VANDERBURGH COUNTY
BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
EMERGENCY SPECIAL MEETING
JANUARY 9, 2003
The Vanderburgh County Board of Commissioners met in emergency special session on this 9th day of January, 2003 at 4:35 p.m. in Room 307 of the Civic Center Complex with President David Mosby presiding.
President Mosby: I would like to call to order special meeting of Vanderburgh County Board of Commissioners, January 9, 2003. First stand and join us while John leads us in the Pledge.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was given.)
President Mosby: Thank you, John. This meeting was called, do we have to suspend business? Normal business?
Kevin Winternheimer: No.
President Mosby: Okay. This meeting was called, a special meeting of the Board of Commissioners, to address the issue of the Toughman Contest that is to be held at the Centre tomorrow night. It is my understanding from corporate counsel, and from head of the Centre from SMG, Sandie Aarons, that the Toughman Association organization does not have insurance to cover participants. They have insurance to cover the spectators, and anybody in the audience that would be affected by this, but not the participants. So, Kevin, do you or Sandie want to address anymore?
Kevin Winternheimer: I would, if you have a few moments.
President Mosby: Sure.
Kevin Winternheimer: Just to build a record. I know I’ve talked to you, Mr. President, about this, but so that everyone gets a background on what’s going on here. I have some articles that, I think, best explains my concerns. To give you a little background, I received a call late Tuesday morning from a gentleman by the name of Malcom Garrett out of LaPorte, Indiana. I asked him what his business was, and he said he is a professional boxing promoter. He does not do these kind of contests, but he has done professional boxing matches, and he was raising concerns about the Toughman Contest, and informed me what was involved in these type of contests compared to professional, or even sanctioned, amateur boxing contests. He raised a concern of mine, and he faxed me, Tuesday afternoon, much information, which I made some telephone calls. I had, I talked to a lady, her name is Irene Postma, and she’s with the USA Boxing and Olympic Commission out west...I forget, I’ve got her number, but I don’t know her address. They oversee amateur boxing, Olympic and Pan American type boxing games, and other type of amateur events. I also talked to and called one of the Indiana Boxing Commissioners. His name is Jacob Hall, and he supplied a great deal of information, and also expressed many concerns about these type of events. In a short summary, these events are not your typical amateur boxing matches. These are not, in any way, similar to a professional boxing match. There are many, many dangers associated with the Toughman Contest, not the least of which is the participants, many times, are not aware of the potential hazards, dangers, and risks involved to themselves. If it’s okay, what I would like to do is just read some excerpts from some articles that were sent to me. This morning I received an e-mail, an article from the Indianapolis Star, and the article is by Matthew Tully, and let me, if I might, just read parts of it. It’s entitled, “ City kicks out Toughman event”. It says, the city, and they are talking about Indianapolis;
“The city has taken a knockout swing at the Original Toughman Contest , an amateur fighting competition planned for this weekend. The city, however, canceled the event Wednesday. Fred Glass, head of the city agency that oversees the convention center, said the fight organizer failed to meet insurance and fire marshall requirements. He added, however, that the state’s three Boxing Commissioners first raised other concerns, serious injuries that may been suffered by participants at similar events in the country. “Each of the commissioners talked to me, and said this was bad news, and we ought not let it happen if we can avoid it”, Glass said. Boxing Commissioner member, Ed Treacy, said that panel didn’t have the authority over the event, so he made sure that city officials knew about past problems. “We saw this as a potential disaster.”, he said.”
In another article that was sent to me, and this is from the Wichita Eagle, Wichita, Kansas. It’s dated September 21, 2002. It’s entitled, “Toughman competitor dies Friday”. I’m just going to read excerpts of this. It says;
“Officials with the Texas Department of Licensing Regulation, which oversees all “combatitive sports” in the state, said Kuhn is the first known person in Texas to suffer head injuries and die after a Toughman competition. He was the second Toughman competitor to die as a result of injuries suffered last Saturday. Art Liggins died that night after suffering head injuries in a Toughman fight in Boise, Idaho. In addition to the two deaths within the last week–
Again, this was dated September 21, 2002–
“In addition to the two deaths within the last week, there previously have been Toughman deaths in Pennsylvania, Kansas, Alabama, Louisiana, and Michigan. Toughman contests are banned in at least four states.”
