anyone else. Okay, I'll so order that motion. Tim Suenram: There are a lot of us who in one way or the other are involved with almost all of these clients. President Jerrel: Sure. Tim Suenram: Our second recommendation was to change the allocation percentages and I believe you have in your packets some recommendations regarding that dated October 29th, a little table. This was...we had asked Gary to put this together for us basically based upon what our past...the past history has been. As you are aware we've come to you from time to time asking to move funds from one particular area to the other and essentially this would...if we continue in the pattern that we have in the past two years this would basically preclude us from having to do that unless there is a large change in the demand for different kinds of services, so essentially this recommendation is based on past performance. Commissioner Mourdock: And the way these have moved, child care has gone up. Employment and job training has gone down and transportation and safety net are unchanged. Is that correct? Tim Suenram: No, I think if I am understanding this correctly we've have roughly halved child care. It's gone from 45 percent to 23 percent, if you look in the fourth column there. Commissioner Mourdock: Ah, okay. And that's because the state was otherwise providing more funding in those areas? Tim Suenram: That's right. There are more funds available so we decided...right. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, so we have greatly increased the safety net side of it. President Jerrel: And on the safety net side do you interact with the Trustees in the community? Tim Suenram: We have...one of the Trustees is on our Council and I know that the Gatekeeper is in contact with them so that there is not duplication and that sort of thing. President Jerrel: Right, that was the question. Tim Suenram: So the Gatekeeper can meet those needs then the Gatekeeper does so. Excuse me, the Trustee does. President Jerrel: The Trustee. Commissioner Mourdock: And that was one of the things early on that why we made sure a Trustee was on there. I'll move acceptance of the recommended levels for distribution between child care, employment, transportation and safety net as recommended. Commissioner Tuley: Second. Commissioner Mourdock: And TANF, by the way. The demo project. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. Tim Suenram: Our third recommendation is essentially to broaden the base of eligibility from 150 percent of poverty to 200 percent which matches currently what is available for the Indiana Children's Medicaid Program. It basically just broadens participation. Commissioner Mourdock: And let me be sure I understand what that means because I'm not sure in reading that line several times. I understand that the Indiana Children's Medicaid Program is now saying the limit is no longer 150 percent of poverty it's 200 percent. You are suggesting with this that all aspects for qualification be it under the child care, be it under transportation, safety net, what have you move to 200 percent, is that right? Tim Suenram: Of current federal poverty levels, that's right. Commissioner Mourdock: I have to ask myself the question, Tim and Cyndi, as we look at this have we strayed from where we originally started when we put the Gatekeeper program together in that...and I understand there is a lot that has changed beyond what we've done, with what the state has done and certainly what the feds have done, but our initial driving force on this was to help people who were making the transition off of the program, off the two year and out program. I guess I am challenged to think are we making this too broad in going from 150 to 200 percent? I'm troubled by that. Tim Suenram: I'm not sure I can answer your question to your satisfaction, but it seems to me the logic behind it is that as you are aware none of the Gatekeeper clients are TANF eligible. Essentially what we're trying to do is to keep the people that are in that gap from going the other direction. Commissioner Mourdock: Further define the gap for me though. Tim Suenram: Well, between the 150 and the 200 percent. Commissioner Mourdock: Oh, I thought you meant beyond TANF. In other words, those who are not TANF eligible are eligible for what else? Tim Suenram: I'm sorry? Commissioner Mourdock: You said our program only applies to those who are not TANF eligible, correct? Tim Suenram: That's right. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. What else might they be eligible for if not TANF and if not our program? Are there other things out there? Gary is shaking his head no. Gary Heck: There really isn't any. I mean-- Commissioner Mourdock: You need to come to the mike, Gary. Gary Heck: Gary Heck. The TANF program is what took the place of AFDC which was Aid to Families with Dependent Children which is a public assistance and welfare program. The Commissioners and the County Council made it very clear that the Initiative Based Assistance Gatekeeper program wasn't to be a replacement or an extension of welfare or to last for any great length of time. It was a short-term assistance to assist individuals who have demonstrated initiative over a circumstantial disruption. The State of Indiana recently and other states across the country have sort of redefined the whole population base as what is needy and what is not needy and where some assistance levels can be shared with some family copays and that's what this Package C of the Hoosier Healthwise Program which comes in place above 150 to 200 percent of poverty. There is a family copay that is in existence on that particular program and there is a schedule that is built up that would allow that to take the place on child care which is the only service under Gatekeeper that we have a copay for right now. So the recommendation would be basically to mirror what the State of Indiana has determined to be individuals in need of assistance through circumstantial disruptions at least in the area of health care saying that all working families have a problem with paying for health care when you look at the cost and anyone who meets 200 percent of the federal poverty level would be eligible for that assistance in the state of Indiana because of that need for that service and how intense it is. I think the recommendation from the task force recognizes that the ability to have a car and go to work and things like that, making sure it is in good repair, could also meet those needs. Commissioner Mourdock: Let me state my worry, okay, and then maybe you can address what my worry is. Jump in here anywhere, but when I look at these income limits it strikes me there are people in this building working 40 hours a week who likely are going to now be eligible for this program. Gary Heck: If they have the same family size at that income level. Commissioner Mourdock: Right. Commissioner Tuley: Take it a little closer to home, Tony was telling me that under the income guidelines right now his wife is not working, and I don't know if it is by choice or what, we didn't get into that, he is eligible under these proposed guidelines. I share where you are headed with this. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, I just...I understand what the state has done and what the feds have done and I know in many ways we've tried to model and even improve on what they've done and I think you've done that to your credit, but I am wondering if this time if we're not chasing them too far down the alley. Tim Suenram: Well, I think the rationale is that if you are at 180 percent of poverty and you run into some kind of circumstantial difficulties like this the temptation is to say I would be better off on welfare. It seems to me that IBAP is that stop gap that we have that enables someone not to make that choice, that conscious choice. Commissioner Mourdock: But doesn't that argument go against the logic that we heard so often in the early Welfare to Work Planning Council days when there were those on that national scene saying you have these "welfare queens" out there who are just enjoying welfare and they're staying on it and the overwhelming sense of the people on the Council was that was an extremely rare case. People don't want to be on welfare. Tim Suenram: Right. Commissioner Mourdock: And now you're making the other argument saying, well, if we don't take this to 200 people are going to want to be on welfare. I don't know that we've got a consistent argument there. Tim Suenram: I'm not sure I'm saying that, but it seems to me that is the rationale. President Jerrel: I'm curious about something and I apologize that I am not better informed, but I have not read anything in the Indianapolis Star and that's really the only out of county paper that I read regularly. What are they doing in other urban areas like ours with welfare to work? Do you ever hear or talk to them? Gary Heck: Are you talking about like what some of the other demonstration programs or other projects or other things? President Jerrel: Yes. Gary Heck: Transportation is a major concern. I can tell you what they are doing in Tell City and in Perry and Spencer counties. They actually have purchased ten cars that will be used on a loaner basis for families to use because public transportation isn't an option for them and the number of families in need that meets the income guidelines that they are looking at allow them to set up a base where ten vehicles could start that program for them. Every other place that I am aware of is trying to fight that same issue with transportation. The ones that have been successful are the ones that can match up a targeted population base that lives in close geographic proximity to each other that all want to go to about the same general area somewhere else in the county so that a private van commuting system can be put in place. In Indiana any time you have a...pay a fee for a service you have to meet the Department of Transportation's licensing requirements for the drivers and the minimum insurance liability and depending upon the size of vehicle it is anywhere from one and a half million to five million dollars and a chauffeurs driver's license to a commercial driver's license depending upon the size of the vehicle regardless of the amount of money that you charge. If there is a fee involved at all which takes it out of the church bus category. That's the only other group that I am familiar with that is using some funds other...and I haven't seen all the demonstration programs that Vanderburgh County was one of 30 something counties that applied, but those seem to be the types of things. President Jerrel: Other than...I guess what I am trying to get to find out and then maybe I better just go make the inquiry on my own, but I am trying to find out...we did this and we're committing a good bit of money to it every year. Who else is doing that? Gary Heck: I don't know that...if I had to answer in Indiana I would say there is probably no other group who has done the same thing and I'd say that both as a compliment for the foresight of this group and also perhaps they are just not as creative in the use of resources. If we didn't have a riverboat here we probably wouldn't be...we would be in the same position that they are in. I think it was just we were fortunate that there was an opportunity and vision on this leadership group who saw a need and was able to make that match. I would hope that if other groups had the same types of vision, leadership and resources they would also make that match, but I just don't think that is the case. Tim Suenram: If I could add to that, too. We are now entering the third year of this program and actually I think Vanderburgh County really pioneered when the task force first started meeting and we came with a recommendation and Mr. Hmurovich was here from the Division of Family and Children. He came and basically said if you'll give us a proposal we'll take care of it, that sort of thing. I believe that the impetus that came out of the Local Planning Council from Vanderburgh County is probably what is behind the demonstration projects in the first place. I mean, the offering of that opportunity. That was a long process and we just now just recently heard the part of our application would be funded, but I believe in those other 31 applicants that we'll start to see also innovated type of approaches to this, but I think even though it seems like a long time ago, you know how slowly the wheels of government turn. Commissioner Mourdock: We've heard rumors. Tim Suenram: I think we still have, you know, a time before we begin to see some of the fruits of that. I do know that the communication from Indy regarding the demonstration project and the funding of the investigators for delinquent parents, this is the only program in the state that got funded to do that sort of thing. We were the only applicant that actually came up with that angle. I think we'll probably see some...there are 31 other projects that have been funded. Commissioner Mourdock: Let me kind of build on something that Gary said and come back to this, but I agree, the fact that we may be the only one in the state that is doing it this way was a unique...there was a unique opportunity there from the riverboat funding for sure, but, again, the fact that this one may be unique doesn't bother me at all. As I have said before, if you're not the lead dog the view never changes and I feel like we are out in front and I think from what John Hmurovich has said to me as well I think other things the state is doing is based on what we did down here so I feel good about that. But coming back to this issue, again, I just don't feel comfortable saying we need to take that level from 150 to 200 because I think we open the program up to more than what maybe we really intended it to be originally. You know, what we said initially, and again, Gary, you said it exactly right, we wanted to be able to help those people who had initiative, who were out there working and trying to better themselves and were just coming off the program. We did change it and tweak it and that's okay, but we want to help the poorest of the poor with the most initiative and I'm not sure when you take it this high that you're not crossing the line from the poorest of the poor to a greater number that may not necessarily be as deserving, if that is the right word. Gary Heck: Fair enough. Commissioner Tuley: I hate to keep saying me too, but I have to agree with that. I really question that jump from 150 to 200. This mike is backwards. When it says on it's off. But I have to agree with Richard. I really question where we're going when we jump it like this. President Jerrel: Would this be something that we would be more comfortable with to defer for the time being and let us review some of this information and we may choose to leave it as it is, but this is the first time that we've seen it. Commissioner Mourdock: I would ask that we defer item three. Items four and five as we have acted on the other two though, I would certainly feel comfortable with continuing down the road with those if you would like. Commissioner Tuley: If that's a motion, I'll second. President Jerrel: So ordered. Commissioner Mourdock: Well, I say five. Actually five I guess would encompass three in a sense so we might want to strike three. Commissioner Tuley: Okay. Commissioner Mourdock: Or strike five. I move that we strike five from the prior motion. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. But we would extend the employment and training as you have in four from six to 12 months. President Jerrel: And then we'll get back with you and have you back. Give us a chance to look at it because it was all new information. Cyndi Spear-Duncan: Sure. Thanks. Commissioner Tuley: Wait a second. Did we on four...then was four extended? Commissioner Mourdock: Right, from six to 12 months. Commissioner Tuley: Okay, and all we're doing is deferring on three and five then? President Jerrel: Right. Commissioner Tuley: Just so I understand. President Jerrel: Okay. Tim Suenram: Thank you.
