VANDERBURGH COUNTY

BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS

FEBRUARY 17, 2009

The Vanderburgh County Board of Commissioners met in session this 17^th day of February, 2009 at 5:03 p.m. in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex with President Troy Tornatta presiding.

President Tornatta: Good evening. We’re going to commence to start the agenda of the Board of Commissioners, February 17, 2009, room 301. We’ll call the roll of attendance please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Here.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Here.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Here.

President Tornatta: To lead us in our pledge of allegiance is Amy Rich from Patchwork Central.

(The Pledge of Allegiance was given.)

President Tornatta: Amy?

Amy Rich: My name is Amy Rich, and I am the–

Commissioner Melcher: The microphone.

Amy Rich: My name is Amy Rich, and I’m one of the two co-directors of Patchwork Central. The other director is my husband, John. Patchwork is a small, non-profit organization at the corner of Washington Avenue and Sixth Street. We serve the community that surrounds our building. We have a variety of community services, we have a food pantry and we have after school children’s programs, of which Alissa Powers who led the pledge is one of the participants, and Paula Adams is one of our staff members who leads all of the young adults leadership activities. We also have a bicycle program that provides bicycles, in coordination with Aurora, to homeless and low income individuals who need transportation. We also are just a building and a place that people can come if they need a warm place to come and have a cup of coffee and talk to people and get some referrals to other organizations. So, that’s a little bit about Patchwork. We have a fundraiser coming up next week on February 26^th, and it’s a soup, salad and style show. It starts at 11:30 and goes until 1:00, and tickets are $35 a person, and a table of eight is $250.

President Tornatta: And where is it located?

Amy Rich: We’re at 100 Washington Avenue.

President Tornatta: No, the style show.

Amy Rich: The style show–

President Tornatta: The same place?

Amy Rich: Yeah, that’s at Patchwork.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Amy Rich: So, it’s a whole lunch, and it’s a good event, and everyone who comes gets a free piece of art, because a lot of what we do at Patchwork is art related.

President Tornatta: Okay, and who do you have with you today?

Amy Rich: I’ve got Alissa Powers who is a youth in our program, and Paula Adams who is a staff member.

President Tornatta: Well, thanks for coming.

Amy Rich: Sure, thanks for inviting us.

President Tornatta: Absolutely. I hope everything is successful.

Amy Rich: Thanks.

President Tornatta: Alright, permission to open VC.09-02-01, Mohr Road Bridge number 1381 repair.

Commissioner Winnecke: So moved.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Alright, starting our action items. First and final reading, CO.02-09-005, an ordinance amending meeting ordinance regarding rezoning meetings. An ordinance which will have the effect of amending section 2.04.020, the Commissioners meeting, to change the dates of Commissioners meetings when rezoning petitions will be heard as set forth therein. What we’ll be asking for is a motion to waive the second reading.

Commissioner Winnecke: Mr. President, just for clarification, this vote amends our previous ordinance which will allow this body a little more time to study the results of the recommendations from the Area Plan Commission. At this point, I would make a motion that we waive the second reading.

Commissioner Melcher: I would second that motion.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Now, I need a motion to approve the ordinance.

Commissioner Melcher: I make a motion to approve.

Commissioner Winnecke: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any discussion?

Commissioner Melcher: Yeah, I would just like to say, I think this will give us more time to work with a, when I came off City Council we did a lot of rezonings in 17 years, and you have to have the time frame that comes out of Area Plan, and we didn’t have that. So, now this gives us some time in between. The City Council had to do the same thing. So, you just can’t have a meeting one night, plus we’re paying overtime to have the minutes done. Isn’t that right?

Janet Greenwell: Well, sort of.

Commissioner Melcher: Most of the time. So, we’re saving money and we’re going to have more time to help the people. So, I’m for that.

President Tornatta: I think it’s a great idea, and thanks for both Commissioners for bringing this to the Commission’s attention. A motion and a second. Discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: The second and final reading of CO.02-09-004, street solicitation ordinance. An amendment to the ordinance to require that charitable organizations apply for permits to be based in, on and have an office or a chapter in Vanderburgh County on a contiguous, in a contiguous Indiana county. I think I botched that whole thing. Anyway, street solicitation for charitable organizations to apply for permits. A motion for approval.

Commissioner Melcher: So moved.

Commissioner Winnecke: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any discussion?

Commissioner Winnecke: I would just, for the point of clarification, this is to ensure that folks are not trying to raise money on our street corners for charitable purposes that do not remain in this area. It’s happened a couple of times recently, and kudos to Sheriff Williams for bringing this to our attention.

President Tornatta: Roll call vote, please.

Commissioner Melcher: Is there anybody in the public that might have something to say? Okay.

President Tornatta: Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Alright, we have our storm removal, storm debris removal plan from the ice storm. Todd? Todd Chamberlain is with Allied and will go over the plan that was negotiated for the city and the county.

Todd Chamberlain: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Again, I’m Todd Chamberlain, the division sales manager with Allied Waste here in Evansville. Over the past few days I’ve been in some conversations, reviewing some information that I’ve provided in a proposed plan to extend the city’s program for curbside collection of the storm debris, ice generated from our most recent storm event. We’re currently operating this program in an identical form within the city limits. We are proposing for your consideration to extend that into the county. With that we would adhere to the same criteria of collection, four feet in length, six inches in diameter, collected curbside, giving the residents of the county the opportunity to rid their properties of storm debris that is a result of the recent storms. This, everything that we are doing is in compliance with FEMA standards and regulations and process, as we understand them today. In fact, I checked, just yesterday I checked with FEMA, in fact, and reviewed some of that process. In fact, they seemed, they agreed that our estimates seem to be in line with county, as well as city. With that, I would ask that your consideration be given to this proposal. Are there any questions that I could answer.

President Tornatta: Yeah, Todd, if you would please, go over how the gridding would work, as far as extending the city to the county? Then, also, if you could, talk about potential, the turnkey to go out at the Burdette Park site and the Busler site just north of the 4-H Center and how that would comply?

Todd Chamberlain: Sure. Specifically, the county has been set up, we have taken the county property and grid it into eleven areas, of which I have a map that I would like to present for your review, following my presentation. Then, I would like to ask some questions and get some assistance from you to ensure that this meets with your approval in terms of grid area, and also ask, I believe there’s a possibility there’s a GIS system that this might even be able to be loaded into, that then we could put that out to the public in the most efficient manner. Whether that’s through the media, or through other sources. But, what we would do is we would target, just as we’ve done within the city limits, a particular grid area, and then that notification would go out to the residents through normal and standard media outlets, where there would be a specific date in which our crews would be in the area collecting that debris that is in the specifications that we’ve set forth. That would then follow sequentially through those 11 grids. We would estimate that it would take about a week to a week and a half to get this done. I mean, obviously, there’s 11 grids, if, in an ideal situation we had two days per grid, there’s your period of time in which the work could be completed. These are based on our estimates of what we see in the field. So, far we’re doing the work in the city, and the volume is very heavy, but that’s to be expected. What you see on the curbside, one of the challenges is you don’t see what’s behind in the backyard that also was there that they haven’t brought to the curb. So, our estimates seem to be in line though. What we’re seeing over the first two days of the debris seem to be in line, so, I’m confident of that. One way that I know has been considered in looking at citing two county collection debris sites where residents, as I understand it, could bring the material to those sites themselves, if they so desired. If that’s the county’s wish to set that up, that’s an option and certainly we would not stand in the way of that at all. What we’re looking at doing is providing a curbside option for the residents. That material, once it’s collected at those collection points, which I believe are Burdette Park and the Busler’s site, the old Busler’s site on 41, once that material is collected there, a number of things could be done with it. It could be taken into Laubscher Meadows landfill after it’s processed and ground. It could be mixed with soil to extend soil conservation. We could do that, but at this point I think there are other options that the county may want to look at in terms of that material. That would certainly be up to your discretion. And, whether we haul it or it’s hauled or managed by you, that’s at your discretion.

President Tornatta: If that was managed by you, could that be plugged into the program?

Todd Chamberlain: Are you asking could we manage those sites?

President Tornatta: Uh-huh.

Todd Chamberlain: Are you asking us then to also grind the material?

President Tornatta: Probably.

Todd Chamberlain: Are you looking from an oversight–

President Tornatta: Probably a turnkey for everything as an option.

Todd Chamberlain: Okay. We could do that. We would need to do some review on those particular two sites, as we’ve sited our initial site at Roberts Stadium, but certainly could do that over the next day. Just to verify the equipment could be set up, minimal damage and issue to, you know, siting that, making sure that drainage is proper, so that we meet any potential IDEM requirements and restrictions that they may have. But, we could certainly do that over the next couple of days and certainly would be willing to do that.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Commissioner Melcher: I guess, I got a little confused, but at least I think I’m hearing right. So, you’re going to set up the grids and you’re going to go door-to-door in the county. In other words, in these subdivisions and that? Because that’s where I’m starting to get calls, they say, well, I can’t take it to a drop off point.

Todd Chamberlain: Sure.

Commissioner Melcher: I just own a small car. I’m 65 years old and I’m going to have a hard time getting it four feet long.

Todd Chamberlain: Right.

Commissioner Melcher: So, what you’re saying you’re going to do exactly the same thing?

Todd Chamberlain: No, what I’m saying, and I apologize if I was confusing in that point. We will conduct the similar program as we’re doing with the city, which is curbside–

Commissioner Melcher: Right.

Todd Chamberlain: –and we will collect material that is in the specification that, if we choose to change the specification it can be done, but the city’s program currently calls for four feet sections, less than six inches in diameter. But, if the county so chooses to change that, we can make that adjustment and we can collect as large a material as long as it is curbside. There is a consideration that needs to be taken in relative to potential FEMA reimbursements in that it had to be in the right-of-way. So, again, we’re not going on to personal property. That’s not our intention. It was never our intention in any of this program. But, to answer your question specifically, we will do a curbside, we will do it at the curbside.

Commissioner Melcher: So, that’s the main thing. I don’t think that four foot long, I just know that some of them said they are having a hard time with that, but they just can’t take it in their truck or their car to Busler’s let’s say, or whatever. So, you’re going to do curbside?