He goes on, in another article, and this is dated, well, I guess, a previous article. Friday, March 10, 2000, it’s entitled, “Greg Lamb, who suffered a head injury in 1998 prize fight, seeks $150,000.” This is in the Wichita Eagle, and it’s by a, and I pronounce it correctly, by Novelda Sommers. Again, I believe this is March, 2000. Reading segments of the article, it says;
“It’s an annual event here that recently became the subject of a lawsuit in which a 26 year old man wants the city and Toughman contest promoters to pay for injuries he suffered in a 1998 event. Greg Lamb is suing the city of Wichita, the Michigan company that promotes the event, local promoter Greg Gorrell and a referee that Lambs says should have stopped the match. In a lawsuit filed February 22 in Sedgwich County District Court, Lamb asked for payment of medical bills and compensation for past and future lost wages. Lamb suffered more than $75,000 in losses, according to the lawsuit, but his lawyer, Kevin Rider, said that amount could change. The lawsuit also states that Lamb’s two children lost at least $75,000 in parental services, training, guidance and advice.”
They go on to talk about, later on in that same article, it says, apparently the litigant had marital troubles, but it says;
“His ex-wife, Misty King, said their relationship was strained before Lamb was injured. The night of the fight that led to months of rehab for Lamb was the night he asked for a divorce. But as he lay in a coma, King said, she could see that he needed her more than ever. When he awoke, it was like having another child to care for, she said.”
The article goes on later to say that, and this in, I assume, in Wichita.
“Health board member, George Potts, said he considers the contest to be unsafe because fighters don’t necessarily train for boxing, and participants could be easily out-matched. “It’s not a sport,” he said. “It’s just like a street fight.”
Okay. Again, from the Wichita Eagle, and this is the article dated September 22, 2002. It says, “Death puts Toughman’s risks into focus.”, and reading, again, excerpts from the article. It said;
“The question of Toughman’s safety was, once again, raised last week after the death of Michael Kuhn, a 26 year old father of two from College Station, who suffered severe head injuries during a September 15th Toughman match at Reed Arena. Kuhn had been in intensive care for almost a week when he died Friday morning. It was the first reported death in Texas from a Toughman fight, although deaths have occurred in other states as a result of the contests.”
Later on in the article it says;
“ At least eight deaths have been linked to Toughman contests since they began in 1979. Art Liggins, a 44 year old fighter who made a bid for the US Olympic boxing team in the 70's, died last Saturday, the same night Kuhn was injured as a result of head injuries suffered during a match. The ringside doctor, who was the first to attend Kuhn after the fight, said blood vessels that connected Kuhn’s brain and skull had been severed during the fight.”
It goes on to say, later in the article;
“But since the contests began, there have been deaths in Pennsylvania, Kansas, Alabama, Louisiana, and two in Michigan. In addition to two deaths within the last week. Toughman contests are banned in at least four states, including Pennsylvania and Missouri.”
Later in the same article it says;
“Toughman matches are scheduled for three one-minute rounds, a move that Dore–
that’s one of the promoters–
“–made during the early 1980's to protect fighters who didn’t always come to the arena in the best physical shape. But the number of matches Toughman participants can compete in can take even a bigger toll on the body. USA Boxing allows fighters a maximum of one match per day. In Toughman competitions, fighters can have up to five matches in a two-day period. Conklin said a blow to the head suffered several weeks before a match can put a fighter in danger of severe injury. A blow suffered earlier in the evening becomes even more magnified.”
