President Jerrel: I'd like to call the Commission meeting to order please. The first item on the agenda, I would like to introduce the people before you. To my right is Tony Greubel, our Superintendent of County Buildings; Joe Harrison, Jr., next to him, is our County Attorney; Pat Tuley, County Commissioner, to my right; far left, Charlene Timmons is our Recording Secretary; Suzanne Crouch, County Auditor; Richard Mourdock, County Commissioner; and my name is Bettye Lou Jerrel. I would like to ask you to join me now in the Pledge of Allegiance.
 

President Jerrel: The agenda looks long, but I've made a decision, I don't think it looks complicated, so we ought to be through in about 35 or 40 minutes. The first item on the agenda would be the approval of the minutes of the previous meeting.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the minutes of February 8, 1999. 

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.
 

President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is the approval of the certification of the Executive Session. We met from 4:45 until 5:30 and discussed personnel matters and litigation. 

Commissioner Mourdock: I will move that we accept the summary minutes of those matters.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.
 

President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is approval of agreement for professional services and submit a semiannual performance report for flood mitigation and that is in your packet and I don't believe there is anyone here for that. Is there?

Commissioner Tuley: Yeah, Joe is here.

President Jerrel: I'm sorry, I didn't see you.

Joe Coleman: I'm sorry, I was hiding behind the podium. Yeah, the semiannual report is for the period from June 30th...or July 1 through December 31. We expect that during the next reporting period the entire program will be wrapped up. As mentioned in the report one of the last activities of the program will be a Fair Housing Week in June, part of our plan and with the cooperation of the Human Relations Commission to affirmably further fair housing which is a grant requirement. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Just for the record we need to have you state your name.

Joe Coleman: Oh, my name is Joe Coleman, Metropolitan Development.

President Jerrel: Are there any questions? 

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the agreement for professional services with Specialty Systems of Indiana. 

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered. Thank you.
 

President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is Mr. Dyer. He has a request. 

John Dyer: I sent the Commissioners an e-mail this morning. Did everybody get it?

President Jerrel: We have all the information.

John Dyer: Did you get this?

President Jerrel: Yes.

John Dyer: Okay.

Commissioner Mourdock: If I may go backwards just a second to clarify, we had two things with that prior issue. One is the actual agreement for professional services with Specialty Systems and then we also had the thing directly from Joe. As a separate document, do we need a separate motion on that, Joe?

President Jerrel: Motion to approve?

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yes, why don't you do that, I'm sorry.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, just to be efficient there I would also move that we approve the semiannual performance report with the Indiana Housing Finance Authority. Approve that for signature as filed in our packet tonight.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.

Commissioner Mourdock: Sorry, Joe. Okay. 

President Jerrel: Let's perhaps...have each of you had a chance to review the materials? We had our attorney review the legal standing of the issue and do you have a comment to make? 

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Not at this time. If Mr. Dyer wants to proceed, I know the Commissioners have reviewed your request. You might just want to indicate to them what your proposal is and as far as what you're proposing there is a statute that was recently passed that obligates the Commissioners to consider your request as far as the rebuilding of the structure that is currently located at the present address. If the Commissioners are...gives them the authority to either grant or deny the request that you're making here this evening, so if you want to proceed ahead and if there is any other comment Mr. Lehman may want to respond. I think the Commissioners have had a lot of documentation to at least consider it and they've received an opinion from me. 

John Dyer: I apologize for showering you with information as you imagine. By the way, my name is John Dyer. I'm petitioning the Commissioners this evening to allow me to demolish a home that I own at 5148 Old Henderson Road in Union Township, Vanderburgh County. The premise for this is Indiana Statute which you are all familiar with. I may also cite as premise the policy of the Federal Emergency Management Agency which has published policy which specifically endorses this type of activity. I have documentation for that statement, too, if the Commission would like to see it. I would suggest that the project that I am proposing satisfies conditions set forth in the state and federal regulations, that it is consistent with stated public policy regarding flood hazard area management objectives and practices, that it will improve the county's FEMA audit by reducing the inventory of non compliant structures in the flood hazard area. That it lies upon a site characterized as minimal flood risk in terms of hydraulic force frequency and duration of flood effects. That this project will be carried out without public expenditure or subsidy. That it will increase property value and tax assessment and that in addition, I'm finding it a little difficult perhaps to get unanimous consent on this issue, but I think this project may serve community planners as a model for responsible floodplain development particularly in view of the initiative of the State of Indiana in passing this law they clearly intended that this sort of project should take place. I find in the some 30 or so FEMA documents that I have reviewed on the issue that FEMA is additionally in very much in favor of this kind of project. I would assure the Commission that I will strive to make this a very excellent model for this type of proposal and will cooperate in every way.

Commissioner Mourdock: The only question I would have, Mr. Dyer, and Joe I would ask for a little legal guidance here, I want to be sure that the county is not looking at any liability down the road. We did, just for your information, Mr. Dyer, have a situation come up at one time where a building was built outside the county codes. It was an area where a building was for a lot of reasons not designated to be built there at certain elevations. People went ahead and built it anyway and then a building permit was issued. The building was built and people came back sued the county. The one thing I would look for in this situation would be that perhaps the summary minutes of this discussion from tonight's Board meeting be recorded somehow in the Recorder's Office perhaps to cross reference the deed for Mr. Dyer's property so that it is clear of what the intent is by the Board waiving the one requirement and also making it obvious to whoever would subsequently own the property that these things were put in place and that they buy that property on that condition.

John Dyer: I would certainly be willing to make a covenant with the county to indemnify and hold harmless the county for any matters arising out of this issue.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: That's exactly what we're looking for.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, and would that then be part of the chain of title that whoever buys it is assuming that same hold harmless clause? 

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yes, I mean it runs with the property.

John Dyer: Right. 

Joe Harrison, Jr.: So, sure.

John Dyer: It is certainly not a problem.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, with the provision that that document be drafted and executed by Mr. Dyer and the other owners of the property--

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Oh, sure, they obviously want to speak.

John Dyer: Certainly.

President Jerrel: Yeah.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: But as far as what Mr. Mourdock is referring to if this Board makes a decision one way or another and it is favorable to you I would like to, if you would, get a document to me, a covenant to that effect and let me look at it. If it needs to be revised in some fashion we can do that, but if, in fact, this Board goes that route that's what we'll need.

John Dyer: Gladly.

President Jerrel: Essentially the issue is the current facility is not as high as it should be.

John Dyer: That's correct.

President Jerrel: And you're going to raise the first floor four and a half feet so it meets the standards that are recommended.

John Dyer: Exactly.

Commissioner Mourdock: And include certain engineering things to withstand hydrostatic pressure and building code items.

President Jerrel: Right, and that is the issue, really. If you didn't do it and you lived there nothing would change.

John Dyer: Exactly, except that the county's FEMA audit would, of course, reflect that it still had a non compliant structure in its inventory. Of course, the federal government would be still exposed to the potential that I would make a claim under the National Flood Insurance Program.

President Jerrel: Well, let's...you want to let some of our...okay.

Roger Lehman: Hi, my name is Roger Lehman, Building Commissioner. We received Mr. Dyer's request and forwarded the information to the Commissioners and also to the Floodplain Management Committee for the city and county. That committee received information last Tuesday and also this morning. That committee took a vote and on a two in favor of approval...I'm sorry, two opposed approval and three in favor of approval it came up with a no action vote on that. The city and the county from our agency's standpoint we have been pushing and working hard to eliminate flood hazard conditions particularly in the floodway and that is what is unique to this location is that it is not in a floodplain, it's in a floodway of the Ohio River. The state in its desire, I guess, to do something after the flood of `97 did institute this law that said a building could be rebuilt if it met all the current requirements. We have just got a report from Mr. Coleman on spending $127,000 on purchasing property in this area and razing it. We will have another $600,000 grant that we have received and have not put into effect yet, but we will in the next few months, for purchase and removal. Our position is that the only way to assure that there is not damage in the floodway is to eliminate the hazard which would be to, obviously, remove the building. Mr. Dyer has a very nice presentation and we have no reason to believe he won't do what is required if this is approved, but as a point of what the city and county are trying to do as far as reducing and eliminating flood hazards we are not in favor of construction in the floodway at all. 