Todd Chamberlain: We’re, that is one option that we’re offering. If the county so elects to site those two additional collection points, that would be where I would need to do that additional review. I can accommodate that within the program that we have, but I would ask for at least a day to do that.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Yeah, I would just point out that the contract that you will have before you today provides for only curbside, and sets a set of prices for the curbside, and would not, you know, it would have to be really re-negotiated to accommodate the other sites.

Todd Chamberlain: And we would, irregardless, we would be willing, if you wanted us to start and continue to move forward with the curbside collection, irregardless of those other two sites, we can and do have the ability to do that, under the existing pricing structure that we’re presenting tonight.

President Tornatta: Questions?

Commissioner Winnecke: A couple of questions. Todd, talk about, again, the notification process of residents? Again, you said, you estimate a week to a week and a half in terms of total pick up.

Todd Chamberlain: Based on volume.

Commissioner Winnecke: Based on volume?

Todd Chamberlain: Yeah, that’s a good estimate. Again, I point out that with the volumes that are there, and with the volumes, once we announce the program, I suspect we’re going to see additional volumes that go to the curbside. At this point, I think the county residents are waiting to see what is going to happen. Once that does occur, then I think we’re going to see those volumes move out. It’s very important, as we’ve seen in past history that we communicate to the residents the time frame, give them adequate time to get their materials to the curbside so that we provide the service that is intended, and then also make sure that we can communicate to them that this is the particular day in which we plan to be there, making sure that they have ample time to get their material to the curbside. So, we would just need to make sure that we communicate that properly.

Commissioner Winnecke: Two other questions, assuming we would pass this tonight, when would you anticipate beginning the program in the county?

Todd Chamberlain: That would be at your discretion. We can go to work as quickly as possible. I think the residents are probably asking for that. Logistically we’re ready to go. We could do it within a matter of days.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: The contract indicates tomorrow.

Todd Chamberlain: The contract indicates we could go to work as soon as tomorrow. I think that probably prudence would dictate that we give at least a couple, three days, maybe we start Monday. That would give adequate time for the residents. But, again, that’s at your discretion. Whatever you guys feel is appropriate there.

Commissioner Winnecke: For clarification purposes based on a private conversation that we had late last week, the price that is negotiated through, by our two bodies, is really based upon the volume of debris that is collected.

Todd Chamberlain: That’s correct.

Commissioner Winnecke: And not the number of miles you drive or the number of stops you make?

Todd Chamberlain: It is not.

Commissioner Winnecke: But, just the tonnage?

Todd Chamberlain: It is based on volume, cubic yards, and then, obviously, there’s a tonnage element to it, but, once it’s reduced down. But, yes, it is not based on drive bys, it’s not based on, you know, as a per unit price. We take those things into consideration, obviously, in the costing of the mileage, but that’s something that falls upon us.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Mr. Winnecke, the contract would provide for a higher charge for tonnage, depending on some of the mileage, if you get beyond 60 miles. So, I just wanted to mention that. But, it’s not anticipated that any trip would be anywhere outside the (Inaudible).

Todd Chamberlain: Not based on my understanding of the county limits. We’re all within that 60 mile radius.

President Tornatta: Okay, before you leave, I’ll just call Mike Duckworth up here and talk about what his plans are. Then, if we feel the need to move forward. Mike, we had talked about potentially working out something with Allied to just do a turnkey on both of those operations. Where do we, where are we at in that process?

Mike Duckworth: Well, we are ready to be engaged at Burdette or at Busler’s if the contract, or the document that Mr. Ziemer negotiated with Busler’s Corporation is approved this evening, which indemnifies them. We’re ready to move forward tomorrow, at Burdette Park in the parking lot in front of the pool. Also, at a Busler’s location at Old State. We want to make sure it’s Old State, not the one out by I-164, so, or 64. So, the, we would have mulchers there, we would collect it and mulch it, and then according to how the Commissioners wanted it to happen, we could transport it to Allied or, I guess, they could pick it up, or Mr. Craig may be able to use some of the mulch in the park. We could offer it to county residents, you know, if they would like it, you know, for conservation or whatever the case may be. So, we’re ready to do that, I would just say, if we do that, we’re going to have to pull some crews off the road. As you know, we had a number of trees that went across the roadway, and our crews have been busy working those roads, getting the bigger trees and the brush out of the ditches that we had to push aside to clear the roadway. That’s been our concentration since the snow has dissipated.

President Tornatta: I guess, that brings us to the question do we keep those crews on the road clearing the debris and getting it out of the road, versus doing a turnkey? Which, as they’re working at either one of these sites, they will not be eligible for FEMA funding.

Commissioner Winnecke: Until we’re into, actually, we would be eligible, if I recall, eligible for FEMA reimbursement based on the equipment that we use and any overtime of manpower.

Mike Duckworth: That’s right.

Commissioner Winnecke: But, anyone’s straight time we would not.

Mike Duckworth: That’s exactly right. I would say that the schedule that we had orchestrated was starting tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. until 4:00 p.m., Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then Saturday 8:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Friday and Saturday would be overtime days, because we’re on ten hour days.

President Tornatta: If, and, Todd, if we were to go through this process with you, then it would still be under the FEMA guidelines?

Todd Chamberlain: Absolutely. Everything that we’re doing ties exactly with FEMA guidelines as we understand it today. Not only that, but there is something to consider too, and as I’m hearing Mr. Duckworth speak, the material that he is speaking of that may still be in the right-of-way, that would be entirely his responsibility if he continues to work on that area. Our program does not touch that material as it stands right now. So, those resources may be better used, that’s obviously at your discretion, but it may be better used to continue to do that work while we may man these sites, if you so want to set the two sites up. Or, the final option, obviously, is if we do that curbside program and that is the program. But, again, totally at your discretion.

Commissioner Winnecke: The challenge we have before us tonight is that–

President Tornatta: Right, we don’t have the contract.

Commissioner Winnecke: – we don’t have a contract for the turnkey with Allied. However, the county employees are, based on Mr. Duckworth’s direction, are ready to begin tomorrow at two sites. It might be several days before we have an amended contract that allows Allied to do both the curbside pickup and the drop off sites.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Well we can do that contract pretty quick tomorrow morning, if we have direction as to how the contract, I mean, what you expect.

Todd Chamberlain: And, there are provisions in, I don’t mean to interrupt, but there are provisions within the pricing fee schedule that would allow us to do that without re-evaluating anything. We would just need to rewrite paperwork and agree to those terms.

President Tornatta: Well, and that brings me to my next question. If we were to extend the contract with the provisions we’ve talked about for the two off sites, we could vote on the contract today with the amended language, and then you could write that amended language into the contract and it would be set up as if we had the contract today?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Yes, you could do that, but you would have to tell me exactly what the terms of the contract are to be that you’re going to be approving today, and then I would put exactly that into the agreement that would have been pre-approved and you could sign that.

President Tornatta: Then, Todd, when would you have people out there on those two sites?

Todd Chamberlain: I would estimate that it would take us two days to mobilize those people, just so we would have those sites. The important part is that we can be there, it’s just a matter of getting an additional two pieces of grinding equipment, which is, pardon me, go ahead.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Well, we also have the contract with Busler, and it currently provides that the work on the property will be done Thursday, Friday and Saturday of this week, and that the mulch or other refuse debris will be removed from the Busler property by Saturday, February 28^th. Again, all that can be changed, but that means a new agreement with Busler.

President Tornatta: Well, if they had that contract, I mean, I’m sure you could have somebody–

Todd Chamberlain: Yes.

President Tornatta: –do that contract, plus they would have all the debris removed.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Sure.

Todd Chamberlain: Under the existing provisions of what we have in place right now.

Mike Duckworth: I just want to add, I met with the Busler’s representative this morning, and he is agreeable, of course, he is not charging the county. He is just doing this as a public service, and he is agreeable to allowing us to use that property, within reason, when we need it. So, I don’t think that would be a problem.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: No, what would be the problem, Mike, is that we have an agreement that says something.

Mike Duckworth: I understand.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: And, we can always change it, but it’s not ready tonight.

Mike Duckworth: My point is that he would be agreeable to changes. So, I don’t think that would change the location.

President Tornatta: Okay. Steve, did you have a–

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Commissioner Tornatta, if Allied, for example, we want to amend their contract to provide that they’re going to do a service that the county employees were going to do, and if they can start doing that tomorrow, we’re within the terms of the Busler contract. What it says is, that people aren’t going to be allowed to bring debris there with the property unattended. The debris would come between the hours of 8:00 and 4:00 tomorrow, I mean, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, and 8:00 and 3:00 on Saturday, and that we’ll have somebody there to receive it and do the mulching. The people bringing it don’t care about the mulching, they just want to come and bring it to somebody. Busler doesn’t want it to be unattended while people are bringing trash, or debris to the property.

President Tornatta: Well, I mean, and then if there is an issue, we could man the site for a day. I mean, if that’s, if there’s an issue with manning the site. I mean, I think we could work that out between Allied and the county.

Todd Chamberlain: Without a doubt. Without a doubt we can accommodate that if that’s the direction you so go.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Todd Chamberlain: We can make that work.

President Tornatta: Okay. Steve?

Steve Craig: Steve Craig, Manager of Burdette. A couple of questions that I had about them using Burdette. I have no problem with that, but is this going to be the curbside that they pick up and then bring out there and dump? Or, is this only going to be the people that are bringing it out?

President Tornatta: This would only be for those who maybe have stacked everything in a trailer, and just want to dump that debris out. Or, maybe they don’t have a good frontage to be able to dump any information, and they’ll go ahead and dump the debris.

Steve Craig: Okay. Well, I had several people call me.

President Tornatta: And this is wood debris. This is not–

Steve Craig: Correct.

President Tornatta: –for all out there, when we say storm debris, this is wood only.

Steve Craig: I had two or three calls today of people wanting the mulch. We need to make a provision that if they come up with a pick up truck that we can fill their pick up truck full of mulch, or people bring out the limbs and that and want to take the mulch home with them. Is that a problem?

President Tornatta: I don’t have a problem. Do we have to have something signed as to, you know, if a stick falls out and scratches their car are we responsible? How have we done that in the past?