And that’s the end of that article. To follow up on that, from the lady that I talked to with the US Olympic team, she talked about something called, if I can get the terminology right. Secondary, let’s see, what is it called? I referenced it in my letter, but there’s a clinical name for this secondary injury. In essence, it’s where you receive an injury and then, which maybe doesn’t appear to give you any problems, but later on it....thank you. Later on you receive another blow, and that can be serious, providing serious injuries, or even death, and you didn’t even know you were in a susceptible condition. So, death may result even weeks later from a secondary injury. I want to make this all a part of the record. So, I’ve got just a couple more, if you can bear with me. A couple more items to put into the record here. One is, another one is a letter from the Indiana Professional Licensing Agency, the State Boxing Commission, which is, apparently, chaired by a Mr. William Kelsey. Mr. Jacob Hall, and Edward Treacy are also members. It’s a letter to Steve Carter that was shared with me. It’s dated September 30, 2002, and, again, I’m going to just read excerpts from it. It says, this is from the State Boxing Commission to the Attorney General. It’ says;
“The State Boxing Commission held a meeting on September 30, 2002, and discussed concerns regarding “toughman contests”. It was brought to the attention of the Attorney General’s office, as well as others present at the meeting that two toughman fights held last weekend one in Boise, Idaho, and one in College Station, Texas both resulted in death. The result of these fights and previous opposition stated by the Commission, determined the significance of notifying the Attorney General’s office that the State Boxing Commission is “opposed” to such fights, and wants it officially on record as of September 30, 2002. The Boxing Commission is in “full support” of the Attorney General’s office taking appropriate legislative action as soon as possible. It was also noted that the State Boxing Commission has the authority over these fights when they are issued a “prize or purse” and supports the Attorney General’s office in “shutting them down”.”
What we are faced with here, they have no jurisdiction. They acknowledge that, because there is no prize. What you get is a trophy or a jacket, something like that. You don’t get a monetary prize. So, the State Boxing Commission cannot, right now, shut them down, but they are asking the Attorney General to help put forth legislation to ban those in the state, in the future. I have a letter here from, a copy of the letter. It’s from Steve Carter, the State Attorney General, to Robert Garton, President Pro Tempore of the State Senate. It says;
“I am writing to bring to your attention concerns that the Boxing Commission has expressed in correspondence to me regarding “Toughman contests”, and the danger that they present to the public. I have enclosed a copy of their letter. “Toughman” contests usually consist of a promoter who chooses local amateur participants to appear in a ring or cage to fight. The fights do not involve a prize other than a trophy or an article of clothing. The contests are becoming increasingly prevalent, and as the Boxing Commission notes in it’s correspondence to me, two people have recently been killed in these fights. With the permission of the Boxing Commission, I have enclosed a copy of a recent advisory letter from my office on the subject of the Commission’s jurisdiction over these contests. Under current law, the Commission does not have the authority to regulate these contests, because IC-25-9-1-5 exempts certain amateur fights from it’s jurisdiction. The Commission supports a ban on these contests. I bring this to your attention to highlight the concerns of the Boxing Commission so that you may consider addressing the issue in the next legislative session. I would support an effort to regulate or ban these contests in Indiana.”
That’s from Steve Carter, the Attorney General, to Robert Garton. Lastly, to bring this all to a close, or, at least, on my part, here’s a copy of an article, I do not have the paper that it was published in, but it’s an Associated Press article dated 4/4/2001. It says Boca Raton, Florida.
“A jury has ordered the owners of defunct night club to pay $10.5 million to the family of a man who was left a quadriplegic after a bar-promoted fight. Club Boca had argued that Carlos E. Silva signed a waiver before stepping into the boxing ring on November 4, 1997. Silva’s parents said their son was seriously injured the first minute into the match when he hit his head against a wooden stage. The fight wasn’t stopped until he became unconscious in the third round. A blood clot in Silva’s brain prompted emergency surgery that left him unable to speak, communicate or move. A Palm Beach County jury determined Tuesday that Silva, 22, should bear 15% of the blame for his injuries, and the club should pay $10.5 million. The parent company of Club Boca was dissolved, and it’s former owners, Simon and Barbara Mandell, filed for bankruptcy a week before trial. Club Boca previously agreed to pay $16,750 to a woman who was knocked unconscious during the same promotion. The club continued the event until 1998, and closed a year later.”