Barbara Cunningham: I don't know if I can...Mr. Dyer probably can give my presentation, he has heard it a couple of times. But I don't know if, you know, my problems as we said in the last two meetings are number one...and I desperately hope that Mr. Dyer could prove it was a lot of record and he could not, so I don't have a subdivision lot. What you have is a parcel that was probably what...23 acres in size? It was purchased in `94 by someone. It was in a family trust. It was leased ground and you had river camps that were placed on that and over the years have become some of them permanent residences all without benefit of permits and I think you mention, too, that the house that you purchased, not when he had it, was a FEMA loss in `97. The loss was not...the money was given for the loss, but the loss was not replaced. Now that is not Mr. Dyer, but this is the kind of things that we're working with. So I have a problem in that I don't have a subdivision lot and I have, you know, the houses that are faced on that and I don't know how I can, you know, give a permit unless I have...like any...if this were any place else I would either insist that it be lot of record or they plat a residential lot. To plat a residential lot on a septic takes two and a half acres. The lot is not...what is it? About a fourth of an acre?

John Dyer: It's 70 by 300.

Barbara Cunningham: Yeah. So, I mean, so that's problem number one. The second problem I had with it was the septic system. You know, Dwight is here so maybe he can say something about it. I find, you know, a septic that could be not usable for a period of time because the land does flood down there a couple times a year and I found that was a problem that the septic system did not work. I had a third problem, does anyone remember what my third one was? Mr. Dyer, you're not going to help me?

John Dyer: I'm not going to help you. Youre doing good.

Barbara Cunningham: Let me see, there was a third thing. It was the septic...you know, we're not talking floodplain where you can just elevate it. We're talking about floodway where there is moving water. This is right...just right, is it north of the Dogtown Boat Dock? Yeah, it's a floodway. Yeah, it's not a floodplain, it's a floodway. I think, you know, for some of these reasons it, you know, we dont have an approved road, it' not a subdivision, I'm worried about the septic. I'm worried about us...that was it...I was worried about us spending money in other parts of Union Township purchasing properties and, you know, the message that we're sending. On the other hand, Mr. Dyer has done very well. We offered to hire him this morning, the presentation he gave was so good. But he has done very well on that, but, you know, I can just see if he gets it then are we going to do this...is everybody going to be able to do that and it just does not meet what we're trying to do with Project Impact, but there is the window of opportunity for the Commissioners to make a decision.

President Jerrel: Well, wait just a minute before you walk away.

Barbara Cunningham: Okay.

President Jerrel: I listened to Mr. Dyer and I thought he made an excellent presentation.

Barbara Cunningham: Uh-huh.

President Jerrel: But just to help everybody out this is by the...in the vicinity of Dogtown Tavern, across the street, next to the boat launch?

Barbara Cunningham: Okay, you go...it's a little bit away from Dogtown Tavern. Its not on--

President Jerrel: No, but' on Old Henderson, but it is in that general vicinity.

Barbara Cunningham: Yeah, if you were landing at the Dogtown Boat Dock, if you went a little bit to the north which is away from the Dogtown Tavern.

Commissioner Mourdock: Upstream.

Barbara Cunningham: That you would be...this would be the first house.

President Jerrel: Right.

Barbara Cunningham: It's 862 feet and we're talking about replacing it with what, 3,000 or 4,000 square feet?

John Dyer: A 3,000 square foot house.

Barbara Cunningham: And, you know, that's a lot more as Dwight said this morning he needs some information because from the Health Department that is a lot more going in the septic system.

President Jerrel: Let me ask you the rest of the question.

Barbara Cunningham: Okay.

President Jerrel: So if you got on that Old Henderson Road and I ride my bike from that point down to the gravel it's about 12 2 miles down and 12 2 back. It's 25 miles.

Barbara Cunningham: If you say so, Mrs. Jerrel.

President Jerrel: And the homes that we are buying were almost at the end where the gravel is on Old Henderson Road, is that not correct?

Barbara Cunningham: I'm not sure about that. Are they farther than--

Roger Lehman: Well, the big group of homes are close to the old lock and dam. We've bought spot homes--

President Jerrel: On down.

Roger Lehman: --on down and we bought one on Bayou Creek.

President Jerrel: Yeah, well I was trying to get all that clear in my mind. Now, those homes flood more often? Does this home flood the same as all those homes? 

Barbara Cunningham: Probably this one floods a couple times--

Roger Lehman: The frequency would be the same.

Barbara Cunningham: The frequency would be about the same and the road floods, too. 

President Jerrel: Uh-huh.

Roger Lehman: Once or twice a year.

John Dyer: Well, actually (inaudible). We're on much higher ground than they are. 

(Inaudible comments from audience.)

Roger Lehman: Oh, yeah, the old lock and dam. Were talking about Dogtown.

Barbara Cunningham: Uh-huh, the Dogtown area.

John Dyer: It's a long way.

President Jerrel: Well, the elevation is different?

John Dyer: Yes.

Roger Lehman: Yes.

Commissioner Tuley: And you're raising the elevation?

John Dyer: Well, our land to start with is a lot higher than that land out there.

Commissioner Tuley: But I mean the structure itself is being raised as well?

John Dyer: Yeah, the structure will be raised.

President Jerrel: But the starting point is different.

Roger Lehman: The starting point is higher there than as you go on down the road.

President Jerrel: Yeah, that was my question. It seems that way when you're working your way down that way. It seemed as if it were higher, so that's another issue that plays into this situation. 

Roger Lehman: Right.

President Jerrel: Okay, I just wanted to make sure that I was correct on that.

Barbara Cunningham: Well, and I don't know, we've talked about this. I don't know if we've done a CRS application to lower the flood insurance, you know we've been working on that.

President Jerrel: Uh-huh.

Barbara Cunningham: And I don't know if that plays a part in this type of thing or not.

Roger Lehman: I don't think it will directly if the end result (inaudible, not at microphone).

President Jerrel: We've gotten a lot of communication about lower flood insurance recently so you might want to know about that, too. 

John Dyer: If I may, everything that I've read--

President Jerrel: You want to come back up.

John Dyer: Oh, sure. Everything that I've read says to me that the county will benefit with a lower flood insurance rate. Probably not very much, I'm just one house, but according to FEMA their standards for the audit is number of non compliant structures in the county and when I do this there will be one less non compliant structure in the county. I haven't talked to anybody in FEMA, but it seems like an inescapable conclusion based on what I've read and I have read a lot of FEMA information. That seemed to be the real sticking point here. If I may in rebuttal, please, address a couple of the other issues. There has been a lot of concern about my septic tank. It works fine. We have very sandy soil there. We're not going to have more residents there than that septic tank has handled...I know absolutely for sure that the house has been full-time residence with two people for the last 13 years including my wife and myself from May through November. We live with that thing every day. We've never had a problem with flow. Never saw any above ground discharge. We know it has got a septic tank. We know it's got a field bed...well, we were told, but you can't see it. It's underground and unless it does something bad like make a smell you'll never know that there is anything...that it is even there. We haven't experienced that and, in fact, if we did I would be real concerned about it because I'm about to build an expensive house on it and I don't want to do that on top of a smelly cesspool. The issue of the river coming up, duration and frequency is very low. We are on pretty darn high ground. It has to hit 40 feet before it comes over our ground. I have a chart somewhere that shows...actually for several years it, you know, for last year it did not flood, this year it has not flooded us and probably won't flood, so we're not talking about a situation where a piece of property is under water all the time or even a lot. If it was under water a lot none of us would want to live there. It's just a minor inconvenience. If the county would like I would be more than happy to undertake some kind of remedy like I could put a 60 gallon marine waste storage tank in my shop area which is going to be on the second floor and when the river comes up over 36 feet flip a valve and we've got about 35 days that we could go into the storage tank until the water goes down, but the water almost never stays up more than four or five days at a time. Even in the current situation I can't imagine the septic tank being working or not working being an issue because the septic tank consists of a sediment tank, the tank itself, and the field bed. Well, the sediment tank traps the solids. The field bed percolates off...what comes out of the septic tank is gray water which then percolates off in the field bed. That's how those darn things work. Well, if my ground comes under water all that happens...first of all, the digestion process is anaerobic. It occurs in the absence of oxygen, so if the water comes up and fills my system it might be a little bit less efficient but because it is going out into a field bed there is not very much chance of any organic solid biomatter making its way into the river and even if that were possible every time we get a three inch rain in Evansville the city Sewer Department dumps millions of gallons of raw sewage right into the river. My neighbors and I would have to flush our toilets 4,000,000 times in a period of about three days to even come close to that. I'm not--

Commissioner Mourdock: Let me change the course here for a minute.