Steve Craig: In the past I made them load it by hand. If they wanted to do it, they could get a shovel, pull up to the mulch and load their truck and go on their way.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Steve Craig: It’s not a common policy–

President Tornatta: However you want to do it. I think if we have anything that’s dealing with loaders or what not that we need to have them sign a waiver or something.

Steve Craig: Okay. That’s all the questions I have.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Steve Craig: Thank you.

President Tornatta: Thank you. Any other questions of the Board?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Well, we know how we can change the contract, depending on what the Commissioners wish.

President Tornatta: Okay. Todd, will you work out, if this is amended, will you work out with Mike if you need those individuals out there at 8:00? Because, I mean, we would have to know that to make sure that we stay on our schedule.

Todd Chamberlain: Just for clarification, right, just for clarification, what you’re saying is that tomorrow morning at 8:00, from 8:00 to 4:00 I need to be prepared to man that site with the understanding that I’m collecting material from the county residents only?

President Tornatta: Right.

Commissioner Winnecke: Two sites.

Todd Chamberlain: Two sites.

Commissioner Melcher: Two sites, correct.

Todd Chamberlain: That would be Burdette Park and the Busler’s location.

Mike Duckworth: The Busler’s at Old State.

President Tornatta: Old State, the Busler’s at Old State–

Todd Chamberlain: Right.

President Tornatta: –and Burdette Park.

Todd Chamberlain: I can work that out with Duckworth.

President Tornatta: Then, would we, how long would you keep the mulched material on the ground before you would ship it out? Because we are talking about, especially at Burdette Park, and, Steve, this is something I don’t know if you want to keep it for a period of time, but, I mean, we have to have some understanding so we get that material off the dock.

Todd Chamberlain: The only answers that I can specifically give you are relative to landfill requirements and permitting. So, they would not be applicable to these two sites. I would think that, and this is my own speculation based on what I know, you probably could set that material there for a week before you would have to have final disposition on it before anybody would start asking any questions. That’s again, my opinion.

President Tornatta: Well, I guess, what I’m saying is we would, at some point I’m sure, especially on the Busler’s site, if there was material left that was not taken away, we would want that–

Todd Chamberlain: You would want that disposed of.

President Tornatta: –scooped out.

Todd Chamberlain: Scooped up and moved.

President Tornatta: Yes.

Todd Chamberlain: Yes, it would be managed just the same way we would manage at the same temporary disposal site at Roberts Stadium.

Commissioner Melcher: Right.

Todd Chamberlain: We’re doing that now. We’re just, what I think I’m understanding you to say is, do this same process, only do it for a specific period of time giving the county residents an option to bring their own under the same costing, the same fee schedule, just, you’re just calling it two different locations.

President Tornatta: Right, but they could also–

Todd Chamberlain: Can they take it?

President Tornatta: That’s what I’m saying about the taking away of the mulch.

Todd Chamberlain: Yeah, if you want to come up and load the stuff up with your own labor and resource, that’s certainly up to you.

President Tornatta: So, we’re on the same plain.

Todd Chamberlain: I think so.

President Tornatta: Questions of the Board?

Commissioner Winnecke: No.

Commissioner Melcher: No. I like the idea of amending it.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Great. Tell me how you want it amended.

Commissioner Melcher: I thought you just said you had that worked out.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Well, I just need to know what your understanding is. I have it worked out with him how we can do it, but I want to know–

Commissioner Winnecke: Mr. Chairman, I would move at this time that we enter into an agreement with Allied Waste to proceed with the previously proposed curbside pick up and add the additional two pick up points at Burdette Park and the Busler’s at 41 and Old State Road–

Todd Chamberlain: Old State Road.

Commissioner Winnecke: –for the option of county residents to bring their debris beginning tomorrow, the 18^th of February, the 19^th and the 20^th from 8:00 to 4:00, and again on Saturday from 8:00 to 3:00, all of which would be manned by Allied.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: And, if you would, add to that to authorize the President of the Commissioners to sign that agreement tomorrow, after we have it prepared.

Commissioner Winnecke: And, I would include in my motion to authorize the President to sign the contract after it’s prepared.

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll second it.

President Tornatta: Does lunch come with that? Alright, a motion and a second.

Commissioner Melcher: Sawdust does.

President Tornatta: Sawdust, okay. Alright, any other questions of the Board, or in the audience? Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Thank you guys. Appreciate it.

Commissioner Winnecke: Troy?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Todd, if you would call me in the morning when you get in. I get in about 6:00, I don’t know what time you do, but I’ll be there.

Todd Chamberlain: I’ll call you at 5:30.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Okay.

Commissioner Winnecke: Hey, Todd? Todd, one last thing also, if you could work, once you get the grid notification schedule out, if you could work with Marissa in the Commissioners office–

Todd Chamberlain: Marissa? Okay.

Commissioner Winnecke: –to make sure that the communication flow is what it should be?

Todd Chamberlain: The standard number into the Commissioners office?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Todd Chamberlain: Marissa? Okay. I will do so.

Commissioner Winnecke: Thanks, Todd.

Todd Chamberlain: Thank you.

Commissioner Melcher: Thank you.

President Tornatta: Request for extensions of payment of back taxes. Number one is 1513 Florence, number two, 1108 Read Street, number three, 1332 Keller, and number four, 1119 Uhlhorn. What we have, and what we have done for a short period of time is to allow people in tough economic times to catch up on any of their back taxes that have requested the potential to catch up on those taxes. That was done until March 1, 2009. However, there has been a request to extend that date on to other potential dates. It has been the opinion of our counsel that there is a drop dead date, however, I leave it up to the Board to have discussion on that drop dead date, and if those extensions should be levied.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Just a comment, on behalf of the County Attorney, any extensions that you grant beyond March the 1^st, which is consistently what you have done up to this time, will be setting a precedent. I don’t know how many people will call in and ask to have their taxes further extended beyond that date. When we get to the drop dead date, we wouldn’t be able to auction those properties in 2009, because we couldn’t get them on the schedule and get title in the county. Our recommendation would be that you stick with March 1, 2009.

President Tornatta: Any questions of the Board?

Commissioner Winnecke: No questions. I would move that we vote to extend the 1513 Florence, 1108 Read, 1332 Keller and 1119 Uhlhorn, to those property tax owners to March 1^st to pay their taxes, back taxes.

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. The one comment I will have is that I think this Board has been very understanding in allowing people to take care of some issues that they might not have been able to take care of in certain hard times. However, keep in mind that there is a majority of the folks in Vanderburgh County that have been able to take care of those issues in a proper amount of time, and I would not want to penalize them as well. So, I will accept this myself, and appreciate the Board’s willingness to work till March 1^st, but past that, I think, we’re not doing a service to the rest of the citizens. So, without any other questions, roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Alright, contracts, agreements and leases. Drug and Alcohol Deferral contract for translating services. Can I have a motion?

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll make a motion to accept.

Commissioner Winnecke: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any questions? Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Number two, Commissioners Long and Mathies engagement letter for lobbying before the Indiana General Assembly.

Commissioner Winnecke: Mr. President?

President Tornatta: Yep.

Commissioner Winnecke: I don’t know what the right, the correct protocol here is, but I would like some discussion on this.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Commissioner Winnecke: On just, a general discussion on lobbying before we bring any of these three, the next three issues to a vote. So, I don’t know how you want to proceed with that as a caveat.

President Tornatta: Well, in the past years, the, Vanderburgh County has just, I think probably, Ted, since 2004 maybe?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Yes.

President Tornatta: Since 2004, Vanderburgh County has selected to have a lobbyist, or lobbyists that will actually go and look at business for the county, look at potential grants, look at potential opportunities for the county to bring back some money from the State legislature and then in some cases the federal government. They have alerted us to many grants that we can apply for, that we had not known about in the past, and also worked with other of our offices to get them with grants and to apply for grants that were otherwise not applied for in the past. These groups also handle issues in the General Assembly and issues with the Governor, the federal government, the Senate and the Congress to try and get us favor, as you would expect a lobbyist to do. Our intention this year was to bring back the cost of our lobbying fees, and to actually try to get our best bang for our buck with these individuals and use them in such a way that was advantageous for Vanderburgh County. As opposed to going with one, we have elected, at this point, to go with three different lobbyists. We have, it looks like we have brought the totals of those lobbying fees down quite a bit, and we have an opportunity to, obviously, test the waters and make sure that we get our best bang for our buck in the county.

Commissioner Winnecke: I guess, I’m not, I guess, I don’t, I’m not entirely comfortable today going in the direction of breaking up, in the case of the State lobbying effort, into two firms, neither of whom I know anything about. Which is maybe neither here nor there, but, I guess, I don’t understand why we need two lobbyists at the State level.

President Tornatta: Well, you have to have, and Ted can tell you, you have to have an executive lobbyist and a legislative lobbyist. They have to all be on a, for lack of other terms, a list, a lobbyist list, so those entities know and can quantify who’s lobbying with them.

Commissioner Winnecke: But, one, what you’re saying is one of these agencies could not do both?

President Tornatta: Potentially, it’s just where their expertise is.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Excuse me, just to clarify, you have to have a separate contract with a lobbyist to do executive lobbying at the state level, you have to have a separate contract with a lobbyist to do general assembly lobbying at the state level, you have to have a separate contract with a lobbyist to do federal lobbying. One firm could do all three of those things under three separate contracts. Or, three firms could do each of those things under three separate contracts.

Commissioner Winnecke: I understand. What’s the area of expertise of each of these?

President Tornatta: Well, we’re going over the Long and Mathies engagement. Long and Mathies would be more General Assembly. The Phillips and Phillips would be General Assembly and executive, but they would handle the executive part, but we listed them as General Assembly as well. Then, the Barnes and Thornburg would be the federal lobbyist.

Commissioner Winnecke: But, in terms of the state lobbying team that we’re looking at today, do Long and Mathies have an expertise that’s different from Phillips and Phillips when it comes to lobbying the General Assembly?

President Tornatta: Well, I guess, Phillips and Phillips we could just have them do the executive branch, but for the same amount that we have, they would do the executive and the General Assembly lobbying on kind of taking care of one half, and then Long and Mathies would take care of the other half, still saving us money from where we were last year by a third.