So, that’s a, I know you don’t enjoy being read to, but I thought that was the easiest way to bring all the facts that I had found to your attention. I want to emphasize that neither SMG nor myself are, in any way, condemning properly sanctioned amateur boxing. Such as would be sanctioned by the USA Boxing Association, Olympic Committee, or something like that. Or professional boxing, which is a highly, as explained to me, and I don’t want to take your time as the Commissioner did for the Boxing Association, but all the regulations that are involved in professional boxing, not the least of which is making sure that the competitors are aware of what they are getting into, of matching similarly skilled boxers, and many, many, many different weight classes of boxers, so that the boxers are somewhat evenly matched. All the training that’s involved, and regulations involved in both USA Boxing and professional boxing. So, we’re in no way here condemning that. This is an entirely different animal. These are people who have not been trained. They are not looking for training. As a matter of fact, the lady from the Olympic Committee said that if their members fight in these Toughman contests, they are banned from the organization. They are specifically prohibited from participating in these type of contests. Also professional fighters cannot participate in these type of competitions. It’s totally different than the properly sanctioned USA Boxing type match, and the professional boxing match. To give you, after gathering all this information, I was on the phone with Sandie Aaron of SMG Evansville yesterday, and we discussed this, and I was continuing to gather information, the last of which I received this morning. So, in case you were wondering why such last minute? Why do we need to do this right now? The event, I believe, they are going to start signing people up tonight. The event is tomorrow and Saturday. It is my recommendation to you to cancel this event. Number one, the event, in my opinion, our contract requires them to have insurance, liability insurance, covering not only the audience, which they say they have, but also the participants. They do not have that. I think they admitted that to Sandie that their current insurance does not cover the participants. We require a million dollars worth of coverage, plus a million dollars per occurrence. I talked to Dennis Feldhaus, our own insurance carrier, asked him do we have coverage to cover the county in case we are sued. He said, we do not. He continued by saying even if you wanted to buy it, it’s just not being written. It’s not being available. The insurance company’s underwriters will not write this kind of insurance. I must assume from that, that it’s because of the inherent dangers at risk involved in this type of activity. That’s number one, I do not feel they are in compliance of contract. Number two, as you all know, you spend most of your time, most of your efforts, and most of the money promoting the health, safety, and welfare of the citizens of Vanderburgh County. This, I think, is very much contrary to that effort. This is an activity which may result in serious injury or death. I read you the articles where it’s happened around the country. Regardless of what the contract said, I do not think this is an event that we would want to be, in any way, involved with by providing a facility for them to have the event in. It’s my recommendation, I think Sandie’s too, that we...she can speak for herself, but it’s my recommendation that you vote to cancel this event. I might add to it that if the Commission desires I will put together an ordinance prohibiting these types. Again, I emphasize, I do not want to prohibit professional boxing, or properly sanctioned amateur boxing, which is a highly regulated sport. From some of the other articles I’ve seen, if it is highly regulated, greatly controlled, it is a safe sport. This event is something entirely different, and I will put that together for your future consideration. So, if somebody comes (Inaudible), I can say that is in violation of local ordinance. I don’t know what the State of Indiana will do, but they’ve been asked to take the issue up and ban it in the future, and that may happen also. But, we’re asking you to give, to cancel this event with the, let me get the actual name of the tenant. It is, there are too many papers here. Is it the American Boxing Athletic Association? Is that their name? Cancel their lease for this Friday and Saturday.
President Mosby: Sandie, did you want to add anything? Is there anything that you can add?
Sandie Aaron: What can I say?
President Mosby: Okay.
Sandie Aaron: No, I’m satisfied. I did speak with this promoter’s attorney, at great length, and he indicated he really wanted to make it work. I told him what it would take, and he, out of is mouth, said that he didn’t think he could get insurance written to cover the participants. So, I’m comfortable with the fact that it’s not possible to come to some sort of concession with them, so.
President Mosby: Okay. Thank you very much.
Kevin Winternheimer: As a, one final thing. I do have a letter, and I’ll give that to Madelyn to make part of the record. I’ve got a letter, today’s date, addressed to Sandie Aaron of SMG Evansville outlining my concerns, much more briefly than I did here, but it’s a single page letter to her with my recommendation that the event be cancelled.