John Dyer: Yeah.

Commissioner Mourdock: Joe, could you give us a little background again by statute as far as what Barbara referred as this window of opportunity? Can you tell us what the statute says, how we're to look at this?

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Essentially this legislation that enables Mr. Dyer to reconstruct his home where it is without the restrictions that are normally there was passed on May 13th of 1997. That particular statute reads, I'll just tell you as follows:

John Dyer: But I was sure glad to see it.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: --it directly impacts him, you know, right on the nose. If he wants to this without all the restrictions that are there otherwise which may be prohibitive for him to even do this he would have to make this request and get approval from the County Commissioners before December 31, 2000. If he tried to do it on January 1, 2001 it wouldn't work.

Commissioner Mourdock: Unless they renew it.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Unless they renew it.

John Dyer: Would you agree, Mr. Harrison, that this is a very broad and powerful law? 

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Oh, yes. It's...I think Mr. Lehman would, too. It essentially is saying there is a hiatus on all the other regs and statutes, federal regs, with respect to what he wants to do on this property. So that's going to change, I'm sure.

John Dyer: Sure, next year.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: January 1, 2001, but at least for right now it is discretionary whether or not in the county the Commissioners want to permit Mr. Dyer and his wife to proceed in this fashion. 

John Dyer: My short pitch is I'm going to do a good thing and be good for the county and I hope you'll let me do it.

President Jerrel: Any questions? 

Commissioner Tuley: I met with him just like you guys did. He has contacted, I think, everybody.

President Jerrel: Including DNR.

John Dyer: Yes, ma'am.

Commissioner Mourdock: Just again so I better understand, what appeal process, Joe, under this statute is there?

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Appeal?

Commissioner Mourdock: Yeah, is there any?

Joe Harrison, Jr.: No. I mean, if this Board denied what he wanted to do, I don't know, I'm not to sure there is much he could do. If someone else out in the public didn't like what we did I don't think there is anything they could do either. It's simply a...there doesn't appear to be any appeal process in this piece of legislation that was adopted unless Roger reads it differently I think it's discretionary by this Board. If they want to do it, if someone is upset about it, they're going to be upset. They could come back. There is not restriction if it was turned down he couldn't come back the next day and try again, but he has got until 2000...the end of 2000 to keep coming back. 

John Dyer: It's not me, I swear. 

Commissioner Mourdock: The Governor is on the phone!

President Jerrel: I'm open for a motion, comments.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'm always somewhat torn on the issue when it comes up to something between the property rights type of issues and the overall zoning and planning types of issues. I think there is definitely an element of risk here that may be greater than what Mr. and Mrs. Dyer recognize, but you look like adults to me, too, so I think much of it is your risk. My concern for the county's point of view goes back to what I said before that I certainly would want everything clarified with a hold harmless type agreement to protect this Board, but if the present owners of the property are agreeable to that type of instrument as prepared by Mr. Harrison, then I would move that we give approval to this request.

Commissioner Tuley: It's, like you say, you get in the property right...individual property rights I have a hard time sometimes with trying to control or whatever, but I think somewhere along the line the legislature must have thought this wasn't all that bad of an idea. You said it, he is an adult, she is an adult. I think you may be right, there may be a little bit more risk here than they're willing to admit or recognize, but having said that I'll second your motion.

President Jerrel: I'm going to ask for a voice vote, but just a comment, this will essentially be an improvement over what is currently there. I see Roger nodding his head, so I'll call for a voice vote. 

Commissioner Tuley: Yes.

Commissioner Mourdock: Is he nodding his head in the affirmative?

President Jerrel: Yes. Yes, he is. Alright, Commissioner Tuley?

Commissioner Tuley: Yes.

President Jerrel: Commissioner Mourdock?

Commissioner Mourdock: Yes.

President Jerrel: I'll vote yes.

John Dyer: Thank you.

Barbara Cunningham: May I ask a question for clarification?

President Jerrel: Yes.

Barbara Cunningham: Would the Commissioners then order this to be a lot using his dimensions so I may issue the permit? I don't know how I can take it through the subdivision process? It doesn't need anything like that. I mean, I'm not asking you to do anything--

President Jerrel: Tonight.

Barbara Cunningham: Well, he wants to do it.

Commissioner Tuley: Yeah, he is ready.

Barbara Cunningham: What I would like to have you tell me is that this is to be considered a lot ordered by the County Commissioners with his meets and bounds description that you have, you've got that for me, so that I can do that.

President Jerrel: Okay.

Commissioner Mourdock: Let me just clarify one thing with that. You are fairly recently...you're fairly...you've acquired this property fairly recently correct?

John Dyer: In `98.

Commissioner Mourdock: Was there a field survey done at the time?

John Dyer: Yes, two.

Commissioner Mourdock: Down along the river sometimes two is not enough! Okay, with that then, Barbara, in determining that this is a lot does that cause any complications for the Dyers going back to the septic situation we discussed earlier? If we suddenly say, now this is a lot is somebody else from the Health Department going to come in a say, ah-hah, now that it's a lot you can't do it because it's not two and a half acres? 

Barbara Cunningham: Are you going to do that Dwight? 

Dwayne Caldwell: Dwayne Caldwell, Health Department.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'm sorry I couldn't hear you.

Barbara Cunningham: Dwayne with the Health Department. No, I don't think it will. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Well, I just want to make sure that we're not setting a bear trap here. 

Barbara Cunningham: I think we're going to have the same problem with the septic system. It's this size only. It's not going to be any bigger or less. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, well let's just get it on the record.

President Jerrel: And no additional people.

Dwayne Caldwell: Yeah, I'm Dwayne Caldwell with the Health Department. Don't tell my boss, Sam, I was here. I was just observing. Basically, as far as the septic system goes we don't have any record of what is there. We have no idea what size tank, how much field bed or anything like that. I was told by Sam that if you decided to go ahead and let him build that we could say on the letter that we have no objection if you're going to let him, but that's as far as we would go. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay.

President Jerrel: Alright, thank you.

Commissioner Mourdock: Thank you, Mr. Caldwell.

Dwayne Caldwell: Remember, I wasn't here. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, coming back to Barbara's comment then as far as what this Board needs to do to designate that as a lot I'm still not sure what we quite need to do. 

Commissioner Tuley: I think we declare it a lot based on the meets and bounds. 

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yeah, I think the bottom line is that she is going to be ordered to--

Barbara Cunningham: Declare the permission granted for the replacement.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yes.

Barbara Cunningham: You don't necessarily have to...lot maybe is the wrong name.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Right.

Barbara Cunningham: Let's do permission granted for the meets and bound description as shown...as given tonight.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: And ordering you to permit--

Barbara Cunningham: Yeah.

Commissioner Mourdock: To accept the meets and bounds?

Barbara Cunningham: That makes sense. Don't call it a lot because we can't get it--

Commissioner Tuley: I'll second her motion.

Commissioner Mourdock: You've got to restate it though. Let me take a shot. What we're doing is we're saying that we're authorizing Area Plan Commission to move forward based on the meets and bounds descriptions provided by the Dyers for the property in question.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: And to grant the proper permit.

Commissioner Mourdock: And to grant the permit for that property.

Commissioner Tuley: Nicely done.

Barbara Cunningham: If it meets code requirements. 

Commissioner Tuley: Okay, I'll second.

President Jerrel: I'll say so ordered, but the covenant part was included in the first motion?

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yes.

Commissioner Mourdock: Yes, in the first part. 

President Jerrel: Okay.

Commissioner Mourdock: You'll need to work with Joe Harrison to get that document. 

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Okay. 
 

President Jerrel: Alright. Okay, moving on. In your packet you do have Severe Weather Awareness Week and that will be March 7th through the 13th and this is something that is...I hope that we can do some more participation within the Civic Center. The schools all will be observing the special week and the day of the tornado will not be announced, the time, the day is but we won't give the time because that way the kids get a real test of whether or not they an meet the proper position that they're supposed to be in when they leave the building because, you know, we've had a number of tornadoes in this area. We may not have any this year and I hope we don't, but there isn't anyone here is there, Tony, for this? Okay, so do you want me to read it or you would like to read it into the minutes? 