Commissioner Winnecke: Then, what is, I have the contracts here somewhere, what is their obligation to the county to report progress made on specific lobbying efforts on our behalf?

President Tornatta: They, in the past I think we, Ted, I’m not real sure, but I think we had a monthly report?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: That’s what we’ve done. They’ll report as frequently as we ask them to. They’re required to file, to prepare for the county to file a lobbyist report twice annually, at each level, executive, General Assembly, and federal. So, those reports are prepared and submitted to the county to review, sign and then to get filed with the lobbying commission. But, generally we’ve had them report in addition on specific projects that the county might be interested in, and they would do that whenever the county asks for them.

Commissioner Winnecke: Okay. Then, typically, because two of us are new Commissioners here, how often do the lobbyists meet with the Commissioners?

President Tornatta: They would meet effectively anytime that you ask them to, within a, obviously, they have a session to lobby, so, if we needed them now, we would get them on the phone and have a conference call. If we thought that they were, you know, if we were off session, then they would meet us in person.

Commissioner Melcher: Who was the one we had last year? Wasn’t it Barnes and Thornburg that we had phone calls, conversations with?

President Tornatta: Correct.

Commissioner Melcher: Were they the General Assembly too?

President Tornatta: They did all three.

Commissioner Melcher: Okay. I’m still trying to understand the difference between two and three. We’re paying one group to do part of what we’re asking the second group to do, or vice versa.

President Tornatta: Well, one is General Assembly, one is doing the executive.

Commissioner Melcher: Right, but then it also says for the General Assembly.

President Tornatta: But, for the same fee they will also do executive and General Assembly, knowing that they are not going to do the entire General Assembly. If that makes sense.

Commissioner Melcher: Well, would it be cheaper if they did both?

President Tornatta: It would not. It would not. All those fees have been negotiated to the bottom dollar.

Commissioner Melcher: So, we’re going to have duplication?

President Tornatta: If they produce, is that all that bad?

Commissioner Melcher: Well, I’m just wondering, if somebody calls me and says which one of these, which one are you going for? This one’s saying this and this is saying that, how do I answer that?

President Tornatta: Well, you have their phone number and you would just call them.

Commissioner Melcher: Okay.

President Tornatta: Any other questions?

Commissioner Winnecke: I have a question, I’m not sure quite how to phrase it. Again, based on your experience, because Steve and I are each new at this, I mean, the legislative session is, what can they do for us now? These fees, we’re paying, I think one of them, one of the contracts begins today, if executed, the other begins, began in January, but are the fees, do the fees reflect no work from January till the middle of February?

President Tornatta: No. In fact, they have, the one thing that we do see is they have stayed with the General Assembly since January. So, all of their knowledge of what’s going on and tracking bills and then able to bring those bills to Vanderburgh County’s interests, have been siphoned down to the point to where they can prepare it and lay those bills out, and how they affect us. That’s the work that they do. That started January 1 when the session, right before the session started.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Commissioner Winnecke, what the state lobbyists are essentially agreeing to do is to lobby the 2009 legislature for the Commissioners for the entire year at, in the case of Long and Mathies $1,000 a month, in the case of Phillips and Phillips at $500 a month, part of it for executive and the other part for General Assembly. Then, on the federal level, Barnes and Thornburg has done nothing at the federal level until February, so, they are charging us only February through December.

Commissioner Winnecke: Right.

President Tornatta: Still the same, they have, obviously, as we had a meeting with them, they have been working for us, as we speak, to make sure that they’re staying up if we need to go through with this.

Commissioner Winnecke: Okay.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: That’s not to say that they’re working for us under a contract before we voted on a contract.

President Tornatta: Right.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: But, they understand that they are going to lobby for the county for federal legislation for 2009, if the contract gets signed. If the contract is not signed, on any of these, they will not receive anything from the county, regardless of whether they’ve done anything or not, because they’re not authorized to do anything for a fee until the contracts are signed.

President Tornatta: Normally these contracts are signed either the first meeting in January, or a meeting before January, depending on what the administration situation is. As I’ve, we’ve seen in this document, if you’ve reviewed any of the prior meetings minutes from other administrations, we have almost a 50 percent savings on the lobbyists we have this year. And, we’re going to keep track of what work they do, and if we’re not satisfied with that, then I say we make a change in subsequent years. Any other questions. The first one would be Long and Mathies engagement letter lobbying before the Indiana General Assembly. Is there a motion? Okay, the second one, Commissioners, State General Assembly, State Executive lobbying agreement, Phillips and Phillips.

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll make the motion for that one.

President Tornatta: I’ll make a second. A motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: No.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 2-1. Commissioner Winnecke opposed.)

President Tornatta: The next one federal lobbying agreement with Barnes and Thornburg.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Excuse me, there are two agreements with Phillips and Phillips. Did you do both?

President Tornatta: Okay.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: One is for executive, and one is for legislative.

President Tornatta: Okay, Steve, if you amend your motion to, we can just do them both at one time.

Commissioner Melcher: Okay. I’ll amend the motion for both of them.

President Tornatta: That’s for State Executive and Legislative, and I’ll amend my second to accept that. Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: No.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 2-1. Commissioner Winnecke opposed.)

President Tornatta: The next one is for Barnes and Thornburg federal lobbying agreement.

Commissioner Melcher: Didn’t we already have them before? Didn’t we already have them last year?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

President Tornatta: Uh-huh.

Commissioner Melcher: Okay, I’ll make the motion.

President Tornatta: Second. A motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Alright, Commissioners, agreement with Busler Enterprises to use real estate for receipt of and mulching storm refuse. We’ve discussed all of those terms.

Commissioner Melcher: With that, I’ll make the motion.

President Tornatta: And I’ll second that. A motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Next, agreement with Allied Waste to pick up storm refuse.

Commissioner Melcher: So moved.

Commissioner Winnecke: This would be the--

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Pardon me, I’m sorry, what you did earlier was vote to accept this agreement with the amendment that I’m going to make to it. So, you’ve already voted on this agreement. I need to make the amendment, which you’ve approved and directed me to make, and you’re authorized to sign that tomorrow.

President Tornatta: Okay, so, actually we’ve covered that.

Commissioner Melcher: I just thought we voted to amend it, but maybe I was wrong.

President Tornatta: Okay, that’s fine. That’s fine. We voted.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: You voted on the whole package, as I understand it.

President Tornatta: We’re moving through, Sheriff, 2009 Community Corrections contract. Sheriff, any questions? Okay.

Commissioner Winnecke: So moved.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: The next action item, Sheriff, 2009 salary agreement.

Commissioner Winnecke: So moved.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Sheriff, cell phone agreement with Sprint/Nextel.

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll make the motion.

Commissioner Winnecke: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: The next one, EMA, 2007 Homeland Security Grant Program Sub-Grant Agreement for Statewide exercise program.

Commissioner Winnecke: I’ll move approval.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I just wanted to mention that Mr. Greer is here, should there be any questions.

Commissioner Winnecke: Oh, that’s right, and I’d asked that.

President Tornatta: Okay, do you need clarification? Sherman?

Commissioner Winnecke: I apologize.

Sherman Greer: Sherman Greer, director of Emergency Management for Evansville-Vanderburgh County.

Commissioner Winnecke: Sherman, I just had a question about sort of the mechanics of how this grant works.

Sherman Greer: Well, it’s more or less pushed by the State on the Statewide exercise. They choose the exercise that they will want for District Ten, which we’re part of, or we’re the fiscal body for. Whatever the exercise is, we’ll be given an assignment to do it. It won’t be like last year when we went to Muscatatuck and had to get manpower and everything else out to go. This is going to be more or less a tabletop or a functional type exercise that we would have here in District Ten.

Commissioner Winnecke: Thank you.

Sherman Greer: Anything else?

President Tornatta: It’s already voted on, Sherman.

President Tornatta: Alright, department head reports, County Attorney lease agreements with the Evansville-Vanderburgh Airport Authority District and the Vanderburgh County Drug Task Force.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: This is an agreement that was last entered into in 2003 for a three year period, then extended to December 31, 2008. The agreement provides office space for the Vanderburgh County Drug Task Force in the lower level of the airport, with a special entrance that they are allowed to use 24 hour, 24/7. The, this would then be a renewal agreement. It’s identical to the agreement that was agreed to in 2003 and extended through 2008, and the rent is the same, $12,100 per year, $1,008.33 per month. So, it’s entirely satisfactory for execution should the Commissioners decide to do so.

President Tornatta: This would require a motion.

Commissioner Melcher: Yeah, I’m okay, I’ll make the motion.

Commissioner Winnecke: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Number two, agreement with radio propagation consultant, Dan Dowdle.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Right, and this is an agreement on behalf of Emergency Management and the Indiana Homeland Security for radio propagation services. Please don’t ask me what that is, but Sherman Greer is here to answer that. The agreement provides that Mr. Dowdle, who according to Mr. Greer, is the only person, other than somebody in where? California?

Sherman Greer: Texas.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Texas, who has the capability to perform these propagation services. He’ll do it for a total fee of $9,000, which would be paid on the completion of the services, which will be completed no later than one year from the date of approval. We made some amendments to the agreement to get it to where it is now, and, as it is, we find it satisfactory for approval from a legal perspective.

Sherman Greer: The propagation study is, we received over 360 some thousand dollars for a, to update and enhance our amateur radio systems within District Ten. In fact, we received the bulk of the money for the whole state to do that, within our area, because of the likelihood of an earthquake type situation happening here. Lloyd, you’ll probably be more familiar with this, Dan is also, he works commercial to where he sets the, with the program that he has, a specialized program that he has, that he can look at the terrain and everything else so that our repeaters can be set up to where that we can tie all of these radios together. Just like it would be with the television station or anything else. It takes specialized people, or people with specialized training to be able to do that, and the software to be able to do that. So, that’s the reason that we sought him out. He came highly recommended. Like I said, the nearest person that we could get to even consider this was in Texas, and that would have cost us a lot more than $9,000 to have him be doing that for us up here.

Commissioner Winnecke: I move approval.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Thank you, Sherman.

Sherman Greer: Thank you.

Commissioner Winnecke: Thank you, Sherman.

President Tornatta: While Sherman’s here, not to get you too far away, $1.4 million is what we’ve realized so far, is that?