President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is the County Clerk. Is there anyone here to represent the County Clerk? If not, in your packet is the information and this is a contract that-- Tony Greubel: It's just a renewal of an existing contract with them. President Jerrel: Yeah, of an existing one. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move renewal of the contract between Vanderburgh County and Government Payment Service as requested by the County Clerk. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered.
President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is the Auditor's Office. Suzanne Crouch: We are submitting the fixed asset inventory report for your...whatever you do with it. Commissioner Mourdock: Acceptance. Suzanne Crouch: Yeah, acceptance and approval, sorry. President Jerrel: Is there a motion to that effect? Commissioner Mourdock: So moved. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered.
President Jerrel: At this time we are going to have a presentation on our bike path. Maura Carriel: My name is Maura Carriel.
I'm a transportation planner with the Evansville Urban Transportation Study.
You should have received in your packet a copy of our draft bicycle and
pedestrian plan. I did notice that you have your map up on the wall. I'm
not sure if anybody has had a chance to review that, but what I am going
to do today or tonight is just to give you a brief presentation and then
I'll open it up for any questions. I feel that's probably the best way
to approach this. As I said, we're presenting this for your review and
comment tonight. The draft is actually out for public comment through February
18th. Ultimately though we would be looking for the Commission's approval
and adoption of this document, but whether that happens tonight or at a
further date, you know, is to your pleasure. I do need to set up a projector
and I'll give probably about a ten minute presentation if you have time
for that.
President Jerrel: While you are doing that I think we'll move on to Item K, which is the EMA approval of Hazard Awareness Week resolution. That's...I don't think there is anything on here. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll defer reading this into the record, but we were asked to come forward with this as we normally do at about this time of year, so I would move approval of the Hazard Awareness Week resolution for February 6 through the 12 for the year 2000. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: And I'll say so ordered. That relates to the tornado belt, possibility of earthquakes, floods, thunderstorms and winter storms, which we've had a little bit of all of that. Commissioner Mourdock: But they took off Y2K. That was on there last year. President Jerrel: Yeah, we didn't
have Y2K.
President Jerrel: As you begin to address your program we have had a few calls from individuals and so if you would linger on the streets where you are going to ask people to not park and you might want to express how you're going to make people aware of that other than just putting up a no parking sign. Maura Carriel: Sure. Real quickly, as you know we've presented to City Council, Warrick County Commissioners and to the Town of Newburgh. The issues are actually quite different for each of those jurisdictions and I'll explain tonight. We're looking at, again, a different set of issues for the county. I'll go through that through my presentation. President Jerrel: Are you thinking...when you say county are you thinking of the small sense or the entire county? You're thinking of the entire county bike plan? Maura Carriel: Specifically I am thinking outside of the city of Evansville, the city limits. President Jerrel: Okay, well, I was thinking in terms of the definition we are the entire county. Maura Carriel: Okay. President Jerrel: So when you talk about taking parking off streets even though...and this has been before City Council and approved? Maura Carriel: They wanted more time to ask questions and it's going back in the beginning of March. President Jerrel: Alright. Maura Carriel: Just real quickly, a lot of people, I think, sometimes question why we do bicycle and pedestrian planning and why we invest time in it. There are several reasons that we think this is an important issue and one of the first reasons which is actually my last bullet is it's a Federal Highway Administration requirement. The federal government, under its current transportation funding bill, basically has stipulated that any time federal funds are used on a road, highway project that bicycles...bicyclists and pedestrians must be taken into consideration. That is basically where we get our planning mandates and they require the preparation of a bicycle plan so what we feel our plan does is basically takes a comprehensive approach to planning for bicycles and pedestrians and provides some guidelines for the local jurisdictions to follow. Other reasons, improve the safety of those who currently bicycle and walk. There are people who use these as modes of transportation or for recreation and their safety is a factor. Better accessibility for all residents and it's kind of interesting to hear the people here talking about the welfare to work because bicycling and walking are both options. They are very low cost. People that can't afford a car and don't have access to a car can use these in certain areas where the trips are relatively short. More efficient use of the existing transportation system in that more people and more travelers can be accommodated by improving facilities for bicyclists and walkers. They basically have little impact in terms of wear and tear on the roadways. Quality of life is a big issue. This is one of the issues I think that the newspaper has picked up on and a lot of the calls and comments that we get talk about quality of life and how bicycle/pedestrian friendly communities offer some advantages that other places to live don't. Public health is also an issue. Just giving people the opportunity to get out and cycle safely or to walk safely will improve public health overall. Lastly, local air quality problems. Nobody would...I would not stand up here and argue and say that bicycle and pedestrian traffic is the solution to the air quality problem, but it is certainly one strategy that if the community can successfully convince some people to use bicycling and walking for some of their shorter trips instead of driving a car it is a strategy. The plan is divided into two elements, a bike plan and a pedestrian plan. The bicycle plan recommendations include a bikeway network which you have on the map behind you. Those are a whole range of possible ways to accommodate bicyclists on the streets. Planning activities, things like roadway planning when new developments come in, ways to influence and accommodate bicyclists in the design of new development and new roads. Bike parking is another issue that we have pulled out separately. The need for people to be able to put their bike and lock it somewhere is going to be a major influence in how they decide...whether they decide to use a bicycle. Education and encouragement are also other important aspects. You can't just do a design. You can't just design a solution, but you also have to educate people on the rights of cyclists to use the road and how people should interact on the roads together. And lastly, law enforcement and more or less what this is is looking long-term, I guess, at the possibility of improving law enforcement for cyclists because cyclist when they ride on the street are required to follow the same traffic rules that autos do. Ensuring that people number one understand how to operate and number two that they do operate within those laws is another safety factor. One of the biggest attention getters is the bikeway network. It's kind of difficult to see on the overhead. The maps are good for close-up viewing. Basically, what we've done is come up with a proposed network of roads that with bicycle accommodations can facilitate bike traffic not only within Vanderburgh County but to neighboring Warrick County as well. We have a selection of east/west and north/south streets and they would