Commissioner Mourdock: You need the whole thing? 

President Jerrel: Yes.

Commissioner Mourdock: Sure, I can read it. This is a motion to designate March 7th through the 13th, 1999 as Severe Weather Awareness Week: 

Commissioner Tuley: Yes, I'm sorry, second.

President Jerrel: Okay, so ordered.
 

President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is the McClure Memorial Baptist Church. Is there someone here to speak to this? You have before you a motion to withdraw order for tax deed. Tony, did you have a comment about that?

Tony Greubel: No, you were going along just right. They paid their taxes. It was after the deadline, but it finally was paid, so this is to withdraw the motion in order to take over their property.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, I'll move approval of the motion to withdraw the order for tax deed for the McClure Memorial Baptist Church property. 

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered. 
 

President Jerrel: The next one is Reginald Heck, permission to advertise and set hearing date for petition to vacate easement.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move that we advertise and set the hearing date for the petition to vacate an easement located at 1114 Indy Court with the suggested hearing date for March 8, 1999.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.
 

President Jerrel: We're now ready for the final hearing on the ordinance regarding speed limits on county roads. We have the information in our packets. One change was made last week and I'll call that to your attention. It was Schlensker Road, but is everything else the same? 

John Stoll: Right.

President Jerrel: So Schlensker Road will be set in at 30 miles an hour as approved last week.

Commissioner Mourdock: Right, and that is only for the section from Browning Road to Petersburg Road--

President Jerrel: Right.

Commissioner Mourdock: Which I guess now that I think of it is Schlensker Road.

Commissioner Tuley: I think it is, yeah.

President Jerrel: Yeah.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval on final reading of an ordinance amending Chapter 10.16 Section 010 for Vanderburgh County regarding the speed limits.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: And final reading I'll call for a voice vote. Commissioner Tuley?

Commissioner Tuley: Yes.

President Jerrel: Commissioner Mourdock?

Commissioner Mourdock: Yes.

President Jerrel: And I vote yes. The next item on the agenda is--

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Bettye Lou, with regard to that can you all approve permission to advertise? Since there was an amendment they'll have to advertise the publication of the final document.

President Jerrel: Oh, okay.

Commissioner Mourdock: So moved.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.
 

President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is the final reading for the ordinance amending weight restrictions on certain bridges. 

Commissioner Mourdock: I believe these are the same as we had last week. 

President Jerrel: Yeah.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of an ordinance amending Chapter 10.24 Section 060 of Vanderburgh County Code regarding weight restrictions on certain bridges as presented to us in our packet.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Need a roll call.

President Jerrel: I'll call for the roll call vote. Commissioner Tuley?

Commissioner Tuley: Yes.

President Jerrel: Commissioner Mourdock?

Commissioner Mourdock: Yes.

President Jerrel: And I vote yes. 
 

President Jerrel: The next is the final reading on the vacation of easement along a portion of Virginia Street for the Buente Trust. 

Commissioner Mourdock: I see movement in the back of the room.

Danny Leek: I'm Danny Leek with Morley and Associates representing the Buentes and would be happy to answer any questions you may have. 

Commissioner Tuley: This is where it was realigned and everything.

President Jerrel: Yeah, it is just straightening up the street. 

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval on final reading of the vacation of the easement for a section of Virginia Street that is been requested by the Petitioner, Buente Trust. 

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: I'll call for a voice vote on final reading. Commissioner Tuley?

Commissioner Tuley: Second...yes.

President Jerrel: Commissioner Mourdock?

Commissioner Mourdock: Yes.

President Jerrel: And I vote yes.
 

President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is the Greenway Passage Committee appointment. We did receive a request from the Pigeon Creek Greenway Passage that they would like to recommend to us that we appoint Catherine Hill to replace Dr. Charles Price who resigned from the committee. Is there a motion to approve?

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of Ms. Catherine Hill for that position and just for the record since we often state those people's names with addresses, I don't have the address, but it is the same Catherine Hill that is on the Weed and Seed Program of the Neighborhood Investment Council.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered. 
 

President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is the County Co-op second amendment to the lease. There are some minor points...do you have any comment, Joe, or is everybody comfortable with the--

Joe Harrison, Jr.: This document has been signed by the Kahres, the landlord for the property located at 13301 Darmstadt Road, which is the Purdue Co-op Extension Service. This is a modification to the lease that is in effect between the county and them for that property that the Co-op Extension Service leases. Essentially the original lease was, I believe, signed in July, July 1, 1996, and then there was an amendment to that September 9, 1996. This particular document would reduce the term from May 30, 2006 to January 31, 2003. It does provide for an option to renew the lease set forth in paragraph two for an additional 36 months should the county wish to renew the lease. If that is the case they would have to give at least 180 days notice to the Kahres of that intention. In addition, the rental under the lease will not be increasing as was previously provided. It is going to stay where it is now at $3,727 a month. Also, there is a provision that indicates if funding for the Purdue Co-op Extension Service program is cut by Purdue or the state by 50 percent or more the lease could be discontinued. So essentially, other than that there are a few other minor changes, but other than that the terms of the other lease will apply except for the highlighted provisions that I've read into the record.

President Jerrel: Are there any questions regarding this? 

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the second amendment to the lease between Vanderburgh County and Steven W. and Karen A. Kahre for a property known as 13301 Darmstadt Road.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.
 

President Jerrel: The next item on the agenda is the American Medical Response and you have in your packet the contract and, Mr. Harrison, were there any comments that you want to make?

Joe Harrison, Jr.: AMR is again proposing a one year agreement with the county which would begin at the first of this year. The contract price would be the same as it has been for the last several years, $197,000 would be the maximum contract price. The ambulance service contract relates to those areas outside the city of Evansville not including Darmstadt, not including Scott Township and not including Armstrong Township. It's essentially the same as the contract is currently in place between AMR and the county except for the following three changes. AMR is proposing to respond to life threatening emergencies in less than 12 minutes and they will respond to other calls in less than 15 minutes. There is a requirement that they do so, I believe it is 90 percent of the time, if not they are penalized and, obviously, that is a reduction in their contract price. Now all calls must be responded to in under 14 minutes, so essentially what is being proposed is that life threatening calls, again, under 12 minutes. Other calls under 15 minutes. Again, what is out there now in the current contract says all calls must come in...all responses must be under 14 minutes, so there is a possibility of an additional minute with regard to other calls, but life threatening calls is a reduction of two minutes. AMR will also...they're proposing to also post at least one ambulance within the county. Currently there is no requirement of a posting of an ambulance out in the county. They're proposing as an example of that location like at Lloyd and Red Bank Road. In addition, AMR has indicated that they will be Y2K compliant prior to the end of this year. I have had an opportunity to speak with Maury Nichols about this and I know he is for lack of a better term apparently the spokesman or one of the spokesman for the volunteer fireman that are served by this county contract. He indicated that although I think he would prefer to have probably all ambulances maybe of AMR maybe situated within the county I believe that the response time issue is of critical importance to the volunteer fireman. Any time that the response time is reduced certainly is an improvement and is the best for the citizens of this community. You want ambulances to get to a call as quickly as possible. Again, this contract is different from last year. Again, it is a one year contract and we'll have to see what happens after this year, but it is different from the current contract. It certainly appears to be an improvement over the current one as far as the citizens of this community are concerned. There may be some other people who may want to comment with regard to the proposed agreement. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Just to clarify something, it's a one year contract, but it is actually based on January 1st, so it is effectively 10 months from now?

Joe Harrison, Jr.: That's correct.

Commissioner Tuley: How long is the city's contract?

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Well, they had a five year agreement, but I think they signed the five year agreement two years ago.

Unidentified: `97.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Okay, so I think they've got three more years left with AMR.

President Jerrel: Is there anyone here that wishes to speak to this? 