Sherman Greer: Well, we’ve had an adjustment to that today. It’s about 1.3.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Sherman Greer: The gentleman who was here from FEMA added one column twice, that knocked it down $100,000.

President Tornatta: That’s okay.

Sherman Greer: But, we’re still at 1.3 right now.

President Tornatta: And our threshold is 566?

Sherman Greer: Our threshold for Evansville is $563,000.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Sherman Greer: Is what our threshold is for–

President Tornatta: And for the state it’s eight million?

Sherman Greer: For the state it’s eight million dollars. Where we are within that I couldn’t give you an idea, as of right now. Evidently we’re close or they wouldn’t be sending FEMA out to do these assessments–

President Tornatta: Right.

Sherman Greer: –to the counties. The gentleman that’s here is doing Gibson County, Posey County, Warrick County and Spencer County and us. So, I think they were in Warrick County today and theirs is about 800,000, but they’re not complete yet. So, they’re going to be right at that million dollar mark also. There’s 16 counties in Southern Indiana that was affected by that ice storm. So, there again, we’re just going to see exactly how close we are to getting that. Some of the ones further east of us were hit harder than what we were. So, that’s where we are right now.

President Tornatta: Thank you.

Sherman Greer: Still crunching numbers.

President Tornatta: Still crunching. I hear our salt got in. Our salt counted toward our number.

Sherman Greer: As of right now it is, yes.

President Tornatta: This debris pick up would also count?

Sherman Greer: That would count also, yes.

President Tornatta: So, we appreciate it.

Sherman Greer: Thank you.

President Tornatta: Alright. Any new business?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: We have one item under County Attorney and that is the bids. I’ve opened the bid for the Mohr Road bridge number 1381 repair. There’s only one bid from Deig Brothers Construction, and the amount of the bid is $14,642.

President Tornatta: A motion to take this under advisement?

Commissioner Melcher: So moved.

Commissioner Winnecke: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Before I go too far, John, do you have a report for us?

John Stoll: I forgot to e-mail this to you earlier today. I just have one item, it’s a street acceptance in Section One of Wynnfield Subdivision. Wynnfield is located near the southeast corner of Green River and Kansas. The streets that would be accepted are Wynnfield Drive, that’s 1,032 feet; 405 feet of Ashworth Drive; 1,384 feet of Hartwell Drive; 131 feet of Preston Drive; and 198 feet of Tacoma Drive. It’s recommended that these streets be accepted for maintenance.

President Tornatta: Alright. A motion for acceptance.

Commissioner Winnecke: So moved.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: John, we, while you’re here, we were reviewing possibly the road hearings on March 4^th.

John Stoll: Okay.

President Tornatta: I can explain it, or you can explain it. What type of things do you look for in road hearings, and what are you bringing to the road hearings on a normal basis?

John Stoll: Typically we’ve brought in a Power Point presentation to show on-going major county projects, as well as road repairs that the county has completed, whether it’s been through contract repairs through my office, or whether it was in-house repairs done through Mike Duckworth’s department. Then we take input from the residents and have them tell us what roads they think need to be repaired, in addition to whatever we might have compiled throughout the course of the last year. I know we’ve been maintaining a list of concrete street repairs that weren’t funded last year that we’ve carried over to this year. I’m sure we won’t have all of the bad streets. So, we’ll welcome any input from any residents at the hearing, or if they call the office right now we could add it to the list. Unlike past years where we’ve just kept talking about projects like Green River that were upcoming, we can actually show pictures showing that the projects have made it to construction now. The same with Cross Pointe, the same with Baseline. So, in a nutshell, it’s just what we’re working on and what the residents want us to look at for the upcoming year.

President Tornatta: For the first year, what’s proposed is to do this on the Wednesday night of the 4^th, at 6:00, March 4^th, and to do this in a one time setting where we have one room, full of everybody explaining those projects, and then have break out rooms with the Commissioners in their district to be able to go over any of those plans, somebody from your office and somebody from the Highway Garage, whether it’s a foreman or the superintendent out there to be able to go over any of the issues that they have in their particular district and show what are the next road projects potentially set up for paving and take those paving reports, bring them back, review those with the Highway Garage, the County Engineer, and then bring them before this Board for approval. Any other questions?

Commissioner Winnecke: Do we need to vote to set that meeting?

President Tornatta: Yeah, we do. Yes, we do.

Commissioner Winnecke: Mr. President, I’ll move that we hold our county road hearing on Wednesday, March 4^th at –

President Tornatta: The Career and Technical Center.

Commissioner Winnecke: –the Career and Technical Center beginning at 6:00 p.m.

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll second it.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Thank you, John.

John Stoll: Thanks.

President Tornatta: Any other new business?

Commissioner Winnecke: Mr. President, I had, this is probably the place to discuss that. The President of the United States signed the stimulus package today. I don’t know if this is the meeting where we need to direct Mr. Stoll to present our list of potential projects? Because I haven’t heard what the deadline is, but I’m sure it’s a pretty short turnaround.

President Tornatta: That is actually part of what he’s working with, and will be working with Barnes and Thornburg to get them the list of the federal issues, and to have that signed. Because each of those have to be signed and individually sent to each Congressperson. So, we’ll send out three letters, he’ll present that to them, and, well, to us for signage, and then sent to each of those offices to their respective person that goes over any of those appropriations. So, that’s why we need Barnes and Thornburg on the federal side. On the state side we have to do the same thing and send it to, not only sign it, but get it out to our lobbyists so they can go out and try and get the same attachments done on the state side.

Commissioner Winnecke: And the turnaround time on that is?

President Tornatta: Well, I’ve been working with our engineer to try and consolidate some of those items so we can present them in an orderly fashion, as opposed to just throwing out projects. Since the two of you are newer to this body, you voted on it in maybe the Council, but you’ve not seen anything on the county side. So, to be able to qualify and quantify what we’re doing, with this moving target, on the federal side and the state side on the stimulus monies, we’ve been trying to get those on paper.

Commissioner Melcher: I assume this money has been all over the place. So, it’s for capital improvement, drainage, like Carpentier Creek and stuff like that?

President Tornatta: Well, we had a little conversation with Senator Bayh last night, and what he is gathering from the President is the approval, and from the administration, is the approvals have to be oriented around business theories. That is, how many jobs does this project bring? How does this project affect other business and other projects along the way? I think that that’s very important. With that thought in mind, that’s what they’re looking for, and that’s from the Chiefs of Staff and everybody.

Commissioner Melcher: Is it the same that it has to be shovel ready in 60 days?

President Tornatta: I would say that you have your best opportunities to get the money if it’s shovel ready.

Commissioner Melcher: Because we’re sitting on the MPO Board, and I’ve been on it since ‘92, and it’s hard to have things ready in 60 days.

President Tornatta: Yeah.

Commissioner Melcher: We’re not getting that much if you look at the figure. I forgot what it was, like six million or something maybe.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: That was the state, wasn’t it?

Commissioner Melcher: No, us.

President Tornatta: Well, there’s several things that are still up in the air.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: No, I meant that was our portion of the state money. We don’t know what the federal will be yet.

Commissioner Melcher: Right, we don’t know what the federal is. He went to state, so I stayed on state.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: I’m sorry.

Commissioner Melcher: Okay.

President Tornatta: But, I mean, the state could be as much as 15 million a year. So, I mean, there is, depending on how it comes down, I mean, we could see some different, and that’s why, more than ever, we need to make sure that we have people working for us in those areas for which we can’t work down here in Vanderburgh County.

Commissioner Winnecke: I understand that, I guess, but my point is I want to clarify what our direction–

President Tornatta: Right.

Commissioner Winnecke: –as in this body’s direction is to the County Engineer, who is really sort of the point person, I think, on what we present.

President Tornatta: Let John go over how we’ve done it in the past.

John Stoll: With the requirement that it sounds like the projects have to be shovel ready, and it also sounds like they are going to mandate that the projects be developed to be in compliance with federal aid procedures, it really restricts what you could do. The only two projects that we really have that meet those two criteria right now would be the Burdette-USI bike path, and the next section of University Parkway. Not knowing what the final regulations might be, some of that could change, but those are really the only two federal aid projects that, I mean, the only two projects that have been developed in federal aid procedures that will come ready for construction within that–

Commissioner Melcher: Aren’t these supposed to be projects too that haven’t had money already allocated?

John Stoll: The last thing I saw said that, you’re correct.

Commissioner Melcher: Right, so it would have to be new projects, ready to go, and that’s almost, that’s going to be tough.

John Stoll: One of the things I saw on, I think it was INDOT’s website, their definition of money allocated to the project was roughly seven weeks before the bid letting that they had actually set the money aside. So, even though we’ve proceeded with University Parkway, with the bike path on the assumption we’re getting federal money, that didn’t necessarily mean, at this point, that the money had been officially allocated and obligated. So, there might still be a window of opportunity for those two projects. But, I read those same things, and I was concerned because that shuts you out of about everything if it had to be a totally new project.

Commissioner Melcher: Yeah, and if it has to be driven that’s going to ruin the Carpentier Creek deal too, because that’s part city and a part county. That’s already been planned, it’s just a matter of waiting on dollars.

John Stoll: One other option that might be a possibility to make it retroactive to comply with federal regulations might be the First Avenue bridge rehab. In that situation we’re not buying any right-of-way, we’re not doing any work in the channel, so we wouldn’t be stuck with permitting problems, but we would still have to go back and deal with developing an environmental document retroactively, and then still getting it done in the timetables that whatever the stimulus money is going, whatever timetables the money has to be obligated in. I don’t know whether that can be pulled off or not. But, from the projects the county currently has going on, those were really the only three that I could come up with that we might have an opportunity on.

President Tornatta: But, we also have an opportunity to bring in business. If there’s a business that comes in and we could use those stimulus monies to get that business, depending on what it might be, into this community, we might have an opportunity to do that. That creates jobs. That also creates tax base for our county. So, I think there’s several options now with the loosening of the documents that are out there, and with the vote that’s already happened on the federal level, that we might be able to take advantage of. So, we’ll continue to work, keep in contact with Marissa and John Stoll on any ideas that we have so that we can get those put in a plan, and then we’ll kind of go through those in a meeting and be able to come up with that quantitatively.