President Mosby: Okay. David, did you want to say anything on behalf of the Building Authority? Or are you here–
Dave Rector: No, other than I became aware of this just yesterday. I appreciate Kevin’s efforts in it. I was just wondering if there is a way, in the future perhaps, that we can make sure the insurance is in place prior to the day before the event happens. That we have to cancel events.
Kevin Winternheimer: This is, this is, this is a unique situation. Sandie may be able to explain it better than I, but, you know, if you have a concert coming in, you have the concert, their employees, and they have their own insurance covering that. This is a unique situation in that the promoter is luring people, literally off the street, to come in and participate in an activity which they know nothing about. Or very little about. That is altogether different than any other type of event that I can think of that you have out there. No matter what it is.
Sandie Aaron: This is the third year it’s been in here. All of our tenants, in all of our buildings, city and county, we have insurance requirements. On the surface, the insurance requirements were met. They gave us not even a million dollar certificate of insurance, with proper additional insurance there’s two million dollars. However, the kicker is when we picked it apart, when Kevin got some of this information and started asking questions, we found that....event insurance is supposed to be event insurance. It’s supposed to cover liability for everything related to that event, from patrons to the back stage. When they said, no, their not covered, then now we’re talking about a whole different thing.
Kevin Winternheimer: I might make one small correction. It appeared, the certificate appeared to provide the coverage, but when we asked the specific question about does it cover the participants, the answer was, no, it did not, so.
Commissioner Fanello: Well, does that mean that there’s possible other events that that could happen?
Kevin Winternheimer: Well, we’ll, like I said, we’ll be on guard. I had looked at the form that’s been used, I guess, for quite a few years at the Centre, and I had planned on maybe tweaking it a little bit. It’s a good agreement, but maybe the term would be, maybe, clarifying a couple of points. One, I will clarify the insurance to say that it’s event insurance, so they understand that.
Sandie Aaron: Usually, the only time that’s really even a question is with a family show, because you’ve got entourages of 80-90-100 people in the backstage area that you’re using. We usually amend the contract, and they even include their own amendment that outlines the coverage for their employees. So, usually we’re pretty covered for that.
President Mosby: Any other questions or comments by anybody? Seeing none. I guess, the chair would entertain a motion to the effect that we cancel the American Boxing, what was the true and correct–
Kevin Winternheimer: American Athletic Association.
President Mosby: –American Athletic Boxing Association event for tomorrow night at the Centre, also named the Toughman contest.
Commissioner Fanello: I’ll make a motion that we do so, based on the recommendation of County Attorney, Kevin Winternheimer, and due to the liability concerns that we cancel immediately the event Friday and Saturday night known as the Toughman event.
President Mosby: I will second that motion, only being two of us here, and say so ordered at the same time. Is there any other business? Well, this is all that was advertised for, so.
Commissioner Fanello: I want to clarify something for the record, just in case. I don’t know is there a difference between a special...this is actually an emergency meeting. I didn’t know for the record–
Kevin Winternheimer: It’s both. A special and an emergency meeting. It’s special in that it’s not a regularly scheduled, but it’s an emergency in that, because the event was, I think they were going to start signing people up tonight, and they were going to be setting up today, and it would be going on tomorrow, we did not have 48 hours to give notice–
Commissioner Fanello: That’s why I wanted to clarify.
Kevin Winternheimer: So, it’s a special and emergency meeting. It classifies as an emergency meeting because, in my belief, there was a possibility of someone getting injured, or hurt. That is one of the criteria for having an emergency meeting. In order to prevent that from happening.
Commissioner Fanello: I just wanted to clarify that for the record. I’ll make a motion to adjourn.
President Mosby: With that being clarified, the motion to adjourn, we will adjourn this special emergency meeting.
The meeting was adjourned at 4:55 p.m.
Those in Attendance:
David W. Mosby Catherine Fanello Kevin Winternheimer
Todd Hochstetler Madelyn Grayson Sandie Aaron
Dave Rector Others Unidentified Members of Media
VANDERBURGH COUNTY
BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
David W. Mosby, President
Catherine Fanello, Vice President
Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.