John Buckman: Well, having just been briefed on this at 5:25 I don't have a whole lot to say except I would like to thank the Commissioners for reducing the response time to 12 minutes. That is very important. I guess we would urge you to go ahead and sign this contract understanding that it is better than last year, but we still need to improve it and so we need to work for the future as well. We've reduced the response time by two minutes, but we took the farthest part of the county out of the contract so what did we really reduce? We're giving them the same amount of money but we've reduced two townships that they are no longer responsible for which probably relates to about 12,000 to 13,000 people. You know, I understand we've got to have a contract and, Bettye Lou, we know you've worked on it and I assume the other Commissioners have worked on it. We appreciate that. Let's go forward and let's go ahead and get this done, but let's look to the future and say we've got some other things that we've got to do to help give better service. You know, what I look at as life threatening emergencies, we've got two brand new deputies sitting here tonight and it's okay for them to go out and get shot and have to wait 12 minutes for an ambulance and that is what we're saying worst case scenario or have a roof fall on a volunteer firefighter's head you've got to wait 12 minutes for that ambulance. I really don't think that is acceptable, but I understand we've got to have a contract and let's move forward. Thank you.

President Jerrel: Thank you. John, did you give your name?

John Buckman: John Buckman, Fire Chief, German Township Fire Department.

President Jerrel: Okay. Yes.

Mike Lockard: I have to agree...by the way, Mike Lockard with SRI Ambulance and I agree with John is that it is a good contract in the fact that it has reduced the response times. I want to say that I think it is great that you guys have moved forward with reducing the response time, but my parents live in Vanderburgh County, they live outside the city limits and it was not that long ago that my young son had an asthma attack and needed an ambulance. He would not have gotten an ambulance within 12 minutes. He would of had to wait 15 because he did not meet the requirements that are in the contract that you guys were looking at which is a Delta Response. I have to agree with John is that I think it is somewhat of a disservice to say 12 minutes for one, but 15 for the other for the example he used for the Sheriff Deputy that got shot. That might not have gotten a response within 12 minutes, it might have been a 15 minute response depending on how the call taker prioritized that call on the 911 dispatch center. I think that with the way that you guys divided out the 12 and 15 minute response I think that leads to the potential for extended responses for what most people would consider a life threatening emergency, chest pains, difficulty breathing, emergency allergic reactions, those would not necessarily require a 12 minute response. They may get a 15 minute response and I think that potentially is a disservice to the people who live in the county. The other thing I would say from looking at the contract is that there is no provision there for the on scene safety people that I work with in the volunteer fire departments. If they request an ambulance for other than an emergency there is nothing in there that says when AMR has to arrive. It could be 20 minutes, 30 minutes, it could be an hour. There is no provision in there for when they have to arrive for non emergency requests for on scene safety personnel such as John or these Sheriff Deputies and I would just ask that you guy consider that as something which would serve the safety personnel of Vanderburgh County. Other than that, I agree. It's a better thing for the people out there to reduce the responses. Thank you.

President Jerrel: Thank you.

Brad Ellsworth: One more?

President Jerrel: Okay.

Brad Ellsworth: I'm going to quit coming to these meetings! Speed on Schlensker Road. Brad Ellsworth, Sheriff. Just in hearing, not knowing anything was going on about this tonight, my only comment would be and I believe I asked John that the city response is eight minutes. My point on that would be that I see no difference of less importance on the residents out in the county than there is in the city and as Deputy Sheriff, I guess I'm not a Deputy anymore, 15 minutes is a very long time to sit there a wait and listen for the sirens and I would say that based on what we are paying are we getting a reduced rate due to the increase in minutes versus the eight minutes? If we're paying the same rate as the runs in the city then we should get eight minute response time too, to the residents of Vanderburgh County. 

Commissioner Mourdock: If I may jump on all those comments. First of all, Mike and John, I appreciate your comments. Brad you can quit coming to these meetings! No. All those are valid comments and especially Mr. Lockard's comments about some of the things we might look to in the next contract. One thing that we did set forth to do here is have a short term on this contract so that we can get a better set of terms and conditions, if you will, when this thing comes up next time. On that 12 minutes and 15 minutes having two separate standards I think that's a very good issue that we ought to look at when we renew this or start talking about renewing this in just the next couple of months to have a replacement contract ready come November and December. I guess the one that is of concern to me though when you have an accident situation or whatever situation it results in the ambulance heading out that way if there is an argument for having two response times it is you don't want to put more people at risk with the situation...or by the situation that has developed. For instance, I remember many years ago taking a test to be a policeman and the one of the questions that was asked was you come up on the scene of an accident and traffic is partially blocking the road and there is somebody hurt, there is somebody bleeding and there is somebody laying in the ditch, and what is it you do first? What you do first, as Brad and his Deputies would tell you, is to make sure somebody else doesn't coming driving up and plow into the accident where you have even more casualties. You know, if we say we're only going to have one response time and basically designate everything an emergency or a higher level emergency--

President Jerrel: Delta Level.

Commissioner Mourdock: A Delta Response, I guess I have to question are we going to cause the ambulances to drive faster at times when they don't need to and thus put other people at risk? We don't want to have more people hurt as things progress, but I add that as a comment as something we might want to consider as we start to look at this down the road. 

President Jerrel: Are there any other comments?

Commissioner Tuley: Yeah, the only comment I want to make is this contract does expire, as you indicated, in ten months. In getting reduced times and what have you or more ambulances so that we can get reduced times in a safer condition might be easier if we talked to more than one provider. Mr. Lockard is here and representing someone else and I would ask that when we get in those negotiations that maybe we talk to two different groups and see if somehow we can reduce this response time or the cost or whatever and provide better service if we can.

Commissioner Mourdock: Two or more. 

Commissioner Tuley: Or more, exactly. You're right, two or more. So I just think in our county and the people we represent best interest to get as many people to the table as we can get. 

President Jerrel: Is there anyone else who would like to comment? Is there a motion?

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the contract to extend from the period of January 1, 1999 through December 31, 1999 with AMR for ambulance services in the county excluding the areas of Scott Township, the Town of Darmstadt, and Armstrong Township.

Commissioner Tuley: And I'll second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.
 

President Jerrel: At this time I am going to introduce two new deputies that are with us this evening, they've just joined the Sheriff's Department. Kurt Althoff and Matthew Kimmell. We would like to welcome you. Appreciate your being here. This is sort of typical. Sometimes a little more interesting, sometimes a little more hectic, but typical of Commissioners' meetings and you're welcome to come any time. 

Brad Ellsworth: That was the real reason I came! Can I comment?

President Jerrel: Sure.

Brad Ellsworth: I said this is really the reason I came. Brad Ellsworth, Sheriff. I did want to introduce our two new deputies. When I took office one of my goals was that the new employees did get a better understanding of county government. So many times we go down to that end of the building and we never meet each other and I think it gives them...makes them a better, well rounded employee if they understand and see the faces behind the names and papers, so I would like to introduce to you all Matt Kimmell and Kurt Althoff. Matt comes from Vincennes University and then to the Airborne Rangers, US Army, so he is going to have a lot of experience to bring to the department. Kurt Althoff comes from his second generation, I believe, law enforcement. His father has a long career, John Althoff, with the Evansville Police Department. Kurt also is a graduate of Vincennes University and they were number one and two on the list out of approximately 400 applicants on this new applicant list so they've gone through quite a bit and made quite an accomplishment of ending up number one and two so we would like to welcome them to the department. We're going to run them around in their first year of probation through all of county government so they get a better understanding.

President Jerrel: That's a good idea.

Brad Ellsworth: Thank you.

Commissioner Mourdock: That's a very good idea, Brad. Appreciate it.

President Jerrel: Okay, moving to the department heads. County Engineer.

Commissioner Tuley: Are we going to stop for rezoning? 

President Jerrel: Yeah. We did advertise the rezonings for 6:30, so I would ask that we take a brief...I'm just going...if you'll wait, I'm just going to say that we'll take a brief break in this meeting. Is there a motion to do that and begin the rezoning? 

Commissioner Mourdock: So moved.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: Okay, so ordered.

The meeting was recessed at 6:35 p.m.

The meeting was reconvened at 6:44 p.m.
 

President Jerrel: You ready? Is there a motion to reopen?

Commissioner Mourdock: So moved.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: Alright, the Commissioners' meeting and we were just ready to hear from John Stoll, the County Engineer.