Commissioner Winnecke: Thanks, John.

President Tornatta: Thank you.

John Stoll: Thanks.

President Tornatta: The next piece of business, just to kind of breeze over real quick. I delivered to the two of you the optional schedule, which would be, which would start actually to be used by our County Garage going eights in certain parts of the year, and going to tens in other parts of the year, mainly revolving around daylight savings time. Mike, if you could come in here and just give us the 10,000 feet view of what we did, and then we can review this until the next meeting, or the next couple of meetings.

Mike Duckworth: What I’ve provided for you is a schedule that includes from January 1^st until the Monday after Good Friday, that we would work eight hour shifts, 40 hours a week. From that point on we would pick up ten hour days, work Monday through Thursday, to capitalize on the daylight. Then that would go until the end of October, and the first Monday in November then we would pick up ten hour, I’m sorry, eight hour shifts again.

President Tornatta: This would not start, if we implemented this, this would not start until November. So, we would keep our tens–

Mike Duckworth: Yes, we’re currently on ten hour shifts now, and then in November we would shift to eight hour shifts.

President Tornatta: Then we would pick back up in April?

Mike Duckworth: Yes.

President Tornatta: We had a little discrepancy in the timing. There was a good remedy for that, and if you would kind of go over what was established.

Mike Duckworth: I believe there’s about 16 hours and occasionally we have time periods when people in the Civic Center work, or are let off of work, and our people have to work. So, there’s some flexibility there to move some hours, but most of the 16 hours would be taken up by individual training that we provide quarterly to our employees, where they would take work sessions home and work on them, and then turn them in, and then we would grade them and make sure that they’re compliant.

President Tornatta: And we’ve talked with Matt Arvay and there is potential that we can have that all drawn up on computers. We’re potentially going to get six computers out to the Highway Garage.

Mike Duckworth: Yes, yes.

President Tornatta: They could also work at home, if we get this worked out right.

Mike Duckworth: Sure.

President Tornatta: That would allow them to have training–

Mike Duckworth: It equalizes.

President Tornatta: –and, obviously, with any amount of training it would definitely help on any potential rates and how we are looked at in the community.

Mike Duckworth: Well, and we document that in case there is an accident or something. It gives the county extra protection, I think, that they have been trained in those practices.

President Tornatta: Any other questions on that? Don’t need a vote, we’re just reviewing.

Commissioner Melcher: But, we’re basically okay with the bargaining unit and everybody on this?

Mike Duckworth: Yes, sir.

Commissioner Melcher: This is what most counties are going to, to save money? It seems to work better during the daylight savings time?

Mike Duckworth: I don’t have the exact figures, but I believe fuel wise, utility wise and time on task we’ve seen a big improvement in our, improvement in the amount of work orders that we’re able to do during ten hour shifts.

Commissioner Melcher: Okay.

President Tornatta: Alright.

Mike Duckworth: Thank you.

President Tornatta: Thank you. One last piece of new business. Starting last week, Vanderburgh County Commissioners are on Facebook. So, it allows us to use that as a tool to get out any information that we need. Agendas, if you sign up and make us a friend on Facebook, you can collect our agendas, you can possibly pick up any of the, any information that the County Commission has issued. So, be a friend of the Vanderburgh County Commissioners.

President Tornatta: Any old business?

President Tornatta: Public comment?

Commissioner Winnecke: There is a gentleman in the audience.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Les Shively: Mr. President?

President Tornatta: Yeah.

Les Shively: I hate to disrupt your agenda. I’m supposed to be live on the air in 15 minutes. If there’s any way that you could go slightly out of order and take up the Porterfield matter, unless there’s a problem.

Commissioner Melcher: Yeah, we can do that.

President Tornatta: Alright. If it’s okay with the Board, we will move to item number 11, rezonings. Final reading of VC-2-2009, petitioner, Porterfield Development LLC, address 8220 Telephone Road, request change from Ag to R-4. Janet, did I ruin your game?

Janet Greenwell: That’s okay.

Les Shively: She’s quick on her hands there.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Les Shively: Mr. President–

President Tornatta: Yes.

Les Shively: –and members of the Commission, briefly, this is a request for an R-3 rezoning. This property is adjacent to Centerra Subdivision, which my client also rezoned and platted as a residential subdivision. This will be a multi-family area that will serve as a buffer between this property, single family, and the E & B Paving property to the east in Warrick County. It received a unanimous vote with one abstention in the Plan Commission. We would ask for approval.

President Tornatta: Okay, Janet?

Janet Greenwell: Just one little correction. It was a request to R-4.

Les Shively: I’m sorry, R-4.

Janet Greenwell: As an extension.

President Tornatta: Ag to R-4?

Janet Greenwell: Ag to R-4.

President Tornatta: Okay, alright. Any remonstrators? Anything else to say, Les?

Les Shively: No, sir.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Commissioner Melcher: I move to approve it.

Commissioner Winnecke: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Discussion? Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

Les Shively: Thanks.

President Tornatta: I want to make sure you got your hour in. See ya.

Les Shively: Thank you.

President Tornatta: Alright, we’re going to continue with the final reading of VC-3-2009, petitioner, Ramsey Development Corporation of Indiana, address, 8530 Middle Mt. Vernon Road, request change from R-1 to R-4 with use and development commitment. Janet?

Janet Greenwell: Good evening, Janet Greenwell with the Area Plan Commission. I apologize, my apologies for getting the packets to you so late. The little item that you took care of on the first of your agenda should fix that problem in the future.

President Tornatta: Okay, super.

Commissioner Melcher: That’s the reason why we did that.

Janet Greenwell: Yes, and we thank you for it. Ramsey Development is requesting to rezone their acreage at the northern part of the site at 8530 Middle Mt. Vernon. The Plan Commission voted to recommend it with nine affirmative votes and one abstention. I will say that there was a lot of discussion about the traffic and the infrastructure improvements, and some commitments that West Side Improvement would like to see made with the neighbors in Cherry Hill Subdivision. One thing unique about this petition is that it will also require approval by the Board of Zoning Appeals. Under state statute the Board of Zoning Appeals has the ability to put conditions and restrictions on their approval of special uses and variances. There’s already a special use and a variance filed, and it will go before our board after this, if this is approved as a rezoning. So, it was determined not to send them back for a use commitment, that we would defer to our Board of Zoning Appeals to ensure that, and I’m sure Mr. Padget will be there, that the neighbors are well protected with any commitments on the development of the, the senior development there. I will say, for the record, that the other petition, the C-1 that Ramsey Development had requested, the VC-4-2009, was continued at the request of the petitioner and the recommendation of the Plan Commission for a period of up to a year so that they can determine a little better, have a little better idea and tie down the use of it before they come and ask for a rezoning.

President Tornatta: Okay. Any remonstrators?

Fred Padget: Shouldn’t the petitioner go first?

President Tornatta: I didn’t see any. I’m sorry. Is the petitioner out there? Oh, I’m sorry. Okay, I didn’t see anybody out there. Come on up if you need to. Thanks, Fred. Do you want to come up here and run this meeting? How are you?

Tim Huber: I’m good. My name is Tim Huber, and I’m with Ramsey Development Corp.--

President Tornatta: Okay.

Tim Huber: –Corporation, out of Tell City, Indiana.

President Tornatta: Alright.

Tim Huber: We’ve done 33 similar projects in Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky since 1999. We will buy the property, build the building, and lease it to Trilogy Health Services out of Louisville, Kentucky. Twenty six of our 33 projects are with Trilogy. They’ve already approved the site, and we’re anxious to get it rezoned and get started on construction.

President Tornatta: Anything else? Any questions of the Board? Thank you very much. Fred?

Fred Padget: Mr. President, Commissioners, I’m Fred Padget with the Westside Improvement Association. The reason I wanted to come down and talk with you a little bit tonight, and Janet mentioned the traffic concerns. We met and talked with each of you Commissioners about it in other sessions. As the University Parkway develops, and it will, traffic is going to become a considerable concern for us and for, I think, you also. Once it gets connected to Diamond, which could happen in the next couple years, or maybe three years, that’s going to change traffic patterns and put even more traffic onto the Parkway. So, we’re very concerned about getting a traffic study done sometime in the reasonable and near future. I know that you’ve, I think, talked with INDOT and others in trying to get some traffic information. We just want to reinforce the need for that, and if there’s anything we can help to do to facilitate it, we would be glad to do that. We’re very concerned about traffic out there. The County Engineer and the Director of the MPO and the staff report for this petition also talked about a traffic study and the need for it. The intersection at the Lloyd and the Parkway, of course, originally the county had paid for that, we don’t want to see that happen again. We think the state should pick that up, since it’s a state route, and we don’t think the TIF money should be used for the intersection there. That should be used for other infrastructure needs along the Parkway.

President Tornatta: You don’t expect the state to pick up anything on the Parkway, right?

Fred Padget: On the intersection.

President Tornatta: Just the intersection, okay.

Fred Padget: The Parkway, of course, that’s not a state road.

President Tornatta: Yet.

Fred Padget: Well, yet, but we feel that any TIF money that is accumulated ought to go towards infrastructure along the Parkway, as opposed to the intersection.

President Tornatta: Right.

Fred Padget: The, it was mentioned that we did want some stronger use and development commitments, particularly in regards to the lighting, noise, shielding the trash receptacles, delivery times and those kinds of things. The petitioners mentioned at the Area Plan Commission meeting that Trilogy pretty much has these outlined and required in the contracts that they have with Trilogy, and we have no reason to disagree with that. So, I think that that satisfies our concern. We would have liked to have had that put in a use and development commitment, but at this point I think we’re satisfied with that. Ramsey has a good reputation, and Trilogy also, as far as I can determine. The privacy fence that we wanted to protect the neighbors along Cherry Hill Drive, the petitioner has said that they will ask for that at the BZA, or it will be built into their request from the Board of Zoning Appeals. Overall this is a really good project. We support it. It’s a good land use for that particular property. It’s a low traffic impact, as best we can determine. Again, we think the petitioner and Trilogy both have good reputations, and the West Side Improvement does support this project. Thank you. If there’s any questions, I’ll gladly try to answer them.