require different types of treatment based on how much traffic they carry, what the roadway characteristics are, how wide it is and whether there is on street parking. Just to give you a quick idea of some of the facilities, our plan we have coordinated with the Greenway to make sure that what we're planning works with what the Greenway is planning. The Greenway is looking generally at separated trails and what we're looking at are ways to make the streets themselves a little more safe for bicycle travel. The most simple and inexpensive improvement would be a bike route. This is just taking a low volume road and just signing it...putting up signs designate it as a bike route. One example in the city of Evansville would be Alvord Boulevard where people currently ride there. It's safe to ride, there are no engineering fixes or anything that need to be applied. Basically you are signing people so that they can have a back way into maybe a shopping center or Wesselman's Park in this case. Wide curb lanes are another acceptable application. This is basically using a 14 foot travel lane instead of a 12 foot travel lane. It allows a cyclist and a motorist to be able to operate side-by-side without the motorist having to cross the center line to pass. Commissioner Mourdock: When you use that designation are you suggesting then that the six or eight foot wide on either side would be painted? How is that delineated? Maura Carriel: There is no pavement markings required for that. You can designate a wide curb lane as part of a bike route, but in effect by just providing that extra space it meets the standards for bike travel. The next would be a paved shoulder. Again, these are all standard treatments that meet the federal design standards. A minimum of a four foot paved shoulder is perfectly acceptable for bike travel and particularly in rural areas this is the desired treatment. Bike lanes are more of what you would find in the city. This is where you start looking at parking issues. Bike lanes require a designated space on the street. They can be alongside of parking, five foot in width and they are actually marked with a white stripe and stencils. Lastly, an example would be the Greenway and that is a separated trail. Generally they are along railroad right-of-way or along the levee. Typically they are not used alongside of a street because there are a lot of other issues that are involved in that. One of the issues in the city is the fact of the possibility or the likelihood of having to remove on street parking in certain areas in order to put a bike lane or a wide curb lane down. As you've seen there are a couple of different types of treatment that can be used and the approach that we've taken with the plan is that we have identified desirable streets and we've looked at some possible applications of bike lane or wide curb lane and in that situation would that require the removal of on street parking on either one side of the street or both sides of the street or whether it would be necessary at all. Another issue is also along sections of Covert and Bellemeade and these are in your table...these are in your report, I think Table 4. We have identified those areas that would require either the removal of on street parking or possibly even the removal of a travel lane and that is generally the case only on Bellemeade and portions of Covert. This approach from our perspective gives the city and the county the flexibility to decide at a point when you are able to make a little more specific study whether that is feasible or unfeasible. There are also some other possible ways to accommodate cyclists or to improve the safety of bike travel without taking those steps of doing a bike lane or wide curb lane and that would entail basically putting up signs just alerting motorists to the fact that they might see bicyclists there. That wouldn't require any kind of an on street improvement. Those signs right now are not part of the federal standard. The federal standards regarding signs are being updated and they expect to put a "share the road" sign with the bicycle logo as one of the standard signs and if that does happen it's likely that the State of Indiana would also adopt that and it could be used. So that is basically one area of flexibility within the city limits that we could use if on street parking...it's not feasible to remove the on street parking or reduce travel lanes. You do have that option in selected areas in using a "share the road" sign. Once you get outside of the city limits what you're really dealing with are rural roads. The roads on the network were selected because they provide through connections into the city and across the county. The issues there are a little different in that they're not currently at a state where you could designate a bike facility. They really need some kind of an engineering treatment in order to bring them up to standard before you could suggest that cyclists use those streets. So this table is not in your report, I put this together this afternoon. This list outside of the city limits the roadways that are on the bikeway network as you can see quite a few of these roads are already in the long range transportation plans scheduled for some kind of improvement. So these are the ten year and 20 year out projects. President Jerrel: Could you read the roads? We get the bottom ones, but the top are a little bit blurred, the county. Commissioner Mourdock: Boonville-New Harmony, Petersburg. The ones at the far left? President Jerrel: Boonville-New Harmony. Maura Carriel: Boonville-New Harmony from Darmstadt Road to about I-64. Petersburg Road and Old Petersburg Road between 57 and Baseline. Oak Hill Road from Lynch Road to 57. Old State Road from Campground Road north to Boonville-New Harmony Road. Those are all on the north, the northern part of the county. On the east side, Virginia Street from the city limits basically out to where it ends near 164. On the west side, New Harmony Road and Harmony Way coming in. A short section of Hogue Road and a loop around Burdette Park that is mainly comprised of Broadway, Nurrenbern and a short section of Red Bank. President Jerrel: You left out a good one. Maura Carriel: What's that? President Jerrel: Well, if you ask any bikers you didn't mention Old Henderson Road and you can connect up and use that circle with USI and Burdette and that's flat and 12 miles...12 ½ miles to the end and back is a good 25 mile ride. Maura Carriel: Yeah, I know that there is a lot of recreational cycling that takes place out there and that is something that we can look at adding, too. We do have the Greenway...one of the Greenway's long range plan was also to create some kind of a trail heading from Nurrenbern south and also a separated trail coming across the south side of the USI property into the back entrance. Commissioner Mourdock: Maura, you just said something that is very interesting because when Bettye Lou told you which route she rides, and she probably rides more miles on a bike in a year than anybody else in this room, you said that there is a lot of recreational biking. Is this plan and as it is put together to meet the federal highway specs is it meant to deal with recreational biking or is it supposed to be a real serious form of go to work, go to school, alternate transportation? Maura Carriel: It's both, but primarily for a travel mode for transportation purposes. In other words, the federal highway government is saying we understand that there is crossover, that you're going to improve or increase recreational use as well, but the federal dollars they are looking more at funding projects that get cars off the road or a substitute for a car trip. Commissioner Mourdock: That explains why then on your map there is nothing really up into the northern part of the county because even though there is, again, a lot of recreational riding up there and there is a lot of shift in population. Maura Carriel: Right. We do have...and I would be interested in hearing if you think there are some other roads that should go on there, but one of the things that we did was to work with the Evansville Bike Club who do...a group that does a lot of cycling out in