John Stoll: The agreements I put on your desk are the state and county agreements for the construction of the Fulton Avenue Bridge. Pursuant to these agreements the county will pay $2,564,004 and there will be $2.3 million in federal aid used on this bridge. The cost estimate of $4,864,000 came from INDOT. That is their estimate for construction, inspection and a five percent contingency. Joe Harrison has reviewed the agreements and had one change made, but that change has been included in the revised agreement, so it is recommended that the agreement be approved. 

President Jerrel: Is there a motion?

Commissioner Mourdock: So moved.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.

John Stoll: That bridge is on the March 23rd letting and it does have the December 31st completion date. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Which is somewhat different than we normally do it.

John Stoll: Right.

Commissioner Mourdock: We normally just have so many days to finish it and we put a hard date on this bid to see if we could speed it along.

John Stoll: INDOT did confirm that today. Next I've got an acceptance form acknowledging that the Water and Sewer Department did accept the Old State Road sanitary sewer. This was done at their meeting of February 9th. 

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move acceptance of the report.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.

John Stoll: At the last meeting Robin Hahn was here to discuss the eight ton load limit on the Seminary Road bridge. Checking on that Beam, Longest & Neff told me that they had an error in their prioritization of the replacement for bridges and they said that should have been scheduled for year 2000 not for 1998. I told Mr. Hahn that and I told him that if we budgeted the money it is possible we may get it done prior to 2000, but the project is currently not budgeted and we would have to go ahead and get everything else that we currently have planned done before we could really pursue that project, so he is aware of where that bridge weight limit stands. 

Commissioner Tuley: That is...that has been that way for a while has it not? 

John Stoll: Quite some time. We checked the old bridge inspection reports and it has been posted that way for, I believe, it was at least four to six years. 

President Jerrel: Okay.

John Stoll: Next I just want to let you know that Cross Pointe and 62 intersection is finally open to traffic. There are a few items that the contractor needs to take care of on the punch list, but it is open to traffic. At the last meeting Commissioner Tuley had brought up the issue of some stop signs missing on Upper Mount Vernon and on Woods. On Woods was it for the apartments that are being built out there right at that intersection? Because that is the only place we could find where there was no stop sign and that is in the city. 

Commissioner Tuley: Oh, that's fine. He just said Woods and Franklin. 

John Stoll: Okay, I couldn't find anything down there.

Commissioner Tuley: I know there is a division there.

John Stoll: Right.

Commissioner Tuley: Between city and county. Okay, well I'll relate that back to him.

John Stoll: Okay, well if he has got a more specific location that we missed let me know and we'll see if it is us.

President Jerrel: I have a question back on Cross Pointe. Now when is it...is it open now?

John Stoll: It is open. 

President Jerrel: Cross Pointe is open and you can get on Cross Pointe from Morgan and get off on Burkhardt? 

John Stoll: You can head south on Cross Pointe down to Oak Grove and then head west on Oak Grove over to Burkhardt.

President Jerrel: Okay, so there is another passageway there?

John Stoll: Right.

President Jerrel: Okay. Is there anything else? 

John Stoll: That's all I have. One other thing I forgot in regard to some complaints that you had received, Pat, on the water standing at Boonville-New Harmony and Seib, Hedden and Kansas and at McCutchan and Baseline we're waiting for a good rainstorm to go out and see exactly where it is.

Commissioner Tuley: Okay, I'll accept that. 

John Stoll: On the Petersburg Road issue about the potholes there is plenty of potholes out there and I know Erik has been patching some of them and we definitely need to get that road paved this year so that is one we're looking at doing on a contractual basis.

Commissioner Tuley: Okay, John, thanks.

President Jerrel: Okay, thank you very much.

Commissioner Mourdock: Are you going to be here for the Drainage Board meeting tonight?

John Stoll: I was going to leave. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Oh.

John Stoll: Do I need to be here for something? 

Commissioner Mourdock: I don't know. Bill Jeffers is not going to be here and I didn't know if there would be any questions that would come up.

President Jerrel: Linda is here.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay.

John Stoll: I did submit a report on the Bob's Gym site and I forgot to bring a copy for Linda, but if the conditions outlined in Justin Shofstall's letter are followed the water will not cross the road during a 50 year storm. It does involve realignment and reconstruction of the ditch along Rosenberger and it does involve resetting their driveway culvert at a different grade, but based on those calculations they have been reviewed in my office and based on that it will work, so if it is approved it needs to be approved subject to those conditions in addition to anything else requested by the Surveyor's Office. 

President Jerrel: You want to let Linda look at this while...

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll just ask Linda the question if she needs...or if you think John needs to be here for that meeting. If not, that's fine that you can leave, John. I don't care, I just wasn't sure. 
 

President Jerrel: Okay, Erik Bentle, County Garage.

Erik Bentle: The first thing I have is a second sheet you have there. We're getting a new radio system installed this week and Burdette would like to take possession of all of our portable radios which is 16 of them total.

President Jerrel: Yes.

Erik Bentle: And ten of our mobiles to use out at Burdette Park. That would include the repeater along with it. 

President Jerrel: We can do that without a document. We'll just declare them surplus and give it if there is a motion to that effect.

Erik Bentle: Now that will leave approximately 42 radios, mobiles, to be auctioned off.

President Jerrel: Yeah.

Commissioner Mourdock: So moved.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.

Erik Bentle: The other thing I've got I would like permission from the Commissioners to put an article in the paper for ditches. Any county resident that has a ditch that needs to be maintained please contact the County Garage so that we can finish our ditch list and have it in to you by March. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, do we need to schedule a set date for hearing or review on those? I guess we don't like we do the road hearings, right? I don't recall that we've ever done that before.

Commissioner Tuley: No.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: I think we did last year, didn't we? 

Commissioner Mourdock: For ditches?

President Jerrel: Well, we got the list, you know, of the--

Commissioner Tuley: We didn't call for a public hearing though.

President Jerrel: No, we didn't have a public hearing, but I think that is a good point, Erik. Maybe Tony can type up a release and we can get it out so that--

Erik Bentle: We're having trouble coming up with enough ditches to satisfy us for the year and this is going to help us because we just don't want to start digging in people's yards.

Commissioner Mourdock: No.

Erik Bentle: We know what kind of problem that starts.

President Jerrel: Right.

Commissioner Mourdock: Some people in the city have mentioned that to me.

President Jerrel: Okay, well why don't maybe you two guys talk.

Commissioner Tuley: There is a question I have about Red Bank Road north of Upper Mount Vernon on the east side of the road. There is an obvious ditch along the road to a certain point, like the first or second house, and then all of a sudden it is filled in. So every time we get a rain the water comes down and then it just goes over the pipe and then across the road.

Erik Bentle: Apparently some time down the road people have just covered that in to level their yards out.

President Jerrel: It's Anthony all over again.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yeah.

President Jerrel: Anthony Road where people just cover it in.

Commissioner Tuley: Is it in our right...I mean--

Erik Bentle: Yes, it is at our right-of-way and we can start ditching there, but as soon as you go ditching where they have already covered up we open up something we don't want to unless we get permission or to pacify them somehow go ahead and do it. 

President Jerrel: It might be a good idea if you could just get the address of that.

Commissioner Tuley: I'll get you the address. But it does, I mean, they just filled in it. They didn't put a pipe in it, they just filled it in.

Erik Bentle: Yeah, there are several locations like that that we're going to address. We're going to basically have to go knock on their door and explain to them the problem we've got and we need to solve it. You know how that goes, but that is the only way I know to solve that problem.

Commissioner Tuley: Well, that's just one that comes to mind when you're looking for ditches.

Erik Bentle: There are several of them like that.

President Jerrel: You know another thing that could happen that would probably help is if we developed a letter, maybe you two guys could talk about this. A generic letter addressing the opening of those ditches because of what it is causing. If you can't find anybody at home...see, a lot of times you have a lot of--

Erik Bentle: Right, people working.

President Jerrel: --trouble getting people at home and if we at least had a letter in general terms outlining the problem and then ask them to call you.

Erik Bentle: Okay, that will work.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Just so long as we know 100 percent that it's our right-of-way.

Erik Bentle: Oh, we'll check all that out before we do it, yeah.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: If you have any questions call me ASAP.

Erik Bentle: Well, we've got the book that gives all the right-of-way for all the roads. 

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Okay.

Erik Bentle: So we can go by that.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: I understand, but sometimes it's good to double-check.