President Tornatta: Questions of the Board?

Commissioner Melcher: No. Thanks, Fred.

Fred Padget: Thank you.

President Tornatta: Thank you, Fred. Any other remonstrators to the project?

Commissioner Melcher: I’ll move for do pass.

Commissioner Winnecke: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any discussion? Anything else from the petitioner? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Alright, we’re going to move, thank you, we’re going to move back to public comment. Fred? You’ve been sitting so nicely back there.

Fred Bumb: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and the rest of the Commissioners. I am Frederick Bumb. This is my wife, Janet. We are here concerning the proposed wetland along the new University Parkway. The land of what’s involved, at one time I belonged, I had the ownership of that with my brother-in-law, and it so happened that he got this share of the land that they are debating about getting the wetland in here. We have always been a real supporter of the Soil and Water Conservation and everything, and during the period of this joint ownership, we installed a drainage tile and also a waterway. Both of these acreages were involved in it. My land drains through the other part of it. This, now the wetland would interrupt the drainage on my crop land. So, it’s real difficult for me to understand why they would choose some ground like that, a high producing soil as that is, for this mitigation. Maybe somebody here could tell me a little bit about what procedure they did in acquiring this and why? Do we have any comments on this, Mr. Chairman?

President Tornatta: Fred, I would have to defer, and I would hope that our County Engineer would have a better answer.

Fred Bumb: I’m sorry. I had too much tractor driving. Would you speak a little louder?

President Tornatta: No, I said, let’s see what our County Engineer has to say on this particular item.

Commissioner Melcher: He’s right behind you.

Fred Bumb: Okay.

John Stoll: I spoke to Mr. Bumb when he first made us aware of this a couple of weeks ago. The reason the land was selected, the sellers were willing to sell the property and the county had to have a mitigation site to mitigate the impacts of the University Parkway. So, since they were a willing seller, the county acquired that property with the intention of putting the wetland site there. As far as the field tiles and the drainage, here again, we were just made aware of that. I’ve talked to Bernardin Lochmueller, they know they have to accommodate those field tiles either with an easement through the mitigation site or the field tiles would somehow have to be re-routed to where they don’t go through it, maybe around it, but no final determination has been made as of yet. The consultant is aware of the situation, and they’ll have to deal with it somehow.

Fred Bumb: I guess, the question comes to my mind about wetland. I don’t know how many of you folks have had the experience with wetland. Me being a farmer, I have worked around wetlands and I tell ya, I just can’t quite see a wetland being developed in this area. I don’t know, how many, do you know this area that I’m speaking of? It’s the northern part of this Parkway. The community there is, I just don’t feel like it’s necessary to have a wetland there.

President Tornatta: Well, it’s part of the mitigation process that, I think, the Army Corp of Engineers makes us go through. That is that for every bit of land that we displace that’s wetlands, we have to create wetlands. So, unfortunately, that’s the Army Corp of Engineers doing it, not us. Does that, and the same for trees, I mean, if, mitigation of trees. If we displace trees, we have to plant trees to make sure that there’s equal and proportionate in the environmental cycle.

Fred Bumb: Well, I think I understand wetland pretty well, due to the fact that I’ve worked with the Corp on wetland projects.

President Tornatta: Right.

Fred Bumb: I agree with you, we need some wetlands, but not in an area like that. I just don’t think so. I mean, because, maybe some of you, by now, are confronted with deer, and we’ve got a Parkway there, and they’re going to be flying across that Parkway like everything, those deer are. There’s some little wooded area on the east side and we’re on the westside, I just don’t think there’s been enough consideration on the community and me as an individual. I didn’t know anything about this until I got this notice, see.

President Tornatta: John, do you know how they position the wetland site, or how they chose where it was going to be mitigated?

Fred Bumb: I have a copy of the site and everything.

President Tornatta: I understand. I just want to know how it was chosen, Fred.

Fred Bumb: Okay, I’m sorry.

John Stoll: The preference is to get the mitigation site in the same watershed that’s being affected by the construction. So, that says that we want it in the Little Creek watershed right off the bat. Here again, it was immediately adjacent to the project, so it’s convenient as far as access for the contractors. Likewise, that will help the county’s price to construct the wetland. So, if it was not contiguous to the road site then we would have higher costs to get the mitigation site constructed. So, factors like that play into the selection of the site. We, I’ve had numerous discussions with some of the attorneys in Ted’s office regarding whether or not you can actually condemn a mitigation site, because there are multiple sites that you could use, it’s just whether or not you would win that in court. We’ve gone round and round with that. In this case, condemnation wasn’t an option, the seller was willing, so that made it a viable site as well.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Fred Bumb: My thought is, that I should go back, I don’t know if I dare say it or not, but see the highway is taking 11 acres of our property, and they split it up. We got some landlocked ground on the one side. I never heard anything about landlock, about wetland that they were buying up something like that for wetland. It kind of bothers me, sir. It really does. We’ve got, right have we got, we’re in agreement with the property and everything, Mr. (Inaudible), he is with the attorney on it, and it’s all–

President Tornatta: Are you saying that piece that we bought, that little special piece that was landlocked–

Fred Bumb: Yes.

President Tornatta: You thought that you should have been compensated for wetlands with that piece?

Fred Bumb: Well, I didn’t know.

President Tornatta: Well, I mean–

Fred Bumb: I mean, since this has developed, sir, I didn’t know that you were buying the ground for wetland. Why didn’t you make the mention of this three acres on the one side that we can’t get to at all?

President Tornatta: Fred, let John say something here. Maybe he can–

John Stoll: It was my understanding the consultants contacted Mr. Bumb and he wasn’t willing to sell it for the mitigation site.

Fred Bumb: Well, I don’t think we should go into that detail, due to the fact that what we tried to negotiate was for the outlet that I wanted, an easement to go to a field and you refused me on that.

President Tornatta: Right, because there wasn’t an easement at the time.

Fred Bumb: Now, tell me how you’re going to have a wetland and you won’t have any easement, the highway won’t have any easement to it? It’s bartered by some individual. I don’t understand wetland and how in an area like that will be operated. Alright, let’s say that this wetland needed some drainage, like where our tile goes across this property. Well, if this tile, will I have a right to come in there and repair it?

President Tornatta: On the wetland?

Fred Bumb: It just really bothers me.

President Tornatta: Right. I mean–

Fred Bumb: This is not my piece of cake coming here and talking to you folks.

President Tornatta: Right.

Fred Bumb: But, I’ve farmed that, this is from my homestead ground–

President Tornatta: Right.

Fred Bumb: –and they’ve gone through it and taken 11 acres, and I thought there should be some consideration on something like this. Then, here the next thing is we’re going to be concerned with wetland on the south side of us. Does it make sense? I want to know how many of you folks wouldn’t be upset.

President Tornatta: Well, Fred, this is something new to me tonight in your public comment. So, we can address any of those issues and get you a statement out on to maybe any of your concerns. To be able to establish every concern that you have right now is probably outside of my scope. But, we have people on staff that can do that.

Fred Bumb: That’s why I’m here. When I got this notice about the wetland, I contacted the man in Indianapolis, and he said, well, he didn’t have anything to do with acquiring the land. Now, I don’t know, from what I gather the county is the owner of the ground, right?

President Tornatta: Right.

Fred Bumb: Okay, okay. So, that’s why I’m appealing to you as a Commissioner to do something, to give me some guidance.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Fred Bumb: I don’t think I should–

President Tornatta: Well, I can’t do that right, at this–

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Yeah, Mr. Bumb, I think what Commissioner Tornatta is suggesting is we thank you for bringing this information to us, we will review it and have appropriate staff for the county review it and then we will be prepared to respond, but we’re not prepared to respond tonight.

Fred Bumb: Well, I appreciate that, but it’s been bothering me.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Fred Bumb: Janet, maybe my wife’s got another thing that maybe we, we discussed it, she’s half owner of the property. Did you have anything, Janet?

Janet Bumb: I think not.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Fred Bumb: We just can’t understand why they would put wetland next to us on property that is good, tillable farm ground. It’s high producing ground.

President Tornatta: Right.

Fred Bumb: I mean, you’re going to put trees and shrubbery and wet holes in it. I would like for you to see what’s proposed.

President Tornatta: Okay.

Fred Bumb: It disturbs me.

President Tornatta: Alright.

Fred Bumb: Thank you for your consideration.

President Tornatta: Okay. Thanks, Fred. Okay, any other public comment? Alright.

President Tornatta: To our consent agenda.

Commissioner Winnecke: Mr. President, if you would, I would move that we, I would like for the employment changes to be voted on separately from the rest of the consent agenda items.

President Tornatta: Alright, and I will accept that. For sake of time, I would just like to submit all the consent agenda items into the record and leave out the employment changes. If I could have that in the form of a motion.

Commissioner Winnecke: So moved.

Commissioner Melcher: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any questions? Roll call vote, please.

Madelyn Grayson: There is just one amendment. There are six Health Department travel requests, and it’s listed as five. So, if we can just make that amendment.

President Tornatta: Can we encompass that in the motion? Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: Alright, employment changes.

Commissioner Winnecke: Mr. President, I noticed that we had a pink slip in the file for Mr. Duckworth’s position. I would like to discuss that tonight and its status.

President Tornatta: Okay. Mr. Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Well, I think, you know, my understanding is that we were looking at some dates and trying to find a date that would be meaningful for everybody, because the economy is tough and times are tough. I talked to a bunch of people over this and I think, I’ve talked to Mike over it a couple of times, and it’s my understanding that, you know, we didn’t replace him in January or February, but or maybe today, per the conversation I had with another gentleman and we’re looking at maybe the end of March? But, we need to set a date.

Commissioner Winnecke: Well, the pink slip says that Mr. Duckworth resigned effective 2/27.

Commissioner Melcher: I don’t think he’s resigned.

Commissioner Winnecke: I know I’ve spoken to him and that is correct, he has not resigned. I don’t know how it was put forth like this. You know, if it’s the intent of this Board to make a personnel move of this magnitude, I would hope that it would not be done in this way. So, I don’t know frankly what the intent is. If there is a move to dismiss Mr. Duckworth, I would certainly oppose it. Even Commissioner Tornatta has been on the record and in the media saying that he’s done a great job out there. So, personally I don’t know what’s going on.