that area and look at some of the roads that they are currently using, but what we also tried to do was to look for connections to get people from those high growth areas into the city or across the county. So as I said earlier, this is still out for public review and I am expecting that we are going to get comments and definitely we can make changes to this. President Jerrel: Some of your city streets you wouldn't want anyone to be riding on them during peak times. It's way too dangerous. Maura Carriel: It's...there are different levels of riders, I guess. I, myself, commute. I commuted about 600 miles this last year and I am comfortable riding on Walnut Street during peak hours. I definitely wouldn't suggest that people take small children out there, so there are different levels of comfort and some people will cycle on just about anything, I guess. What we have tried to do is come up with a good mix of roads that have lower volumes with a different kind of treatment versus roads with higher volumes of traffic that sometimes are the most direct way to get somewhere and sometimes they are the only way to get somewhere. So we have heard some comments. People are saying that some of these roads are too high traffic, but the intent is to try and improve the safety somehow because they are sometimes the logical choice for a direct, quick connection. President Jerrel: Are you taking into consideration also that those areas where people maybe don't have any place to park their car so that if you remove-- Maura Carriel: Right. President Jerrel: I mean, some of that Bellemeade area. You know, there are some homes that really-- Maura Carriel: Right. And that's the...instead of doing all of that detailed study now which would take an immense amount of work, again, our approach was to identify some projects and I guess the progression would be that the city or the county would pick a project and then do a more detailed study of the need for on street parking, feasibility of removing it and if it can't be done then to look at some of those other...or the other option which would be to wait to see if that particular "share the road" sign is approved and that could be used in certain areas where you really expect people to travel by bike and there is no other way to accommodate them. Or the other choice would be to look at an alternative route. President Jerrel: Okay. Maura Carriel: Can I run through the pedestrian plan real quick? President Jerrel: Sure, uh-huh. Maura Carriel: I guess just one note, again, as I said in the county a lot of the...outside of the city limits what you're looking at are the roadway projects that are going to be coming in for design over the next five, ten, 20 years and so what we're emphasizing most in the plan for those parts of the county is that bicyclists are taken into consideration when those roads are designed whether it's an upgrade in being able to add on two more extra feet of pavement or a paved shoulder. Those are the types of things that in the county outside of the city limits you would be looking at really affecting the design of the roads. Commissioner Mourdock: Do you know since this is federally mandated that we consider these plans if we wanted to take a road and extend it from let's say 20 feet to 24 feet in width is there any matching money from the feds that would help us do that extra four feet? Maura Carriel: Well, there are transportation enhancement funds or Congestive Mitigation Air Quality funds that I think probably would be...the cost of adding the shoulders into it would be an eligible use. In other words, it would be an add on to the construction cost of the road. President Jerrel: Yeah, construction, but not right-of-way. Commissioner Mourdock: Ah, okay. Maura Carriel: Right, not right-of-way. President Jerrel: And also in addition to the not right-of-way where the cost is most of our CMAQ money goes to intersections where-- Commissioner Mourdock: Keep the traffic flow. President Jerrel: The traffic flow going so if you want to be really realistic we're likely not to be in a position to have that money because it is already committed to Morgan. Maura Carriel: Right. Some of it is, but I think...I'm not sure if our, and I don't know if you know, Pam, if our allocations have increased or are expected to increase, but I know that we are-- President Jerrel: If we get 17,000 more people we'll increase. Maura Carriel: It's a trade-off, I guess. President Jerrel: Yes, it is. Maura Carriel: It's a balance. The pedestrian plan, very similar to the bike plan. What we're looking at here are recommendations regarding new developments whether they are residential developments or commercial developments. Talking about things like sidewalk policies and whether or not sidewalks are a part of that development or not. From a pedestrian planning perspective we are obviously recommending that sidewalks are incorporated into any new development within limits. I mean, if you are talking about large lot residential subdivisions it's not necessary. Also, road construction both federally and also local that pedestrians are considered and the need for sidewalks is addressed. Sidewalk construction, that being construction in new areas where you are not looking at a redevelopment and then just the maintenance of sidewalks. In the city I think this is a bigger issue where you have a lot of older sidewalks and their obstructions tend to clutter like mailboxes and newspaper vending machines and that type of thing. Pedestrian crossings, particularly across 41 is the biggest concern, but also in a lot of other locations and we recognize the need to try to improve the safety of pedestrians particularly crossing those busy streets. Education and encouragement, again some of these things are outlined and I'm not going to run through them. They are outlined in your report. Lastly, again, law enforcement. Make sure that people understand the rules of the road and that they're supposed to yield to a pedestrian who is in the crosswalk and that type of thing. I did have just the last couple of slides. These are in your report and I don't know if you wanted me to go through them. Basically, these talk about the pedestrian plan recommendations and how they would be implemented and who would be responsible for implementation. One thing that we have already talked to Roger Lehman about with the GIS...development of the GIS network is whether or not sidewalks were going to be included in that inventory and we've been told that they are included in that inventory which from a planning perspective is a really valuable piece of information to have. I guess instead of going through those I would just like to open it for any other questions that you might have. President Jerrel: Any questions? Commissioner Tuley: I would just like to...I guess the plan is just to take it under advisement. President Jerrel: Okay, is that a motion? Commissioner Tuley: I'll so move. Commissioner Mourdock: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. Commissioner Mourdock: You know, the one issue Maura raised there towards the end just causes me to think a little bit. I mean, we're supposed to be here thinking in long-term and we have all these new subdivisions out in the country that we're routinely giving sidewalk waivers for because everyone knows they're out in the country. Some day they're not going to be out in the country. President Jerrel: They may be in Gibson County. Commissioner Mourdock: That's true. They keep going that way, but maybe that is something we should think about. I'm not suggesting at all that we start mandating sidewalks in every one of those subdivision out in the country, but somehow tying those things together for pedestrian and bicycle stuff might be a worthwhile process. President Jerrel: Thank you. Would it be appropriate for me to thank you for your work on this effort? You are going to be leaving EUTS, so this has been a very good project for you. Let us thank you. Maura Carriel: I appreciate everybody's time in looking at it and considering it. The next time it comes back you'll see somebody else, but I hope it goes through. President Jerrel: Thank you very much. Maura Carriel: Thank you.