Commissioner Tuley: Before we get sued.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Yeah.

President Jerrel: I would like to just say, Erik, I appreciate. He has worked really hard to help set some standards and do some things at the Garage and I went out Monday morning...or Friday morning, Sandie and I did, on some of our policies and the men were all very receptive, it was a good meeting. So I appreciate that.

Erik Bentle: Thank you.

Commissioner Tuley: Oak Grove Road, did you get a chance to--

Erik Bentle: Yes, they were out there Friday about 2:15 and ran out of material and didn't have time to go all the back to Rudolph and get more, but they were out there first thing this morning and filled it in.

Commissioner Tuley: Okay, thanks.

Commissioner Mourdock: Erik, one other question. I see on your schedule you've got replacing...oops, I'm sorry. You have framing and pouring the new wash rack in the yard.

Erik Bentle: Uh-huh.

Commissioner Mourdock: Do we have a separate sediment basin for that or how are you...?

Erik Bentle: We've got...yes, we've got a sediment basin that they are putting in for that, yes.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, to make sure we don't have any...my only concern is we're out their washing trucks, we knock a bunch of oil and crud off, it goes in the ditch, and all this other--

Erik Bentle: We've got a six foot by four foot catch basin.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. Stay on top of that then. It sounds like you obviously already are, but we want to make sure we don't create some environmental liability.

Erik Bentle: Yeah, Jack has really done a good job planning this out and checking into it. 

President Jerrel: I think I have sketch of that back there.

Erik Bentle: We have changed the wash basin a little bit to make it a little wider and deeper so we can use our gradalls and backhoes to clean it out when it gets full.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay, there you go. 

Erik Bentle: Yes, we have got a good trap to catch everything.

Commissioner Mourdock: Great, okay. Jack was listening when I spoke before then.

President Jerrel: Yeah, he did.

Erik Bentle: Alright, thank you.

President Jerrel: Okay, thank you.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move acceptance of the weekly report from the Garage.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.
 

President Jerrel: County Attorney. 

Joe Harrison, Jr.: I don't have anything.
 

President Jerrel: Superintendent of County Buildings. 

Tony Greubel: Work was supposed to have started on cleaning up the Futrell Dump today. 

President Jerrel: Good.

Tony Greubel: That's all I have to report.

President Jerrel: Good. Do we have any idea how long that's going to take?

Tony Greubel: They said eight weeks.

President Jerrel: Eight weeks, good. 
 

President Jerrel: Okay, Burdette Park. 

Steve Craig: The first thing I have would be the no smoking recommendations that was made by the Park Board. Do we have any thoughts on that? 

Commissioner Mourdock: I've read through the report and I don't have any problem with what they were recommending.

President Jerrel: Huh-uh, I don't either. 

Commissioner Mourdock: I mean, I think it was reasonable. 

Steve Craig: One suggestion that was made which I thought was kind of clever is that we would have no smoking signs in our office and when people want to make their party that day no smoking we give them the signs. We'll have a little wooden frame, they can put them in there and then nobody can smoke there. That way all of them can actually be no smoking if they wanted. If people wanted smoking then they could on different days when they would have them rented.

President Jerrel: That's a good idea.

Commissioner Mourdock: How many events are there that are referenced in the report, Steve, that we've already rented a facility and the issue was, well, we've already rented it and now we can't go back and tell people they can't smoke in it. I mean, I understand the logic of that. Is that a big problem or is that a small one?

Steve Craig: I would say in excess of 1,000.

Commissioner Mourdock: Dates?

Steve Craig: For a year in advance that's...we rented chalets last year at 900 for a year and then the buildings. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Joe, do we have any problem ex post facto on this? 

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Well, I think it...obviously it should have been...technically it should have been in there if, in fact...are you talking about those who rented some without that being in there? I mean, the thing is, I don't know about ex post facto, what is going to happen is a lot of them are going to cancel, you know.

Commissioner Mourdock: Possibly, yeah.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: But I think just in glancing at this you are going to designate a number of them to be smoke free? 

Steve Craig: Yes.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: I'm sorry, I didn't have a chance to glance through here, but I'm sure you...did you pick a number?

Steve Craig: Yeah. Chalet #3 and #5, Shelter House #8, Lakeside Shelter House and Pool Room A and B. 

Joe Harrison, Jr.: Okay. But, obviously, those that aren't rented, I guess what they are saying in the future if it's those designated ones that are rented they are going to be smoke free all the time. It just may be that someone may smoke in one of those some time this year if they have already contracted for it.

President Jerrel: But we do intend to have information available. I think we'll plan to do something here that is available so that people know that this includes Burdette as well. 

Steve Craig: Yeah, we're going to have...I already talked to Joe.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: We've already talked about amending...in fact, I think we already did amend the contracts.

Steve Craig: Yeah.

President Jerrel: Right, okay.

Joe Harrison, Jr.: And we've amended some other contracts.

Steve Craig: Yeah, we have. One other thing I had was that last fall after we closed the pool down that I had came and talked to you about replacing the filter pumps at the bumper boats and replacing the bumper boat motors because we was putting more money into them repairing them than we could actually go out and buy new ones for. I was wanting to know if we could do something on that now. 

President Jerrel: I suggested to Steve that we...if the Commissioners agree that we could authorize purchase of the filtration system for the bumper boats to be set in, but we would do it either on Council Call or if I can find adequate funds in an appropriate account. The reason I am saying it that way is that if I can find appropriate money then they can go ahead and get them ordered sooner, otherwise it will take them till probably May and then it would be a good bit of time before it would be available.

Commissioner Mourdock: It sounds like I was hearing two different things though. You were talking about the motors in the boats and you're talking about the filtration system.

President Jerrel: Well, the motors...it's all. 

Steve Craig: It's both of them.

President Jerrel: Both of them.

Steve Craig: It's like the whole kit.

Commissioner Mourdock: So your comment, Bettye Lou, regarding the filtration also includes the motors he is talking about?

President Jerrel: The motors, right. 

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay.

President Jerrel: We've been talking about this for about a month. You remember, it came up last month and Gary, our Assistant Manager, is the one that has had experience with this company. That's what the issue was, how long do we have to order them before we can get them in in time for this year's season and Gary wasn't available, he had a death in his family, so Steve got back with me and said, you know, Gary is afraid if we go on Council Call which would be April 15th and it would be the first part of May before--

Steve Craig: That's way too late.

President Jerrel: Yeah, it would be late before we get them. I think there is sufficient money in some of our accounts that we would be able to pay for it, but if there isn't then we'll go on Council Call, so I guess we kind of want a meeting...a motion that would amend itself to either one of those circumstances.

Steve Craig: Because once after we get the filter pumps ordered we have to take the old ones out and we'll install them ourselves, but we'll have to install a complete new filtration system for the bumper boats which won't take a long time but it will be something that needs to be done this spring.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move then that we investigate using Commission funds for the use of the filtration system and bumper boat repair as requested and failing that make Council Call to do the same.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: Thank you. That will work because if we can't find it then we'll just go on Council Call, but at least if we can find it it will get done in time for the season.

Commissioner Mourdock: Okay. I'll also move we accept the Burdette report filed in this evening's packet.

Commissioner Tuley: There is only one question that we need to address that is in there and that is the top of page two.

Commissioner Mourdock: Oh, that's about the, yeah, the bus thing.

Commissioner Tuley: About the bus situation. 

President Jerrel: Right.

Commissioner Tuley: Since they didn't want to make a recommendation. I'm going to accept the report, but then I want to come back to that issue.

President Jerrel: Okay.

Commissioner Tuley: So I'll second your motion on the report.

President Jerrel: I'll say so ordered and then let's go back to the bus issue.

Commissioner Tuley: The Board didn't have trouble that eight years was a fair amount of time, correct?

Steve Craig: No, I explained to them the money and then they wanted to know how many years that was and I said it's the eight that they did. You know, it comes out even. The question that one of them, maybe two of them was questioning, they're both the same entity, the one that was trading the buses was getting the benefits out of the exchange.

Commissioner Tuley: Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I don't guess technically it is a School Corporation funded event, but it is posted and put together by the supervisor for the Athletic Department. It's that annual Sports Appreciation Night or whatever they call that. So I guess the letter could come then from this body to the school approving the use of it eight years specifically for that event. 