President Tornatta: Well, Mr. Duckworth and I have had several communications on how this was going to be administered. When the change of administration was done in 2004 there was an immediate firing of the individual out there. We thought that there was, that there were issues revolving around campaigning and how that campaigning was done on county time. But, we also thought that in an act of genuine gratitude for the job that Mr. Duckworth had done, that we would allow him to try and find alternate employment. At that time it was discussed the dates upon when that employment would potentially be rendered, and it was an understanding that, you know, we are not anybody who throws a baby out with the bath water, but we are people who understand that these are tough economic times and we want to come across as being genuine. We feel Mike has done a yeoman’s job in what we’ve asked him to do, and that’s why we pay him the salary that we do. It has also extended past the time for which we said, so that’s, going upon what we agreed with Mr. Duckworth, we put in a pink slip and that was not to be, as I talked to him we were not going to, even though he said we had worked out that he was going to have a resignation letter to us, he said that was not going to happen, and at that point then I understood that we would have to discuss how we were going to go from there. The intent was to have this done by the end of this month. Doing it by the end of this month would leave a pink slip today only, and that was conveyed, not only to me, but to the Auditor, to the County Council and to our staff, and to Mike’s staff that it would be a termination situation. How it got in as a resignation is maybe a clerical error. But, be that as it may, if it is the wish of this Board to extend that date to another date, then we just need to have that for the pink slip.

Commissioner Winnecke: So, did you just say that the County Council is aware that his last day, according to this paper, is 2/27?

President Tornatta: The County Council, Sarah Nunn was made aware that we were going to have a change, and we did clarify with them how that change would process.

Commissioner Winnecke: Okay, so–

President Tornatta: Then that was conveyed to our staff and to Mike’s staff.

Commissioner Winnecke: If I may, and I don’t mean anything by this other than just the matter of fact status of the question, in the last five minutes you said he’s done a yeoman’s job, in the media you said he had done a great job, but in the same conversation you want to dismiss him. I’m having trouble reconciling why we want to dismiss him.

President Tornatta: Well, I mean, we have certain directions that we would like to go with an administration. And if Mike is not on with all of our directions, then that does put us in a little bit of wedge.

Commissioner Winnecke: And, so–

President Tornatta: We have every right in an administration to hire or fire anybody that we feel that we want to have or not have in our administration in those positions.

Commissioner Winnecke: And, likewise we have the opportunity to discuss in an open meeting the reasons for that.

President Tornatta: Absolutely.

Commissioner Winnecke: I guess, I’m curious to know what direction of the administration do you wish to go that Mr. Duckworth has indicated to you that he’s not on board with?

President Tornatta: Well, there’s been several things in the past that we have not seen eye to eye on. The one thing that we want to have is somebody on board that we see eye to eye with in different areas. Also, there have been some, you know, I try and protect everybody’s integrity and what they do and what they don’t do. In certain times, in crunch times, did Mike do things that I thought was not appropriate, that’s a problem for me. You know, I don’t, I could go into it, I don’t think it’s appropriate to go into those typical, or those different issues, and would not want to hurt any opportunities that Mike would have past this point.

Commissioner Winnecke: Yet, you’re asking this body, essentially tonight, to decide his fate, but we’re not privy to the information that you obviously have as to what those shortcomings are?

President Tornatta: That’s correct.

Commissioner Winnecke: Okay. You know, I guess, I would like to know more about what, you know, you said several times you’re not seeing eye to eye, specifically what issues have you not seen eye to eye on?

President Tornatta: I didn’t think that, at the time, and the time now, I mean, we have a training center out there that was $50,000, $100,000, I mean, you know, trying to quantify what that was for what it’s needed for out there. I voted no against that. It was, it continued to move down the path of getting that training center, at a time when we could use the money elsewhere.

Commissioner Winnecke: But, he was, at the time, if I remember correctly, following the direction of the majority Commissioners.

President Tornatta: But, that’s not seeing eye to eye with me. Right now we’re the majority.

Commissioner Winnecke: So, for the purpose, so the training room is the major reason you can cite for your desire to replace him?

President Tornatta: The training room is one example.

Commissioner Winnecke: Okay. So, the intent of this pink slip is what? To dismiss him on 2/27 or 2/28?

Commissioner Melcher: I think it’s going to be 3/27.

Commissioner Winnecke: I would move that we remove the pink slip until such time as that can be clarified, for all concerned, including Mr. Duckworth.

President Tornatta: I would agree on 3/27.

Commissioner Melcher: I would like the attorney to say something here. Usually, in the past when there’s, like we get a new Mayor, new Commissioners, new Governor, new everything, don’t the department heads normally change over in a timely fashion?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: The courts in Indiana have pretty uniformly held that on changes in administration persons who are in a policy making position, or a position of confidentiality can be replaced without breaching the law regarding not discharging employees for political reasons. Other persons who aren’t in a position of confidentiality or in a policy making position cannot. I have discussed this with David Miller of our office and we actually referred back to some research that I did four years ago relative to this same question, and at that time I presented to the Commissioners a list of employees of the county who we believed were in a policy making position or a position of confidentiality, and one of those positions was the Superintendent of County Highways. So, that was my opinion four years ago, and that is my opinion today. That is not to say that an administration must terminate a person in that position, but it’s to say that they may.

President Tornatta: Right.

Commissioner Melcher: Okay, so what we’re saying, I guess, basically is that when this administration came on we kept the Engineer, we kept a few others, we basically kept the same attorney firm, we pretty much did everything, we only had one agenda and that was to replace probably one person, and because the times are tough and everything, you know, we’ve allowed some time. I do think it’s time to set a date, and I think in fairness and everything, that’s why when I was talking to some people today, pretty much the 27^th of March was what pretty much people were agreeing with. So, I would feel comfortable on the 27^th of March. That way, Mike, in fairness to him he knows what it is. It’s not something that’s going to be going back and forth. I’d never seen the pink slip. I never would have accepted, I knew it wasn’t a resignation, and that should not be on there. So, we’re just following the law of the land per the statute of Indiana, right?

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: Yes, you may do that. It’s not required that there be a pink slip sitting there. That’s county policy and that’s the way we handle this. The Commissioners can vote tonight, if they wish, on a termination date for this particular employee.

Commissioner Melcher: Okay, then I’ll make the motion to make it the 27^th of March, 2009 will be his last day.

President Tornatta: And I’ll second. A motion and a second. Any other discussion? Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: No.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 2-1. Commissioner Winnecke opposed.)

Madelyn Grayson: Do we still need to vote on the other employment changes? Or did you do that with the consent items?

President Tornatta: No.

Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.: No, they haven’t done that.

President Tornatta: We would need to vote on the other employment changes. A motion to accept the other employment changes. I need a motion.

Commissioner Melcher: So moved.

Commissioner Winnecke: Second.

President Tornatta: A motion and a second. Any discussion? Roll call vote.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Winnecke?

Commissioner Winnecke: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: Commissioner Melcher?

Commissioner Melcher: Yes.

Madelyn Grayson: President Tornatta?

President Tornatta: Yes.

(Motion approved 3-0)

President Tornatta: If we can, if you don’t mind coming up here and saying who you are and who you’re shadowing with.

Chris Casson: I’m Chris Casson and I’m shadowing Mr. Winnecke.

President Tornatta: Okay, where are you from?

Chris Casson: Central High School.

President Tornatta: Central High School. Okay, welcome. Go ahead.

Carolyn Jones: I’m Carolyn Jones, and I’m shadowing Mr. Melcher.

President Tornatta: Alright, thank you, Carolyn. Where are you from?

Carolyn Jones: Day School.

President Tornatta: Day School, okay.

Commissioner Winnecke: There’s a big crowd in the audience too.

President Tornatta: Alright, a crowd of Day School students out there? Where are we from?

Unidentified: USI.

President Tornatta: USI, okay. There you go. Alright. Business? Are we done? Motion to adjourn?

Commissioner Melcher: So moved.

Commissioner Winnecke: Second.

(The meeting was adjourned at 6:55 p.m.)

CONSENT ITEMS:

Commissioners:

Approval of the February 3, 2009 Commission Meeting Minutes.

Approval of the January 20, 2009 Rezoning Meeting Minutes.

Pigeon Township Trustee 2009 Poor Relief Standards.

Local Emergency Proclamation: January 28, 2009 (Ice Storm).

Employment Changes:

County Highway (1)*                Co-Op Extension (2)                 County Clerk (2)

Sheriff’s Office (5)                    VCCC (2)                                  Prosecutor (3)

County Assessor (1)                 Circuit Court (1)                        Superior Court (1)

Public Defender (1)

*To be revised and submitted as consent item on 3/3/2009.

Travel Requests:

Health Department (6)              DADS (3)

Burdette Park: Yearly Financial Comparison 2008-2009.

Surplus Requests:

Coroner: Various items.

Treasurer: Various items.

Superior Court: (2) chairs.

Health Department: Various items.

Prosecutor: Various items.

Auditor:

Barrett Law Lien Release: Mill Terrace Barrett Law Project.

February 2009 A/P Vouchers.

County Engineer: Pay Request No. 72: Green River-Burkhardt TIF Projects.

Treasurer: Year-to-Date Report: January 31, 2009.

Department Head Reports:

Burdette Park                           County Engineer                       County Highway

Ozone Officer

Those in Attendance:

Troy Tornatta                            Stephen Melcher                      Lloyd Winnecke

Bill Fluty                                    Ted C. Ziemer, Jr.          Madelyn Grayson

Amy Rich                                  Alissa Powers                           Paula Adams

Todd Chamberlain                    Mike Duckworth                        Steve Craig

Sherman Greer                         John Stoll                                  Les Shively

Tim Huber                                 Fred Padget                              Fred Bumb

Janet Bumb                              Chris Casson                            Carolyn Jones

Others Unidentified                   Members of Media

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS

Troy Tornatta, President

Stephen Melcher, Vice President

Lloyd Winnecke, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)

VANDERBURGH COUNTY

BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS

Troy Tornatta, President

Stephen Melcher, Vice President

Lloyd Winnecke, Member

(Recorded and transcribed by Madelyn Grayson.)