President Jerrel: Alright, at this
time is there any group that wishes to speak to the Commissioners at this
point?
President Jerrel: Alright, moving on to the County Engineer. John Stoll: The first item I've got is a request for street plan approval for Carrington Subdivision. This is a subdivision on Petersburg Road north of Boonville-New Harmony. It's across from Stonecrest Subdivision which was recently approved. The streets will all be curb and gutter streets. It basically falls...the property falls from west to east at about a three percent grade. The retention pond will drain out into the right-of-way for Petersburg Road and they are going to regrade the roadside ditch along Petersburg Road with a couple of changes that the engineer made. It's recommended that these plans be approved. Commissioner Mourdock: So moved. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. John Stoll: The second item I've got is in regard to the signal modifications at the intersection of Diamond and Fulton. Last September I brought a recommendation before you for an estimated cost of $2,000 to relocate the signal pole at the southeast corner of the intersection. I received an invoice from Dave Savage today and the final cost was $3,256.14. The reason for the increase when they were augering out the hole for the new pole they were hitting concrete and other debris, so it took them longer to drill the hole and they also had to end up pouring some concrete to hold the anchors on the guy wires, so it is recommended that the increase from $2,000 to $3,256.14 be approved. Commissioner Mourdock: The hole didn't move after they drilled it. Commissioner Tuley: I'm glad you said something. I was getting ready to say we finally hit something solid when we're drilling. John Stoll: I think they had to put something solid in there. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the request for the change order. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. John Stoll: The final item, we'll need to set a date for a road hearing some time soon. We've gotten a couple of phone calls and one of them was in regard to our favorite Lyle Road. Commissioner Tuley: You've already gotten calls? John Stoll: Yes. Commissioner Tuley: I know you've got a call and I know I've got a call. Commissioner Mourdock: We normally do that the second or third week in March, I think has kind of been the history. President Jerrel: Right. Well, what about the 13th of March? Does that sound okay to you? John Stoll: Yeah, that's fine. President Jerrel: Or the 6th? Commissioner Mourdock: Let's do the 13th. Commissioner Tuley: The 13th. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move the 13th of March as our annual highway road review meeting. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. Commissioner Mourdock: And move permission to advertise for that date. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. John Stoll: A couple of other things. There were some questions brought up a couple of weeks ago at the meeting about the median on Cross Pointe. I believe you asked about that, Richard. We sent a work order to the Traffic Department to paint that and put some reflectors on it so hopefully that will make it a little more visible. Commissioner Mourdock: Painting it with some reflective-- John Stoll: Reflective yellow paint, yes. In regard to the drainage complaint at the Chambliss house out there on Indiana Woods, Beaver Trail, Seasons area, Jagoe Homes is going to make the corrections. I guess there was some damage done when SIGECOM went and trenched through the drainage easement to put their cable in. That damage will be repaired and then Jagoe will make an extra effort to make sure the inlets stay clean and they have also got a meeting set up with the Chambliss' tomorrow at noon so any additional concerns that Chambliss might have we'll find out then. I talked to Mike Robling in regard to the reimbursements for Replas. It is my understanding he called you, Richard. Commissioner Mourdock: Yes, he did. He didn't give me a lot of answers he just kind of told me that he had not heard anything from the Matrix Group. They have a form that they are supposed to fill out and apparently have not yet gotten that back to him. John Stoll: Right, that's what he said was holding up all the reimbursements. Not all, but the final reimbursement to them, to Matrix. President Jerrel: We had this trouble before. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah. President Jerrel: You solved it. Commissioner Mourdock: I...yeah, okay. President Jerrel: So-- Commissioner Mourdock: One time. I don't know if I can solve it again. President Jerrel: I know but I think that was...I think maybe if you would make the call it would help. Commissioner Mourdock: I will call them and ask them to fill the form in so that they can get the money. John Stoll: Get their money. Commissioner Mourdock: It's an odd situation. John Stoll: And the other item I still need to get with Erik in regards to the drainage out in front of Wilner's property there on Inglefield, but once I get a chance to talk to Erik about the possibility of them being able to lay the pipe across Inglefield Road then I'll talk to Wilner about him replacing the ditch piping along Inglefield. Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. John Stoll: That's all I've got. President Jerrel: Okay, thank you.
President Jerrel: The County Highway
Department asked if they could be off tonight. They've had a long...so
they're off. You do have the report though.