Steve Craig: Well, the reason it is not funded though is because don't they get everything donated? So they don't need to fund it.

Commissioner Tuley: Right, that would be my guess. I don't know. 

Steve Craig: I mean, that's what I explained it to them. 

Commissioner Tuley: The only people who are there outside of...to my knowledge the only people that are there are people who are--

President Jerrel: Old coaches.

Commissioner Tuley: Okay, old coaches.

Steve Craig: Old coaches? 

President Jerrel: I mean, all the employees and then some old ones. Well, they may not be old, but they're old. 

Commissioner Tuley: But is there a problem with this body then since the Advisory Board has a problem with it?

President Jerrel: I don't have a problem with it. Do you have a problem with it?

Commissioner Tuley: I don't have a problem. I personally don't have a problem.

Commissioner Mourdock: Make a motion.

Commissioner Tuley: I'll just move then at this time that Tony be directed to write a letter to Mr. Staley at the School Corporation granting them eight years free use of the Bishea Building in exchange for the two buses that were donated specifically for the Sports Appreciation Night, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. Tony, you can write it, you know what I am talking about.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll second.

President Jerrel: And I'll say so ordered. I'll talk to you tomorrow...no, Thursday. The newspaper reported that there is all of the Evansville projects were put on hold by the Ways and Means Committee.

Commissioner Mourdock: Really?

President Jerrel: Yes, all of them. I mean, among all of them is the Burdette Park Build Indiana request. Now I am going up there tomorrow and I am going to try to do some CPR. 

Commissioner Tuley: Well, I think Representative Becker said, and I'm going to paraphrase, but the games haven't really started yet.

President Jerrel: That's right.

Commissioner Tuley: So don't be too alarmed yet.

President Jerrel: It isn't over until the fat lady sings.

Steve Craig: Yeah, it kept sounding better as it got towards the end, but if you read the headlines and the first part of it--

Commissioner Tuley: You thought we were done.

Steve Craig: --it looked like we were gone to begin with.

Commissioner Tuley: But if you're going up there it sure wouldn't hurt anything.

President Jerrel: No, I'm taking some of our, you know, of our booklets and I'm going to go up and make an effort to see as many people as I can. You know, if you all could help out in that respect, too, making telephone calls I think they need to know we really need to revisit this whole issue again and get the letters generated one more time. I think you need to call some of our supporters and ask them to get some letters. If you would get them signed and everything Tony has the addresses of everybody. I think we ought to give it a try.

Commissioner Tuley: Would it not be bad...or a good idea to submit another letter to each of our local people in support as this Board and sent as a bipartisan request to all of them? 

President Jerrel: Yeah, I think it would be if you want to make that in the form of a motion we'll get it going.

Commissioner Mourdock: Sure.

Commissioner Tuley: Then I move at this time that again, Tony, you draft another letter to all the representatives from Vanderburgh County from this body again urging them to reconsider and to push and request that the funding for the Joe O'Day building--

President Jerrel: Discovery Center.

Commissioner Tuley: Discovery Center, I'm sorry.

President Jerrel: Or lodge? Discovery Lodge.

Steve Craig: It's the Joe O'Day Discovery Lodge. 

Commissioner Tuley: There you go. We would want special consideration from them and not let that die.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll ask you to amend your motion slightly because when we did the survey for Burdette Park a couple of years ago, Steve, you'll recall that we were surprised by the amount of usage we had from some of the license plate counts from Posey County, Gibson County and Warrick County, so those representatives from those counties might well receive that letter also.

Commissioner Tuley: Very good.

President Jerrel: We did have...and I think that would be very helpful.

Steve Craig: The Day Camp does have a high use from the Newburgh area and from Posey County.

President Jerrel: Yeah.

Commissioner Mourdock: I'm sure you still have that report, Steve, maybe you can get those numbers to Tony so that he can include that reference in those letters as well.

President Jerrel: In the letter.

Commissioner Mourdock: To those Representatives and State Senators. 

Commissioner Tuley: Our attorney said let's make one more amendment and include the Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee.

President Jerrel: Yeah, Pat Bauer, we want to make sure he gets...well, Tony has all the members now. I think we need to let them know because we did all that work and we've been--

Commissioner Tuley: Just to sit back and say, okay, well you're not going to give it to us.

President Jerrel: Yeah, and we have to...and it benefits so many people. It isn't just us.

Commissioner Mourdock: It isn't just Vanderburgh County.

President Jerrel: No.

Commissioner Tuley: That's right. That's a good point.

Commissioner Mourdock: I don't know that I formally seconded the motion but I'll do that.

President Jerrel: And I'll say so ordered. 

Steve Craig: Thank you very much.

President Jerrel: And then I'll call you when I get back.

Steve Craig: Okay.
 

President Jerrel: Okay, moving right along we have Mike Wathen, Soil & Water, and the Ozone Officer. Is there a motion to accept those?

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move we accept both reports.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.
 

President Jerrel: Under the consent items are there any questions? If not, is there a motion?

Commissioner Mourdock: I'll move approval of the consent items as filed.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered.
 

President Jerrel: You've got the scheduled meeting list. 
 

President Jerrel: Is there any old business that needs to come before the Board?
 

President Jerrel: Any new business besides establishing a road hearing date? 

Commissioner Tuley: I don't know if this would be Commissioners' business, but I would just like to remind everybody, Suzanne and Betty Hermann, are the two Republicans, and Rick Borries and myself are hosting the annual Hasenpfeffer this Saturday starting at 11:00 a.m. and going until question mark. Usually around 2:00, isn't it? 

Suzanne Crouch: I think it's around 2:00.

Commissioner Tuley: About 2:00 at Germania Maennerchor. You are all invited. There will not be any long winded political speeches. 

President Jerrel: Good. That's the 27th?

Commissioner Tuley: The 27th, uh-huh. 

Commissioner Mourdock: We believe you when you tell us that because you're a politician too, right? 

Commissioner Tuley: That's right.

Commissioner Mourdock: One bit of maybe new or continuing business just as a reminder and I think, Pat, you're going to be there, but the evening Wednesday the 24th at Daniel Wertz School the Westside Improvement Association is having their meeting and they've asked that we be there specifically to talk about things like Carpenter Creek so I'm certainly going to be there and I think you're--

Commissioner Tuley: At 7:00 p.m., I'll be there.

President Jerrel: I'll--

Commissioner Mourdock: You'll be in Indy.

Commissioner Tuley: You'll be in Indy.

President Jerrel: I won't be back from Indy, so I won't be there. Okay.

Commissioner Mourdock: It will be an interesting meeting, I'm sure. 

President Jerrel: I bet. Okay, how about road hearing dates? 

Commissioner Mourdock: Typically we do that about mid March.

President Jerrel: Well, we've got the 15th is on a Monday or the 22nd is on a Monday. 

Commissioner Mourdock: I think the earlier the better. 

President Jerrel: The 15th.

Commissioner Mourdock: Never know where the weather is going to be, but if we get an earlier break and we've got the priorities set it gives us that much more time, so I would move March 15th be the date for the annual road hearing.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered. Charlene, will you...did you hear that?

Charlene Timmons: Yes.

President Jerrel: Okay.

Charlene Timmons: Permission to advertise.

Commissioner Mourdock: I move permission to advertise that date. 

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered. Any other business to come before the Board? Hearing none, is there a motion to adjourn? 

Commissioner Mourdock: So moved.

Commissioner Tuley: Second.

President Jerrel: So ordered. 

The meeting was adjourned at 7:10 p.m.

Those in attendance:

Bettye Lou Jerrel

Richard E. Mourdock

Patrick Tuley

Joe Harrison, Jr.

Suzanne M. Crouch

Charlene Timmons

Tony Greubel

Joe Coleman

John Dyer

Roger Lehman

Barbara Cunningham

Dwayne Caldwell

John Buckman

Mike Lockard

Brad Ellsworth

Kurt Althoff

Matthew Kimmell

John Stoll

Erik Bentle

Steve Craig

Others unidentified

Members of the media
 
 

Vanderburgh County
Board of Commissioners

Bettye Lou Jerrel, President

Richard E. Mourdock, Vice President

Patrick Tuley, Member
 

Recorded and transcribed by Charlene Timmons.