Joe Harrison, Jr.: The only item I have involves a request for approval of a proposal for, I think, it's $2,100 from Bernardin Lochmueller for additional legal descriptions or for legal descriptions to be provided to the county concerning the boundary survey concerning the Building Authority property and other areas that the county and city may acquire within the next several months and I would ask that you consider that request. Also, the boundary information has already been prepared and this is just additional work and the city is going to help fund half of the total cost of the whole project. President Jerrel: Okay. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the $2,100 expenditure for the surveys. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. Joe Harrison, Jr.: That's all I have.
President Jerrel: Superintendent of County Buildings. Tony Greubel: In the signature file
I submitted a claim to Ogden for reimbursement for their expenses. The
pink slip from the County Highway Department, that's not really late. That
was misplaced from the others on Friday, so then today I put it back in
the signature. It was on time. It's my fault it wasn't in there. That's
it.
President Jerrel: Burdette Park. Steve Craig: Steve Craig, Manager of Burdette. Outside of our work packet the only thing I have is a request that we be considered for any surplus equipment from the Vanderburgh County Work Release Jobs Program when they disband. President Jerrel: We haven't gotten a detailed sheet with anything on it, so I don't know. Commissioner Mourdock: If there is equipment from the Jobs Program does that belong to the county or the Jobs Program? President Jerrel: Well, it belongs to the Jobs Program, Inc. because it was paid for with funding that they received for doing contracts which came from work release which is funded at the county, so did I take you all the way around the circle? Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, that's a good answer, but it didn't fit the question. President Jerrel: So if we could get a list, Brad, I know they had something circulating. A list that would give us, you know, what is available and then perhaps, Steve, you could do an official request to the judge and ask for whatever would be something you could use. Steve Craig: Yeah, because when we was at the County Council meeting they had discussed on what they were going to do when they disbanded and that and I was under the impression then that it was county funds that had bought most of it. President Jerrel: Well, you don't want me to do that again, do you? Commissioner Tuley: No. Steve Craig: I understand what you said. President Jerrel: Right. Commissioner Tuley: It would make a great bicycle path, wouldn't it? President Jerrel: Yeah, a circle. If we could get the description of the pieces of equipment then you could say what would be appropriate and that you could use and then I think you ought to fire a letter off right away. Steve Craig: I appreciate that. President Jerrel: Okay. We do have
your report.
Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the reports from the Ozone Officer, Soil & Water, Burdette Park and the Highway Department. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. Steve Craig: Thank you. President Jerrel: Thank you very much.
President Jerrel: Are there any questions about any of the consent items? Just a note that there is one, the one that was here that does have a six month extended leave on it. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, I'll move that-- Joe Harrison, Jr.: I think it's longer than that. President Jerrel: Is it? Joe Harrison, Jr.: Uh-huh. President Jerrel: I thought that was all the longer we could go. Joe Harrison, Jr.: I'm not too sure what it says. It looks like it says-- Tony Greubel: The Family Medical, that's expired. This is asking for a special leave of absence. Joe Harrison, Jr.: Oh, it's up till June 1st. President Jerrel: Yeah. Joe Harrison, Jr.: Okay, I didn't know what the date was. President Jerrel: Yeah. Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move that consent item be added to the pack. Commissioner Tuley: Second. Commissioner Mourdock: And move approval of the consent items. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered and so
ordered.
President Jerrel: Is there any old business? Commissioner Mourdock: I understand Sheriff Ellsworth is back there somewhere, I think. Just one quick point. The Sheriff did receive from the individual that he is contracting with which is PMSI a draft proposal which I had delivered out to my office this afternoon. I haven't seen it. Brad, I don't know if you have any comments you care to make at this point? Brad Ellsworth: Not at this time. We just got it faxed late Friday night and I picked up my first copy this morning. It was a preliminary draft he would like us to review and see if there is anything in there we would like added or that we specifically want to ask for so I don't have a lot to add at this time. I'm still trying to read through that too. I want to let the Commission also know...well, go ahead and I'll tell you. Commissioner Mourdock: I would just say I'll make copies for-- Brad Ellsworth: I've got some. Commissioner Mourdock: For Bettye Lou and Pat? Brad Ellsworth: About three. The other thing, I did meet, had a two hour meeting, with the gentleman who approached the Commission the last meeting and had an enjoyable two hour meeting with him and he has asked for my blessing, if that is necessary, to meet with other county officials and then the judiciary so I gave him that. I'm writing up some things from his...he had some interesting suggestions. Some that might not be doable, but interesting. Commissioner Mourdock: To the jail specifically do we know what the population has been the last few days? Where are you bumping at? Brad Ellsworth: Yeah, it's hovering between 348 and about 355. In that area. High in the morning and low in the afternoon. Commissioner Mourdock: As a practical matter would it be possible that we could keep track in some way on a weekly basis as to say the 25 people who have been in the jail the longest period of time? Obviously, we've got an overcrowding problem. President Jerrel: Or 50. Commissioner Mourdock: Well, I don't know what the practical limit is. President Jerrel: Yeah. Commissioner Mourdock: I guess it would be easy to ask if every day we could know how long each person had been in there, that would be one thing, but I have a hunch that would be a pretty burdensome task. Maybe 50 is easy, maybe 25 is too much, I don't know. Brad Ellsworth: Have you been receiving the e-mail from my Chief Deputy about the list of everybody in jail and the information that is now supplied? Commissioner Mourdock: No. Brad Ellsworth: If you're not on that I'll include it. We've been e-mailing the judges and the prosecutor. It's something the new computer program has allowed us to do, to list the defendant, the cause number, the number of days he has spent in jail, the charges, his bond and when his next court date is. We're looking into defense attorney, but there are some interesting numbers there that I think the last time I looked the number that the highest person was in there was 400 and something days. Commissioner Mourdock: Do you have which court that is being heard by? Brad Ellsworth: Actually that should be able to be told by the cause number. I believe that is specified-- President Jerrel: You'll know whether it is Circuit or Superior. Brad Ellsworth: Sure. President Jerrel: But what you were implying was who is the judge. Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, I was just wondering if we could look at it, you know, individual judges, individual defense attorneys. Brad Ellsworth: I'll ask Eric tomorrow. We were going to get that. Joe and I were talking this afternoon about that, about what else we can pull from that same report. Commissioner Mourdock: I just feel very strongly we need to keep demonstrating not just for our own benefit, but we need to build that paper trail just in case some federal judge looks at us to say you're not doing anything. I think everything we can do and document what we're doing is going to help prevent that day and obviously we all know we need to do something different. Which maybe this is the right time, maybe it's the wrong time. Brad and I have spoken to this briefly, but I know the week I was out of town, the first meeting of this year, there was a request made for the Health Department space that if in fact that space were vacated by the Health Department might it be converted to a courtroom or several courtrooms and had I been here that night I would of suggested as well that maybe we consider trying to use that for temporary jail space if in fact those folks move out, if the Health Department moves out. I don't know, Brad, if you have given any more thought to that or if that is something that might possibly be within the realm of reasonable or do you think that's-- Brad Ellsworth: Well, I think some of the concerns that come to mind immediately, and I think we talked about this, was the personnel to move down there to supervise them. I don't know about hanging the steel in there to separate the people. Transporting meals from the kitchen jail down would be a concern. Transferring to court wouldn't be much of a concern, but I think we would be looking at some personnel issues and like I said the food and meals. We already take inmates through the Civic Center to the Health Department for our medical now, so that's not a big deal walking through the halls of the Civic Center. Commissioner Mourdock: Those are all valid concerns. I guess the other question is are those any greater concerns than having the federal judge say, oh by the way-- Brad Ellsworth: Not a bit. Commissioner Mourdock: --you know, go build a $35 or $40 million dollar jail. Brad Ellsworth: We've been working in some strange, you know, situations now so that wouldn't...we can adapt. President Jerrel: Just to bring you up-to-date on the negotiations. I spoke with Dr. Del Rio Thursday and in fact we had a meeting scheduled and a baby got in the way of that wanting to be delivered at 2:30 in the afternoon, so we didn't get to have our meeting, but we did speak and she has called a special meeting of her Board of Health, I think in about three or four weeks. They've got it set up and they hope to have their proposal ready to submit to Visiting Nurses, so they are moving along. Commissioner Mourdock: Good. I suspect it can always be misinterpreted, but some federal judge may order us to build a new jail. No federal judge is going to order us to build new courtrooms. I'm just trying to find...and certainly I would like to see us get some new courtrooms and Judge Bauer's request to do something over at the Old Courthouse is still appreciated and if we could do something there that might help that process. Brad Ellsworth: I know that Judge Pigman, and I think it was even in the paper-- Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah. Brad Ellsworth: --that he held some court over there this week, some civil court. We did open up the new cell that now puts the official capacity at 268. We filled that this week. Commissioner Mourdock: So we gained 12, right? Two fifty-six to 268? Brad Ellsworth: Right, 268 now will be the official capacity until we find another closet to convert. Commissioner Mourdock: I keep waiting one day to walk into the office here and see some bars. Brad Ellsworth: Don't think we haven't talked about that either! And trailers in the back parking lot and fences. President Jerrel: Schools do that when they get overcrowded. Brad Ellsworth: We've talked about that, too. President Jerrel: Those trailers out there. Brad Ellsworth: I know a jurisdiction that floated a barge out in their river and held prisoners on a barge. Commissioner Mourdock: Really. President Jerrel: I met with someone today who was a federal...in charge of federal prisons and he said he transported 10,000 a year out of the country because they didn't want to have to build so he was...I learned a lot today. Commissioner Tuley: Out of the country? President Jerrel: Out of the country. Commissioner Mourdock: Federal? President Jerrel: Federal. Brad Ellsworth: I talked to the Los Angeles, I guess she was the head jailer in Los Angeles County. I think their inmate population, I don't know, might have been 12,000 or something like that, but in the mornings because they are under federal mandate they load a lot of...they have several jails and they will bus inmates from one to another and they do their count while the inmates are in the buses and that doesn't count towards their total and they do the counts while they are in transit between the judges and all day long they are transferring them around to circumvent the mandate. Commissioner Mourdock: Once again we know-- Commissioner Tuley: Keep moving them. Brad Ellsworth: We only have one bus. Thank you, I appreciate all your help and cooperation on this problem. President Jerrel: If you could, I would like to look at that-- Brad Ellsworth: It's an interesting report and like I said we just started producing that this week and then end of last week-- President Jerrel: No, I meant the proposal. Brad Ellsworth: Oh, absolutely. President Jerrel: Even though it is preliminary. Brad Ellsworth: Sure, we've got it in the back. President Jerrel: Thank you very much, Brad. Brad Ellsworth: Thank you.
President Jerrel: Any new business? Motion to adjourn? Commissioner Mourdock: So moved. Commissioner Tuley: Second. President Jerrel: So ordered. The meeting was adjourned at 7:00 p.m. Employment changes: County Highway Circuit Court Sheriff's Department Health Department Coop Extension Service Veterans Service Department Area Plan Commission Community Corrections Center Township Assessor Vanderburgh Superior Court Travel requests: County Assessor Knight Township Assessor Health Department (5) Auditor's Office: Covered Bridge Certification Treasurer's Office Submitting monthly report Knight Township Trustee: Poor relief standards Sheriff's Department: Surplus copy machine Weights & Measures: Submitting monthly report Blue claims Those in attendance:
Vanderburgh County
Bettye Lou Jerrel, President Richard E. Mourdock, Vice President Patrick Tuley, Member
Recorded and transcribed by Charlene Timmons.
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